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#1 Edited by Dawn_of_Ages (2527 posts) - - Show Bio
No Caption Provided

  • Vitiate during the events of Revan
  • No prep or foreknowledge
  • Standard abilities/equipment for each
  • The battle takes place on Dromund Kaas

Bonus round: SF Malak replaces Sion

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#3 Edited by KeenCraft (825 posts) - - Show Bio

Probably Vitiate. I don't see why two out of three don't get oneshotted immediately, then shite-ilus gets blitzed

(Blitz is a little harsh but anyways) Take out Sion and add Malak and he carries Nihilus

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#5 Posted by deactivated-5c4df01082e4b (340 posts) - - Show Bio

Nihiloser and friends die.

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#6 Posted by In-sidiousvader (2535 posts) - - Show Bio

@dawn_of_ages:

Nihilus eats planets and held together his ship with the force, he solos ;)

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#7 Posted by Kurk (325 posts) - - Show Bio

Prob Valk assuming he doesn't fall onto any lightsabers

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#8 Edited by ArkhamAsylum3 (3871 posts) - - Show Bio

Vitiate stomps.

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#9 Posted by Necromancer76 (3776 posts) - - Show Bio

Vitiate, considering how Revan from the novel was a better version of Revan who could defeat both Traya and the Exile.

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#10 Posted by darthbane77 (2113 posts) - - Show Bio

Vitiate, easily.

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#11 Edited by Richard96 (5740 posts) - - Show Bio

The lord of losers and his crew die badly.

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#12 Edited by xolthol (976 posts) - - Show Bio

Vitiate by the scaling of Revan by Meetra herself.

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#13 Posted by Slayedigneel (1920 posts) - - Show Bio

Vitiate.

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#14 Posted by ArkhamAsylum3 (3871 posts) - - Show Bio

@dawn_of_ages:

Nihilus eats planets and held together his ship with the force, he solos ;)

I hope you're trolling.

Vitiate>Revan>>>>>>>>>>Nyriss>The Exile>>>>>>>>>>Any member of the Sith Triumvirate.

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#16 Posted by dark-sith123 (5027 posts) - - Show Bio

Lord of hunger gets eaten.

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#17 Posted by SithRevenant (1165 posts) - - Show Bio

So many misinformed comments. But I'll ignore that. Tenebrae as of Revan's assassination attempt has a millennia of 'unfathomable' power growth beyond the Nathema Ritual, which already made him more powerful than Darth Nihilus.

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#18 Posted by KeenCraft (825 posts) - - Show Bio

@sithrevenant: How are some of us misinformed? I know you're one of the OR experts but Vitiate should slaughter the trio, should he not?

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#19 Posted by SithRevenant (1165 posts) - - Show Bio

@keencraft: Well, there's your claim that Malak could carry Nihilus when Nihilus' feats blow Malak's out of the water before he even starts eating planets.

There's Necromancer using Chris Avellone's perspective on characters in unison with Revan facing Vitiate. Avellone's opinions literally only apply to things in KotOR II:TSL. His version of Darth Revan was the ultimate combative and intellectual powerhouse who is way more powerful than we actually see him depicted in Drew Karpyshyn's novel of the same name.

Then there's Arkham's atrocious line of scaling that has nothing right going for it.

But yes, Tenebrae would win as of Nathema Ritual completion. Nevermind one a millennia stronger.

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#20 Posted by Dawn_of_Ages (2527 posts) - - Show Bio

Revan who could defeat both Traya and the Exile.

Not that I doubt Revan's superiority over the duo but I'm getting the impression that there's some canonical accolade stating this?

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#21 Posted by Slayedigneel (1920 posts) - - Show Bio

@dawn_of_ages:

It's straight from the creator of Kreia/Meetra's mouth.

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#22 Edited by Dawn_of_Ages (2527 posts) - - Show Bio
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#23 Edited by KeenCraft (825 posts) - - Show Bio

@sithrevenant: BS, Nihilus' feats 'Don't' blow Malak out of the water. Not before he began eating planets and not after. Malak literally has about two or three viable feats as a Darth they're hilariously beyond Nihilus'.

Everyone also has this ridiculous belief that base Malak is somehow far outclassed by SF Malak when there is nothing indicating such. In fact, the Star Forge feeds upon Malak to empower itself. It is more akin to a Force wound (like Nihilus) than a veritable dark side nexus.

