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#51 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (17306 posts) - - Show Bio

@jardinain2: Genis the High tier, Genis the team buster and Genis the Skyfather plus. Yeah, he does seem a td bit confusing to read. Lol.

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#52 Posted by deactivated-5a90ca82ccb5f (6669 posts) - - Show Bio

@king_hellstorm: Its not that hard actually. He has separate versions each with different sets of power. Legacy is a mid tier, Pre-Insane Captain Marvel is low-mid herald etc.

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#53 Posted by MajinBlackheart (9214 posts) - - Show Bio
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#57 Posted by MajinBlackheart (9214 posts) - - Show Bio
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#58 Edited by MajinBlackheart (9214 posts) - - Show Bio

The Devourer of Worlds

No Caption Provided

Feared across the universe, the mighty Galactus sustains himself by devouring the energies of living planets, a cosmic force driven by this hunger, Galactus is the balance among his siblings – Eternity and Death. Keeper of the Power Cosmic and beyond good or evil, Galactus scourers the universe with his herald searching for his next meal. After he was changed by the Ultimates he became the Lifebringer capable of using life energy to resurrect the dead and make a positive impact on the universe.

Powers

  • Cosmic Energy Projection
  • Life Energy Projection
  • Energy Manipulation/Absorption
  • Matter/Anti-Matter Manipulation
  • Invulnerability
  • Cosmic Awareness
  • Force Fields / Barriers
  • Telepathy and Illusions
  • Lifeforce/Soul Manipulation
  • Telekinesis
  • Super Strength
  • Highly Advanced Tech and Intelligence

The Destructive Power of Galactus

Despite his great might, Galactus is typically reserved in unleashing his massive energies. This is due to his great hunger and need of more energy, so depleting it just to get it is considered a waste. But when necessary, Galactus can cut loose. Additionally, as Lifebringer, Galactus has no need to consume planets to replenish his energy.

Starving and with the energy of one world, Galactus destroys three solar systems and counting. (Annihilation #6). It was later stated to be galaxy wide (Thanos Imperative: Ignition).

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Galactus battles with Tyrant – a being he created – and entire galaxies are destroyed. (Cosmic Powers #6)

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A well fed Galactus one-shots a Mad Celestial. (Fantastic Four Vol. 1 #603)

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Fed on one world, Galactus battles Mephisto in his realm. Their battle destroys galaxies and threatens the universe. (Marvel Graphic Novel #38 – Silver Surfer: Judgment Day)

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Initial Defense

Before we get to durability, Galactus has powerful force fields to protect him.

  • Scan 1) Force field defends physical blows and gives energy backlash for messing with it (Galactus the Devourer #3).
  • Scan 2) His force field impenetrable by hundreds of ships from the armada of the Shi’ar (Galactus the Devourer #6).
  • Scan 3) Galactus’ personal force field is more powerful than his ship’s and cannot be neutralized (Rom Vol. 1 #26)
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The Battle

Galactus is so much more than a destroyer via energy blasts though. The Power Cosmic gives him a myriad of abilities. As of yet, I see no reason Galactus can’t handle the situation presented.

A Child Who Won’t Be Beating Galactus

To be honest, I don’t really buy gameplay feats or animations as actual feats. Or maybe we could determine somehow how much HP Galactus has? But I will play along.

As preemptive proof that levels of power displayed in attack animations are consistent with lore; aside from the fact that gameplay is occasionally referenced in dialogue, I'll point out that Laharl has performed similar feats within narrative:

Him saying he can blow up stars proves those speed feats? Or that durability feat?

Your best showings here aren’t Laharl’s feats. Just because someone is more powerful than someone else doesn’t mean they have the same set of abilities. You’ll have to expand on what you mean by “composite”.

Anyway, Galactus has no physical form and is a being of energy. His armor merely encases his energy form and he is perceived how those who see him choose to see him. Piercing Galactus with a sword will be fruitless. I suppose the stated dimensional abilities of the attack could affect Galactus’ force fields but ultimately he is not a physical being that can be defeated in such a manner.

As far as I can tell, Laharl is by far the biggest physical powerhouse in the CaV.

Behold, Galactus tears a Celestial in half with his strength (Fantastic Four Vol. 1 #604)

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He has by far the best mid-combat speed feats here and his speed retains relevancy by being combined with his 4th dimensional reality warping prowess. Yes 4d reality warping is a thing in Disgaea as shown in the text for Baal's equivalent of Overlord Dimension.

Galactus can warp reality as well. He was easily able to completely undo all of Terax’s damage to New York City and make the entire populace unaware that the event even transpired (Fantastic Four Vol. 1 #243).

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He was also able to reconstitute himself, his ship and his heralds/Dr. Strange when destroyed by five Cosmic Cubes whilst in inter-dimensional travel. (Infinity War #3-4). His will to survive is too strong.

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By taking advantage of his immense speed and combat prowess; Laharl is capable of applying constant pressure, buying time for Dormammu to weave his devastating magicks. Bottom line... Via the combination of Dormammu and Laharl's specialties; the duo, for all intents and purposes, has complete control over the course of this battle.

Since Laharl is supposedly being protected by Dormammu, I will cover his other various avenues of defeat below. I still have yet to cover durability but even getting close to a serious Galactus should prove difficult. He’s known to create massive energy maelstroms and electrical storms when powering up.

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Dormammu of the High Context

I personally believe that most of Dormammu’s feats are heavily favored by particular context and while he is indeed powerful, he is not in Galactus’ league.

Oh, the Eternity feat. You really twist this into something stupendous but you are actually working backwards in context. Instead of bogging this down like my previous debate, I will just apply simple bullet points.

  • The fight with Eternity happened in his first appearances, long before (7 years) he was even established as any part of the cosmic hierarchy, let alone the top of it. He was basically a guy filled with stars more powerful than Strange.
  • Eternity was not destroyed (Doctor Stange Vol. 1 #180). [Scan]
  • It was retconned that Eternity uses manifestation bodies so Dormammu wasn’t fighting the real Eternity anyway (Quasar #37). [Scan]
  • Until 2016 (except a one shot mention of Multi-Eternity), Eternity was universal.
  • Not until The Ultimates (2016) was Eternity revealed to be multiversal and even then, the true Eternity had never appeared and only used a small facet of himself to represent a single universe. [Scan]

This feat is 52 years old. A lot has happened since then but it doesn’t mean it applies to the feat then. This is horribly twisted to make Dormammu seem way more powerful than he truly is. The M-Body was all he ever harmed. Eternity even admitted his true form (universal at the time) would not be harmed by the Infinity Gauntlet. [Scan]

So let’s begin with Laharl’s downfall before we get to Dormammu:

An example is protecting Laharl against telepath, which I know it's a main and normally form of attack used by the opposition, but Dormy could likely resolve this problem simply use a mystical bubble on him like Strange did on Clea during The Mystic Hands of Doctor Strange: Strange was indeed the one who cast the spell but that doesn't mean Dormammu can't as well. As its shown above, such spell isn't above a basic mental bubble who doesn't seem take any skill at all and it's already capable of protecting against planetary telepath:

Just like Zets’ assumptions that a more powerful character can replicate a weaker ones abilities, I argue that it isn’t necessarily true. How can we know Strange hasn’t practiced this spell many times? How do we know Dormammu could replicate it or practiced it when I doubt he considers protecting others?

But like above I shall play along. The scans you provide specifically state that the attack being defended is magic. Galactus’ abilities are not magical in nature. Additionally, it even states “it doesn’t control minds.” And Galactus far exceeds a “planetary telepath”. The Silver Surfer, who has a fraction of Galactus’ Power Cosmic is a planetary telepath.

  • Scan 1) Psychic attacks make earthquakes across the universe (Fantastic Four Vol. 1 #75)
  • Scan 2) Attacks psychically and physically on every level (Fantastic Four Vol. 1 #391)
  • Scans 3-5) Recreates an illusion of Zenn-La so realistic that it fooled everyone including the likes of Surfer and Mephisto and the Zenn-Lavian people had no idea they weren’t real (Silver Surfer Vol. 3 #130).
  • Scans 6-8) Forces Odin to realistic mental illusions combined with personal memories (The Mighty Thor #4)
  • Scans 9-10) Soul manipulation is “easily realized”. (Silver Surfer Vol. 3 #48).
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That barrier that you may not even be able to do isn’t shown to stop all of these abilities.

