Sonic the Hedgehog (Archie Pre-Genesis Wave) vs Rimuru Tempest (Web Novel)

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Gokukid2005

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#1  Edited By Gokukid2005

Participants:

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Rules:

  • Rimuru is EOS
  • Sonic has all chaos emeralds and Sword Of Acorns
  • Both start in base
  • Random Encounter
  • Standard Gear
  • Win by Death
  • If the fight is too much for Sonic he gets Shadow The Hedgehog (Archie Pre-Genesis Wave)
  • If the fight is too much for Rimuru he gets Veldanava [True Dragon]
  • R1: In-character
  • R2: Blood-lusted
  • Location: Mixture of both verses
  • Who wins and why?

Rimuru respect thread.

Couldn't find a complete Archie Sonic respect thread so take GameSonic instead. And Explanation of his fate hax.

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Gokukid2005

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DeathHero61

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Archie Sonic is overrated, but assuming you believe in the outliers and out of context feats he should win.

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deactivated-5ee7bc79c5c93

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Archie Sonic is overrated, but assuming you believe in the outliers and out of context feats he should win.

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TheDCfan

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@geelop: @deathhero61: He isn't overrated but he might lose this battle I'm knowledgeable in sonic just explain how strong rimuru is

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@thedcfan: https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/cav-master-unit-cervical-shifter-vs-rimuru-tempest-2085503/

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@yuggoth: It's a close match very close

Rimuru is a lot slower than Sonic but that's not really an issue

In terms of the power they are roughly the same when using the chaos emeralds anyway, there is a hierarchy

They have resistances that counter each other's hax

Strength is irrelevant with these types of characters

The kicker is the fate hax that Rimuru has...

Understand this depending on your answer to this question we will know who wins

What level does Rimuru's fate manipulation act on

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Gokukid2005

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@thedcfan: Do you know about Sonic's One billionth ring? It is a type of fate hax

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TheDCfan

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#9  Edited By TheDCfan

@gokukid2005: I’m aware that’s why I’m asking what level Rimuru’s fate hax operates on

You see the kicker is the one billionth rule makes you an embodiment of chaos like Shadow and knuckles who are embodiments of chaos through unknown means

When you become an embodiment of chaos, the chaos force bestows fate manipulation upon the embodiment so that he essentially always wins, however this doesnt work when the opponent is another embodiment of chaos, knuckles, the echidna tribe, shadow etc.

Going into a super form however bestows even greater protection via fate manipulation

The issue is Rimuru has complete control over fate, but depending on what level of fate as in universal, multiversal etc, it may be irrelevant if they aren’t on the same level

Sonic in comparison can’t control fate but fate always ensures he wins as stated by Master Mogul who had stolen a large portion of the dark chaos force and also had fate manipulation

That’s why I said it depends on the level of power of the fate he controls

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TheDCfan

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#10  Edited By TheDCfan

@gokukid2005: of course if sonic had the sword of Acorns this would be a spite

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RikuYamaha

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Rimuru wins quite easily ngl.

Speed isn't a issue as Rimuru is pretty much Omnipresent.

Strength is eh as Rimuru can destroy a infinite dimentional Universe several times over and he can warp phyics with meer punches.

Durability is a lol. Rimuru has too much stuff to defend himself against.

Hax is lol. Rimuru kinda stomps here.

Fate hax is Usless to Rimuru who allready has it and can negate it.

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@thedcfan said:

@geelop: @deathhero61: He isn't overrated but he might lose this battle I'm knowledgeable in sonic just explain how strong rimuru is

arche sonic is above multiversal and doesn't need scaling to win, rimuru was only universal at best even with hax

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chasekilleen

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@geelop said:
@thedcfan said:

@geelop: @deathhero61: He isn't overrated but he might lose this battle I'm knowledgeable in sonic just explain how strong rimuru is

arche sonic is above multiversal and doesn't need scaling to win, rimuru was only universal at best even with hax

No Rimuru is multiversal lol.

https://imgur.com/a/fW1y6tM

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ComicIncarnate

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If rimuru is only multiversal he loses

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chasekilleen

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@comicincarnate: No of course not. He had many cheat abilities. But Rikuyamaha knows more, so he can tell you much better than me.

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Archie sonic stomps

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ComicIncarnate

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#18  Edited By ComicIncarnate

@chasekilleen: We'll the Chaos force the force offering Sonic protection is a high complex multiversal force if not higher

In Archie Sonic there is a special item tier list or hierarchy

The magic rings

Red star rings

Chaos emeralds

Master emerald

Super emeralds

Power rings

These all turn Sonic into Super Sonic, The power rings turn him into Ultra Sonic

Now these objects can channel the power of the Chaos force

To put this into perspective, Enerjak who was an embodiment of chaos and member of the Echidna tribe fused with the dark chaos force, he then makes possesses people who become his avatar's to interact with the omniverse

The first enerjak avatar who was Dimitri didn't do anything notable with his power, but only because he didn't want too.

Mammoth Mogul who stole the Sword Of Acorns made from a piece of "The Source Of All", (Presence or TOAA of sonic), used the sword which has control over all things to absorb to a limit, Mogul wasn't a God as he was evil so he could only use it partially, used it to drain Dimitri Enerjak and became Master Mogul

As Master Mogul this guy crushed multiverses in his hands which where that infamous feat comes from, he was eventually stopped by Super Sonic, Turbo Tails and Hyper Knuckles, don't let the hyper mislead he was knuckles was at super levels of power, the chaos energy was then put in the master emerald.

A few beat downs later I think it was the third time they beat Mogul with enerjak's power the guy gave up, so he basically said fate is protecting you Sonic so I'm going to wait it out and hope you die.

This was a complex multiversal being, he rose to Godhood multiple times and he said Sonic's fate protection was too strong keep in mind with enerjaks power reality bends to the users will.

Now what is more impressive is the 4th enerjak avatar which was Knuckles, Mammoth Mogul once again used the power of the sword of Acorns and he quote on quote "reached Godhood" again, and Enerjack knuckles beat him up and took his power back, but keep in mind Knuckles is an embodiment of chaos and one of the strongest when compared to dimitri hence why they aren't the same.

Sonic in Super Sonic using the master emerald bashed that knuckles and for years people have looked at their fight and said " it wasn't multiversal nothing was destroyed, but in reality, it's marvel classic IG analogy using complex multiversal power without destroying a planet or universe essentially.

Nevermind in Super Sonic using the Chaos emeralds, brought the two mulitverses back into existence when the super genesis wave destroyed multiple multiverses such as "Maginaryworlds" which is a completely different multiverse to the one sonic lives in, and of course there is also Mega-man's multiverse and the multiverse's Mogul destroyed

So to put it simply sonic is recieving protection from a high complex multiversal force

That's why multiversal won't cut it

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EpicHotFlame

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@eazy2002 said:

Archie sonic stomps

lmao, u say what? RImruru can manipulate concepts of all things which is above what Sonic can do with chaos or whatever

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@eazy2002 said:

Archie sonic stomps

lmao, u say what? RImruru can manipulate concepts of all things which is above what Sonic can do with chaos or whatever

Actually, they can both do that, the only difference is Sonic doesn't have fate manipulation but a higher force is giving him fate protection passively to win this battle you'd need to prove Rimuru is above high complex multiversal

Of course, Super Sonic using the chaos emerald isn't even the strongest Super Sonic there is a hierarch above of items that create stronger Super Sonic forms

And not list is the Sword Of Acorns which is a fragment of The Source Of All which (Presence or TOAA of Sonic), and it has manipulation over all things and Sonic is currently in possession of it but it wasn't listed.

So that makes this a potentially fair match, it depends on what level of power Rimuru functions on, Sonic has resistances to almost all hax imaginable.

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@epichotflame said:
@eazy2002 said:

Archie sonic stomps

lmao, u say what? RImruru can manipulate concepts of all things which is above what Sonic can do with chaos or whatever

Actually, they can both do that, the only difference is Sonic doesn't have fate manipulation but a higher force is giving him fate protection passively to win this battle you'd need to prove Rimuru is above high complex multiversal

Of course, Super Sonic using the chaos emerald isn't even the strongest Super Sonic there is a hierarch above of items that create stronger Super Sonic forms

And not list is the Sword Of Acorns which is a fragment of The Source Of All which (Presence or TOAA of Sonic), and it has manipulation over all things and Sonic is currently in possession of it but it wasn't listed.

So that makes this a potentially fair match, it depends on what level of power Rimuru functions on, Sonic has resistances to almost all hax imaginable.

and Rimuru can neg fate manipulation, bruh, thats fodder to him

he also has probability manipulation and luck manipulation

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Nashiruu

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Rimuru wins quite easily ngl.

Speed isn't a issue as Rimuru is pretty much Omnipresent.

Strength is eh as Rimuru can destroy a infinite dimentional Universe several times over and he can warp phyics with meer punches.

Durability is a lol. Rimuru has too much stuff to defend himself against.

Hax is lol. Rimuru kinda stomps here.

Fate hax is Usless to Rimuru who allready has it and can negate it.

Didn't sonic run across an infinite area in 24 hrs, giving him infinite speed(thus, making rim omnipresent negligible).

Sonic(w/ chaos emeralds) was fighting mammoth mogul, who was destroying an infinite amounts of zones(basically universes inside a multiverse). As for warping physics, well pre genisis sonic is a reality warper...

first part I agree with. Dimensional shields ftw

I sorta agree, but since they both have forms of reality warping(basically the ultimate hax aside from conceptual or probability hax)

Negligible to both parties then.

This isn't me picking a winner(I don't usually have pick winners with characters of this tier). I'm just giving some counterpoints

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@nashiruu said:
@rikuyamaha said:

Rimuru wins quite easily ngl.

Speed isn't a issue as Rimuru is pretty much Omnipresent.

Strength is eh as Rimuru can destroy a infinite dimentional Universe several times over and he can warp phyics with meer punches.

Durability is a lol. Rimuru has too much stuff to defend himself against.

Hax is lol. Rimuru kinda stomps here.

Fate hax is Usless to Rimuru who allready has it and can negate it.

Didn't sonic run across an infinite area in 24 hrs, giving him infinite speed(thus, making rim omnipresent negligible).

All well and good but infinite speed doesn't equal omnipresent. Infinite speed is below illrelevent speed and above that is omnipresent.

Sonic(w/ chaos emeralds) was fighting mammoth mogul, who was destroying an infinite amounts of zones(basically universes inside a multiverse). As for warping physics, well pre genisis sonic is a reality warper...

all well and good but Rimuru can destroy a universe with infinite dimentions in it, and Rimuru can destroy a infinite set of theses universes. And for warping phyics, thats a passive punch from Rimuru. And you would need to prove the infinite amount of zones.

first part I agree with. Dimensional shields ftw

Yeah lol, he also got Absolute Existence which is a instant win.

I sorta agree, but since they both have forms of reality warping(basically the ultimate hax aside from conceptual or probability hax)

Rimuru not only has reality warping, but also conceptual, probability and etc.

Negligible to both parties then.

This isn't me picking a winner(I don't usually have pick winners with characters of this tier). I'm just giving some counterpoints

Its fine. But Sonic doesnt win this.