Malak's power was far beyond Revan's league entirely on Leviathan as he so clearly demonstrated by simultaneously ragdolling both Bastila and Revan. Then, Malak curbs him yet again to to show it isn't some one off. Malak then captures Bastila and she occupies his attention until Revan finishes his Star Map escapade. So there isn't much/any power growth for Malak whatsoever. Base Malak = SF Malak

This Revan on leviathan is an equal to his reign as a Darth. There is nothing to suggest that Revan's power dwindled and all evidence suggests otherwise.

All Kotor:

"Your mind was too badly damaged to ever fully restore your memories, Revan. But your power, your strength of will, the essence of who and what you are: these things still remain"

-Bastila

"The will of a Sith Lord is not so easily manipulated"

-Leviathan Malak to Revan

And through raw will, Malak decimated Revan and Bastila.

"Yes... that would explain why the droids failed. Revan always was strong in the Force."

-Malak

Both characters have firsthand knowledge of Revan's direct power as both Darth and Jedi. Malak is arrogant, and yet he still notes that Revan was "always" strong, not "too weak" now that he is no longer the Dark Lord.

So Malak completely outclasses 'Darth' Revan. Darth Revan was stronger than Nihilus ever was as I'm sure you know:

It was easy to understand how Scourge could be drawn to him; Revan's command of the Force was greater then that of anyone else she had ever met.

-The Exile; Star Wars The Old Republic: Revan

Hell, Malak is far superior to Exar Kun, someone superior to the Ancients. The same ancients that Traya happens to hold in much higher regard than her OWN remnant Sith Empire. The Empire that included pre fed Nihilus, of course.

Her words only diminish Nihilus' and Surik's skill further in comparison to Malak and Revan. Her words + other evidence ironically add up to the gauge come the 'Revan' novel, which has Surik struggling against a foe that Revan oneshots. Prove that Malak wouldn't oneshot Nyriss with nearly the same level of ease given the above mentioned scale as well as having enough parity with Redeemed Revan by the end of the game to give him a "fierce" duel which left him "recovering". Something neither Nyriss or Nihilus would be capable of.

So yeah, Shite-ilus gets carried by Malak against Vitiate.

I'd even go so far as saying it isn't a good fight either, considering Nihilus' most proficient ability is drain life/Force drain. The same abilities that Malak has proven to be able to nosell and dominate through sheer will.

"There is no one left with the power to control the Forge , though many have tried. I have watched them be devoured, their life drained from them as they attempt to tap into its power. Knowing what we do of the Builders and their fate, I am convinced that Revan did not intend us to keep the Star Forge. To use it would mean the end of the Sith... and the end of the Force."

- Knights of the Old Republic II

He dominates a semi sentient superfactory that draws power from the corona of a 'Star'. Show me Nihilus EVER generating that kind of energy anywhere and only then will I find it reasonable to assume that Nihilus can be mentioned in a conversation with Malak.

In terms of feats. That far surpasses Nihilus.

It's hilarious that people write off, or gloss over the Star Forge without using common sense and logic, in terms of joules being generated. And then "he ate a planet!" Is supposed to be seen as superior simply because it was beaten into everyone's heads.

As for Arkham's scaling I agree that it is gross.

Vitiate > Revan >= Malak >> Nihilus ~ Nyriss >> The Exile ~ Traya >>>> Sion

Is more accurate tbh

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#25 Posted by KeenCraft (825 posts) - - Show Bio

@slayedigneel: @dawn_of_ages:

You're referring to the "Revan's greater command blah blah" that I quoted above no? If so, then yes, Revan should beat Traya and Surik together. Given that even Nihilus is superior to Traya and the Exile. Coupled with the fact that Traya lowers her own Empire through her words about the Ancients, Its almost an apparent fact. Though Idk if its ever been explicitly stated

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#26 Posted by Dawn_of_Ages (2527 posts) - - Show Bio

@keencraft: Thank you for the great insight, Sarth Didious

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#27 Posted by Dawn_of_Ages (2527 posts) - - Show Bio

Malak is far superior to Exar Kun

oh no

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#28 Posted by KeenCraft (825 posts) - - Show Bio
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#29 Posted by SithRevenant (1165 posts) - - Show Bio

@keencraft: Terrible formatting on your part so don't expect this to be a blow-by-blow reply.

1.The Star Forge feeds Malak's power growth, that's the point of stopping him now and not later. Base Malak is most certainly not as strong as he is in the center of a space station that is one massive dark side artifact. You literally provided a quote from Bastila stating that it amps your power.

