SoD Maul VS Darth Vader (Sabers Only)

Son of Dathomir Maul (Legends)

Suit Darth Vader (Legends)

Location:

Same starting distance in Ahsoka VS Maul.

Round 1: In-Character

Round 2: Bloodlusted.

Bonus: They team up against TCW Sheev (Sabers only). How many rounds out of 10 can they win?

Prime (DT), ROTJ and TFU 2 Vader stomps. Might ragdoll.

Vader. TCW T-Canon Legends Maul I don’t recall really having anything that surpasses Vader. Same with TCW T-Canon Sidious.

Good question. My instinct is to side with Darth Vader, but Darth Maul did acquit himself admirably against the combined force of Masters Mace Windu and Aayla Secura:

Whoever prevails, it'll be quite close. In the TCW-adjacent legends EU, I might give the nodd to the Emperor's first apprentice, if narrowly. Combined, against the Emperor? I'm uncertain.

In Star Wars: The Clone Wars continuity, Darth Maul as he is during the war would eventually lose, but he makes it a grueling challenge. As much as Ahsoka Tano did, if not more-so. And combined, I'm certain they could challenge the Emperor, as Darth Tyranus and Asajj Ventress would have. Perhaps Darth Sidious would eventually emerge on top, but not without notable strain.

Regarding the prequel-adjacent legends EU, distinct from the films and before the intrusions of Star Wars: The Clone Wars, I'd side with Darth Maul. He had maximized his potential as a physical warrior by the time of the Naboo Crisis, eclipsing even his own master -- Darth Sidious, the supreme Dark Lord of the Sith -- in lightsaber proficiency.

In many ways Darth Maul was an exemplary acolyte. His loyalty was unquestionable and unshakable; Sidious knew that, if he were to command it, Maul would sacrifice his life without a second’s hesitation. And his skills as a warrior were nonpareil.

~ Darth Maul: Shadow Hunter

Sidious put his hands on his hips. “Stand, Darth Maul, and face me.” He gave his apprentice a moment to comply before continuing. “Thus far your apprenticeship has been impeccable. You have never wavered in your intent, and you have executed your tasks flawlessly. Your skill as a sword master is peerless.”

~ Darth Maul: Saboteur

Darth Maul was a warrior in his prime, never to be any better, his powers at their apex. In addition, he was driven by his messianic hatred for and disdain of the Jedi Knights, the enemies of the Sith for millennia. He had worked and trained all his life for this moment, for a chance to meet a Jedi Knight in combat. It was an added bonus that he was able to engage two. He had no fear for himself, no doubt that he would win. He was focused in a way that Qui-Gon recognized at once -- a Jedi’s focus, mindful of the present, locked in on what was needed in the here and now. Qui-Gon saw it in his mad eyes and in the set of his red and black tattooed features. The Sith Lord was a living example of what the Jedi Master was always telling Obi-Wan about how best to hear the will of the Force.

~ The Phantom Menace: Senior Novelization

And while characteristic overconfidence eventually cost the deadly Zabrak his life, he still slew the Jedi High Council's most effective field agent -- the legendary, veteran Jedi Master Qui-Gon Jinn, among the highest swordsmen of the Order. Beforehand, Darth Maul even managed to go head-to-head with Jedi Master Anoon Bondara, another legendary warrior and esteemed combat instructor at the Jedi Temple. Considered by many, including Qui-Gon Jinn, to be the Order's most skilled swordmaster, Bondara repeatedly defeated Qui-Gon in sparring competitions:

A Twi'lek, with slender head-tails and a heavily muscled upper body, his name was Anoon Bondara, a duelist of unparalleled skill. Qui-Gon engaged him in matches at every opportunity. For a match with Bondara, no matter how brief, was more instructive than twenty contests against lesser opponents.

~ Cloak of Deception

And even Bondara was outmatched against Darth Maul's mastery of combat.

His whole life has consisted of unimaginably intense instruction in the Sith disciplines, after all. Darth Sidious intended to forge the ultimate warrior, and Maul certainly thought he did.

