Solomon Grundy (Arrow) vs. Bane (Dark Knight Rises)

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CF12793

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After watching last night's episode of "Arrow", I figured this was a good battle. Bane might be strong, but does he have the strength to take down Cyrus Gold aka Solomon Grundy?

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Rules:

Random encounter for both.

Takes place where Bane fought Batman in "The Dark Knight Rises" for the first time.

Who takes it?

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rogueshadow

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#2 rogueshadow  Moderator

Bane gets his comparably puny ass stomped.

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Fallschirmjager

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Dude. Brother Cryus kicked Ollie like 20 feet up into the air. lol.

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CF12793

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Dude. Brother Cryus kicked Ollie like 20 feet up into the air. lol.

Aware of that, but Bane is stronger and more durable then Ollie.

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#5  Edited By Fallschirmjager

@cf12793 said:

@fallschirmjager said:

Dude. Brother Cryus kicked Ollie like 20 feet up into the air. lol.

Aware of that, but Bane is stronger and more durable then Ollie.

Not really. Bane didn't do anything that wasn't peak human and Ollie has displayed more than peak human on occasion.

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Wolverine008

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Grundy.

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CF12793

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@fallschirmjager: What feats put Ollie above Bane in strength? From everything I've seen, there's nothing to suggest Ollie is more then just a really well-trained human. Not saying Bane is superhuman, but I think he's definitely stronger then Ollie.

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ownagepants

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#8  Edited By ownagepants

Cyrus's very first feat proves how many leagues ahead of bane he is but this is not really fair either way the dark knight universe is made to be realistic so their are no people above peak human in it the Arrow verse has already proved that not to be the case for them.

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CF12793

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cyrus's very first feat proves how many leagues ahead of bane he is but this is not really fair either way the dark knight universe is made to be realistic so their are no people above peak human in it the Arrow verse has already proved that not to be the case for them.

Bane is a better fighter than Grundy, and he would be able to tag him just like Ollie was able to tag him multiple times even before the Arrows were through his feet.

Grundy's strong, there's no doubt about it, but Bane definitely has the edge in skill and speed.

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Fallschirmjager

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@cf12793 said:

@fallschirmjager: What feats put Ollie above Bane in strength? From everything I've seen, there's nothing to suggest Ollie is more then just a really well-trained human. Not saying Bane is superhuman, but I think he's definitely stronger then Ollie.

In raw strength - maybe. But in every other category he's better. He's been able to nearly run down a motorcycle. He's at-least an arrow timer. And he's way more durable, taking beatings from Malcolm several times (who was at least as strong as Bane - they both punched a hole concrete) He's also way better skilled.

And Brother Cyrus, wtfpwned him.

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dondave

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#11  Edited By dondave

Grundy

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TrueMoonchilde

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@cf12793 said:

@fallschirmjager said:

Dude. Brother Cryus kicked Ollie like 20 feet up into the air. lol.

Aware of that, but Bane is stronger and more durable then Ollie.

Not really. Bane didn't do anything that wasn't peak human and Ollie has displayed more than peak human on occasion.

I've seen every episode (except last nights which I have DVR'd) and can't think of a single thing that would suggest Ollie is above peak human. Hell, I'd even say he's not even at peak-human, just very close to it. Malcom Merlyn would probably be peak human, and so far he's always been shown to be above Ollie in just about everything.

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CF12793

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@cf12793 said:

@fallschirmjager: What feats put Ollie above Bane in strength? From everything I've seen, there's nothing to suggest Ollie is more then just a really well-trained human. Not saying Bane is superhuman, but I think he's definitely stronger then Ollie.

In raw strength - maybe. But in every other category he's better. He's been able to nearly run down a motorcycle. He's at-least an arrow timer. And he's way more durable, taking beatings from Malcolm several times (who was at least as strong as Bane - they both punched a hole concrete) He's also way better skilled.

And Brother Cyrus, wtfpwned him.

I didn't mean who had the better physicals overall, I was talking about strength and durability specifically. Running down a motorcycle is irrelevant when it comes to talking strength.

You're forgetting how easily Bane beat Batman, who is also a peak human as well as he was also wearing body armor. Bane still showed that he had the edge in physicals over Batman.

Yeah, because Ollie wasn't able to tag him multiple times and shoot arrows through his feet...Cyrus only won because of his strength, but Ollie definitely put up a fight against him.

