Silver Surfer
vs
Team: Captain Marvel, Wally West, Wonder Woman
Rules
- Classic Surfer
- Pre-52 Team
- Everyone bloodlusted
- No knowledge, no prep, no BFR
- Win by death
- Battle on Earth
Can the team win this?
Silver Surfer
vs
Team: Captain Marvel, Wally West, Wonder Woman
Rules
Can the team win this?
No way does wally beat norrin but Trio is too much unless norrin unleashes a wave of cosmic energy that destroys the planet which he could do.
First off, I don't understand the posters who are saying Wally can take down the Silver Surfer. Wally can't fly. Chances are this is a fight that won't ever hit the ground. Unless WWoman or Cap Marvel knocks him off his board, Wally won't get anywhere near SSurfer. I think this fight boils down to how powerful you think Surfer's Energy manipulation and transmutation powers are? Wonder Woman's got her Lasso of truth, it's Team DC's best chance of incapacitating Surfer. If he can transmutate the lasso, he stands a good chance of winning this fight. Also, if he can manipulate Cap Marvel's energy with his powers and turn him back to Billy or manipulate the speed force itself, he's definitely going to win. In fact, since Norrin is bloodlusted and won't be holding back, there's nothing stopping him from transmuting his enemies into energy and using it against whoever is left. I'm going to go with Surfer 7/10 times.
First off, I don't understand the posters who are saying Wally can take down the Silver Surfer. Wally can't fly. Chances are this is a fight that won't ever hit the ground. Unless WWoman or Cap Marvel knocks him off his board, Wally won't get anywhere near SSurfer. I think this fight boils down to how powerful you think Surfer's Energy manipulation and transmutation powers are? Wonder Woman's got her Lasso of truth, it's Team DC's best chance of incapacitating Surfer. If he can transmutate the lasso, he stands a good chance of winning this fight. Also, if he can manipulate Cap Marvel's energy with his powers and turn him back to Billy or manipulate the speed force itself, he's definitely going to win. In fact, since Norrin is bloodlusted and won't be holding back, there's nothing stopping him from transmuting his enemies into energy and using it against whoever is left. I'm going to go with Surfer 7/10 times.
Thats some horrible logic. Wally can't fly but he'd still beat Superman or other people who can fly. He doesn't need to fly beat his opponent. Billy and Diana are useless here because they can't keep up with Norrin's speed and TP and energy projection and matter manipulation even when bloodlusted. Wally stands more of a chance because bloodlusted hes much faster than the Surfer and cannot be affected by TP due to how his mind works.
First off, I don't understand the posters who are saying Wally can take down the Silver Surfer. Wally can't fly. Chances are this is a fight that won't ever hit the ground. Unless WWoman or Cap Marvel knocks him off his board, Wally won't get anywhere near SSurfer. I think this fight boils down to how powerful you think Surfer's Energy manipulation and transmutation powers are? Wonder Woman's got her Lasso of truth, it's Team DC's best chance of incapacitating Surfer. If he can transmutate the lasso, he stands a good chance of winning this fight. Also, if he can manipulate Cap Marvel's energy with his powers and turn him back to Billy or manipulate the speed force itself, he's definitely going to win. In fact, since Norrin is bloodlusted and won't be holding back, there's nothing stopping him from transmuting his enemies into energy and using it against whoever is left. I'm going to go with Surfer 7/10 times.
Thats some horrible logic. Wally can't fly but he'd still beat Superman or other people who can fly. He doesn't need to fly beat his opponent. Billy and Diana are useless here because they can't keep up with Norrin's speed and TP and energy projection and matter manipulation even when bloodlusted. Wally stands more of a chance because bloodlusted hes much faster than the Surfer and cannot be affected by TP due to how his mind works.
I don't understand how my logic is horrible. You mostly agree with me, that Billy and Diana are useless against Surfer because of his powers. Already we agree 66.66% If you're of the opinion that Billy and Diana can't knock surfer off his board because he's too fast for them, then how is Wally going to strike at the Surfer. Isn't it just a matter of time before Norrin finds a way to effect the speed force, mess with gravity, or transmute the ground Wally's running on?
Interesting battle. I'll go with team DC after a good fight. If SS's bloodlusted, might go a different way.
@cramandman: I'm talking about Wally not being able to do anything to Norrin because he can fly.
. Isn't it just a matter of time before Norrin finds a way to effect the speed force, mess with gravity, or transmute the ground Wally's running on?'
Surfer affecting the speed force? Lmao. Also Wally isn't gonna just stand there while Surfer attacks him.
@cramandman: The team is too much for him.
How does Surfer mess with the Speed Force? Are there any showings from the Surfer that would suggest he's capable of doing this?
Isn't it just a matter of time before Norrin finds a way to effect the speed force, mess with gravity, or transmute the ground Wally's running on?'