Here are a bit of Rimurus hax

As a slime, Rimuru does not require sleep, he does not need food, he does not need blood and he does not need oxygen.

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this means he can outlast most of his opponents simply by being a special species.

he is also a Demon,which means not only are they spiritual life forms, but Demons cannot truly die, as they can merely come back in a few hundred to thousand years.

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He's higher then true dragons who can have their conceptual sales destroyed.

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He's actually so damn hard to kill, that just his will can bring him back.

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but this is really just passive due to being a certain species. Rimuru gained two unique abilities due to being reincarnated. one is due to him being a slime, which he gained the unique ability of [Predator]

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[Predator] gains 5 unique abilities known as Skills. theses skills include......

Predation, which enables Rimuru to draw the target into [Stomach]

Affected Targets, which enables Rimuru to Eat anything, including skills and magic.

Analysis, which enables Rimuru To analyze a opponent through Predation. he can copy items, copy techniques, and copy skills once Analyzed.

Stomach, which enables Rimuru to store anything unaffected by predation. theses things are completely unaffected by time.

Mimesis, which enables Rimuru to mimic targets though predation.

Isolation, which enables Rimuru to store harmful elements that are unable to be analyzed. if they are rendered harmless, they are converted to energy.

but this evolves into a more powerful subset known as gluttony.

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he can use decay, which consumes people.

he can use Supply, which is going to be useful later on.

food chain, which allows rimuru to acquire skills from all his subordinates.

-

His other unique ability is what i mentioned before, which is Great sage.

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Great sage Enables Rimuru to use the following abilities.

Thought acceleration- which raises perception by 1000 times more then usual.

Analytic identification- which enables Rimuru to analyze a target perfectly.

Parallel Calculation- Automatic analysis upon a opponent.

chant canceling- does not need to speak when casting magic.

and finally, omnipotence, which enables rimuru to understand EVERYTHING he sees if its not concealed by the world.

but this skill was upgraded to [Wisdom King] which basically ups his skills by 1000X

this upped his Thought acceleration to 1000 times to over 1,000,000X

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but he can upgrade it even more to go over 10,000,000X

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he can also use this in a offencive form by overloading the opponents brain with torture of 10 days every second.

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but his evolution does not stop there, as it further evolved into [Manas:Ciel]

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this power upgraded all of his powers by 1000X as well. but ciel is also conscious of thought and is able to act upon its own and helps rimuru if needed.

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-

Hes able to create clones that are absolute copies of himself.

Rimuru has access to one of his skills, called [Covenant King Uriel]

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this gives rimuru the following abilities^

for the 1st one, it is basically instant teleportation.

for the 2nd one, it is dimensional barriers used to block physical, spiritual and conceptual attacks.

for the 3rd one, it is a ultimate prison which seals one into imaginary space.

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the deal with this is that its impossible to escape with physical attacks. while with a spiritual form, you have a 1% chance of escaping. while trying to reincarnate is a 3% chance of escaping.

For the 4th one, he can absorb, release and control all forms of heat and inertia.

He also can slice through dimensions with ease using this skill.

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That is all with this ability, so let's get into [Storm Dragon Veldora]

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This basically means he can summon the Storm dragon Veldora to help fight him, in which this dragon has multiversal types of probability manipulation. the dragon can also survive energies as strong as black holes.

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this will help his summon survive anything the opponent can throw at him, but let's continue with his other abilities.

one of his most powerful skills is called [Void God Azathoth]

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this gives him the following abilities.

with the ability of imaginary space and turn null, Rimuru is able to create and destroy Tens of THOUSANDS of universes with a little bit of turn null.

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with this, he can create different universes upon a whilm.

he also has [Multiple existence] where he can live upon his own clones simultaneously if he chooses.

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so destroying one rimuru is already hard enough, you'll have to destroy ALL versions of rimuru to actually defeat him.

With void god, rimuru is able to travel anywhere within space and time on a whim if he so chooses.

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but that is enough upon the void god, lets get into ANOTHER skill he has.

he also has a ability called [Harvest Lord Shub Niggurath] which grants him the following abilities below

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for a simple explanation on what the abilities do-

Skill Creation - Information from [Food Chain] and [Analysis] are used to make new skills.

Skill Duplication - Copies of obtain skills

Skill Gifting - The abilities to grant skills to a target. Can also remove granted skills.

Skill Bank - Can store skills.

Normal Skills - Universal Perception, Great Demon Lord’s Haki, Universal Body Transformation

Combat Skills - Law Manipulation, Elemental Alteration, Telepathy Control, Clairvoyance

that is it.

he has [Evil Dragon Lord Azi Dahka] which grants him the following abilities.

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it can also give rimuru the ability to absorb energy and clone himself infinite times.

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--

He also has a ability which allows him to speak telepathically.

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he can use Area Boundary, which Seals thermal energy and prevents any heat from leaking out.

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he can turn into a cloud and use [Freya State], which burns the enemy from the inside.

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he can absorb instant death magics.

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he can create lasers from using light partials in the air to cause lasers that reach 10000 degrees.

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he can stop time

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this allows rimuru to move in stop time, as his speed is increased 1 million X

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only spiritual beings can move within the Time stop

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-Resistances

he has resistance to piercing and physical damage.

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-

one of it is shions, which has the ability to rewrite fate.

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he also gained the ability to have full control over causality.

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now from the Ability he gained from Diablo.

he gained the ability of paradise time, which is an ability that stops time for Diablo or Rimuru and his opponent(s) and they are the only one conscious in a separate world. Only Diablo or rimuru can use abilities in this domain

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within this, he can use seducer, which it becomes absolute in Paradise Time, and it’s an ability that allows Diablo or rimuru to control the life and death of his opponent based on mental strength. he can also interchange reality with illusions within this.

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he can also use temptation, which can control the minds of people on how he sees fit.

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-

from from the abilities he gained from Veldora.

hes able to change probability from 50% to 100%

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now since im not gonna drone on about his abilities, lastly, lets see the abilities he gained from Zegion.

hes able to turn reality into allusions and illusions into reality.

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He's also able to thin his existence probability, making him virtually unhittable even in a situation in which makes it impossible to evade.

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He has Existence Probability Fluctuation. This uses [Parallel Existence] + [Probability Manipulation]. With it, Veldora/Rimuru is able to shift his essence into a clone momentarily.

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And his other, [Fertile Paradox]. By using other beings (people he decides are opponents) as an energy source, Veldora/Rimuru can turn a destroyed area into a lush, and highly fertile forest. This ability encases the area into darkness and targets are picked as Veldora/Veldora decides.

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He has Tyrannous Lord Susano, which gives shion/Rimuru full control over causality.

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he has the ability of Perfect Memory, which is a spiritual skill that lets someone come back no matter how many times they die. Basically endless reincarnation.

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Along with this skill, he can't be mind controlled or even feel spiritual damage as he can live as a spirit, and can deal spiritual damage.

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he has a ability called minus break, which steals energy upon contact, even if it is blocked.

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he even has a odachi, which is a one shot kill sword which kills the target in a single hit.

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He is completely immune to all magic attacks thanks to Magic Nullity.

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Magic Nullity can also be used offensively to bypass defenses for example. It has shown multiple feats of doing this.

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He is Completely immune to Ruminas' Death Blessing, an ability which reverses the life and death of a target granting instant death.

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his fists alone could cause destruction on levels that warp the laws of physics, the special vibrations caused would interfere with the earth and the atmosphere, resulting in storms of destruction.

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Just a few of Dagruel/Rimurus abilities include Hardened Defense, Weapon Destruction, Magic Immunity, Ignore Defense, and more.

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He's able to turn himself into A black hole which destroyed everything in a isolated space(basically another dimention). The blast was apparently so powerful that it slipped past the dimention it was in and was affecting the world they normally resided in. It was noted as "Transcendent destruction".

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He has a skill called [Dimension Ray] as with the movement of his fingers, he lets loose a attack that cuts dimensions and ingores the durability of a person or object.

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Likewise with his dimention skill, he has a move called [Dimensional Storm] which is a dimensional storm of rainbow color energy that can swallow and erase someone’s existence entirely.

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Also, not only is Zegion/Rimuru a spiritual life form, but he is a Water Elemental Spiritual life form, which gives him law manipation over water. With this, even of his body and soul are destroyed, he can revive via the water molecules in the area.

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Here are some more of his abilities.

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Has a skill called [Zero Field Ray]. a wave that brings all living being’s pulse to 0, and turns all energy to 0.

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He can attack beyond space/Time.

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Honestly

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ComicIncarnate

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@rikuyamaha:

Nothing in the portion of the respect thread mention you put in the spoiler block buts Rimuru is at multiversal

Destroying 1000 universes isn't the same as destroying infinite universes

Or countless multiverses like Master Mogul with Dimitri enerjak's power

Nor can he Neg Fate manipulation, he has better fate manipulation then the people in his verse but he is merely using Fate manipulation to cancel fat manipulation

I came into this not knowing Rimuru, but from what I see he is a low multiversal at best not a casual multiversal and definitely not a complex multiversal like Mxy for instance

Rimuru has no feats that suggest he can counter the fate protection on sonic bestowed by the Chaos force which is a high complex multiversal entity if not higher, Rimuru has never canceled out fate manip with fate manip of this caliber

Everything Rimuru has is easily countered by Sonic's resistances

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ComicIncarnate

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@comicincarnate said:
@epichotflame said:
@eazy2002 said:

Archie sonic stomps

lmao, u say what? RImruru can manipulate concepts of all things which is above what Sonic can do with chaos or whatever

Actually, they can both do that, the only difference is Sonic doesn't have fate manipulation but a higher force is giving him fate protection passively to win this battle you'd need to prove Rimuru is above high complex multiversal

Of course, Super Sonic using the chaos emerald isn't even the strongest Super Sonic there is a hierarch above of items that create stronger Super Sonic forms

And not list is the Sword Of Acorns which is a fragment of The Source Of All which (Presence or TOAA of Sonic), and it has manipulation over all things and Sonic is currently in possession of it but it wasn't listed.

So that makes this a potentially fair match, it depends on what level of power Rimuru functions on, Sonic has resistances to almost all hax imaginable.

and Rimuru can neg fate manipulation, bruh, thats fodder to him

he also has probability manipulation and luck manipulation

It's not fodder, its simply the people in his verse are weaker then him, so much so that his fate manipulation negates his opponents

However in the Sonic verse Master Mogul with his Precognition, Clairvoyance, 6th sense and fate manipulation on Complex Multiversal levels as the guy was crushing millions of multiverses in his hands was defeated by Super Sonic and even commented his Fate protection from the Chaos force was beyond all the fore mentioned abilites

Upon reading the respect thread it is clearly abundant that Rimuru is a low multiversal destroying thousands of universes isnt the same as destroying infinite universes.

Mogul with Dimitiri Enerjak's dark chaos force power destroyed millions of multiverses, Enerjack knuckles beat up Mogul after he drained him and went to full power, he didn't realize Enerjack knuckles was stronger then Dimitri enerjak and bashed Mogul and took his power back only to be beaten by Super Sonic but using the Master Emerald

Either way Super Sonic with the chaos emeralds beat Mogul alongside Hyper Knuckles and Turbo Tails making him still Complex multiversal as he is 1/3 over millions of times multiversal as Mogul destroyed millions of multiverses on a whim.

