Base GT Goku > SSJ3 Z Goku - but let's say they're equal for the sake of keeping calculations simple.
Base GT Goku = 1% Beerus
SSJ GT Goku = 50% Beerus
SSJ2 GT Goku = 100% Beerus
SSJ3 GT Goku = 4 times Beerus
SSJ4 GT Goku = 40 times Beerus
Considering they're both equal in power, who'd win in a fight? Beerus likely has much more battle experience, but Goku has unique techniques such as Solar Flare and Instant Transmission.
(Note: This isn't a fight about what Dragon Ball version is better nor if you think one fighter is going to win simply because you like him more - I personally don't like GT nearly as much as I like Super but that won't affect this battle and neither should your predilections).
Base GT Goku > SSJ3 Z Goku - but let's say they're equal for the sake of keeping calculations simple.
Base GT Goku = 1% Beerus
SSJ GT Goku = 50% Beerus
SSJ2 GT Goku = 100% Beerus
SSJ3 GT Goku = 4 times Beerus
SSJ4 GT Goku = 40 times Beerus
(Note: This isn't a fight about what Dragon Ball version is better nor if you think one fighter is going to win simply because you like him more - I personally don't like GT nearly as much as I like Super but that won't affect this battle and neither should your predilections).
mismatch if you can prove goku is universal then he wins or else not i mean seriously
He, in his base form, destroyed a dimension with ease. A dimension. And unlike Super Goku, he actually did it - he wasn't stated to be able to do it without ever doing anything, no; he actually did it.
Last but not least, Goku and Beerus' power combined is what what stated (not even shown) to be able to destroy the universe, so he isn't a universal being alone, neither by statements nor feats.
He, in his base form, destroyed a dimension with ease. And unlike Super Goku, he actually did it - he wasn't stated to be able to do it without ever doing anything, no; he actually did it.
dimension.
Last but not least, Goku and Beerus' power combined is what what stated (not even shown) to be able to destroy the universe, so he isn't a universal being alone, neither by statements nor feats.
prove how huge the dimension was i would assume minimum it would be planetary
@thedarkpaladin can you get here and debate with him this is a mismatch i think
He, in his base form, destroyed a dimension with ease. And unlike Super Goku, he actually did it - he wasn't stated to be able to do it without ever doing anything, no; he actually did it.
dimension.
Last but not least, Goku and Beerus' power combined is what what stated (not even shown) to be able to destroy the universe, so he isn't a universal being alone, neither by statements nor feats.
prove how huge the dimension was i would assume minimum it would be planetary
@thedarkpaladin can you get here and debate with him this is a mismatch i think
There is nothing to debate. Nobody who isn't a GT fanboy would actually think Goku stands a chance here. Breaking through dimensions is something Buu saga characters can do by screaming and SSJ 4 Goku got cut by glass lol.
He, in his base form, destroyed a dimension with ease. And unlike Super Goku, he actually did it - he wasn't stated to be able to do it without ever doing anything, no; he actually did it.
dimension.
Last but not least, Goku and Beerus' power combined is what what stated (not even shown) to be able to destroy the universe, so he isn't a universal being alone, neither by statements nor feats.
prove how huge the dimension was i would assume minimum it would be planetary
@thedarkpaladin can you get here and debate with him this is a mismatch i think
There is nothing to debate. Nobody who isn't a GT fanboy would actually think Goku stands a chance here. Breaking through dimensions is something Buu saga characters can do by screaming and SSJ 4 Goku got cut by glass lol.
GG
but he didn't really break it he actually blew it up
How? Are the calculations wrong? Base Kid Goku without a tail (which is GT is stated to increase Power Levels) was above (or for argument's sake, at) the same level as EoZ SSj3 Goku even before he fought Baby, let alone by EoGT, and by EoGT I mean the GT series since most people don't even factor in AHL (I find it impossible to believe anyone can think Goku wouldn't make significant gains in 100 years but there's no "proof"). Is this wrong, and if so, why?
