Sonic vs Metal Bat

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#1 Edited by the_son_of_man (232 posts) - - Show Bio

Who wins, the mercenary or the S-class?

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#2 Posted by AlphaQ (6729 posts) - - Show Bio

Strictly by feats Sonic would win but I think that Metal Bat will be stronger latter on, it's just that his talents aren't the best for fighting Sonic at the minute (no real piercing durability or comparable, clear speed feats). He's more of a blunt force kinda guy - good at dishing it out and taking it.

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#3 Posted by LimitlessEdge (2228 posts) - - Show Bio

Ehh, Metal Bat has it. The dudes fight Garou right now and is holding his own for the most part. Something I can't see Sonic replicating.

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#4 Edited by AlphaQ (6729 posts) - - Show Bio

*Gasps* The new chapter is out!? I must investigate this further...

It is! Delicious.

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#5 Posted by AlphaQ (6729 posts) - - Show Bio

Still saying Sonic. Garou isn't really as fast as Sonic either. Although I think Metal Bat isn't yet showing all that he has in the most recent chapter, hopefully he'll just amp himself with fighting spirit.

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#6 Posted by the_son_of_man (232 posts) - - Show Bio

@alphaq: Where may I find this new chapter?

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#7 Posted by TOATOAA (1196 posts) - - Show Bio

after this few chapters metal bat wins but with a close fight

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#8 Posted by Aimless (2047 posts) - - Show Bio

Sonic isn't taking down dragon level threats.Metal bat eventually oneshots him

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#9 Posted by TOATOAA (1196 posts) - - Show Bio

@aimless said:

Sonic isn't taking down dragon level threats.Metal bat eventually oneshots him

exactly

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#10 Posted by KingWrath66 (101 posts) - - Show Bio

Metal Bat mid diff

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#11 Posted by Oreoghoul (2301 posts) - - Show Bio

Bump

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#12 Edited by iUseMyCajonas (4527 posts) - - Show Bio

Metal Bat because I don’t think Sonic can damage him enough to put him down, Sonic is way faster though so MB gon need a lot of spirit to win. Off feats alone Sonic washes MB.

50/50 lol.

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#13 Posted by AlphaQ (6729 posts) - - Show Bio

Sonic would have to use his cloning stuff to have a chance but Metal Bat probably just counters with his cyclone blows technique, I see MB winning.

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#14 Posted by LyonKnight (173 posts) - - Show Bio

Sonic.

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#15 Posted by Mister_Stark (1532 posts) - - Show Bio

Metal Bat.

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#16 Posted by SoImMe (342 posts) - - Show Bio

Sonic isn't coming at Metal Bat with blunt force like Garou. He has a sword. Metal Bat has no piercing durability, so he gets sliced open.

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#17 Posted by morpheus_ (35068 posts) - - Show Bio

I'd give it to Sonic.

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#18 Posted by Sy8000 (36003 posts) - - Show Bio

Sonic cuts his throat.

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#19 Posted by jashro44 (54798 posts) - - Show Bio

I would really like to side with Metal Bat but I think Sonic wins.

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#20 Posted by cromulor (2647 posts) - - Show Bio

Sonic was superior to pre-G4 Genos with his Fourfold Funeral and Tenfold Funeral, but in his Base it seemed like they scale to each other really well.

Metal Bat, no Fighting Spirit, survived 8(?) minutes in a fight with Carnage Mode Carnage Kabuto in the VGS. When G4 Genos tried that same battle, he got blitzed and curb stomped by Normal Mode Carnage Kabuto. So while Metal Bat doesn’t have enough defined feats in the anime/manga, ONE gave a clear idea of where he scaled Metal Bat to when he made the VGS. I’m not entirely sure if Metal Bat could manage to be faster than Tenfold Funeral Sonic, but he does scale to the higher form of a monster who, in its weaker form, blitzed Genos about as easily as Fourfold Funeral Sonic was. And there is a stat difference between Pre-G4 Genos (used against Sonic) and G4 Genos (used in the VGS and other battles up until Gouketsu). And that was all Metal Bat without Fighting Spirit.

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#21 Posted by Magian (152918 posts) - - Show Bio

If he could counter Sonic's speed then I could see Metal Bat winning this one. But because of his speed, I think Sonic would at least win the majority of the fights.

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#22 Posted by Supermanthor (22700 posts) - - Show Bio

@magian said:

If he could counter Sonic's speed then I could see Metal Bat winning this one. But because of his speed, I think Sonic would at least win the majority of the fights.