And when the super genesis wave destroyed several multiverses, Super Sonic reality warped mega-man's multiverse and his own multiverse back into existence, keep in mind the Chaos emeralds were used to destroy countless multiverses in the first place by creating the super genesis wave so Super Sonic scales to that.

Overall Rimuru lacks the power to negate the Chaos force's fate manipulation, keep in mind the complete chaos force is above enerjak and above mogul and provides passive fate protection regardless of the form he is in, Mogul in his 4th or 3rd time achieving Godhood explained that even with all his power and abilities he was 100% sure sonic even without the chaos emeralds was going to beat him somehow.

Rimuru lacks the raw power to contend to stop Sonic.

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EpicHotFlame

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@comicincarnate: yes few ppl in rimuru's verse has fate manipulation and yet Rimuru can neg it, thats why rimuru is the most powerful in the verse, he is above the other hax in his verse, not to mention he has luck manipulation and probability manipulation. Does Mogul have feats of negging fate manipulation before? if he hasnt, why do u expect him to neg someone else's fate manipulation.

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ComicIncarnate

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@epichotflame: @epichotflame:

Sorry for the late reply

Being connected to the Chaos force in general gives you fate protection by the chaos force, however the level of protection stems from how you became an embodiment of chaos or connected to the chaos force.

Enerjak not only has passive Fate protection he can quite literally do anything, his power is limited to only his imagination if scans are required explaining enerjak's power I can get them from the complete sonic encyclopedia which is an actual thing

Master Mogul stole this power from Enerjak's avatar and killed the Ancient Walkers for reference the Ancient Walkers are the ones who gave Sonic the blessing of the one billionth ring and the fate protection whoever killing them used up most of the power

Super Sonic took down Enerjak knuckles who beat Master Mogul so unfathomable amounts of fate protection

Enerjak and Mogul both have passive fate protection however enerjak has the added bonus of twisting all things in existence to how he wants them to save a few items like The Sword Of Acrons, The higher dimensional plane of the Chaos force, other embodiments of chaos and possibly more.

So in short Enerjak, Ancient Walkers, Mogul and Sonic can use fate manipulation both actively and passively, with Sonic having the strongest Fate manipulation of the following to the point not even Enerjak can oppose him however im explicitly talking about Enerjak avatars, the real enerjak which resides in the higher dimensional realm of the chaos force is only apposed by the positive chaos force which protects sonic.

So ultimately it didnt matter in the first place who had fate manipulation, Sonic is being supported by a higher dimensional force protecting his fate which is stronger than the non-avatar enerjak, and avatar's like Knuckles Enerjack beat up Mogul at full power, same Mogul who can bend reality and all things fate included to his will and destroying millions of multiverses with his bare hands as a display of power.

I can even mention people like Illumina who were killed by the super genesis wave who is a multiversal Goddess but don't let that fool you she is an abstract existence representation of dreams, she even created her own multiverse known as Maginaryworld and created the precioustone oneword that supports the existence of higher dimensional realms, she literally created a multiverse with concepts like fate, probability, gravity etc.

I can talk about sigma-3 who had the power of one multiverse etc.

Overall if you can create a multiverse you have a degree of fate manip and sonic has done that when he reality warped/recreated two multiverse back into existence.

Its stupidly overpowered concepts like the chaos force that sonic ran out of bad guys and Archie Sonic had to be canceled, they made him to power full in his own canon, there are bigger fish in other fictional stories but they can't just dump sonic in other stories unfortunately.

It's a lot to take in I don't mind providing scan but it'll take a while. But do research as well, I'm the type to want to avoid as much work as possible.

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RikuYamaha

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@rikuyamaha:

Nothing in the portion of the respect thread mention you put in the spoiler block buts Rimuru is at multiversal

What do you mean by this?

Destroying 1000 universes isn't the same as destroying infinite universes

now see, this is where most people dont understand this feat.

No Caption Provided

Each of theses 10,000 universes has the exact same soul circulation.

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And Rimuru is massively above this circulation of souls.

even more proof is in the post I sent resolving Rimurus Turn null as it said his imaginary space is infinite. The energy accumulated from Turn null was with 1 use able to do that several times. It does show Rimuru going into every possible universe in his own Verse and ruling and watching over the multiverse with his clones.

This is further supported by Veldanava

Bored and lonely, Veldanava decided to create a world to entertain himself and find company. First, he created the multiverse, though he lost his Skill Turn Null due to his finite "stomach." After that, he proceeded to create a world and several parallel worlds within that multiverse. And just as he wished, living beings with their own wills began to sprout. Even more so, soon, humans came about harboring souls of free will and possessing high intellect. Veldanava enjoyed the lifestyles of the creatures but these humans gave him elation. However, because of humans possessing emotion, they would soon end up warring against each other if he left them unattended. Soon enough, after experimenting about with several other worlds, each having different kinds of growth based on the slight differences he conjured. Veldanava realized that war was inevitable and that it was some kind of necessary evil for his creation's growth. If Veldanava wanted, he could easily force the suppression of emotions and prevent war, but this would rob humans of their free will. It would become a dystopia where all beings were (treated) equal but nobody had free will, which was not the kind of world he wanted. The world was cruel, but it gave you everything -- such is the world Veldanava sought

Meanwhile, he carefully chose humans with matured souls and created Angels and Daemons as their managers, depending on their alignments. He created a system where souls could circulate across all dimensions. However, he also made sure that the managers could not intervene too much and thus appointed the role of observer to three specific individuals: Dino from the Angel side, Ramiris from the Spirit side, and Guy from the Daemon side.

Or countless multiverses like Master Mogul with Dimitri enerjak's power

Firstly, i need a feat for this. Secondly Rimuru is above it as shown above.

Nor can he Neg Fate manipulation, he has better fate manipulation then the people in his verse but he is merely using Fate manipulation to cancel fat manipulation

Lol what? Fate manipation Rimuru allready negated before. Plus he could simply downgrade Sonics own fate anyway or put him to sleep.

No Caption Provided

I came into this not knowing Rimuru, but from what I see he is a low multiversal at best not a casual multiversal and definitely not a complex multiversal like Mxy for instance

Then you dont know much about Rimuru if you think hes low Multiversal.

Rimuru has no feats that suggest he can counter the fate protection on sonic bestowed by the Chaos force which is a high complex multiversal entity if not higher, Rimuru has never canceled out fate manip with fate manip of this caliber

He is literally above multiversal gods in his verse. I dont see why he cant.

Everything Rimuru has is easily countered by Sonic's resistances

NLF and you'd have to prove it. Plus Rimuru could degrade his abilities or put him to sleep.

No Caption Provided

Also also, really nothing Sonic can do can hurt or affect Rimuru anyway.

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@comicincarnate: tbh...debating for/against ppl on this tier gives me headache lol...but anyways, from what u told me, i actually dont know, they both have counters to each other

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#30  Edited By ComicIncarnate

@rikuyamaha:

Dude your gonna need to explain properly with context as I have so there aren’t misunderstanding

I don’t see how Null turn having infinite universe and ruling it is impressive

I explained it to EpicHotFlame there is a being called Illumina she is a god and embodiment of imagination

She created the precioustone one word which supports the existence of multiple extra dimensional realms the lowest of these realms is MaginaryWorld which has infinite universes

Illumina who is a multiversal+ to low complex multiversal was killed by the Super Genesis wave which was created by the chaos emeralds

Illumina from what I here about Rimuru is his equal both capable of creating infinite universes and other extradimensional realms and more with abstract non-corporal existences, she has all the same hax as Rimuru as she is literally a god of imagination and creates concepts like space, time, Fate, probability.

Archie Solaris as well just by existing just by existing oneshotted the universe he existed in just by existing and destroyed all timelines supposedly, this is stated in the Archie sonic Encyclopaedia which is basically a guidebook, it’s not shown on page.

So saying Sonic doesn’t have resistances when he has taken down Enerjak, Mogul and chaos emeralds have killed Illumina who is also only limited to her imagination isn’t a no-limits fallacy sonic really does have resistances to Rimuru’s hax.

Sonic is too much for Rimuru, and will kill him using his raw power, just because no one in his verse has done it doesn’t mean sonic won’t, nevermind only Mongul has ever harmed sonic in his Super Sonic form, edit: and super shadow.

You also have Yet to show Rimuru is even on Mogul level, keep in mind he was beaten by Chais Knuckles The Living Chaos Emerald who then got another amp and became Enerjak Knuckles, anyway here is Mogul destroying millions of multiverse zones.

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Gokukid2005

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  • If the fight is too much for Sonic he gets Shadow The Hedgehog (Archie Pre-Genesis Wave)
  • If the fight is too much for Rimuru he gets Veldanava [True Dragon]

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RikuYamaha

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@rikuyamaha:

Dude your gonna need to explain properly with context as I have so there aren’t misunderstanding

I don’t see how Null turn having infinite universe and ruling it is impressive

I allready explained. For more context.

Rimuru was able to Devour Extra Dimentional Primordial energy that was infinite and used it via Turn Null and the Movius System. Ill send the quote.

"Infinite institution Mobius System- It is a system of dreams created by genius scientist Almubain.

Continue to produce energy permanently in an endless cycle by a theory different from the nucleus."

 "But, What is Mobius System?

 What kind of joke is a black hole like a power reactor?

 I do not understand what it means.

 Is the scientific power of this world so terrible?

 I mean, how do you do that with energy -

"That is, in one kind of phase conversion power reactor -"

 Briefly, easy to understand, please briefly.

"... .... Simply put,Gravity Collapse It is a mechanism that utilizes the phenomenon that when the substance falls into it, its mass is reduced to energy. twoTorus'torus'It seems that it was thought that mutual interference interferes with using, and in theory it can generate energy indefinitely. However it is far from perfect, it seems that it is a dangerous and extreme substitute "

Ciel's explanation is difficult.

Sure enough, it was a brief explanation, but I understood somehow.

In other words, it was an unfinished item.

The engine is not perfect, the engine has runaway and it got in the present state - it is enough if you can understand it.

If this continues to runaway with the scale expanded as it is, it will swallow this universe.

If so, will it affect other dimensions?

"No, it does not affect other dimensions. Only this universe loses its growth rate and it only results in zero " "it's simple. To put it this way, Gluttonous King Beelzebub It is a phenomenon similar to. Energy dissipation to minus, not energy release to plus is a problem. However, the action is the same. Since energy has direction, it would be fine if you manipulate it - "

"It's a supposition, but My Skill Gluttonous King Beelzebub If it was runaway, I think it will be like it is now.

So, I can understand how to deal with it.

Whether it is expansion or disappearance, force has direction. There is a flow in energy, so stop the flow.

In other words, it is time stop.

If we stop the time, the negative energy that continues to expand also stops."​​​

This mobius system can create infinite energy. This energy on rampage was going to collapse the universe bringing it to Zero. Sounds a turn null feat to me. This would lead Rimuru having Infinite supply of this energy that he absorbed

Rimuru is massively above the Great Spirit which creation derives from.

