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#1 Edited by ValorKnight (12213 posts) - - Show Bio

Son Goku

No Caption Provided

Scenario

For each round, Goku witnesses his opponent mercilessly murder Kuririn. Therefore, he is bloodlusted to the highest degree, and will go all out from the start. This will be Goku from before Z, with feats all the way up till the end of the original Dragon Ball manga. Another stipulation will be that if the fight lasts for 10 minutes or more, Goku will transform into his Oozaru state. With all of this said, let's get right into the gauntlet!

Rounds

  1. Kakashi Hatake (Pre-Shippuden)
  2. Naruto & Sasuke (Pre-Shippuden)
  3. Maito Gai (Spiritual Gates 1-6)
  4. Kisame Hoshigaki (with Samehada)
  5. Minato Uzumaki (alive--with Yang Kurama)
  6. Nagato Uzumaki (alive--no soul stealing)
  7. Madara Uchiha (alive--no Genjutsu)
  8. Hashirama Senju (alive--no sealing)
  9. Kinshiki Otsutsuki (manga + anime)
  10. Momoshiki Otsutsuki (fused--manga + anime)

So, where does the Saiyajin warrior stop? Or does he clear the gauntlet? Make sure to give reasoning!

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#2 Posted by guleddos (616 posts) - - Show Bio

Clears

Online
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#3 Posted by Thedarkpaladin (22886 posts) - - Show Bio

Before Z? He definitely won't make it past Madara and could potentially stop sooner.

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#4 Posted by AlexTheBoss (16903 posts) - - Show Bio

1: wins easily

2: wins easily

3: wins with a bit of a fight

4: wins with a bit of a fight

5: wins after a hard fight

6: wins after a hard fight

7: could go either way, if Madara has hashirama cells and sage mode I might go with him.

8: Hashirama after a good fight

9: Kinshiki stomps

10: Momoshiki god stomps

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#5 Posted by TheDeathstar (4054 posts) - - Show Bio

Stops at 7 or 8.

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#6 Posted by Gaoron (8176 posts) - - Show Bio

Stops at 10 or clears

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#7 Posted by BeaconofStrength (12487 posts) - - Show Bio

7.

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#8 Edited by Marc_55 (5857 posts) - - Show Bio

He's gonna tag Minato, how exactly? With KCM, he decimates Goku.

Also, Hashirama doesn't have seals.

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#9 Posted by AkshSarpanch (3569 posts) - - Show Bio

7

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#10 Posted by jashugan (6072 posts) - - Show Bio

6 or 7 he stops

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#11 Posted by cooljammy18 (2336 posts) - - Show Bio
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#13 Posted by ValorKnight (12213 posts) - - Show Bio

@marc_55 said:

He's gonna tag Minato, how exactly? With KCM, he decimates Goku.

Also, Hashirama doesn't have seals.

I'm pretty sure that Goku is faster than Minato, so...

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#14 Posted by easterlin74 (503 posts) - - Show Bio

@valor_175: End of DB Goku is not as fast as Minato but probably stronger. Minato might lose still.

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#15 Posted by Gaoron (8176 posts) - - Show Bio

@easterlin74: How fast do you think Minato is? Goku was fast enough to be invisible to faster than lightning characters in real time. Naruto chatacters hardly ever shown actual combat speed like that, its mostly reaction speed or charges not constant fighting at super speeds.

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#16 Posted by HigherPower (12176 posts) - - Show Bio

Chibaku Tensei'd at Nagato. Goku has shit lifting strength for a high tier even during Z, he's not breaking out of an multi-mountain compacting gravity bind because that's easy dozens of billions of tons of rock and he struggled to lift just 40 tons in Buu saga.

Online
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#17 Posted by Dust_Hawk (1464 posts) - - Show Bio

Stop at 5. Minato has Kurama.

P.S. Nagato can also enlarge the Chibaku Tensei if Goku tries to escape from it...which is pretty impossible since an injured Deva/sick Nagato was able to create a flying island with a dozen of mountains. He also stated that Deva was able to enlarge it in order to block KN8 Naruto.

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#18 Posted by Marshall_Long (5648 posts) - - Show Bio

Stops at 9

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#19 Posted by Chronicplane (8817 posts) - - Show Bio

Stops at 7 or 8

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#20 Posted by jasonhitto (1341 posts) - - Show Bio

Stop at 9

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#21 Edited by Helloman (28525 posts) - - Show Bio

He stops at Madara.