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#23 Posted by LogicLancer (1358 posts) - - Show Bio

@cromulor said:

Sonic was superior to pre-G4 Genos with his Fourfold Funeral and Tenfold Funeral.

I don't think so. Genos and Sonic scale to each other at max. It was about to end in a draw because Genos was going to blow the area up and ONE said a fight between Sonic and Genos is inconclusive. That means with or without his Footwork techniques. Tenfold will also not fare better than four due to such a counter attack.

Metal Bat, no Fighting Spirit, survived 8(?) minutes in a fight with Carnage Mode Carnage Kabuto in the VGS. When G4 Genos tried that same battle, he got blitzed and curb stomped by Normal Mode Carnage Kabuto. So while Metal Bat doesn’t have enough defined feats in the anime/manga, ONE gave a clear idea of where he scaled Metal Bat to when he made the VGS.

That contradicts against his feats. I think the Fighting Spirit was still there but not properly generated. Bat was literally losing to Senior Centipede and Rafflesidon without Fighting Spirit. I believe that in the VGS, the fighting spirit should've kept him in the fight but something happened that it did not.

I’m not entirely sure if Metal Bat could manage to be faster than Tenfold Funeral Sonic, but he does scale to the higher form of a monster who, in its weaker form, blitzed Genos about as easily as Fourfold Funeral Sonic was. And there is a stat difference between Pre-G4 Genos (used against Sonic) and G4 Genos (used in the VGS and other battles up until Gouketsu). And that was all Metal Bat without Fighting Spirit.

Actually, Sonic vs Genos was Post-G4.

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#24 Posted by Gaoron (9881 posts) - - Show Bio

Sonic due to speed and sword. Take away the sword and MB wins.

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#25 Posted by mega6382 (2110 posts) - - Show Bio

Sonic due to speed, as Metal doesn't have much speed or piercing durability. Sonic can just rush in and cut him in half and he won't be able to do anything about it.

Metal Bat is quite strong and there's a good reason why he's an S class hero, but he is not a good match up against Sonic.

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#26 Posted by zxc6 (743 posts) - - Show Bio

Nothing really suggest Sonic is faster than Metal Bat or that he can pierce his skin

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#27 Posted by Hey_Thatsmildlyadequate (1813 posts) - - Show Bio

Sonic blitzes.

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#28 Edited by ComicGirl21 (1305 posts) - - Show Bio

Bat stomps.

Sonic has no way of hurting Metal Bat. For all we know, his sword is a normal metal katana that breaks all the time, and even when Sonic is going at his super speeds, his sword still doesn't have dc to even cut through paradiser armor of Hammerhead, who is complete fodder when comparing to even bottom ranked S class heroes like Puri Puri, let alone Metal bat of all people.

Metal bat's skin could not be pierced by both Senior's and Elder Centipede's claws and horns, so a normal sword doesn't stand a chance. Besides, immunity to cutting weapons made of regular steel is a default trait even for lower rank bricks among S class heroes.

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so no, Sonic is not really hurting MB just because he has SOME sword.

Speed wise, Metal bat may be initally outranked a little, but he still was able to react to Garou, so he can't really be blitzed. Garou matched Genos, who matched Sonic in speed. These characters are all in the same ballpark. And not that it really matters, because as soon as Metal bats fighting spirit kicks in, he is gonna blitz Sonic right back and Sonic is gonna die the second Metal bat lands a single hit. And if even Garou couldn't avoid him forever, Sonic sure can't do that neither.

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#29 Posted by NWgzsjUwhM96Y2 (5212 posts) - - Show Bio

What is SoSS's sword's best feat? I don't think he damaged anyone on Metal Bat's level. Metal Bat likely wins.

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#30 Edited by KingCrimson (6171 posts) - - Show Bio

@comicgirl21: You can't just transfer feats across characters because they're lower ranked? PPP's piercing resistance feats aren't Metal Bats. Unless he has feats suggesting he could no sell a Katana to the face, Sonic should kill him.

EDIT: Metal Bat fought Garou before he evolved past Death Gatling and became a whole lot faster, so that scaling is kind of shaky IMO.

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#31 Posted by Vertigo- (17904 posts) - - Show Bio

@sy8000 said:

Sonic cuts his throat.

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#32 Edited by cromulor (2647 posts) - - Show Bio

@logiclancer said:
@cromulor said:

Sonic was superior to pre-G4 Genos with his Fourfold Funeral and Tenfold Funeral.

