Six paths madara vs momoshiki

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Shintoki

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#1  Edited By Shintoki
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vs

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Rules:

Both characters are at their Prime

Battle distance between contenders is a Mile

Bloodlusted

No BFR/prep

No Composition and novel takes priority over Manga for momoshiki in case there is a contradiction

and battle take place in the mooncell

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(indestructable place)

state reasons for your pick, this is not a poll

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deactivated-5cdf8e3e9b353

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Madara wins.

People try to use the Novels to try and say Momoshiki is solar system level because he absorbed a planet, which is false; By that same logic it would mean base Madara is planet+ level since he absorbed the Juubi which was stated twice to have planet level chakra, and chakra reserves as well as Absorbed Kaguya.

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Momoshiki has no way of seeing limbo, And it stated by Kishimoto to have to same abilities as Madara.

Limbo+Light Fang=dead Momoshiki. oh...didn't see Both was blood lust, Well then Madara one shots with I.T since it is in character for him.

when he was fighting Naruto and sasuke the first two moves he did was CT and T.I since nothing in Momoshiki's arsenal can kill Madara there is nothing stopping Madara from winning this match.

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Yamiyodare

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Momoshiki wins, Madara is overrated.

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Shintoki

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Momoshiki wins, Madara is overrated.

reasons?

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Shintoki

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MoneyyJunee

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Momoshiki

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Redshift_Bacon

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Probably Madara because of his mastery of SO6P Techniques.

But I could also see Momoshiki coming out on top, due to his vastly superior physical stats.

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Shintoki

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batmansolosall

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Geez. I'm guessing stalemate.

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VineC1993

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Madara via better feats

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FullMetalEmprah

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Under these conditions probably Momo although Madara has better hax and regeneration, he may be able to pull something off.

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Madara wins.

Momo doesn't have the Truth-Seeking Balls. They can be used a shield and cannot be absorbed by Momo. Madara also has better fighting experience.

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alextheboss

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Probably Madara. Momoshiki’s only advantage is his physicals.

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WorldofRuin6

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Madara mid-high diff. Regen, tsb, limbo, etc give him the win. Momo is overrated.

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Rxdking

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Madara mid-high diff. Regen, tsb, limbo, etc give him the win. Momo is overrated.

Momo can see through limbo, defend from TSB, and dealed with a way better version of madaras susanoo

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@rxdking said:
@worldofruin6 said:

Madara mid-high diff. Regen, tsb, limbo, etc give him the win. Momo is overrated.

Momo can see through limbo, defend from TSB, and dealed with a way better version of madaras susanoo

Momoshiki can't see through limbo at all. He got wrecked by a Vanishing Rasengan in literally every continuity, What are you talking about? Sasuke was only using the Rib Cage of his Susanoo against Momoshiki. After a Weakened Nauruto and Sasuke combined Susanoo with kurama Momoshiki got Wrecked by a 50% Naruto and sasuke.

Madara would wreck Naruto at 50%, sasuke sure as hell can't beat Madara with 50% of his power. Momoshiki can't see invisible attacks. Limbo is an invisible attack from another Dimension. Momoshiki has no hope of seeing that attack.

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Azureus

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Madara was still relative to War Arc Naruto and Sasuke...so Momoshiki should take it.

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@azureus said:

Madara was still relative to War Arc Naruto and Sasuke...so Momoshiki should take it.

ROFL. what, How are they Relative when they Creator of the series PIS Madara out of the fight just so that Naruto and they could survive? This was even after knowing that Naruto could make 1000s of clones yet The creator still couldn't see Naruto or sasuke winning against Madara.

Naruto in Boruto hasn't even been training and is now weaker that what he was in his prime.

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Earendill

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#20  Edited By Earendill

Madara curbstomps.

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Maddy godstomps. Mismatch. 3 eyed Juubidara, seriously? 1 rinnegan Juubidara is more than enough to kill Momoshiki lmao

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Gaoron

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What's this location from? Looks pretty neat. And Madara, too much versality and hax. Only advantage Momo has are physicals and Madara already took way worse from Guy and regened back.

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#23  Edited By Azureus

@mygod101:

ROFL. what, How are they Relative...

Naruto's shadow clones were going head to head with Madara's Limbo clones. Clones literally possess the same strength as the original. So Naruto and Madara were relative in physical stats, by extension...Sasuke is too. The only advantage Madara had was his insane versatility.

when they Creator of the series PIS Madara out of the fight just so that Naruto and they could survive?

This isn't true, but just your opinion. I still don't see how this is a valid response when you realize Momoshiki was killed by PIS as well.

This was even after knowing that Naruto could make 1000s of clones yet The creator still couldn't see Naruto or sasuke winning against Madara.

So?

Naruto in Boruto hasn't even been training and is now weaker that what he was in his prime.

War-Arc is not Naruto in his Prime. Hokage Naruto is still stronger than that version.

Madara would wreck Naruto at 50% sasuke sure as hell can't beat Madara with 50% of his power.

Funny enough, Madara never even did anything significant to the duo. Everything he threw at them, they overcame. Before he even got his other Rinnegan he had to run from them to avoid getting decimated.

Also...you are aware that War Arc versions of Six Paths Naruto and Sasuke were already tired when those powerups came about...right?

Momoshiki can't see invisible attacks. Limbo is an invisible attack from another Dimension. Momoshiki has no hope of seeing that attack.

Momoshiki has a Rinnegan...so he can see Limbo. Boruto's Rasengan was something else entirely.

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ManimalMan

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Going with madara due to immortality, I also feel like hes more driven and strategic so he can likely outlast or outsmart momo.

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Rabii99

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Versatility: Madara

Intelligence and analyzing the opponent: Madara

Hax: Madara

Chakra avatar: 5 Six paths chakra powered Perfect Susanoo's(obviously)

Regen: Madara

Immortality: Madara

Physicals: Momo

Speed: Momo

H2H: Momo

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Shintoki

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#26  Edited By Shintoki

@azureus said:

@mygod101:

ROFL. what, How are they Relative...

Naruto's shadow clones were going head to head with Madara's Limbo clones. Clones literally possess the same strength as the original. So Naruto and Madara were relative in physical stats, by extension...Sasuke is too. The only advantage Madara had was his insane versatility.

when they Creator of the series PIS Madara out of the fight just so that Naruto and they could survive?

This isn't true, but just your opinion. I still don't see how this is a valid response when you realize Momoshiki was killed by PIS as well.

This was even after knowing that Naruto could make 1000s of clones yet The creator still couldn't see Naruto or sasuke winning against Madara.

So?

Naruto in Boruto hasn't even been training and is now weaker that what he was in his prime.

War-Arc is not Naruto in his Prime. Hokage Naruto is still stronger than that version.

Madara would wreck Naruto at 50% sasuke sure as hell can't beat Madara with 50% of his power.

Funny enough, Madara never even did anything significant to the duo. Everything he threw at them, they overcame. Before he even got his other Rinnegan he had to run from them to avoid getting decimated.

Also...you are aware that War Arc versions of Six Paths Naruto and Sasuke were already tired when those powerups came about...right?

Momoshiki can't see invisible attacks. Limbo is an invisible attack from another Dimension. Momoshiki has no hope of seeing that attack.

Momoshiki has a Rinnegan...so he can see Limbo. Boruto's Rasengan was something else entirely.

some nitpicks

madara PIS (deus ex machina) and Momo are different

Momo was caught off guard via a Surprise attack while lowering his guard and they exploited that as an opening to beat him

madara was beaten via a backstab who did not counter it whatsoever while on guard because (shock/off character) and died from it. (deus ex machina)

SO6S Naruto is still naruto prime version.

and lets face it, they had nothing to beat him with beside (sealing).

Momo rinne is different, No?

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reaverlation

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I agree with Azureus

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Shintoki

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I agree with Azureus

really?, i thought the general consensus among the fandom was that sage of six paths naruto was naruto strongest version?

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@azureus said:

@mygod101:

ROFL. what, How are they Relative...

Naruto's shadow clones were going head to head with Madara's Limbo clones. Clones literally possess the same strength as the original. So Naruto and Madara were relative in physical stats, by extension...Sasuke is too. The only advantage Madara had was his insane versatility.

when they Creator of the series PIS Madara out of the fight just so that Naruto and they could survive?

This isn't true, but just your opinion. I still don't see how this is a valid response when you realize Momoshiki was killed by PIS as well.

This was even after knowing that Naruto could make 1000s of clones yet The creator still couldn't see Naruto or sasuke winning against Madara.

So?

Naruto in Boruto hasn't even been training and is now weaker that what he was in his prime.

War-Arc is not Naruto in his Prime. Hokage Naruto is still stronger than that version.

Madara would wreck Naruto at 50% sasuke sure as hell can't beat Madara with 50% of his power.

Funny enough, Madara never even did anything significant to the duo. Everything he threw at them, they overcame. Before he even got his other Rinnegan he had to run from them to avoid getting decimated.

Also...you are aware that War Arc versions of Six Paths Naruto and Sasuke were already tired when those powerups came about...right?

Momoshiki can't see invisible attacks. Limbo is an invisible attack from another Dimension. Momoshiki has no hope of seeing that attack.

Momoshiki has a Rinnegan...so he can see Limbo. Boruto's Rasengan was something else entirely.

….why are you setting yourself up to get wrecked in here? First off, Only Madara's Limbo clones are stated to be around The originals level of power, Naruto's shadow Clones are not. It is backed up within the whole series and established that Naruto when he makes shadow clones Divides his power among how many clones he has. unless you are implying KCM War Naruto can be one shotted by some fodder from the hidden cloud village, I suggest you think what you said more carefully. so, GG on that.

Naruto survived the limbo's because he was using an Extremely advanced Sage mode from the Sage of Six paths; normal Sage mode Gives you Sharringan perception a massive buff to his reaction time. This was Sage of Six paths Version of it which is leagues better.

Naruto and Sasuke only had one Job, they couldn't even do that. Winning Via touching your opponent is one of the easies roads to victory anyone could ask for. Madara had the clear power advantage against them, especially since the Ten tails it self has small planet to planet + level chakra and chakra reserves. Naruto and sasuke where no where near that level, sasuke and Naruto was only doing good because they were using the Kryptonite of Madara, Obito, and virtually all Otsutsuki which is Sage Mode Jutsu. that can't be argued, Normal Sage mode Naruto was able to damage Ten tails Obito; so unless you think he is above BM Naruto and on BSM Naruto level it clear that they were not on his level at all.

Momoshiki lost because they stopped him from Absorbing Chakra in the end, that is not the same as the Creator deus ex machina in the form of Zetus who is practically weaker than every mid tier on the field with a name.

No, Momoshiki can't see with those Rinnegan on his hands, Occam's Razor says he only used them to absorbed Jutsu nothing more. his Byokugan was his eyes he was using and like I said he can't see something that is not even in this reality when he couldn't even see Boruto's Vanishing Attack, all we know is that is vanishes before it hit and changes it's chakra nature. Sasuke was able to see it. Attack from another dimension>>>>Vanishing attack.

Never said War arc was naruto's prime, I just said he isn't in his prime anymore since he hasn't even been training at all and working behind a deck the whole time, before that he was studying for hokage.

Madara wasn't trying to, All he was trying to do was start the dream world which he did. So again, Madara in character hits Momoshiki with I.T=GG Momoshiki.

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Which is relevant why? It doesn't help your case what so ever. As I already said Madara has planet+ level of chakra, and Chakra reserves when he took in the Ten tails. Then he absorbed the God tree=Kaguya who had absorbed most of the people on the battle field chakra that BM Naruto gave to everyone after reigniting his faith after neji death. It was stated by Kakashi that the power Naruto gave out to everyone was 3x war arc Kakashi's chakra.

Naruto even in the Last struggled against Toneri who wasn't even planet level until the very end when he absorbed that Artificial sun and was going to one shot the earth and Naruto at that point couldn't do shit but watch, only until Toneri was about to explode from all the chakra and Naruto saved him is when Toneri had a change of heart.

1 eyed Madara>>>Toneri.

At Best you could say Momoshiki is stronger than Kaguya in the past when there were like only 3 people which Chakra on the planet, But after that is just reaching. Madara stomps Via Limbo+Light Fang or Just hit him with I.T

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@shintoki:

madara PIS (deus ex machina) and Momo are different

Momo was still killed by PIS as well...your point?

Momo was caught off guard via a Surprise attack while lowering his guard and they exploited that as an opening to beat him

Boruto coming out on top in a Rasengan clash against Momoshiki wielding an equally powerful Rasengan is the most atrocious thing in the new era so far. Can't be defended.

madara was beaten via a backstab who did not counter it whatsoever while on guard because (shock/off character) and died from it. (deus ex machina)

No one disagreed.

SO6S Naruto is still naruto prime version.

This isn't even saying much. There are 3 versions of Post SO6P Naruto. War-Arc, The Last/Blank Period and Hokage/Boruto Era Naruto. The last two would bully War-Arc Naruto.

and lets face it, they had nothing to beat him with beside (sealing).

No one disagreed.

Momo rinne is different, No?

The only difference is the special ability the Rinnegan possess, which varies from user to user anyway. Madara attributed Sasuke seeing Limbo solely to possessing a Rinnegan. What difference is there?