Even if his raw-power isn't enough(Which I personally doubt it when looking at some of his other feats)

Let’s see the other feats.

Dormammu has other means like sealing or BFR such as used against the SS Krugarr and a future avatar of the Phoenix Force(With the rest of the GotG)

We can use BFR? Galactus can send you both back in time like he did to the Sphinx. Or he can send you both outside of the omniverse. With a wave of his hand he can move a galaxy across the universe so I’m sure moving either Laharl or Dormammu won’t prove difficult. We’ve already seen that Dormammu can be teleported in the fight against Charlie.

But your BFR won’t work. I doubt that seal could hold Galactus long and the BFR attempt was easily escaped by the Guardians when Dormammu was distracted. I do have a teammate. Plus if those tentacles could barely pull in the Guardians, what chance does it have of working on the Mighty Galactus?

To follow up, Dormammu was overwhelmed and weakened by battle with the Guardians. That’s right. He was grappled with by Wonder Man. Hurt by Firelord. Embarrassingly manhandled by Charlie-27 [1][2]. And ultimately he was defeated by Krugarr who isn’t even Strange level. Sorry, you have to take the good with the bad.

Dormammu can also call upon the race of the Mindless Ones, who are easy to be controlled and used as an assistance force or a distraction if necessary. Dormammu, for example, has summoned thousands of Mindless Ones even when his essence was scratched away in multiple dimensions as shown in The Amazing Spider-Man Vol.2#57:

Your fodder is nothing more than fodder to Galactus. But he has his own as well. Galactus can easily summon his star sphere to the battle. Inside you’ll find defensive spheres, robots with the Power Cosmic and Punisher Robots.

  • Scans 1-3) Punisher Robots can give Thanos and Warlock a hard time as well as self-destruct (Thanos Vol. 1 #4)
  • Scans 4-5) One Punisher can give even the In-Betweener pause (Silver Surfer Vol. 3 #17)
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Not to mention that the Star Sphere also has a stasis field that can prove useful.

These things will eat through your fodder and based on other physical confrontations weaken or even defeat Dormammu himself.

And there's nothing which indicates the ones above are unique among their kin, so now imagine an entire universe...Especially since the Mindless Ones seem got a power-up and supposedly can use magic as well as revealed in Deadpool: Too Soon#5? Infinite Comic:

So in hundreds of appearances they use magic once… in a Deadpool comic. Got any other instances?

Initial Thoughts

Galactus is a force of nature to be reckoned with. Besides raw power he has many other abilities I see no defense for here. Next post I will cover Galactus’ durability and other methods of victory and perhaps better feats than I’ve posted above if warranted.

As for now, unfortunately you still have another cosmic powerhouse to deal with in Genis-Vell. More bad news is he will probably amp Galactus even further.

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#59 Posted by MajinBlackheart (9214 posts) - - Show Bio
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#60 Posted by deactivated-5b0845740eb0b (1578 posts) - - Show Bio

Heh, I'll like this CaV.

I guess the next one is Jardinain, right?

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#61 Posted by MajinBlackheart (9214 posts) - - Show Bio

@andromeda101: yes. And by the way that Dormammu theme is super bad ass and I listened to it quite a few times writing this.

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#62 Posted by deactivated-5b0845740eb0b (1578 posts) - - Show Bio

@majinblackheart: Indeed.

I never imagined that Metal could fit so well in a theme for him. Guess that independent of the CaV's final results, Dormammu ultimately wins musical-wise in one way or another:

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I doubt Galactus has this level of rap-skills anyway, lel. ;)

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#63 Posted by deactivated-5a90ca82ccb5f (6669 posts) - - Show Bio
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#64 Posted by Sawed_Off_It (13219 posts) - - Show Bio

Looks pretty cool. I know very little of these characters so I will be reading through the debate "blind" so to speak.

T4V

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#65 Posted by MyLittleFascist (31159 posts) - - Show Bio

@jardinain2@revan- I don't know who is using whose account, but someone needs to hurry up with that post.

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#66 Posted by deactivated-5a90ca82ccb5f (6669 posts) - - Show Bio

@zetsumoto: Actually I don't know who's account it who's either anymore.

The site glitched and let Revan on my account.

I can get a quick opener up tomorrow most likely. Or tonight.

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#67 Posted by MyLittleFascist (31159 posts) - - Show Bio

@revan-: That's what you get for fookin around with Revan of all people...

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#68 Posted by deactivated-5a90ca82ccb5f (6669 posts) - - Show Bio

@zetsumoto: Its fixed, and I'm back to normal. You can tag Jardinain2 as me now.

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#69 Posted by MyLittleFascist (31159 posts) - - Show Bio
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#72 Posted by MyLittleFascist (31159 posts) - - Show Bio
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#73 Posted by deactivated-5b0845740eb0b (1578 posts) - - Show Bio

@zetsumoto: None.

I just want to finish this CaV either way. :/

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#74 Posted by MajinBlackheart (9214 posts) - - Show Bio

@zetsumoto: I don't know who that character is, so hopefully he's awesome lol. I don't know that I've ever seen jucas debate either.

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#75 Posted by MyLittleFascist (31159 posts) - - Show Bio

@majinblackheart: Since you think Galactus can solo, it doesn't really matter how powerful Anti-Spiral is. =P

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#76 Posted by HigherPower (12088 posts) - - Show Bio

Are you guys making a new thread?

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#77 Posted by MyLittleFascist (31159 posts) - - Show Bio
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#78 Edited by deactivated-5b60e98a8eb99 (11593 posts) - - Show Bio

Anti-Spiral:

"People ask, "Why do you fight? Why do you kill? Why do you destroy?" They will die with these questions unanswered. That is humanity's bliss."

Bio:

The Anti-Spiral is the representation of the collective consciousness known as the Anti-Spirals. In their universe, the Spiral Power allows living beings to perform incredible feats, break the laws of physics, and is basically the power of friendship/love/rage powerup/whatever plot device the author feels like.

But this power was dangerous, if left unchecked it could result in the destruction of the entire universe. To prevent that, the Anti-Spiral race halted their evolution and waged war against . . . everyone, really. They killed the majority of the living beings but left a few alive.

Disclaimer: There's an anime and 2 movies for Gurren Lagann, each with slight differences from each other. Since Laharl is composite, and Genis was supposed to be as well, I'll use both versions if no one minds it . . .

Some terminology:

  • Spiral Warriors: Beings that can use the Spiral Power to amp themselves and their mechas
  • Gurren Lagann: A building sized mecha that they first use
  • Arc Gurren Lagann: A city sized mecha that they use later. Gurren Lagann is inside it
  • Super Galaxy Gurren Lagann: A moon sized mecha. The other two are inside it.
  • Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann: A galaxy sized mechaa. The others are inside it as well.
  • Super Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann: A bigger one, all are inside it.
  • Ashtangas: Anti-Spiral ships that are bigger than planets
  • Granzeboma: AS' first galaxy sized mech
  • Great Granzeboma: AS' second galaxy sized mech

His Powahs:

Infinite Universe Labyrinth:

When he faced the Spiral Warriors attacking his dimension, this was the move he pulled when he got tired of their bs. While facing opponents with unknown abilities, I'm sure this is what he'd start with.

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Order is reversed

Basically, he traps your minds into a series of universes that are created as soon as they're perceived. It's not even an illusion, he just kinda BFRs your mind to another reality , where it seems to be trapped inside the universes they wish for the most, as shown when Yoko sees universes where she's famous, married, etc, and Viral being in one where he has a famility. And as Anti-Spiral states:

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Now, to be fair, the protagonists did escape, but as I've said before, Spiral power. The thing is a plot device, with it's main ability being literally "do the impossible". It can warp probability to make impossible things happen, so it's not that bad. Also, Simon only escaped because his dead brother appeared and gave him a pep talk, and we all know how effective those are along with plot powers. Lastly, you can see that he absorbs the universes inside there at 5:40, so he was amped as well, absorbing ridiculous amounts of energy is something Spiral Power is great at.

