@anthp2000: Some of these feats seem unclear to me. In Zuko gif Zuko was aware there was going to be an explosion, and there were multiple explosions, each exploding upward one after the other (that is one of the few episodes I'm familiar with). He would have had plenty of time to react.I haven't seen legend of Korra so I am not sure how the new generation compares to the old generation but the second gif makes it look like like there were multiple explosions in the building which again would have given that guy in the second gif a chance to react. The first gif looks legit.
The other issue is any of the characters in your gifs are the ones present in this thread either. Plus I would still argue spider-man has the potential to blitz even if they could block attacks from explosions. During spider-island everyone was given spider-powers and as a result of these spider-powers Hercules commented he could see bullets with uncommon clarity. Yet Peter was still able to blitz some of his rogues when they had spider-powers:
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It might also be worth noting that blocking explosions isn't the type of speed they really need to fight spider-man. Unless they can prevent Peter from closing the distance they aren't going to block his attacks. Even if they can prevent Peter from closing the distance they would still have to worry about webbing (which I might even argue is something Iroh can't deal with at all). I would also argue that Peter is a lot different than the usual enemies that exist within avatar from what I have seen. So even though Bumi and Iroh are experienced in general this is still going to be a different fight than what they have experienced, especially since this takes place within New York giving Peter plenty of buildings to maneuver off of.
@anthp2000: Some of these feats seem unclear to me. In Zuko gif Zuko was aware there was going to be an explosion, and there were multiple explosions, each exploding upward one after the other (that is one of the few episodes I'm familiar with). He would have had plenty of time to react.I haven't seen legend of Korra so I am not sure how the new generation compares to the old generation but the second gif makes it look like like there were multiple explosions in the building which again would have given that guy in the second gif a chance to react. The first gif looks legit.
Zuko didn't know there was going to be an exlposion, he just saw the pirates' parrot and knew something would probably happen. 2 exlposions did occur before he bent the third away sure, but that guy is generally slower than high and top tiers in Avatar (which is what Iroh and Bumi are).
The other issue is any of the characters in your gifs are the ones present in this thread either.
Bumi was able to evenly trade blows with Aang, Aang is faster than everyone in the Avatarverse. He was also able to evenly trade blows with Toph, who is also one of the fastest people in the Avatarverse. Iroh does lack feats sure, but by scaling he is just as fast.
Plus I would still argue spider-man has the potential to blitz even if they could block attacks from explosions. During spider-island everyone was given spider-powers and as a result of these spider-powers Hercules commented he could see bullets with uncommon clarity. Yet Peter was still able to blitz some of his rogues when they had spider-powers:
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It might also be worth noting that blocking explosions isn't the type of speed they really need to fight spider-man. Unless they can prevent Peter from closing the distance they aren't going to block his attacks. Even if they can prevent Peter from closing the distance they would still have to worry about webbing (which I might even argue is something Iroh can't deal with at all).
Iroh could probably burn the webs down, Bumi can definetely stonewall them.
I would also argue that Peter is a lot different than the usual enemies that exist within avatar from what I have seen.
There are people comparable to Spidey's fighting style:
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Though this is from LoK so technically, they do not have experience with Lin.
So even though Bumi and Iroh are experienced in general this is still going to be a different fight than what they have experienced, especially since this takes place within New York giving Peter plenty of buildings to maneuver off of.
Bumi can easily throw buildings away, he is insanely powerful.
Zuko didn't know there was going to be an exlposion, he just saw the pirates' parrot and knew something would probably happen.
2 exlposions did occur before he bent the third away sure, but that guy is generally slower than high and top tiers in Avatar (which is what Iroh and Bumi are).
What makes Zuko slower than Bumi or Iroh? I know they would beat him in a fight but my understanding is this is due to Iroh and Bumi being more powerful and masterful in bending than Zuko. Is there some sort of proof they are faster than Zuko? A showing or a statement? Zuko has actually trained in sword fighting and hand to hand and not to mention he is younger than they are so I don't think its a stretch to say Zuko is more physically capable than they are despite them having the capacity to stomp Zuko in a fight. I'm not saying Zuko can blitz them or anything but just because they can keep up with him doesn't mean they are as fast.
Bumi was able to evenly trade blows with Aang, Aang is faster than everyone in the Avatarverse. He was also able to evenly trade blows with Toph, who is also one of the fastest people in the Avatarverse.