I don't think so. Genos and Sonic scale to each other at max. It was about to end in a draw because Genos was going to blow the area up and ONE said a fight between Sonic and Genos is inconclusive. That means with or without his Footwork techniques. Tenfold will also not fare better than four due to such a counter attack.

Metal Bat, no Fighting Spirit, survived 8(?) minutes in a fight with Carnage Mode Carnage Kabuto in the VGS. When G4 Genos tried that same battle, he got blitzed and curb stomped by Normal Mode Carnage Kabuto. So while Metal Bat doesn’t have enough defined feats in the anime/manga, ONE gave a clear idea of where he scaled Metal Bat to when he made the VGS.

That contradicts against his feats. I think the Fighting Spirit was still there but not properly generated. Bat was literally losing to Senior Centipede and Rafflesidon without Fighting Spirit. I believe that in the VGS, the fighting spirit should've kept him in the fight but something happened that it did not.

I’m not entirely sure if Metal Bat could manage to be faster than Tenfold Funeral Sonic, but he does scale to the higher form of a monster who, in its weaker form, blitzed Genos about as easily as Fourfold Funeral Sonic was. And there is a stat difference between Pre-G4 Genos (used against Sonic) and G4 Genos (used in the VGS and other battles up until Gouketsu). And that was all Metal Bat without Fighting Spirit.

Actually, Sonic vs Genos was Post-G4.

Metal Bat was losing to Senior Centipede and Rafflesidon because he was being poisoned by Rafflesidon.

I know Sonic vs Genos was after the G4 fight but I don't think Genos had applied the G4 upgrade yet had he? When I say pre-G4 I meant Genos before applying the upgrade, not before Genos fought G4.

And, Genos would've ended it in a draw yeah by blowing them both up, but that's not what I meant. I was talking about speed in that particular instance. Sonic's Fourfold Funeral was clearly too fast for Genos to do anything but a complete area wiping attack. That's why he considered it his only option. Tenfold Funeral is superior to Fourfold Funeral, so obviously Sonic would be even more faster than Genos.

Edit: And also, in that very same talk where ONE said Genos and Sonic would be an inconclusive fight, ONE also mentioned Sonic having the definite speed advantage...

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#33 Posted by bouncyhippo (565 posts) - - Show Bio

Sonic stomps.

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#34 Posted by LogicLancer (1358 posts) - - Show Bio

@cromulor: Oh, so you're talking about speed? Sorry, I thought it was overall.

Metal Bat fought Garou, who could've blitzed him anytime but was too cocky, as shown after that spinning attack was deflected by Water Stream Rock smashing fist. The same Garou nearly lost to 8 A class level fighters. It usually takes around 10 A class to defeat an average Demon. I'm not saying Metal Bat or Garou are not demon level threats, but Metal Bat(without FS) could've lost to, generously, a mid demon. Another mid demon, hydrated DSK, was two-shotted by G4 Genos.

Metal Bat(Fighting Spirit)>G4 Genos. But Metal Bat without FS cannot be > G4 Genos.

OT: Honestly, this will be a pretty close fight. But I'm giving Metal Bat the edge because unlike those like Genos or Garou, Sonic cannot hurt him if Metal Bat gets stronger, and his speed will keep him from noticing it too early, along with his cockiness. Garou was cocky against Metal Bat too and look how the fight nearly ended...

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#35 Edited by cromulor (2647 posts) - - Show Bio

@logiclancer: That was Garou in the process of recovering from being beaten up by Watchdog Man and getting kicked away by Saitama though wasn’t it? I wouldn’t call that a completely fair fight for him. Also, several of those A-Class Heroes like Death Gatling and Stinger are in the “sub-S-Class Tier” as references by Sekingar and Sitch. Those A-Class that hunted him down were some of the cream of the crop.

Edit: And Garou was still good enough after that fight to battle with Genos...

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#36 Edited by Toratorn (8249 posts) - - Show Bio

@logiclancer said:

Metal Bat fought Garou, who could've blitzed him anytime but was too cocky, as shown after that spinning attack was deflected by Water Stream Rock smashing fist. The same Garou nearly lost to 8 A class level fighters. It usually takes around 10 A class to defeat an average Demon. I'm not saying Metal Bat or Garou are not demon level threats, but Metal Bat(without FS) could've lost to, generously, a mid demon. Another mid demon, hydrated DSK, was two-shotted by G4 Genos.

Metal Bat(Fighting Spirit)>G4 Genos. But Metal Bat without FS cannot be > G4 Genos.

