Spidey 15 (Wolverine) vs Power NeXus (Captain America)

-Wolverine does not have adamantium 
-Wolverine is unarmed, Cap has his shield. 
-Morals are on. Let's say that both of them have been led to believe that the other has 'turned to the dark side'. No amount of banter during the fight will let either one realize that they're still on the same side. 
-Standard rules for victory apply (KO, death, incapacitation, ect). 
-Fight takes place in the middle of the street in Manhattan at dusk, unpopulated. There are still cars around though.
-Fighters start 50 yards apart, within sight of each other. 
 
 
If you have any discrepancies about these rules (you think I gave one character too much of an advantage) let me know.

-Grabs popcorn-

" -Grabs popcorn- "

" Logan apparently beat Cap once in scans Spidey has "

" @MarvelJackAss433 said:

" -Grabs popcorn- "

I get the feeling I'm slightly outclassed here. Logan apparently beat Cap once in scans Spidey has, and I think Spidey has surpassed me in debating skill. But this one's still going to be really fun! "

   But good luck. I know who I am rooting for. =) 

" good luck! "

no regeneration than I say Cap

I like this concept. Good luck!

" -Grabs popcorn- "

 Logan will close the distance between them.

 Logan's reflexes will let him to dodge a few attacks from Cap and his healing should be able to heal him from a few attacks that cap might manage to land.      

 Also, IMO, Logan is as skilled as cap and a combination of his skills with his healing factor and reflexes, should allow him to take a slight advantage over cap.   

Cap knows that Logan has to get into melee range to be effective at all. Cap's shield gives him an incredible long-range advantage. I think Cap would try to take Wolverine out with a shield throw before letting it go to h2h.  
I'll provide all necessary scans in a different post.   

 Wolverine might be able to dodge a few attacks, but he's been tagged plenty of times by people slower than Cap. As for the healing factor, Cap knows what Wolverine is capable of healing from, so he knows from the very beginning that he needs to be aiming for joints, pressure points, and all other areas that don't have to have a major wound to be effected. Breaking bones is a good option too. They take a pretty long time to heal properly, greatly reduce Wolverine's fighting effectiveness, and Cap has already shown that a shield throw can sever a man's arm clean off (and due to the laws of physics, a melee bash with the shield should be even more powerful than a shield throw). Even if morals are on, anyone who knows Wolverine and is normally friends with him won't hesitate to do serious damage to him if they feel like it.    
 

Gallery

 Some sources say that Logan is among the Marvel universe's top martial artists, but the vast majority of his fights indicate that he rarely lives up to that. Highly skilled or not, he's usually just a hack-and-slash kind of guy.   

Gallery

Gallery

 Wolverine is already aware how dangerous is cap's shield and how skilled cap is with that weapon, so the long distance between them, it will be an advantage for Wolverine to use stealth in order to close the distance between them and sneak up on cap.   

 Also nerve strikes shouldn't be a problem for Logan. He has already taken many nerve strikes from Echo( i think ) and because of his healing, he healed pretty fast from their effects. I wouldn't count the instance with DD pretty valid. Not to mention that now that he does not have adamantium, his healing should work faster than otherwise.   

 Breaking bones would be a good idea but will cap be able to do it without losing any limbs? Because Logan won't be standing just there without doing anything or dodging. As i said he is aware of the damage that the shield can cause and he will try to dodge most of the hits but even when cap will tag him, Logan has high pain tolerance and even if he does not have his great durability, his healing could still heal his injuries and help him to keep up with few of cap's attacks.   

Also, Logan has the potential to one shot cap, because, even when morals are on, Logan does not hesitate to use his claws and now that he thinks that cap is on the dark side, he would most likely use his claws in a more effective way.   

 And Logan's stealth mode will be a good advantage for him because he will be able to land the first hit. But even if he won't be able to do it, it will still be a good way for him to close the distance and turn the fight in h2h.   
 

