Sosuke Aizen vs Itachi Uchiha

ohh.. so you knew about the wrong you wrote... you did that to mock kids with broken english..

wow.. how thoughtful of you...

yeah..lol

http://bleach.wikia.com/wiki/Reiryoku

I doubt this will mean anything to you.

wait... i thought we get our knowledge from reading manga not wikis.

@ssj_god:

Read his logic... have you guys reverted to trolling me or what? Only proves I won the debate.

who's trolling you?

and which logic are you talking about?

@ssj_god:

LOL. Not answering that. Go through the whole thread if you have to.

eh?.. why should i go through the whole read when you can easily point out what u're saying about?

@sophia89: @princearagorn1: *claps* You have proven your points nicely.

Itachi all rounds.

@rulerofthevine:

LOL really? I gotta show people this thread, best joke ever. Good debate.

where's the joke?

Spiritual energy (精神エネルギー, seishin enerugī; English TV "Mental Energy") is derived from the mind's consciousness and can be increased through studying, meditation, and experience.

vs.

"Reiryoku (霊力, Spiritual Power) is a power aligned with the spiritual sensitivity and willpower of the user. It is used by Shinigami and other spiritual beings to provide power for their various abilities.[1]"

-I never stated it's limited to soul reapers

-Differences are clear.

-As for your point about totsuka being cap (captivity I assume) it is not. It removes you from the battlefield so Itachi can win. Lol. Comprehending this does not require a higher level of thinking at all.

I will go to a special ed class tomorrow and ask them if the two energies are remotely similar. Meanwhile, try to make sense of their apparent and grand differences.

LOL @Wiki quotes.

@rulerofthevine:

So he won the argument yet you're laughing at his credentials?

http://bleach.wikia.com/wiki/Reiatsu

This page goes even further. At this point it seems like you don't care how wrong you are and will insist on defending Itachi and believing he will win even though you know he won't.

@sophia89:

You must really know nothing about Bleach... the difference is that they're not the same at all, or even close for that matter. If Naruto's definition of spiritual energy was within Bleach's definition of spiritual energy then yata mirror would have an effect on anything Bleach characters do such as cero, kido, and gonzui. But it doesn't. It's as simple as that. I'm still going to ask a special ed class if they can tell the difference.

The link I posted goes further on the differences.

You didn't even debate against me. In fact I never defended Itachi anywhere in this thread to begin with. I just read through the thread and based on the evidence posted here deduced that the Itachi side proved their points far better than Aizen's. That's all there is to it.

BTW as someone who objectively judges these posts, I can assure you never proved anyone wrong in any post. It's the other way around. lol

The entirety of your argument is based on a silly choice of words that the English TV (not even the canon source) dubs spirit energy as 'mental energy'. This is laughable at best because even the term used in Japanese versions is 精神 (seishin) which literally means 'spirit'.

Please, don't drag me into this. You know d@mn well that you are wrong... everyone does.

http://bleach.wikia.com/wiki/Reiatsu

This goes even further for anyone who doesn't understand that they are different. I'm still going to ask a special ed class if they can tell the difference.

I know you're trolling by the way, I'm feeding you to make you look even dumber and the Naruto fanbase as a whole. It's called counter-trolling. You didn't start off trolling but when you realized how wrong you were you reverted to trolling. That defines a fail troll.

@rulerofthevine:

You're probably just someone's alt in this thread because the differences are so obvious, I doubt anyone would have a hard time seeing them. The fact that the dub calls it mental energy is far from the point, as the two are not even remotely close.

And just because seishin means spirit in Japanese doesn't mean anything, English and Japanese are two completely different languages. So what they call seishin can be synonymous with completely different words in English or have the same spelling in Japanese. Based off of the wiki's definition which is used in the argument that you say won, it is different and has a lot to do with one's mentality.

@drones: Ok sure buddy. I'll just take your wiki quotes and word over the canon evidence other debaters provided. I mean why not.

Japanese is the canon material wikis are not. Don't go around arguing semantics and nitpicking when the literal definition of the word 精神 is spirit. You are the one who started basing his argument on the wikis anyway not the people I said won the fight. In fact you were even boasting about 'winning' some imaginary argument through the use of wikis.

@drones:

"So you debunked my theory because of what the Naruto wiki said?"