What is this scaling? Post-Gouketsu Genos couldn't beat a half-dead Garou who was already trashed, wounded and poisoned by Watchdog Man, Saitama and A-Classes, and he was going for the kill. Metal Bat would have killed a fresh Garou on the spot if he landed a single hit.

Not to mention, Fighting Spitit-less MB lasted 3 minutes against Asura Rhino while post-G4 Genos was two-shot. And MB who wasn't pumped up much was able to stop Elder Centepide's charge with a single hit. MB is superior to Genos, that shouldn't even be questionable.

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#37 Posted by ComicGirl21 (1305 posts) - - Show Bio

@comicgirl21: You can't just transfer feats across characters because they're lower ranked?

Why not? They are exactly the same kind of characters. They are both human brick characters with identical physiology (they are not enhanced with technology, drugs and so forth) they have a small variety when it comes to their trademark moveset, but their superhuman physicals are very comparable (capable of one shotting demon level monsters, tanking their attacks and inflicting damage on dragon levels). And rank speaks of power and ability, so the same exact type of characters one being ahead in rank on the other, is an excellent reason to transfer basic feats like durability across from the weaker to stronger. I really can't see your point.

PPP's piercing resistance feats aren't Metal Bats. Unless he has feats suggesting he could no sell a Katana to the face, Sonic should kill him.

Of course he can no sell katana to the face. He tanked Senior Centipede's claws cutting his face open when he was gassed and he didn't have a single wound except the one he inflicted on himself with a bat smack. A demon level monster who can swim through concrete with his claws has by FAR superior strength to Sonic, who lacks in dc big time.

Also, what feats Sonics katana DOES have exactly? What did he cut that is actually so impressive?

EDIT: Metal Bat fought Garou before he evolved past Death Gatling and became a whole lot faster, so that scaling is kind of shaky IMO.

Garou didn't really evolved dude. He is learning... but he was not monster yet at the time and was not evolving per say. He just said that his encounter with Gatling PROVES he is faster than bullets. I can't really see why he wouldn't be before that. He was able to dodge a shower of bullets from Golden Ball ricocheting all around him with minimal effort, and judging by these things firepower they are easily comparable to high caliber bullets (Golden Ball claimed these can punch through thick steel plates) and I can easily made a counter argument that when fighting Genos Garou was poisoned, wounded and weakened, which would make him significantly slower than when he fought Metal Bat all healthy and rested.

Still can't see an argument being made for Sonic. Bat has cutting durability to tank his sword, and speed to keep up. And ofc, fighting spirit to eventually overpower and blitz Sonic.

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#38 Posted by jashro44 (54798 posts) - - Show Bio

@toratorn: To be fair Metal bat was only going to hit Garou with a cheap shot when Garou let down his guard. And with elder centipede he hit him in the face which was a weak spot.

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#39 Posted by Toratorn (8249 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: yes, but I'm not talking about speed, I'm talking about raw power. Garou himself said that he'd be in trouble if MB's hit connected, and that was before MB almost suckered him.

As for Elder Centipede, that's not the moment I'm talking about. It was shortly after EC emerged and rushed at the rich guy and his son. Metal Bat hit him and stopped his charge completely, and he didn't even hit the face. But even if we talk about MB hurting EC's face, that's still impressive seeing how Genos' blast that hit EC in the face was completely no sold.

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#40 Edited by zxc6 (743 posts) - - Show Bio

Just want to point out that Garou wasn't faster in the fight against the Death Gatling than he was against Metal Bat

In fact he literally stated himself that if Metal Bat or even Tank Top Master(which Garou easily blitz a long time ago) were there he would likely lose

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#41 Posted by jashro44 (54798 posts) - - Show Bio

@toratorn:

yes, but I'm not talking about speed, I'm talking about raw power. Garou himself said that he'd be in trouble if MB's hit connected, and that was before MB almost suckered him.

I can agree metal bat is physically stronger than Genos.

As for Elder Centipede, that's not the moment I'm talking about. It was shortly after EC emerged and rushed at the rich guy and his son. Metal Bat hit him and stopped his charge completely, and he didn't even hit the face.

I thought he did but I would have to review the fight. I'm at work at the moment so I can't look it up.

But even if we talk about MB hurting EC's face, that's still impressive seeing how Genos' blast that hit EC in the face was completely no sold.

IIRC Genos never hit his face. He hit underneath the but part. He didn't hit the face on top of his head above his teeth (the face that's human).