Wasn't Bumi able to keep up with Aang because he was familiar with air bending tactics due to experience fighting them? Toph doesn't have a similar fighting style to spider-man so I don't think keeping up with her is as relevant.
Iroh does lack feats sure, but by scaling he is just as fast.
Well I'm still not seeing anything from avatar characters in general that suggests they can keep up to be honest.
Iroh could probably burn the webs down,
Webbing is fire proof. Its withstood worst.
Bumi can definetely stonewall them.
Well that is why I mentioned Iroh specifically. Still if he is raising a wall in front of himself that means he is taking his eyes off of spider-man. With Peter's speed and agility it wouldn't be difficult for him to lose track of Peter.
Bumi can easily throw buildings away, he is insanely powerful.
His power isn't something I called into question. Really even if Bumi does throw boulders at spider-man he can just leap on top of them to close the gap.
@jashro44: I didn't say Zuko is slower. I said Mako, the guy in the second gif, is slower.
Airbenders don't have any speed edge over other benders. Aang just does. Bumi was capable of keeping up with him not because of experience, but because of his own speed. And I brought up Bumi's fight with Toph to showcase his speed. Toph is also one of the fastest people in the verse.
What has Spidey done to suggest he can blitz them?
Fair enough about the web. But he can still dodge it. Though we've seen firebenders soldifying their fire, Iroh doesn't have feats of doing so.
Those are not boulders. They're litteral buildings. Bumi can bend the houses Spidey will be webbing on.
I didn't say Zuko is slower. I said Mako, the guy in the second gif, is slower.
Isn't he a legend of Korra character? Regardless as I said it looks like there were multiple explosions before the explosion that guy reacted to happened. So I don't find that feat particularly impressive.
Airbendera don't have any speed edge over other benders. Aang just does. Bumi was capable of keeping up with him not because of experience, but because of his own speed. And I brought up Bumi's fight with Toph to showcase his speed. Toph is also one of the fastest people in the verse.
I thought enhanced speed and agility were apart of air bending? Bumi said avoiding and evading was a typical air bender tactic. Regardless considering he called Aang predictable during that fight even if I acknowledge Aang is faster than other air benders it doesn't really change the point.
As for Toph was speed feats does she have? Regardless spider-mans evasion is more than just speed. His acrobatics, wall crawling, webbing, and spider-sense all play an equal role. Toph doesn't have any of that.
What has Spidey done to suggest he can blitz them?
I've already shown you spider-man blitzing people with other spider-powers. He's also blitzed daredevil and deadpool in the past.
Fair enough about the web. But he can still dodge it. Though we've seen firebenders soldifying their fire, Iroh doesn't have feats of doing so.
Can Iroh dodge it? Peter has tagged the likes of iron fist and shadowland daredevil with webbing.
Those are not boulders. They're litteral buildings. Bumi can bend the houses Spidey will be webbing on.
Those houses look like there made of rock. Pretty sure most buildings in New York are made of steel and IIRC Toph is the only metal bender of Bumi's era.
@jashro44: I didn't say Zuko is slower. I said Mako, the guy in the second gif, is slower.
Airbenders don't have any speed edge over other benders. Aang just does. Bumi was capable of keeping up with him not because of experience, but because of his own speed. And I brought up Bumi's fight with Toph to showcase his speed. Toph is also one of the fastest people in the verse.
What has Spidey done to suggest he can blitz them?
Fair enough about the web. But he can still dodge it. Though we've seen firebenders soldifying their fire, Iroh doesn't have feats of doing so.
Those are not boulders. They're litteral buildings. Bumi can bend the houses Spidey will be webbing on.
Spider-Man suit is fireproof and even without his current one he has taken the full brunt of a rocket blast.
@jashro44: Yeah, he's from LoK. 2 explosions occured before that one, but given how it was suprise explosives I still find it impressive.
Aang is the only airbender capable of amping his speed with airbending. No airbender in LoK had that ability and Aang is the only airbender in ATLA. Agility, sure, but people like Ty Lee or Ming Hua (Lok character) are as agile as him the least. And others like Azula or Suki are more agile than the airbenders in Lok.
Toph is on par with Zuko and Katara as far as reaction speed goes. When Azula cheap shot Iroh in the end of The Chase, they all attacked her together perfectly in sync. I cannot post scans from mobile but if you are willing to look it up, type Azula vs Zuko vs Aang and go to the end of the video.