Lol, no. He debunked your theory when he posted the scans, and even something as basic as the wiki can clarify the point.

"Well according to that logic I debunked your theory since the Bleach wiki says otherwise."

...Bleach wiki says naruto characters don't have spiritual energy? Cool story.

"I'm not arguing whether or not Bleach and Naruto swords are on the same level."

No, you're not. Nor do you need to, because the point was you saying swords don't have chakra nature so yata mirror is useless, something which is explicitly contradicted on the manga. There's nothing left for you to say at all.

"Itachi is multiversal? That makes no sense."

...exactly. He was using your logic saying itachi carries a separate universe in the jar.

"saying an enity is intradimensional actually makes sense whether it is true or not."

...Not sure if you're aware, but a lot of characters exist which are classified multiversal.

"Continue to make yourself sound stupid while I laugh."

Expert's advice, eh?

@ssj_god: The joke is he's questioning people's knowledge and mocking their English, by saying their arguments are 'baseless'. When they're not baseless at all, but badly worded and ill- informed: anyone who read the first chapter knows that much.

I'm almost sure that Aizen can resist almost any genjutsu that Itachi launches at him (Except, maybe, Izanami). Aizen for a huge majority here.

@drones: "I will go to a special ed class tomorrow"

I believe you. (Your edit isnt fooling anyone, I copy/pasted this right from your post XD)

@princearagorn1

Again, there's nothing to go over there, we go by what's shown.

Your point? You said that they could be mountains but they would be 50m.

..yes, and mountains are as small as 50 meter. When forums refer to mountain-busting, they're talking about an average mountain.

That's not 50 meters, so you've admitted to it being drawn out of scale. Yet you then say that they can only be 50m based on the drawing as a means to downplay them.

The point being, kenpachi's shikai will pretty much one shot aizen. Because even without transcendence, he has higher power than aizen.

Where does this assumption come from? Kenpachi is not a transcendent when busting the meteor. This automatically means that Aizen > Kenpachi. Your opinions cannot change that.

Because what you said would be false with shikai kenpachi? No one is arguing for his transcendence to begin with, as Transcendants can be hurt by those at lower level of evolution, given enough power.

Are you STILL referring to Chrysalis Aizen? It took Isshin, Urahara, loads of prep time, Yoruichi, and gloves that were specifically designed to counter super durability, while Aizen wasn't trying, and they finally managed to crack his cocoon. But caused no actual harm to him. Um, okay?

Refute what, exactly? No one is refuting aizen's transcendence to begin with. What made him dangerous was the power he showed, and kenpachi surpassed him solidly a while ago - whether he's a transcendant or not.

Refute that being a transcendent means that you're >>>>>>>>>>> all non transcendents. You're still under the assumption that all transcendence requires is becoming a Hollow Shinigami hybrid, which is not the case as I've shown you before. Becoming a Shinigami/Hollow Hybrid was a means at trying to achieve transcendence.

Do you see anything that mentions that breaking the boundary between hollow and soul reaper is required for Transcendence? I don't recall anything of the sort, the closest thing being Aizen's speech to Ichigo after Ultra-Fraggor. Aizen was clearly spouting nonsense that entire scene, can you show me where it says that Hollowfication is required for transcendence?

Just because Kenpachi's feat seems larger doesn't mean he's more powerful. DC =/= AoE. Aizen's destructive capacity > Kenpachi's destructive capacity.

If we see man A can punch concrete to pieces, and we see man B can crack cardboard just from making a punching motion in the air, and you said that Man B is more powerful than man A and can replicate Man A's feat, I'm going to believe it.

Aizen's not Bleach's god tier? Do tell me, who has more power than Aizen and Dangai Ichigo? I'm interested.

@jeepeh:

You seem to be a non-biased, knowledgeable debater. What do you think about yata mirror not working because it involves natute transformations, spiritual energy in Naruto and Bleach being completely different, totsuka's blade being BFR and useless, and susanoo being able to break?

They make themselves look bad then act like they're intellectual debaters then agree with my points but then contradict themselves. It's pretty obvious that they're in denial right?

Aizen wins this and it's not even close.

Aizen honestly isn't even in the same class as Itachi.