 Logan here, is using the skills that he learn in order to fight and dodge. You can see the flashbacks.   

 Against Shang Chi:   And in that fight, Logan didn't use his claws until when he put him down. But the point is that his claws didn't help him. 

 Against Black Panther:     
 I'm not sure what was the outcome of that fight but the point is that he was fast and skilled enough to put T'Challa down, while he was attacking.  

Hmm. I'm thinking I may have bitten off more than I can chew.

Logah is good at stealth, but he can't just disappear into thin air. Cap knows Wolverine is most vulnerable when he's out in the open at a distance. From the moment the fight starts, Cap will be working his way into a position where he can see Logan and get a clear shot at him. Cap isn't dumb enough to let Logan disappear behind a corner.    

 Nerve strikes aren't as effective on Logan as they are on other people, but they would still give Cap a perfect opportunity to capitalize with some more powerful hits.  
 

 I don't think Cap would go for the 'bone-breaking' blows right off the bat, as they would leave him more vulnerable. I can see him using quick strikes to joints and pressure points first to get Wolverine down for just a second, and then pulling out all the stops and snapping his bones in half.    
 

   Logan has a lot of respect for Cap. Even if he thinks he's an enemy, I can't see Logan going for a lethal blow unless he sees no other choice. Cap, on the other hand, knows that Wolverine can take one h**l of a beating and still be fine the next day, so he won't be pulling his strikes.  
  

That is IF Logan is stealthy enough to sneak up on Cap. I find that highly unlikely. And if his sneak attack fails, it just gives Cap a golden opportunity to tag him with a shield throw from point blank range. 
 

 D**n you for using my favorite Wolverine scans against me!!!  
 

  Well... Shang Chi didn't have a giant shield... and he's not as good as Cap... and he had no idea who Wolverine was or what he could do, so he wasn't prepared.  
  

 T'Challa also fought Cap once, and I believe it ended in a stalemate. I don't have the scans of the fight though.   
 

  For the record, in the first set of scans you showed (where Wolverine is going all kung fu on those mystical baddies in Chinatown), that was his second time fighting them. The first time, he pretty much charged at them like a bull and he totally got his a$$ handed to him by every one of them. He barely escaped with his life. Then he met some old dude in the sewers, went through rigorous training to get his samurai skills back, and then defeated those dudes in the second round. 
 

 Of course it won't be that easy but Logan has shown some insane stealth skills. And considering that there is a long distance between them and that there are cars there. It will be a good help to use his stealth abilities. Yeah cap might work his position but that doesn't mean he will be able to find Logan. Logan was able to use his stealth abilities in a forest without making any sound at all. Here it will be even easier. Also Logan was able to vanished in front of some soldiers while they were looking at him and i think there was a time that he vanished in front of Nightcrawler.   

 But in order to land a nerve strike, you have to be very specific and since Logan will bother to dodge cap's attacks, then i think it will be very doubtful that cap might be able to land a successful nerve pinch.   

 Logan's healing, high pain tolerance and reflexes will make this extremely hard for cap.   

 I'm aware of that. But as i said he does not hesitate to use his claws. He might not go for the kill but he won't hesitate to cause great damage on cap.   

 According to my scans, he is highly skilled in terms of stealth and 50 feet distance is not too long for someone as fast as Logan. And even if he fail to sneak up on him, at least he should be able to close the distance. I'm very sure about it.   

 Of course, i'm not denying that. My point is that Logan can take on highly skilled characters even without his claws. Also, Shang knew what Logan is capable off. They had another fight before. Shang had won, but Logan was not as skilled as he is now and the location was a good help for Shang in order to beat him. 
 But the fight where Logan won, it was fair and he didn't even use his claws.   