2.Meetra Surik referring to raw power when she says that, completely and utterly contradicts her view on Nihilus' power. The last time she'd ever seen Revan was prior to the battle of Malachor V. If she thinks that as of the novel he is the most powerful Force-user she'd ever met. Then why the hell is she in utter disbelief when Kreia and Visas Marr describe Darth Nihilus' power? She doesn't even believe it possible that anyone could be powerful enough to destroy the surface of a planet. Then she actually meets him, whilst he's in a starving state. The script states that she realises he is far more powerful than she had been led to believe. Mando Wars Revan is not far more powerful than Darth Nihilus. Kek.

3.If you can prove that the Darth Malak quote actually means he's far more powerful than Exar Kun then go right ahead. The context of that quote doesn't even refer to the Force. It ponders if Malak's mask hides some form of life support,some kind of mysterious source granting him 'far greater powers' than even Exar Kun. That 'cybernetic enhancement' providing 'life support' is the only indication of what these 'powers' consist of, certainly doesn't point to raw Force power. Nor am I inclined to give some massive benefit of the doubt to your interpretation when that implies Darth Malak is far more powerful than the likes of JA Luke Skywalker and Dark Side Kyp Durron.

4.The Star Forge is powered by a star, and powered by draining Force energy. That doesn't mean that Malak has some form of relativity with a freaking sun.

5.Darth Nihilus pulled an entire fleet of ships out of the mass shadow generated gravity wells that were too powerful for the engines of said ships of said fleet to escape from. The power cores of the average Republic ship of the era pack enough energy for 'planet-shattering' explosions. The largest ship Nihilus pulls out is his flagship the Ravager, a Centurion-class Battlecruiser, which is roughly several times larger than said Republic ships. This indicates that Darth Nihilus' telekinetic power is greater than the gravity said mass shadows could exert which was strong enough to cancel out the power those cores could expel. Easily superior to anything Malak has. Prior to any planet-devouring too.

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#30 Edited by KeenCraft (825 posts) - - Show Bio

@sithrevenant: Blame the phone I'm using and my data. Had the entire post get deleted and I had to rewrite it. Normally, my formatting is excellent. I apologize.

1. "The Star Forge feeds Malak's power growth..."

Yes. And I just gave you the exact reason why he would have little to no power growth. Did you miss that I said he was preoccupied with Bastila along with having to immediately utilize the Star Forge for fleet deployment after he finishes. The residual energies of the Forge aren't going to give him some massive power growth from what little time he was on it.

2. "Meetra Surik is referring to raw power when she says that...."

Not to be rude but, no shit. If Revan's raw power is greater than Nihilus's, Revan is greater than Nihilus. Not sure what you're trying to prove by stating that. Yes, the last time she saw Revan was Malachor 5. That's the REASON that even MW Revan > Nihilus.

She is in utter disbelief? Okay??? What does that prove? 1. She doesn't wield either of their power so obviously she cannot fathom the idea when hearing about it. And 2 she never witnessed Revan drain the surface of a planet, so I don't see what you're arguing here.

"Far more powerful than she had been led to believe." That's great. Except she's stating that MW Revan is superior AFTER she came into direct contact with Nihilus and felt the raw energy that would be generated by the power of drain attack (failed or otherwise. It's impossible not to feel the radiating power that can dEsTrOy pLanEts). Regardless of what she was initially led to believe.

4. The Star Forge is powered by a star...."

Well thank you for that insight, oh wise one πŸ™ƒ. It feeds on and contains the energy of a 'star' to produce ships as well as the dark side to feed on said star. These same energies Malak must will to harness it. What exactly is your point here? Does the Forge have a button that says "use to succ star" that any dock worker can push? No. It's explicitly stated that it cannot be manipulated without the will of a powerful Force user. Tell me what the energy is doing if Malak isn't there to manipulate it.

It's doing zilch. You really didn't disprove anything there.

5. Nihilus pulled an entire fleet of ships...."

Yes, pulling the Centurion is his greatest feat.

But can you show me the quote that says "simultaneously" after it though? Because otherwise you're giving me something I already know. If he can pull the Centurion, which is the capital ship, then he can very clearly pull the lesser ships afterwards.

"Easily superior to anything Malak has"

Dominating Bastila, and then ragdolling Revan (who you only gave a shoddy answer about his "raw" power being greater, which literally makes him greater) simultaneously with TK mid combat >> Pulling the Centurion from the gravity well with as much time as he needed to draw upon his reserves.