Darth Sidious had molded him from a weak, puling child into the ultimate warrior, sculpting his body and his mind as a seamless weapon. Maul was willing to die for him, without question and without hesitation. Lord Sidious’s goals were the goals of the Sith, and they would be achieved, no matter what the cost. Maul’s entire existence had consisted of training, of exercise and instruction.

~ Darth Maul: Shadow Hunter

Most notably, a Star Wars Infinities what-if comic issue already covered this kind of match, and Darth Maul outmaneuvered and outfought Darth Vader until the latter was beaten down, and disarmed.

Indeed, Maul would remark that Qui-Gon was a more impressive opponent than Vader:

It's a dangerous, competitive match, but Darth Maul takes out Darth Vader, I should think.

Maul edges him out.

Prime Vader is better in every single catagory, Maul can't even abuse his physicals.

This is a massive stomp for the Dark lord.

How?

Was thinking the same thing, is it confirmed that Legends Vader has a functional phallus for Maul to edge?

Anyway, to elaborate upon why this is a stomp for Vader:

Within a month of the Dark Times, Vader's form had already progressed to the point where he could blitz veteran Jedi masters and stomp a Jedi widely considered to be the most brutal Jedi in the Order by the Clone Wars and one of the finest of the Morgukai (who themselves were considered a match for the average Jedi Knight) pre-training whilst duelling another Jedi Master at the same time.

Within two months, his form had progressed to the point where he could manhandle four Jedi in CQC, killing one in lightsaber combat and ragdolling the other three with the Force, as well as toy with two veteran Jedi Knights using unpredictable tactics, in a display where he used techniques and moves from every form, at every level, to the point where they couldn't do anything to him even as he barely applied himself.

Within three months, he could stomp Celeste Morne, a Jedi Knight with enough strength in the Force to contain one of the Exiles whose knowledge of the Dark Side and Sith Alchemy were legendary and whose techniques had still not been replicated in modern times.

Vader continued to prove at an exponential rate following this, including toying with the likes of Ferus Olin as of 18 BBY and easily matching Sai Cuis, who had previously proved a challenge for his two month-post Mustafar self. This Vader continued to push himself further and further, in order to accomplish his goal of overthrowing Sidious.

Whilst he slowly gave up on this and declined as plot after plot failed and depression and complacency set in in the prelude to ANH, his ANH self was still capable of matching TPM Maul blow for blow, despite Maul's extensive knowledge of his strengths and weaknesses and possessing a weapon that was more difficult for ANH Vader's "clumsy" motions. That Vader << ROTJ Vader in sabers.

Whilst Maul improved, it's near-impossible to say by exactly how much he improved, other than it was significant. As such, ROTJ Vader should have little trouble keeping up with him, especially now that Maul can't exploit the terrain, has no knowledge of his strengths and weaknesses, and doesn't have a saberstaff.

As for power, this should go without saying. ANH Vader alone has already been heavily implied to be > TPM Maul & the Prophets of the Dark Side, so the gap between SoD Maul and ANH Vader is gone by the time the vastly more powerful ROTJ Vader comes about.

As for feats, OT Vader has already deflected turbolaser fire, ripped apart colossal droids, and has canonical superiority to the iteration of Vader who fought ANH Luke possessed by spirit Kenobi (the ROTJ novel succeeds Splinter of the Mind'sEye), chucked about starships, caught, crushed and thrown about TIE fighters moving at sublight speeds, and when fighting a clone of himself, could release another power to level an ancient temple. His feats alone are far beyond that of Maul's.

DT is even stronger than this, feat-wise.

At best, Maul gives ROTJ Vader a good to great fight in sabers and decisively beats ANH Vader, but he's not winning against ROTJ, let alone prime Vader.

Well, it's implied he slept with Lumiya, so...

Vader, should be a decent fight though.

@eredin12: My problem with all that is: how do you explain him struggling with Kenobi in a lightsabers-only scenario as of ANH? I mean, he should have blitzed him considering he grew more powerful over time, which would obviously affect his Force augmentation as well. And we know Kenobi was not in his prime in terms of skill, even if you believe he was somehwat stronger in the Force as of ANH. Unless you'd argue he was holding back quite a lot, that is.