@precrisisbardock: True - he's much more experienced than he was in Z now, so even if Beerus has a power level equal to his as a SSJ2, he should be able to win this.
@precrisisbardock: True - he's much more experienced than he was in Z now, so even if Beerus has a power level equal to his as a SSJ2, he should be able to win this.
@thedarkpaladin: Please refrain from calling other people "fanboys" and giving sarcastic names. I know you do that in pretty much every thread on Comicvine, but this isn't the place to do it.
To refute you: Gotenks and Super Buu didn't destroy a single dimension - they traveled through them. As for SSJ4 Goku being cut by glass; hello, mister Super Saiyan "God," how is the "common raygun" (according to Frieza) doing?
Stop being biased. In your predilection itself, it was mentioned that anyone could be hurt at any time and by anything if they kept their guards down.
Base GT Goku > SSJ3 Z Goku - but let's say they're equal for the sake of keeping calculations simple.
Base GT Goku = 1% Beerus
SSJ GT Goku = 50% Beerus
SSJ2 GT Goku = 100% Beerus
SSJ3 GT Goku = 4 times Beerus
SSJ4 GT Goku = 40 times Beerus
Considering they're both equal in power, who'd win in a fight? Beerus likely has much more battle experience, but Goku
has unique techniques such as Solar Flare and Instant Transmission.
(Note: This isn't a fight about what Dragon Ball version is better nor if you think one fighter is going to win simply because you like him more - I personally don't like GT nearly as much as I like Super but that won't affect this battle and neither should your predilections).
wtf? That's the worst scaling i have seen in so many ways. Let's ignore Beerus feats as well since they SMASH GTverse.
Rage Vegeta = 1 hit by 10% Beerus yet you say he = 10% Beerus? If Superman 1 hits me then I = Superman?
EoZ Goku = weaker then DBS SSJ3 Goku that was casually GENTLE TOUCH KOED by 1% Beerus. 1% Beerus CASUALLY TOUCHES base GT GOKU into a KO he might kill him considering he isn't as strong as 6 months extra training super goku.
Using your logic Beerus = SSJ4 Goku if a flick is only 1/40th a punch. If a flick/touch KO takes Super SSJ3 Goku out than someone 100x stronger can take a punch = 1% Beerus.
Beerus is 10-11k times stronger than DBZ SSJ3 Goku. This needs locked.
@irhp87: Exactly. Dragon Ball has always been a powerscaling feast - calculations are what the show is made of (otherwise SSJ3 Goku and many other unbelievably powerful characters would simply be island busters).
@irhp87: Exactly. Dragon Ball has always been a powerscaling feast - calculations are what the show is made of (otherwise SSJ3 Goku and many other unbelievably powerful characters would simply be island busters).
Of course. The show itself relies on Power Levels (even if they aren't read as numbers) and scaling. It may not fly in other shows, sure, but DBZ works it into its universe. Powerscaling is a feat in DBZ.
@irhp87: Exactly. Dragon Ball has always been a powerscaling feast - calculations are what the show is made of (otherwise SSJ3 Goku and many other unbelievably powerful characters would simply be island busters).
We should all ignore incorrect power scaling....you have SSj3 Goku w/ 6 months training = 1 Beerus lol.
@supermonkeyking: Sure. The proof is right above you: go to the original post and there you will have it. Wonder why you seem to ignore every refutal that I've given you so far, but it doesn't matter. Cheers.
@supermonkeyking: Sure. The proof is right above you: go to the original post and there you will have it. Wonder why you seem to ignore every refutal that I've given you so far, but it doesn't matter. Cheers.
how do you know beerus was using only 10% agaisnt vegeta beerus always lies about how much power he used remember when he said he was going all out on goku he actually wasn't
@thedarkpaladin: Please refrain from calling other people "fanboys" and giving sarcastic names. I know you do that in pretty much every thread on Comicvine, but this isn't the place to do it.