Outwilling the Star Forge >>>>> still Nihilus

Giving Redeemed Revan a "fierce" duel which left him "recovering" >>> getting beat by Visas Marr and Meetra Surik

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#32 Edited by KeenCraft (825 posts) - - Show Bio

@sithrevenant:

Because I missed 3. And I currently can't edit bigger texts properly:

3. "If you can prove Darth Malak's quote means he's more powerful than Exar Kun go right ahead..."

Well let's try to read it together 😁

"The context of the quote doesn't even refer to the Force"

Did it provide him with >>POWERS<< far greater than even Exar Kun or Freedon Nadd, or was cybernetic enhancement too simple an explanation?

Lol

Not much to prove. His vocal mask and cybernetic life support aren't going to provide you with powers far greater than Exar Kun and Freedon Nadd, and he was bathing with his link to the Forge, so yeah, it is too simple an explanation.

But irregardless of the "explanation" it doesn't preclude the fact that is has "POWERS far greater than Freedon Nadd and Exar Kun" πŸ˜‰

And he still had to utlilize his own power to will the Forge.

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#33 Posted by SithRevenant (1165 posts) - - Show Bio

@keencraft:

1.You're not getting it. Malak on the Star Forge is more powerful than he is on the Leviathan. He literally says Revan cannot beat him there. This shows us that Malak himself admits that the Star Forge makes it nigh-impossible for Revan to win.

2.She specifically is referring to his 'command of the Force' which indicates mastery of it. She would have no reason at all to be in disbelief of Nihilus' power if she thinks Mandalorian Wars Revan is more powerful. But, did you just seriously debunk your own argument by saying she isn't a reliable source to measure amd compare their power?

3.No, the context doesn't say what 'powers' is referring to explicitly. It doesn't mention the Force at all here. The only relevant context given in reference to these 'powers' is that the source may have been a cybernetically enhanced life support system. This indicates that these 'powers' are relevant to his longevity or durability.

4.Malak's willpower overwhelms its ability to drain him like it drains other Force-users. The energy it derives from the star is used to produce ships and droids.

5.You realise he has to use his power to maintain the Ravager's structural integrity this entire time? He'd also have to prevent any ships from being pulled back in. There is no skirting around this.

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#34 Posted by SithRevenant (1165 posts) - - Show Bio

@keencraft:

1.You're not getting it. Malak on the Star Forge is more powerful than he is on the Leviathan. He literally says Revan cannot beat him there. This shows us that Malak himself admits that the Star Forge makes it nigh-impossible for Revan to win.

2.She specifically is referring to his 'command of the Force' which indicates mastery of it. She would have no reason at all to be in disbelief of Nihilus' power if she thinks Mandalorian Wars Revan is more powerful. But, did you just seriously debunk your own argument by saying she isn't a reliable source to measure amd compare their power?

3.No, the context doesn't say what 'powers' is referring to explicitly. It doesn't mention the Force at all here. The only relevant context given in reference to these 'powers' is that the source may have been a cybernetically enhanced life support system. This indicates that these 'powers' are relevant to his longevity or durability.

4.Malak's willpower overwhelms its ability to drain him like it drains other Force-users. The energy it derives from the star is used to produce ships and droids.

5.You realise he has to use his power to maintain the Ravager's structural integrity this entire time? He'd also have to prevent any ships from being pulled back in. There is no skirting around this.

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#35 Edited by KeenCraft (825 posts) - - Show Bio

@sithrevenant:

1. "You're not getting it..."

No, I'm not getting it. You haven't provided a substantial reason as to why anyone should get it either.

"He literally says Revan cannot beat him there."

"You cannot beat me, Revan, not here on the Star Forge, not *When I can draw upon the power of all these Jedi*"

-Malak

Finished the quote. Yeah, he clearly overestimated the amount of power he could draw from featless fodder reserves. I guess you could make a case for Malak being mentally challenged though πŸ˜‚.

2. "She specifically is referring to his command of the Force which indicates mastery of it"

Now you're backtracking. Does it refer to his raw power? Or does it refer to his mastery? πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚. Maybe you should just accept that Revan is better than Nihilus instead of trying to play on silly prolixities and discursiveness to make canon appear dubious. How the hell would she know or "feel" exactly what kind of mastery he had in the Mandalorian Wars when he was learning in secret?

And how exactly is "command" of the Force referring to mastery anyway? The greater your command from the receptacles of midichlorians, the greater your power and connection to the Force will be. I could argue the exact opposite and we get nowhere, or you can take the words for their actual intention.