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#22 Edited by Marc_55 (5857 posts) - - Show Bio

@valor_175: DB Goku is faster than Minato? Feats pls. After you provide those, tell me how they apply to KCM Minato as well.

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#23 Edited by ValorKnight (12213 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_vulcan said:

Chibaku Tensei'd at Nagato. Goku has shit lifting strength for a high tier even during Z, he's not breaking out of an multi-mountain compacting gravity bind because that's easy dozens of billions of tons of rock and he struggled to lift just 40 tons in Buu saga.

He doesn't need lifting strength, as projecting his Ki outwards would get the job done just as well. I do agree that he would run into some difficuties at Nagato, though.

@easterlin74 said:

@valor_175: End of DB Goku is not as fast as Minato but probably stronger. Minato might lose still.

Erm...no. Even as a child, Goku was able to react to and catch a Dragon Ball as it was blasting away (these are the same Dragon Balls that reach the ends of the Earth nigh instantly). He's definitely stronger, but Minato was never really a physical fighter in the same vein as Son to begin with.

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#24 Edited by ValorKnight (12213 posts) - - Show Bio

@marc_55 said:

@valor_175: DB Goku is faster than Minato? Feats pls. After you provide those, tell me how they apply to KCM Minato as well.

As others have said, Goku was invisible to other lightning-timers and was able to, as a child, react to and catch a Dragon Ball before it could fly away (the Dragon Balls cross the entire planet nigh instantly). KCM Minato has barely any speed feats, and what he does have doesn't quite stack up to Son's own feats. I'm gonna try not to debate in my own thread, however, so I'll leave this to you guys.

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#25 Posted by Marc_55 (5857 posts) - - Show Bio

@marc_55 said:

@valor_175: DB Goku is faster than Minato? Feats pls. After you provide those, tell me how they apply to KCM Minato as well.

As others have said, Goku was invisible to other lightning-timers

Who and when? What are their lightning timing feats?

and was able to, as a child, react to and catch a Dragon Ball before it could fly away (the Dragon Balls cross the entire planet nigh instantly).

Context? Dragon Balls Typically gather, fly upwards, then disperse.

KCM Minato has barely any speed feats, and what he does have doesn't quite stack up to Son.

I'm not seeing why even base Minato would be so out of his league. This also still doesn't explain how he's tagging him, considering FTG is what I was referring to from the very beginning.

I'm gonna try not to debate in my own thread, however, so I'll leave this to you guys.

Then what was the point in responding to me?

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#26 Edited by ValorKnight (12213 posts) - - Show Bio

@marc_55 said:
@valor_175 said:
@marc_55 said:

@valor_175: DB Goku is faster than Minato? Feats pls. After you provide those, tell me how they apply to KCM Minato as well.

As others have said, Goku was invisible to other lightning-timers

Who and when? What are their lightning timing feats?

and was able to, as a child, react to and catch a Dragon Ball before it could fly away (the Dragon Balls cross the entire planet nigh instantly).

Context? Dragon Balls Typically gather, fly upwards, then disperse.

KCM Minato has barely any speed feats, and what he does have doesn't quite stack up to Son.

I'm not seeing why even base Minato would be so out of his league. This also still doesn't explain how he's tagging him, considering FTG is what I was referring to from the very beginning.

I'm gonna try not to debate in my own thread, however, so I'll leave this to you guys.

Then what was the point in responding to me?

Goku was moving faster than Kame Sen'nin could react to on multiple occasions, the same Kame Sen'nin who was able to have an entire drawn out fight in less than a second (while suppressed, no less).

They do, but this time it was a bit different:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

We clearly see that Goku jumps after they had already begun to fly away. Considering the Dragon Ball's past showings of speed, this is better than any feat that Minato has ever performed.

Flying Raijin won't be as useful as you're making it sound, as it can be worked around with Son's Zanzoken, as well as because he can't damage Goku at all without a Bijuu Dama (which he doesn't use in character or at all from what we've seen).

It would have been rather rude if I hadn't, don't you think?

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#27 Posted by Marc_55 (5857 posts) - - Show Bio

@marc_55 said:

Goku was moving faster than Kame Sen'nin could react to on multiple occasions, the same Kame Sen'nin who was able to have an entire drawn out fight in less than a second (while suppressed, no less).

So? How is this impressive, or lightning timing?

They do, but this time it was a bit different:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

We clearly see that Goku jumps after they had already begun to fly away. Considering the Dragon Ball's past showings of speed, this is better than any feat that Minato has ever performed.