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#42 Posted by MoneyyJunee (1440 posts) - - Show Bio

Metal bat probably

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#43 Posted by AlphaQ (6729 posts) - - Show Bio

Metal Bat is almost certainly faster than G4 Genos, considering his far superior virtual performance against Carnage Kabuto.

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#44 Posted by KingCrimson (6171 posts) - - Show Bio

@comicgirl21:

Why not? They are exactly the same kind of characters. They are both human brick characters with identical physiology (they are not enhanced with technology, drugs and so forth) they have a small variety when it comes to their trademark moveset, but their superhuman physicals are very comparable (capable of one shotting demon level monsters, tanking their attacks and inflicting damage on dragon levels). And rank speaks of power and ability, so the same exact type of characters one being ahead in rank on the other, is an excellent reason to transfer basic feats like durability across from the weaker to stronger. I really can't see your point.

“Same kind of characters” isn‘t equal to being the same character. Sonic and Flashy Flash are the same kind of character, but you can’t transfer Flashy‘s feats to Sonic.

Lol, rank speaks to popularity and perceived power. Atomic is higher ranked Flash, despite being slower than him. King is rank 7, yet weaker than most class C heroes. Before you bring up King only being that high because he’s basically Saitama’s proxy, that also proves my point given that Saitama is canonically stronger than everybody above him.

They‘re not the same character, and you can’t mix & match their feats when there’s nothing suggesting it’s possible.

Of course he can no sell katana to the face. He tanked Senior Centipede's claws cutting his face open when he was gassed and he didn't have a single wound except the one he inflicted on himself with a bat smack. A demon level monster who can swim through concrete with his claws has by FAR superior strength to Sonic, who lacks in dc big time.

Did SC’s claws have any decent cutting feats? He can burrow through concrete, but nothing suggests that’s because of super sharp claws - seemed more due to brute strength (like PPP in fact). It can’t even be clearly seen that SC attempts to pierce MB in their fight. You’re talking about a guy who cut his own forehead with a bat smack tanking a katana to the face? Not to mention he hit himself with a short strike prior to being pumped up, meaning physical strength is a weak argument.

Also, what feats Sonics katana DOES have exactly? What did he cut that is actually so impressive?

It doesn’t need any, given that MB has no worthwhile piercing resistance feats to say that Sonic can’t cut his throat.

Garou didn't really evolved dude. He is learning... but he was not monster yet at the time and was not evolving per say.

Garou was continuously adapting past his opponents long before he became a monster, and IMO it’s heavily implied he did the same in his battle with the A-Class.

He just said that his encounter with Gatling PROVES he is faster than bullets. I can't really see why he wouldn't be before that. He was able to dodge a shower of bullets from Golden Ball ricocheting all around him with minimal effort, and judging by these things firepower they are easily comparable to high caliber bullets (Golden Ball claimed these can punch through thick steel plates)

It does prove it, but that statement isnt mutually exclusive to him adapting to it. Yeah, and he also got tagged by revolver bullets from Gun Gun and arrows in the same fight. Golden Balls projectiles might have been able to punch through steel plates, but it’s conjecture to say that’s entirely through speed. I could just as easily say that there’s no telling how much velocity or force they lose by ricocheting - conjecture.

and I can easily made a counter argument that when fighting Genos Garou was poisoned, wounded and weakened, which would make him significantly slower than when he fought Metal Bat all healthy and rested.

True, but Garou‘s adaption means he gets stronger with each successive battle. So a current, injured Garou is much stronger than his BoS self.

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#45 Posted by Toratorn (8249 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:

@toratorn:

I can agree metal bat is physically stronger than Genos.

Much stronger. IIRC Genos landed multiple hits on Garou and the latter basically walked them off, all while being exhausted, battered and poisoned.

I thought he did but I would have to review the fight. I'm at work at the moment so I can't look it up.

This is the moment I'm talking about.

IIRC Genos never hit his face. He hit underneath the but part. He didn't hit the face on top of his head above his teeth (the face that's human).

If we look at how EC emerged, it seems certain that Genos hit its face, not the bottom of its head. Not to mention, the blast was very massive, so even if he missed the face by a couple of meters, it would still be hit by a considerable part of the blast.

On top of that, he repeatedly blasted EC afterwards and it did absolutely nothing. Even though it was after EC regenerated after Blast & Bomb wrecked it, I doubt that Genos was capable of hurting it prior to regen anyway.

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#46 Posted by jashro44 (54798 posts) - - Show Bio

@toratorn:

This is the moment I'm talking about.