3. No, the context doesn't refer to what "powers" is referring to explicitly..."

More prolixities and workarounds πŸ˜‚. Yeah, because Malak grew to a ripe old age and lived a long life. No. It's not referring to his longevity you thilly goose. And even so, he would still have to will himself to live longer or through sustained damage so... yee, greater raw Force strength

Just because a quote adds an "s" to the end of powers, doesn't mean change the fact that it is referring to the Force and his connection. We know Exar Kun had arguably the most impressive "MASTERY" too, and Malak wasn't an erudite, therefore, Malak is more powerful.

4. "Malak's willpower overwhelms its ability to drain him...."

I know that. Gratz, he bypassed it, and now through his will, he must bend it to harness the energy and create fleets. Still not changing anything. It doesn't function without Malak.

5. Only from a quote from Tobin afaik. While that isn't even close to a good source (non force user) the ship didn't lose structural integrity even after he died.

Also, tell me why he would have to prevent any other ships from being pulled back in when he could move them elsewhere. The feat is given no context to suggest it was simultaneous afaik.

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#36 Posted by Necromancer76 (3776 posts) - - Show Bio

@dawn_of_ages: Yeah here are some statements:

"If the Exile could defeat Kreia, Revan would have an easier time of it. ;) United with the Exile, Kreia and the Exile vs. Revan? My money’s still on Revan, since in my mind, Revan was a master strategist as well as an extremely powerful Force wielder."

Source: Chris Avellone, lead writer of Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic 2 - The Sith Lords

"Revan could beat Kreia, no doubt about it - the student far surpassed the master."

Source: Chris Avellone, lead writer of Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic 2 - The Sith Lords

"Who is the superior lightsaber combatant: Revan or the Jedi Exile?"

"So my opinion is that Revan could kick the Exile’s ass unless the Exile pulled some strange Force deafening move, but even that wouldn’t keep Revan down for long."

Source: Interviewer and Chris Avellone, lead writer of Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic 2 - The Sith Lords
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#37 Posted by Thatoneguy887 (1098 posts) - - Show Bio

Yeah....Nihilus either solos or stalemates. What took vitiate a ritual and planning to do (suck the life from a planet) Nihilus did with a thought.

Triumvirate ftw.

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#38 Edited by KeenCraft (825 posts) - - Show Bio

@thatoneguy887 said:

Yeah....Nihilus either solos or stalemates. What took vitiate a ritual and planning to do (suck the life from a planet) Nihilus did with a thought.

Triumvirate ftw.

Not sure if serious, but Nihilus didn't do it with a thought. It was said to be his voice, which is also akin to a ritual, same as Tenebrae. And Nihilus cannot instantly drain the reserves of an individual that is several leagues more powerful than him. If they trade, Nihilus dies first. But that won't even happen because if he leaves himself open for attack by trying to drain Vitiate, then Vitiate will merely oneshot him with a more combat applicable power.

There is absolutely no way that ends in a stalemate lmfao

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#39 Posted by SithRevenant (1165 posts) - - Show Bio

@keencraft:

1.Holy Christ, you realise you just took the bait?

You've literally just proven my point by providing the full context. The Star Forge makes Malak more powerful than he is otherwise, such as on the Leviathan.

2.What? I haven't backtracked at all. And you just literally contradicted the reliability of your own source to make a basis for your claim. You already conceded the moment you took her ability to measure power under scrutiny.

3.You can wax poetic all you like, you have utterly failed to prove it means anything of the sort. Provide an actual argument based on the actual source or concede. By the way, what you provided for point 1 only supports the fact that the Star Forge provided him the ability to rejuvenate and gain life energy. Because that is what Malak does with those Jedi.

4.You're trying to wank Malak based on him having the strength of will to control the Star Forge, instead of allowing it to drain him. But you've entirely failed to provide any evidence for this equating star level energy. Kek.

5.There are a whole host of quotes for Nihilus having held the vessel together with sheer willpower. You can't make an erroneous attempt to debunk this on the basis that it didn't fall apart when he was destroyed given that the ship wasn't moving thus there would be no inertia to pull the ship apart anyway.

Nihilus pulled an entire fleet out of thw gravity wells of Malacjor V, whether he did this simultaneously or not is irrelevant when the total Force reserve output required is the same.

It's a far better feat than Malak has ever shown. If you have nothing better to bring forth then I have no wish to continue the discussion further.

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#40 Edited by KeenCraft (825 posts) - - Show Bio

@sithrevenant said:

It's a far better feat than Malak has ever shown. If you have nothing better to bring forth then I have no wish to continue the discussion further.