I was posing the question, not asserting the answer!
As I understand it, Surfer can "analyze and manipulate matter and energy, and restructure or animate matter at will, even transmuting elements. He can heal living beings (though he cannot raise the dead), and has proven capable of revitalizing or evolving organic life on a planet wide scale. He can alter the size of himself or of other matter, cast illusions, fire energy blasts, form and manipulate energy constructs, manipulate gravity, absorb and discharge most forms of energy, and phase through solid matter. His senses enable him to detect objects and energies light years away, and to perceive matter and energy in subatomic detail; he can even see through time, and with concentration can achieve limited perception of past and future events in his general vicinity. The Surfer has demonstrated limited telepathic ability on occasion, and has proven able to influence human emotion and sensation."
As far as I can tell, Surfer can analyze and control exotic forms of energy. Would the speed force fall under that category? Couldn't he quickly study it and find a way to manipulate it? Also, if he can manipulate matter and energy and restructure it at will, doesn't that mean he can basically do whatever he wants to whomever he wants? If he's bloodlusted, what's to stop him from splitting his enemies' atoms? Or turning them into a noble gas? Please believe me when I say I'm asking more than telling! Surfer's powers are immense, varied and their limits are ill-defined to the best of my knowledge.
Wally or bust.
So, nothing to suggest that the Surfer can manipulate the Speed Force? Cool.
@static_shock: Well, what do you think about the rest of it? What are the limits of Surfer's transmutation and energy manipulation abilities? Can he split an opponents atoms? Can he turn Diana's Lasso into a noble gas? Can he analyze and manipulate the Speed force? Why can he and more importantly why can't he? I'd like to hear some thoughts.
@cramandman: Knocking him off his board isn't going to do anything as he can levitate without it. Norrin can find a way to manipulate the Speed Force if he figures out that's empowering Wally; those stating he can't because the Speed Force is too special are wrong.
@king_majestros: How about the rest? Can he split an opponents' atoms? Can he turn Diana's Lasso into a noble gas? Can he study Billy's Magic and reverse his transformation into Captain Marvel? What do you think his limits are?
I believe his "can't fly " point comes from the fact that surfer begins almost all of his fights in air.
@cramandman: Surfer has done quite a number of marvelous things. Atomizes an Enemy (basically splitting the dude's atoms), Rebuilds Beta Ray Bill's Hammer (doing something for an object as magically powerful as that should indicate his potential affect on Diana's lasso), followed by Transmuting an Enemy's Weapon into Liquid (should help in effing up Diana's lasso, too). So, yes, he can. I'll see what I can find on Silver Surfer and magic, but nothing is coming to mind, yet. As far as his limits go, in my honest opinion, he shouldn't have any with the type of power he has.
@king_majestros: I don't think I can or I will transmute. I am bloodlusted which is bad, really bad for planet Earth and it's inhabitants.
RIP Earth.
@cramandman: Surfer has done quite a number of marvelous things. Atomizes an Enemy (basically splitting the dude's atoms), Rebuilds Beta Ray Bill's Hammer (doing something for an object as magically powerful as that should indicate his potential affect on Diana's lasso), followed by Transmuting an Enemy's Weapon into Liquid (should help in effing up Diana's lasso, too). So, yes, he can. I'll see what I can find on Silver Surfer and magic, but nothing is coming to mind, yet. As far as his limits go, in my honest opinion, he shouldn't have any with the type of power he has.
Thank you for your thoughtful response. I appreciate it. Basically, whatever you can imagine, Surfer can do. His only limit might be the range of his manipulation. I'm guessing a planet would be too big for him to Atomize since he's in the business of feeding them to Galactus.
Surfer stomps.
If he just traveled 2 light years (minimum) in 2 seconds (minimum) he was moving 31,540,000x FTL at minimum.
Wally is the only Flash faster than that AFAIK and that's only through speed steal and massive amps.
@cramandman: He has destroyed a planet, do make a point to Ravenous during Annihilation.
@cramandman: He has destroyed a planet, do make a point to Ravenous during Annihilation.
Whoa!! So no limits whatsoever! AWESOME! If he can destroy the earth or even just a large enough part of it, I think it's safe to say he wipes out team DC.
@tedirey: False. Surfer would destroy both Captain Marvel and Wonder Woman if he wanted to, just like he would destroy Thor without being written with PIS/CIS/WIS as usual. Each and every one of his fights with Thor ends up the way it does either because Thor is amped or because Thor is trying to kill him while Surfer is trying to reaosn with him. Add to the fact that Thor NEVER defeated Silver Surfer unless we are talking about their fights in Blood and Thunder, the story where Thor was amped with Warrior Madness while having the power gem which made him powerful enough to fight Thanos. Period.