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Madara beats the crap out of momoshiki, momo was vaped by a friggin COR while madara took a Rikudou senjutsu powered Chou Odaama Rasenshuriken in a weakened state and all the while not immortal with nothing but a lil gash in his belly. Madara tanked hits from the strongest taijutsu fighter in the series (also in a weaker form and while not immortal).

- Madara has rikudou senjutsu chakra which is more potent than regular rikudou chakra. As far as potency is concerned madara has more potent chakra.

- Madara is more versatile (I don't think I need to go into that).

- Madara is a better immortal.

- Madara has better avatar (a juubi enhanced PS will be much stronger than momo's golem)

Etc etc

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@mygod101: Madara stomps but limbo has never ever shown the same “abilities” as Madara.

I’m pretty sure the databook was referring to physicals.

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@mygod101:

….why are you setting yourself up to get wrecked in here? First off, Only Madara's Limbo clones are stated to be around The originals level of power, Naruto's shadow Clones are not.

Yet Naruto's clones fought pretty evenly with Madara's Limbo clones...do you not the issue staring you in the face yet?

It is backed up within the whole series and established that Naruto when he makes shadow clones Divides his power among how many clones he has.

That's not the case at all, the original's power is not divided among the clones, it's chakra instead. The clones are literally created to indistinguishable from the original in all aspects. That includes stats with the exception of durability since a strong enough blow could knock them out.

unless you are implying KCM War Naruto can be one shotted by some fodder from the hidden cloud village...

Anyone who's read the series knows that shadow clones can be dispelled with a strong enough hit, so what's the problem?

I suggest you think what you said more carefully. so, GG on that.

I did. You're essentially telling me that a Limbo clone (which you said to be around Madara's level) fought evenly with a clone that carried 1/5th of Naruto's total power (this isn't true, but you said it). So how strong is Madara then?

Naruto survived the limbo's because he was using an Extremely advanced Sage mode from the Sage of Six paths; normal Sage mode Gives you Sharringan perception a massive buff to his reaction time. This was Sage of Six paths Version of it which is leagues better.

Hold on, what? What are you replying to here, and can you elaborate further on this?

Naruto and Sasuke only had one Job, they couldn't even do that. Winning Via touching your opponent is one of the easies roads to victory anyone could ask for.

But how does that prove they were weaker than Madara? It still makes sense they wouldn't easily easily beat Madara, which no one is arguing anyway.

Madara had the clear power advantage against them, especially since the Ten tails it self has small planet to planet + level chakra and chakra reserves.

This isn't true. Reminder he was running away from them to avoid being massacred all because he didn't have his other eye. So Chakra differences don't have a massive role to play, especially considering everything he threw at them was countered.

Naruto and sasuke where no where near that level,

What matters here is the quality of their chakra, not quantity. It's not the amount of chakra that brought them on that level to begin with, its because they got exposed to Six Paths Chakra. Right now, your argument only makes sense in terms of how much Chakra they all possess. It still ignores the fact he was getting rekt when he possesed more chakra than they did.

Sasuke and Naruto was only doing good....

/thread right here.

because they were using the Kryptonite of Madara, Obito, and virtually all Otsutsuki which is Sage Mode Jutsu.

First of all, this would only go for Naruto. Second, Naruto only had access to an energy source that only enables him to hurt Madara with his jutsu. Aside from that, they would need to be powerful enough to do actual damage. Otherwise, if this was the sole reason that they were doing well, why not fight with normal sage mode then?

Normal Sage mode Naruto was able to damage Ten tails Obito; so unless you think he is above BM Naruto and on BSM Naruto level it clear that they were not on his level at all.

Honestly bro, what are you talking about, I never argued any of this.

Momoshiki lost because they stopped him from Absorbing Chakra in the end...

That's the only one part of it. The other is Boruto winning a Rasengan clash against him, which is just poor writing.

that is not the same as the Creator deus ex machina in the form of Zetus who is practically weaker than every mid tier on the field with a name.

I'm not making a comparison to Madara's case.

No, Momoshiki can't see with those Rinnegan on his hands, Occam's Razor says he only used them to absorbed Jutsu nothing more.

So you don't actually have a valid reason as to why he can't see. Alright, ignoring the fact that we're speculating that eyes cannot see, Momoshiki still had a Rinnegan on his forehead.

his Byokugan was his eyes he was using...

Conjecture.

and like I said he can't see something that is not even in this reality...

Willful ignorance.

when he couldn't even see Boruto's Vanishing Attack, all we know is that is vanishes before it hit and changes it's chakra nature. Sasuke was able to see it...

What to do you base this on?

Attack from another dimension>>>>Vanishing attack.

Again, Sasuke could see it with his Rinnegan. Why can't Momoshiki?

Madara wasn't trying to, All he was trying to do was start the dream world which he did. So again, Madara in character hits Momoshiki with I.T=GG Momoshiki.

Character conditions here are bloodlusted...and in character Madara is known for dialing it back quite a bit.

Which is relevant why? It doesn't help your case what so ever.

I don't know what you're replying to. Quote me.

As I already said Madara has planet+ level of chakra, and Chakra reserves when he took in the Ten tails. Then he absorbed the God tree=Kaguya who had absorbed most of the people...

Not true. The shinju didn't absorb the jutsu from most of the ninja present.

Naruto even in the Last struggled against Toneri...

I don't recall a struggle till the end. It was an even match. Regardless, Naruto was BSM in that fight and was running on fumes...since he had released Kurama to fight elsewhere.

who wasn't even planet level until the very end when he absorbed that Artificial sun and was going to one shot the earth and Naruto at that point couldn't do shit but watch, only until Toneri was about to explode from all the chakra and Naruto saved him is when Toneri had a change of heart.

1 eyed Madara>>>Toneri.

At Best you could say Momoshiki is stronger than Kaguya in the past when there were like only 3 people which Chakra on the planet, But after that is just reaching. Madara stomps Via Limbo+Light Fang or Just hit him with I.T

You lost me right here. Momoshiki was above Hokage Naruto and Sasuke individually.

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Momoshiki hasn’t even shown anything on the level of juubito, let alone kaguya.

I’m surprised to see people claiming that he wins.

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@azureus said:

@mygod101:

….why are you setting yourself up to get wrecked in here? First off, Only Madara's Limbo clones are stated to be around The originals level of power, Naruto's shadow Clones are not.

Yet Naruto's clones fought pretty evenly with Madara's Limbo clones...do you not the issue staring you in the face yet?

It is backed up within the whole series and established that Naruto when he makes shadow clones Divides his power among how many clones he has.

That's not the case at all, the original's power is not divided among the clones, it's chakra instead. The clones are literally created to indistinguishable from the original in all aspects. That includes stats with the exception of durability since a strong enough blow could knock them out.

unless you are implying KCM War Naruto can be one shotted by some fodder from the hidden cloud village...

Anyone who's read the series knows that shadow clones can be dispelled with a strong enough hit, so what's the problem?

I suggest you think what you said more carefully. so, GG on that.

I did. You're essentially telling me that a Limbo clone (which you said to be around Madara's level) fought evenly with a clone that carried 1/5th of Naruto's total power (this isn't true, but you said it). So how strong is Madara then?

Naruto survived the limbo's because he was using an Extremely advanced Sage mode from the Sage of Six paths; normal Sage mode Gives you Sharringan perception a massive buff to his reaction time. This was Sage of Six paths Version of it which is leagues better.

Hold on, what? What are you replying to here, and can you elaborate further on this?

Naruto and Sasuke only had one Job, they couldn't even do that. Winning Via touching your opponent is one of the easies roads to victory anyone could ask for.

But how does that prove they were weaker than Madara? It still makes sense they wouldn't easily easily beat Madara, which no one is arguing anyway.

Madara had the clear power advantage against them, especially since the Ten tails it self has small planet to planet + level chakra and chakra reserves.

This isn't true. Reminder he was running away from them to avoid being massacred all because he didn't have his other eye. So Chakra differences don't have a massive role to play, especially considering everything he threw at them was countered.

Naruto and sasuke where no where near that level,

What matters here is the quality of their chakra, not quantity. It's not the amount of chakra that brought them on that level to begin with, its because they got exposed to Six Paths Chakra. Right now, your argument only makes sense in terms of how much Chakra they all possess. It still ignores the fact he was getting rekt when he possesed more chakra than they did.

Sasuke and Naruto was only doing good....

/thread right here.

because they were using the Kryptonite of Madara, Obito, and virtually all Otsutsuki which is Sage Mode Jutsu.

First of all, this would only go for Naruto. Second, Naruto only had access to an energy source that only enables him to hurt Madara with his jutsu. Aside from that, they would need to be powerful enough to do actual damage. Otherwise, if this was the sole reason that they were doing well, why not fight with normal sage mode then?

Normal Sage mode Naruto was able to damage Ten tails Obito; so unless you think he is above BM Naruto and on BSM Naruto level it clear that they were not on his level at all.

Honestly bro, what are you talking about, I never argued any of this.

Momoshiki lost because they stopped him from Absorbing Chakra in the end...

That's the only one part of it. The other is Boruto winning a Rasengan clash against him, which is just poor writing.

that is not the same as the Creator deus ex machina in the form of Zetus who is practically weaker than every mid tier on the field with a name.

I'm not making a comparison to Madara's case.

No, Momoshiki can't see with those Rinnegan on his hands, Occam's Razor says he only used them to absorbed Jutsu nothing more.

So you don't actually have a valid reason as to why he can't see. Alright, ignoring the fact that we're speculating that eyes cannot see, Momoshiki still had a Rinnegan on his forehead.

his Byokugan was his eyes he was using...

Conjecture.

and like I said he can't see something that is not even in this reality...

Willful ignorance.

when he couldn't even see Boruto's Vanishing Attack, all we know is that is vanishes before it hit and changes it's chakra nature. Sasuke was able to see it...

What to do you base this on?

Attack from another dimension>>>>Vanishing attack.

Again, Sasuke could see it with his Rinnegan. Why can't Momoshiki?

Madara wasn't trying to, All he was trying to do was start the dream world which he did. So again, Madara in character hits Momoshiki with I.T=GG Momoshiki.

Character conditions here are bloodlusted...and in character Madara is known for dialing it back quite a bit.

Which is relevant why? It doesn't help your case what so ever.

I don't know what you're replying to. Quote me.

As I already said Madara has planet+ level of chakra, and Chakra reserves when he took in the Ten tails. Then he absorbed the God tree=Kaguya who had absorbed most of the people...

Not true. The shinju didn't absorb the jutsu from most of the ninja present.

Naruto even in the Last struggled against Toneri...

I don't recall a struggle till the end. It was an even match. Regardless, Naruto was BSM in that fight and was running on fumes...since he had released Kurama to fight elsewhere.

who wasn't even planet level until the very end when he absorbed that Artificial sun and was going to one shot the earth and Naruto at that point couldn't do shit but watch, only until Toneri was about to explode from all the chakra and Naruto saved him is when Toneri had a change of heart.

1 eyed Madara>>>Toneri.

At Best you could say Momoshiki is stronger than Kaguya in the past when there were like only 3 people which Chakra on the planet, But after that is just reaching. Madara stomps Via Limbo+Light Fang or Just hit him with I.T

You lost me right here. Momoshiki was above Hokage Naruto and Sasuke individually.

The relevant parts of your post I will Reply to.

Yet Naruto's clones fought pretty evenly with Madara's Limbo clones...do you not the issue staring you in the face yet?

I Already explained that. He was using Six paths Sage mode which is far more efficient form of Sage Mode. Normal Sage mode gives a massive buff to all of your sense, and Reaction speed; Kurama Sage Mode is even better than normal sage mode. You are being willfully ignorant here, Because we only see Naruto's Clones fight the limbo for like 10 seconds.

Lasting 10 seconds in your eyes counts for doing "good" and fought "evenly" then okay...I guess, but that doesn't mean they are even ROFL.

That's not the case at all, the original's power is not divided among the clones, it's chakra instead. The clones are literally created to indistinguishable from the original in all aspects. That includes stats with the exception of durability since a strong enough blow could knock them out.

okay, doesn't change anything. lasting 10 seconds doesn't equal being even with someone. If you want to think that then like you said it your opinion, but don't claim it as facts. It just mean they have crap Durability really, this was a response to your clones being able to be dispelled by strong enough attack. Like I said, they are glass canon at that point.

I did. You're essentially telling me that a Limbo clone (which you said to be around Madara's level) fought evenly with a clone that carried 1/5th of Naruto's total power (this isn't true, but you said it). So how strong is Madara then?

LMFAO. They didn't fight evenly fi they only could handle 10 seconds of Madara's Limbo clones. right now you are exaggerating scenes. can you even tell me all what happened in that 10 seconds? Exactly. you can't, Naruto and the Limbo clones exchanged 2 punches then it went to off screen. when it returned Limbo clones had already defeated Naruto's shadow clones.

Hold on, what? What are you replying to here, and can you elaborate further on this?

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With Normal Sage mode, Naruto was able to perceive and feel how powerful the ten tails Was. He couldn't feel or sense the ten tails in BM form. As I said Sage mode gives a massive buff to all the other senses.

As you can see Ten tails Chakra, and chakra reserves are in the form of a planet. so again, unless you think Naruto from the war has planet+ Chakra, and Chakra reserves they were nowhere near Madara level at all this was stated more than once. that was just first Form Ten tails. TBH I think the Ten tails currently was more powerful than the one in the past because all the tailed beast back then where young and inexperience, but that is a debate for another day.