I know, but this does not really matter since he still has the skills that he learned. 
=]  

" @TerrorMask: To each their own. "

  Vanishing from right in front of normal people isn't THAT impressive. Plenty of other street levelers have done the same thing.   
  And even if Logan does manage to disappear, getting the drop on Cap is still a whole new challenge. Cap knows all the tricks to avoid being snuck up on. Keep moving, watch the shadows, stay out in the open, ect. Heck, Cap might just climb on top of a building or something and wait for Logan to come to him.    

 I was just using 'nerve strike' as a general term for any attack that can be effective without actually causing a lot of damage to the body. This could be blows to the joints and ligaments, hits to the back of the head or other major arteries,  slaps to the side of the head, hits to pressure points or soft tissue, eye gouging, or actual nerve pinches. All of those attacks can cause pain, temporary incapacitation of body parts, disorientation, ect, without doing damage that a healing factor could fix within seconds. If Cap lands some attacks of that kind, it could slow Wolverine down enough to give Cap the chance to land some more decisive blows. 
BTW, have you seen the movie Sherlock Holmes (the recent one with Robert Downey Jr). What I'm talking about here makes me think of one of the fight scenes from that movie, but I can't really reference it if you haven't seen it.   

Gallery

Gallery

 Not if Cap plays his cards right. Lightning-fast, disabling strikes in the beginning. Heavier, more crippling blows right after that. Knockout when he's down (there are quite a few ways to make a person lose conciousness without really injuring them. The most commonly known one is a sharp hit to the back of the head).    
 

 Agreed. I was just making sure we were on the same page.  
   

  He may be able to close the distance, but he won't be able to get right up in Cap's face before Cap spots him. If he is really good with his stealth, I can see him being within 5-10 feet of Cap by the time Cap is aware of his location. Still, because of his shield, Cap can attack instantly from that range. Wolverine still has to get right up in Cap's grill to be effective. Even if he can dodge bullets, I see Wolverine having very little chance of dodging Cap's shield being thrown from 10 feet away.  
  

 Are you sure that isn't their first fight? The dialogue seems to indicate they had never met before. "Surprised-- ain't you boy?" "First time you ever squared off against an opponent with enhanced animal senses"  "I'm chock full o' surprises." 
That doesn't sound like dialogue for people who have battled each other before.  
   

He's had skills like that for most of his life. But the first time he fought those guys, he chose not to use them. It was only when they beat the living daylights out of him that he decided to have a "Rocky montage" with that old sensei so he could focus on his skills again. 
So, yes, he does have those skills. He just doesn't use them all the time.    
 

YAY, skillet!

" @spidey 15: That band sucks. "

Also, now that i think it better, Logan is aware of cap's high tactical intellect and how he thinks during battle so he should know that sneaking up on him it will be extremely hard. So  he might only try to close the distance.   

Well, this kind of attacks will be a lot more effective against a character like spider-man. But Logan's amazing healing factor( which is more effective now that he does not have adamantium ) and his high pain tolerance should allow him to easily withstand these kind of attacks. Also Logan's reflexes should allow him to roll with the hits so the damage will be even less. 
Here is bone claw Logan having broken bones by this car and he was still able to heal fast enough and stand up  
 

NOTE: Sorry, i have not seen the movie but i have heard about it. It sounds interesting so i'll have it in mind. 
   

 Logan has what it's needed to roll with cap's hits, block, dodge, withstand and heal from them. So as i said before, it will be extremely hard for cap to cause great damage on Logan. Especially when he has shown the ability to heal from broken bones pretty easily and dodging bullets even if he suffers from high pains.  
   

As i have already mention, Logan might not try to sneak up on him, but he will obviously be able to close the distance to the point that a shield throw, won't save cap from having an h2h fight with Logan.   

That makes sense, but seriously, i don't have any explanation about that.  
Even if this is their first fight, the fact that Logan had normal bones and he did't use his claws and the fight was only h2h, it still counts as a great skill feat. 
   