To refute you: Gotenks and Super Buu didn't destroy a single dimension - they traveled through them. As for SSJ4 Goku being cut by glass; hello, mister Super Saiyan "God," how is the "common raygun" (according to Frieza) doing?
Stop being biased. In your predilection itself, it was mentioned that anyone could be hurt at any time and by anything if they kept their guards down.
I find it rather ironic that you can talk about anyone being biased when a) I don't like Super of GT. B) you created this thread right after this:
He loses against all of them, even as SSJB. Base GT Goku from the beginning would defeat his former SSJ3 form without much effort. As a SSJ3, he'd be at least 1000 times stronger than he was in the past - thus stronger than even Beerus. It's ridiculous to put Vegeta on the same level as SSJ4 Gogeta when he couldn't even beat SSJ1 Kid Goku. Of course, there's the hate bandwagon that GT is the devil, so it's understandable that people want to believe Super characters stand a chance even though powerscaling makes them Yamcha in the GT universe.
@irhp87: Exactly. Dragon Ball has always been a powerscaling feast - calculations are what the show is made of (otherwise SSJ3 Goku and many other unbelievably powerful characters would simply be island busters).
We should all ignore incorrect power scaling....you have SSj3 Goku w/ 6 months training = 1 Beerus lol.
@irhp87: Exactly. Dragon Ball has always been a powerscaling feast - calculations are what the show is made of (otherwise SSJ3 Goku and many other unbelievably powerful characters would simply be island busters).
We should all ignore incorrect power scaling....you have SSj3 Goku w/ 6 months training = 1 Beerus lol.
And which Base GT Goku are we going with? GT Goku was equal to SSj3 EoZ Goku in base form as a kid without a tail pre-Baby. So that 6 months of comparatively casual training Goku did pales in comparison to what Goku went through from pre-Baby to EoGT. You probably want to stop splitting hairs now because that pretty much puts GT base above DBS SSj3 Goku but we'll just say "equal" for your side's sake.
How? Are the calculations wrong? Base Kid Goku without a tail (which is GT is stated to increase Power Levels) was above (or for argument's sake, at) the same level as EoZ SSj3 Goku even before he fought Baby, let alone by EoGT, and by EoGT I mean the GT series since most people don't even factor in AHL (I find it impossible to believe anyone can think Goku wouldn't make significant gains in 100 years but there's no "proof"). Is this wrong, and if so, why?
Well, end of Z Goku's strength is up for debate since he never went SSJ3. I don't pay mind to calculations because I take feat and common sense before another user (possibly incorrect) calculations. If we are talking about Goku at the very end of GT, his strength is something we can only speculate on.
@irhp87: Exactly. Dragon Ball has always been a powerscaling feast - calculations are what the show is made of (otherwise SSJ3 Goku and many other unbelievably powerful characters would simply be island busters).
We should all ignore incorrect power scaling....you have SSj3 Goku w/ 6 months training = 1 Beerus lol.
And which Base GT Goku are we going with? GT Goku was equal to SSj3 EoZ Goku in base form as a kid without a tail pre-Baby. So that 6 months of comparatively casual training Goku did pales in comparison to what Goku went through from pre-Baby to EoGT. You probably want to stop splitting hairs now because that pretty much puts GT base above DBS SSj3 Goku but we'll just say "equal" for your side's sake.
I agree with you, you have me wrong. Gt Goku to me = EoZ Goku, period. What i am saying is the casual 6 months training Goku might be 10% stronger if we lowball and to be fair. That 10%+ Goku was casually flicked and touched by Beerus so we can't really say that Goku = 1% Beerus that's not fair. I can take a hit from Superman but i don't = him. I mean he wouldn't kill me(morals on) but he would Ko me like Beerus did to Goku.