But how does that prove they were weaker than Madara? It still makes sense they wouldn't easily easily beat Madara, which no one is arguing anyway.

Because they were not aiming to defeat him, they goal was to touch him with the seals which they couldn't, and Kishimoto stated they have no way of defeating Madara.

This isn't true. Reminder he was running away from them to avoid being massacred all because he didn't have his other eye. So Chakra differences don't have a massive role to play, especially considering everything he threw at them was countered

LMFAO. They were not Massacring him, now you are definitely making shit up. All Sasuke did was place a sword in Madara which did no damage; Even when Naruto Caught Madara off guard after Sasuke moved to a different place, Naruto still couldn't get a hit on him in that moment.

Then your previous post about the Blank period Naruto, and Hokage Naruto being able to bully War arc naruto is irrelevant post since you are back peddling saying chakra difference don't have a massive role to play. so same rules apply there to buddy.

Naruto and Sasuke Teamwork was also working against Kaguya. So, that just backs up and reinforces what You just said. The Difference here is Madara has at least 70+ more years of fighting experience, knowledge of more jutsu and just being in war at a young age then Naruto and Sasuke combined. which is why I call it simply PIS.

Madara ran to get his other Eye, which he was trying to do since before he fought Gai sense and Obito stealing powers from Madara.

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What matters here is the quality of their chakra, not quantity. It's not the amount of chakra that brought them on that level to begin with, its because they got exposed to Six Paths Chakra. Right now, your argument only makes sense in terms of how much Chakra they all possess. It still ignores the fact he was getting rekt when he possesed more chakra than they did.

Too bad the Kishimoto doesn't agree with you otherwise he would have let Naruto and Sasuke beat Madara, But he himself stated they couldn't win. So again, PIS.

First of all, this would only go for Naruto. Second, Naruto only had access to an energy source that only enables him to hurt Madara with his jutsu. Aside from that, they would need to be powerful enough to do actual damage. Otherwise, if this was the sole reason that they were doing well, why not fight with normal sage mode then?

I skipped over your above post because you are forgetting why we are here. We are debating Momoshiki Vs Madara, not Naruto and Sasuke being able to hold up against Madara because PIS.

I already explained to you, Six path Sage mode is far better than the other Kurama sage mode, and normal Sage mode. because Six path Sage mode gives Naruto the ability to sense presences from another Dimension, while the others don't.

Like I said Naruto in normal Sage mode still put damage on Juubi Obito, Which debunks your claim they don't need to be of the same level just need Sage mode and then they can hurt them, and damage them.

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Congratulations, by your logic then Sasuke even with Rinnegan can't Hurt Limbo since you said he doesn't have Six path Sage mode. Since Momoshiki is incapable of Senjutsu, he can't harm Madara. Momoshiki's absorption is basically Madara's Preta Path, not to forget that Madara while juubi absorbed is highly Resistance to Ninjutsu physically. Madara can still hurt Momoshiki if he manages to avoid his right palm (like Sasuke's chidori), but Momoshiki can't damage him with Ninjutsu anyway he hits. So it comes down to Taijutsu, which we have no way of knowing who is better.

Fact is Momoshiki can't kill Madara since he is immortal, while Madara has plenty of ways to beat Momoshiki without even laying a hand on him.

The rest of your comments or not really that important, but I'll put down something for them.

About you mentioning the characters conditions of them being bloodlust, again that doesn't matter because Madara for the most part is going to hit Momoshiki with I.T since that was the first thing he went to do once he got his other eye back.

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Madara has the clear advantage here he has everything Sasuke has except Amenojikara, portal opening. Madara has f

The God tree did Absorb a lot of Shinobi's go back and watch the scenes where it was taking almost everyone chakra until Naruto teleported rest of the people out.

Regardless of that the God Tree is Kaguya, so it gave still gave a massive boost in powers just like Kinishiki gave Momoshiki a massive boost in power.

Madara has larger chakra reserves then Adult Sasuke. This is no brainer. His Susanoo is the size of the Juubi which massively bigger than Sasuke's Susanoo.

I asked why was it relevant to your response to Momoshiki having a Rinnegan. Momoshiki can't take in attacks he can't see.

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Sasuke with Rinnegan was able to See Boruto's Attack and perceive it just fine, while Momoshiki couldn't. so Occam's Razor he can't see Limbo Sasuke was able to See Limbo because his eyes unlocked Rinnegan. Momoshiki's eyes didn't unlock Rinnegan.

Momoshiki was more powerful than 50% Naruto and Sasuke individually. 100% Naruto or Sasuke can defeat Momoshiki individual combat. Regardless like I said Madara has larger Chakra, and Chakra reserves than Adult Sasuke who had 50% could handle and Damage fused momoshiki.

As I pointed out you can make the claim of Momoshiki being more powerful than Kaguya in the past when there were only 3 people alive with chakra. That Kaguya is incapable of chakra-taxing abilities such as environment change, portal creation and ETSB. 4th Ninja War Kaguya is far beyond the Kaguya in the past, and the Scroll Sasuke found was from Kaguya in the past. had He fought Kaguya currenly, Momoshiki would have gotten Wrecked and one shotted by T.I

Boruto with the combined powers of Naruto beat Momoshiki. that isn't PIS, Momoshiki at that point was weakened from taking the beating of his life by Naruto and Sasuke who where at 50% of their powers, and also weakened.

PIS was Boruto's Vanishing Resengan knocking out Momoshiki, and freeing the Kages, but him being Killed by Boruto and Naruto's power combined wasn't PIS.

/Thread.

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I'd Like to point out that it is headcanon to assume any different then what the scans say about Limbo. It stated they have the same level, and Ability of the original, even in the ninja 4 storm game(even those it secondary canon) still had the backing of Kishimoto. by that same logic no one can use the games to say Naruto can create 5k Clones since that was only stated in the game no where else.

To my point, it shouldn't be hard to believe Limbo clones can all the abilities of Madara, when Naruto shadow clones are able to go Kurama Avatar, and EDO Madara can make his wood clones all go Susanoo. Limbo's are Shadows of Madara from another Dimension as it was stated they have the same abilities as Madara.

OT: Madara win here in a stomp.

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#38  Edited By Supermanforever

Madara slaughters.

Madara has senjutsu Momoshiki does not.

Madara has imortal body Momoshiki does not.

Madara has imense healing power Momoshiki does not.

Madara is juubi jinchuriki and has shit ton of chakras. Momoshiki has no jinchuriki and relies on chakra pills.

Madara has truth seeking balls Momoshiki does not.

Madara is superior fighter and tactician.

Madara has double rinnegan and rinnesharingan>3 rinnegan and 2 byakguan.

Madara has limbo abilities that Momoshiki can not counter, because he has no senjutsu. So he would have to fight 5 Madaras at the same time 4 of which he cant even target.

Madara has yin/yang release Momoshiki has only yin release.

Madara in short stomps Momoshiki. He got literaly battered by weakened Naruto and Sasuke in less than a minute, meanwhile Naruto and Sasuke could not even put Madara down until the end.

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A Limbo clone going all out would solo Momo.

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#40  Edited By Azureus

@mygod101:

I Already explained that. He was using Six paths Sage mode which is far more efficient form of Sage Mode. Normal Sage mode gives a massive buff to all of your sense, and Reaction speed; Kurama Sage Mode is even better than normal sage mode.

None of this counters or even addresses the point I made here. What does this change about the Naruto's shadow clones being roughly on par with Madara's own Limbo clones?

You are being willfully ignorant here, Because we only see Naruto's Clones fight the limbo for like 10 seconds.

And? This goes both ways. You say Naruto's clones fought Madara's Limbo clones briefly, but fail to see the same thing can be said in reverse. In other words, there's no objectivity to your claim the Limbo clones are superior.

Lasting...

The bias is evident. There was no "lasting 10 seconds" against Limbo clones. The brief scuffle we saw gave no indication of who was gaining or losing ground. We saw an even match up.

10 seconds in your eyes counts for doing "good" and fought "evenly" then okay...I guess, but that doesn't mean they are even ROFL.

What does it mean then? Are you going to dismiss it and yet argue the Limbo clones are superior, while ignoring the only bit of information?

okay, doesn't change anything. lasting 10 seconds doesn't equal being even with someone. If you want to think that then like you said it your opinion, but don't claim it as facts.

Concession accepted.

Because they were not aiming to defeat him, they goal was to touch him with the seals which they couldn't, and Kishimoto stated they have no way of defeating Madara.

Which leads to the same question again...how does this prove they're weaker than Madara? You seem to forget he hasn't done anything to them yet.

LMFAO. They were not Massacring him, now you are definitely making shit up. All Sasuke did was place a sword in Madara which did no damage; Even when Naruto Caught Madara off guard after Sasuke moved to a different place, Naruto still couldn't get a hit on him in that moment.

Naruto's first appearance in SPSM had Madara trying to run away from him and get hit with a Rasenshuriken. Later on Madara ran away after nearly being sealed as he needed his other Rinnegan. Nor did I say they massacred him, I said he ran away to prevent that from happening, and seeing how he nearly got beaten with that single move, it's a fair assessment.

Then your previous post about the Blank period Naruto, and Hokage Naruto being able to bully War arc naruto is irrelevant post since you are back peddling saying chakra difference don't have a massive role to play. so same rules apply there to buddy.

I mean they don't, but having more chakra isn't the reason I think any version of Naruto after the war would win against his War-Arc SPSM.

Naruto and Sasuke Teamwork was also working against Kaguya.

There's only one instance of this lol...and the same can quite literally be said for Madara.

So, that just backs up and reinforces what You just said. The Difference here is Madara has at least 70+ more years of fighting experience, knowledge of more jutsu and just being in war at a young age then Naruto and Sasuke combined. which is why I call it simply PIS.

Madara was inactive (combat-wise) after his battle with Hashirama at the VoTE....and just like the size of chakra reserves, having more knowledge of more jutsu and experience doesn't prove anything. You should know this.

Madara ran to get his other Eye, which he was trying to do since before he fought Gai sense and Obito stealing powers from Madara.

While I don't deny it, he also had an entire monologue where he admits that Naruto and Sasuke are legitimate threats to him and that he needs to acquire his other eye as soon as possible.

Too bad the Kishimoto doesn't agree with you...

There are several instances of individuals who don't possess nearly as much chakra as their opponent and still win. So it is completely beyond me that you think this as more chakra =/= a more powerful character.

otherwise he would have let Naruto and Sasuke beat Madara...

This is literally coming from nowhere.

But he himself stated they couldn't win. So again, PIS.

Well the truth of the matter is Madara was portrayed as inferior prior to acquiring the second Rinnegan, where the conflict evened out. So I don't see what here is PIS.

I skipped over your above post because you are forgetting why we are here. We are debating Momoshiki Vs Madara, not Naruto and Sasuke being able to hold up against Madara because PIS.

You are the one who brought this topic up...all I said was that Madara was relative to War-Arc Naruto and Sasuke, which is the plain truth.

I already explained to you, Six path Sage mode is far better than the other Kurama sage mode, and normal Sage mode. because Six path Sage mode gives Naruto the ability to sense presences from another Dimension, while the others don't.

But what does this change to begin with?

Like I said Naruto in normal Sage mode still put damage on Juubi Obito, Which debunks your claim they don't need to be of the same level just need Sage mode and then they can hurt them, and damage them.

Huh? That was not a claim, but a question you still haven't answered. I said if how well they were performing can be exclusively linked to using senjutsu like you said, how come normal sage mode wasn't enough?

Congratulations, by your logic then Sasuke even with Rinnegan can't Hurt Limbo since you said he doesn't have Six path Sage mode.

This is a telltale sign you didn't get what I said. Again, you said the only reason they were perfoming well was that because they were using Madara's weakness (senjutsu).

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What I did here was point out that Sasuke doesn't have senjutsu. The only way you can gather that Sasuke can't hurt Limbo is if you ignore that it's Six Paths Chakra in general that would be effective on the clones...not to mention that the previous point didn't even address Limbo to begin with. What would this mean for your point then?

Since Momoshiki is incapable of Senjutsu, he can't harm Madara.

This is a lie. Characters who don't wield Senjutsu have harmed Madara be it through physical attacks like Guy or some Six Paths jutsu like Sasuke.

Momoshiki's absorption is basically Madara's Preta Path,

Except that it can absorb a lot more than chakra and most jutsu...and that Momoshiki himself has access to this.

not to forget that Madara while juubi absorbed is highly Resistance to Ninjutsu physically. Madara can still hurt Momoshiki if he manages to avoid his right palm (like Sasuke's chidori), but Momoshiki can't damage him with Ninjutsu anyway he hits. So it comes down to Taijutsu, which we have no way of knowing who is better.

It's clear as day that physicals go solely to Momoshiki here.

Fact is Momoshiki can't kill Madara since he is immortal, while Madara has plenty of ways to beat Momoshiki without even laying a hand on him.

IT aside, there's nothing especially threatening.

The rest of your comments or not really that important, but I'll put down something for them.

About you mentioning the characters conditions of them being bloodlust, again that doesn't matter because Madara for the most part is going to hit Momoshiki with I.T since that was the first thing he went to do once he got his other eye back.

...Because that had been his goal the entire time. The entire reason he had to even fight at all was casting that jutsu. That's not the case here.