It's a rather unconventional kind of attack, so I'm not sure if your characters could escape it, they can just stay there forever going from one universe to another without being able to get out, and that's if they notice what's happening. If it works even for a short amount time, they'll be defenceless and can be attacked one sidely.

Universal Capabilities:

Not exactly combat related, but just to show that he has the power.

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Can control the entire universe.

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Created an entire universe between the 10th and 11th dimensions.

For the Combat:

Now, for the actual combat feats. Knowing at least that their enemies are incredibly powerful, since to be fighting them they'd have to be able to escape his Labyrinth and by their reputation he should know that they're skyfathers, he'll probably put some effort from the beginning.

As shown in his battle the Spiral Warriors, he can create a robot the size of a galaxy quite easily. Here you can see the robot he was fighting against, Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann.

AS created the one on the left, Granzeboma, to fight them.
AS created the one on the left, Granzeboma, to fight them.

Mind you, he was still holding back heavily because he wanted to make all the Spiral races fall in despair after beating them in a fair fight.

While fighting, he shows casual galaxy level attacks:

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  1. Forces TTGL through several galaxies
  2. Lasers that can damage galaxies
  3. Throws an entire galaxy like a shuriken to cut an opposing mecha

When he was fighting Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann, he managed to rip him apart with physiscal strength.

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That's important because TTGL is extremely durable, more on that later.

After doing that, TTGL splits and becomes several different mechas. They can all blast AS and fail to do any substantial damage:

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When he gets tired of their bs again, he pulls his best move (for now):

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Infinity Big Bang Storm, the sensors in TTGL showed that this attack had enough energy to create universes (though I've seen it translated as both universe or universes, but it's at least universal). All those mechas took that blast for quite some time, and AS was able to damage them with physical blows quite easily beforehand.

After getting hit by that attack, they literally ate it, and then fused to become STTGL:

That tiny dot beside his right foot is AS' previous mecha
That tiny dot beside his right foot is AS' previous mecha

AS just got pissed and made an even bigger one, Great Granzeboma:

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With his smaller mech he already wields universal power, but he can easily create another one that dwarfs the power of the former immensely.

Regarding speed, considering their size, they've got to be MFTL just to move around. AS can easily fight in super speed even then.

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Conclusion:

With perfect teamwork, I'm sure Galactus can teleport out of the way of AS' attacks, and the mach's sheer size would be a great distraction, kinda hard to focus on Galan when something like that is attacking you. AS can be quite precise, as shown when he hits the building sized Gurren Lagann from the top of his galaxy sized mech:

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AS has more than enough power to handle Laharl in a physical confrontation. The sheer size of his mecha mean that any attack that doesn't have an absurd large AoE will cause as much damage as a mosquito bite. Even with the smaller one, he can take galaxy destroying attacks and a big bang just fine.

Dormammu's raw power is great, but AS matches him as well. I didn't see anything too hax that he should worry about. There's that sealing/BFR, but it'd be quite hard to use if AS is on top of a mecha, he should be way too far away, and he can easily travel between dimensions and time anyway.

Regarding shields, AS can use probability manipulation to make it so that they don't work even if they do work (now try to understand that):

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Reversed order again, sorry

The Labyrinth can be quite a threat, and even if it doesn't work his size alone can be quite a pain in the ass to deal with, especially with Galactus helping as well.

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@zetsumoto@majinblackheart@andromeda101

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#79 Posted by HigherPower (12088 posts) - - Show Bio
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#82 Posted by cosmicallyaware1 (7308 posts) - - Show Bio

@zetsumoto: did you tag me in this? looks like the post was deleted....

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#85 Posted by deactivated-5b0845740eb0b (1578 posts) - - Show Bio

@jucaslucasa: My post will be ready this weekend, most likely.

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#87 Edited by deactivated-5b60e98a8eb99 (11593 posts) - - Show Bio
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#88 Posted by MyLittleFascist (31159 posts) - - Show Bio

LOL

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#89 Edited by deactivated-5b0845740eb0b (1578 posts) - - Show Bio

Fear The Power of the Dread Dormammu- Part 2! Counters and Strategy:

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My Counters- MajinB:

I personally believe that most of Dormammu’s feats are heavily favored by particular context and while he is indeed powerful, he is not in Galactus’ league.

Is that so? Then I gladly invite you to try showing otherwise just for me to debunk over and over, in fact, let's start doing that now right now with all the things you said so far. Oh, I do agree with you that Dormammu isn't in Galactus' league though...He's above it. :)

Oh, the Eternity feat. You really twist this into something stupendous but you are actually working backwards in context. Instead of bogging this down like my previous debate, I will just apply simple bullet points.

I'm not twisting anything and I'm pretty much about to show that, but can't speak the same of you after taking a close look at arguments presented so far. Can you show me where I said Dormammu hurt(I said his essence was destroyed, whatever that hurt the abstract or not doesn't matter to me) Eternity, Jlone? Or how come and from where you got the conclusion that was my point? You do know I can use the Eternity feat in multiple ways, right? In this case, I'm referring to the side effects of the battle and was something backed by such amount of sources that literally washes away any feat presented here since can't be argued as anything less than a factual information. Nothing Galactus did, as far as I know, has such comparable weight to Dormie's feat or the amount of official backup, which ranges from all places. Since you decide to follow this route though, I'm going to straight show to everyone reading my post just how extremely out of context and wrong your points truly are.

  • The fight with Eternity happened in his first appearances, long before (7 years) he was even established as any part of the cosmic hierarchy, let alone the top of it. He was basically a guy filled with stars more powerful than Strange.
  • So? I find funny that you're now trying to use an argument based simply on the chronological moment of each event, but then try to impose Eternity being only an M-Body during his fight against Dormammu(Which doesn't even correlate or proves that happens during their battle)...When M-Bodies didn't even exist back then too, so we're going to ignore future retcons related to Eternity's power/place in the cosmic order but at the same time apply the revelation of the M-Bodies even though it only came out much later as well? I surely hope that you can see the double-standards here, Jlone. It doesn't matter what Eternity was back then because of the new pieces of information revealed later, such as Handbooks in the 70s/80s explicitly mentioning that Dormammu indeed fought an Eternity which was actually a universal embodiment:
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And different from your example with the M-Body, I'm using a direct comparison to their fight. Much like was retconned again later in their second fight during Defenders Vol.3#3, Eternity then became the embodiment of the entire multiversal from now on:

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  • Eternity was not destroyed (Doctor Stange Vol. 1 #180).
  • You do know the word "destroyed" could've multiple implications, right? Eternity's ethereal form being or annihilated isn't the same as putting the abstract down for good, basically killing it. Strange knew that Eternity could not die permanently as shown in Strange Tales#148:
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Which doesn't diverge with Dormammu disintegrating Eternity's essence then, especially because what Strange once start to wonder for the first time was if Eternity was alive or not...Something the very scan you posted makes that clear:

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Do you wanna know the problem with all your arguments? It's that you're debating against the claims made by other users(In this case, I think is more than likely Jardinain) and not mine own. Never once I said Dormie killed or hurt Eternity, but somehow for you, that's not what looks like. What I really claimed and which I'm going to show was: "Dormammu launches an attack that destroys Eternity's essence, as well nearly the universe itself and other dimensions/universes." That's it, dude.

  • It was retconned that Eternity uses manifestation bodies so Dormammu wasn’t fighting the real Eternity anyway (Quasar #37).
  • And that's one of my main problems with your argument. Okay then, but where shows that Eternity used an M-Body during the particular instances where fought Dormammu? No Handbook, Guidebook or any source says that was an M-Body(They actually referenced as being Eternity itself). Why would Dormammu swing and even get the power in the essence of an M-Body who per his words embodied all levels of creation? Something like that wouldn't make sense if wasn't the real one. Why would Dormammu go personally to Eternity's realm and face the abstract if was only an M-Body? Why would the universe(s) even be affected by Dormammu attacking just an M-Body of Eternity back in Strange Tales then? So no, I do say it was the real one.
  • Until 2016 (except a one-shot mention of Multi-Eternity), Eternity was universal. Not until The Ultimates (2016) was Eternity revealed to be multiversal and even then, the true Eternity had never appeared and only used a small facet of himself to represent a single universe.