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buttersdaman000

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#14  Edited By buttersdaman000

@cf12793:

The strength difference between Ollie and Bane is negligible. The only thing that matters is that Ollie would whoop Bane in a fight, yet Brother Cyrus still waxed his a$$.

Bane loses...badly

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CF12793

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@cf12793:

The strength difference between Ollie and Bane is negligible. The only thing that matters is that Ollie would whoop Bane in a fight, yet Brother Cyrus still waxed his a$$.

Bane loses...badly

You keep telling yourself that, doesn't make it any more true.

Ollie wouldn't beat Bane. Maybe if he was armed to the teeth and started at a distance further enough so Bane couldn't close the gap in time, but if it was unarmed combat, Bane would beat the crap out of Ollie.

I do think Bane loses, I don't think it's a stomp whatsoever.

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Fallschirmjager

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#16  Edited By Fallschirmjager

@cf12793 said:

@fallschirmjager said:

@cf12793 said:

@fallschirmjager: What feats put Ollie above Bane in strength? From everything I've seen, there's nothing to suggest Ollie is more then just a really well-trained human. Not saying Bane is superhuman, but I think he's definitely stronger then Ollie.

In raw strength - maybe. But in every other category he's better. He's been able to nearly run down a motorcycle. He's at-least an arrow timer. And he's way more durable, taking beatings from Malcolm several times (who was at least as strong as Bane - they both punched a hole concrete) He's also way better skilled.

And Brother Cyrus, wtfpwned him.

I didn't mean who had the better physicals overall, I was talking about strength and durability specifically. Running down a motorcycle is irrelevant when it comes to talking strength.

You're forgetting how easily Bane beat Batman, who is also a peak human as well as he was also wearing body armor. Bane still showed that he had the edge in physicals over Batman.

Yeah, because Ollie wasn't able to tag him multiple times and shoot arrows through his feet...Cyrus only won because of his strength, but Ollie definitely put up a fight against him.

First of all

  • TDKR Batman, isn't peak human. He body was complete shot. They even go over that in the doctor scene, edging Batman out in physicals isn't that impressive
  • Bane at best is peak human. He never displayed anything above it. Cyrus clearly was not, kicking Ollie (who's probably 200-250 lbs), 20 feet into the air.
  • Ollie is faster and more skilled than Bane and even if Bane has a strength advantage its negligible. And Cyrus still destroyed Ollie
  • Cyrus > Ollie > Bane.
@buttersdaman000 said:

@cf12793:

The strength difference between Ollie and Bane is negligible. The only thing that matters is that Ollie would whoop Bane in a fight, yet Brother Cyrus still waxed his a$$.

Bane loses...badly

this too.

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CF12793

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#17  Edited By CF12793

@cf12793 said:

@fallschirmjager said:

@cf12793 said:

@fallschirmjager: What feats put Ollie above Bane in strength? From everything I've seen, there's nothing to suggest Ollie is more then just a really well-trained human. Not saying Bane is superhuman, but I think he's definitely stronger then Ollie.

In raw strength - maybe. But in every other category he's better. He's been able to nearly run down a motorcycle. He's at-least an arrow timer. And he's way more durable, taking beatings from Malcolm several times (who was at least as strong as Bane - they both punched a hole concrete) He's also way better skilled.

And Brother Cyrus, wtfpwned him.

I didn't mean who had the better physicals overall, I was talking about strength and durability specifically. Running down a motorcycle is irrelevant when it comes to talking strength.

You're forgetting how easily Bane beat Batman, who is also a peak human as well as he was also wearing body armor. Bane still showed that he had the edge in physicals over Batman.

Yeah, because Ollie wasn't able to tag him multiple times and shoot arrows through his feet...Cyrus only won because of his strength, but Ollie definitely put up a fight against him.

First of all

  • TDKR Batman, isn't peak human. He body was complete shot. They even go over that in the doctor scene, edging Batman out in physicals isn't that impressive
  • Bane at best is peak human. He never displayed anything above it
  • Ollie is faster and more skilled than Bane and if Bane has a strength advantage its neglible
  • All that being said, Cyrus still destroyed Ollie
  • Cyrus > Ollie > Bane.
@buttersdaman000 said:

@cf12793:

The strength difference between Ollie and Bane is negligible. The only thing that matters is that Ollie would whoop Bane in a fight, yet Brother Cyrus still waxed his a$$.

