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#1 Edited by Pokergeist (23180 posts) - - Show Bio
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#2 Posted by Pokergeist (23180 posts) - - Show Bio
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#3 Edited by slimj87d (13287 posts) - - Show Bio

@nickzambuto@slimj87d Calling ya out.

Pretty interesting. I'm not an expert of neither. But I am interested in two experts debating about the feats.

From what I can see, Snake Eyes shows off extreme bursts of speed for prolong periods of time with extremely high levels of martial ability that requires high levels of agility.

Snake seems to rely more on efficient one-two punches that get the job done. Doesn't exert himself if totally unnecessary and manages to beat supernatural enemies with just the basics and a incredible combat prowess. He must be playing a game of chess and be several steps ahead of his opponent

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#4 Edited by nickzambuto (28517 posts) - - Show Bio

FTR I do love Snake Eyes. However I'm not sure if he has the speed to dodge Snake's gunfire and close the gap.

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#5 Posted by Pokergeist (23180 posts) - - Show Bio

@granitesoldier I like your breakdowns, what is your take on this.

FTR I do love Snake Eyes. However I'm not sure if he has the speed to dodge Snake's gunfire and close the gap.

Do not forget the Nanites and Radar Snake has built in him. Or the crazy gear if Thermals, Grenade Types, and Card Board Box.

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#6 Posted by GraniteSoldier (12744 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2:

I don't know Solid's comic feats, so I'll need to do some reading and get back to this. I'm a Snake Eyes fanboy though so even after I read up on Solid I'll try and find a way for Eyes to win. But I'm going to read so I can be fair.

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#7 Posted by Pokergeist (23180 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2:

I don't know Solid's comic feats, so I'll need to do some reading and get back to this. I'm a Snake Eyes fanboy though so even after I read up on Solid I'll try and find a way for Eyes to win. But I'm going to read so I can be fair.

I posted them have at it.

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#8 Posted by nickzambuto (28517 posts) - - Show Bio

Just look at this sexy ass mofo how on Earth could he lose to anyone.

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#9 Edited by Pokergeist (23180 posts) - - Show Bio

@nickzambuto: Check it out!

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F**k Batman! lol

Canon Bio posted from Konami's Metal Gear Snakes Revenge!

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#10 Posted by cooljammy18 (1751 posts) - - Show Bio

Just look at this sexy ass mofo how on Earth could he lose to anyone.

MGS4 ruined the sexy chemistry between him and Meryl. :(

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#11 Posted by russellmania77 (17603 posts) - - Show Bio

Snake

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#12 Posted by Pokergeist (23180 posts) - - Show Bio
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#13 Edited by Pokergeist (23180 posts) - - Show Bio

bump

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#14 Posted by SSJGODRED (61 posts) - - Show Bio

I think Solid Snake would win in H2H combat since he's a master of CQC. In a gun fight, Solid Snake with rations would still kill Snake Eyes: He's already defeated Grey Fox- who would curbstomp Snake Eyes any day. And he's defeated Metal Gear Rex and many others who were supernatural (Vamp, Pycho Mantis, etc.) If you disagree fine, replace Solid Snake with Revengence Raiden who would kill Cobra Unit with one slash of his sword. Even for an old man, Snake still kicks ass.

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#15 Posted by Floopay (10573 posts) - - Show Bio

Yeah, Solid Snake ain't touchin that.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

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#16 Posted by GraniteSoldier (12744 posts) - - Show Bio

This is closer than I'd expect (sorry I forgot this thread was here) but I'm going to lean Snake Eyes. Solid and Eyes are both top-notch SpecOps warriors, but Eyes I give the hand to hand edge to Snake Eyes. He goes into gunfights with knives, so to speak, and deflects/dodges the shots and wins. I'd say he's also decently better at hand to hand.

Solid's advantages here are his tech, his nanobot radar etc, and his toughness. Solid can take a hell of a beating. If it becomes a drag-out endurance fight, which it very well may, Solid absolutely wins in my opinion. But, Snake Eyes is such an agile, dynamic combatant I don't know if Solid can land a finger on him.

It's close, and I'm sure a case can be made for either, but in the super-soldier smackdown I give Snake Eyes a slim 6/10.