Incorrect. There have been multiple instances stating and showing otherwise even before that, such as during Doctor Strange, Sorcerer Supreme#54 where was stated by the writer's box narration(Strange only confirming) that only Eternity's hand holds multiple universes within it that just Eternity's own hand holds multiple universes within it and even in the classic days like during Defenders Vol.1#92, Stephen and Eternity even talked in the same storyline about the ending of all creation (The Multiverse as pointed out by Hellstrom later) by the very fact that only some fractions of Eternity were missing, which meant for them that reality itself was incomplete and would fall/be destroyed if continued as so:

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And I already have shown to you above a direct re-encounter between Dormammu and Eternity where the later as the manifestation of the entire multiverse, which once again destroys the idea of Dormammu battling only an M-Body as well.

This feat is 52 years old

Oh, I didn't know we had a rule that feats have an expiration date. Why matters how old is the feat, pal? Marvel still continues to acknowledge its events in multiple modern/current comics, such as Doctor Strange Vol.4#25 and Doctor Strange, Last Days of Magic:

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So if the company itself recognizes the legitimacy of the feat, there's no room for debate here.

A lot has happened since then but it doesn’t mean it applies to the feat then. This is horribly twisted to make Dormammu seem way more powerful than he truly is. The M-Body was all he ever harmed. Eternity even admitted his true form (universal at the time) would not be harmed by the Infinity Gauntlet.

Lol, but a disconnected retcon of the M-Body does? Give a break, Jlone. You're the one twisting the things up and putting words in my mouth, I'll now explain to you why I said the side-effects of battle were impressive exactly like I did in the VsBattles Forums. That very same Eternity supposedly had whole universes(Doctor Strange, Sorcerer Supreme #9) inside of him if we go the novelization of the events written by Sara Wolf according to Doctor Strange's own view of the abstract. It's also officially confirmed by Marvel - Absolutely Everything You Need To Know that Dormammu nearly destroyed the universe and on top of all, I actually got proof of going as far to cause those multi-universal effects and even backing such multiversal status of that version of Eternity as well with sources like/events like Kaluu being set free in a dimension/universe far away from the 616 (Strange Tales #148), and the battle causing a transdimensional holocaust (Doctor Strange, Sorcerer Supreme #23). In case you don't know, the transdimensional thing means multiple dimensions/universes, which the same book says that doesn't make a difference in how its called because they're indeed same...Thus the 616 doesn't need to be complete obliterated as you may try to argue in order to diminish the feat, but the universe was actually burning and this can be seen by the very art when Strange is sent way to the edge of the universe, which was in basically in flames and destroyed.

See? Nothing of hurting or killing Eternity, I never said that. Although, I must remind you again that Giraud is easily capable of hurting Eternity and the guy vastly inferior to Dormie. Everything above was done by one of the weakest versions of Dormammu as well.

Just like Zets’ assumptions that a more powerful character can replicate a weaker ones abilities, I argue that it isn’t necessarily true. How can we know Strange hasn’t practiced this spell many times?

I'm not making assumptions, I'm showing facts. Why did I say Dormammu can replicate that? Because it's not just an empty statement since everything that Strange was, all his power, was added to Dormammu when the later took control of Stephen's body during Doctor Strange, Sorcerer Supreme#1-2:

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So Dormie has at least the knowledge to replicate the spell and just because Dormammu was exorcised from his body doesn't mean that lost all that. Umar and Dormammu were absorbed by Dormie and escaped, yet the same still retained their might(As I'm going to enter more in this subject later).

How do we know Dormammu could replicate it or practiced it when I doubt he considers protecting others?

About his ability to replicate, I already covered above. It seems you're a bit unaware of how Dormammu's personality works, Jlone...He has protected others many times in certain situations, such as some villagers of his realm from the Mindless Ones in Captain America - The Otherworld War:

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When the moment suits him as shown above, Dormammu can and will do something like that. In this battle, Dormie protecting Laharl will benefit him if they got a good teamwork and so makes perfect sense to act as a shield sometimes.

But like above I shall play along. The scans you provide specifically state that the attack being defended is magic. Galactus’ abilities are not magical in nature. Additionally, it even states “it doesn’t control minds.” And Galactus far exceeds a “planetary telepath”. The Silver Surfer, who has a fraction of Galactus’ Power Cosmic is a planetary telepath.

First off, "Magic" is a sort of cosmic energy anyway. This is noticed by the fact that even Dormammu(Your very opponent here) called his powers cosmic in nature as well duringDefenders Vol.3#2:

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So Galactus' abilities might not be magical in but that doesn't mean magic isn't a type of cosmic energy too. I don't think you noticed said warp was still a telepathic/psychic attack regardless:

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Did I say that was enough to protect Laharl? My point is that if Strange's far inferior magic could casually conjure a shield like that, Dormammu's one would be far stronger given his superior power(I already addressed why Dormie can use such spell above, so I won't touch the subject again). Have you forgotten that in the last page I pretty much posted Nightmare saying that Dormammu overtook his mental/psych control over entire dimensions/universes in Defenders(2005)#1:

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It's not like those are all of his feats in this department though, here's a basic sample of Dormammu's capabilities:

  • Scan 1 ) Multidimensional telepathy even while in one of his weakest forms/incarnations.
  • Scan 2-3 ) Dormammu indirect controls the Mindless Ones with his psychic aura alone, which there's an entire dimension/pocket universe filled with them(DSSS#50).
  • Scan 4 ) A far inferior and weakened version of Dormammu gives a normal human like Krowler enough mystical energies to overpower Strange's mind(Doctor Strange, Master of the Mystic Arts#50).
  • Scan 5 ) Once again a far inferior and extremely weakened Dormammu easily mind-controls the Scarlet Witch, but what actually matters in this feat is that Wanda was also able to counter-attack/resist a mental attack from a planetary level telepath such as Moondragon during Avengers#134 through Dormie's control, even though Dormie was still regenerating himself while inside of Earth's core at the time(Giant-Size Avengers#04).
  • Scan 6-7 ) A mental battle against Strange inside of Zarathos/Ghost Rider's own mind(A Hell-Lord being) was so intense that threatened to destroy it and Dormammu was at one of his weakest incarnations(Ghost Rider Vol.1#30-31):
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Dormammu should be able to at least hold back Galactus' telepathy at bay for a time, especially since this isn't going to be a strictly telepathic battle. My point is that if Galactus or Anti-Spiral decide to resort to such attack, Dormammu can pretty much counter even if for a bit while Laharl continues to press a physical attack against either or both. I severely doubt that Galactus can fight against Laharl while at the same time attacking him with his full-power mental power. Besides, I don't believe Galan will stay in this battle for long before being defeated by Dormy or/and Laharl and then will only rest Anti-Spiral to deal with anyway.

Let’s see the other feats.

As you wish:

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And I think you're aware of the next one...Dormammu, when fused with his powers together with his sister Umar, was able to completely defeat and overpower the multiversal/omniversal abstract entity known as Eternity in Defenders Vol.3#3:

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Now, I already know all the arguments you're going to pull out against this feat(Outdated Handbooks regarding Dormie's power, "The Cosmic Axis" that none here seems knows its true effects and so on) and I'll be glad to debunk them when that happens, but what I want to make clear now is that I don't believe Dormie could've won alone. He's not above or at Eternity's level, but everything the Cosmic Axis did was to make his powers flow through Umar and vice-versa, which then makes the feat totally gaugable as we know how they compare to each other power-wise. Umar is, canon-wise, below Dormammu in power and thus most of the credit for the showing above should go to him. Why I'm saying this though? Because Eternity is leagues above Galactus and leagues above Anti-Spiral(Being described sometimes as the embodiment of the Omniverse after all), so this feat alone should show Dormammu's superiority over both. Moving on.

