Silver surfer and sersi Vs jean grey and Exodus

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Olorun

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Poll Silver surfer and sersi Vs jean grey and Exodus (31 votes)

Norrin and sersi in a good fight. 52%
Jean and Exodus in a good fighy 39%
Too close to call 10%
  • Victory through incap, death, no bfr.
  • Everyone is morals off
  • Peak exodus
  • Peak sersi
  • Current jean(no phoenix feats but pink form is allowed).
  • 30m starting distance.
 • 
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Olorun

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WaitOmegaStorm

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Surfer and Sersi

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HukO

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Jean tps sersi

Surfer fodderizes both

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Olorun

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@huko: if jean were to go for sersi straight away do you think norrin would beat exodus fast enough to 1v1 jean? Remember also jean is allowed pink form.

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Olorun

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@cruelrain: i should probably tag you and marvelfan1992. But don't know who's the exodus expert on this website. Is it del_torro?

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del_torro

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Team 1,Surfer is too much

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ProfessorRespect

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#7  Edited By ProfessorRespect

@olorun said:

@cruelrain: i should probably tag you and marvelfan1992. But don't know who's the exodus expert on this website. Is it del_torro?

It's me.

OT: Morals off Surfer is too much with his hax and intangibility.

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Olorun

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@professorrespect: lmao that's assertive af, but it's good to know. Is he downplayed here?

Also since they're in character would norrin really phase the first chance he gets to do so?

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ProfessorRespect

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@olorun said:

@professorrespect: lmao that's assertive af, but it's good to know. Is he downplayed here?

Also since they're in character would norrin really phase the first chance he gets to do so?

I wouldn't say he's downplayed from what I'm seeing. Exodus is a solid telekinetic guy but against people like Surfer, he's outclassed in stats and hax.

Norrin doesn't need to phase. At current, he's intangible, and morals off means he can throw his full force while also using molecular powers, something he doesn't use unless provoked.

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Olorun

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@professorrespect: I'm sure surfer's regular phasing could most likely go through their tk but norrin's current "body" is psionic in nature, it was described as his consciousness, i think jean can affect him at the very least.

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ProfessorRespect

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@olorun said:

@professorrespect: I'm sure surfer's regular phasing could most likely go through their tk but norrin's current "body" is psionic in nature, it was described as his consciousness, i think jean can affect him at the very least.

Nah Surfer's mind is like a black box when it comes to TP, I'm pretty sure almost no telepath has managed to do anything to it

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Olorun

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@professorrespect: 1) I think norrin has had cable and some cosmic entities inside his head( now whether they beat him or not is a different topic).

What I'm trying to say is that silver surfer black is pure consciousness which would technically make him psionic energy and team might be able to counter his passive phasing(not the ability based one).

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maverickli

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PyroFN

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@olorun said:

@professorrespect: I'm sure surfer's regular phasing could most likely go through their tk but norrin's current "body" is psionic in nature, it was described as his consciousness, i think jean can affect him at the very least.

Nah Surfer's mind is like a black box when it comes to TP, I'm pretty sure almost no telepath has managed to do anything to it

Good thing you said almost.

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HukO

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Surfer still fodderizes both

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Olorun

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@pyrofn: norrin did acid? Lmao. Anyways you don't think pink form and her to are huge factors in this fight?

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PyroFN

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@olorun: Probably not. It would take a big amount of psionic power for Jean to contend with. And Jean is not invulnerable in her pink form, so Surfer could still take her down before she gets a hit in.

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TonyStark6999

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Underfire47

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Surfer should solo honestly.

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LordOfAllHumans

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@pyrofn: doesn't the power cosmic come from the astral plane, thus making SS a viable and powerful source of energy for her to siphon?

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marvelfan1992

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Surfer is too much for them

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PyroFN

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@lordofallhumans: Not from what Jean usually resorts to when she uses this ability. It is always whatever psychic energy is available in around her. Granted, in a hypothetical scenario, that could be a possibility, but Jean has never demonstrated to use it that way in a situation.

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Olorun

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@pyrofn: sure but jean still has a chance of tk blasting him. What if I equalised the speeds?? Would it be more even?

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Olorun

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@lordofallhumans: im not sure that this is entirely true. From what I gathered when I read annihilation and silver surfer: in thy name. Thanos examined morg's body to find out the origin of a herald's power cosmic which he then found out that the reason why every herald is different is because the power cosmic takes its owners' mental and soul shape, this happens in the astral plane hence why norrin said the source of his power is the astral plane.

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PyroFN

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@pyrofn: doesn't the power cosmic come from the astral plane, thus making SS a viable and powerful source of energy for her to siphon?

Oh! I didn't see the power cosmic explanation.....