Madara has the clear advantage here he has everything Sasuke has except Amenojikara, portal opening. Madara has f

I don't know what you're replying to.

The God tree did Absorb a lot of Shinobi's go back and watch the scenes where it was taking almost everyone chakra until Naruto teleported rest of the people out.

There were 10s of thousands of shinobi present. How many were killed by the Shinjuu's roots?

Regardless of that the God Tree is Kaguya,

Just a portion.

Madara has larger chakra reserves then Adult Sasuke. This is no brainer. His Susanoo is the size of the Juubi which massively bigger than Sasuke's Susanoo.

Madara's susanoo is not the size of the ten tails lmfao. But he does have more chakra than Sasuke.

I asked why was it relevant to your response to Momoshiki having a Rinnegan. Momoshiki can't take in attacks he can't see.

...Because he can't see them...

Sasuke with Rinnegan was able to See Boruto's Attack and perceive it just fine so Occam's Razor he can't see Limbo Sasuke was able to See Limbo because his eyes unlocked Rinnegan. Momoshiki's eyes didn't unlock Rinnegan.

There's no evidence Sasuke saw it... Madara said Sasuke could see Limbo due to his Rinnegan. So there's no reason Momoshiki can't see the Limbo clone.

Momoshiki was more powerful than 50% Naruto and Sasuke individually.

Madara faced off with what's less than this...and still never did anything to them.

100% Naruto or Sasuke can defeat Momoshiki individual combat.

We don't know that.

Regardless like I said Madara has larger Chakra, and Chakra reserves than Adult Sasuke who had 50%...

Sasuke's chakra level was never given...and one dimension hop wouldn't drain him either, seeing as he Rinnegan was still fully charged.

could handle and Damage fused momoshiki.

Only with Naruto there to back him really. Without each other's involvement things began taking a different turn.

As I pointed out you can make the claim of Momoshiki being more powerful than Kaguya in the past when there were only 3 people alive with chakra. That Kaguya is incapable of chakra-taxing abilities such as environment change, portal creation and ETSB. 4th Ninja War Kaguya is far beyond the Kaguya in the past, and the Scroll Sasuke found was from Kaguya in the past. had He fought Kaguya currenly, Momoshiki would have gotten Wrecked and one shotted by T.I

Are you referring to Kaguya prior to consuming the chakra fruit, or afterwards because this implies the period of time with Hagoromo, Hamura and Kaguya...meaning that would be post-shinjuu Kaguya...who is the exact same Kaguya we see at the end of the war...and by Hagoromo's own admission is stronger than anyone.

Boruto with the combined powers of Naruto beat Momoshiki. that isn't PIS,

Momoshiki had just momemts earlier kept up with Sasuke. Even weakened he is still miles ahead of Boruto. How is that not PIS?

Momoshiki at that point was weakened from taking the beating of his life by Naruto and Sasuke who where at 50% of their powers...

Naruto was at 50% Chakra, not overall power. Sasuke's nerf would still be near negligible at best...and Momoshiki wouldn't be weakened to the point where a below jonin tier character could even take him out. That doesn't even make sense.

PIS was Boruto's Vanishing Resengan knocking out Momoshiki, and freeing the Kages...

Sure...

but him being Killed by Boruto and Naruto's power combined wasn't PIS.

The Rasengan killing him wasn't even Boruto's it was essentially Naruto's with Boruto's chakra nature added. But that's not the problem. I have no issue with the Rasengan killing him, I take issue with Boruto winning that Rasengan clash at all. Makes no damn sense.

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@ourmanuel:

Momoshiki hasn’t even shown anything on the level of juubito...

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@azureus said:

@ourmanuel:

Momoshiki hasn’t even shown anything on the level of juubito...
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Yep, you heard me.

The only thing he has over juubito is durability, seeing as even normal sage rasengans could hurt juubito.

Asides from that, there’s nothing else I can remember from him that was above what juubito’s shown.

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@azureus said:

@mygod101:

I Already explained that. He was using Six paths Sage mode which is far more efficient form of Sage Mode. Normal Sage mode gives a massive buff to all of your sense, and Reaction speed; Kurama Sage Mode is even better than normal sage mode.

None of this counters or even addresses the point I made here. What does this change about the Naruto's shadow clones being roughly on par with Madara's own Limbo clones?

You are being willfully ignorant here, Because we only see Naruto's Clones fight the limbo for like 10 seconds.

And? This goes both ways. You say Naruto's clones fought Madara's Limbo clones briefly, but fail to see the same thing can be said in reverse. In other words, there's no objectivity to your claim the Limbo clones are superior.

Lasting...

The bias is evident. There was no "lasting 10 seconds" against Limbo clones. The brief scuffle we saw gave no indication of who was gaining or losing ground. We saw an even match up.

10 seconds in your eyes counts for doing "good" and fought "evenly" then okay...I guess, but that doesn't mean they are even ROFL.

What does it mean then? Are you going to dismiss it and yet argue the Limbo clones are superior, while ignoring the only bit of information?

okay, doesn't change anything. lasting 10 seconds doesn't equal being even with someone. If you want to think that then like you said it your opinion, but don't claim it as facts.

Concession accepted.

Because they were not aiming to defeat him, they goal was to touch him with the seals which they couldn't, and Kishimoto stated they have no way of defeating Madara.

Which leads to the same question again...how does this prove they're weaker than Madara? You seem to forget he hasn't done anything to them yet.

LMFAO. They were not Massacring him, now you are definitely making shit up. All Sasuke did was place a sword in Madara which did no damage; Even when Naruto Caught Madara off guard after Sasuke moved to a different place, Naruto still couldn't get a hit on him in that moment.

Naruto's first appearance in SPSM had Madara trying to run away from him and get hit with a Rasenshuriken. Later on Madara ran away after nearly being sealed as he needed his other Rinnegan. Nor did I say they massacred him, I said he ran away to prevent that from happening, and seeing how he nearly got beaten with that single move, it's a fair assessment.

Then your previous post about the Blank period Naruto, and Hokage Naruto being able to bully War arc naruto is irrelevant post since you are back peddling saying chakra difference don't have a massive role to play. so same rules apply there to buddy.

I mean they don't, but having more chakra isn't the reason I think any version of Naruto after the war would win against his War-Arc SPSM.

Naruto and Sasuke Teamwork was also working against Kaguya.

There's only one instance of this lol...and the same can quite literally be said for Madara.

So, that just backs up and reinforces what You just said. The Difference here is Madara has at least 70+ more years of fighting experience, knowledge of more jutsu and just being in war at a young age then Naruto and Sasuke combined. which is why I call it simply PIS.

Madara was inactive (combat-wise) after his battle with Hashirama at the VoTE....and just like the size of chakra reserves, having more knowledge of more jutsu and experience doesn't prove anything. You should know this.

Madara ran to get his other Eye, which he was trying to do since before he fought Gai sense and Obito stealing powers from Madara.

While I don't deny it, he also had an entire monologue where he admits that Naruto and Sasuke are legitimate threats to him and that he needs to acquire his other eye as soon as possible.

Too bad the Kishimoto doesn't agree with you...

There are several instances of individuals who don't possess nearly as much chakra as their opponent and still win. So it is completely beyond me that you think this as more chakra =/= a more powerful character.

otherwise he would have let Naruto and Sasuke beat Madara...

This is literally coming from nowhere.

But he himself stated they couldn't win. So again, PIS.

Well the truth of the matter is Madara was portrayed as inferior prior to acquiring the second Rinnegan, where the conflict evened out. So I don't see what here is PIS.

I skipped over your above post because you are forgetting why we are here. We are debating Momoshiki Vs Madara, not Naruto and Sasuke being able to hold up against Madara because PIS.

You are the one who brought this topic up...all I said was that Madara was relative to War-Arc Naruto and Sasuke, which is the plain truth.

I already explained to you, Six path Sage mode is far better than the other Kurama sage mode, and normal Sage mode. because Six path Sage mode gives Naruto the ability to sense presences from another Dimension, while the others don't.

But what does this change to begin with?

Like I said Naruto in normal Sage mode still put damage on Juubi Obito, Which debunks your claim they don't need to be of the same level just need Sage mode and then they can hurt them, and damage them.

Huh? That was not a claim, but a question you still haven't answered. I said if how well they were performing can be exclusively linked to using senjutsu like you said, how come normal sage mode wasn't enough?

Congratulations, by your logic then Sasuke even with Rinnegan can't Hurt Limbo since you said he doesn't have Six path Sage mode.

This is a telltale sign you didn't get what I said. Again, you said the only reason they were perfoming well was that because they were using Madara's weakness (senjutsu).

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What I did here was point out that Sasuke doesn't have senjutsu. The only way you can gather that Sasuke can't hurt Limbo is if you ignore that it's Six Paths Chakra in general that would be effective on the clones...not to mention that the previous point didn't even address Limbo to begin with. What would this mean for your point then?

Since Momoshiki is incapable of Senjutsu, he can't harm Madara.

This is a lie. Characters who don't wield Senjutsu have harmed Madara be it through physical attacks like Guy or some Six Paths jutsu like Sasuke.

Momoshiki's absorption is basically Madara's Preta Path,

Except that it can absorb a lot more than chakra and most jutsu...and that Momoshiki himself has access to this.

not to forget that Madara while juubi absorbed is highly Resistance to Ninjutsu physically. Madara can still hurt Momoshiki if he manages to avoid his right palm (like Sasuke's chidori), but Momoshiki can't damage him with Ninjutsu anyway he hits. So it comes down to Taijutsu, which we have no way of knowing who is better.

It's clear as day that physicals go solely to Momoshiki here.

Fact is Momoshiki can't kill Madara since he is immortal, while Madara has plenty of ways to beat Momoshiki without even laying a hand on him.

IT aside, there's nothing especially threatening.

The rest of your comments or not really that important, but I'll put down something for them.

About you mentioning the characters conditions of them being bloodlust, again that doesn't matter because Madara for the most part is going to hit Momoshiki with I.T since that was the first thing he went to do once he got his other eye back.

...Because that had been his goal the entire time. The entire reason he had to even fight at all was casting that jutsu. That's not the case here.

Madara has the clear advantage here he has everything Sasuke has except Amenojikara, portal opening. Madara has f

I don't know what you're replying to.

The God tree did Absorb a lot of Shinobi's go back and watch the scenes where it was taking almost everyone chakra until Naruto teleported rest of the people out.

There were 10s of thousands of shinobi present. How many were killed by the Shinjuu's roots?

Regardless of that the God Tree is Kaguya,

Just a portion.

Madara has larger chakra reserves then Adult Sasuke. This is no brainer. His Susanoo is the size of the Juubi which massively bigger than Sasuke's Susanoo.

Madara's susanoo is not the size of the ten tails lmfao. But he does have more chakra than Sasuke.

I asked why was it relevant to your response to Momoshiki having a Rinnegan. Momoshiki can't take in attacks he can't see.

...Because he can't see them...

Sasuke with Rinnegan was able to See Boruto's Attack and perceive it just fine so Occam's Razor he can't see Limbo Sasuke was able to See Limbo because his eyes unlocked Rinnegan. Momoshiki's eyes didn't unlock Rinnegan.

There's no evidence Sasuke saw it... Madara said Sasuke could see Limbo due to his Rinnegan. So there's no reason Momoshiki can't see the Limbo clone.

Momoshiki was more powerful than 50% Naruto and Sasuke individually.

Madara faced off with what's less than this...and still never did anything to them.

100% Naruto or Sasuke can defeat Momoshiki individual combat.

We don't know that.

Regardless like I said Madara has larger Chakra, and Chakra reserves than Adult Sasuke who had 50%...

Sasuke's chakra level was never given...and one dimension hop wouldn't drain him either, seeing as he Rinnegan was still fully charged.

could handle and Damage fused momoshiki.

Only with Naruto there to back him really. Without each other's involvement things began taking a different turn.

As I pointed out you can make the claim of Momoshiki being more powerful than Kaguya in the past when there were only 3 people alive with chakra. That Kaguya is incapable of chakra-taxing abilities such as environment change, portal creation and ETSB. 4th Ninja War Kaguya is far beyond the Kaguya in the past, and the Scroll Sasuke found was from Kaguya in the past. had He fought Kaguya currenly, Momoshiki would have gotten Wrecked and one shotted by T.I

Are you referring to Kaguya prior to consuming the chakra fruit, or afterwards because this implies the period of time with Hagoromo, Hamura and Kaguya...meaning that would be post-shinjuu Kaguya...who is the exact same Kaguya we see at the end of the war...and by Hagoromo's own admission is stronger than anyone.

Boruto with the combined powers of Naruto beat Momoshiki. that isn't PIS,

Momoshiki had just momemts earlier kept up with Sasuke. Even weakened he is still miles ahead of Boruto. How is that not PIS?

Momoshiki at that point was weakened from taking the beating of his life by Naruto and Sasuke who where at 50% of their powers...

Naruto was at 50% Chakra, not overall power. Sasuke's nerf would still be near negligible at best...and Momoshiki wouldn't be weakened to the point where a below jonin tier character could even take him out. That doesn't even make sense.

PIS was Boruto's Vanishing Resengan knocking out Momoshiki, and freeing the Kages...

Sure...

but him being Killed by Boruto and Naruto's power combined wasn't PIS.