All of the arguments for Aizen rely waaaaayyyyy to much on conjecture and attempting to incorrectly discredit arguments made for Itachi. A whole lot of reaching here.

Itachi based on feats and arguments presented.

No problem dude. I've been following this thread closely.

I still don't see how ninjas have spiritual energy by the definition of Bleach or even close to it, nor why anyone is letting him get away with saying that. I mean this is just hilarious.

Based off of the facts I presented, everything Aizen does will work regardless of yata mirror so all he has to do is use kurohitsugi to one shot.

If Itachi totsuka's him he cuts through the space and returns. This is actually a good scenario for him because he catches Itachi by surprise then kills him.

Unlimited Chakra is the only thing that allows his genjutsu to work. Shisui's eye? He uses it and he's done for.

I mean seriously, how the hell does the fact that chakra is made up of spiritual energy which is used in the Bleach verse except under a completely different definition mean they are the same? That's like saying a human who has senses can sense just as good as a cat or a dog can even though the cat and the dog are a lot better at sensing than a human. Just idiotic and nonsensical.

Naruto fans just can't accept the fact that Itachi's "perfect susanoo" isn't so perfect against Aizen.

Show me a scan where it says condensed spirit particles (cero/fragor) is one of the nature transformations and then I will agree that yata mirror works.

@sophia89: Having superior fire power, Immortal, Much faster and Kyoka Suigetsu would one-shot Itachi.

@drones: "I still don't see how ninjas have spiritual energy by the definition of Bleach or even close to it, nor why anyone is letting him get away with saying that. I mean this is just hilarious."

Noone else seems to have this problem.

"Based off of the facts I presented, everything Aizen does will work regardless of yata mirror so all he has to do is use kurohitsugi to one shot."

The facts you presented don't back your claims.

"If Itachi totsuka's him he cuts through the space and returns. This is actually a good scenario for him because he catches Itachi by surprise then kills him."

Not while in totsuka's genjutsu.

"Unlimited Chakra is the only thing that allows his genjutsu to work. Shisui's eye? He uses it and he's done for."

Good thing he doesn't need it.

"I mean seriously, how the hell does the fact that chakra is made up of spiritual energy which is used in the Bleach verse except under a completely different definition mean they are the same? That's like saying a human who has senses can sense just as good as a cat or a dog can even though the cat and the dog are a lot better at sensing than a human. Just idiotic and nonsensical."

That is not a good comparison. Think of spirit energy as raw unleaded gasoline and chakra as 2 stroke mix. Regardless, it isn't even relevant here: Genjutsu controls your 5 senses first, then uses that to manipulate chakra. That said, Itachi probably can't manipulate Aizen's powers as he did with Diedara, but he can still completely remove him from reality (mentally)...and Totsuka still one-shots. Whether or not Aizen has chakra has absolutely nothing to do with this.

"Naruto fans just can't accept the fact that Itachi's "perfect susanoo" isn't so perfect against Aizen."

Did you just say that because it sounded cool? You're not really making your side of the fanbase look good :/

The Yata Mirror doesn't just repel different nature transformations. According to the third Naruto Databook (pg. 275) it is a spirit weapon without physical form, and can repel any attack, whether from a material or astral body.

@sophia89:

When did I ever state once that Aizen and Itachi can't interact with each other? That would make this fight pointless and go against the rules even though I believe they can't, I never brought it up as a point on the debate.

My argument was that yata mirror wouldn't work on anything that isn't a nature transformation which would require chakra which shinigami do not possess, despite the fact that spiritual energy in the two series are completely different things. One is used for creating techniques and one is used for seeing ghosts yet he wants to argue that they're the same or even remotely close.

@valarmelkor:

It seems as though another person understands that it wouldn't work for this reason and went to a new reach. Show me the databook saying that man, why the hell would it say it works on astral forces when there are no such things and if so then very limited in Naruto and it has never happened?

According to your logic the Naruto wiki = canon fact so I see you are once again contradicting yourself. Not how I came abput that definition however.

@valarmelkor:

Let's see this ridiculous scan where it says astral bodies can be sealed.

EDIT:

Actually, forget about the scan, I thought this guy understood my point but he has it all twisted. No one is denying that astral beings get sealed. The data book does not contradict what I said.

but yata mirror deflected a normal sword slash..... u're saying a sword slash is a nature transformation?