Bane loses...badly

this too.

  • When did I say Bane was superhuman? I never said he was above peak human, so don't put words in my mouth.
  • Faster, maybe. More skilled, definitely not. Bane has had extensive training with the League of Shadows and was definitely a skilled fighter. I've never seen anything to suggest Ollie being more skilled.
  • Cyrus didn't destroy Ollie, Ollie put up a good fight against him and next week we'll see them fight again. I wouldn't go as far as to say Ollie got "destroyed".
  • Grundy > Bane > Ollie and I have yet to be proven otherwise
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Fallschirmjager

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#18  Edited By Fallschirmjager

@cf12793:

  • You didn't. Cyrus is clearly Superhuman though. Superhuman > peak human at best. That was the point.
  • You don't watch enough Arrow then.
  • KO'd Ollie in 2 shots = getting destroyed
  • lol. Whatever you want to believe. Don't know why you are arguing so hard if you think Cyrus wins. Seem a little biased.

Cyrus still wins. And its not close. Ollie who is faster and more skilled couldn't do anything. A slower, less skilled and maybe stronger Bane isn't going to do anything either. Superhuman > peak human.

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CF12793

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@fallschirmjager: I've seen every episode of Arrow so far, I'm also not even really a fan of the Dark Knight Rises Bane. I'm just clarifying that I don't really think it's a stomp.

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Cyrus wins and LOL at Arrow being peak human...LOLOLOLOLOFXCKINGL. DRK Bane stomps Ollie like he did Batman.

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#21  Edited By Fallschirmjager
@jeanralphio said:

Cyrus wins and LOL at Arrow being peak human...LOLOLOLOLOFXCKINGL. DRK Bane stomps Ollie like he did Batman.

a 40 year old who's body is completely shot < a late 20's something Ollie in peak condition.

Loading Video...

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buttersdaman000

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@cf12793 said:

@buttersdaman000 said:

@cf12793:

The strength difference between Ollie and Bane is negligible. The only thing that matters is that Ollie would whoop Bane in a fight, yet Brother Cyrus still waxed his a$$.

Bane loses...badly

You keep telling yourself that, doesn't make it any more true.

Ollie wouldn't beat Bane. Maybe if he was armed to the teeth and started at a distance further enough so Bane couldn't close the gap in time, but if it was unarmed combat, Bane would beat the crap out of Ollie.

I do think Bane loses, I don't think it's a stomp whatsoever.

And why not? To address this supposed strength difference first:

- Nolan Bane is a far cry from his comic version strength wise. He possesses no super human attributes, and his greatest strength feat was punching off a chunk of concrete. That's something regular humans can do. Bane, at best is peak human. Ollie, on the other hand, has time and time again shown us that he's peak human. He's raced down Motorcycles, performed amazing acrobatic stunts, dodged arrows at close range, and so on. He may not have an outright strength feat, but it's safe to say that he's pretty freaking strong given how built the dude is. So, again, any strength advantage Bane has is negligible.

- Ollie can beat Bane in a thousand different ways. From long range, shoot him with an arrow. From mid range, shoot him with an arrow. From close range, shoot him with an arrow. Throughout the series Ollie has shown that he's master class with his Bow in almost any situation. Now, disregarding the Bow and Arrow, Ollie also has vastly superior skills. Go watch TDKR again. Batman was throwing telegraph haymakers left and right, his moves were sluggish, slow, and predictable. That's the Batman Bane beat. Then, in their last fight, a marginally improved Batman defeated Bane. Also, keep in mind that Batman is about 40 years old and near decrepit during the whole film. Now, Ollie on the other hand is in peak physical condition and fights like Luchador hurricane. The dude is all over the place, throwing out incredibly fast attacks, showing more skill than Batman ever did. Now, compare the two again.

- So now we have Bane vs Brother Cyrus. As many have said before, Brother Cyrus is legit super human. His skin thickness was compared to concrete, he knocked down (and bent) a steel door, he punched Ollie so hard he flew out of a truck, along with the door, from a seated position, he kicked ollie about 15 feet into the air, and then quickly punched him 10 feet as he fell. Bane loses to a decrepit man in his mid 40's..............I think the outcome is obvious

(It ends in a stomp)

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#23  Edited By CF12793

@buttersdaman000:

- I never said that Bane was superhuman, nor did I even imply it. What I said was that Bane is stronger and more durable than Ollie. Acrobatics and speed have nothing to do with strength.