We can use BFR? Galactus can send you both back in time like he did to the Sphinx. Or he can send you both outside of the omniverse. With a wave of his hand he can move a galaxy across the universe so I’m sure moving either Laharl or Dormammu won’t prove difficult. We’ve already seen that Dormammu can be teleported in the fight against Charlie.

Cool, what's that going to accomplish though? Why can't Dormammu simply return? None of the things you said are also as effective as banishing Galactus or Anti-Spiral to a Neither-Realm like Dormie was doing with the GotG, which usually have beings such as Shuma-Gorath, who's an entity arguably far beyond Galan even in fed-state thanks to the events unfolded in Thanos Imperative. He's already used to deal with similar things to your tactics anyway, the Dark Dimension itself is a timeless universe and at the very edge of infinity, yet Dormammu has no problem in accessing any timeline like the 616 would be to him or universe...Or the little fact that Dormie went beyond reality two times already(1, 2). He was a far inferior version of himself during his fight against the GotG and was weakened as well, but I'll address that below...Now, I think you know that even Strange channeling a universe worth of magic still wasn't enough to banish an inferior version to Dormammu(Since he now became even more powerful thanks to the use of souls) in Doctor Strange(2015)#16:

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I just want to address a few things here before you try to dismiss this showing like did with Jardinain. The Empirikul wiped out most of the Earth's magic as Strange himself said above and not the universe, which was what Strange really used against Dormie. There are also infinite aspects of magic in the universe who are actually embodiments of everything, so even if the Empirikul had somehow destroyed half of the magic in the universe(Something that would be almost impossible in the first place), half of infinity is still infinity regardless. All that only worked because Mordo who was amped by Dormammu himself helped Strange in the end as well.

But your BFR won’t work. I doubt that seal could hold Galactus long and the BFR attempt was easily escaped by the Guardians when Dormammu was distracted. I do have a teammate. Plus if those tentacles could barely pull in the Guardians, what chance does it have of working on the Mighty Galactus?

It was easily pulling Giraud(Who I would argue is not far behind Galan in power given the feats I posted in my previous post) and the GotG, only was stopped because of another sorcerer called Talon was able to momentarily take away Dormammu's concentration from them. You've got a teammate, cool...So what? I also have one if you forgot about it.

To follow up, Dormammu was overwhelmed and weakened by battle with the Guardians. That’s right. He was grappled with by Wonder Man. Hurt by Firelord. Embarrassingly manhandled by Charlie-27 [1][2]. And ultimately he was defeated by Krugarr who isn’t even Strange level. Sorry, you have to take the good with the bad.

I would say this is only below the out of context claims of Magik defeating Dormammu in a fair-square battle or arguing that Odin and Dormammu are close to the same based on outdated information. You're aware that is twisting and left aside many things, right? First off, I would like to remind you that said battle happened in an alternate future as revealed by Doctor Strange in Guardians of the Galaxy#33:

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Which means you're underestimating the members here. Wonder Man in the future became so powerful that could withstand without any issues an explosion capable of wiping out dozens of solars systems, for example:

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You don't see Wonder Man doing this in the regular 616, do you? Same with the other members whose feats are also on that level or above for you to sell them out like that. You're also claiming and twisting things up that never happened since Firelord never hurt Dormie, who was only surprised and taken aback by his form of attack(There NO sounds of pain and it's pretty common to mages uses phrases like that), Charlie could only do that because took Dormammu while the later was off-guard and so couldn't counter-attack, Wonder Man was swapped away like an insect moments later, Krugarr was easily imprisoned in Shazana's Crucifix before their last fight...Which I think you should know never defeated Dormammu alone since had the powers of his apprentice Talon and the soul of DOCTOR STRANGE/ANCIENT ONE HIMSELF with him. Your claim that Krugarr isn't even at Strange's level is also unfolded, if anything Krugarr is superior given his consistent feats/statements. Before all those things, I'm going to remind you that Dormammu had previously to endure a combined attack of all the Guardians' power fused with Ancient One/Doctor Strange's ones in Guardians of the Galaxy#(1990)#36:

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So that should've taxed him even if a bit. Remeber when I said that Dormammu became much more powerful after this battle? The storyline was the beginning of that by fusing with his alternate timeline version, but even such version completely pales in comparison to ones who came later. It then continued with Doctor Strange, Sorcerer Supreme#1 when Dormammu fused with Strange's body, but later becomes even more powerful throughout the series/volume, starting by creating a new and superior physical form for himself in Doctor Strange, Sorcerer Supreme#22 compared to when possessed Strange:

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This is without counting how Dormammu later created ANOTHER new body with the energies of Mordo and Umar, which made him again FAR MORE POWERFUL:

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Which has been confirmed by Strange and Clea to have amped his powers to an unthinkable and unimaginable level. It's also been confirmed by Marvel - Absolutely Everything You Need To Know to be a permanent amp:

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There's even Dormie becoming more powerful once again with the use of souls. See? Your analogy is basically the same as saying Grey Hulk is as powerful as World Breaker Hulk, so Dormie became a lot more powerful since the incident with the GoTG and so any "low showings" can't be necessarily applicable here and all his feats are now far more impressive because were done by a far inferior version. Yet if you're gonna play this game of ignoring context, then two can do that. Should I remind you that Galactus was being choked by Talon's Crimson Bands of Cyttorak and needed to be set free by Strange in Guardians of the Galaxy(1990)#25?

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Who cares what level of hunger and version was Galactus, right? Same with the context surrounding Dormammu's battle with the Guardians.

Your fodder is nothing more than fodder to Galactus. But he has his own as well. Galactus can easily summon his star sphere to the battle. Inside you’ll find defensive spheres, robots with the Power Cosmic and Punisher Robots.

  • Scans 1-3) Punisher Robots can give Thanos and Warlock a hard time as well as self-destruct (Thanos Vol. 1 #4)
  • Scans 4-5) One Punisher can give even the In-Betweener pause (Silver Surfer Vol. 3 #17)

Not to mention that the Star Sphere also has a stasis field that can prove useful.

These things will eat through your fodder and based on other physical confrontations weaken or even defeat Dormammu himself.

Did I say otherwise? My point is for the Mindless Ones serving as a distraction, nothing more. There's an entire dimension filled with them, beings whose only purpose is to fight and destroy. The best part? The Mindless Ones keep can keep spamming forever as long as their dimension exists. Can you say the same for your robots? Do you remember three of them were once enough to take on the entire Defenders? Well, Strange himself has replicated the last feat or maybe even surpassed as the In-Betweener in that instance was amped by the Living Tribunal itself in Rom#41(Scans are backward):

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It may indeed prove useful, but for how long can they maintain it? How many can they put in the stasis field? These are important factors to say if they'll be as useful as you said. Don't be ridiculous though...They won't even be a small challenge to the Dread One, probably would all get one-shot simultaneously based on the feats above. It's not like Dormammu is borderline immune to physical force anyway, right?

So in hundreds of appearances they use magic once… in a Deadpool comic. Got any other instances?

Maybe because that's a very recent appearance/comic/amp? If you want any other instances, then you'll need to wait the Mindless One appear again and wait for them to show the full extent of their powers. Until that happens, The Mindless Ones can now use magic too.

My Counters-Jucas:

Basically, he traps your minds into a series of universes that are created as soon as they're perceived. It's not even an illusion, he just kinda BFRs your mind to another reality , where it seems to be trapped inside the universes they wish for the most, as shown when Yoko sees universes where she's famous, married, etc, and Viral being in one where he has a famility. And as Anti-Spiral states:Now, to be fair, the protagonists did escape, but as I've said before, Spiral power. The thing is a plot device, with it's main ability being literally "do the impossible". It can warp probability to make impossible things happen, so it's not that bad. Also, Simon only escaped because his dead brother appeared and gave him a pep talk, and we all know how effective those are along with plot powers. Lastly, you can see that he absorbs the universes inside there at 5:40, so he was amped as well, absorbing ridiculous amounts of energy is something Spiral Power is great at.It's a rather unconventional kind of attack, so I'm not sure if your characters could escape it, they can just stay there forever going from one universe to another without being able to get out, and that's if they notice what's happening. If it works even for a short amount time, they'll be defenceless and can be attacked one sidely.

