Ssb gogeta, MUI Goku, LSSJ Broly, limit breaker Jiren, and Merged Zamasu vs 12 GoDs

Who takes it?

it takes place on an empty indestructible planet

All are serious, but not necessarily bloodlusted

Zamasu cant go astral

Unlimited fusion time and stamina for all contestants

Win by killing the other team

SSB Gogeta from what I know of the movie is the only one here that's even worth mentioning.

MUI Goku = 1 God at best

LSSJ Broly = 1 God at best

Limit Breaker Jiren = 1 God at best

Merged Zamasu doesn't even = 1 Imo

Can Gogeta beat 8 GoD's lol? If he's even relative to Whis then he might actually be able to.

@doctordamn: Was it directly stated that Goku and Jiren are above all GoD's? I'd argue Beerus is still relative to MUI Goku. And isn't Broly marginally weaker than Gogeta since he was being toyed with?

@limitlesssigil:

MUI Goku = 1 God at best

LSSJ Broly = 1 God at best

Limit Breaker Jiren = 1 God at best

Regular Full Power Jiren was God level if not above, with being above the likes of Belmod and Broly is even stronger than LB Jiren. MUI Goku was said to have power surpassing a God,

I'd argue Beerus is still relative to MUI Goku.

I'd like to hear that argument, considering that means he'd dwarf Full Power Jiren, who was God level, and superior to some such as Belmod, and UIO Goku, who was said to potentially surpass Beerus.

@limitlesssigil: wel broly is stated to be >=Beerus

Jiren and Goku are both >=any GoD

Zamasu is able to give ssb Vegito a decent fight so he’s in the ballpark as well

And ssb gogeta effortlessly curbed someone who is equal to or stronger than Beerus

It’s a bunch of people who are slightly stronger than GoDs, one who is close to them, and one substantially stronger

@karkus: The power scaling in DBS is laughable, so that kind of logic doesn't really work.

@scotchbear: That's what I'm saying, this is basically 4 fighters who are roughly equal to the GoD's or slightly stronger and Gogeta who would body any of them.

Unless Gogeta can take out at least 5 of them then they don't win this.

So then if power scaling is laughable, how does one make an argument for who beats anyone, or Beerus beating anybody?

@karkus: Look at it from a portrayal standpoint, are you suggesting Beerus is fodder in DBS now? It's more likely that they're just going to write him to be equally as strong if not stronger than MUI Goku when DBS returns.

@limitlesssigil: He doesn't have to be fodder to be weaker than MUI Goku. For now, all the actual evidence we have puts Beerus as inferior to MUI Goku, and we will have to wait for when DBS returns to see if your theory is true.

@karkus: How strong would you place SSB Gogeta btw? = to Whis or slightly weaker.

@limitlesssigil: no way ssb gogeta=whis

I’d put it like

Beerus=10

Broly=10.5

Ssb gogeta=25

Whis=50

@limitlesssigil: Whis's strength is widely unknown. All we know is he stomped Broly. Not sure if that puts him above Whis though, since Whis can one-shot Beeurs.

@scotchbear: From what I know of his feats in the movie, feat's wise Gogeta is stronger than Whis.

@limitlesssigil: whis can casually One Shot Beerus

Ssb gogeta was unable to one shot broly who is probably pretty equal to Beerus, in fact it took several strong attacks from gogeta to finally get broly out of the fight

That feat alone puts whis still substantially above gogeta

@limitlesssigil: broly is stated to be “probably stronger than Beerus” by goku, so he’s in the ballpark.

Whis also “fought” broly, broly charged him in his ssj form and whis literally dodge him while laughing

Whis was able to casually one shot Beerus when he was in a serious fight with champa

Goku has no real idea how strong Beerus is since he isn't near Beerus himself...

GoDs win easily.

If Hakai is allowed, then the GoDs take this.

If not, I am not willing to go into this amount of estimation.

We have no idea how much Gogeta is stronger than GoDs, and it's still hard to estimate where Goku, Jiren, and Broly stand with respect to beerus.

On top of that, are all GoDs in the same ball park?

If I have to guess, I'd say GoDs take this either way

Broly was never stated to be above Beerus. Goku only entertained, not confirmed, that possibility - and I won't even take his words seriously since he haven't even faced Beerus at his best before. Given his feats and scaling, he simply isn't up to par. I highly doubt SSJ Broly is SSBKKx20 level anyways given that Golden Frieza was able to hold out against him for lengthy periods of time despite losing, so I doubt LSSJ Broly would be above Beerus, given the massive power disparity between SSBKKx20 and Beerus level.

That being said, every fighter here except Broly have surpassed GoD tier. That dosen't change the outcome of the fight though, because 12 GoDs are far too much for them.

The team could pull it off. A GoD's level isn't set. Jiren already was above Beerus during his second bout SSB Goku and Vegeta, nevermind Limit Breaker Jiren who gave a mastered MUI Goku trouble. Then you have MUI Goku himself, Gogeta and Broly at his max, who was starting to give Gogeta some grief. Zamasu is contributing nothing here except fodder.

The team could definitely take it. It depends what we're calling GoD "level" are we talking 12 Beerus' or 12 like Champas?

Is there any character here that can take on two gods? Cuz I don't see how 12 gods lose to these guys

Not any god. The assumption is the 4 universes GoDs outside of ToP were more powerful then the rest.

Makes sense too. Pride Troopers were, on a whole, pretty weak. Only the big three were of any real concern, and they had the highest mortal level. Jiren being most of that power level himself.