Do you think my scaling is fair? People saying DBS SSJ3 Goku = 1% Beerus is not accurate considering he was casually gentle touch KOed. Would you think comparing a full power punch to a flick/touch can be scaled? If he casual flick.touches SSJ3 Goku that is > EoZ Goku that easily i would say 1% Beerus could fight someone 100x more powerful as that Goku at 1% when trying. Would it make sense since a punch = at least 100x stronger than a flick? That would put Beerus 100% at 10,000x EoZ SSj3 Goku, about 11k-12k if Goku upped his power by 10-20% which i think is fair, if this fight was even close i could argue 6 months in DB usually ups power A LOT more than 10-20% but i think that's a fair percent to stop arguments.
Another words if 1% Beerus flicks 15%ish SSj3 Goku > the EOZ Goku GT Goku is scaled off of than 1% Beerus trying >= SSJ2 GT Goku since it's 100x increase.
Feats show Super > GT but i really think scaling off 1% Beerus performance vs DBS SSJ3 Goku is doable.
How? Are the calculations wrong? Base Kid Goku without a tail (which is GT is stated to increase Power Levels) was above (or for argument's sake, at) the same level as EoZ SSj3 Goku even before he fought Baby, let alone by EoGT, and by EoGT I mean the GT series since most people don't even factor in AHL (I find it impossible to believe anyone can think Goku wouldn't make significant gains in 100 years but there's no "proof"). Is this wrong, and if so, why?
Well, end of Z Goku's strength is up for debate since he never went SSJ3. I don't pay mind to calculations because I take feat and common sense before another user (possibly incorrect) calculations. If we are talking about Goku at the very end of GT, his strength is something we can only speculate on.
Think about it like this. DBS takes place 6 months into the 10 year gap between the final chapter of Dragon Ball Z. Dragon Ball GT takes place 5 years after the final chapter of DBZ. This mean DBS Goku has 6 months of training and GT Goku had 15 years instead. Even after he was turned into a kid he was as strong in Base Form as he was as as SSj3 before (minus the 6 month training)
Now let's take AHL Goku. He no longer has the power loss inherent to his child form and has 100 years of training in his adult body with a tail (which increases Power Level significantly).
I understand general hesitance and regarding calculations but these are too major to pass up. Even if we say Kid Goku cannot win against Beerus even as SSj3, can we really say SSj4 Goku, who had 15 years of training, isn't capable of beating Beerus? Let alone 100 years.
I mean, let's not even say who can beat who but I do think some people, like Alphapunk, shoudn't flaunt the 6 month training DBS Goku has to say that the calculations are off because that works against his argument because the favor is tipped toward GT Goku.
Pre-Baby Kid Goku was equal to SSj3 pre-6 month training Goku. That's pretty major and isn't a calculation so at least this shouldn't be ignored.
@irhp87: Exactly. Dragon Ball has always been a powerscaling feast - calculations are what the show is made of (otherwise SSJ3 Goku and many other unbelievably powerful characters would simply be island busters).
We should all ignore incorrect power scaling....you have SSj3 Goku w/ 6 months training = 1 Beerus lol.
And which Base GT Goku are we going with? GT Goku was equal to SSj3 EoZ Goku in base form as a kid without a tail pre-Baby. So that 6 months of comparatively casual training Goku did pales in comparison to what Goku went through from pre-Baby to EoGT. You probably want to stop splitting hairs now because that pretty much puts GT base above DBS SSj3 Goku but we'll just say "equal" for your side's sake.
I agree with you, you have me wrong. Gt Goku to me = EoZ Goku, period. What i am saying is the casual 6 months training Goku might be 10% stronger if we lowball and to be fair. That 10%+ Goku was casually flicked and touched by Beerus so we can't really say that Goku = 1% Beerus that's not fair. I can take a hit from Superman but i don't = him. I mean he wouldn't kill me(morals on) but he would Ko me like Beerus did to Goku.
But that 6 month training pales in comparison to the 15 years of training GT Goku got. It's better for you if we just ignore the training differences altogether. And we have to assume 1% of Beerus beat Goku. Characters are able to toy with others even with smaller differences in power so to highball Beerus to the point where you won't even grant him 1% on Goku is absurd seeing as enraged SSj2 Vegeta blitzed and mildly hurt him and even an enraged SSj2 Vegeta should be in the same ballpark as Goku, relatively speaking.