And do you have any instance showings that such unconventional attack has or will have effect in an even more unconventional mind of a higher extradimensional being such as Dormammu? Especially because Dormie's mind is no way like that of those humans beings, it's a complete abyss of darkness full of mystical protections where actually resides the sentient and living embodiment of his own ego(DSSS#50):

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So how Anti-Spiral is going to deals with that? The complexity and endurance of Dormammu's mind was shown when wasn't overloaded even when navigating through Eternity's essence and absorbing the same, who's the manifestation of everything that is or will be during Defenders Vol.3#3:

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Nothing suggests that this attack will have any significant or even minimal effects on him, at least so far.

Not exactly combat related, but just to show that he has the power.Can control the entire universe. Created an entire universe between the 10th and 11th dimensions.

That's cool and all, but so does Dormammu with the Dark Dimension as revealed in DSSS#50:

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And that's been the case since the very beginning when Dormie was still far weaker. I've also shown to MajinBlackheart above how the Dark Dimension is located at the edges of infinity in Marvel and so is at least a comparable feat.

With perfect teamwork, I'm sure Galactus can teleport out of the way of AS' attacks, and the mach's sheer size would be a great distraction, kinda hard to focus on Galan when something like that is attacking you. AS can be quite precise, as shown when he hits the building sized Gurren Lagann from the top of his galaxy sized mech:

I'm not going to quote everything you said in his capabilities section, but all you've shown regarding his power can at best only scratch Dormammu. Remember the scans below?:

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Dormammu was pretty much casually swimming in Eternity's essence where's full of big-bangs going out constantly and that was at the very beginning when entered inside the abstracts, which means the feat becomes even more impressive because Dormammu tanked the rebirth of the multiverse/omniverse in the end.

Dormammu's raw power is great, but AS matches him as well. I didn't see anything too hax that he should worry about. There's that sealing/BFR, but it'd be quite hard to use if AS is on top of a mecha, he should be way too far away, and he can easily travel between dimensions and time anyway.

I particularly disagree with that notion given all the feats I posted. How does AS matches him in power when Dormmamu even in far weaker forms still has comparable feats? And I think you're underestimating how powerful his sealing is:

  • Could potentially seal Eternity given enough time(Strange Tales#146).
  • Sealed Zom's power, who's at least comparable to Eternity as well(Strange Tales#156).
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Not that I think it's necessary as I said. Dormammu could basically two-shot him like did recently with Shuma-Gorath in Doctor Strange#388(Scans are backward):

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Shuma-Gorath being one and the leader of The Many-Angled Ones, who are a bunch of larger and more powerful entities than The Galactus Engine and the same can fight against the combined power of Galactus, Celestials and many other beings alike.

Regarding shields, AS can use probability manipulation to make it so that they don't work even if they do work (now try to understand that):

And did this probability manipulation ever worked against beings who can bend reality and its laws of existence to their needs? That's an important question. Dormammu could work his plans and attack even outside of what Eternity could see, so I don't doubt the same happens here.

The Labyrinth can be quite a threat, and even if it doesn't work his size alone can be quite a pain in the ass to deal with, especially with Galactus helping as well.

Not if doesn't even work on Dormammu, to begin with. His size works to our advantage of making him an easier target to attack, for example.

Conclusion:

  • Neither Galactus or Anti-Spiral have enough power to overcome Dormammu, who can already deal with each of them individually without too many problems.
  • Most points against my arguments are just a compilation filled with out of context claims and arguments about the Dread One, so nothing of that matters or has any impact on this debate.
  • A great deal, if not all of the abilities of my opponents which have been shown so far have little to no significant effect on Dormammu.
  • There's nothing posted here that invalidates my original strategy and so Laharl and Dormammu should comfortably win.
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#90 Posted by deactivated-5b0845740eb0b (1578 posts) - - Show Bio
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T4V, that Dormammu post was awesome

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t4v

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The wait is worth it, great post

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#98 Edited by deactivated-5b0845740eb0b (1578 posts) - - Show Bio

@majinblackheart: @mylittlefascist: @jucaslucasa: I just noticed some of my links are suddenly broken, so I'll fix that when get home. I'm saying this now to assure you guys that won't drastically change the post by adding any new arguments or something alike.

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#99 Posted by deactivated-5b60e98a8eb99 (11593 posts) - - Show Bio
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#100 Edited by MyLittleFascist (31159 posts) - - Show Bio

@jucaslucasa: @majinblackheart@andromeda101

Overlord Laharl, Second Post:

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Taking Down Galactus:

Basic Counters:

Galactus battles with Tyrant – a being he created – and entire galaxies are destroyed. (Cosmic Powers #6)

Galactus battles Mephisto in his realm. Their battle destroys galaxies and threatens the universe. (Marvel Graphic Novel #38 – Silver Surfer: Judgment Day)

That certainly shows that Galactus and Mephisto hold high positions in the cosmic scheme of things, but as far as how much power they are able to exert against a singular opponent? It's pretty nebulous IMO.

If you recall, Goku and Beerus performed similar feats throughout their battle:

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Yet most would agree that Goku is teambuster level while Beerus is skyfather (galaxy+) at best.

Then we also have Dialga and Palkia, another set of characters who were tearing reality apart during their battle:

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Yet, by themselves, their attacks are only in the city block+ range:

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To be honest, I don’t really buy gameplay feats or animations as actual feats. Or maybe we could determine somehow how much HP Galactus has? But I will play along.

Really man? I didn't expect this from you. Even as a simple passing comment, this line of argument is completely beneath a debater of your skill level. It's a cop out made by people who would rather dismiss feats than actually address them. Like, why on earth would the writers bother putting in special attacks, animating them, and putting in flavor text; if those abilities aren't meant to be accurate representation of what the characters are actually capable of? Especially when you consider that all of the abilities throughout each of the weapon paths, all show a very consistent level of power relative to each other even down to the tiers.

I mean really. It's a video game. It's inevitable that a lot of feats are going to be told in game-play. This is like reading a novel and dismissing all the feats as "statements". Or reading a comic and dismissing the scans because they aren't shown in real time.

Him saying he can blow up stars proves those speed feats? Or that durability feat?

He didn't just "say he can blow up stars", he actually did it... He was talking about something he did, right after the fact. He literally just returned to the planet, riding a meteor, and bragged about what he just completed doing. At no point did Etna or Flonne show even the slightest bit of disbelief. In fact, Etna's only response was "most demons can do that", to which Laharl had no response for. It was pretty much; "well shit, you're right! Now I feel stupid..."

This clearly shows that the level of power recognized in narrative is perfectly in consistent with what we see in combat animations.

Your best showings here aren’t Laharl’s feats.

Uh, no. Laharl stomped Adell. That in itself is a feat and by it's very nature, is automatically more impressive than Adell's own feats in the same way that Galactus, shredding a Celestial, is automatically a more impressive physical feat than anything that particular Celestial has ever done previously.

Adell's feats are flashier and better for standing on their own, without context, but they are not "more impressive"; unless you ignore the context surrounding Laharl's feats and think blast radius is the only way of quantifying attack potency. In which case, a good majority of your own feats suddenly become vastly less impressive.

Just because someone is more powerful than someone else doesn’t mean they have the same set of abilities.

lol no offense, but it's kind of hard to take this line of argument seriously when its coming from a DBZ fan. There is nothing inherently wrong with scaling. Scaling is a form of context, no different from any other. Some stories rely on it, some less so. I am not even arguing that "more powerful means same set of abilities". This isn't one of Adell's unique character specific techniques, this is just a high speed punching attack.

Laharl is the most powerful boss encountered throughout the entire story portion of the game. Not even the final boss, who stomped Adell, compares. You are supposed to lose against Laharl. You literally cannot beat him, unless you spend an ungodly amount of grinding; in which case your victory is rewarded with a joke ending in which Laharl nukes the world in a temper tantrum.