I don't think Metal bat stopped his charge. I think he tried to swing in the face and elder centipede swerved to avoid it.

I don't think the force of metal bat's hit is the reason elder centipede stopped. I think he got startled because metal bat nearly hit his weak spot.

If we look at how EC emerged, it seems certain that Genos hit its face, not the bottom of its head. Not to mention, the blast was very massive, so even if he missed the face by a couple of meters, it would still be hit by a considerable part of the blast.

Personally to me it doesn't look like its hitting his face.

On top of that, he repeatedly blasted EC afterwards and it did absolutely nothing. Even though it was after EC regenerated after Blast & Bomb wrecked it, I doubt that Genos was capable of hurting it prior to regen anyway.

This one could be hitting his face (it does look like it is) but its hard to tell for sure. We also don't see the level of damage his face had. Just because elder centipede wasn't screaming in pain or anything doesn't mean Genos didn't hurt him. Genos stabbed Elder Centipede a bunch of times in the face before he roared.

No Caption Provided

And later Genos does vaporize his face with his ultra spiral incineration cannon, and he just grows it back:

No Caption Provided

Also another point to bring up was that Elder Centipede grew after Bang and Bomb smashed him. So Metal Bat did not fight the same Elder Centipede Genos fought. And we know that monsters get stronger when they overcome death which is what Elder Centipede did basically.

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#47 Posted by ComicGirl21 (1305 posts) - - Show Bio

@comicgirl21:

“Same kind of characters” isn‘t equal to being the same character.

Of course it's not. Sooo...? You are getting on something or not? I can not see your point AT ALL. If these two are from the same universe, share comparable feats of power, are in the same organisation, both share exact same fighting style of "just hitting things real hard" with little to no training, are of the same species, gender, and share all kinds of traits you can possibly imagine... why DON'T absolutely basic feats transfer between them? I mean durability is like a basic physical trait. ppl do it on vine on all threads all the time, I've never seen anyone bring it up as an issue. Especially transferring from weaker to stronger. I mean taking trademark Dragon Ball, would you argue Beerus can't do something Champa can do durability wise? Why? That's just sounds like nitpicking, it's laughable. We're talking about fiction. Being that precise is pointless, there are holes in logic FAR bigger than this in every fiction. Applying logic this basic should be natural. Otherwise we'll just be running in circles around every subject, it's pointless.

Sonic and Flashy Flash are the same kind of character, but you can’t transfer Flashy‘s feats to Sonic.

They are not comparable in any way. Flashy Flash has BY FAR better feats and we've seen direct scalings that set them leagues apart. Flash handled transformed Hellfire and Gale with a one shot, while Sonic was casually blitzed by them. You can see no such contradictions between the two. Not to mention, for the last time, I'm transferring feats of the weaker character to the stronger. Can't be more fair than that dude.

Lol, rank speaks to popularity and perceived power.

They are actually ranked by feats more than anything else. We've seen many heroes moving up after beating strong monsters and performing incredible feats of power. We've never seen said popularity to really influence a rank once in the series. Anyway, I think Puri Puri being slightly weaker than Metal Bat should be obvious to anyone.

Atomic is higher ranked Flash, despite being slower than him.

I don't think you've seen proper calcs for this dude. Most relavant calcs put Atomic Samurai ahead of Flashy Flash in combat/cutting speed, but behind in linear movement speed. Combat/Cutting Speed being by far more important in a fight, Atomic Samurai is still superior to Flashy Flash. Not to mention, that setting as delicate and math heavy stuff as speed aside, he has by far better feats in dc than Flash.

King is rank 7, yet weaker than most class C heroes.

You can't be serious...

Before you bring up King only being that high because he’s basically Saitama’s proxy, that also proves my point given that Saitama is canonically stronger than everybody above him.

King is not given the highest rank because he is constantly dodging missions and trouble. Not because his strength is misjudged. He takes credit for an awesome fight, than stays silent and drops because others outrank him. It has nothing to do with this situation, we are comparing two active heroes.

Of course he can no sell katana to the face. He tanked Senior Centipede's claws cutting his face open when he was gassed and he didn't have a single wound except the one he inflicted on himself with a bat smack. A demon level monster who can swim through concrete with his claws has by FAR superior strength to Sonic, who lacks in dc big time.

Did SC’s claws have any decent cutting feats?