Where as Universe 9 was the lowest, and had a pitiful GoD.

Foreshadowing also leads us to some scaling. Saving 4 universes leaves them with somewhere to go and something to do later. That would indicate they are stronger as well.

Gods probably win pretty easily, banking on the big 4 and beerus to do most of the heavy lifting. More then likely the majority of those 5 have MUI.

@Aristeaus: none of the GoDs have MUI

It’s stated to above and beyond their reach

What? Thats not at all what was stated.

It was stated that it is difficult to master, even for gods. That insinuates that some have, and if you think none of the 8 do, then some of the big 4 must have it.

@scotchbear: Beerus was confirmed to have it just not have mastered it.

@Aristeaus:

What? Thats not at all what was stated.

Gallery

@noobsnowman: Frieza was stated to have gotten stronger from the time between the ToP and the broly movie, in the Light Novel.

The gods.

@zannrebel: Scan?

@karkus said:

@Aristeaus:

What? Thats not at all what was stated.

Gallery

Or you can watch Episode 110. At 17:20, literally says

"That is a state that not even a god can easily attain".

"That seems like something well known among the gods"

"What you dont know about it? Amatuer"

Plenty of evidence to the contrary. Even the big 4 gods arent impressed at all by there reactions, especially considering the other gods reactions.

Granted that is only half of it, but still. Your using a preview translation that are heavily artistic. They do that all the time.

No, its a logical assumption based on decades of anime/manga structure, foreshadowing, reactions, knowledge of the ability, etc.

We clearly know that destroyers are also not equal. Sidris was weak as hell, his Hakai was overpowered by Frieza. Where as Toppo, a mere god of destruction candidate ( not a true GoD ), was able to overpower Frieza with it, but still not kill him. There is obvious scaling between gods here.

Higher mortal level = more mortals on GoD level = stronger gods in order to keep their position.

@Aristeaus: Sidra is not weak as hell. Compare the hakai balls between Toppo and Sidra. Sidra used a hakai ball the size of a dodge ball and Toppo used one several times the size of freeza. They used very different amounts of the energy.

A candidate who cant properly use destruction energy cannot be stronger than an official god whos skills are vastyly superior, doesnt add up.

The same size of a dogeball that completely enveloped Frieza and Goku?

Using your own logic, GoD's have varying amounts of time in position, and thus training and experience with their power. So which is it? Cant have it both ways. Either Sidra is weaker then Toppo because of evidence, or Sidra is stronger because he is a god and has had more time training, in which the gods are not equal and Sidra is still almost certainly the weakest GoD.

:-P

GoDs easily

I just gave you like 10 reasons lol...

The gods arent equal. We know this. There is ample evidence to support this. You can ignore decades of anime/manga experience if you want. We arent having a CaV here where I have to prove everything to you based soley on feats. Literally basic logic here. If MUI Goku and SSB Gogeta are above all the gods, then there is no more story to tell.

didn’t Zamasu and Goku Black killed all of the GoD in their timeline? if thats the case they could solo.

Irony. That was a translation of a preview in a magazine. Not at all canon, yet you are using that as a argument.

Grand Priest is featless too. Should we assume hes below Krillin because Krillin has feats? luls.

@syntix: they killed them by killing their kaioshins, least from what I remember

Correct.

You forgot to add Vegito Blue.

@Aristeaus:

Plenty of evidence to the contrary.

That doesn't contradict it, as this is referring to merely achieving UI, while this doesn't talk about mastery of it. the guidebooks directly says no God has mastered it. The Gods were all impressed when Goku achieved MUI.

Higher mortal level = more mortals on GoD level = stronger gods in order to keep their position.

Never stated or shown, and in the Manga, when some Gods with higher mortal levels were shown as inferior power wise to other Gods with lower mortal levels.

@Aristeaus:

Hakai energy is compressed and expands as you can see in these pictures. The hakai ball Sidra used was a dodgeball that expanded to cover freeza. The one Toppo used was already bigger than freeza and became massive after expanding. They used different amounts of energy if they used the same amount the Sidras wouldve been stronger.

Yes they have varying amounts of time in the position, training and experience. The gods are not equal I didnt say they were im just saying Sidra isnt as weak as youre suggesting being weaker than a candidate who hasnt finished their training. We dont know where he is on the power scale of the 12 gods, what suggests hes the weakest.

Its not a databook/guidebook. The last one printed was 2015, for the Frieza movie. It is not cannon.

Sidra was shown to be more powerful in the Manga ( he had AoE Hakai ), but he still got defeated by two different gods.

Higher Mortal Levels would logically mean there are more mortals who are capable of becoming a GoD, right? Toppo was not all that strong prior, after all. That would mean that there is more competition for the GoD slot of that universe. Its entirely possible that there are mortals like Jiren with no desire to be GoD, but they cant all be like that. It would not make sense for there to be a universe ( whichever ones the highest, for example ) with just a bunch of people stronger then the GoD like its no big deal.

Sure. Ok. Master Roshi was able to use UI like movement and dodge and land hits on Jiren in the manga.

@whatamiseeing

They dont always expand though.

Toppo used very small ones that never expanded.

Based on current feats and statements, he is the weakest. Hell, he was the one that said basic SSB rivaled the gods in power during Universe 6 saga. Are we to assume SSB is >= GoD's, or that it rivaled Sidra's power, hence why he said it? Im gonna go with the latter.