"In nothingness, power finds its fill, which is a holy spirit. The great holy spirit is the source of power. Among these, Light and Darkness, the two great spirits who came to exist at the same moment as the world. But, the world was without form, an ephemeral existence. Light and Shadow, Darkness and the Light; two existences that shall never interweave.

One day, the great spirit Time was born, the child of Light and Darkness. And thus the world began to move. The moving world spun, without purpose, around itself. Inside the flowing currents of life and death. Earth, Water, Fire, Wind, and Sky; these five great spirits were born. And since then, these were the great eight spirits.

Until the light consumes the world, erasing darkness. Until a new spirit is born, erasing all. Life and death, heralding the coming end of the world.

In other words, first, the holy spirit had existed, and it gave birth to the other eight. Great spirits did not have egos, they were masses of energy.

Sentient spirits are few in number and are called high-rank spirits.

The Fire Spirit was just an excess fragment of the entire mass. Like a monster, this fragment gained self-awareness. And this self-aware fragment of pure energy thus became a monster.

Generally, light and darkness spirits have the highest social standing and are the highest grade of spirits."

And Rimuru and several people are above this

I explained it to EpicHotFlame there is a being called Illumina she is a god and embodiment of imagination

Cool. Rimurus above thoses concepts.

She created the precioustone one word which supports the existence of multiple extra dimensional realms the lowest of these realms is MaginaryWorld which has infinite universes

Cool. Rimuru is above a infinite dimentional Universe and multiverse.

Illumina who is a multiversal+ to low complex multiversal was killed by the Super Genesis wave which was created by the chaos emeralds

Mhhhh. You'd have to prove the low complex multiversal feat. Eitherway, it won't kill Rimuru due to soul corridor.

Illumina from what I here about Rimuru is his equal both capable of creating infinite universes and other extradimensional realms and more with abstract non-corporal existences, she has all the same hax as Rimuru as she is literally a god of imagination and creates concepts like space, time, Fate, probability.

Firstly, prove she has the same hax and is on the same level, because your claiming stuff without supporting it. And being a god of imagination is fodder to Rimuru who's above The literal god who created the multiverse of his verse.

Archie Solaris as well just by existing just by existing oneshotted the universe he existed in just by existing and destroyed all timelines supposedly, this is stated in the Archie sonic Encyclopaedia which is basically a guidebook, it’s not shown on page.

How is that impressive exactly?

So saying Sonic doesn’t have resistances when he has taken down Enerjak, Mogul and chaos emeralds have killed Illumina who is also only limited to her imagination isn’t a no-limits fallacy sonic really does have resistances to Rimuru’s hax.

Again, no limit fallacy. Even then, Rimurus literally above people like that In his verse and the imagination hax is nothing more then what Zegion can do with his Mist King ability. You didn't prove he could resist Rimuru degrading his abilities, copying his stats, copying his abilities, nullifying it and so much more.

Sonic is too much for Rimuru, and will kill him using his raw power, just because no one in his verse has done it doesn’t mean sonic won’t, nevermind only Mongul has ever harmed sonic in his Super Sonic form, edit: and super shadow.

Killing Rimuru with Raw power is out of the question as his infinite clones plus resistances will provide it wont happen, plus his null yo physical attacks.

You also have Yet to show Rimuru is even on Mogul level, keep in mind he was beaten by Chais Knuckles The Living Chaos Emerald who then got another amp and became Enerjak Knuckles, anyway here is Mogul destroying millions of multiverse zones.

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Ok sure, i literally shown Rimuru being above this type of stuff earlier on in the thing.

And to quote someone

"Now to explain why an infinite-D multiverse > baseline infinite multiverse.

So let's assume that an infinite multiverse is infinite universes where each universe is infinite. So the math here would be infinity x infinity = Aleph Null (smallest/countable infinity).

An infinite-D multiverse will be also assumed to have infinite universes (each universe being infinite) in each one of its spatial axes. So it would be infinite x infinite ^ Aleph Null = Aleph 1. We know from Cantor that the power set of a number is strictly larger than the number itself. So the power set of Aleph Null > Aleph Null. And according to the Continuum Hypothesis, there is nothing between Aleph Null and Aleph 1, so the power set of Aleph Null = Aleph 1"

So i don't know why your assuming Rimuru won't be able to do anything.

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ComicIncarnate

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@rikuyamaha:

Dude I read everything

It says about the infinite institution mobius system that it turns mass into energy, you'd need to prove a universe has infinite mass but these are minor details as you said he can apparantly destroy a multiverse.

Firstly, prove she has the same hax and is on the same level, because your claiming stuff without supporting it. And being a god of imagination is fodder to Rimuru who's above The literal god who created the multiverse of his verse.

Like I said Illumina created the precioustone which has infinite energy and supports the creation and continued existence of MaginaryWorlds which is just one multiverse with infinite universes and higher dimensional realms.

She is a God of Imagination, anything Rimuru could think of she can literally replicate, she literally creates concepts so of course she is above them, making concepts doesn't make you beneath them

Evidence the Illumina made an infinite multiverse and extradimensional realms below:

No Caption Provided
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As shown in the above that Generic bad guy in the first scan lives in MaginaryWorld and explains it is infinite even saying there will be a "Crisis on infinite" Dimensions lol.

Now keep in mind each universe in Sonic has infinite universe sized zones which are dimensions, so you have a multiverse in archie which is infinite universes, each universe has infinite zones, and the universe as a whole has infinite timelines an example is Light Mobius, Dark Mobius and whatever timeline silver is from.

It is a multiverse with 3 layers of infinity but I really didn't wanna go there

So once again I'm left wondering how creating a multiverse is impressive

Again, no limit fallacy. Even then, Rimurus literally above people like that In his verse and the imagination hax is nothing more then what Zegion can do with his Mist King ability. You didn't prove he could resist Rimuru degrading his abilities, copying his stats, copying his abilities, nullifying it and so much more.

Dude I'm not claiming Sonic is unbeatable, the issue is the extradimensional force protecting him, the chaos force, if you got the most high-end feats in the Sonic verse it still wouldn't compare to the Entire Positive Chaos Force that protects sonic.

Like I said Mogul destroyed millions of 3 layered of infinite mutliverses on a whim with Dimitri enerjak's power, Dimitri enerjak is just an avatar of the real enerjak and contains an infintesimally small amount of the real enerjak's power, the real enerjak tried to control the complete chaos force and was cast into the dark chaos force this isn't DC duality, the dark end is smaller then the greater whole

To beat Sonic you'd have to prove Rimuru can beat the Chaos forces fate protection from the chaos force

Of course if sonic gets The Sword Of Acorns which is standard weaponry for him this will become a spite even if he is base, but I'd need to ask about whether he gets this equipment.

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@comicincarnate:

As shown in the above that Generic bad guy in the first scan lives in MaginaryWorld and explains it is infinite even saying there will be a "Crisis on infinite" Dimensions lol.

Now keep in mind each universe in Sonic has infinite universe sized zones which are dimensions, so you have a multiverse in archie which is infinite universes, each universe has infinite zones, and the universe as a whole has infinite timelines an example is Light Mobius, Dark Mobius and whatever timeline silver is from.

It is a multiverse with 3 layers of infinity but I really didn't wanna go there

Those dimensions refer to universes not spatial dimensions. Having infinite amounts of infinite universes where each universe has infinite timelines is literally a baseline multiverse. It is cardinally Aleph Null (smallest infinity) as the math is infinity x infinity x infinity = Aleph Null.

Rimuru, as Rikuyamaha has quote above, is Aleph 1 due to the math of his multiverse being infinity x infinity^infinity = Aleph 1. So yeah, Rimuru beats Sonic in terms of AP easily.

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ComicIncarnate

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@anaverageguy123:

First of all, dude you have yet to prove the multiverse in that Rimuru is apart of has infinite timelines or infinite spatial dimensions they aren't stated.

Secondly being infinite-dimensional means nothing, there is an equivalence between verses, if TOAA is apart of a baseline multiverse he is still equal to the presence in DC as an example I'm not claiming it has or doesn't have infinite spatial dimensions its just a generic example.

With your logic Rimuru would be above CAS because DC doesnt have infinite spatial dimensions or above Mxy who is in the highest spatial dimension, some verses are unique DC has vibrational realms like apokolips and more above it.

Third, equivalence if there are only say 18 spatial dimensions in another verse and another has infinite the beings that 18th dimensional in the first verse are equal to the infinite-dimensional being of the second verse.

And all of this doesn't even matter because Sonic has fought beings beyond time, space such as Solaris, and eats spatial dimensions as a snack.

Sonic is has for a start has damaged the dimensional matrix of his multiverse.

And he has functioned in places with no dimensions like when he fought Solaris or the when he went outside the multiverse into nothingness to recreate the destroyed multiverse which puts him above all dimensions in his verse regardless since he literally recreated the dimensional matrix however i must admit that he did a bad job and issues occurred later and there is a whole story arc dedicated to it.

Ask for any scans you want I thought him recreating the some multiverses is well known in the super genesis wave arc.

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RikuYamaha

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@rikuyamaha:

Dude I read everything

It says about the infinite institution mobius system that it turns mass into energy, you'd need to prove a universe has infinite mass but these are minor details as you said he can apparantly destroy a multiverse.

Bruh. The universe is literally infinite in Rimurus stomach, imaginary space, and his normal world. And Rimuru literally ate the mobius system as well. And yes, he can destroy the multiverse as above.

Like I said Illumina created the precioustone which has infinite energy and supports the creation and continued existence of MaginaryWorlds which is just one multiverse with infinite universes and higher dimensional realms.

She is a God of Imagination, anything Rimuru could think of she can literally replicate, she literally creates concepts so of course she is above them, making concepts doesn't make you beneath them

The first part you explained about the stone is literally energy from Stardust. As for your argument of Anything rimuru could think of is a absolute NFL. And i allready explained A being literally made of concepts is 6 tiers below Rimuru. And i doubt she has the knowledge of Rimuru who has semi omniscience.

Evidence the Illumina made an infinite multiverse and extradimensional realms below:

No Caption Provided
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As shown in the above that Generic bad guy in the first scan lives in MaginaryWorld and explains it is infinite even saying there will be a "Crisis on infinite" Dimensions lol.

Infinite mutiverse? The infinite realities is just a baseline Multiversal being which is what Veldavana is. And the second panel only says it's from dimentional worlds simliar to the Sonics main verse. If you wanna go and say Sonics verse is infinite dimentional, please show a scan because a infinite dimentional Universe>anything below infinite dimentional Universe. And Rimurus verse has a infinite set of theses universes in his multiverse.

Now keep in mind each universe in Sonic has infinite universe sized zones which are dimensions, so you have a multiverse in archie which is infinite universes, each universe has infinite zones, and the universe as a whole has infinite timelines an example is Light Mobius, Dark Mobius and whatever timeline silver is from.

Please support this claim please. Anyway, if this was the case, it would make Sonic simliar in power to Rimuru, not above.

It is a multiverse with 3 layers of infinity but I really didn't wanna go there

Again, support this claim.

So once again I'm left wondering how creating a multiverse is impressive

Allready explained why.

.