@tedirey: Nice. Not let me show you Darkseid getting his ass kicked by fodders, Wonder Woman getting her ass kicked by hurt Batman, Superman getting his ass kicked by Deathstroke...
Your argument is not helping you at all. It can only be torn apart. The only thing you do is low ball other characters while Ignoring the consistency, context and character's abilities.
On Topic:
Billy and Diana get destroyed to Kingdom Come. Wally can solo.
@tedirey: Good. Posting a scan that is NOT CANON. You should stop before I tear your argument apart.
Why do the people who are advocating for Surfer think that Radd will-FOR SURE-get the chance to do any of the wonderful things they claim, when he is facing not one, not Two, but THREE opponents who have exhibited combat speed that MORE than rivals his?
Apparently, in their minds, the three will JUST STAND THERE and let Radd do whatever he wants to do. Perhaps even cheering him on the whole way. For no real reason, really---just BECAUSE, I guess.
Not likely.
Diana alone has deflected the TRILLION (that's with a T) incoming shards of the Shattered God, roped Amazo before the android could complete it's thought/sentence/threat (despite this opponent being an adversary who has a super computer brain able to process data at unfathomable rates,and was backed up with the combined speeds of Diana and Superman at the time), and-right after withstanding THREE CONSECUTIVE IMPS from him-lassoed ZOOM.
While SIGHTLESS.
But somehow Surfer is going to-FOR SURE-beat ALL of these people to the draw? FOR SURE? The team has NO CHANCE to win?
I just don't think that's a fair, honest, reasonable, or logical scenario.
Anything is possible, but I think the most LIKELY thing to happen is that, BLOODLUSTED, Wally, being the fastest person here, will strike first and speed steal Surfer's speed; Diana will follow close behind and, using her own fantastic speed, lasso Radd into place, immobilizing him; the fight could end right there, or being BLOODLUSTED, Captain Marvel could then proceed to give Radd a super speed, brutal (and potentially FATAL) beat down (opponents weaker, slower, and/or BOTH have done everything from send Surfer flying through the air screaming in pain, to KOing him). After which Diana could dismember Radd with the cut through anything atoms splitting sword, and the pieces split far and wide (Cap could take some parts and intern them on The Rock Of Eternity, Wally could trap some parts in The Speed Force, and Diana could teleport some to some distant, obscure realm via her lasso (I don't think this counts as BFR if Radd is slain FIRST).
Again, anything is possible, and I guess Surfer could win---but given that his opponents are ALSO bloodlusted and one of them is freakin' WALLY WEST FLASH, I think the MOST LIKELY result of this battle is:
Wonder Woman, Flash and Captain Marvel win.
Captain Marvel and Wonder Woman are basically Gladiator without a weakness that he can exploit.
So? Gladiator would get destroyed by Silver Surfer without exploiting his weaknesses. The scan you posted is not canon and therefor is not helping you.
They stomped him hard.
No.
Sorry to prove you wrong again.
In your dreams.
Guess we're done. Bye.
You are right, we are done. You just proved how you are lacking knowledge and the ability to debate properly. Fact that you are saying "bye" means you are gonna ignore this post so I don't have to waste my time posting scans of Silver Surfer, listing his abilities and show everyone how wrong you are.
I will know in the future not to tag you again, because you are just spanning nonsense and leave when you can't make an argument because you can't accept the fact that you are wrong and the characters you prefer lose badly. The most amazing thing is that you think you proved me wrong. But that means you have to make an argument first (not that you will be able to make one, even less a valid one).
Guess we are done here.
Surfer is powerful enough to win this. But he is a BAD FIGHTER...
It is not PIS every time he gets tagged by the Thing, Hulk or a random myriad of slower characters. I literally have over a 100 showings of him getting tagged by slow characters. And it is not PIS and it is not because he is slow.
It is because he is BAD AT FIGHTING.
Captain Marvel and Wonder Woman are basically Gladiator without a weakness that he can exploit. They stomp him hard. Sorry to prove you wrong again. Guess we're done. Bye.
Gladiator will destroy either WW or CM 1v1.
Surfer is powerful enough to win this. But he is a BAD FIGHTER...
It is not PIS every time he gets tagged by the Thing, Hulk or a random myriad of slower characters. I literally have over a 100 showings of him getting tagged by slow characters. And it is not PIS and it is not because he is slow.
It is because he is BAD AT FIGHTING.
True. And it's called CIS. When a character is fighting in a bad way and doesn't even try to use some of his common abilities. However, based on the rules of comic vine battle forum (unless stated otherwise), characters fight at best of their abilities. It means no jobbing and PIS/CIS/WIS getting involved, at least not a huge amount of it. Surfer still used his combat speed a lot of times in the past.
Well well I see the usual people are posting non canon scans and calling it an argument. Nothing new to see here
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