Bottom line, Adell can strike with the speed and force necessary to replicate the big bang. Laharl is cannonically faster and stronger than him. Therefore, it's perfectly logical to assume Laharl is capable of doing the same. Especially when you consider that Laharl has A rank proficiency with just about every weapon type in the game including fists. At the very least, we know for a fact that Adell can withstand being at the epicenter of his own big bang and Laharl's attacks (while holding back) still damage him significantly. That says all you need to know about what Laharl is capable of.

You’ll have to expand on what you mean by “composite”.

Composite means exactly what it says. He has all abilities he has ever had access to throughout each of his appearances. There are character specific abilities and there are weapon abilities. Though Laharl canonically uses a sword, he is capable of learning any weapon ability in the game. Given his high proficiency in every category, it's quite easy to build him any weapon path you want. Most people select swords simply because they are the best weapon in the game and Laharl is the best character for using them. As composite, I "technically" have access to every ability he is capable of learning.

That said, it's really not that important since I only plan on using abilities that he would logically utilize in character. That means sword related abilities, his own unique spells, as well as various other attacks he has canonically utilized within narrative throughout his various appearances.

Behold, Galactus tears a Celestial in half with his strength (Fantastic Four Vol. 1 #604)

Not even 2 paragraphs after complaining about scaling and you immediately post a feat that is "only" impressive via scaling. With that said, I have no idea how impressive that is supposed to be, since you have not bothered showing what that particular celestial is capable of. Any proof that someone as low as Adell couldn't replicate that same feat?

Galactus can warp reality as well. He was easily able to completely undo all of Terax’s damage to New York City and make the entire populace unaware that the event even transpired (Fantastic Four Vol. 1 #243).

That's a nice feat, but it doesn't prove he can replicate or defend against Laharl's ability to create and completely control 4-Dimensional spaces with the devastating degree of offensive prowess that Disgaea characters can.

He was also able to reconstitute himself, his ship and his heralds/Dr. Strange when destroyed by five Cosmic Cubes whilst in inter-dimensional travel. (Infinity War #3-4).

With what I know of the Cosmic Cubes, this doesn't seem very consistent. Furthermore, he specifically said that they underestimated him, which tells me that they didn't use the cosmic cubes with the same degree of efficiency that the potentially could have. I mean even scraps of the ship got left behind. It certainly doesn't seem to match the same level of efficiency and power that Silver Surfer displayed whilst using only one Cosmic Cube:

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His will to survive is too strong.

That's nice and all, but it doesn't at all seem relevant to the battle at hand. I mean the scan makes it clear that Galactus is completely gone. Sure, he'll reform eventually, but whatever destroyed his body, it was more than long-term enough to be considered a win.

Also... Proof that Galactus can reform from the absolute nothingness that would result from his entire being getting destroyed down to the very fabric of space that encompasses his existence? Proof that he would be able to do so quickly enough to re-enter the fight?

We can use BFR? Galactus can send you both back in time like he did to the Sphinx. Or he can send you both outside of the omniverse.

Laharl is a master at manipulating space-time. He can casually create and control 4 dimensional spaces and utilize them offensively. Proof that Galactus can BFR or reality warp somone with that level of power?

Aside from that, Laharl is more than capable of teleporting across dimensions. I mean the guy shows up in damn near every game ever put out by Nippon Ichi.

With a wave of his hand he can move a galaxy across the universe so I’m sure moving either Laharl or Dormammu won’t prove difficult.

That's cute... Even basic archer servants are capable of doing that once they reach a certain level (And yes, this is a mover that a "composite" Laharl can use as well):

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Demons are constantly trying to kill each other to be Overlord. If any demon with galaxy+ reality warping could simply hax Laharl away, someone would have done so already.

Since Laharl is supposedly being protected by Dormammu, I will cover his other various avenues of defeat below. I still have yet to cover durability but even getting close to a serious Galactus should prove difficult. He’s known to create massive energy maelstroms and electrical storms when powering up.

Again, characters physically inferior to Laharl can withstand being at the epicenter of a Big Bang... Your mailstroms are unimpressive by comparison. Furthermore, Laharl doesn't actually need to be anywhere near you. He can very easily hand back and simply cleave you out of existence from a distance.

"Energy-Being" Nonsense:

Anyway, Galactus has no physical form and is a being of energy. His armor merely encases his energy form and he is perceived how those who see him choose to see him. Piercing Galactus with a sword will be fruitless. I suppose the stated dimensional abilities of the attack could affect Galactus’ force fields but ultimately he is not a physical being that can be defeated in such a manner.

lol I have no idea why you would even bother with this angle. Like, I wouldn't expect the "being of energy" argument to fly against even a street level sorcerer; let alone a reality warping hell-lord who eats big bang level beings for breakfast. Disgaea characters harm spirits, elementals, and other "energy beings" literally all the time.

Laharl throws out giant waves of mystical energy that cleave through entire dimensions. That is not a normal physical attack. Dimensions are comprised of space and time. Space and time are not things you can physically touch, they are concepts that extend well beyond simply being "made of energy". When the fabric of space bends or tears, it effects everything that takes up said space. That includes matter and energy.

Being "comprised of energy" is about as helpful against space-time destruction as being drawn in "permanent ink" is, when the entire page has been doused in oil and lit on fire.

Setting all of that aside, it's NOT EVEN TRUE!

Yes, Galactus is an energy being. No, he is not invulnerable to physical attacks. Galactus gets harmed by physical attacks ALL THE TIME. Especially when said attacks are from characters or weapons that have been mystically or cosmically infused the way Laharl's has.

We're talking about the same character who has been stunned by energy blasts from Thanos:

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Stunned and staggered by strikes from Mjolnir:

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And completely pummeled into submission by Necro King Thor:

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Hell, even Odin who is vastly inferior to Laharl, managed to render Galactus temporarily stunned with a friggen headbutt!

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Seriously, he didn't even need his Odin sword to harm Galactus. In fact, most of these attacks managed to deal considerable damage, without even dealing the kind of bodily damage that a dimension slash from Laharl would.

Disclaimer:

This is NOT me trying to lowball Galactus. I am well aware that many of the above feats have context. Yes, some of those feats, Galactus was starving. Others, he was simply blindsided, or fighting characters with amps, etc.

However, the fact remains, that Galactus is able to be harmed via physical force. He can be harmed, he can be KOed, he can be beaten into submission. Even if Laharl lacked the means to put Galactus down himself, simply smashing through his defenses with a Dimension Slash, would leave Galactus vulnerable to Dormammu's magic. With the Eternity feat, we know for a fact, that Dormammu is capable of defeating abstract entities and putting them down long term. Galactus is far inferior to eternity.

Taking Down the Anti-Spiral

The Initial Battle:

When he faced the Spiral Warriors attacking his dimension, this was the move he pulled when he got tired of their bs. While facing opponents with unknown abilities, I'm sure this is what he'd start with.

Aside from any defenses that my partner, Dormammu, would likely have to prevent this; I really must say... I don't actually see any real evidence that your character would be able to pull off such an attack in a timely fashion.

From what i can tell, most of the speed feats within the series are not due to actual perception speeds on part of the characters, but rather a sheer side effect of their size. It's not that their thought speeds are spread up, it's that the sheer increase in scale, gives them perspective and time to react to attacks, even if they are moving at absurd speeds. It's like how a human might seem like a speedster to a spider even if said spider is proportionally faster than the human.

Now, assuming you did succeed in performing such an attack, I don't see why Laharl couldn't teleport back. Or have his dimension gate pull him back (it's sort of like the MCU Bifrost). Or cleave his way out with a dimension slash. Or escape via Mr Gency's Exit:

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For further info. Mr Gency's Exit is basically a magic door, that Laharl can use to escape dimensions that cannot be left via normal means. The prime example of this are the Item Worlds. Item Worlds are complex micro dimensions that exist inside mystical items. Literally, every mystical item in the entirety of Disgaea verse has them. They are constantly changing and consist of many different levels.