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#17 Edited by Thewhiteronin (1463 posts) - - Show Bio

Solid Snake simply cannot compete with Snake-Eyes in hand-to-hand combat, he dies horribly. Solid Snake's CQC pales in comparison to comic street-levelers' martial arts, he mostly dealt with mediocre fighters throughout the game series never really showing any skill putting him on par of with an actual comic martial arts masters. I'm unaware of his comic feats, so I'll stick with game showings. Indeed, he did fight against Gray Fox in MGS1, but Fox downgraded his physical stats down in order to be equal to Snake's. Even though Snake defeated him, it speaks volumes of Gray Fox's abilities that he was a mediocre fighter at best, only relying on his exoskeleton. Gray Fox could have killed Snake anytime he wanted to, since he slaughtered that hallway of soldiers and had the strength to hold up Metal Gear's leg. He also fought Liquid Snake who had no prior hand-to-hand showings. Snake doesn't really have any great hand-to-hand showings to even put him in Snake-Eyes league. Solid Snake at his prime struggled to fight against Liquid Snake in Hand-to-Hand to the extent where he was nearly killed by Liquid. No offense to Solid Snake fans, but I think many fans blow his "CQC" skills out of proportion, some Solid Snake fans even had the audacity to put him up against Deathstroke. Snake-Eyes is a bonafide bullet-timer, has flipped tanks under duress, swung his sword so quickly that it burst into flames, and has taken control of a transformer through mind-control (I realize that this may not be canon, but that's a damn impressive feat). My conclusion is that Snake-Eyes stomps, Solid Snake stands no chance. Snake-Eyes wastes no time in killing opponents, as soon as Solid Snake closes in, Snake gets a katana in the face. Here are some scans of his abilities (courtesy of the Snake-Eyes respect thread on CV): EDIT: Just realized that we have to evaluate the comic versions of each. I don't really feel like looking through the lengthy Solid Snake respect thread, so if someone could post feats of his hand-to-hand and how he'll answer to Snake-Eyes bullet timing, I'd appreciate it).

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#18 Edited by Pokergeist (23180 posts) - - Show Bio

@thewhiteronin: No probs.

Lets look at a being IMO is superior to Snake Eyes.

Cyborg Ninja

Snake vs Cyborg Ninja

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The Cyborg Ninja is insane fast, strong, and has a Sword that cut anything. Take note, as Snake does not allow that sword to touch him! Snake keeps up fine in a tight space thanks to Speed, Skill, Muscle Memory from years of the best Training, and plain Super Human Genes. In this epic fight, Snake is physically able to match the Ninja. To make this more Impressive is the Cyborg Ninja resume!

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This is Grey Fox. One of the best killers in the world and most accomplish member of Fox Hound. At the time he was leagues better than Snake in rankings. On top of this, Fox was already Super Human before being a Cyborg Ninja. Just to grasp how Good Jaeger is, lets look a little at Snake battles with the greatest Mercenary in the World.

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In Metal Gear 2, Snake defeated Gray Fox piloting the Metal Gear itself, then beat Fox in Hand to Hand. Even after the brutal mission Snake been through, he prevails! Frank Jaeger is no mere mercenary either, he was super human before all this!

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Null is Gray Foxe's old name. A Super Human in speed and skill. Snake battled this guy and defeated him when he was still a non Cyborg Ninja with super human attributes in Metal Gear 2. Whats really impressive is in the Shadow moses fight Snake had kept up in speed, out skilled the best, and top it off actually had the strength and moves to harm Grey Fox as the Cyborg Ninja. Just read below.

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As I said, the Cyborg Ninja is insane fast. The Cyborg Ninja simply moves much faster than mass amount of Mach 2 Bullets at 10 feet distance.

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Snake confronts the Cyborg Ninja, and fights him H2H. I am pretty sure Gray Fox held back his strength to make the fight fair for Snake, just as he wanted to fight Snake with no weapons. However what needs to be noted is the Cyborg Ninja Gray Fox even before becoming the machine was super human fast and skilled. Snake beats him.

Vamp

Snake vs Vamp

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Snake vs Vamp is unique difference of IDW Comics to the Games. Simply because in this retelling he fights snake rather than Raiden. Woods and Kojima both felt the fans would not invested cash into Raiden since Raiden was so frown upon in the game. I say good on them for noticing.

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Vamp is as much a bad@$$ in the IDW Comics as he is in the Game. He still has all the skill abilities he shows in MGS4. Like that insane Healing Factor.

Vamp is all shades of holy crap as he is in the Game. In the Game its explain why he seems so fast.

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He still must be extremely fast, however not faster than bullets as we see. What makes it more impressive however is he can read your muscles at insane speeds and counter any move you make in turn. He also has a Nanonite Regen that makes him near immortal.

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Clearly seen when shot in the Head not once, but twice! Still comes back in MGS4 to challenge Raiden no less.

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In the Comics Raiden never makes it to Emma. Snake has to retrieve her and beats Vamp in a simple quick Throat Cut move. Showing off that speed and skill of Snake. Again this is impressive because this is still the same Vamp who would later on in a few years battle Cyborg Ninja Raiden!