Beerus hit Goku twice and just because they look like flicks doesn't mean they do not contain power and don't hurt because Goku later flicked Beerus back and it hurt and they were more on equal grounds. You are putting too much emphasis on what the attacks look like, Z Fighters can put real power into casual lookingb attacks. They were relatively casual but that is what 1% would be, casual.
Also comparing Superman and you to Goku and Beerus doesn't work because Vegeta throws a monkey wrench into your example. Even enraged Vegeta is in the same ballpark as Goku, relatively speaking. The only way your point would make any sense is if someone in your ballpark blitzed and mildly hurt Superman. Your logic is off.
The multipliers in GT are as follows: SSJ = 2.5 Base, SSJ2 = 1.5x SSJ, SSJ3 = 3x SSJ2. Therefore, Goku SSJ (GT) isn't 50x Goku Ssj3 from the Buu Saga. He's only 2.5x stronger. Also, that's only during the beginning of GT when his power was equal to Kid Buu. By the time GT Goku reached Planet M2 his Base form surpassed Buuhan, due to Rild being greater than Buuhan.
Goku SSJ3 (Db Super) is the strongest among the Z-Warriors, Pre-SSJG. Whereas in the Buu Saga, 'Gotenks Base Post > Gotenks Ssj (Expected) > Gotenks Ssj Pre-ROST >= Goku Ssj3' is completely implied; back in a time when the Ssj multiplier was 50x Base. This means Db Super is hilarious greater than anything GT could possible be.
Even if you don't want to argue actual logic that is backed by the Japanese Manga, than I can simply debunk you (anybody) with the feats of Goku SSJG shaking the Universe alongside a suppressed Beerus.
How? Are the calculations wrong? Base Kid Goku without a tail (which is GT is stated to increase Power Levels) was above (or for argument's sake, at) the same level as EoZ SSj3 Goku even before he fought Baby, let alone by EoGT, and by EoGT I mean the GT series since most people don't even factor in AHL (I find it impossible to believe anyone can think Goku wouldn't make significant gains in 100 years but there's no "proof"). Is this wrong, and if so, why?
Well, end of Z Goku's strength is up for debate since he never went SSJ3. I don't pay mind to calculations because I take feat and common sense before another user (possibly incorrect) calculations. If we are talking about Goku at the very end of GT, his strength is something we can only speculate on.
Think about it like this. DBS takes place 6 months into the 10 year gap between the final chapter of Dragon Ball Z. Dragon Ball GT takes place 5 years after the final chapter of DBZ. This mean DBS Goku has 6 months of training and GT Goku had 15 years instead. Even after he was turned into a kid he was as strong in Base Form as he was as as SSj3 before (minus the 6 month training)
Did they mention him being that strong? I only ask because I haven't watched GT in a long time and the only thing I remember is Goku stating during his fight with Rildo that he hasn't fought someone that strong since Buu.
Now let's take AHL Goku. He no longer has the power loss inherent to his child form and has 100 years of training in his adult body with a tail (which increases Power Level significantly).
Not much is known about that Goku, tbh. It's reasonable to assume that he would have gotten much stronger, but we still don't know he is truly capable of.
I understand general hesitance and regarding calculations but these are too major to pass up. Even if we say Kid Goku cannot win against Beerus even as SSj3, can we really say SSj4 Goku, who had 15 years of training, isn't capable of beating Beerus? Let alone 100 years.
I personally believe that SSJ4 Goku can't defeat Beerus, but it's questionable about the 100 year time skip Goku.
I mean, let's not even say who can beat who but I do think some people, like Alphapunk, shoudn't flaunt the 6 month training DBS Goku has to say that the calculations are off because that works against his argument because the favor is tipped toward GT Goku.