That is true. We would have to go back to the Galactus feat to see. Honestly, the ambient psionic energy might not be enough. Measuring the feat, Jeen drained an entire planet of psychic energy, Galactus, Terrax, and Phoenix, yet she managed to only knock Galactus. Not full on ko him. Just knock him down and scare the big guy. Bunn himself stated that the future Jean Grey from Extermination with theoretically more skill and power of the same abilities fighting future Galactus was probably losing her confrontation with Galactus, which scales for Surfers and Galactus not being enough.

Its difficult to say for sure. Maybe if Jean drains him dry, then its a possibility that she could pull a win, but that is a BIG if. Its been proven Jean isn't invulnerable in her pink form, so there is a strong chance that if Surfer catches wind of what she is doing, he will end it quickly before she can manage to absorb enough energy to even contest.

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PyroFN

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@olorun: Its not speed that is the problem. Its a power difference. It is basically this question:

Can Jean absorb enough psionic energy to bridge the gap before Surfer realizes that she is trying to scoop enough energy to do so? We would have to see his track record against drainers to determine that.

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Olorun

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@pyrofn: Ieam at the end of blue future jean was able to absorb the psychic energy of 4 silver surfers and galactus and turn it into an aoe attack that took out all the surfer's. Norrin in character. Plus she's got the shields that norrin would have to phase through(which he doesn't do in character.

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PyroFN

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@olorun: That is better serving as a footnote with how Jean's pink form is meant to work as according to a writer that wrote the story of Galactus vs Jean Grey, but not a feat in itself.

That version of Teen Jean no longer exists post-Exterminnation.

And Jean's shields are powerful, but there is a limit. Unless we high-ball her by using high ends, there isn't much to use to say her shield could take consistent punishment from a cosmic threat.

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Olorun

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@pyrofn: norrin doesn't spam his attacks much. Plus exodus and Jean tp'ing sersi would turn this into a 3v1, now that's a good fight.

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PyroFN

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@olorun: That strategy is probably why Jean has any chance to begin with.

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LordOfAllHumans

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@pyrofn: oh I wasn't saying she would just win, you said she needs a big source to contend. His own power is such a source because if it comes from the astral plane the power cosmic at its root is psionic in nature. As far as Galactus she wouldn't need nearly as much energy to hit Surfer the same way. Like I said not saying that will do the trick but if it took those four sources to pimp slap Galactus to the point an alternate future timeline existed with that hit causing him major damage in that future, she wouldn't need nearly as much power to pimp slap SS. We know she can drain things and siphon from entire planets and cosmic forces almost instantly.

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Olorun

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@lordofallhumans: she had the phoenix and galactus energy and she still was only able to knock him down. By my calculations you'd need at least twice the amount of power a single person generates just to knock them down.

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LordOfAllHumans

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#33  Edited By LordOfAllHumans

@olorun: and she would need far less power to do the same to Silver Surfer. He is not on par with Galactus. If I need 4 sources to pimp slap Galactus technically I'd reckon one is more than enough to pimp slap him as two of the sources used against Galactus would stomp SS and the other two one being another herald and another being a planets worth of energy would give him pause. The thing about Pink form is Jean, as far as we know , needs fuel to even start a fight in it and she can near instantly siphon on a scale over planetary at her highest end so far, so Jean can basically feed off everyone in this battle rapidly. I'm not saying she's stomping or soloing or anything like that, but she has a quick, tried and true method to buff up to face any of them one on one.

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HukO

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Olorun

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@lordofallhumans: if she needs galactus powers x 2 to knock galactus down, them it only stands to reason that she would need norrin's energy times 2 to knock him down. Expect she had the phoenix and galactus himself as sources and she still couldn't do noticible damage. You're assuming that those 4 sources are anywhere equal. Feeding from the phoenix force itself=/= feeding from random aliens with no feats. I agree that if jean drained the phoenix she could slap norrin. I mean I think jean could 1v1 anyone here anyways. Or do you think exodus is superior to base jean?

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Olorun

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@huko: I mean her fight against exodus made her seem like so, but imo the rest of her feats are pretty mid to low high tier.

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LordOfAllHumans

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#37  Edited By LordOfAllHumans

@olorun: that's assuming SS is half as powerful as Galactus. Gladiator would stomp the imperial guard, the 05 and the Guardians of the Galaxy. There combined psi made her a match for him. If SS is a viable source he's food. Cable didn't need to be twice as powerful as SS to hang with him he only needed to be on par. Jean in this battle also has two other powerful psi talents to siphon as well so she'll still have enough power to hang with him. The aliens having feats is irrelevant and I never compared them to the Phoenix. They actually prove that all beings have psionic energy she can actively siphon regardless of whether or not it's shown they have any powers at all let alone psychic ones. They were merely a source of planetary energy, they don't need feats. That's like saying a victim of a vampire needs feats so we can gauge how much the blood empowered the vampire. If the blood has special properties it may be stronger, but for the most part regular ass blood is regular ass blood. So featless aliens still give off psi and she siphoned from all of them. Just like featless humans can make a vampire stronger.