- Ollie's skills don't outclass Bane's. Ollie has made good use of the training he received on the Island, but that training is subpar to the training someone would receive if they were a League of Shadows member.

- Interesting that you pointed out Cyrus has skin thickness compared to concrete, while at the same time saying Bane punched a hole through concrete. Now you're making me think that this could go either way.

- Bale Batman was never in his mid-40's, when was that stated? Maybe that's Christian Bale's age, but Nolan's Batman was supposed to a man in his 30's, or atleast that's what I took away from it. Even though Batman wasn't working at full capacity, he was still a rigorously trained human and he was also wearing body armor.

You may think it's a stomp, but opinions vary depending on who you ask.

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JeanRalphio

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@jeanralphio said:

Cyrus wins and LOL at Arrow being peak human...LOLOLOLOLOFXCKINGL. DRK Bane stomps Ollie like he did Batman.

a 40 year old who's body is completely shot < a late 20's something Ollie in peak condition.

Loading Video...

I wasn't saying he'd beat Ollie because he beat Batman,I was just acknowledgeing that he stomped Bats ass. Still doesn't change the fact that Arrow is not peak human.

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#25  Edited By Fallschirmjager

@cf12793: Batman turns 30 in BB. TDK takes place 12 months after that. TDKR takes place about 8 years after TDK

That puts him at either 39 or 40 depending on specifics.

Also being "trained by the League of Shadows" mean nothing, when none of them outside Ra's shows skill and Bane didn't display very much skill himself.

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CF12793

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#26  Edited By CF12793

@cf12793: Batman turnes 30 in BB. TDK takes place 18 months after that. TDKR takes place about 8 years after TDK

That puts him at either 39-49.

Fair enough, no disputing that.

That seems way too old for Batman, although I guess that's where the connection to "The Dark Knight Returns" comes from.

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#27  Edited By Fallschirmjager

@cf12793: Actually I over guessed it a few months.

In TDK Joker says "lets rewind the clocks back a year, these cops and lawyers wouldn't dare cross any of you" yadda yadda yadda Because Batman...

So he'd be 39 in TDKR. For some reason I remembered 18 months.

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#28  Edited By buttersdaman000

@cf12793 said:

@buttersdaman000:

- I never said that Bane was superhuman, nor did I even imply it. What I said was that Bane is stronger and more durable than Ollie. Acrobatics and speed have nothing to do with strength.

- Ollie's skills don't outclass Bane's. Ollie has made good use of the training he received on the Island, but that training is subpar to the training someone would receive if they were a League of Shadows member.

- Interesting that you pointed out Cyrus has skin thickness compared to concrete, while at the same time saying Bane punched a hole through concrete. Now you're making me think that this could go either way.

- Bale Batman was never in his mid-40's, when was that stated? Maybe that's Christian Bale's age, but Nolan's Batman was supposed to a man in his 30's, or atleast that's what I took away from it. Even though Batman wasn't working at full capacity, he was still a rigorously trained human and he was also wearing body armor.

You may think it's a stomp, but opinions vary depending on who you ask.

- And I said strength was negligible to the point where it shouldn't even be discussed. And, no, Bane is not more durable than Ollie. He hasn't been through half the punishment Ollie has been through.

- Sorry, but on screen, they do. Your point about the LoS is all conjecture. We have no clue just how well trained the LoS is. What we do know is that on screen, neither Batman or Bane fight as impressively or skillfully as Ollie.

- Not really. The concrete comparison just shows you how exactly hard Cyrus' skin is (it bent Ollies arrows). Just because Bane punched out some concrete doesn't mean he can do the same to Cyrus. If that were the case, he should've one-shotted Baleman.

- No, that's not what I took away from it. He's in his 40's. There was an 8 year timeskip between TDK and Rises, and a one year timeskip between Begins and TDK. He started in his 30's.

Yes, and opinions can be wrong when faced with facts

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CF12793

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@buttersdaman000:

You've made your stance, and I've made mine. Clearly either of us are not backing down on what we're thinking, so agree to disagree. I think Grundy would beat Bane, but Bane would put up a fight.

