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#1 Edited by Racob7 (9585 posts) - - Show Bio

Round one

Cicero has one day to booby trap the Ratway, and Karliah has one day to prepare. Karliah must get through the traps and kill Cicero.

Round two

Karliah has one day to booby trap the Dawnstar Sanctuary, and Cicero has one day to prepare. Cicero must get through the traps and kill Karliah.

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Racob has spoken

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#2 Posted by Dratini1331 (7916 posts) - - Show Bio

Karliah has the Nightingale luck, and has the range edge, as well as the weapon and armor edge I think...

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#3 Posted by reikai (6618 posts) - - Show Bio

Cicero is better in a close fight, but Karliah will have an arrow in his throat before he can ever get within range with his daggers. The traps aren't a big deal and Cicero knows the layout of the Sanctuary better than she does. However traps are only for distractions.

Karliah has at least one of the three powers attributed to a Nightingale and will use poison-tipped arrows, as well as keeping an invisibility potion handy. Karliah can become invisible in the shadows and Cicero's flamboyant outfit makes it harder for him to hide.

Karliah takes both scenarios. She can effortlessly avoid all the traps as she has done before and all it takes is a clear shot and Cicero is done for. He may be better up close, but Karliah isn't exactly unskilled. She just knew Mercer Frey was better than she was so engaging him up close was a bad idea. When Mercer used magic to make Karliah and Brynjolf fight each other, they appeared evenly matched until the Dovahkiin killed Mercer and freed them from the spell.

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#4 Posted by XLR87T3 (6384 posts) - - Show Bio

Yeah, Karliah wins both rounds. Not to mention she's hot.

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#5 Posted by Racob7 (9585 posts) - - Show Bio

@xlr87t3: I've never found the Dunmer women attractive for some reason.

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#6 Edited by Laughingstock (1572 posts) - - Show Bio

Ok thanks for the Cicero duckface nightmare.

Now I'm actually thinking Cicero wins both rounds, and here is why. Throughout the DB (Dark Brotherhood) storyline you will find journals in Cicero's quarters inside the sanctuary. While you read through them the beginning ones are long before he arrived at the sanctuary. Cicero was one if the DB's greatest assassins, ever, no joke. In his journal he writes that one of his missions was to kill the "Grand Arena Champion" BY POSING AS A CRAZED FAN AND LEADING HIM INTO THE WOODS TO KILL HIM! YOU WERE THE ARENA CHAMPION IN OBLIVION, YOUR CHARACTER WAS SO POWERFUL IN OBLIVION, CICERO KILLED THEM! REMEMBER THE ADORING FAN COMPANION YOU PICK UP? THAT WAS HIM! Karliah can't measure up here, while you may think she is better in stealth, nothing says he has to wear his outfit. Bring some clothes with him, sit around and pretend like he is a drunkard, while Karliah is looking for Cicero he hops up and "his ugly old head rolled around on the floor!" Decapitation just like Ragnar The Red.

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#7 Edited by gumflabica (3460 posts) - - Show Bio

@xlr87t3: I always found her face really weird and annoying, just that gigantic, bulbous forehead. It's really off putting

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#8 Edited by gumflabica (3460 posts) - - Show Bio

@laughingstock: *this is crimson btw. Didn't know you were a skyrim fan. Cool.*

As much as I love Cicero, oblivion and skyrim are over 200 years apart. The adoring fan was a wood elf, Cicero is an imperial. It was an Easter egg at best, and an amusing one at that, but not one to be taken seriously.

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#9 Posted by Dratini1331 (7916 posts) - - Show Bio

@laughingstock: I don't think that's actually true. Skyrim and Oblivion are 200 years apart, and cicero is just a normal guy. Not only that, but they're entirely different races. The adoring fan is a wood elf, cicero is an imperial. Not only that, but in the actual lore for Skyrim, the hero in Oblivion becomes Sheogorath during the events of Elder Scrolls IV: Shivering Isle, making him actually the Sheogorath you encounter in Skyrim.

Killing a grand champion is certainly something, but he didn't kill the oblivion character.