The Rasengan killing him wasn't even Boruto's it was essentially Naruto's with Boruto's chakra nature added. But that's not the problem. I have no issue with the Rasengan killing him, I take issue with Boruto winning that Rasengan clash at all. Makes no damn sense.

You must have didn't read the part where At the end of the Fight Madara's Limbo clones beat Naruto's Shadow clones.

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No objectivity? My dude, did you even read the manga once? Madara's Limbo clones beat Naruto's Shadow clones in 10 seconds. That Proves they were far superior buddy.

We saw an Even match for 10 seconds, then When we cut back to them The Limbo close as Sasuke stated had Naruto and Sasuke Surrounded with Naruto's Shadow Clones no where in sight. So your concession accepted.

He didn't do anything Because Kishimoto was Nerfing him so that Naruto and sasuke could live. in other words PIS. What stoping Madara from absorbing every Jutsu Naruto and Sasuke have since he had Both his rinnegan? Exactly. Concession accepted on that.

You basically just destroyed your older Post about you asking me why didn't Naruto just fight them in Normal Sage Mode, which this proves why. If Madara is able to block attacks from SPSM Naruto then Normal Sage mode isn't going to be useful. To your post, Naruto barely did any damage to Madara, he took that attack with 0 damage. more damage was made to the God tree than to Madara. This was before he had his Other Eye which Madara told Obito that he can only use the full power of an eye when both the original eyes are together so it wasn't like he could absorb it yet since he needed his other eye to do when. After he got that other eye, there was no hope for Naruto or sasuke of winning against an immortal being who can just absorb their jutsu. yeah, you did say they were massacring him don't back peddle now that you are caught in a lie.

Like I said it is irrelevant how much chakra you have, what matters is how much fighting experience you have and Like I said MAdara has far more than they do.

LMFAO, Obito after he was in the cave was inactive, but he still got stronger and was training was he not? MAdara was still very much active since left the cave after he gained Rinnegan and placed his eyes into Nagato who lived in the rain villain. yes he was still very active you just didn't hear about it or see him because everything was done off-screen.

threats, yes, since he stated everyone else were just pebbles to him. You are putting a bit to much stock into his words. they still couldn't defeat him. Only that they had the best chance of defeating him than anyone else.

Threats in a sense that they were the only one who could do anything to him.

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where you not trying to make that same case for Adult Naruto and Sasuke against War arc Versions? LMFAO, stop it kid and I already know that hence why Kaguya lost twice even those she was far stronger than her sons at that point in time. More chakra doesn't equal victory I already told you this in my previous post. However, More fighting experience, and more chakra does equal Victory and MAdara had more fighting experience, and more chakra. concession accepted.

Madara wasn't inferior, How was he inferior when Naruto needed help just to fight him? GG

If SPSM could barely do anything to Madara, then normal sage mode is definitely not going to be enough. Being able to Sense shadows from another Dimension is a big difference. all they could hope to do with Normal Sage mode is hurt them, they can't win with it otherwise they wouldn't have upgraded to better sage mode. Concession accepted

you need senjutsu in order to Bypass the Truth seeking orbs since it Negates all jutsu that isn't senjutsu. Urashiki said Sage Mode was dangerous to them. meaning they don't use it. it isn't that Normal Jutsu don't work on them its that Truth Seeking Orb negate all normal Jutsu, which is the only Jutsu Momoshiki, and Kinshiki uses.

Guy had help Via Kakashi Kumi Madara's Truth Seek Orbs away, other than that Guy wouldn't have been able to touch him. Even than Guy damage is beyond anything Momoshiki has done Physically.

Okay, So can madara. Like I said he was able to absorb chakra and Jutsu with his Rinnegan, I can't say Madara has Access to the jutsu, but he can absorb the Jutsu and Chakra as well.

Like I said they never fought, so you are just making assumptions. Madara while Blind was able to solo Naruto and Sasuke, and tailed beast.

you said Besides I.T? Madara has both Yin/ and Yang, he could infuse those together and turn Momoshiki into dust. BTW that is how Kaguya did her all Killing ash bones.

yes it is the case. Madara wanted to end all fighting, because he was tired of it. Like I said in character he is going to cast I.T

I was just speaking in general that Madara has the Advantage and overall more Chakra than Adult Sasuke. it goes to my point that Sasuke at 50% was stomping fused Momoshiki. So, If 50% Sasuke was able to do that then 100% Sasuke can solo Momoshiki and take him out just fine as long as he doesn't spam any jutsu. Since Madara has more chakra, and More chakra=More power he would easily solo Momoshiki especially if his only leaning on absorbing people's jutsu to save his ass. Madara would see through that, and just hand to hand him and since he has his Truth Seek Orbs any dangerous moves Madara can shield himself from like I said Madara knows I.T so if he since the battle is pointless he is going to go for the for sure Victory. Madara is not a idiot like Naruto he is the best fighter and tactician in Naruto history.

I'll ask again did you read the Manga? when the war started out there was 80k shinobi in all, Gaara was the only one to have lost nearly everyone in his unit because he was the unlucky Victim to have to face off against Madara who took out almost everyone there. everyone else didn't lose many people at all. there was at least 60K people if not more, after that it up to you to determine obito killed on the field with those shattered woodstyle But I assure you there was at least more than 10k people. 100 ninja gave enough chakra to blow away the moon in the last, I am sure there was more than 100 ninja that got absorbed by the Tree.

It wasn't just a portion, Because Kaguya had took the Chakra of at least 10K shinobi who Naruto boosted 3 x there powers. again, still far more powerful than what Kaguya had in the past with only 3 people who had chakra.

Okay, it was an exaggeration to say it was as big as the Juubi but still my point still stands that his Susanoo is far lager than Sasuke's.

Momoshiki can't see the Limbo, and yes, Sasuke Saw the Vanishing Rasengan. He was the one who explained it to Naruto what he does and what not. LMFAO, claiming Momoshiki doesn't use his Rinnegan for seeing as I just pointed out to you, he uses them for Absorbing jutsu or chakra. Occam's Razor says Momoshiki only uses the Rinnegan for Absorbing not seeing.

Sasuke Saw Limbo because his Eyes had unlocked the Rinnegan, He saw Limbo with his eyes, not with his Fucking hands like you are trying to claim for momoshiki LMFAO.

As I said Occam's Razor says Momoshiki can't see with the Rinnegan on his hands.

Sasuke saw Boruto's attack which is why he told him to use it, because he knew Momoshiki wouldn't be able to see it which he was right.

you are jumping back and forth. First, you said Chakra amount doesn't matter, then you try to use it to devalue people and make a case again. pick a side and stick with it, stop flip flopping. you can't even keep a consistent argument and you are telling people about objectivity? LMFAO. it doesn't matter if Sasuke was at 50% or less then 50% when MAdara fought them. the point is this Madara has Planet+ level chakra, and chakra reserves when he absorbed the Juubi. Sasuke doesn't doesn't matter if sasuke was at 100% back then he doesn't have planet level chakra and was no where near that level of chakra.

yes we do know, Because prior to fighting Momoshiki, there was an arc were sasuke and Naruto fought Shin Uchiha. the Arc starts off with Sasuke jumping from another Dimension, and then we clearly see Sasuke Unique Rinnegan turn into a normal Rinnegan. Also, it was stated that sasuke Traveling dimensions takes away 50-60% of his chakra. so yes he was very weakened and still smacked momoshiki around.

Like I said they both were Weakened, while Momoshiki had just got done Absorbing a good amount of Naruto's chakra, on top of that he had gained another power up from absorbing Kinishiki.

No, I am talking about Kaguya in the past. Wrong again, when she was having her sons she was weakened as she couldn't stop in coming arrows. then after she ate the Fruit Kaguya gained another power up which she split her powers with her two sons. you clearly ignored everything I just said. like I said you are being a hypocrite you said I wasn't being objective in here yet you are ignoring all my key points like nothing was ever said. I literally had to bold letters for you because I swear you act like you have hard time read or something, because you skip over points like no ones business.

Kaguya in the past was far weaker than she was in the 4th ninja war. in the past the Tailed beast from the ten tails was barely just born. so, weaker Ten tails then the current one. kaguya couldn't use Portal Creation, or Environment change Or Expansive Truth Seek Ball to nuke Dimensions.Kaguya in the Past couldn't do chakra Taxing abilities like in the 4th Ninja war. which, means she was far weaker Occam's Razor says she was far weaker in the past.

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okay, and Gokage kept up with Momoshiki.

Momoshiki was weakening to the point he couldn't even move, he literally sat their in defeat, he only got his second wind when that one guy fired Jutsu at him.

okay at least you agree on the killing Momoshiki part wasn't PIS.

okay, it more so that Momoshiki underestimated Boruto, that why he lost that Battle with Boruto in the end.

To summarize everything, Momoshiki can't beat Madara for many reasons:

1) Truth Seeking orbs Block and Negate all ninjutsu based attack.

2) Madara is a far better fighter than Momoshiki.

3) Madara is far smarter than Momoshiki.

4) Madara can absorb any Jutsu Momoshiki fire at him with his Rinnegan.

5) Momoshiki can't See Limbo

6) Momoshiki has no counter for I.T

7) Momoshiki is incapable of Senjutsu, so he can't get past the Truth Seeking Orbs to even touch Madara.

8)Madara Physically Handled people who has done far more than Momoshiki can dish out physically.

9)Madara is Immortal and can't die or be defeated unless you seal him with the seals Hagoromo gave Naruto and sasuke that they no longer have.

10) Madara has larger chakra pool and Reserves.

11) Madara has Senjutsu so he has many ways to harm Momoshiki and kill Momoshiki.

there are more but this is more than enough right here.

GG you lost.

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Azureus

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@mygod101:

You must have didn't read the part where At the end of the Fight Madara's Limbo clones beat Naruto's Shadow clones.

You must not be aware that this never happened. Your only "evidence" (lol) that the Limbo clones beat Naruto's shadow clones is due to their absence when the group exits Sasuke's Susanoo. In other words....pure conjecture as you clearly don't know what happened to the clones, just guessing.

No objectivity?

You've proven this beyond a doubt. The absence of clones on the battlefield means Madara's clones beat them? Lmfao, you are literally playing madlibs with manga scans right now.

My dude, did you even read the manga once? Madara's Limbo clones beat Naruto's Shadow clones in 10 seconds.

No they didn't. This is only your SUBJECTIVE opinion on why Naruto's Shadow Clones aren't present and don't have a single shred of proof to assert this point. Apparently the reason for the clones disappearance can't be due to:

  1. The planet-wide genjutsu that Naruto or his clones can't defend against since they lack a rinnegan.
  2. The giant meteor debris that was literally falling on their location.

But no, instead of the clones falling victim to infinite tsukuyomi or getting hit my meteor debris...none of which would affect the limbo clones and still explain the reason why the clones aren't there...make assumptions with no proof of what happened, and declare that to be case. Stop trolling.

That Proves they were far superior buddy.

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We saw an Even match for 10 seconds, then When we cut back to them The Limbo close as Sasuke stated had Naruto and Sasuke Surrounded with Naruto's Shadow Clones no where in sight. So your concession accepted.

Back your guess work with proof (that we both know doesn't exist) and we have a debate here. Until then, this is nothing but your headcanon.

He didn't do anything Because Kishimoto was Nerfing him so that Naruto and sasuke could live. in other words PIS.

Can you actually construct an argument that doesn't revolve around your headcanon and quote what you're replying to?

What stoping Madara from absorbing every Jutsu Naruto and Sasuke have since he had Both his rinnegan?

The fact he can't since not every jutsu can be absorbed.

Exactly. Concession accepted on that.

There was no response, we're not talking in real time lol.

You basically just destroyed your older Post about you asking me why didn't Naruto just fight them in Normal Sage Mode, which this proves why.

....That was the point. The posts I destroyed aren't my ideas. They're logical conclusions drawn from yours. If you say Naruto only did well against Madara solely because he had Sage Mode Chakra, why not just fight him in regular sage mode then? You obviously see how this premise makes no sense, so why argue it in the first place?

If Madara is able to block attacks from SPSM Naruto then Normal Sage mode isn't going to be useful. To your post, Naruto barely did any damage to Madara, he took that attack with 0 damage. more damage was made to the God tree than to Madara.

This makes no sense. Why? Because you've lost track of your own arguments. Why again? You aren't quoting me, and now its a jumble of arguments that address nothing.

This was before he had his Other Eye which Madara told Obito that he can only use the full power of an eye when both the original eyes are together so it wasn't like he could absorb it yet since he needed his other eye to do when.

Four questions. What are you talking about? What are you replying to? Why is it so hard to just place my previous statements in quotes, so I don't have to ask? Are you aware that Madara absorbed jutsu via Preta Path when he didn't even have a Rinnegan to begin with?

After he got that other eye, there was no hope for Naruto or sasuke of winning against an immortal being who can just absorb their jutsu.

They won against Kaguya...and seeing as Kaguya > Madara. I have to disagree there.

yeah, you did say they were massacring him don't back peddle now...

I didn't...and you even quoted it.

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So no, I never said they massacred or were massacring him. I said he ran away to avoid being massacred. I haven't lied.

that you are caught in a lie.

I didn't lie, you're just twisting my words.

Like I said it is irrelevant how much chakra you have...

I haven't disagreed lol, in fact I've been pushing this idea since this started.

what matters is how much fighting experience you have and Like I said MAdara has far more than they do.

