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#1 Edited by Erkan12 (7531 posts) - - Show Bio
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  • Morals : On
  • Bloodlust : Off
  • Location : New York
  • New52 Flash
  • MarvelNOW Spectrum

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#2 Edited by Erkan12 (7531 posts) - - Show Bio

No one ?

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#3 Posted by Experio (18215 posts) - - Show Bio

Barry

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#4 Edited by Erkan12 (7531 posts) - - Show Bio

Feats for Spectrum ;

Light speed & Explosion

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Phasing through

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Energy blasts

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#5 Posted by sacredweapons (2147 posts) - - Show Bio

flash. Flash moves faster than anything on scales.

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#6 Posted by dondave (41735 posts) - - Show Bio

Speed Force Dump

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#7 Edited by mightyrearranger (1786 posts) - - Show Bio

Is this the name Monica goes by now? And she's up against Barry?

Cause if so, and if Monica's old feats were to still apply (she's the same person, right?), this is still kind of a cool fight.

Question being, could she shift energy forms before Flash hits her?

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#8 Edited by Erkan12 (7531 posts) - - Show Bio
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#9 Posted by ComicsrulebutDBZdoes2 (7566 posts) - - Show Bio

Has new 52 flash shown FTL combat speed?

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#10 Edited by mightyrearranger (1786 posts) - - Show Bio

Nice! This could get intense.

I'll just leave this here then...

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#11 Posted by DarthAznable (16928 posts) - - Show Bio

Flash cannot be beaten here! Don't you know this @erkan12!

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#12 Posted by Dratini1331 (7916 posts) - - Show Bio

Flash with Speed Force BFR, otherwise probably Spectrum. I don't think n52 flash can hit intangibles yet, but he should be able to be energy blasted.

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#13 Posted by dondave (41735 posts) - - Show Bio
Online
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#14 Posted by DaredevilDD78 (1736 posts) - - Show Bio

Flash

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#15 Posted by Blackice709 (1718 posts) - - Show Bio

ummmmm... spectrum ;o

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#16 Posted by mightyrearranger (1786 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm intrigued...

Mainly because I know Monica can react/adapt to energy disruption/counters as well...

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#17 Posted by Killerwasp (16896 posts) - - Show Bio

Flash with Speed Force BFR, otherwise probably Spectrum. I don't think n52 flash can hit intangibles yet, but he should be able to be energy blasted.

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#18 Posted by New_World_Order (14895 posts) - - Show Bio

Let me be different and say Monica Rambeau wins.

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#19 Edited by Erkan12 (7531 posts) - - Show Bio

@darthaznable said:

Flash cannot be beaten here! Don't you know this @erkan12!

Lol. Unfortunately I know. And I decided to work on it...

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#20 Posted by Dratini1331 (7916 posts) - - Show Bio

I haven't been able to keep up with the series, are we talking about him phasing into J'onn?

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#21 Posted by Gizmorino (6317 posts) - - Show Bio

I would like to go with spectrum, i don't think barry can phase through energy blast(yet)

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#22 Edited by Sy8000 (33946 posts) - - Show Bio

Speed force dumpage.

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#23 Posted by Twix_Right_Side (2406 posts) - - Show Bio

I would probably say Spectrum,but it's close

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#24 Posted by jashro44 (49988 posts) - - Show Bio

Does new 52 barry allen speed force dump often?

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#25 Posted by Easternwind (4490 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: Not that I know of , And weird, usually people dont bring up BFR so fast.

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#26 Posted by Twix_Right_Side (2406 posts) - - Show Bio

Monica's new look is so cool,though

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#27 Edited by jashro44 (49988 posts) - - Show Bio

@easternwind Sometimes people think of the easiest way to victory. Speed force dump is sort of like an auto I win button as I understand it.

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#28 Posted by reaverlation (24385 posts) - - Show Bio

Speed Force Dump

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#29 Posted by FlashGreaterSignEveryone (1354 posts) - - Show Bio

this is an interesting fight, N52 Barry has pseudo precog though so he can just bfr her once the fight starts

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#30 Posted by americanspeeddemon (6486 posts) - - Show Bio

Bump

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#31 Posted by diydeath (1267 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:

@easternwind Sometimes people think of the easiest way to victory. Speed force dump is sort of like an auto I win button as I understand it.

Only when combined with Speed Mind. Very,very few characters have the combat speed feats to stop Flash before he speed steals or Speed Force dumps which are the only ways he's edging out a win here since this is new 52 Flash.

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#32 Posted by greenarrow5476 (524 posts) - - Show Bio

New 52 Barry? He could win if he SFD other than that he can't really do to much.