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That is what Snake had beaten with no awesome Cyborg powers.

Solidus

Snake vs Solidus

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Finally we have Solidus. Another Clone and one with as much skill and experience as Snake himself.

Solidus has been starting and waging wars for years while Solid and Liquid were both training. On top of this he is wearing a Exo Suit that enhances his stats far beyond Snakes own.

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Solidus suit and skill is enough swipe down Heavy fire from Metal Gear Ray! Just to show how fast and beastly he is.

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Solidus easily beats Raiden. Snake with the sword, a weapon we know he is not the best with, defeats Solidus who has his Cyborg Ninja Suit to amp his already Super Human stats. We know Snake was stripped of all weapon before this, so he must had use the sword.

As well Liquid.

Snake vs Liquid

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Liquid is no freaking joke!

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Here Snake is flat out dodging the attacks of Liquid in a Hind Attack Gunboat, who just shot down 2 F-16 Fighter Jets down with a Snowstorm! He is dodging all this and manages to Stinger Missile the Copter while Die Hard style roping off the building!

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Snakes final showdown is with Liquid Snake piloting Rex. The new Metal Gear.

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Rex is a beast of a machine. Snake with the help of Grey Fox brings it down.

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After Rex goes down Snake Blacks out and wakes up. Here he bests Liquid in H2H. What makes this impressive the most is Snake has been wounded, tortured, and fighting a gauntlet of Super Humans and still has the stamina, skill, and strength to beat Liquid in hand to hand.

As seen Snake Hand to hand is one of the best. And he should be. The guy is a Super Soldier with the best training i the world.

Solid Snake

Lets look at Solid Snake's Bio in order.

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Which gives us our current hero of IDW Comics

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Solid Snake has a 180 IQ, near Super Human physical abilities, and is considered one of the best Martial Artist / Marksmen in the world.

Add to this his Gear he is packing.

Cutting Edge Gear

He also has a host of awesome gear.

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His Nanites allow him to never suffer severe Stamina issues as well heal quickly. He also has built in Radar system that tracks bio signatures.

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Flash Bangs that will Blind and Deafen a target area. Chaff Grenades that disrupt Radar, Heat Seeking, and all Electronic Devices. Nikita Missile Launcher which is a Guided Missile. Stealth Suit which bends light around the wearer. Stun Grenades are design to KO a peak human target like Meryl here. Thermal HVGs which can be used to find targets or used to dance over Laser Grids.

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Full List of the Gear he aquires in the Games which are also present in the comics.

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Including the fame Stealth Unit.

This is all Standard Gear for Solid Snake. Gear he used many time to bring down Super Humans. The best part is the Stealth Unit to Improve Snakes own insane Sneaking skills as well his Radar that will detect Snake Eyes.

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#19 Edited by Pokergeist (23180 posts) - - Show Bio
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#20 Posted by GraniteSoldier (12744 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2:

I'll debate myself here for a moment, just so I can prove to myself I wasn't Snake Eyes fanboying (if I may be so indulged). I don't see this being a ranged battle. Solid has outmaneuvered gunshots, and Eyes has both out-maneuvered and deflected them. I see this being a melee fight. To my own point before, I think Solid is tougher and has longer endurance. He has been captured and tortured, using some pretty extreme methods, and not given in or died. That is incredible toughness. Now Eyes can't be taken down easily, but the fact is even with just a knife Solid can hold his own in battle against enhanced super-humans. He could probably take and dish out more overall than Eyes.

But this is just my own counter argument, I still think Snake Eyes takes a very, very slim majority.

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#21 Posted by Pokergeist (23180 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2:

I'll debate myself here for a moment, just so I can prove to myself I wasn't Snake Eyes fanboying (if I may be so indulged). I don't see this being a ranged battle. Solid has outmaneuvered gunshots, and Eyes has both out-maneuvered and deflected them. I see this being a melee fight. To my own point before, I think Solid is tougher and has longer endurance. He has been captured and tortured, using some pretty extreme methods, and not given in or died. That is incredible toughness. Now Eyes can't be taken down easily, but the fact is even with just a knife Solid can hold his own in battle against enhanced super-humans. He could probably take and dish out more overall than Eyes.

But this is just my own counter argument, I still think Snake Eyes takes a very, very slim majority.

IMO Solid shows great Aptitude for range attacks and setting traps. With Claymores and C4 as well Stun Grenades, you can never count Snake out for tricks.

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1) Stun Grenade on Mind controle Meryl. 2-4) Claymore under Tank and Grenade follow up. 5-6) Claymore trap on Raven followed by head shots. 7-8) C4 left in Train to take out the rest. 9-10) Stun Grenade on Sniper Wolf to close distance.