That seems equivalent to aim dodging, in that he watched their movements before taking off, then caught it as it began to. However, while a great feat, isn't a bit inconsistent?

Flying Raijin won't be as useful as you're making it sound,

You say this, but then what you say after doesn't explain how this is remotely true.

as he can't damage Goku at all without a Bijuu Dama (which he doesn't use in character or at all from what we've seen).

Not only does he use TBB, as he did with Naruto, he also has giant avatar sized Rasegans, which more than do the trick. He could also warp any projectile attacks back at Goku, with FTG.

It would have been rather rude if I hadn't, don't you think?

No.

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#28 Edited by Cosmic_Lantern (5668 posts) - - Show Bio

Uh what? what sort of dope are you smoking suggesting Guy can't beat kid Goku and that it even being remotely questionable that Minato can beat him.....

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#29 Edited by Marc_55 (5857 posts) - - Show Bio
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#30 Posted by ValorKnight (12213 posts) - - Show Bio

@marc_55 said:
@valor_175 said:
@marc_55 said:

Goku was moving faster than Kame Sen'nin could react to on multiple occasions, the same Kame Sen'nin who was able to have an entire drawn out fight in less than a second (while suppressed, no less).

So? How is this impressive, or lightning timing?

They do, but this time it was a bit different:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

We clearly see that Goku jumps after they had already begun to fly away. Considering the Dragon Ball's past showings of speed, this is better than any feat that Minato has ever performed.

That seems equivalent to aim dodging, in that he watched their movements before taking off, then caught it as it began to. However, while a great feat, isn't a bit inconsistent?

Flying Raijin won't be as useful as you're making it sound,

You say this, but then what you say after doesn't explain how this is remotely true.

as he can't damage Goku at all without a Bijuu Dama (which he doesn't use in character or at all from what we've seen).

Not only does he use TBB, as he did with Naruto, he also has giant avatar sized Rasegans, which more than do the trick. He could also warp any projectile attacks back at Goku, with FTG.

It would have been rather rude if I hadn't, don't you think?

No.

What? A suppressed Roshi was able to have an entire fight, stop to strategize, stop again to play a game, and have a short conversation with Krillen in literally less than a second. The audience he completely disappeared to had all been able to see MFTE combatants fight as well, so there's that too. Goku was gone from this same character's point of view on more than one occasion earlier on in the series.

No, it definitely isn't, as he didn't attempt to jump until after the Balls began moving outwards and was still able to react to them regardless. Nope, as Goku has similar feats earlier on (or after, I honestly can't remember, but it all took place in Dragon Ball), such as outrunning a flash of light from Tenshinhan's Taiyoken.

It does.

Okay? He isn't fast enough, and his damage output isn't enough to put Son down (especially not with such large, easily avoided attacks).

@cosmic_lantern said:

Uh what? what sort of dope are you smoking suggesting Guy can't beat kid Goku and that it even being remotely questionable that Minato can beat him.....

You were the same guy that argued for Sasuke beating Frieza, so I'm honestly not surprised by this comment.

Like I said previously, though, this will be my last post debating in this thread.

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#31 Posted by Cosmic_Lantern (5668 posts) - - Show Bio
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#32 Posted by Marc_55 (5857 posts) - - Show Bio

@marc_55 said:

What? A suppressed Roshi was able to have an entire fight, stop to strategize, stop again to play a game, and have a short conversation with Krillen in literally less than a second. The audience he completely disappeared to had all been able to see MFTE combatants fight as well, so there's that too. Goku was gone from this same character's point of view on more than one occasion earlier on in the series.

My question still stands.

No, it definitely isn't, as he didn't attempt to jump until after the Balls began moving outwards and was still able to react to them regardless. Nope, as Goku has similar feats earlier on (or after, I honestly can't remember, but it all took place in Dragon Ball), such as outrunning a flash of light from Tenshinhan's Taiyoken.

Are you implying Goku is FTL?

It does.

How? You say FTG won't help, but then don't say anything regarding FTG immediately after that.

Okay? He isn't fast enough,

Has yet to be proven.

and his damage output isn't enough to put Son down

Casually multi mountain to island level attacks aren't enough? Why, exactly?

(especially not with such large, easily avoided attacks).

I don't think you understand how TBB work, if you think this is the case. Nor did you address Minato warping his attacks back at him, or just teleporting his own directly into him.

@marc_55 said:

@cosmic_lantern: Have you ever actually smoke weed before?

Maybe......

That's not surprising.