Dude I'm not claiming Sonic is unbeatable, the issue is the extradimensional force protecting him, the chaos force, if you got the most high-end feats in the Sonic verse it still wouldn't compare to the Entire Positive Chaos Force that protects sonic.

How is a extradimensional force impressive in anyway? It's basically Stardust and Turn null which Rimuru is above.

Like I said Mogul destroyed millions of 3 layered of infinite mutliverses on a whim with Dimitri enerjak's power, Dimitri enerjak is just an avatar of the real enerjak and contains an infintesimally small amount of the real enerjak's power, the real enerjak tried to control the complete chaos force and was cast into the dark chaos force this isn't DC duality, the dark end is smaller then the greater whole

This feat isn't impressive as you didnt prove the 3 layers of infinite multiverses and even so, it would just be near a clone of Rimurus power, which Rimuru has infinite of that spans over all realities of his verse.

To beat Sonic you'd have to prove Rimuru can beat the Chaos forces fate protection from the chaos force

Of course if sonic gets The Sword Of Acorns which is standard weaponry for him this will become a spite even if he is base, but I'd need to ask about whether he gets this equipment.

No problem. Rimuru is casually above Yuuki who's above Veldavana, which i allready explained made the infinite dimentional universes in Slime. I honestly don't see why Rimuru can't just devour the chaos force. As for the fate protection, i allready shown Rimuru negating that type of stuff.

As for the sword of acorns, i dont see how it would be spite. Hell standard weaponry, Rimuru gets his Stardust Sword which ignores defense, bypasses barriers and any protection, kills on contact no matter the strengh, devours the opponets energy, kills their conceptual self, existence erases and etc.

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@comicincarnate:

First of all, dude you have yet to prove the multiverse in that Rimuru is apart of has infinite timelines or infinite spatial dimensions they aren't stated.

I believe Rikuyamaha has done this.

Secondly being infinite-dimensional means nothing, there is an equivalence between verses, if TOAA is apart of a baseline multiverse he is still equal to the presence in DC as an example I'm not claiming it has or doesn't have infinite spatial dimensions its just a generic example.

No, this is so wrong. You are essentially putting all multiverses on equal playing fields even if they have different sizes/cardinality. Its wrong to equate an infinite-D multiverse to a baseline one because the infinite-D multiverse is cardinally larger than a normal multiverse which I have proved above. Equating them is false equalivancy.

With your logic Rimuru would be above CAS because DC doesnt have infinite spatial dimensions or above Mxy who is in the highest spatial dimension, some verses are unique DC has vibrational realms like apokolips and more above it.

DC has infinite dimensions, I don't know what the hell you are smoking. Which is why we look at what those dimensions mean. Obviously a verse that just thinks dimensions = universes (Sonicverse) is not going to be equal in cardinal size to another verse that believe dimensions = higher levels of existence (DC). And, of course, AP isn't the sole deciding factor here, hax is more important usually and yeah, being infinite-D doesn't automatically grant you conceptual resistence or anything: I only brought it up because you were claiming a win based on AP and stuff.

Third, equivalence if there are only say 18 spatial dimensions in another verse and another has infinite the beings that 18th dimensional in the first verse are equal to the infinite-dimensional being of the second verse.

If both beings are normal humans with no powers, yes, it would be equal or close enough. But if we look at the size of a multiverse is 18 spatial dimensions and compare it to a multiverse with infinite-D, its very different in size. The former is only Aleph Null in cardinality while the later if Aleph 1. Aleph 1 >>>>>>>> Aleph Null, it becomes more important when we look at AP that scales to multiverses.

And all of this doesn't even matter because Sonic has fought beings beyond time, space such as Solaris, and eats spatial dimensions as a snack.

Just using it as an example of why Sonic isn't overpowering Rimuru in AP. Besides, Rimuru himself is also beyond space and time, as are 100% of all multiversals, so this is literally no point to flex on.

And he has functioned in places with no dimensions like when he fought Solaris or the when he went outside the multiverse into nothingness to recreate the destroyed multiverse which puts him above all dimensions in his verse regardless since he literally recreated the dimensional matrix however i must admit that he did a bad job and issues occurred later and there is a whole story arc dedicated to it.

Rimuru did something similar with a hilariously superior multiverse.

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@anaverageguy123: @rikuyamaha:

With just a little bit of research, I realize you guys haven't been completely truthful in this debate.

1. Turn Null which is the skill you guys keep mentioning only allows a user to destroy a universe and absorb the primordial energy to create a universe, this skill has yet to be shown to be used offensively.

2. It took Rimuru Tempest countless years to get the energy required to recreate a multiverse, that multiverse wasn't even tens of thousands of realities it never said he made infinite universes, so he already spent the energy from his Turn Null to create a multiverse so he isn't even immediate tens of thousands of times universal which is the size of his multiverse.

3. No one in the web novel is infinite universal, you just made that part up, not even Rimuru is infinite universal, even Veldanava only made a few universes not infinite, however, it is true Rimuru's imaginary space is infinite but the multiverse he created isn't infinite, his imaginary space is just a hax ability like sonic's hammerspace which is where he keeps his rings and emeralds

4. The sonic verse as in the complete Lore has millions of multiverses, this includes the DC, Marvel, Capcom, and Spawn multiverses. As seen in the spoiler block.

No Caption Provided
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The Marvel, Spawn, DC, and Mega-man multiverses are all relatively close to one another as they can be reached using the Cosmic interstate which is an actual thing this means Mammoth Mongul would've destroyed multiverses that have infinite spatial dimensions to some that have 6 spatial dimensions.

5. ANAVERAGEGUY123 equivalence does exist, DC doesn't have infininte spatial dimensions it has, 6 spatial dimensions also its rude to insult someone especially when you are wrong, DC has exactly 6 spatial dimensions consisting of length, width, depth, time, imagination and the unnamed 6th dimension that controls all the below and all these work across all vibration realms, however, it is worth noting each vibrational realm is infinitely above the previous. Therefore you have DC with limited spatial dimensions but has extradimensional realms, then marvel with infinite spatial dimensions and no extradimensional realms and yet TOAA = Presence as they are both beyond dimensions.

Sonic in comparison is above his creation the recreation of multiverses (how many is unknown but we know its at least 2 as he recreated his own and Megaman's multiverse) and therefore is an Outerversal being that isn't a Supreme being such as CAS or Mandrakk who survived the Overvoid and made his way back in making them low Outerversal, Sonic is above all concepts and dimensions as they were literally destroyed in the super genesis wave and of course he beat Mogul who destroyed millions of multiverses of which the DC, Marvel and Spawn universes are close enought to have been destroyed, and of course he was threatening all things in existence which would include DC, Marvel, Spawn and Megaman multiverse as seen in the scan below by Zonic The Zone Cop (alternate Sonic).

No Caption Provided

6. You guys asked me to prove that the Sonic universe is infinite universal, infinite timelines and infinite-dimensional.

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As it is clearly stated by the author and Eggman infinite variations of which he means infinite universes, infinite possibilities of which he means infinite timelines and when Dr. Willy says he is from a parallel universe the correct term is parallel multiverse because as it shows in the scan Dr. Willy's universe is not equal to dr. Eggman's they aren't one of the infinite variations or possibilities.

I can't currently find the scan for infinite zones currently, so you can take my word for it or we can proceed as if its only two infinities for now.

7. You haven't proven Rimuru is infinite dimensional, since you haven't shown evidence there are infinite spatial dimensions transcending time, like how DC has imagination, or marvel characters blatantly state they are infinite dimensional.

So this is what we have.

We have Master Mogul who destroyed millions of multiverses with varying properties and he was said to be capable of destroying all of existence meaning all multiverses, which is plausable as he wasn't trying when he destroyed millions of multiverses. Then we have Chaos Knuckles The Living Chaos Emerald who beat Master Mogul. Then we have Enerjak Knuckles who was even stronger. Then we have Super Sonic and he still has forms above depending on what emeralds he uses, but even chaos emeralds make him strong enough to contend against Enerjak Knuckles.

Meanwhile we have a being that is infinite-dimensional apparently, I'm not sure if he is, however he can't create an infinite universal multiverse and it already took him large amounts of time to create a quantifiable multiverse not infinite over the course of years making him low multiversal as a casual multiversal can do this kind of power instantaneously.

Bottomline Rimuru literally can't harm sonic, at this point even Game Sonic killing Solaris who was eating spatial dimensions, and going to end all timelines and universes is sounding more impressive.

If you disagree show evidence, I in particular want to see anything proving Rimuru is infinite multiversal INSTANTANEOUSLY., this is important as Kaguya is universal with enough time but she certainly isn't even comparable saiyan saga vegeta in INSTANTANEOUS energy whihc is energy which can be conjured on the spot, even if Sonic gave Rimuru to charge up a tens of thousands of times universal attack he has fought bigger fish who transcend existence, and Archie lores existence is a big fish in the omniverse.

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God.....the inconsistencies and misinformation and the blatant abuse of the equivalent of fourth wall breaking and toon force.

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@anaverageguy123: @rikuyamaha:

With just a little bit of research, I realize you guys haven't been completely truthful in this debate.

1. Turn Null which is the skill you guys keep mentioning only allows a user to destroy a universe and absorb the primordial energy to create a universe, this skill has yet to be shown to be used offensively.

False. You literally just said it can destroy the universe. Plus i allready explained how the universe with infinite dimentions thing. Also Turn null has a simliar power which is called Stardust, which is also offensively used.

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2. It took Rimuru Tempest countless years to get the energy required to recreate a multiverse, that multiverse wasn't even tens of thousands of realities it never said he made infinite universes, so he already spent the energy from his Turn Null to create a multiverse so he isn't even immediate tens of thousands of times universal which is the size of his multiverse.

What does the time taken to acquire it have to do with its abilities? And it said it could make it tens of thousands of times over vis the infinite dimentional feat.

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and i allready explained why this is impressive.

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"In nothingness, power finds its fill, which is a holy spirit. The great holy spirit is the source of power. Among these, Light and Darkness, the two great spirits who came to exist at the same moment as the world. But, the world was without form, an ephemeral existence. Light and Shadow, Darkness and the Light; two existences that shall never interweave.

One day, the great spirit Time was born, the child of Light and Darkness. And thus the world began to move. The moving world spun, without purpose, around itself. Inside the flowing currents of life and death. Earth, Water, Fire, Wind, and Sky; these five great spirits were born. And since then, these were the great eight .

Until the light consumes the world, erasing darkness. Until a new spirit is born, erasing all. Life and death, heralding the coming end of the world.

In other words, first, the holy spirit had existed, and it gave birth to the other eight. Great spirits did not have egos, they were masses of energy.

Sentient spirits are few in number and are called high-rank spirits.

The Fire Spirit was just an excess fragment of the entire mass. Like a monster, this fragment gained self-awareness. And this self-aware fragment of pure energy thus became a monster.

Generally, light and darkness spirits have the highest social standing and are the highest grade of spirits

----

3. No one in the web novel is infinite universal, you just made that part up, not even Rimuru is infinite universal, even Veldanava only made a few universes not infinite, however, it is true Rimuru's imaginary space is infinite but the multiverse he created isn't infinite, his imaginary space is just a hax ability like sonic's hammerspace which is where he keeps his rings and emeralds

The first part is wrong. I didn't make any of it up. I allready explained why Velda who created the multiverse of Slime was able to make infinite dimentional universes. And yes, Velda didn't make infinite universes, he made the infinite dimentions which would still be, well infinite. As for Rimurus Multiverse, i beg to differ.