Now, before you try argue game mechanics, I'll point out that items are recognized within Disgaea narrative. For example, at a certain point in the game, one must level up an item to lvl 10 in order to unlock Laharl's dimension gate.

In addition to this, Dormammu himself, can likely enter Laharl's mind and extract him that way:

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Dormammu would have ample time to do this as it's long been established that in the marvel universe, your perception of time on the astral/mental plane is accelerated to a point that it's essentially meaningless altogether:

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AS just got pissed and made an even bigger one, Great Granzeboma:

I'll get more on how to deal with that later. Before that, I'd like to point out, that you likely wouldn't get the chance to grow to that size. As soon we notice your size changing, Dormammu is likely to throw out a Cyttorak bands to bind you.

Meanwhile, Laharl is just going to nuke you while you're small. That or bind you himself, as he also has a binding spell similar to the Cyttorak bands in his Rune Dimension Seals:

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Oh, and in case you try to create an opening by immediately firing off a powerful energy blast, I'll point out that Laharl has shown fully capable of knocking back energy projections with his sword. Here he does it to none other than Overlord Baal:

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Baal is essentially the ultimate evil within Disgaea verse. He is hailed as one of if not the most powerful Overlords in existence, and he appears as a secret boss within every single game in the series. Laharl is the only one who has canonically defeated him in single combat.

His energy projections are capable of casually obliterating pocket dimensions:

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Regarding shields, AS can use probability manipulation to make it so that they don't work even if they do work (now try to understand that

Probability manipulation is essentially just reality warping. You are fighting 2 extremely powerful reality-warpers.

Dealing With the Size

Infinity Big Bang Storm, the sensors in TTGL showed that this attack had enough energy to create universes (though I've seen it translated as both universe or universes, but it's at least universal). All those mechas took that blast for quite some time, and AS was able to damage them with physical blows quite easily beforehand.

Here is the issue. Aside from the fact that your character likely won't have time to grow to such a large size before getting hit with a barrage of attacks... Being that size at all, is sort of a double edged sword.

First, there's the issue of actually using such a wide-spanning attack, without hitting Galactus. It's just not happening. We are all sticking close to Galactus, so if you are firing the beam on us, there is no way he won't be hit by it.

Secondly, Laharl is really, really, really, really, small... So yea, that beam may contain Universal or even universal+ levels of power, but it's larger than several gallaxies...

Laharl wouldn't even feel .000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% of that. Given the level of durability that Disgaea characters have, Laharl could potentially just fly through it. In fact, I don't even see much evidence to prove that the amount of force that would actually be acting on Laharl is any higher than this:

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I mean think about. This is the Big Bang attack, an ability that Laharl is not only able to perform himself, but also characters far weaker than him:

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In order to withstand performing such an attack, there are 3 different threats that said character must be capable of completely no-selling. The first is the obvious one. Being at the epicenter of a big bang level explosion. However, before one gets hit with that, one must also withstand a galaxy+ sized black hole; sucking in matter and energy with enough force to become a big bang. Even before this, one must be able to withstand punching with enough force to completely shatter space-time and trigger each of the above events.

Remember, every action has an equal and opposite reaction. So whenever Adell or Laharl perform the Big Bang attack; their fist is taking the entirety of this force in it's absolute most concentrated form and feeling no damage from it whatsoever....

This isn't even Laharl's best durability feat. No, Laharl's best durability feat, is tanking Dark Liberation:

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Dark Liberation is Zennon's most powerful spell... Who is Zennon? Zennon is an ancient demon god, famous for killing 1000 demon lords and 100 overlords over the course of a single night. Demon lords are like Adell and range from galaxy to big bang levels, while Overlords are the kinds of guys who conquer the domains of demon lords and force them into servitude.

In fact, we later see Zennon completely obliterate an Overlord with a single spell:

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Just so you know, that Overlord was the final boss of Disgaea 2. She may have treated him like fodder, but he was about as proportionally above Adell as Thanos is to Silver Surfer... Still weaker than Laharl's lieutenant, Etna, though...

So yea. We have a being who killed a 1000 demon lords and 100 overlords over a single night, and has shown capable of 1-shotting someone more powerful than Adell. Yet, Laharl took her most powerful spell and was still standing:

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And yes, we know for a fact that Zennon used Dark Liberation in the fight at least once, as when Rozalin enters her Zennon state, the game replaces all of her spells with Dark Liberation. In fact, he arguably tanked the spell as many as 3 times, as that's how many casts it takes to deplete his health game-play wise. Note, the stats that she gains when she enters this state are pre-set and not subject to player choice at all.

So yea, Laharl should be more than tanky enough to fly through your beam. That's not even considering any defensive barriers or amps that Dormammu places on top of his already considerable defenses...

The sheer size of his mecha mean that any attack that doesn't have an absurd large AoE will cause as much damage as a mosquito bite

Assuming you even manage to form your mecha, I don't see why Laharl and Dormammu couldn't simply follow your humanoid form into the cockpit. This can be done via teleportation, or simply blowing hole into your mecha, much like what Simon did. This should be quite easy for a character who regularly deals in massive forces concentrated into such a point that it shatters the very fabric of space.

Even if we had to destroy the whole thing, Laharl should be more than capable of performing attacks of that size, as it's proven that Laharl can control the blast radius of his spells.

Take Overlord's Wrath for example. This is one of Laharl's go to spells, and it's more than capable of harming galaxy+ beings such as Adell.

Usually when Laharl uses the spell, the blast radius is barely even room level:

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However, this same spell was used to destroy the entirety of Veldime in a secret gag ending:

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Yes, a planet is a lot smaller than the multi-gallaxy size of your mecha. However, we already know for a fact that Laharl's attacks deal in Big Bang+ levels of power, as they are capable of harming people with Big Bang levels of durability.

You see, Laharl actually goes out of his way to limit the size of his explosions. As in, it's not that Laharl can make them bigger, it's that he just has to let them be bigger. For proof that it's easier to create larger explosions than smaller ones, one only has to look at the highest tier of elemental magics.

In Disgaea verse, once you start casting elemental spells on the level of Giga magic and Tera magic, one must first summon abstract mystical beings known as the "Spell Keepers". As it's explained, the Spell Keepers do not exist to amplify the power of the spells, but rather limit it's effect on the environment:

In order to make use of the most powerful magic, they needed to summon the beings called the spell keepers. They existed in order to establish the limits to the use of this foreseeably great power, and to protect the users and their surroundings.

Because of the destruction and explosions surpassing understanding, neither sight nor hearing were any use at all. Only, they could understand that within the barriers of the spell keepers, an incredible power was administering the very limits of destruction.

Mekai Senki Disgaea: Returned
Furthermore, the way in which the Spell Keeper's operate is that the summoner has to actually pay mana in order for the Spell Keeper's to cast the spell in their place. In other-words, the Spell Keepers benefit from this transaction, which means that Laharl is actually spending more energy than the spell actually requires; in order to have it's blast radius purposefully limited:

Just as Lamington said, the three Vijan-bots had crumbled momentarily, but the unharmed Vijan had gathered immediately, and recreated them just as they had been. What had diminished were only the tens of thousands of small Vijan hovering in the area.

Laharl turned his head and shouted at Genesis. "Oi, keeper!"

"What is it?"

"Do you intend to demand compensation for magic that didn't work at all?"

"I will accept it for precisely as much as I used."

"That's a rip-off! Discount it for as much as it didn't work!!"

"It did not work, but, because magical energy was consumed, it is the same." Genesis refused to listen and make conversation.

So yea, with this Laharl should be more than capable of nuking your entire mecha in a singular attack.

Conclusion:

  • Laharl is more than capable of KOing or destroying Galactus with his dimension cleaving attacks.
  • Jlone has more or less admitted, that Laharl's dimension cleaving with blow through Galactus's defenses.
  • The Anti-Spiral likely would not have time to perform either of his game-changing spells such as his mind attack or mecha constructs.
  • Even he could perform it, the mind attack likely gets countered by Dormammu's defensive magic while Laharl has plenty of ways of dealing with the giant mecha; either by destroying entirely or just blowing a hole straight into the cockpit.
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