@sithrevenant said:

1.Holy Christ, you realise you just took the bait?

You've literally just proven my point by providing the full context. The Star Forge makes Malak more powerful than he is otherwise, such as on the Leviathan

By literally giving the context for why he says "you cannot beat me here"? Not when I can draw upon the power of all these Jedi. Wot? Where the hell did you deduce that from my post? Your argument is that he is more powerful "when he is ON" the Forge. Mine has been that he gets more powerful when actively drawing upon a repository, but he hasn't spent enough time on the Forge since he was preoccupied with Bastila. So therefore as I said, "he experienced little to no growth". I literally said these things in my first posts.

Maybe I somehow didn't explain myself well enough yesterday. Or maybe you misinterpreted the admittedly lazy general st: Base Malak = SF Malak as me claiming those Jedi won't permanently increase his power (even though I never said that)

@sithrevenant said:

2.What? I haven't backtracked at all. And you just literally contradicted the reliability of your own source to make a basis for your claim. You already conceded the moment you took her ability to measure power under scrutiny

Really? Lmao

@sithrevenant said:

2.Meetra Surik referring to raw power when she says that, completely and utterly contradicts her view on Nihilus' power. The last time she'd ever seen Revan was prior to the battle of Malachor V. If she thinks that as of the novel he is the most powerful Force-user she'd ever met.

@sithrevenant said:

2.She specifically is referring to his 'command of the Force' which indicates mastery of it. She would have no reason at all to be in disbelief of Nihilus' power if she thinks Mandalorian Wars Revan is more powerful. But, did you just seriously debunk your own argument by saying she isn't a reliable source to measure amd compare their power?

Kek, okay. No backtracking there πŸ‘

Also, to that newly added edit (or perhaps something I missed because I was tired): Tell me 'exactly' where I said she is an unreliable source, when I said she is the MOST reliable source:

@keencraftsaid:

Not to be rude but, no shit. If Revan's raw power is greater than Nihilus's, Revan is greater than Nihilus.

She is in utter disbelief? Okay??? What does that prove? 1. She doesn't wield either of their power so obviously she cannot fathom the idea when hearing about it. And 2 she never witnessed Revan drain the surface of a planet, so I don't see what you're arguing here.

"Far more powerful than she had been led to believe." That's great. Except she's stating that MW Revan is superior AFTER she came into direct contact with Nihilus and felt the raw energy that would be generated by the power of drain attack (failed or otherwise. It's impossible not to feel the radiating power that can dEsTrOy pLanEts). Regardless of what she was initially led to believe.

experiencing the direct proximity of their Force Auras as well as two DIRECT attacks from Nihilus FIRSTHAND. Once again, it's literally impossible for her not to feel the power. What TF are you talking about? LOL

But, did you just seriously debunk your own argument by saying she isn't a reliable source to measure amd compare their power? - bullshit from sithrevenant

Just so you don't have trouble understanding this: She is an unreliable gauge FOR NIHILUS when SPEAKING about Nihilus BEFORE meeting Nihilus. She becomes a reliable gauge once she MEETS NIHILUS. And an unquestionable gauge when she experiences his attack.

She has MET REVAN. She is a reliable gauge FOR REVAN. And she is able to measure their power once she has MET BOTH. Moment = Meeting Nihilus on the Ravager. The book takes place AFTER meeting BOTH.

Her scoffing at Nihilus PRIOR to meeting Nihilus, is not an accurate gauge of anything and it is meaningless. Why?? Because she HASN'T MET NIHILUS and therefore cannot draw comparisons to anyone else.

Is that clear enough for you?

@sithrevenant said:

3.You can wax poetic all you like, you have utterly failed to prove it means anything of the sort. Provide an actual argument based on the actual source or concede. By the way, what you provided for point 1 only supports the fact that the Star Forge provided him the ability to rejuvenate and gain life energy. Because that is what Malak does with those Jedi.

Lol, concede to what exactly? That he has powers far greater than Freedon Nadd or Exar Kun? The power he gains when actively drawing energy in the same way "Malak does with those Jedi"? That's my fookin point m8. He is stronger than Exar Kun because he is actively drawing upon repositories from the Forge; permanently boosting his powers, giving him POWERS FAR GREATER than Kun.

Cause:

Because he is using "It" (the SF)

Effect:

"It provide[s] him with powers far greater than .. Exar Kun"

By the way, what you provided for point 1 only supports the fact that the Star Forge provided him the ability to rejuvenate and gain life energy. Because that is what Malak does with those Jedi.