If fighting experience was the deciding factor here then Madara would've won and Naruto wouldn't have beaten all the shinobi he has. Experience only helps, it doesn't say for sure who wins or loses.

LMFAO, Obito after he was in the cave was inactive, but he still got stronger and was training was he not? MAdara was still very much active since left the cave after he gained Rinnegan and placed his eyes into Nagato who lived in the rain villain.

Notice how I said Madara was active combat-wise...and to refute this you proceed to list off events that are not combat related. Sorry Madara doesn't have 70+ years of combat experience.

yes he was still very active you just didn't hear about it or see him because everything was done off-screen.

So basically, there's no proof he was active combat-wise?

threats, yes, since he stated everyone else were just pebbles to him.

Context: Madara said this when up against Gaara, KN1 Kakashi, 6th Gate Guy and an armless Minato....long before Naruto and Sasuke showed up with their shiny new powerups. Not to mention he ate these words when fighting 8th Gate Guy and even praised him for it. This is null and void.

You are putting a bit to much stock into his words...

The irony.

they still couldn't defeat him. Only that they had the best chance of defeating him than anyone else. Threats in a sense that they were the only one who could do anything to him.

They had just nearly sealed him a moment after he said those words, so the threat was very real.

where you not trying to make that same case for Adult Naruto and Sasuke against War arc Versions?

No, I only said the Adult versions would bully the War-arc versions. I haven't given the reasons as to why yet. Why so eager to pin something on me?

LMFAO, stop it kid and I already know that hence why Kaguya lost twice even those she was far stronger than her sons at that point in time. More chakra doesn't equal victory I already told you this in my previous post.

Ok...calm down, holy shit.

However, More fighting experience does equal Victory and MAdara had more fighting experience. concession accepted.

No, that's not true at all. More fighting experience certainly helps, but it's not equal to victory. If that were the case Orochimaru > Itachi. That's just pure nonsense.

Madara wasn't inferior, How was he inferior when Naruto needed help just to fight him? GG

Again, Madara was portrayed as inferior prior to acquiring his second rinnegan. When Naruto engaged him alone, Madara tired to escape only to be hit by an RS. Later on, the guy opted to run away from Naruto and Sasuke after nearly being sealed. This is hilarious mate.

If SPSM could barely do anything to Madara, then normal sage mode is definitely not going to be enough. Being able to Sense shadows from another Dimension is a big difference. all they could hope to do with Normal Sage mode is hurt them, they can't win with it otherwise they wouldn't have upgraded to better sage mode. Concession accepted

Are you aware that this responds to nothing I have said, or just don't care?

you need senjutsu in order to Bypass the Truth seeking orbs since it Negates all jutsu that isn't senjutsu. Urashiki said Sage Mode was dangerous to them. meaning they don't use it. it isn't that Normal Jutsu don't work on them its that Truth Seeking Orb negate all normal Jutsu, which is the only Jutsu Momoshiki, and Kinshiki uses.

Guy had help Via Kakashi Kumi Madara's Truth Seek Orbs away, other than that Guy wouldn't have been able to touch him. Even than Guy damage is beyond anything Momoshiki has done Physically.

Okay, So can madara. Like I said he was able to absorb chakra and Jutsu with his Rinnegan, I can't say Madara has Access to the jutsu, but he can absorb the Jutsu and Chakra as well.

What does this have to do with anything?

Like I said they never fought, so you are just making assumptions. Madara while Blind was able to solo Naruto and Sasuke, and tailed beast.

I'm don't know what you're talking about, you need to quote me instead of going on tangents and paragraphs about something.

you said Besides I.T? Madara has both Yin/ and Yang, he could infuse those together and turn Momoshiki into dust.

Momoshiki has Yin-Yang release as well...so?

BTW that is how Kaguya did her all Killing ash bones.

That's Kaguya's Kekkei Mora.

yes it is the case. Madara wanted to end all fighting, because he was tired of it. Like I said in character he is going to cast I.T

He's bloodlusted here...not in character.

I was just speaking in general that Madara has the Advantage and overall more Chakra than Adult Sasuke.

What do you mean advantage? The Sasuke that fought Momo would pound Madara.

it goes to my point that Sasuke at 50% was stomping fused Momoshiki. So, If 50% Sasuke was able to do that then 100% Sasuke can solo Momoshiki and take him out just fine as long as he doesn't spam any jutsu.

None of what's here is even true. Sasuke wasn't at 50%, and Sasuke wasn't stomping Momoshiki. Hell in every version of this fight, when Naruto and Sasuke weren't helping each other they were losing.

Since Madara has more chakra, and More chakra=More power he would easily solo Momoshiki...

Does this not contradict a previous point you made lol?

Madara would see through that, and just hand to hand him...

He loses horribly then because Momoshiki is stronger and faster than Madara.

and since he has his Truth Seek Orbs any dangerous moves Madara can shield himself...

Fair enough.

from like I said Madara knows I.T so if he since the battle is pointless he is going to go for the for sure Victory.

Oh, IT wouldn't affect Momoshiki either...but ok.

Madara is not a idiot like Naruto he is the best fighter and tactician in Naruto history.

Debatable.

I'll ask again did you read the Manga? when the war started out there was 80k shinobi in all, Gaara was the only one to have lost nearly everyone in his unit because he was the unlucky Victim to have to face off against Madara who took out almost everyone there.

Cool, your point?

everyone else didn't lose many people at all. there was at least 60K people if not more, after that it up to you to determine obito killed on the field with those shattered woodstyle But I assure you there was at least more than 10k people. 100 ninja gave enough chakra to blow away the moon in the last, I am sure there was more than 100 ninja that got absorbed by the Tree.

This isn't saying much, do you have proof that this is the case?

It wasn't just a portion,

It was. You still have the bijuu and chakra of animals and humans on the planet, which is what it took to bring Kaguya back.

Momoshiki can't see the Limbo,

False, he has the Rinnegan, so he can.

and yes, Sasuke Saw the Vanishing Rasengan. He was the one who explained it to Naruto what he does and what not.

And this proves he saw the Rasengan how? This only requires that he sees the change in chakra nature, not the invisible jutsu itself. Do you or do you not have proof he can?

LMFAO, claiming Momoshiki doesn't use his Rinnegan for seeing as I just pointed out to you...

The idea one doesn't use eyes for seeing is absurd, and you still ignored me when I pointed out he has a Rinnegan on his forehead.

he uses them for Absorbing jutsu or chakra. Occam's Razor says Momoshiki only uses the Rinnegan for Absorbing not seeing.

It already goes without saying that EYES see. So stop with this silly premise.

Sasuke Saw Limbo because his Eyes had unlocked the Rinnegan, He saw Limbo with his eyes, not with his Fucking hands like you are trying to claim for momoshiki LMFAO.

Momoshiki has eyes on his palms. So he's not seeing with his hands, but the eyes on his hands instead. But even ignoring this, Momoshiki has a third Rinnegan on his forehead. Are you going to tell me it's just there for decoration?

As I said Occam's Razor says Momoshiki can't see with the Rinnegan on his hands.

The idea that eyes can't see is not a smart one. What suggests that his eyes can't see?

Sasuke saw Boruto's attack which is why he told him to use it, because he knew Momoshiki wouldn't be able to see it which he was right.

More conjecture, the idea remains the same even if Sasuke couldn't see it lol.

you are jumping back and forth.

If you are not going to quote me context is needed for me to know what you're taling about.

First, you said Chakra amount doesn't matter, then you try to use it to devalue people and make a case again.

I'd be able to make sense of this if I knew what it was you're getting at. Explain with context. But where did do this?

pick a side and stick with it, stop flip flopping. you can't even keep a consistent argument and you are telling people about objectivity?

Q U O T E M E.

LMFAO. it doesn't matter if Sasuke was at 50% or less then 50% when MAdara fought them.

But you also said this:

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So I'm clearly not the one contradicting themselves...you are. You implied 50% Sasuke was weaker than 100% Sasuke, and outright said more chakra = more power, but now you seem to be asserting that's irrelevant now. Meanwhile the only thing I said here was that Sasuke wasn't at 50%...whatever that means.

the point is this Madara has Planet+ level chakra, and chakra reserves when he absorbed the Juubi. Sasuke doesn't doesn't matter if sasuke was at 100% back then he doesn't have planet level chakra and was no where near that level of chakra.

If you were talking about size exclusively...you would be right.

yes we do know, Because prior to fighting Momoshiki, there was an arc were sasuke and Naruto fought Shin Uchiha. the Arc starts off with Sasuke jumping from another Dimension, and then we clearly see Sasuke Unique Rinnegan turn into a normal Rinnegan.

Is that it, this itself isn't enough to suggest anything as we don't know how many trips Sasuke's made here.

Also, it was stated that sasuke Traveling dimensions takes away 50-60% of his chakra. So yes he was very weakened and still smacked momoshiki around.

Kindly provide the source.

No, I am talking about Kaguya in the past.

That's not anymore specific.

Wrong again...

How am I wrong, when asking a clarification question lol?

when she was having her sons she was weakened as she couldn't stop in coming arrows.

Now I know which version of Kaguya you're talking about.

you clearly ignored everything I just said.

because it's wrong.

like I said you are being a hypocrite you said I wasn't being objective in here yet you are ignoring all my key points like nothing was ever said. I literally had to bold letters for you because I swear you act like you have hard time read or something, because you skip over points like no ones business.

Skip over what points? I always reply to everything you say...piece by piece. However, I can only do so much, as you are the one who ends up skipping over my responses as you don't quote them, and end up missing bit of information I reply to.

Kaguya in the past was far weaker than she was in the 4th ninja war.

Which Kaguya? If pre-chakra chakra fruit, then yes. If post-chakra fruit...they're literally the same.

in the past the Tailed beast from the ten tails was barely just born. so, weaker Ten tails then the current one.

What the fuck? The tailed beasts we created from the remains of the juubi...which was stronger than the one we see in the war because it had all its chakra lol...the young tailed beasts were sentient creatures created after that...

kaguya couldn't use Portal Creation, or Environment change Or Expansive Truth Seek Ball to nuke Dimensions.Kaguya in the Past couldn't do chakra Taxing abilities like in the 4th Ninja war. which, means she was far weaker Occam's Razor says she was far weaker in the past.

Context, which version of Kaguya, since they're two of them in the past.

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@azureus said:

@ourmanuel:

Momoshiki hasn’t even shown anything on the level of juubito...
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Yep, you heard me.

The only thing he has over juubito is durability, seeing as even normal sage rasengans could hurt juubito.

Asides from that, there’s nothing else I can remember from him that was above what juubito’s shown.

He kept up with Naruto and Sasuke and did trade blows with them...so his speed and strength are already far greater considering that War-Arc versions of the duo were above one eyed Rinnegan Madara, who's was above Juubito.

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@azureus said:

@mygod101:

You must have didn't read the part where At the end of the Fight Madara's Limbo clones beat Naruto's Shadow clones.

You must not be aware that this never happened. Your only "evidence" (lol) that the Limbo clones beat Naruto's shadow clones is due to their absence when the group exits Sasuke's Susanoo. In other words....pure conjecture as you clearly don't know what happened to the clones, just guessing.

No objectivity?

You've proven this beyond a doubt. The absence of clones on the battlefield means Madara's clones beat them? Lmfao, you are literally playing madlibs with manga scans right now.

My dude, did you even read the manga once? Madara's Limbo clones beat Naruto's Shadow clones in 10 seconds.

No they didn't. This is only your SUBJECTIVE opinion on why Naruto's Shadow Clones aren't present and don't have a single shred of proof to assert this point. Apparently the reason for the clones disappearance can't be due to:

  1. The planet-wide genjutsu that Naruto or his clones can't defend against since they lack a rinnegan.
  2. The giant meteor debris that was literally falling on their location.

But no, instead of the clones falling victim to infinite tsukuyomi or getting hit my meteor debris...none of which would affect the limbo clones and still explain the reason why the clones aren't there...make assumptions with no proof of what happened, and declare that to be case. Stop trolling.

That Proves they were far superior buddy.

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We saw an Even match for 10 seconds, then When we cut back to them The Limbo close as Sasuke stated had Naruto and Sasuke Surrounded with Naruto's Shadow Clones no where in sight. So your concession accepted.

Back your guess work with proof (that we both know doesn't exist) and we have a debate here. Until then, this is nothing but your headcanon.

He didn't do anything Because Kishimoto was Nerfing him so that Naruto and sasuke could live. in other words PIS.

Can you actually construct an argument that doesn't revolve around your headcanon and quote what you're replying to?

What stoping Madara from absorbing every Jutsu Naruto and Sasuke have since he had Both his rinnegan?

The fact he can't since not every jutsu can be absorbed.

Exactly. Concession accepted on that.

There was no response, we're not talking in real time lol.

You basically just destroyed your older Post about you asking me why didn't Naruto just fight them in Normal Sage Mode, which this proves why.

....That was the point. The posts I destroyed aren't my ideas. They're logical conclusions drawn from yours. If you say Naruto only did well against Madara solely because he had Sage Mode Chakra, why not just fight him in regular sage mode then? You obviously see how this premise makes no sense, so why argue it in the first place?

If Madara is able to block attacks from SPSM Naruto then Normal Sage mode isn't going to be useful. To your post, Naruto barely did any damage to Madara, he took that attack with 0 damage. more damage was made to the God tree than to Madara.