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Olorun

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@lordofallhumans: what? Jean had to drain 2 characters of galactus tier to be able to knock him down. So I guess she would need 2 characters on norrin's level just to knock him down. You're not getting it, let me try to put this information in terms of tiers. Galactus is abstract tier and such it stands to reason that other abstracts may hurt him. But jean drained 2 abstracts an herald and a planet and couldn't hurt galactus, meaning that the psionic energy jean drains isn't equal to the total psionic energy a being has. Hence it takes more than 2 characters of that same tier to stagger/knockdown jean's opponent.

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Olorun

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@lordofallhumans: except Nathan was not on par with norrin, maybe in telekinesis but beyond that norrin was dominating,pushing besting his tk push and that was pre-annihilation norrin.

Sure I don't disagree that the aliens made her stronger and that jean can hang with norrin. My only hang up is the energy scaling for her pink formm

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LordOfAllHumans

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@olorun: she didn't drain them she siphoned from 4 sources. If she drained them she wouldn't need to do anything else. She siphoned from an entire planet and took power from the others. She did not have all the available power of Galactus and Phoenix just to punch Galactus. So your calculations are off simply because it's ridiculous to think it would take the power of Phoenix and Galactus, plus a planet and a herald to just punch him, when Phoenix alone has kicked his ass. Hence it would not take more than two characters to do the same to Surfer and she has 3 to siphon from in the battle anyway.

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Olorun

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@lordofallhumans: it's not off read my comment I stated that in theory she only takes a bit of their energy. And you yourself just confirmed it. Energy she siphoned from phoenix>>> energy she would siphon from exodus. This point was emphasised with the supreme intelligence as it had more energy for her to drain because it was the equivalent of billions of minds combined. The energy she would drain from norrin wouldn't hurt him but when you add exodus and sersi will, such as the energy of the phoenix+galan's+terrax+ a planet staggered him.

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LordOfAllHumans

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@olorun: and energy needed to take on Galactus >>>>>> than energy to take on SS. Cable with his full can match SS. As of now both Jean and Exodus are more powerful than Cable. So you don't need nearly as much power to be on par with SS as you do just to punch Galactus.

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Olorun

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@lordofallhumans: true but the energy she would take from exodus is also a fraction she took from either phoenix or galactus, in fact a smaller fraction since norrin is above exodus. I again believe pink form is a great match up in this scenario we're just not seeing eye to eye when it comes to the siphoning ability itself.

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Olorun

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@lordofallhumans: cable was not on par with pre-annihilation norrin. Norrin could've ended the fight whenever he felt like but he was listening to cable's reasoning norrin one shot him, and lobotomised him in one go. Hold your horses, exodus has better tk and tp than savior cable? This is slander imho.

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LordOfAllHumans

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@olorun: the fraction of psi she took from a handful of non psis was enough to match Gladiator who would stomp everyone she took the energy from. Whatever fractions she takes obviously multiplies her power as opposed to adding to it. Pink form is dependent on siphoning to start with, so she would already have to be charged up on top of being able to siphon more from SS, Exodus and Sersi. If he could've ended it he should have, because up until it stopped Cable was hanging with him. I said as of now and as of now his tk is supposed to be over everybody currently with tk. So in the realm of what we are arguing he's more powerful than Cable as far as the amount of energy his presence will contribute to Jean's siphoning, along with SS and Sersi which you seem to be ignoring to continue this debate that Jean needs more than Sufer to hit Surfer. She has more than Sufer with the other two.

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Olorun

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@lordofallhumans: oracle was there let us not forget this did indeed happen but there are contradictions to this such as the galactus instance and how her powers were described by oracle in that same very issue of the crossover.

Again norrin was listening to cable and not trying to finish him off. I'm not sure if it's my reading comprehension if you mean that cable was able to hold him off then sure I don't disagree.

I again agree that he has more than norrin but that's exactly the point. Jean had twice over the energy of galactus and she was only able to knock him down with no injuries, I guess this scenario is the same.

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LordOfAllHumans

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@olorun: so Oracle gave Jean enough power to match Gladiator? Fine you are proving my point about how the source can push her to levels beyond the source.

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Olorun

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@lordofallhumans: no, it obviously wasn't just oracle. But... Jean was only able to knock down galactus even with 2 sources of energy of equal power. She wasn't able to surpass a single source of power.

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LordOfAllHumans

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@olorun: she was able to surpass a single source of power when she first used it against Gladiator. He alone is above everyone there and their psi was enough for her to match him on her first try. There was one psi talent there and a bunch of non psis. So the way it was first explained even if only Oracle provided power it made her a match for Gladiator. With the "featless aliens" we find she pulls psi energy period. SS is between her lowest and highest rates of siphoning. She can definitely duplicate what she did to Galactus and arguably more with the sources in this battle.

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Olorun

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@lordofallhumans: I will be back in a few hours, I need to sleep and charge my phone(at 4%) but definitely look forward to a reply.