That was kinda the point.

@sithrevenant said:

4.You're trying to wank Malak ...

No, I'm not wanking Malak lmfao, I'm giving his feat, and just as an FYI, I hate Nihilus, the "Lord of Losers". Doesn't mean I lowballed his power though. Don't care about Malak, but he's cool ig.

@sithrevenant said:

... based on him having the strength of will to control the Star Forge, instead of allowing it to drain him.

Your neurons aren't properly connected if you think his strength of will kept him from being drained by the Star Forge, and now it magically does his bidding like a bottle genie.

THE STAR FORGE DOESN'T FUNCTION WITHOUT MALAK.

How difficult is that for you to understand? The Forge uses the dark side to empower it. It then contains the energy of the star, to which Malak must stifle the power that it holds. I never said "Malak held relativity with a freaking sun". Those were your approximate words iirc, but never mine. I said he generates the power to sustain a transfer of energy between a portion of the 'corona' of a star and the Forge to produce ships. The Forge is the repository of said energy, but its not going to remain subservient without control

Why does he not lose control of the Forge when it contains the energy of a corona up to 300% of it's expected capacity?

Who bends the Forge and maintains the transfer of energy through his will: Malak

What is the reservoir for the corona of the star: the Forge

Can Malak hold the energy of a star?

No

Can Malak generate enough charge to bend the Star Forge to his will and sustain the transfer the energy to produce an armada?

Well, obviously, or there wouldn't be a "Knights of the Old Republic" would there?

If he held 'relativity' with a sun, he would beat DE Sidious and GM Luke at the same time.

@sithrevenant said:

5.There are a whole host of quotes for Nihilus having held the vessel together with sheer willpower. You can't make an erroneous attempt to debunk this on the basis that it didn't fall apart when he was destroyed given that the ship wasn't moving thus there would be no inertia to pull the ship apart anyway.

Is that why I look up a video and literally the first video I find shows the Ravager matching the speed/marginally outspeeding the Interdictor on a course to Telos? Lol. Idgaf about quotes that outright contradict material.

https://youtu.be/cC_IlVPvotk

The interdictor to the far right is moving closer to Telos. The interdictor in the middle, along with The Ravager were matching its speed. And some of the Ravager's debris is even floating partially forward despite the force of the explosion.

Kek

@sithrevenant said:

Nihilus pulled an entire fleet out of thw gravity wells of Malacjor V, whether he did this simultaneously or not is irrelevant when the total Force reserve output required is the same.

LOL, no it doesn't. Absolutely no time frame is given. If Sidious could only ragdoll Savage, then place him off to the side, take a break, get some tea, come back and ragdoll Maul; it isn't the fookin same as ragdolling them simultaneously.

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@sithrevenant said:

It's a far better feat than Malak has ever shown. If you have nothing better to bring forth then I have no wish to continue the discussion further.

I did notice an error in that I was once again, too general (underlined) with my statement. I apologize if the vagueness brought confusion but my point hasn't changed. πŸ‘‡πŸ‘‡πŸ‘‡

Using his will to charge the Star Forge (using HIS power) to suck the corona of the star, outperforming insofar as 200% of its supposed capacity.

But as for what you said above? Still this:

@keencraftsaid:

Dominating Bastila, and then ragdolling Revan [...] simultaneously with TK mid combat >> Pulling the Centurion from the gravity well with as much time as he needed to draw upon his reserves.

Outwilling the Star Forge >>>>> still Nihilus

Giving Redeemed Revan a "fierce" duel which left him "recovering" >>> getting beat by Visas Marr and Meetra Surik

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#41 Posted by Dawn_of_Ages (2527 posts) - - Show Bio

@necromancer76: Yeah, but if we take author statements seriously then I guess Revan>Vader=Bane=Revan>Nihilus or Kun>Sidious?

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#42 Posted by Dawn_of_Ages (2527 posts) - - Show Bio
@thatoneguy887 said:

Yeah....Nihilus either solos or stalemates. What took vitiate a ritual and planning to do (suck the life from a planet) Nihilus did with a thought.

Triumvirate ftw.

Not sure if serious, but Nihilus didn't do it with a thought. It was said to be his voice, which is also akin to a ritual, same as Tenebrae. And Nihilus cannot instantly drain the reserves of an individual that is several leagues more powerful than him. If they trade, Nihilus dies first. But that won't even happen because if he leaves himself open for attack by trying to drain Vitiate, then Vitiate will merely oneshot him with a more combat applicable power.