@zapan871: TFU CG notes that Ben kept up with his lightsaber skill. So he’s not that rusty, as well as being more powerful in the Force.

@wolfrazer: Ben only practiced until he believed Luke could protect himself, a state he reached around 5 BBY. Tatooine also heavily ages individuals, with old sayings claiming that a year on Tatooine ages you by three. He was also noted to be out of practice and not as good a mere year later, as saber drills can't compare to combat against a real opponent.

@breakofdawn: He still practiced though and I'm not saying he wasn't going to degrade, but it's not like he stopped when he started to be a hermit.

He still practiced, yes, but he did so by running lightsaber exercises; basically drills that didn't involve fighting another living being. It wouldn't be enough to prevent deterioration, let alone the degradation that came as he aged, or the effects of Tatooine's climate. Even a year after Mustafar, he notes that he's out of practice.

@eredin12:

Vader after TFU2, after all his plans for rebellion against Emperor failed with both Galen/ SK clones and artifacts was at his weakest, most depressed, he recovered good deal of his power when fighting Ben , being confirmed as stronger than on Mustafar, but he was still hindered by several factors, which is why he was not really on his DT/TFU levels power wise , which is why he did not blitz him.

Evidence for Vader being weaker between TFU 2 and ANH? That sounds new to me.

@breakofdawn: Eh I still think he wouldn't have deteriorated by a huge amount, not someone of his skill and prowess. That and the fact as I recall it's noted he still had some pretty good skill in later sources, regardless of his time spent on Tatooine.

But I guess we'll just agree to disagree on this, not too overly important. Maul is a bit handicapped here as I see it anyway.

Maul with minimal difficulty.

Sids stomps.

Vader

almost every Vader lowdiffs to stomps except The Rise of Darth Vader Vader and A New Hope Vader

Canon Vader would stomp Maul in both continuities

oh god, bruh, I quoted the wrong thing. But you still don't know I am well aware that ROTJ Vader is prime?

Oh, but can u send me the 3 things? I only have 2 quotes proving that

Also btw. Grevious> Maul in duelling so this shouldn't even be a matchup. Sheev beats them fairly easy as Maul is basically a non factor in the fight and it's just Vader vs Sheev for most of it

Vader breaks Maul's arms. Maul is more likely to go head to head with Vader try to use strength against strength which is a battle he'll lose.

@eredin12 said:

@darthor: Oh i know that you thought it before, but opinions change after all, i was curious did you for some reason change your mind.

Here it is btw:

Oh of course. Fair. Thanks mate

Well hello there, coming out of retirement just to smack Maul again?

@darthor: Just so you're aware; the only sources stating ROTJ is prime precede DT Vader's creation. No one, not even Chee, knew what the nature of the post-ROTS era nor the DT would look like until after ROTS was written, so using these source books - including that comic, which is around 40 years old - to assert that superiority is rather unusual.

hellothere will come out of retirement to defend Maul

There are also a huge amount of sources saying he grew from DT into ROTJ

@darthor:

HT is not retired, just banned for being a childish forger.

@darthor: No, there are sources saying he grew throughout the OT, and there are sources saying he grew through throughout the DT. There's no direct comparison made between the two eras in growth or power change, save for comments about him being broken and implications of him becoming complacent. Feel free to check for yourself.

Really? Damn ok

so wut u r saying is, he was at his prime in the DT, fell suddenly to a weakened old dude in the OT for no reason, and after a huge amount of growth he still can't surpass his DT incarnation? proof?

Also, just curious, but which quote are you basing his prime being in DT on?

@darthor: It wasn't "sudden". It was a gradual decline into complacency and depression as plot after plot failed and he started to realise that he'd never be able to overthrow Sidious by himself. OT Vader regained some of that fire, but DT's strength came from the fact that his connection to the Force remained similar to Anakin's, who still lived within him. OT Vader recovered some of that fire, but never to the same extent, and by the time of ESB he'd become less focused on improving himself as he was as preparing Luke, who "is Vader's hope" and on whom he rests all of his dreams.

@reaperace: Call it a passion