Some of them might come from a different otherworld than mine.

I would provide them with information. Basically, I want them to work hard themselves to discover the method to transfer across dimension―― Inter-Dimensional Navigation[14].

For that reason, their strong wills of wanting to go back would become the largest motivation, stronger than anything else.

I think that I should send them back secretly if their hard work seems to be useless after several years, but…… that may be unnecessary since I have a hunch that they will accomplish their goal.

Their effort eventually bore fruit and the Inter-Dimensional Navigation was developed.

Then――

With interactions across dimensions, a new story begins.

多重並列存在 Tajuu Heiretsu Sonzai. Combined version of Multiple and Parallel, now Rimuru can be anywhere and in anyworld.

Plus i allready explained Rimurus multiverse>>>>Veldas multiverse which is still infinite.

4. The sonic verse as in the complete Lore has millions of multiverses, this includes the DC, Marvel, Capcom, and Spawn multiverses. As seen in the spoiler block.

No Caption Provided
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No Caption Provided
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The Marvel, Spawn, DC, and Mega-man multiverses are all relatively close to one another as they can be reached using the Cosmic interstate which is an actual thing this means Mammoth Mongul would've destroyed multiverses that have infinite spatial dimensions to some that have 6 spatial dimensions.

Anaverageguy allready explained the DC part, plus you would have to provr megaman multiverse and everyone else's has infinite dimentions in it.

5. ANAVERAGEGUY123 equivalence does exist, DC doesn't have infininte spatial dimensions it has, 6 spatial dimensions also its rude to insult someone especially when you are wrong, DC has exactly 6 spatial dimensions consisting of length, width, depth, time, imagination and the unnamed 6th dimension that controls all the below and all these work across all vibration realms, however, it is worth noting each vibrational realm is infinitely above the previous. Therefore you have DC with limited spatial dimensions but has extradimensional realms, then marvel with infinite spatial dimensions and no extradimensional realms and yet TOAA = Presence as they are both beyond dimensions.

Cool, so it's still limited by the amount of finite it apply by. I literally allready shown one universe of tensei is infinite dimentional.

Sonic in comparison is above his creation the recreation of multiverses (how many is unknown but we know its at least 2 as he recreated his own and Megaman's multiverse) and therefore is an Outerversal being that isn't a Supreme being such as CAS or Mandrakk who survived the Overvoid and made his way back in making them low Outerversal, Sonic is above all concepts and dimensions as they were literally destroyed in the super genesis wave and of course he beat Mogul who destroyed millions of multiverses of which the DC, Marvel and Spawn universes are close enought to have been destroyed, and of course he was threatening all things in existence which would include DC, Marvel, Spawn and Megaman multiverse as seen in the scan below by Zonic The Zone Cop (alternate Sonic).

Smh, someone literally allready debunked theses notions before.

https://www.reddit.com/r/CharacterRant/comments/8yx85n/archie_sonic_is_not_multiversal_holy_shit/?utm_source=amp&utm_medium=&utm_content=post_body

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6. You guys asked me to prove that the Sonic universe is infinite universal, infinite timelines and infinite-dimensional.

So taking baseline multiverse into a infinite dimentional multiverse feat? Yeah thats not gonna fly. Plus you literally took a pic of some guy saying it's infinite off of like spacebattles. Come on.

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As it is clearly stated by the author and Eggman infinite variations of which he means infinite universes, infinite possibilities of which he means infinite timelines and when Dr. Willy says he is from a parallel universe the correct term is parallel multiverse because as it shows in the scan Dr. Willy's universe is not equal to dr. Eggman's they aren't one of the infinite variations or possibilities.

Reddit post above^

I can't currently find the scan for infinite zones currently, so you can take my word for it or we can proceed as if its only two infinities for now.

Not all zones are infinite.

https://m.imgur.com/50JabyS

https://m.imgur.com/LPdmzGp

https://m.imgur.com/UiqvcWO

7. You haven't proven Rimuru is infinite dimensional, since you haven't shown evidence there are infinite spatial dimensions transcending time, like how DC has imagination, or marvel characters blatantly state they are infinite dimensional.

I literally shown Rimuru being above the Circulation of Souls which spreads across infinite dimentional planes.

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So this is what we have.

We have Master Mogul who destroyed millions of multiverses with varying properties and he was said to be capable of destroying all of existence meaning all multiverses, which is plausable as he wasn't trying when he destroyed millions of multiverses. Then we have Chaos Knuckles The Living Chaos Emerald who beat Master Mogul. Then we have Enerjak Knuckles who was even stronger. Then we have Super Sonic and he still has forms above depending on what emeralds he uses, but even chaos emeralds make him strong enough to contend against Enerjak Knuckles.

For master mogul..

He fought Enerjak which is supposed to be impressive right?

http://vignette99.wikia.nocookie.net/vsbattles/images/8/83/Mogul_absorbing_Dimijak's_power..jpg/revision/latest?cb=20150719074146

Even ignoring he had massive prep in doing so and needed a very specific weapon, the Sword of Acorns, Enerjak is not some multiversal reality warper. I don't even know where this comes from. Some people probably saw the description on the wiki about having 'power limited by imagintion' and thought 'oh shit, this guy is like a living IG' despite the fact he's been beaten by shit like this.

It is true that Enerjak is pretty strong compared to most characters, but his powerlevel mostly comes from feats of this magnitude or even this as his possible best feat.

He's never destroyed zones or something. Scaling Super Sonic to the first Master Mogul is pretty shaky in any case, considering he needed the help of Hyper Knuckles, Turbo Tails, and a bunch of other Mobians as well as a pre-ordained prophecy by the Ancient Walkers and a specific device to take him down (he didn't even land the final blow, lol).

And we also have these scans of Sonic making Enerjak Knuckles his bitch. Even though Knuckles was pretty weakened before this fight and the hex that held Enerjak's control over Knuckles was weakened, not to mention Knuckles was limited during that fight due to being very uncreative in his attacks and the fact that Sonic couldn't even beat him without the sacrifice of Knuckles's dad to undo the spell entirely. It's also worth noting that when Dark Enerjak, an Enerjak Knuckles from an alternate universe, came in to mainline Mobius, he not only had to hold back but beat everyone anyway, including Sonic until Silver barely managed to beat him by using his own attacks against him. All with still no clear multiversal - no, no clear feats above city level, though he can be scaled higher as I'll explain later.

^

From the debunk

Meanwhile we have a being that is infinite-dimensional apparently, I'm not sure if he is, however he can't create an infinite universal multiverse and it already took him large amounts of time to create a quantifiable multiverse not infinite over the course of years making him low multiversal as a casual multiversal can do this kind of power instantaneously.

The infinite dimentional part i allready explained.

And what does time have to do with the power of its use?

Plus

"Now to explain why an infinite-D multiverse > baseline infinite multiverse.

So let's assume that an infinite multiverse is infinite universes where each universe is infinite. So the math here would be infinity x infinity = Aleph Null (smallest/countable infinity).

An infinite-D multiverse will be also assumed to have infinite universes (each universe being infinite) in each one of its spatial axes. So it would be infinite x infinite ^ Aleph Null = Aleph 1. We know from Cantor that the power set of a number is strictly larger than the number itself. So the power set of Aleph Null > Aleph Null. And according to the Continuum Hypothesis, there is nothing between Aleph Null and Aleph 1, so the power set of Aleph Null = Aleph 1

Bottomline Rimuru literally can't harm sonic, at this point even Game Sonic killing Solaris who was eating spatial dimensions, and going to end all timelines and universes is sounding more impressive.

Rimuru CAN harm him, your just ignoring infomation given for headcanon. I posted the debunk here anyway.

If you disagree show evidence, I in particular want to see anything proving Rimuru is infinite multiversal INSTANTANEOUSLY., this is important as Kaguya is universal with enough time but she certainly isn't even comparable saiyan saga vegeta in INSTANTANEOUS energy whihc is energy which can be conjured on the spot, even if Sonic gave Rimuru to charge up a tens of thousands of times universal attack he has fought bigger fish who transcend existence, and Archie lores existence is a big fish in the omniverse.

Love that little line here as i been showing evidence. You tried to show anti feats but you took all of them out of context without knowing its full scope. And i allready explained the infinite multiversal thing. As for transcend existence, what kind of wank is that? It was literally debunked earlier.

Anyway, everyone allready agreed Rimuru stomps as your the only one arguing for stuff that's been debunked before.

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RikuYamaha

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God.....the inconsistencies and misinformation and the blatant abuse of the equivalent of fourth wall breaking and toon force.

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@comicincarnate:

5. ANAVERAGEGUY123 equivalence does exist, DC doesn't have infininte spatial dimensions it has, 6 spatial dimensions also its rude to insult someone especially when you are wrong, DC has exactly 6 spatial dimensions consisting of length, width, depth, time, imagination and the unnamed 6th dimension that controls all the below and all these work across all vibration realms, however, it is worth noting each vibrational realm is infinitely above the previous. Therefore you have DC with limited spatial dimensions but has extradimensional realms, then marvel with infinite spatial dimensions and no extradimensional realms and yet TOAA = Presence as they are both beyond dimensions.

If you didn't know, imagination is not a spatial dimension. Snyder's dimensions are not spatial but correspond to layers of existence as most people would agree on. Spatial dimensions, if you didn't know, are not layers of existence. Heck, there's even a scan where Snyder openly admitted he didn't know how spatial dimensions worked and told a fan it didn't matter because he wasn't using them.

No Caption Provided

Here is a scan for infinite dimensions ^.

Sonic in comparison is above his creation the recreation of multiverses (how many is unknown but we know its at least 2 as he recreated his own and Megaman's multiverse) and therefore is an Outerversal being that isn't a Supreme being such as CAS or Mandrakk who survived the Overvoid and made his way back in making them low Outerversal, Sonic is above all concepts and dimensions as they were literally destroyed in the super genesis wave and of course he beat Mogul who destroyed millions of multiverses of which the DC, Marvel and Spawn universes are close enought to have been destroyed, and of course he was threatening all things in existence which would include DC, Marvel, Spawn and Megaman multiverse as seen in the scan below by Zonic The Zone Cop (alternate Sonic).

Lul what? We are using outerversal now? Oh great, now Marvel and DC hilariously above that. Both as potentially scaling to Tier 0 on VsB, thank you very much, Sonic, even as an "outerversal" being is not coming close to destroying DC or Marvel composite.

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ComicIncarnate

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@comicincarnate:

5. ANAVERAGEGUY123 equivalence does exist, DC doesn't have infininte spatial dimensions it has, 6 spatial dimensions also its rude to insult someone especially when you are wrong, DC has exactly 6 spatial dimensions consisting of length, width, depth, time, imagination and the unnamed 6th dimension that controls all the below and all these work across all vibration realms, however, it is worth noting each vibrational realm is infinitely above the previous. Therefore you have DC with limited spatial dimensions but has extradimensional realms, then marvel with infinite spatial dimensions and no extradimensional realms and yet TOAA = Presence as they are both beyond dimensions.