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#33 Posted by ValmousXII (439 posts) - - Show Bio

8. Don't argue with me

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#34 Posted by ValorKnight (12213 posts) - - Show Bio

8. Don't argue with me

You're asking others not to debate with you...on a debate site?

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#35 Edited by Cosmic_Lantern (5668 posts) - - Show Bio

@marc_55: Oddly enough, some of my best debating material comes from being heavily intoxicated....I'm only rude when i'm sober. When im in that mode though I feel as if I could probably argue that the Statue of liberty is a swimsuit model, I plan on revealing the man behind the vine that is CL pretty soon actually. The few users here that know me outside of CV (Be it IRL, Snap, PSN, IG, etc.) know im not always an ass....so it may not be a complete shock that I am indeed a weekend warrior.

O/T though, he isn't beating Guy and i'm even second guessing that he beats Naruto/Sasuke

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#37 Posted by ValmousXII (439 posts) - - Show Bio

@valmousxii said:

8. Don't argue with me

You're asking others not to debate with you...on a debate site?

Problem?

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#38 Edited by Marc_55 (5857 posts) - - Show Bio

@valor_175 said:
@valmousxii said:

8. Don't argue with me

You're asking others not to debate with you...on a debate site?

Problem?

Only insofar as that makes absolutely no sense.

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#39 Edited by Criostomp (256 posts) - - Show Bio

Round 1: Goku roflstomps

Round 2: Goku roflstomps Sasuke, though Naruto may take longer if he's using his Kyuubi chakra cloak...the 1 tailed form. But Goku still takes it without that much trouble.

Round 3: Blows are gonna be traded, but Goku's strength, power, and endurance will win the day

Round 4: If Kisame doesn't fuse with Samehada, it's a roflstomp. If he does and he turns the area into water, Goku will be forced to use the Kamehameha, but that's gonna obliterate Kisame without any trouble.

Round 5: Minato does stand a chance here. He could definitely surprise Goku with his teleporting and if he's lucky, maybe even kill him with a well-placed rasengan. But at the tournament, Goku tanked attacks from Piccolo that were much more powerful than a rasengan and Goku was barely phased so IDK about that. But if he does this twice and fails, Goku will catch on and it won't work anymore. Nothing has ever worked on Goku more than twice. I still say Goku 9/10

Round 6: Assuming Nagato can use all the OTHER Rinnegan powers except soul stealing, he stands a fairly decent chance. Goku will actually have to try for this one. The kamehameha won't be so effective if he can absorb energy. Goku has to rely on his speed for surprise attacks, but one or two good shots should do it.

Round 7: With no genjutsu, Madara doesn't stand a chance. With genjutsu, I think Goku would be done for.

Round 8: Stomp, but Goku will have to use a lot of energy

I have no clue who 9 and 10 are

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#40 Edited by BeaconofStrength (12487 posts) - - Show Bio

Actually, now that I think about it, Goku is in no way fast enough to keep up with Minato.

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#41 Posted by ValorKnight (12213 posts) - - Show Bio

Round 1: Goku roflstomps

Round 2: Goku roflstomps Sasuke, though Naruto may take longer if he's using his Kyuubi chakra cloak...the 1 tailed form. But Goku still takes it without that much trouble.

Round 3: Blows are gonna be traded, but Goku's strength, power, and endurance will win the day

Round 4: If Kisame doesn't fuse with Samehada, it's a roflstomp. If he does and he turns the area into water, Goku will be forced to use the Kamehameha, but that's gonna obliterate Kisame without any trouble.

Round 5: Minato does stand a chance here. He could definitely surprise Goku with his teleporting and if he's lucky, maybe even kill him with a well-placed rasengan. But at the tournament, Goku tanked attacks from Piccolo that were much more powerful than a rasengan and Goku was barely phased so IDK about that. But if he does this twice and fails, Goku will catch on and it won't work anymore. Nothing has ever worked on Goku more than twice. I still say Goku 9/10

Round 6: Assuming Nagato can use all the OTHER Rinnegan powers except soul stealing, he stands a fairly decent chance. Goku will actually have to try for this one. The kamehameha won't be so effective if he can absorb energy. Goku has to rely on his speed for surprise attacks, but one or two good shots should do it.

Round 7: With no genjutsu, Madara doesn't stand a chance. With genjutsu, I think Goku would be done for.

Round 8: Stomp, but Goku will have to use a lot of energy

I have no clue who 9 and 10 are

Thank you for actually stating reasons.

9 and 10 are the primary antagonists of The Last movie, and you can find their feats by searching them on YouTube.