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#33 Posted by LordOfFate (1352 posts) - - Show Bio

Could go either way.

Has Barry Speed Force Dump anyone who is energy?

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#34 Posted by Bones309 (2160 posts) - - Show Bio

Does the Flash have a way to see her if she turns invisible?

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#35 Posted by comic_fan123 (1056 posts) - - Show Bio

flash

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#36 Posted by dami24434 (3879 posts) - - Show Bio

can't spectrum just mimic the speed force? she's mimicked green lantern will power light, gamma ray from she hulk etc..

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#37 Edited by TheOneWhoPullsTheStrings (1847 posts) - - Show Bio

@dami24434 said:

can't spectrum just mimic the speed force? she's mimicked green lantern will power light, gamma ray from she hulk etc..

Gamma ray bursts from she hulk =/= speed force. Which is like a nigh-impotent energy force going well beyond anyone connected to it, and was around before they existed.

You might as well say she can mimic the odinforce, and is going to be skyfather level if she goes near odin once. Or even worse, Phoenix force level if around the Phoenix. I don't think we can do that, so I have to say no. That is the purest example of a no limits fallacy that I have seen in quite awhile I think.

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#38 Edited by Lord_Spectrum (4244 posts) - - Show Bio

@theonewhopullsthestrings:

Actually, Speed-Force energy was stated ON PANEL to be a form of ELECTRICAL ENERGY, - SF it not some divine or mysterious energy, it's simple electromagnetism, and all forms of it are under Monica's control, that's her basic powerset.

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Also lol at comparing it to Odin Force or Phoenix Force, the difference between them is astronomical to say the least, it's like comparing lightning burst to galaxy busting black hole, - SF energy is not anything special really in this case.

And In terms of feats, she could replicate her form into that of Shuma-Gorath's spell as well - i.e. she replicated magic essentially.

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#39 Edited by TheOneWhoPullsTheStrings (1847 posts) - - Show Bio

@lord_spectrum:

I made a comparison because of the multiversal nature of it as almost a static energy, I never said it was as powerful as the odinforce or the the pheonix force. And that comparison works. Just because it is 'composed of a form of electrical energy', does not make it the same. With the right equipment, it might be possible to make a system be able to adopt and be powered to many different types of electrical energy, but that doesn't mean you can usually just throw in some high energy plasma in it just as well. Just because it is similar to electricity, ie: a special form of it, does not make its very unique, and multiversal, incredible power to it.

Heck, when people have obtained the entire power of the speedforce itself, almost like becoming THE speedforce entity itself, they are on an entire different level altogether; and what they can do and why this should be treated as different should be plainly apparent.

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#40 Posted by RampageTheFirst (3654 posts) - - Show Bio

Flash.

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#41 Posted by Chad_Duby (3845 posts) - - Show Bio

Still flash, this isn't even a debate.

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#42 Posted by ProteusXManRxis (4445 posts) - - Show Bio

Flash.

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#43 Posted by Jmarshmallow (12997 posts) - - Show Bio

@lord_spectrum: Calling it just an electrical energy is at best a drastic oversimplification, or at worst a purposeful disregard for a long-standing history.

It’s been called trans dimensional, universal, gone through many different shapes and sizes, and it’s origin and existence is still pretty twisted to this day.

I wouldn’t consider it magic like the user you were talking to, so I agree with that. But At the very least you have to admit that Spectrum has never imitated something of the Speedforce’s nature or scale.

And for the record, I would call a Force that allows its user to transcend time and space to be at the very least comparable to the PF and OF.

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#44 Posted by Lord_Spectrum (4244 posts) - - Show Bio

@theonewhopullsthestrings:

I made a comparison because of the multiversal nature of it as almost a static energy,

Fundamental Forces of the universe like Electromagnetismalso exist in all universes, so not relevant point here i see.

Also pulling this so-called multiversal stuff? Really, when the same can be said about every form of energy which exists in all times and universes like standard magic, gravitation or electricity/magnetism, and yet those energies pale in comparison to those of Odin and Phoenix.

In short many energies including electromagnetic share the same damn "multiversal" nature, - remember just because the said energies are in more than universe, doesn't make it special, rather it makes it more accessible in many places, simple as that.

I never said it was as powerful as the odinforce or the the pheonix force. And that comparison works.

Except, it doesn't (read above), but whatever.

Just because it is 'composed of a form of electrical energy', does not make it the same.

Lol, read what you wrote and tell me how this is not ridiculous?

If it is a form of electrical energy, then it is electrical energy, it's basic logic, - what you are saying here is like saying gamma rays is form of electromagnetic energy, but it is not the same thing as electromagnetic energy, sounds stupid, doesn't it?