How about Sonic's katana? The fact of how large and fast SC is alone is a proof of how easily it should be able to pierce an elephant with a claw even if it was extremely dull. The fact that he was unable to scratch bat's skin is a great feat. Far ahead of anything Sonic has presented when it comes to cutting power.

Also, what feats Sonics katana DOES have exactly? What did he cut that is actually so impressive?

It doesn’t need any

Lmao, of course, Sonic doesn't need any feats, while Metal bat surviving claw attacks from 10 story high super fast monsters means nothing, and neither does all the other feats he has. Figures.

Garou didn't really evolved dude. He is learning... but he was not monster yet at the time and was not evolving per say.

Garou was continuously adapting past his opponents long before he became a monster, and IMO it’s heavily implied he did the same in his battle with the A-Class.

Adapting yeah... but do you have any direct proof that he increased in stats? I don't think so.

and I can easily made a counter argument that when fighting Genos Garou was poisoned, wounded and weakened, which would make him significantly slower than when he fought Metal Bat all healthy and rested.

True, but Garou‘s adaption means he gets stronger with each successive battle. So a current, injured Garou is much stronger than his BoS self.

This is heavily arguable. He did get better, he was learning, adjusting his style and was getting used to techniques of others, but physicals stronger or faster? I don't think there's any proof for that. Not to mention, that Garou stated himself that poison makes him dizzy and his every move is a struggle, so in his fight against Genos his speed was greatly suppressed. In other words, Metal bat scaling to healthy Garou, from yesterday should be far above Genos/Sonic scaling to Garou who was beaten up and poisoned, especially in the context of the fact that there's not proof Garou was increasing his sheer stats at the time.

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#48 Posted by mynwordmynword (10 posts) - - Show Bio

Good match up. Strength vs speed, near comparable stats, too. Maybe Bat.

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#49 Posted by KingCrimson (6171 posts) - - Show Bio

@comicgirl21:

Of course it's not. Sooo...? You are getting on something or not? I can not see your point AT ALL.

Okay? It's cool if you don't agree, but I'm not sure how you can't see my point that two characters feats aren't interchangeable when they are almost completely unrelated.

If these two are from the same universe, share comparable feats of power

Strength, not durability, and MB's strength comes from inner willpower.

are in the same organisation

Completely irrelevant.

both share exact same fighting style of "just hitting things real hard" with little to no training

Fighting style isn't durability, and PPP's fighting style is different to MB's anyway.

are of the same species

All the humans in OPM must have transferable feats then.

gender

What?

and share all kinds of traits you can possibly imagine

This seems like reaching.

why DON'T absolutely basic feats transfer between them? I mean durability is like a basic physical trait.

Given that getting stabbed in the face or having your throat slit would kill most characters in the series, it's not a basic physical trait.

By your logic, Garou (who is in the same physical tier as PPP and MB) can tank a sword to the face or having his throat slit because basic physical traits transfer, except we know for a fact that he cannot.

ppl do it on vine on all threads all the time

That doesn't necessarily mean they're right.

I've never seen anyone bring it up as an issue. Especially transferring from weaker to stronger. I mean taking trademark Dragon Ball, would you argue Beerus can't do something Champa can do durability wise? Why? That's just sounds like nitpicking, it's laughable.

I'm not familiar enough with Dragon Ball to comment on that, but it doesn't change what I'm saying about the OPM verse in particular.

We're talking about fiction. Being that precise is pointless, there are holes in logic FAR bigger than this in every fiction. Applying logic this basic should be natural. Otherwise we'll just be running in circles around every subject, it's pointless.

That precise? You're literally using one characters feats in place of another's with zero backing. It's even stated in the scan you provided that PPP's skin is so tough it can't be cut -- that's a character specific trait.

If there were a statement made about Boros' race that they all have extra tough skin, then it would make sense to transfer cutting feats across other members of his species. There is no such rule in place for humans in the OPM verse, and there are a myriad of feats to the contrary.

It's not basic logic. They're not even the same type of character and their strength comes from totally different places.

They are not comparable in any way. Flashy Flash has BY FAR better feats

And PPP has better piercing durability feats than MB.

Not to mention, for the last time, I'm transferring feats of the weaker character to the stronger. Can't be more fair than that dude.

Would have no problem with you transferring feats from the weaker to stronger character if there was anything to suggest it was feasible, but I really don't think there is.

They are actually ranked by feats more than anything else. We've seen many heroes moving up after beating strong monsters and performing incredible feats of power. We've never seen said popularity to really influence a rank once in the series.