This makes no sense. Why? Because you've lost track of your own arguments. Why again? You aren't quoting me, and now its a jumble of arguments that address nothing.

This was before he had his Other Eye which Madara told Obito that he can only use the full power of an eye when both the original eyes are together so it wasn't like he could absorb it yet since he needed his other eye to do when.

Four questions. What are you talking about? What are you replying to? Why is it so hard to just place my previous statements in quotes, so I don't have to ask? Are you aware that Madara absorbed jutsu via Preta Path when he didn't even have a Rinnegan to begin with?

After he got that other eye, there was no hope for Naruto or sasuke of winning against an immortal being who can just absorb their jutsu.

They won against Kaguya...and seeing as Kaguya > Madara. I have to disagree there.

yeah, you did say they were massacring him don't back peddle now...

I didn't...and you even quoted it.

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So no, I never said they massacred or were massacring him. I said he ran away to avoid being massacred. I haven't lied.

that you are caught in a lie.

I didn't lie, you're just twisting my words.

Like I said it is irrelevant how much chakra you have...

I haven't disagreed lol, in fact I've been pushing this idea since this started.

what matters is how much fighting experience you have and Like I said MAdara has far more than they do.

If fighting experience was the deciding factor here then Madara would've won and Naruto wouldn't have beaten all the shinobi he has. Experience only helps, it doesn't say for sure who wins or loses.

LMFAO, Obito after he was in the cave was inactive, but he still got stronger and was training was he not? MAdara was still very much active since left the cave after he gained Rinnegan and placed his eyes into Nagato who lived in the rain villain.

Notice how I said Madara was active combat-wise...and to refute this you proceed to list off events that are not combat related. Sorry Madara doesn't have 70+ years of combat experience.

yes he was still very active you just didn't hear about it or see him because everything was done off-screen.

So basically, there's no proof he was active combat-wise?

threats, yes, since he stated everyone else were just pebbles to him.

Context: Madara said this when up against Gaara, KN1 Kakashi, 6th Gate Guy and an armless Minato....long before Naruto and Sasuke showed up with their shiny new powerups. Not to mention he ate these words when fighting 8th Gate Guy and even praised him for it. This is null and void.

You are putting a bit to much stock into his words...

The irony.

they still couldn't defeat him. Only that they had the best chance of defeating him than anyone else. Threats in a sense that they were the only one who could do anything to him.

They had just nearly sealed him a moment after he said those words, so the threat was very real.

where you not trying to make that same case for Adult Naruto and Sasuke against War arc Versions?

No, I only said the Adult versions would bully the War-arc versions. I haven't given the reasons as to why yet. Why so eager to pin something on me?

LMFAO, stop it kid and I already know that hence why Kaguya lost twice even those she was far stronger than her sons at that point in time. More chakra doesn't equal victory I already told you this in my previous post.

Ok...calm down, holy shit.

However, More fighting experience does equal Victory and MAdara had more fighting experience. concession accepted.

No, that's not true at all. More fighting experience certainly helps, but it's not equal to victory. If that were the case Orochimaru > Itachi. That's just pure nonsense.

Madara wasn't inferior, How was he inferior when Naruto needed help just to fight him? GG

Again, Madara was portrayed as inferior prior to acquiring his second rinnegan. When Naruto engaged him alone, Madara tired to escape only to be hit by an RS. Later on, the guy opted to run away from Naruto and Sasuke after nearly being sealed. This is hilarious mate.

If SPSM could barely do anything to Madara, then normal sage mode is definitely not going to be enough. Being able to Sense shadows from another Dimension is a big difference. all they could hope to do with Normal Sage mode is hurt them, they can't win with it otherwise they wouldn't have upgraded to better sage mode. Concession accepted

Are you aware that this responds to nothing I have said, or just don't care?

you need senjutsu in order to Bypass the Truth seeking orbs since it Negates all jutsu that isn't senjutsu. Urashiki said Sage Mode was dangerous to them. meaning they don't use it. it isn't that Normal Jutsu don't work on them its that Truth Seeking Orb negate all normal Jutsu, which is the only Jutsu Momoshiki, and Kinshiki uses.

Guy had help Via Kakashi Kumi Madara's Truth Seek Orbs away, other than that Guy wouldn't have been able to touch him. Even than Guy damage is beyond anything Momoshiki has done Physically.

Okay, So can madara. Like I said he was able to absorb chakra and Jutsu with his Rinnegan, I can't say Madara has Access to the jutsu, but he can absorb the Jutsu and Chakra as well.

What does this have to do with anything?

Like I said they never fought, so you are just making assumptions. Madara while Blind was able to solo Naruto and Sasuke, and tailed beast.

I'm don't know what you're talking about, you need to quote me instead of going on tangents and paragraphs about something.

you said Besides I.T? Madara has both Yin/ and Yang, he could infuse those together and turn Momoshiki into dust.

Momoshiki has Yin-Yang release as well...so?

BTW that is how Kaguya did her all Killing ash bones.

That's Kaguya's Kekkei Mora.

yes it is the case. Madara wanted to end all fighting, because he was tired of it. Like I said in character he is going to cast I.T

He's bloodlusted here...not in character.

I was just speaking in general that Madara has the Advantage and overall more Chakra than Adult Sasuke.

What do you mean advantage? The Sasuke that fought Momo would pound Madara.

it goes to my point that Sasuke at 50% was stomping fused Momoshiki. So, If 50% Sasuke was able to do that then 100% Sasuke can solo Momoshiki and take him out just fine as long as he doesn't spam any jutsu.

None of what's here is even true. Sasuke wasn't at 50%, and Sasuke wasn't stomping Momoshiki. Hell in every version of this fight, when Naruto and Sasuke weren't helping each other they were losing.

Since Madara has more chakra, and More chakra=More power he would easily solo Momoshiki...

Does this not contradict a previous point you made lol?

Madara would see through that, and just hand to hand him...

He loses horribly then because Momoshiki is stronger and faster than Madara.

and since he has his Truth Seek Orbs any dangerous moves Madara can shield himself...

Fair enough.

from like I said Madara knows I.T so if he since the battle is pointless he is going to go for the for sure Victory.

Oh, IT wouldn't affect Momoshiki either...but ok.

Madara is not a idiot like Naruto he is the best fighter and tactician in Naruto history.

Debatable.

I'll ask again did you read the Manga? when the war started out there was 80k shinobi in all, Gaara was the only one to have lost nearly everyone in his unit because he was the unlucky Victim to have to face off against Madara who took out almost everyone there.

Cool, your point?

everyone else didn't lose many people at all. there was at least 60K people if not more, after that it up to you to determine obito killed on the field with those shattered woodstyle But I assure you there was at least more than 10k people. 100 ninja gave enough chakra to blow away the moon in the last, I am sure there was more than 100 ninja that got absorbed by the Tree.

This isn't saying much, do you have proof that this is the case?

It wasn't just a portion,

It was. You still have the bijuu and chakra of animals and humans on the planet, which is what it took to bring Kaguya back.

Momoshiki can't see the Limbo,

False, he has the Rinnegan, so he can.

and yes, Sasuke Saw the Vanishing Rasengan. He was the one who explained it to Naruto what he does and what not.

And this proves he saw the Rasengan how? This only requires that he sees the change in chakra nature, not the invisible jutsu itself. Do you or do you not have proof he can?

LMFAO, claiming Momoshiki doesn't use his Rinnegan for seeing as I just pointed out to you...

The idea one doesn't use eyes for seeing is absurd, and you still ignored me when I pointed out he has a Rinnegan on his forehead.

he uses them for Absorbing jutsu or chakra. Occam's Razor says Momoshiki only uses the Rinnegan for Absorbing not seeing.

It already goes without saying that EYES see. So stop with this silly premise.

Sasuke Saw Limbo because his Eyes had unlocked the Rinnegan, He saw Limbo with his eyes, not with his Fucking hands like you are trying to claim for momoshiki LMFAO.

Momoshiki has eyes on his palms. So he's not seeing with his hands, but the eyes on his hands instead. But even ignoring this, Momoshiki has a third Rinnegan on his forehead. Are you going to tell me it's just there for decoration?

As I said Occam's Razor says Momoshiki can't see with the Rinnegan on his hands.

The idea that eyes can't see is not a smart one. What suggests that his eyes can't see?

Sasuke saw Boruto's attack which is why he told him to use it, because he knew Momoshiki wouldn't be able to see it which he was right.

More conjecture, the idea remains the same even if Sasuke couldn't see it lol.

you are jumping back and forth.

If you are not going to quote me context is needed for me to know what you're taling about.

First, you said Chakra amount doesn't matter, then you try to use it to devalue people and make a case again.

I'd be able to make sense of this if I knew what it was you're getting at. Explain with context. But where did do this?

pick a side and stick with it, stop flip flopping. you can't even keep a consistent argument and you are telling people about objectivity?

Q U O T E M E.

LMFAO. it doesn't matter if Sasuke was at 50% or less then 50% when MAdara fought them.

But you also said this:

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So I'm clearly not the one contradicting themselves...you are. You implied 50% Sasuke was weaker than 100% Sasuke, and outright said more chakra = more power, but now you seem to be asserting that's irrelevant now. Meanwhile the only thing I said here was that Sasuke wasn't at 50%...whatever that means.

the point is this Madara has Planet+ level chakra, and chakra reserves when he absorbed the Juubi. Sasuke doesn't doesn't matter if sasuke was at 100% back then he doesn't have planet level chakra and was no where near that level of chakra.

If you were talking about size exclusively...you would be right.

yes we do know, Because prior to fighting Momoshiki, there was an arc were sasuke and Naruto fought Shin Uchiha. the Arc starts off with Sasuke jumping from another Dimension, and then we clearly see Sasuke Unique Rinnegan turn into a normal Rinnegan.

Is that it, this itself isn't enough to suggest anything as we don't know how many trips Sasuke's made here.

Also, it was stated that sasuke Traveling dimensions takes away 50-60% of his chakra. So yes he was very weakened and still smacked momoshiki around.

Kindly provide the source.

No, I am talking about Kaguya in the past.

That's not anymore specific.

Wrong again...

How am I wrong, when asking a clarification question lol?

when she was having her sons she was weakened as she couldn't stop in coming arrows.

Now I know which version of Kaguya you're talking about.

you clearly ignored everything I just said.

because it's wrong.

like I said you are being a hypocrite you said I wasn't being objective in here yet you are ignoring all my key points like nothing was ever said. I literally had to bold letters for you because I swear you act like you have hard time read or something, because you skip over points like no ones business.

Skip over what points? I always reply to everything you say...piece by piece. However, I can only do so much, as you are the one who ends up skipping over my responses as you don't quote them, and end up missing bit of information I reply to.

Kaguya in the past was far weaker than she was in the 4th ninja war.

Which Kaguya? If pre-chakra chakra fruit, then yes. If post-chakra fruit...they're literally the same.

in the past the Tailed beast from the ten tails was barely just born. so, weaker Ten tails then the current one.

What the fuck? The tailed beasts we created from the remains of the juubi...which was stronger than the one we see in the war because it had all its chakra lol...the young tailed beasts were sentient creatures created after that...

kaguya couldn't use Portal Creation, or Environment change Or Expansive Truth Seek Ball to nuke Dimensions.Kaguya in the Past couldn't do chakra Taxing abilities like in the 4th Ninja war. which, means she was far weaker Occam's Razor says she was far weaker in the past.

Context, which version of Kaguya, since they're two of them in the past.

So I have to clap you again in here okay.

You must not be aware that this never happened. Your only "evidence" (lol) that the Limbo clones beat Naruto's shadow clones is due to their absence when the group exits Sasuke's Susanoo. In other words....pure conjecture as you clearly don't know what happened to the clones, just guessing.

You are the one doing pure Conjecture saying they were even due to a 10 second fight. You claimed that they were even with nothing more than a short scrap; Do you have anything more concrete to back up this claim? Evidence via statements from the Author or statements from Sasuke?

Back your guess work with proof (that we both know doesn't exist) and we have a debate here. Until then, this is nothing but your headcanon.

what you are doing here. You have no statements or evidence to back up your claim, only a short fight that lasted 10 seconds and then headcanon. If all fights in fiction was determined based on 10 seconds, headcanon, and no evidence then everyone would seem even then. that why we use evidence and statements since they are key to determining where people rank at. Since you have nothing of this, you have no case.

Can you actually construct an argument that doesn't revolve around your headcanon and quote what you're replying to?

Yeah, Because Kishimoto stating that Madara has no Weakness, and that he didn't know how to defeat him is headcanon…

Now, If you are going to tell me you know more than Kishimoto about his own characters and verse than, you are the one using headcanon. Occam's Razor.

The fact he can't since not every jutsu can be absorbed

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^ To bad no one agrees with that headcanon you made up. prior to this, Madara absorbed Jutus from Sage Mode Naruto as well. Look at that showed him absorbing Jutsu from Sage mode Naruto, Showed Madara absorbing Sand from Gaara, then he out right said Rinnegan can absorb All Jutsu.

All that Debunks your claim.

....That was the point. The posts I destroyed aren't my ideas. They're logical conclusions drawn from yours. If you say Naruto only did well against Madara solely because he had Sage Mode Chakra, why not just fight him in regular sage mode then? You obviously see how this premise makes no sense, so why argue it in the first place?

wrong, he was able to damage six path Obito with Normal Sage mode. Like I said MAdara isn't Obito, as you say Six path Sage Mode wasn't even enough to damage Madara. Naruto was using Kurama Mode Six path Sage mode.