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#10 Edited by gumflabica (3460 posts) - - Show Bio

@dratini1331: aw f*ck did I steal your post there? Sorry. Sucks when that sh*t happens

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#11 Edited by Laughingstock (1572 posts) - - Show Bio

@gumflabica: Okay I'm breaking into theories here so if I sound like a chimpanzee all burned up, just know that. Maybe Cicero has a connection to Sheograth the God of Madness? Referring back to the journals he wasn't always crazy, he was actually wise, but on his final mission he went after a Jester (Shut up right now) and he quotes that he's not sure if he actually killed him or not? And Daedra's are infamously known for shapeshifiting. After he took out that jester he instantly lost his mind overnight, usually it's a decent into madness, but this was just a snap and he was crazy. If I wasn't so tired I would probably dive into this more so I will put a few more up maybe.

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#12 Edited by Dratini1331 (7916 posts) - - Show Bio

@dratini1331: aw f*ck did I steal your post there? Sorry. Sucks when that sh*t happens

ahahaha no problem XD you were quicker on the trigger, it happens :P I'm only mad about that stuff when it happens in TTT and such >.<

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#13 Posted by gumflabica (3460 posts) - - Show Bio

@laughingstock: That's......... Interesting. And Sheogorath is also your character in oblivion, which could explain part of it.

And one might ask: Why wild a Daedric prince be posing as a jester for no apparent reason? Because he's Sheogorath damnit, that's just the kind of thing he does!

This is all quite interesting to think about, but I don't think the guys down at Bethesda intended for this to happen XD just a few Easter eggs in the journal of a madman gone astray.

And maybe the journals only say some of those things because he is completely and totally insane. In a hilarious, dark, charming kind of way.

"And if I spy a singing bird, I'll snap it's neck before it's heard! "

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#14 Edited by reikai (6618 posts) - - Show Bio

@laughingstock: Ultimately whether or not he was sane once is irrelevant to how he is now. Currently the Ratway is clear of guttertrash since they all tried to kill the Dovahkiin when he was goin through there. So finding the one drunk bum down there would be sending up all kinds of red flags.

Especially since, as a member of the Thieves Guild, Karliah has connections with all of the towns beggars and Guild Members. So someone down there who doesn't belong, would more than likely get an arrow to the face for their troubles. And it's quite unlikely Karliah would ever approach an unknown figure, let alone allow herself to be detected.

Plus, Karliah can enter the Ratway from the Ragged Flagon by using the Thieves Guild's secret entrance in the cemetary to their headquarters. It's an area Cicero would not have access to. He might be able to get supplies from the Flagon, but no help, and any attempt to enter the Thieves' Guild area would result in him getting killed by a bunch of angry Thieves, several of whom are former DB Members.

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#15 Posted by Laughingstock (1572 posts) - - Show Bio

@gumflabica: Well the Easter Eggs are actually confusing sometimes whether they are canon or not, remember the notched pickaxe and the wrecked airship? The pickaxe is never mentioned in any part of the elder scrolls, while in the Morrowind game you can actually see the canon airship. And since there it like 6 different journals, it's even harder trying to decipher which parts you can believe. With all the magic and legends floating around The Elder Scrolls it is very possible that Cicero could have some kind of magic enchantment for all we know, in one if the last DB missions you gotta go to Dawnstar to kill Cicero and when you get there all of the ghosts only fight you and leave Cicero alone. So wtf Cicero, we comprehend your false logic. Now the Sheograth theory is just the most likely of Daedras, the Prince of madness, madness = crazy, crazy = Cicero. It could very well be another Daedra messing up Cicero with the jester, (Im about to f*** up some names here) Hermaneus Mora the Daedra from the DLC, Molag Bal, one of the more 'evil' Daedric Princes. But then again maybe I'm just really stupid and these theories don't matter.


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#16 Posted by i_like_swords (24510 posts) - - Show Bio

I agree with @reikai. Karliah just has much better stealth feats/abilities and her poison tipped arrows will make short work of the jumping jester. And any traps set by Cicero will be rendered moot.

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#17 Posted by mastermustard (112 posts) - - Show Bio

Neither one wins. The battle goes on for eternity since they're both essential.