Actually, now that I think about it, Goku is in no way fast enough to keep up with Minato.

Based on what?

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#42 Posted by Marc_55 (5857 posts) - - Show Bio

@criostomp said:

I have no clue who 9 and 10 are

Thank you for actually stating reasons.

9 and 10 are the primary antagonists of The Last movie, and you can find their feats by searching them on YouTube.

Boruto, actually.

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#43 Posted by ValorKnight (12213 posts) - - Show Bio

@marc_55 said:
@valor_175 said:
@criostomp said:

I have no clue who 9 and 10 are

Thank you for actually stating reasons.

9 and 10 are the primary antagonists of The Last movie, and you can find their feats by searching them on YouTube.

Boruto, actually.

Ah, my bad then.

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#44 Posted by killers10333 (3416 posts) - - Show Bio

Goku wins

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#45 Posted by ValorKnight (12213 posts) - - Show Bio
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#46 Posted by killers10333 (3416 posts) - - Show Bio

@valor_175: i think so, hes faster and stronger in every way

I believe he wasnt even scratched by a nuke level attack, and that was before he was an adult (iirc). Based on this, no character up to madara is even scratching him. His speed and strength would kill madara and hashirama before they have a chance to react. The only issue are the otsutsuki people, but they were beaten by attacks similar to what goku can perform, but by people much slower

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#47 Edited by iUseMyCajonas (4195 posts) - - Show Bio

So funny how the tables have turned. Naruto Debaters not even arguing with feats while the Dragon Ball Debaters have only given feats.

Add that with biggest cop out argument from people debating agaisnt DB ever in the form of “Muh Inconsistent” for every single feat ever given in the Dragon Ball Franchise and you have yourself a super amusing thread with a bunch of delusional people that think people below Kinshiki in power are operating anywhere near lightning speed.

...But Goku clears but actually has to try for the last few.

*edit: He actually stomp clears, I didn’t see bloodlusted

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#48 Posted by ValorKnight (12213 posts) - - Show Bio

@valor_175: i think so, hes faster and stronger in every way

I believe he wasnt even scratched by a nuke level attack, and that was before he was an adult (iirc). Based on this, no character up to madara is even scratching him. His speed and strength would kill madara and hashirama before they have a chance to react. The only issue are the otsutsuki people, but they were beaten by attacks similar to what goku can perform, but by people much slower

Gotcha, thanks for your insight.

So funny how the tables have turned. Naruto Debaters not even arguing with feats while the Dragon Ball Debaters have only given feats.

Add that with biggest cop out argument from people debating agaisnt DB ever in the form of “Muh Inconsistent” for every single feat ever given in the Dragon Ball Franchise and you have yourself a super amusing thread with a bunch of delusional people that think people below Kinshiki in power are operating anywhere near lightning speed.

...But Goku clears but actually has to try for the last few.

*edit: He actually stomp clears, I didn’t see bloodlusted

While I semi-agree with the beginning of this post, it is absolutely ridiculous to insinuate that no Naruto character below Kinshiki is faster than lightning. I also do not agree with Son stomping anyone above Nagato, as they have what it takes to give him a good enough fight.

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#49 Posted by iUseMyCajonas (4195 posts) - - Show Bio

@iusemycajonas said:

So funny how the tables have turned. Naruto Debaters not even arguing with feats while the Dragon Ball Debaters have only given feats.

Add that with biggest cop out argument from people debating agaisnt DB ever in the form of “Muh Inconsistent” for every single feat ever given in the Dragon Ball Franchise and you have yourself a super amusing thread with a bunch of delusional people that think people below Kinshiki in power are operating anywhere near lightning speed.

...But Goku clears but actually has to try for the last few.

*edit: He actually stomp clears, I didn’t see bloodlusted

While I semi-agree with the beginning of this post, it is absolutely ridiculous to insinuate that no Naruto character below Kinshiki is faster than lightning. I also do not agree with Son stomping anyone above Nagato, as they have what it takes to give him a good enough fight.

Yeah... No it's not. Every single calc for any feat in the show doesn't get them anywhere close to the speed of lightning. The only time speeds around lightning are acheived are when Kirin is used and Guy only while using the Night Guy.

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#50 Posted by The_Stern_ritter (566 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't see how not having genjutsu would change much, PS rapes either way

He stops at Nagato probably

Not seeing how he magically tanks CST or a CT that tanked a TBB from the 6 tails through a weaker iteration known as pein( since Nagato>>>>Pein was outright stated)

He gets stomped by Madara