Honestly, this thread is just bait, as the OP created it right after he saw that nobody thought GT characters could beat SSB Vegeta in another thread so I'm not really going to debate here.
Pre-Baby Kid Goku was equal to SSj3 pre-6 month training Goku. That's pretty major and isn't a calculation so at least this shouldn't be ignored.
Like I said, I don't really remember that being stated, but I can at least believe that much to be true.
No, just no. Vegeta was NOT equal to 10% Beerus and Goku was NOT equal to 1% Beerus. They were both casually one shot. That, in no way, shows equality. And no, SSJ2 Goku from DBGT is NOT even close to equal to 100% Beerus.
@thedarkpaladin: "Did they mention him being that strong? I only ask because I haven't watched GT in a long time and the only thing I remember is Goku stating during his fight with Rildo that he hasn't fought someone that strong since Buu."
I don't blame you for forgetting GT. I forgot a lot myself and I actually think GT is alright (for the most part). But yes, he states that Rilldo (prior to transformation, IIRC) is even stronger than Buu (we don't know which he is talking about since he is not specific but the one of note would be Kid Buu, but we could lowball to Fat Buu). So that should put Rilldo roughly on level with SSj3 Goku. Also, Goku had a shit eating grin on his face while he said it like it's not a problem at all. I'll post the picture at the end.
"Not much is known about that Goku, tbh. It's reasonable to assume that he would have gotten much stronger, but we still don't know he is truly capable of."
Well, concerning AHL Goku, I just take the minimum from him. Even if we assume that he had gained no power in 100 years we do know he gained more power because he is no longer restricted as he was in child form. He definitely got that boost on top of the reasonable assumption that he at least doubled in power (in the series they often multiply their power several fold in smaller time gaps so double is reasonable on the low side). But again, at least the adult form boost for sure. So taking him in base form definitely puts Goku on par (at the lowest of lowballs) with DBS Goku when he first fought Beerus.
"I personally believe that SSJ4 Goku can't defeat Beerus, but it's questionable about the 100 year time skip Goku."
Assuming you agree with my above paragraph that Goku ties with DBS SSj3 Goku, do you still think Beerus could beat SSj4 Goku (after his fight with Omega for Zenkai, but before AHL)? Or even that AHL Goku would win?
I do think you would agree with my earlier statement but you may still believe Beerus wins if you think Beerus was using far less than 1% when he fought SSj3 Goku. So, how much power would you say he used? Even half of a percent would make Goku the winner based on the OP's calculations.
"Honestly, this thread is just bait, as the OP created it right after he saw that nobody thought GT characters could beat SSB Vegeta in another thread so I'm not really going to debate here."
Ah, I see. I didn't know it was made as bait. I just took it at face value. I understand if you don't want to continue after this, but I'm still hoping you would address my questions, if not here, than somewhere else, when you have the time.
"Like I said, I don't really remember that being stated, but I can at least believe that much to be true."
Fair enough, but I'll post a relevant picture anyway.
Actualy, it won't let me post it for some reason...this has been happening a lot lately to me. I'll just post the link again.
@irhp87: Exactly. Dragon Ball has always been a powerscaling feast - calculations are what the show is made of (otherwise SSJ3 Goku and many other unbelievably powerful characters would simply be island busters).
We should all ignore incorrect power scaling....you have SSj3 Goku w/ 6 months training = 1 Beerus lol.
And which Base GT Goku are we going with? GT Goku was equal to SSj3 EoZ Goku in base form as a kid without a tail pre-Baby. So that 6 months of comparatively casual training Goku did pales in comparison to what Goku went through from pre-Baby to EoGT. You probably want to stop splitting hairs now because that pretty much puts GT base above DBS SSj3 Goku but we'll just say "equal" for your side's sake.