He uses his tools to disengage or engage a target.

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#22 Posted by GraniteSoldier (12744 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2:

Oh yeah, he definitely has the stealth advantage to do so as well, considering his suit and his nanomachines. He can avoid Snake Eyes as Eyes gets close to him.

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#23 Posted by Pokergeist (23180 posts) - - Show Bio

Bump

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#24 Posted by nickzambuto (28517 posts) - - Show Bio

@granitesoldier: I respect your breakdown, but personally disagree about your statement of this turning into a CQC fight. David wouldn't let that happen, CQC might be a staple of his character, but regardless, it's always supposed to be an absolute last resort. Snake states as much several times. He always prefers to either sneak around his opponents, setting traps and fighting smartly, or if that's not an option, shoot them. In fact throughout the entire series canon, of the dozens of boss battles Snake has won, he's canonically only used his fists a total of 5 times; two of which were in the MSX games. So in-character with standard gear, David would more likely try to take cover and rely on his stealth skills and shoot Snake Eyes by surprise. I understand the ninja is a bullet timer, but Snake tags bullet timers all the time, who in my opinion are faster than Snake Eyes (Vamp and Olga).

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#25 Posted by Pokergeist (23180 posts) - - Show Bio

Nice

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#26 Posted by Pokergeist (23180 posts) - - Show Bio

Nice

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#27 Posted by nickzambuto (28517 posts) - - Show Bio

Nice

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#28 Posted by Lunacyde (26550 posts) - - Show Bio

@granitesoldier: I respect your breakdown, but personally disagree about your statement of this turning into a CQC fight. David wouldn't let that happen, CQC might be a staple of his character, but regardless, it's always supposed to be an absolute last resort. Snake states as much several times. He always prefers to either sneak around his opponents, setting traps and fighting smartly, or if that's not an option, shoot them. In fact throughout the entire series canon, of the dozens of boss battles Snake has won, he's canonically only used his fists a total of 5 times; two of which were in the MSX games. So in-character with standard gear, David would more likely try to take cover and rely on his stealth skills and shoot Snake Eyes by surprise. I understand the ninja is a bullet timer, but Snake tags bullet timers all the time, who in my opinion are faster than Snake Eyes (Vamp and Olga).

Yes, SS is going to try to take SE out via stealth and traps, it is just logical that he would do so given his character. However that may be difficult against a foe who is similarly stealthy, and has shown enhanced perception and senses on multiple occasions, including the ability to fight blind. His tech obviously gives SS the advantage, but that doesn't mean he will necessarily stealth kill SE by any means.

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#29 Posted by DwightSpitz (594 posts) - - Show Bio

Snake makes it a Solid victory.

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#30 Edited by NinjaWarrior268 (10999 posts) - - Show Bio

SE. He can more like Raiden or Ryu than SS. Also, IDW is making a Transformers vs Joe but it's not canon with the mainstream comics

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#31 Posted by colliderz (4743 posts) - - Show Bio
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#32 Posted by Lunacyde (26550 posts) - - Show Bio

How does the nanobot radar work precisely? Is it a motion detector type set-up?

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#33 Edited by Gojira2014 (2087 posts) - - Show Bio

@lunacyde said:

How does the nanobot radar work precisely? Is it a motion detector type set-up?

Never specified.

Its a radar that has detected people with or without nanites whether they move or not. It also detects cameras and such for no real explain reason as well. It can also detect landmines and such with a added ability.

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This is how the comic describes it too. Says he has GPS nanites and will show up green. However this system again works on people with no known nanites, including Johnny who is in the first and second game. Johnny has never had Nanaites (Stated so himself in MGS4) and shows up on it in the games.

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#34 Edited by slimj87d (13287 posts) - - Show Bio

Is pokergeist cadencev2? What happen to cadencev2?

Is he still alive?

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#35 Posted by DaDivineKing (43810 posts) - - Show Bio

@slimj87d: Our boy Cade was banned for trolling the Naruto fan-base. O_O

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#36 Posted by slimj87d (13287 posts) - - Show Bio

@dccomicsrule2011: really? Well that's better than being dead I guess... But it's still feels like he's dead... He didn't come back with another user name? Or is he under cover?

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#37 Edited by DaDivineKing (43810 posts) - - Show Bio

@slimj87d: I think Cade does have a new account. He's keeping it secret though as he's on a IP ban IIRC.

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#38 Posted by slimj87d (13287 posts) - - Show Bio

@dccomicsrule2011: I think Gojira is cadencev2! Both are fans of Snake eyes, Snake, and godzilla.