On top of that, people with ELECTROMAGNETIC powers have shown control over Speed Force, like Onimar Syn who used EM force to manipulate Jay Garrick's Speed Force aura, showcasing that it is bound by the same forces just like electricity.

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At this point, the electrical part of it, is just mere consistency, and matter you should simply deal with it.

With the right equipment, it might be possible to make a system be able to adopt and be powered to many different types of electrical energy, but that doesn't mean you can usually just throw in some high energy plasma in it just as well. Just because it is similar to electricity, ie: a special form of it, does not make its very unique, and multiversal, incredible power to it.

Again, it was explained to be form of a electrical energy, then it is electrical energy, it is that simple, you are just dancing around this one, buddy.

Also electricity is not plasma (quick google search would already tell you that), electicity is the flow of electrons, small particles of energy, if you didn't know.

Also as mentioned above cut that multiversal bull, many forms of energy exist in many times and universes, doesn't make them something divine or unique.

Heck, when people have obtained the entire power of the speedforce itself, almost like becoming THE speedforce entity itself, they are on an entire different level altogether; and what they can do and why this should be treated as different should be plainly apparent.

Except, the Speed Force users didn't show anything high enough to consider their energy source more unique than let's Green Lantern's Emotional Spectrum (which Monica could replicate) which has actually shown legit planet busting and reality warping feats, unlike SF users.

So basically, you should get it by now, that.....

  • Speed Force is electrical energy bound by electromagnetic forces
  • The multiversal status doesn't mean anything since it applies to pretty much all forms of energy
  • It's powerlevel was never showcased as some nigh-omnipotent cosmic force, like you are trying to pull her.

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#45 Posted by JSDoctor (1200 posts) - - Show Bio

Going with Monica. She might be able to control the speedforce, but even if not she's lightspeed, can go intabgible, manipulate energy and has a bunch of other advantages.

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#46 Posted by Lord_Spectrum (4244 posts) - - Show Bio

@jmarshmallow:

Calling it just an electrical energy is at best a drastic oversimplification,

Except, that's just your opinion, man.

It was explained as electrical energy, and it was shown to be manipulated by electromagnetic force, it's simple as that. You have been given the explanation from comics on more than occassion and now simply roll with it, like it or not, that's how it is.

or at worst a purposeful disregard for a long-standing history.

What history, lol? It was never contradicted to be another form of energy, so what disregard you are bubbling about here? :D

Though it seems from your post you lack understanding as to what nature of the energy means, and the meanings of universal/trans-diemsnional as well.

It’s been called trans dimensional,

Cool, still it doesn't talk about the NATURE of the energies, rather about where it can come from.

For example, Captain Atom draws his energies from Quantum Field, which is extra/trans-dimensional, so those energies can come from trans-dimensional places, but still Captain Atom's powers are still based on fundamental forces of the universe, and still are bound by the same forces (the same was showcased with SF ala Onimary Synn).

What i saying here, is that just because the energy can come from another dimension, doesn't mean it can't be electromagnetic, nuclear or etc.... Captain Atom is a prime example of showcasing that.

universal,

Universal is definition of scale traditionally, not definition of its nature. But if you want to use it as definition of nature, which would be a bit stupid here, i'll remind you that Electromagnetism is a universal force that exists in all universes.

gone through many different shapes and sizes, and it’s origin and existence is still pretty twisted to this day.

It's origin/existence don't mean a thing here, since it can have any origin it wants, still doesn't change the nature of its energies.

On actual note, we have gotten the explanation of what type of energies those are, and it's simple as that, dancing over that ain't gonna change anything.

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#47 Posted by P00TY (5749 posts) - - Show Bio

@jsdoctor said:

Going with Monica. She might be able to control the speedforce, but even if not she's lightspeed, can go intabgible, manipulate energy and has a bunch of other advantages.

Monica is light speed at best. Wally has PICOSECOND combat feats. In a pico second light only travels TWO MILLIMETERS. That is 4/100 of an inch. She will NEVER touch Wally. She can't even see him. Wally has been shown to stop energy and stop time. Spectrum has very little chance.

Scans below show him freezing time and having an entire fight in a picosecond. and stopping an explosion from expanding.

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#48 Edited by JSDoctor (1200 posts) - - Show Bio

@p00ty: Sure, but this is Barry, not Wally, and with only New 52 feats.

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#49 Posted by arctika (942 posts) - - Show Bio

Flash

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#50 Posted by americanspeeddemon (6486 posts) - - Show Bio

@p00ty: Monica has a few ftl feats