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I generally believe Nolan >Arrow but Bane gets stomped...not as fast as Ollie but still.

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Haven't seen much of what "Brother Cyrus" is fully capable of just yet...but what we have seen makes me think Bane doesn't have much of a chance. Time will tell if there are any weaknesses that Bane could exploit though.

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that guy at the end that beat down arrow was supposed to be Grundy I thought he was bane.

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Eh? This isn't locked yet? Oh...

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CF12793

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Eh? This isn't locked yet? Oh...

Because Bane would put up a decent fight, therefore its not a mismatch.

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aaron_the_great

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@cf12793: Yeah, keep telling yourself that...

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that guy at the end that beat down arrow was supposed to be Grundy I thought he was bane.

Brother Blood called him "Brother Cyrus"
Cyrus Gold was the name of the Man that would later become Solomon Grundy

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@shawnbaby: I just caught the fight at the end I never heard his name I just assumed he was bane because the look.

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#38  Edited By KingAres109

My first time looking at the Arrow series and loved it!!Ollie was fast..He even Dodge Count Vertigo gun fire.So he's much faster than Bane.Lol..I'm tempted to say Bane get one-shotted.Seeing how hard Brother Cyrus punch,all it takes is one or 2 punches to Bane mask and its all she wrote.Its funny that I keep hearing Bane durability is good when his mask came off he was on his knees.Cyrus is much stronger than Bale Batman.And who has Bane beaten to even be qualified as skilled??I'll wait.......... Cyrus FTW!!

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Grundy was very strong. I don't think Bane can fill that much gap.

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#40  Edited By BlackWind

Grundy wins. Felicity even speculated his bone density is tough enough to shrug off arrow fire. And it was proven when he pulled bent arrows out of his skin. Bane may have punched a hole in a wall, but that's very possible in real life, without peak human strength.

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KingAres109

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What other feat does Bane have in TDKR other than punching some concrete off the wall??Who has he beaten that's consider "skilled"??And why is the League Of Shadows considered "skilled"?These are questions that need to be answered by Bane supporters...

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@kingares109: I personally believe it is an unconcious linking to the canon source. For example, people will say Batman is a master martial artist, even if a particular version is not that impressive.

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#43  Edited By KingAres109

@blackwind: Well then that's a bad argument and it makes zero sense.Bane from comics would stomp 3 Banes from TDKR.He's beaten a Batman who had lost all of strength and had very lil skilled to begin with.But Thanx for your input..

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CF12793

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#44  Edited By CF12793

What other feat does Bane have in TDKR other than punching some concrete off the wall??Who has he beaten that's consider "skilled"??And why is the League Of Shadows considered "skilled"?These are questions that need to be answered by Bane supporters...

No one ever made a case for Bane, but to think that Bane is just going to stand there and get pummeled by the super slow Grundy is something I have a problem with believing.

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#45  Edited By CheeseSticks

Grundy stomps

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@cf12793 said:
@kingares109 said:

What other feat does Bane have in TDKR other than punching some concrete off the wall??Who has he beaten that's consider "skilled"??And why is the League Of Shadows considered "skilled"?These are questions that need to be answered by Bane supporters...

No one ever made a case for Bane, but to think that Bane is just going to stand there and get pummeled by the super slow Grundy is something I have a problem with believing.

Grundy isn't slow. Ollie said people with the serum have increased reaction time. The fact that Ollie was dancing around him for a while, before he was caught and destroyed, is only a testament to his speed.

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KingAres109

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@cf12793: Well you're the only one who keeps defending him.And I don't know how many Arrow shows you seen but Cyrus didn't look slow one bit.You might be thinking of the comic character to much.

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CF12793

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@cf12793: Well you're the only one who keeps defending him.And I don't know how many Arrow shows you seen but Cyrus didn't look slow one bit.You might be thinking of the comic character to much.

how many times did Ollie hit Cyrus before Cyrus even laid a finger on him? Even before he had the arrows in his feet, Ollie was still able to tag him.

I'm not defending Bane at all, he doesn't win this fight. Just clearing up some misconceptions I'm seeing a lot on here. Ya'll are acting like Bane is going to just stand there and take a Grundy beating. I'm saying it wouldn't be that simple.

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KingAres109

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@cf12793: Not 1 time have I said Bane would stand around.But he don't have a chance in this fight.