Considering that probably didn't have great control over the power, it's pretty vague IMO. Also, can you post scans for DP and DD blitz?
Can you post the scans? Also, was it the first shot? Cause Iroh is meant to be a distraction either way.
New York buildings are made of steel? Most houses are made of marble in my country. Toph is the only metalbender in ATLA by Eos, but she also opened a metalbending school in the comics (though that's probably not particularly relevant lol).
Main problem with this fight is Iroh's lack of feats. Honestly, Azula coupled with Bumi would do much better.
@anthp2000: I have only ever seen him redirect it.But if you do have a moment of him doing it, it wouldn't change anything since Spider-Man's current suit protects him from that too.
Yeah, he's from LoK. 2 explosions occured before that one, but given how it was suprise explosives I still find it impressive.
Its not that surprising if he has forewarning.
Aang is the only airbender capable of amping his speed with airbending. No airbender in LoK had that ability and Aang is the only airbender in ATLA. Agility, sure, but people like Ty Lee or Ming Hua (Lok character) are as agile as him the least. And others like Azula or Suki are more agile than the airbenders in Lok.
OK but Bumi still cited the fact Aang was predictable as a reason he was able to fight him so effectively.
Toph is on par with Zuko and Katara as far as reaction speed goes. When Azula cheap shot Iroh in the end of The Chase, they all attacked her together perfectly in sync. I cannot post scans from mobile but if you are willing to look it up, type Azula vs Zuko vs Aang and go to the end of the video.
I've seen this scene. At the same time there are also scenes where Zuko after he accidentally burns Toph was able to avoid boulders she launched at him. Does Toph have any other speed feats? Regardless reaction speed=//=combat speed. There is a difference between a quick spontaneous reaction, and actually being able to fight at a constant pace.
Considering that probably didn't have great control over the power, it's pretty vague IMO. Also, can you post scans for DP and DD blitz?
Nothing implies they lacked control. In fact they were able to dodge Peter's webbing and he was unable to tag them.
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Admittedly deadpool wasn't entirely expecting it but the way he responds to the blitz (the comment about Peter's speed) leads me to believe he wouldn't have been able to do anything regardless.
Can you post the scans? Also, was it the first shot? Cause Iroh is meant to be a distraction either way.
Yes to both. He can also fire his webbing in large quantities if need be.
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New York buildings are made of steel? Most houses are made of marble in my country. Toph is the only metalbender in ATLA by Eos, but she also opened a metalbending school in the comics (though that's probably not particularly relevant lol). Main problem with this fight is Iroh's lack of feats. Honestly, Azula coupled with Bumi would do much better.
Looking it up it seems skyscrapers in New York are made out of steel, concrete, glass, and polished stone. Houses are made of brick and stone but there not fighting in a residential area. This is pretty much what the area there fighting in will look like:
Yeah, he's from LoK. 2 explosions occured before that one, but given how it was suprise explosives I still find it impressive.
Its not that surprising if he has forewarning.
Aang is the only airbender capable of amping his speed with airbending. No airbender in LoK had that ability and Aang is the only airbender in ATLA. Agility, sure, but people like Ty Lee or Ming Hua (Lok character) are as agile as him the least. And others like Azula or Suki are more agile than the airbenders in Lok.
OK but Bumi still cited the fact Aang was predictable as a reason he was able to fight him so effectively.
Toph is on par with Zuko and Katara as far as reaction speed goes. When Azula cheap shot Iroh in the end of The Chase, they all attacked her together perfectly in sync. I cannot post scans from mobile but if you are willing to look it up, type Azula vs Zuko vs Aang and go to the end of the video.
I've seen this scene. At the same time there are also scenes where Zuko after he accidentally burns Toph was able to avoid boulders she launched at him. Does Toph have any other speed feats? Regardless reaction speed=//=combat speed. There is a difference between a quick spontaneous reaction, and actually being able to fight at a constant pace.
Considering that probably didn't have great control over the power, it's pretty vague IMO. Also, can you post scans for DP and DD blitz?
Nothing implies they lacked control. In fact they were able to dodge Peter's webbing and he was unable to tag them.
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Admittedly deadpool wasn't entirely expecting it but the way he responds to the blitz (the comment about Peter's speed) leads me to believe he wouldn't have been able to do anything regardless.