True, but credit and public opinion play a huge factor in that. King and Saitama are the best examples, but Mumen Rider also rose through the ranks of the C-Class by doing public duties and what have you. Also, some of the rankings just seem plain weird *cough* Zombieman *cough*.

Anyway, I think Puri Puri being slightly weaker than Metal Bat should be obvious to anyone.

Why? You said yourself they're basically the same tier?

In any case, being physically weaker doesn't mean you have the same piercing durability feats. What about Bang? He's stronger than both of them based on rank and his feat against Elder Centipede. Do you think he could no-sell a katana?

I don't think you've seen proper calcs for this dude. Most relavant calcs put Atomic Samurai ahead of Flashy Flash in combat/cutting speed, but behind in linear movement speed.

A prime example of why calcs shouldn't be taken overly seriously.

Combat/Cutting Speed being by far more important in a fight, Atomic Samurai is still superior to Flashy Flash. Not to mention, that setting as delicate and math heavy stuff as speed aside, he has by far better feats in dc than Flash.

The Webcomic proves different. AS got wrecked by Black Sperm, who got wrecked by Garou, and Flashy Flash did far better against Garou speed wise.

You can't be serious...

I addressed this the next sentence on, so I don't know why you're feigning disbelief.

King is not given the highest rank because he is constantly dodging missions and trouble.

Is that ever stated as to why he's not the highest rank?

He takes credit for an awesome fight, than stays silent and drops because others outrank him. It has nothing to do with this situation, we are comparing two active heroes.

King got credit for one-shotting Elder Centipede when Bang and Blast couldn't -- how does that work then?

How about Sonic's katana? The fact of how large and fast SC is alone is a proof of how easily it should be able to pierce an elephant with a claw even if it was extremely dull. The fact that he was unable to scratch bat's skin is a great feat. Far ahead of anything Sonic has presented when it comes to cutting power.

I don't think it ever clearly strikes MB's skin is my problem.

Lmao, of course, Sonic doesn't need any feats, while Metal bat surviving claw attacks from 10 story high super fast monsters means nothing, and neither does all the other feats he has. Figures.

Addressed above. Also noticed how you avoided the point about MB cutting his own skin with a bat smack.

Adapting yeah... but do you have any direct proof that he increased in stats? I don't think so.

Gets tagged by bullets and arrows --> adapts --> slaps away minigun fire.

Proof enough?

This is heavily arguable. He did get better, he was learning, adjusting his style and was getting used to techniques of others, but physicals stronger or faster? I don't think there's any proof for that.

I disagree, personally.

Not to mention, that Garou stated himself that poison makes him dizzy and his every move is a struggle, so in his fight against Genos his speed was greatly suppressed

He was saying that through his entire fight with the A-Class and still deflected every bullet from DG, so his speed was still increasing IMO (at least from his older self).

In other words, Metal bat scaling to healthy Garou, from yesterday should be far above Genos/Sonic scaling to Garou who was beaten up and poisoned, especially in the context of the fact that there's not proof Garou was increasing his sheer stats at the time.

Again, I disagree. I can see your point of view, but personally I see Garou post A-Class fight as faster than his MB fight.

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#50 Posted by LogicLancer (1358 posts) - - Show Bio

@toratorn said:
@logiclancer said:

What is this scaling? Post-Gouketsu Genos couldn't beat a half-dead Garou who was already trashed, wounded and poisoned by Watchdog Man, Saitama and A-Classes, and he was going for the kill. Metal Bat would have killed a fresh Garou on the spot if he landed a single hit.

Actually, Garou evolves after every fight. The half-dead Garou is probably even stronger than the Garou against Metal Bat but that wouldn't be fair, would it?

Not to mention, Fighting Spitit-less MB lasted 3 minutes against Asura Rhino while post-G4 Genos was two-shot.

There was no actual evidence that Metal Bat did not have his FS. He just said that in real life, the FS will revive him. His feats and difficulty against human Garou even with the fighting spirit proves that there's no way he can beat CK without FS. Especially in Carnage mode.

And MB who wasn't pumped up much was able to stop Elder Centepide's charge with a single hit. MB is superior to Genos, that shouldn't even be questionable.

He didn't. In the anime, Elder Centipede swerved to avoid the swing. Metal Bat is superior to G4 Genos. I totally agree. But Post-Tournament is questionable. He did much better against Elder Centipede. Metal Bat did literally no damage while EC was forced to use his regen against PT Genos.

But that's not the point is it? The topic is Metal Bat vs Sonic so let's move on from this...