If you didn't know, imagination is not a spatial dimension. Snyder's dimensions are not spatial but correspond to layers of existence as most people would agree on. Spatial dimensions, if you didn't know, are not layers of existence. Heck, there's even a scan where Snyder openly admitted he didn't know how spatial dimensions worked and told a fan it didn't matter because he wasn't using them.

No Caption Provided

Here is a scan for infinite dimensions ^

Dude your taking stuff out of context, there is no evidence it is talking about spatial dimensions in this scan, DC has 6, I am aware they aren't layers of existence, they are live time and space (length,width, depth), and anymore in DC that is imagination. If you say Snyder's dimensions aren't spatial dimensions even though Snyder's Justice league literally says imagination is a spatial dimension you need proof from the author or someone.

@comicincarnate:

Sonic in comparison is above his creation the recreation of multiverses (how many is unknown but we know its at least 2 as he recreated his own and Megaman's multiverse) and therefore is an Outerversal being that isn't a Supreme being such as CAS or Mandrakk who survived the Overvoid and made his way back in making them low Outerversal, Sonic is above all concepts and dimensions as they were literally destroyed in the super genesis wave and of course he beat Mogul who destroyed millions of multiverses of which the DC, Marvel and Spawn universes are close enought to have been destroyed, and of course he was threatening all things in existence which would include DC, Marvel, Spawn and Megaman multiverse as seen in the scan below by Zonic The Zone Cop (alternate Sonic).

Lul what? We are using outerversal now? Oh great, now Marvel and DC hilariously above that. Both as potentially scaling to Tier 0 on VsB, thank you very much, Sonic, even as an "outerversal" being is not coming close to destroying DC or Marvel composite.

I mean I don't even write the comics he is apart of he has indeed gone to those verses, and it isn't my fault he has I'm only stating facts, laughing about it doesn't change anything. I said he was outerversal in the sense he is above all dimensions as he could function outside of all dimensions, universes, spatial dimensions etc, like a being that can survive the overvoid entropy, I even said explicitly he isn't a supreme being.

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Giojoestar

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@comicincarnate: snyder confirms that the sixth dimension isn't related to euclidan geometry but rather a plane of existence, from what I remember DC works on M-theory

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@giojoestar: That is Grant Morrison's stuff afaik, probably been retconed knowing DC lol.

@comicincarnate:

Dude your taking stuff out of context, there is no evidence it is talking about spatial dimensions in this scan, DC has 6, I am aware they aren't layers of existence, they are live time and space (length,width, depth), and anymore in DC that is imagination. If you say Snyder's dimensions aren't spatial dimensions even though Snyder's Justice league literally says imagination is a spatial dimension you need proof from the author or someone.

Definition of a spatial dimension: Spatial dimensions

Classical physics theories describe three physical dimensions: from a particular point in space, the basic directions in which we can move are up/down, left/right, and forward/backward. Movement in any other direction can be expressed in terms of just these three.

Last time I checked, imagination is not an axis of movement. Prove that scan wasn't refering to spatial dimensions? We have an JMD tweet saying he was referring to spatial dimensions in that scan. ANd before you go, "oh no, that's one writer", here's another one saying each UNIVERSE has infinite-D:

No Caption Provided

So yeah...if the League claims Imagination is a spatial dimension, we ignore them for obvious reasons: because that's not what a spatial dimension is. Heck, they never even called it a spatial dimension, they just said it was a dimension.

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@anaverageguy123: m-theory was mentioned in final crisis issue 5 but ye it's probably a scrapped concept. Paul Jenkins is also the same guy who thinks DC has higher innumerable but not infinite dimensions lol

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@anaverageguy123: m-theory was mentioned in final crisis issue 5 but ye it's probably a scrapped concept. Paul Jenkins is also the same guy who thinks DC has higher innumerable but not infinite dimensions lol

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Huh, that's weird, up above we see another twitter scan where he confirms DC does indeed have infinite dimensions.

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@comicincarnate said:

@anaverageguy123: @rikuyamaha:

With just a little bit of research, I realize you guys haven't been completely truthful in this debate.

1. Turn Null which is the skill you guys keep mentioning only allows a user to destroy a universe and absorb the primordial energy to create a universe, this skill has yet to be shown to be used offensively.

False. You literally just said it can destroy the universe. Plus i allready explained how the universe with infinite dimentions thing. Also Turn null has a simliar power which is called Stardust, which is also offensively used.

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Thats what I mean Sonic can fight outside the mutliverse what good will being able to destroy a universe or a multiverse that isn't infinite even do in this situation, even if he can harness universal energy by destroying nearby universes in this battle what good will it do, you never informed me that Rimuru spent the multiversal energy he had been saving was spent in the creation of his finite in number multiverse with infinite dimensions.

@comicincarnate said:

@anaverageguy123: @rikuyamaha:

2. It took Rimuru Tempest countless years to get the energy required to recreate a multiverse, that multiverse wasn't even tens of thousands of realities it never said he made infinite universes, so he already spent the energy from his Turn Null to create a multiverse so he isn't even immediate tens of thousands of times universal which is the size of his multiverse.

What does the time taken to acquire it have to do with its abilities? And it said it could make it tens of thousands of times over vis the infinite dimentional feat.

No Caption Provided

and i allready explained why this is impressive.

No Caption Provided

"In nothingness, power finds its fill, which is a holy spirit. The great holy spirit is the source of power. Among these, Light and Darkness, the two great spirits who came to exist at the same moment as the world. But, the world was without form, an ephemeral existence. Light and Shadow, Darkness and the Light; two existences that shall never interweave.

One day, the great spirit Time was born, the child of Light and Darkness. And thus the world began to move. The moving world spun, without purpose, around itself. Inside the flowing currents of life and death. Earth, Water, Fire, Wind, and Sky; these five great spirits were born. And since then, these were the great eight .

Until the light consumes the world, erasing darkness. Until a new spirit is born, erasing all. Life and death, heralding the coming end of the world.

In other words, first, the holy spirit had existed, and it gave birth to the other eight. Great spirits did not have egos, they were masses of energy.

Sentient spirits are few in number and are called high-rank spirits.

The Fire Spirit was just an excess fragment of the entire mass. Like a monster, this fragment gained self-awareness. And this self-aware fragment of pure energy thus became a monster.

Generally, light and darkness spirits have the highest social standing and are the highest grade of spirits

The reason why time is important is because Sonic has above multiversal instantaneous feats where as Rimuru has one feat at the end of the series were he creates a finite in number multiverse with infinite dimensions.

But up to this point in the show there has been absolutely no mention of infinite dimensional not that it is impressive because that is only 2 layers of infinity, Sonic functions well above that with scaling. Overall please prove infinite dimensional universe, I'm not dumb but there is literally no mention of them, and the other guy was ranting about 3 layers of infinity only to get shut down, and from memory you agreed with him so it makes it hard to sauce out the truth from the baseless lets call em assumptions for now.

@comicincarnate said:

@anaverageguy123: @rikuyamaha:

3. No one in the web novel is infinite universal, you just made that part up, not even Rimuru is infinite universal, even Veldanava only made a few universes not infinite, however, it is true Rimuru's imaginary space is infinite but the multiverse he created isn't infinite, his imaginary space is just a hax ability like sonic's hammerspace which is where he keeps his rings and emeralds

The first part is wrong. I didn't make any of it up. I allready explained why Velda who created the multiverse of Slime was able to make infinite dimentional universes. And yes, Velda didn't make infinite universes, he made the infinite dimentions which would still be, well infinite. As for Rimurus Multiverse, i beg to differ.

Some of them might come from a different otherworld than mine.

I would provide them with information. Basically, I want them to work hard themselves to discover the method to transfer across dimension―― Inter-Dimensional Navigation[14].

For that reason, their strong wills of wanting to go back would become the largest motivation, stronger than anything else.

I think that I should send them back secretly if their hard work seems to be useless after several years, but…… that may be unnecessary since I have a hunch that they will accomplish their goal.

Their effort eventually bore fruit and the Inter-Dimensional Navigation was developed.

Then――

With interactions across dimensions, a new story begins.

多重並列存在 Tajuu Heiretsu Sonzai. Combined version of Multiple and Parallel, now Rimuru can be anywhere and in anyworld.

Plus i allready explained Rimurus multiverse>>>>Veldas multiverse which is still infinite.

Dude your making this very difficult for me and yourself, these scans or quotes of scans have nothing to do with infinite dimensional universes, it doesnt mention it above, Rimuru may have a larger multiverse but we don't even know if it has infinite dimensional universes like the other guy it was NEVER stated.

@comicincarnate said:

@anaverageguy123: @rikuyamaha:

4. The sonic verse as in the complete Lore has millions of multiverses, this includes the DC, Marvel, Capcom, and Spawn multiverses. As seen in the spoiler block.

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The Marvel, Spawn, DC, and Mega-man multiverses are all relatively close to one another as they can be reached using the Cosmic interstate which is an actual thing this means Mammoth Mongul would've destroyed multiverses that have infinite spatial dimensions to some that have 6 spatial dimensions.

Anaverageguy allready explained the DC part, plus you would have to provr megaman multiverse and everyone else's has infinite dimentions in it.

Anaverage guy123 didnt really prove anything, he literally tried to say infinite dimension meant infinite spatial dimensions, I'm starting to wonder if we have conflicting ideas on what a spatial dimensions is, I do physics so I use there definiton of a spatial dimensions, and merely having infinite universe sized dimensions in a universe isn't the same as having infinite spatial dimensions.

As for the megaman multiverse, eggman literally said Dr. Willy's universe has infinite variations.

@comicincarnate said:

@anaverageguy123: @rikuyamaha:

5. ANAVERAGEGUY123 equivalence does exist, DC doesn't have infininte spatial dimensions it has, 6 spatial dimensions also its rude to insult someone especially when you are wrong, DC has exactly 6 spatial dimensions consisting of length, width, depth, time, imagination and the unnamed 6th dimension that controls all the below and all these work across all vibration realms, however, it is worth noting each vibrational realm is infinitely above the previous. Therefore you have DC with limited spatial dimensions but has extradimensional realms, then marvel with infinite spatial dimensions and no extradimensional realms and yet TOAA = Presence as they are both beyond dimensions.

Cool, so it's still limited by the amount of finite it apply by. I literally allready shown one universe of tensei is infinite dimentional.

Sonic in comparison is above his creation the recreation of multiverses (how many is unknown but we know its at least 2 as he recreated his own and Megaman's multiverse) and therefore is an Outerversal being that isn't a Supreme being such as CAS or Mandrakk who survived the Overvoid and made his way back in making them low Outerversal, Sonic is above all concepts and dimensions as they were literally destroyed in the super genesis wave and of course he beat Mogul who destroyed millions of multiverses of which the DC, Marvel and Spawn universes are close enought to have been destroyed, and of course he was threatening all things in existence which would include DC, Marvel, Spawn and Megaman multiverse as seen in the scan below by Zonic The Zone Cop (alternate Sonic).