Can you post the scans? Also, was it the first shot? Cause Iroh is meant to be a distraction either way.
Yes to both. He can also fire his webbing in large quantities if need be.
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New York buildings are made of steel? Most houses are made of marble in my country. Toph is the only metalbender in ATLA by Eos, but she also opened a metalbending school in the comics (though that's probably not particularly relevant lol). Main problem with this fight is Iroh's lack of feats. Honestly, Azula coupled with Bumi would do much better.
Looking it up it seems skyscrapers in New York are made out of steel, concrete, glass, and polished stone. Houses are made of brick and stone but there not fighting in a residential area. This is pretty much what the area there fighting in will look like:
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In the comics and real life.
Exactly. The thing is that Spiderman is way too ridiculously fast for Iroh even with Sozin's Comet to keep up.
I don't know what @anthp2000 is going on about, but Mako is not at all slower than teen Zuko and definitely not slower than Iroh, King Bumi, or old man Zuko... at all.
Anyway, even with Sozin's Comet, Iroh does not have the mobility or precision to land a hit on Spiderman. With Spiderman's extremely good reflexes and with morals off on both sides, Spiderman will land a swift killing kick to Iroh's face, rendering him useless.
Now, King Bumi will be a bigger challenge due to him literally being able to bend buildings. However, no one knows New York City better than Spiderman does, and Spiderman will be able to leverage his surroundings and sense Bumi's earth attacks. His Spider Sense will tell him immediately that Bumi is not a fragile old man. If Spiderman swallows his reservations about hurting Bumi, then he will evade his attacks (albeit with difficulty), close the distance, and deliver a killing punch or kick.
Granted, Bumi is almost like the Hulk in his sheer power and ferocity, and Spiderman would have a very hard time. However, Hulk is significantly stronger than Bumi and, since Spiderman can survive Hulk, he will handle Bumi comfortably.
As for Zuko with to without Sozin's Comet being fast or versatile enough to do jackshit to make Spiderman do anything more than yawn... lol.
Mako with Sozin's Comet would be a far tougher match for Spiderman than definitely Zuko (teen or old) with it would be, and even more than Iroh would be due to Mako's lightning being much faster than Iroh's. 17-year-old kemurikage Azula's lightning (from the comic "Smoke and Shadow") would be similarly more difficult for Spiderman during Sozin's Comet, like Mako's, than Iroh's would be. Zuko evne with Sozin's Comet is a nonfactor against Spiderman in New York City. Nothing that Zuko has cna make Spiderman evne flinch. He'd sense fire boy, evade his attacks, get in close, and end him in one hit.
Iroh's lightning isn't fast enough to pose a real threat to Spiderman either, making Iroh only marginally more dangerous.
Mako's and kemurikage Azula's lightning is fast enough during Sozin's Comet especially to pose a real threat to Spidey, but he'd win.
Bumi's insane strength and building manipulation would be a big challenge for Spiderman, but Spiderman would end the great-great-grandfather in one hit once he got in close... and he would eventually.
Bumi provides a far bigger challenge for Spiderman than Iroh does (comet or not), but Spiderman beats this team during Sozin's Comet, if morals are off for both sides, 6/10.
Random bump just to remind that it's ludicrous to claim that Zuko or Mako is faster than Spiderman (big LOL at that) or that Iroh and Bumi stand a chance. Even with Sozin's Comet on, Iroh is fodder to Spiderman and gets one-shotted without it even being a fight. Bumi's ability to bend buildings does pose a threat to Spiderman, but Peter ultimately beats him rather easily. Bumi is strong, but Spiderman is way too fast and won't let Bumi lift a building and allow him time to throw it at Peter.
The feat is not an outlier, it's just not what people believe it is. We clearly see Iroh sensing the lightningbolt before it came. Seevral master benders like him can sense their element nearby.
OK.
However, this does not remotely mean Spiderman can blitz. Several characters, some generally slower than Bumi and Iroh, have reacted to explosives at close range. AND, if we are going by fan-calcs, lightning from firebenders' is high match speeds.
What kind of explosives are we talking about? As for fan calcs I don't trust those.
Spiderman has literally reacted much more efficiently to propane explosions. This only makes the case stronger for Spiderman and weaker for Iroh and Bumi. It also disproves your asinine comment about Mako being slower or less agile than Zuko, when in reality, he actually proves himself to be faster. Zuko's is the least impressive here by far, but Mako and especially Korra (given that she used air to tank it point blank rather than just bending away its flames) are much more impressive here.