This makes no sense. Why? Because you've lost track of your own arguments. Why again? You aren't quoting me, and now its a jumble of arguments that address nothing.

so, All you have to do is use your common sense, it isn't that hard to figure out what was being said by just reading the context of the post LMFAO.

Four questions. What are you talking about? What are you replying to? Why is it so hard to just place my previous statements in quotes, so I don't have to ask? Are you aware that Madara absorbed jutsu via Preta Path when he didn't even have a Rinnegan to begin with?

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LMFAO, how many time have I Owned you when you made that claim? I showed you Madara Absorbing Sage Chakra and Sage Jutsu, I showed you Madara Absorbing Regular Ninjutsu, I showed you MAdara absorbing Gaara's Sand. ROFL Concession accepted dude Madara can absorb all Jutsu like it was stated he can. Naruto even Disagrees with you.

They won against Kaguya...and seeing as Kaguya > Madara. I have to disagree there.

No one disagreed with this. Madara is in the same Tier as Kaguya, but clearly she is more powerful.

So no, I never said they massacred or were massacring him. I said he ran away to avoid being massacred. I haven't lied.

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You implied he would have gotten Massacred if he didn't Run. I replying saying to you that he wasn't getting massacred since they only had a short Fight when he then decided to go get his other Rinnegan. The fact that Both of them where fighting him at the same time implies and shows that he was far superior to them. So Again Occam's Razor unless you can prove that Naruto or Sasuke didn't need the others help to beat Madara the fact remains that Naruto said it himself that both him and sasuke was going to defeat him not Naruto Solo or Sasuke Solo.

I haven't disagreed lol, in fact I've been pushing this idea since this started.

Like Is said, I have pushing this ever since the start of Boruto where people were braging saying Adult Naruto solos Part 2 now after properly looking at Boruto I can effectively said that Madara would wreck Either Naruto or Sasuke at 100%.

If fighting experience was the deciding factor here then Madara would've won and Naruto wouldn't have beaten all the shinobi he has. Experience only helps, it doesn't say for sure who wins or loses.

Madara did win, His goal was to Activate I.T which he did. which then Kishimoto took him out to further the plot by PIS.

Notice how I said Madara was active combat-wise...and to refute this you proceed to list off events that are not combat related. Sorry Madara doesn't have 70+ years of combat experience.

notice how I said Madara still has like far more combat experience than both Naruto and Sasuke combined? yet you still try to hold on to this fantasy that Naruto or Sasuke can beat Madara when:

1) they no longer have the seals that Hagaromo gave them to deal with Madara. Like I said he would own them with I.T or Limbo. Since he has far more knowledge then they do, and can just absorb there Chakra and Jutsu.

2) below God tier people are giving them a hard time.

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on top of that Momoshiki needing help against Post Prime Killer B it doesn't matter how you look at it the fact of the matter is Momoshiki had interference to get Killer B, and struggling against Kages.

So basically, there's no proof he was active combat-wise?

that is irrelevant when my point is Madara has more knowledge then they do, as well as far more combat experience. so concession accepted.

Context: Madara said this when up against Gaara, KN1 Kakashi, 6th Gate Guy and an armless Minato....long before Naruto and Sasuke showed up with their shiny new powerups. Not to mention he ate these words when fighting 8th Gate Guy and even praised him for it. This is null and void.

My did you need your eyes Checked badly, needed help just to even touch Madara you ask for evidence here it is:

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Gai needed help from Five other Ninja, two of them where Kages, Kakashi was appointed Kage right after the War. No to mention that a portion of Madara's Power was taken by Obito prior to this fight anyways.

On top of that, Madara did nothing except defend. He didn't even use a single Jutsu in that fight. If Madara wanted to end Gai he could have easily done so with 1 Limbo clone. GG

The irony.

Okay.

They had just nearly sealed him a moment after he said those words, so the threat was very real.

The fact that all they needed to do was seal him, and they still couldn't do that and Kishimoto stated he had no way of defeating Madara speaks volumes. It doesn't matter the fact remains they didn't seal him and couldn't defeat him.

No, I only said the Adult versions would bully the War-arc versions. I haven't given the reasons as to why yet. Why so eager to pin something on me?

whatever help you sleep at night kid, we both know what you were going to say and what you meant.

No, that's not true at all. More fighting experience certainly helps, but it's not equal to victory. If that were the case Orochimaru > Itachi. That's just pure nonsense.

Excuse me, but was Orochimaru more powerful than Itachi?

Again, Madara was portrayed as inferior prior to acquiring his second rinnegan. When Naruto engaged him alone, Madara tired to escape only to be hit by an RS. Later on, the guy opted to run away from Naruto and Sasuke after nearly being sealed. This is hilarious mate.

He wasn't inferior, because Naruto needed Help to fight him. Occam's Razor. Not as Hilarious as Adult Naruto and Sasuke getting stomped By shin Uchiha who isn't even close to god tier. let not Forget Delta who was stomping Naruto as well. Inb4 FTL eye Beams Delta.

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Hold on a second, Momoshiki was running from Darui, and was on the ropes until Kinishiki came along. ROFL this never get's old.

What does this have to do with anything?

You seriously have no common sense. as I said You need Senjutsu to by Pass those Truth Seeking orbs, without it Madara can just negate every Jutsu Attack Momoshiki makes. as you saw he can use them as a shield for defence as well so Momoshiki will not even be able to touch him.

I'm don't know what you're talking about, you need to quote me instead of going on tangents and paragraphs about something.

use Common sense, you said Momoshiki was better fighter than Madara, I responded by saying that is assumption since they never fought.

Momoshiki has Yin-Yang release as well...so?

well that sure as hell didn't help him when people went to hand to hand him.

That's Kaguya's Kekkei Mora.

already know that, What I am saying is he can turn Momoshiki to Dust by Infusing Yin/yang together with those robs.

He's bloodlusted here...not in character.

still hit him with I.T since that is his goal.

What do you mean advantage? The Sasuke that fought Momo would pound Madara.

No, Madara has far more chakra, can negate all sasuke attack, and has 4 unkillable limbo clones he can just keep making new ones. also, he sure had a hard time with Shin. for the record, Both Naruto and Sasuke are dead now, by people who are not even god tier.

None of what's here is even true. Sasuke wasn't at 50%, and Sasuke wasn't stomping Momoshiki. Hell in every version of this fight, when Naruto and Sasuke weren't helping each other they were losing.

Sure he was, and Momoshiki didn't get smacked by Susanoo fused Kurama with one move LMFAO.

He loses horribly then because Momoshiki is stronger and faster than Madara.

Momoshiki was going so fast the KAges where even able to block a few of his moves and counter him.

LMFAO, If the Kages could follow his movements, I sure Madara would see past everything Momoshiki does. On top of that Momoshiki using Chakra pills to do all this. Don't pretend like Momoshiki didn't just grab like a hand full of Chakra pills. since he doesn't have that in this fight he is for sure getting stomped by MAdara who has planet+level chakra, and Chakra reserves from the Juubi, Senjutsu (which is extremely harmful to Anyone in Momoshiki's clan), Hagarormo's Chakra, Plus Kaguya's Chakra from the God tree that absorbed at least 10k Shinobi that had there powers amp folds. Madara is defiantly coming out on top.

Oh, IT wouldn't affect Momoshiki either...but ok.

proof?

This isn't saying much, do you have proof that this is the case?

this was stated in the movie Naruto Last.

It was. You still have the bijuu and chakra of animals and humans on the planet, which is what it took to bring Kaguya back.

Either way it goes buddy it doesn't matter, the portion of power Obito took from Madara, he gave to Kakashi and it was enough for him to Fuck up Kaguya.

Portion of Kagauya power>>>>that power Obito gave to Kakashi that hurt Kagauya.

False, he has the Rinnegan, so he can.

the point is there are to many things pointing against That claim buddy, Momoshiki couldn't see Boruto's Vanishing Rasengan when Sasuke could.

Then Sasuke stated verbatim: that Momoshiki can't absorb what he can't see. so Occam's Razor says use the most simplest of competing theories be preferred to the more complex or that explanations of unknown phenomena be sought first in terms of known quantities.

The Simplest Answer is Momoshiki couldn't see it.

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This dialogue corresponds directly to Momoshiki not being able to see it. So again, Occam's Razor says he can't see it

And this proves he saw the Rasengan how? This only requires that he sees the change in chakra nature, not the invisible jutsu itself. Do you or do you not have proof he can?

LMFAO, the fact that Rinnegan can see invisible Jutsu, makes your comment irrelevant and Null in void. Moreover, Sasuke was able to see Momoshiki's Ghost when he stopped time as well for that brief second.

The idea one doesn't use eyes for seeing is absurd, and you still ignored me when I pointed out he has a Rinnegan on his forehead.

LMFAO. The fact that you out right stated that Momoshiki can't see invisible Jutsu already debunks your post, that he could see Limbo. Limbo is invisible and from another Dimension. so, Momoshiki couldn't even see an invisible jutsu so he sure as hell isn't seeing one from another dimension. GG.

It already goes without saying that EYES see. So stop with this silly premise.

YOU ALREADY DESTROYED YOUR CLAIM WHEN YOU SAID MOMISHIKI CAN"T SEE INVISIBLE JUTSU. Limbo is an invisible Jutsu from another Dimension. common sense tells use he won't be able to see Limbo.

Momoshiki has eyes on his palms. So he's not seeing with his hands, but the eyes on his hands instead. But even ignoring this, Momoshiki has a third Rinnegan on his forehead. Are you going to tell me it's just there for decoration?

already went over this with you buddy, If Momoshiki as you claim can't see Invisible Jutsu, then he can't see Limbo Occam's Razor on that.

More conjecture, the idea remains the same even if Sasuke couldn't see it lol.

You can't even give a proper refute. Sasuke Did see the invisible attack as I already proven that more over, he was able to see Momoshiki's Ghost when he died and stop time as well. So Ghost, and Being invisible go hand and hand. Occam's Razor buddy.

I'd be able to make sense of this if I knew what it was you're getting at. Explain with context. But where did do this?

OR maybe you should start reading what you type before posting it. I took one glaze at what you wrote, and then instantly figured out what it was meant for. In your previous post, you said Naruto and Sasuke was at least than 50% against Madara, basically trying to hang on to the notion that Naruto and sasuke was exhausted from fighting the war before fighting Madara. I am telling you how much chakra they had is irrelevant because they don't have Planet+ level of chakra or chakra reserves. Madara with the Juubi has Planet+ level of Chakra.

So I'm clearly not the one contradicting themselves...you are. You implied 50% Sasuke was weaker than 100% Sasuke, and outright said more chakra = more power, but now you seem to be asserting that's irrelevant now. Meanwhile the only thing I said here was that Sasuke wasn't at 50%...whatever that means.

again, this was stated prior to the Gaiden Novels, Unless you want to explain how Rinnegan Sasuke was getting owned by Shin Uchiha who sakura was able to one punch afterwards? the only thing that would make sense without making to much assumptions is that Sasuke lost enormous amount of chakra since his Rinnegan changed from 6 Tome to normal basic Rinnegan this was prior to him Teleporting from another Dimension. Now, If teleporting himself takes enormous amount of chakra then logically teleporting 7 other people is going to take a lot more powerful since he himself stated his "power is limited to being able to handle this much".

Skip over what points? I always reply to everything you say...piece by piece. However, I can only do so much, as you are the one who ends up skipping over my responses as you don't quote them, and end up missing bit of information I reply to.

I skip over your irrelevant post because most of them I already answer in one post.

Which Kaguya? If pre-chakra chakra fruit, then yes. If post-chakra fruit...they're literally the same.

Kaguya Like I said She was incapable of using Chakra Taxing abilities. in her fight with her sons he didn't couldn't Change the environment like she was casually doing against Naruto and sasuke. She Couldn't create portals like she was casually doing against Naruto and Sasuke. she couldn't use Expansive Truth Seeking ball to destroy dimensions like she did in her Rabbit form which is massively more powerful than Kaguya in the past.

What the fuck? The tailed beasts we created from the remains of the juubi...which was stronger than the one we see in the war because it had all its chakra lol...the young tailed beasts were sentient creatures created after that...

Implying that Tail beast can't get stronger? Hagaromo stated he was going to help them control their powers and to love people. it doesn't matter if they are sentient creatures prove to me that they can't get stronger. show me a quote that states that their powers stay the same no matter what.

Context, which version of Kaguya, since they're two of them in the past.

...I am talking about all version before the 4th ninja war Kaguya kid, my god use your common sense.

You don't have any proof that Kaguya at any point in the past was equal what she was during the 4th ninja war. Just saying she is because she is the same person is not a argument because then I could say SM Madara=Madara in the past.

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WhatamIseeing

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Any logical reason Madara cannot create a juubi sized perfect susanoo and one shot

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deactivated-5cdf8e3e9b353

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Any logical reason Madara cannot create a juubi sized perfect susanoo and one shot

That as Well, Is another reason Why I say Madara can smack him.

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Rabii99

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I don't think anyone debating for Momo in this thread has given us an idea on how Momoshiki can bypass limbo or how he'll deal with Madara's immortality.