There is absolutely no way that ends in a stalemate lmfao

That and the ritual was used to grant Shitiate Vitiate immortality, not merely consume all life on the planet.

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#43 Posted by Necromancer76 (3776 posts) - - Show Bio
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#44 Posted by Thatoneguy887 (1098 posts) - - Show Bio

@dawn_of_ages: huh....so one needs a ritual to achieve immortality, but needs to be resurrected later on....and gets killed regardless....the other, because of the effects of the mass shadow generators, immediately begins feeding on whatever force source is in the area as a passive subconscious reaction, sometimes not even that, just happens. Yeah, I'm sticking with Nihilus. He just needs his voice, the other needs prep. Done deal.

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#45 Edited by KeenCraft (825 posts) - - Show Bio

@dawn_of_ages: Do you mind showing me those?

I never believed any of these were the actual authors (not that their word even matters too much. I only care about an author if it's their work and its corroborating/expanding upon something already established) Anyone can make these up but here it is:

No Caption Provided

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#46 Posted by ArkhamAsylum3 (3871 posts) - - Show Bio

@keencraft: Well, there's your claim that Malak could carry Nihilus when Nihilus' feats blow Malak's out of the water before he even starts eating planets.

There's Necromancer using Chris Avellone's perspective on characters in unison with Revan facing Vitiate. Avellone's opinions literally only apply to things in KotOR II:TSL. His version of Darth Revan was the ultimate combative and intellectual powerhouse who is way more powerful than we actually see him depicted in Drew Karpyshyn's novel of the same name.

Then there's Arkham's atrocious line of scaling that has nothing right going for it.

But yes, Tenebrae would win as of Nathema Ritual completion. Nevermind one a millennia stronger.

Care to actually tag me when you respond. Or are you too much of a coward? Please tell me what about my line of scaling is so atrocious.

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#47 Edited by KeenCraft (825 posts) - - Show Bio

@thatoneguy887 said:

@dawn_of_ages: huh....so one needs a ritual to achieve immortality, but needs to be resurrected later on....and gets killed regardless....the other, because of the effects of the mass shadow generators, immediately begins feeding on whatever force source is in the area as a passive subconscious reaction, sometimes not even that, just happens. Yeah, I'm sticking with Nihilus. He just needs his voice, the other needs prep. Done deal.

While it was never confirmed that Nihilus needed a ritual, it was never confirmed that he didn't. No power 'ever' has been described as needing a voice besides a ritual. How do you explain this, if Nihilus doesn't use rituals?

"The attack on Onderon... something was attempting to use the planet itself, to feed on it, to draw on the power there. You prevented it, but it was a stalling measure. The next time will be critical."

- Knights of the Old Republic II

What was going on at the exact same time, albeit under the guise of "beast control" in the Sith tomb?

"The ritual must not be interrupted. I don't need to mention the price of failure"

-Sith Officer; Knights of the Old Republic II

"Break the ritual now"

-Sith Lord; Knights of the Old Republic II

Whether he uses the ritual for that purposes or not is not wholly confirmed. But what is confirmed is that he can't drain planets on command, and completely failed on Onderon. And it just so happens that a ritual was occurring at the exact same time, and failed as well.

He also had to land on Telos, otherwise he would have did it from his ship.

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#48 Posted by KeenCraft (825 posts) - - Show Bio

@arkhamasylum3: admittedly I agreed it was a bit gross putting such a far gap, but overall our scales appeared quite similar after I took a second look

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#49 Posted by ArkhamAsylum3 (3871 posts) - - Show Bio

Yeah....Nihilus either solos or stalemates. What took vitiate a ritual and planning to do (suck the life from a planet) Nihilus did with a thought.

Let's ignore the fact that Vitiate was massively pre-prime.

Triumvirate ftw.

Considering Kreia was beaten on a DS Nexus by The Exile who's laughably far below Vitiate and Sion has been killed by average Jedi the only real threat here is Nihlus but his feats simply aren't on the same level as Vitiate's. Two of the 3 members of the trio get one shotted and Nihlus falls soon after.

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#50 Posted by ArkhamAsylum3 (3871 posts) - - Show Bio

@arkhamasylum3: admittedly I agreed it was a bit gross putting such a far gap, but overall our scales appeared quite similar after I took a second look

I wasn't talking to you. I was talking to Shitrevenant. It was the one who called my scaling atrocious.

You're fine and perfectly reasonable.