Mako still pales in comparison to Spiderman's reflexes and speed to reacting to explosions, though, and Korra also comes up short, tho she doesn't quite pale and makes it more competitive, but still loses to Spiderman.
Anyway, this says zero about Iroh and Bumi. Iroh gets one-shotted like fodder by Peter, and Bumi lasts decently long enough to keep Spiderman evading the giant buildings that he throws, but Spiderman beats Bumi pretty easily, too. Not as easily as he fodderizes Iroh, but he does beat Bumi easily. Bumi puts up a (poor) fight, but loses. Spiderman will never allow Bumi to just lift a building and chuck at him. By the time that Bumi gets the building out of the ground, Spiderman is already in front of him and punches him out.
In character, though, Spiderman and Bumi would get along, no doubt.
The Last Airbender speed debate continues to be ridiculous
Spidey has every advantage here besides AoE and he has no need for that one. This isn't his easiest fight, but it is far from his most mildly annoying.
Honestly, the "Spider-Verse" incarnations like Miles Morales, Gwen, etc. are pretty close to comic Spiderman. But yeah, honestly even with Sozin's Comet, the team doesn't stand a chance. I was thinking that Bumi could pose a slight challenge, and I still maintain that he can... but Spiderman wins with low difficulty. I don't think that Bumi would be quite fodder, but he's not holding out against Spiderman ultimately.
EDIT: didn’t see location. Bumi’s AOE will be annoying as well as Iroh’s lightning but in NYC Peter has the familiarity and location to maximize his speed and maneuverability advantage. If he gets close he can do serious damage plus his durability.
EDIT: didn’t see location. Bumi’s AOE will be annoying as well as Iroh’s lightning but in NYC Peter has the familiarity and location to maximize his speed and maneuverability advantage. If he gets close he can do serious damage plus his durability.
On the fence but probably duo
No, in New York City even with Sozin's Comet, the duo is deader than dead.
Any version of Peter solos.. he’s way stronger, way more durable, way faster and more agile. This is an utter mismatch.
Facts. Only Avatar State can beat him, but even that requires a considerable amount of distance to prevent him from getting in close and finishing the job.
Not even close. They won't touch him. He's still way too fast, durable, and strong. Hell, even Venom (despite having a weakness to fire, but otherwise being stronger than Peter) wrecks. Iroh especially is not fast enough in terms of attack output to do shit to Spiderman. Zuko, same, given that he has nothing that Peter can't handle. It'd take someone like Ozai or kemurikage Azula to even challenge him, but even then, he knocks them out.
Any version of Peter solos.. he’s way stronger, way more durable, way faster and more agile. This is an utter mismatch.
You're right, actually, it really is a mismatch. I don't know why I even pretended that the team stood a chance, even with Bumi's help, at all earlier.
You see, Spider-Man is a highly underrated character. He’s commonly misunderstood as some street tier, but in actuality, he’s not. While I’m not saying Peter is anywhere near Thor or Superman tier, he’s quite formidable; when pushed to his limit, time and time again, he proves his strength, speed, and durability. Pick up any Spider-Man comic and you’ll truly see what I’m talking about.
That's a little much. Kuvira's gigantic Colossus, the Avatar State, and maybe bloodbenders can at least challenge him one-on-one. Spiderman is much faster than each, but they have the damage output required to put him down. However, given that he's dodged actual lasers and lightning flashes out the sky before the actual lightning even showed up, he definitely stands a chance against any one of them, as I can't see Kuvira's Colossus landing a good hit on him.
Bloodbenders really need to be quick in catching him in a grip, so that and Avatar State depend entirely on how far apart the fight starts.
But yeah, Spiderman destroys Sozin's Comet enhanced Iroh and even Bumi, especially in New York City.
You see, Spider-Man is a highly underrated character. He’s commonly misunderstood as some street tier, but in actuality, he’s not. While I’m not saying Peter is anywhere near Thor or Superman tier, he’s quite formidable; when pushed to his limit, time and time again, he proves his strength, speed, and durability. Pick up any Spider-Man comic and you’ll truly see what I’m talking about.
Oh, I totally agree. He wrecks this matchup easily. I know that Spiderman is a beast.
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