Smh, someone literally allready debunked theses notions before.

https://www.reddit.com/r/CharacterRant/comments/8yx85n/archie_sonic_is_not_multiversal_holy_shit/?utm_source=amp&utm_medium=&utm_content=post_body

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Dude that guy supposedly debunking hasn't even read the full comic, and I dont blame him there is a lot of issues, including tie-in comics like knuckles the echidna, super sonic vs hyper knuckles, sonic universe and far many more.

The guy isnt even aware there is more then one time they beat enerjak since he is oblivious to the fact enerjak knuckles beat a full power enerjak.

He is unaware all game feats occurred in this continuity even sonic generations and sonic 06 there are issues that literally say this happened after this game and what not, we even see people like mephiles in prison.

To put it simply that guy knows absolutely nothing Game sonic is multiversal from Solaris, Time Eater, Djinn, Illumina alone thats just the game characters, since all games occurred in archie comics.

Heck that guy is oblivious to Sonic vistiting other verses, he even said stuff like enerjak is weak and said mogul is the strongest in the verse when Mogul stole enrjak's power.

Please ask people who ahve read the comic that guy only read notable chapters it seems and thought of ways to discredit it, he waas probably angry that a character could be so strong.

@comicincarnate said:

@anaverageguy123: @rikuyamaha:

6. You guys asked me to prove that the Sonic universe is infinite universal, infinite timelines and infinite-dimensional.

So taking baseline multiverse into a infinite dimentional multiverse feat? Yeah thats not gonna fly. Plus you literally took a pic of some guy saying it's infinite off of like spacebattles. Come on.

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As it is clearly stated by the author and Eggman infinite variations of which he means infinite universes, infinite possibilities of which he means infinite timelines and when Dr. Willy says he is from a parallel universe the correct term is parallel multiverse because as it shows in the scan Dr. Willy's universe is not equal to dr. Eggman's they aren't one of the infinite variations or possibilities.

Reddit post above^

I can't currently find the scan for infinite zones currently, so you can take my word for it or we can proceed as if its only two infinities for now.

Not all zones are infinite.

https://m.imgur.com/50JabyS

https://m.imgur.com/LPdmzGp

https://m.imgur.com/UiqvcWO

Dude lol

Thats the author of Archie Sonic

Just a reddit post I almost died. Anyway enough banter sorry for laughing, you are correct not all zones are infinite but that is because zones describe multiple areas, sometimes universes, sometimes multiverses, and yes in really early archie sonic it was used to desrcibe some country level areas, that was no longer the case further down. E.g. The Acorn Kingdom large enough to be considered a country level zone but its not called a zone they dropped that altogether save a few ICONIC zones like green hill zone.

So like I said that above is the author and it's not space battles I actually forgot what its called.

@comicincarnate said:

@anaverageguy123: @rikuyamaha:

7. You haven't proven Rimuru is infinite dimensional, since you haven't shown evidence there are infinite spatial dimensions transcending time, like how DC has imagination, or marvel characters blatantly state they are infinite dimensional.

I literally shown Rimuru being above the Circulation of Souls which spreads across infinite dimentional planes.

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So this is what we have.

We have Master Mogul who destroyed millions of multiverses with varying properties and he was said to be capable of destroying all of existence meaning all multiverses, which is plausable as he wasn't trying when he destroyed millions of multiverses. Then we have Chaos Knuckles The Living Chaos Emerald who beat Master Mogul. Then we have Enerjak Knuckles who was even stronger. Then we have Super Sonic and he still has forms above depending on what emeralds he uses, but even chaos emeralds make him strong enough to contend against Enerjak Knuckles.

For master mogul..

He fought Enerjak which is supposed to be impressive right?

http://vignette99.wikia.nocookie.net/vsbattles/images/8/83/Mogul_absorbing_Dimijak's_power..jpg/revision/latest?cb=20150719074146

Thats the wrong enerjak there are multiple I even specified there are different avatars, that was Dimitri enerjak who got energy absorbed but he lost to Enerjak knuckles, who is a stronger embodiment of chaos then Dimitri so he had more chaos energy when Mogul thought he had drained knuckles he got bashed as the amount he had was less then whole and was drained.

@comicincarnate said:

@anaverageguy123: @rikuyamaha:

Even ignoring he had massive prep in doing so and needed a very specific weapon, the Sword of Acorns, Enerjak is not some multiversal reality warper. I don't even know where this comes from. Some people probably saw the description on the wiki about having 'power limited by imagintion' and thought 'oh shit, this guy is like a living IG' despite the fact he's been beaten by shit like this.

Dude Enerjak doesn't display his power, Mogul with his power was destroying millions of multiverses from the WEAKEST enerjak avatar, dimitri may have just had a small minded imagination, Mogul is an immortal who has existed for a millenia, nevermind that it still would change the amount of chaos energy inside of enerjak that mogul had.

Enerjak is a multiversal reality warper he just doesn't want the world to be made in his image he wants servitude.

@comicincarnate said:

@anaverageguy123: @rikuyamaha:

It is true that Enerjak is pretty strong compared to most characters, but his powerlevel mostly comes from feats of this magnitude or even this as his possible best feat.

He's never destroyed zones or something. Scaling Super Sonic to the first Master Mogul is pretty shaky in any case, considering he needed the help of Hyper Knuckles, Turbo Tails, and a bunch of other Mobians as well as a pre-ordained prophecy by the Ancient Walkers and a specific device to take him down (he didn't even land the final blow, lol).

Muliple issues for a start that was only there first encounter, they had a second a third and fourth he gave up as he said base sonic had full protection of the Chaos force, even in his godly state he was 100% sure something was going to take him out if he tried to kill sonic.

Dimitri enerjak also quite literally scales to Mogul took his power your literally dodging logic.

@comicincarnate said:

@anaverageguy123: @rikuyamaha:

And we also have these scans of Sonic making Enerjak Knuckles his bitch. Even though Knuckles was pretty weakened before this fight and the hex that held Enerjak's control over Knuckles was weakened, not to mention Knuckles was limited during that fight due to being very uncreative in his attacks and the fact that Sonic couldn't even beat him without the sacrifice of Knuckles's dad to undo the spell entirely. It's also worth noting that when Dark Enerjak, an Enerjak Knuckles from an alternate universe, came in to mainline Mobius, he not only had to hold back but beat everyone anyway, including Sonic until Silver barely managed to beat him by using his own attacks against him. All with still no clear multiversal - no, no clear feats above city level, though he can be scaled higher as I'll explain later.

^

Yeah i figured this wasn't from you. He completely forgot this enerjak is above Mogul, the Hex he is talking about is just Enerjak's mind control, when Mogul was defeated the first time his power was placed in the master emerald, but that was enerjak's power Dr. Finetivis helped put a hex to allow enrjak to come back if someone touched it. Knuckles did and became Enerjak's 3rd avatar, Sonic then used the master emerald to turn into Super Sonic with a green shade and beat Mogul, Sonic wasnt effected by the Hex due to his One Billionth Ring Aura which gives sonic fate hax and resistances to various things, being in Sonic's presence alone was dismantling the Hex, but that has nothing to do with AP lol, it just means knuckles was reverting to his normal state of mind. Dark enrjak from the future I will admit is a weird existence he supposedly kill Super Sonic, Super Shadow and more and Silcer took him down although Silver did do that by reflecting his own attacks directly back at him so its pausible to say he wasn't mutliversal you'd need drugs, Super Sonic is well above multiversal. That guy really knows nothing about sonic.

@comicincarnate said:

@anaverageguy123: @rikuyamaha:

Meanwhile we have a being that is infinite-dimensional apparently, I'm not sure if he is, however he can't create an infinite universal multiverse and it already took him large amounts of time to create a quantifiable multiverse not infinite over the course of years making him low multiversal as a casual multiversal can do this kind of power instantaneously.

The infinite dimentional part i allready explained.

And what does time have to do with the power of its use?

Plus

"Now to explain why an infinite-D multiverse > baseline infinite multiverse.

So let's assume that an infinite multiverse is infinite universes where each universe is infinite. So the math here would be infinity x infinity = Aleph Null (smallest/countable infinity).

An infinite-D multiverse will be also assumed to have infinite universes (each universe being infinite) in each one of its spatial axes. So it would be infinite x infinite ^ Aleph Null = Aleph 1. We know from Cantor that the power set of a number is strictly larger than the number itself. So the power set of Aleph Null > Aleph Null. And according to the Continuum Hypothesis, there is nothing between Aleph Null and Aleph 1, so the power set of Aleph Null = Aleph 1

This makes no sense and is flawed since sonic comes from infinite-D multiverse and his lore has marvel and DC which are also infinite-D multiverses, and that explanation you gave isn't even widely excepted.

Nevermind Rimuru can't create an infinite D- multiverse since he fails to meet the first pre-requisite, it isn't infinite universes so he created it was finite, and it was overtime not immediate.

Rimuru can't harm sonic he would have to charge an attack to have any hope of harming sonic since he spent his energy on creating the multiverse he is in which isn't an infinite-D multiverse, makes me wonder who you copied this infinite-D stuff from since you wouldn't post something contradictory to your own claims

@comicincarnate said:

@anaverageguy123: @rikuyamaha:

Bottomline Rimuru literally can't harm sonic, at this point even Game Sonic killing Solaris who was eating spatial dimensions, and going to end all timelines and universes is sounding more impressive.

Rimuru CAN harm him, your just ignoring infomation given for headcanon. I posted the debunk here anyway.

If you disagree show evidence, I in particular want to see anything proving Rimuru is infinite multiversal INSTANTANEOUSLY., this is important as Kaguya is universal with enough time but she certainly isn't even comparable saiyan saga vegeta in INSTANTANEOUS energy whihc is energy which can be conjured on the spot, even if Sonic gave Rimuru to charge up a tens of thousands of times universal attack he has fought bigger fish who transcend existence, and Archie lores existence is a big fish in the omniverse.

Love that little line here as i been showing evidence. You tried to show anti feats but you took all of them out of context without knowing its full scope. And i allready explained the infinite multiversal thing. As for transcend existence, what kind of wank is that? It was literally debunked earlier.

Anyway, everyone allready agreed Rimuru stomps as your the only one arguing for stuff that's been debunked before.

You literally got one guys opinion when there are more people who know how strong Archie sonic is, you got your opinion from a hater who hasn't even read the whole of Archie Sonic lol. The super genesis wave, sigma, enerjak knuckles, chaos knuckles, mogul, illumina, solaris, egg wizard, the guy only covered 3 out these lol.

What would Rimuru even do, I just took another look at the OP he has the sword of acorn, the sword is made from The Source Of All basically the Sonic version of TOAA, and the sword can manipulate all things it's made from primodial energy.

Like I said Rimuru can't even muster instantaneous multiversal energy he requires time and you asked why that is relevant, its relevant because it will take time for rimuru to make mutliversal shields, Sonic can generate that energy instantaneously, anything rimuru throws can get absorbed by the sword of acorns, it was what drained enerjak remember and hes is far above Rimuru

Sonic still wins, I'm even leaning to this becoming a spite

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Giojoestar

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@anaverageguy123: there's others like 12 and a half dimensions, 14 dimensions, 19 dimensions, 28 dimensions, 52nd dimension, 190000 dimensions, DC is confusing honestly lol