I agree with you, you have me wrong. Gt Goku to me = EoZ Goku, period. What i am saying is the casual 6 months training Goku might be 10% stronger if we lowball and to be fair. That 10%+ Goku was casually flicked and touched by Beerus so we can't really say that Goku = 1% Beerus that's not fair. I can take a hit from Superman but i don't = him. I mean he wouldn't kill me(morals on) but he would Ko me like Beerus did to Goku.
But that 6 month training pales in comparison to the 15 years of training GT Goku got. It's better for you if we just ignore the training differences altogether. And we have to assume 1% of Beerus beat Goku. Characters are able to toy with others even with smaller differences in power so to highball Beerus to the point where you won't even grant him 1% on Goku is absurd seeing as enraged SSj2 Vegeta blitzed and mildly hurt him and even an enraged SSj2 Vegeta should be in the same ballpark as Goku, relatively speaking.
Beerus hit Goku twice and just because they look like flicks doesn't mean they do not contain power and don't hurt because Goku later flicked Beerus back and it hurt and they were more on equal grounds. You are putting too much emphasis on what the attacks look like, Z Fighters can put real power into casual lookingb attacks. They were relatively casual but that is what 1% would be, casual.
Also comparing Superman and you to Goku and Beerus doesn't work because Vegeta throws a monkey wrench into your example. Even enraged Vegeta is in the same ballpark as Goku, relatively speaking. The only way your point would make any sense is if someone in your ballpark blitzed and mildly hurt Superman. Your logic is off.
We have a set level for GT Goku, that is SSJ3 EoZ Goku, i see no reason to not give Super Goku a slight increase, 10-20% is conservative and shouldn't be ignored. Why would i grant SSJ3 Goku with = 1% Beerus? He was humiliated, flicked and gentle touch KOed. If Superman casually touches and flicks Spiderman we don't say Spiderman = Superman so we cannot say SSJ3 Goku is anywhere near 1% Beerus. Rage Vegeta is leagues over Goku, Vegeta is my favorite character but i think him staying SSJ2 and doing so well was a little overboard. If he somehow became SSJ3 in the mortal realm and did that it would have been better, even if it's stupid we have to say Rage Vegeta >>>> SSJ3 Goku based on performance, he no sells a punch from a guy that gently touched KOed Goku.
Maybe i am putting to much into the flick and touch but the fact is their is still a huge difference in a DBS punch and flick, SSG Goku might have hurt Beerus but he did not fling him or KO him, i could flick a full grown man and hurt his forehead but it's nothing compared to a punch.
My logic is not off, Beerus casually KOs Goku with a damn touch at 1%, this isn't even about winning a debate i don't want to argue i agree with many of your posts but to say the Goku that was humiliated worst than ever by Beerus at his 1% equal just isn't right. We can only guess what % beerus was using of his 1% power but i think we should all agree if you almost KO a guy with a flick and KO him with a light touch that guy isn't your equal.
Also stupid or not Vegeta no sells a punch that might have KILLED SSJ3 Goku, he is far and beyond out of Gokus league at that point, hell he still is stronger than Goku atm even in god modes.
We can agree to disagree but it doesn't matter, GT has weak feats and Super pumps them out every manga issue. I was power scaling to be nice and didn't want to say SUPER STOMPS DUE TO FEATS because i give GT some respect. All i know is 1% Beerus can flick and touch KO Base GT Goku, even if SSJ1 Goku = 1% Beerus the math shows Beerus beats Goku SSJ4, SSJ2 Goku would take less than what it did to KO rage Vegeta, stupid as that is.
Where'd you get those numbers? beerus at 1% 2 shot goku with his weak finger punches. So according to you, getting beat by 2 weak finger punches means your equal to them? Also, beerus probably just raised his power to 10% randomly, as he can't scale with vegetas exact power. Vegeta only pushed him around, but didn't leave a dent. SO beerus 10%>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ragetta. So in my opinion (supported like with over 9000 facts) is that omega shenron<billy<ssj4 gogeta by a tiny bit. Don't make me right a essay about my facts plz. But if they are at equal power, bills might win because they are equally stupid but goku can't sense that op ki
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