Sorry, i was not able to read Manifest Destiny so i could not know. But that does not mean that he won't use his skill here. Especially when he has low durability and he knows how skilled and good strategist that Cap is. 
=]   

  I think that is a point on which we can agree. Wolverine may be capable of stealthily closing the gap, but a full-fledged surprise attack would be implausible against Cap.  
  

 The point of attacks like that is that the don't actually create the kind of damage that a healing factor would instantly take care of. Just as an example, I believe there is a major pressure zone on the inside of the elbow. Due to the nerves and major arteries in that area, a really hard jab to that spot can cause the whole arm to go numb. The hit doesn't actually cause an injury. It just pinches off the nerves and blood flow in the area, causing the arm to temporarily shut down. There are a great many ways similar to that to cause pain or dysfunction without really injuring the person.   
   

   Ah well. It's one of my favorite fight scenes from any movie, and it almost perfectly illustrates the point I'm trying to make with the "disable without injuring" attacks. 
Basically, Sherlock Holmes is in a boxing match with an opponent much larger and stronger than himself. It would be very difficult for Holmes to bring down such a large opponent with brute force, so his entire strategy for most of the fight is to slap the other guy. Slaps don't do nearly as much damage as a punch, but the are far quicker and easier to land, and can be just as painful. A good slap to the side of the head will seriously mess up the inner ear, causing dizziness and disorientation (but no injury). Also, there's nothing quite like constant, repetitive painful flicks and slaps to really piss your opponent off and make him sloppy. Eventually, Holmes' constant slapping leaves the other guy disoriented and open enough that Holmes could land an epic combo of brutal hits to take him down.   
 

 It's true that Logan's healing factor is very powerful, but Cap does have ways to get past it if he can just stun Logan enough to get a clear shot. 
Logan can heal from major bone fractures, but I don't think he can heal from a limb being snapped in half (reference to the scan where Cap slices Red Skull's arm in half with a shield throw), and there's nothing to heal from if Cap uses the right method to simply knock him out (blow to the back of the head, nerve pinch, choke-hold, ect).    
 

   I can't imagine Logan getting any closer than 5-10 feet of Cap before Cap knows where he is. As for the shield throw, the closer a projectile is to you, the less time you have to dodge. That's why dodging bullets at point blank range is more impressive than dodging bullets from far away. Cap can throw his shield fast enough to catch up to a missle that already had a head start, and with enough accuracy to bounce it around the room and light a cigarette lighter without breaking it (scans of these feats have already been provided), and his shield is WAY bigger than a bullet (meaning Wolverine has to move farther to get out of it's path). Bullet dodger or not, I don't think Logan has very good chances of dodging Cap's shield throw when Cap is only five or ten feet away.   
  

 I'm no longer sure quite how to take that scan. I want to take your word for it that it was not their first time fighting. But the dialogue just seems to indicate that Shang Chi was not aware of Logan's capabilities (thus making the feat somewhat less impressive).  
   

So you say you didn't read Manifest Destiny? Hmm.... 
Well then I guess you should know that the first time Wolverine fought those guys, he was already aware they had crazy-awesome mystical powers and skills, he never even used his claws, and one of them (with completely human-level strength) finished the fight by one-shotting him with a punch to the face. 
Lol j/k that was all a lie :)   
 

Go power Nexus!
 
Go Spidey!
 
Go Power Nexus!
 
Go Spidey!
 
I hate you both for having me decide.....-_-

" Go power Nexus!  Go Spidey!  Go Power Nexus!  Go Spidey!  I hate you both for having me decide.....-_- "

" @SlimJ87D: Nope. As you can see in the last panel, Logan has Shang's head between the 2 of his claws. And as you can see, these are bone claws. =] "

I'll try to put up a reply tomorrow. I'm dead tired right now.

Daaaaang. I had forgotten all about this. 
Good times.

" I'm confuesd . Did you guys have a one no one debate or did that just happen "

"@Power NeXus: by yo hoosing , did i have to be fair , like what if you picked nightwing and he picked Darkseid ? like does it have to be a good fight "