Shunsui(Bleach) vs Kizaru(One Piece)

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Saxz

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@quincy-q:

Except it's not Unquantifiable, it's the opposite of that, we are giving a quantifiable time frame (9hrs 15min IIRC) and at this point the verse have had several quantifiable speed feat, and when i say quantifiable, I mean it literally, like hard numbers/value,not some fan calc or some hype manga/databook statement(which may or may not be true) with baggages of antifeat.

I am glad we both agree it's an insane number, but giving the canon time and speed Given to us, the distance is at least multi planetary, which would result in relativistic+- FTL, anything less would make no sense and be unreasonable, so tell me again, what exactly you have a problem with cuz its definitely not quantifiability(if this word exist)

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Saxz

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@wot_m8:

Who am I???

Your worst nightmare.!!!

LolI couldn't find an appropriate meme for this, I wish I had joviolma's talent.

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Wot_m8

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@saxz: I am Batman would have sufficed and given me a good chuckle.

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Quincy-Q

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#154  Edited By Quincy-Q

@saxz: the distance was never given and we don't know how fast Ichigo was going (no proof it was his max speed) or if it was a consistent rate, or if the barriers slowed him down (strong enough friction to kill Ichigo without specific clothing so it's going to slow him down). It's not quantifiable, Bleach is my favorite Manga I've read it multiple times throughout and not once did it give us a quantifiable distance.

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Saxz

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@quincy-q:

Okay.

1. Distance? We weren't given a distance other than its really far and it's a week's travel for normal shunpo note even someone freefalling for a week gives a almost similarly ridiculous distance. But thankfully with the Ichigo feat we had a timeframe, which is just as good if you have a canon speed.

2. How fast Ichigo was going?? Definitely as fast as he could, considering his statement saying he was going to hurry like hell, an argument could be made he was moving at his Shikai's max speed but nope, in order to make it purely QUANTIFIABLE, we should use a canon speed value peformed by a Ichigo himself . Ichigo(a laughably lesser version) can move at speeds approaching mach 1000 this is from his direct feat against Gin's Bankai. I personally wouldn't consider Ichigo's max true shikai shunpo speed equal to his FKT arc self but it's a nice Lowball.

3. The clothes are a key, so he wouldn't have to deal with the friction, what do you mean strong enough? You do realize those clothes got one-shotted and vaped by a random Quincy arrow, How can something so feeble protect him? The clothes were made from the royal guards to be a specific key,you know The same key Aizen was about to kill thousands of people for. So no the Barriers didn't slow him down. If by some miracle they did slow him down they slowed him down as much as the seireitei dome barrier did-which means they were irrelevant.

5. Dude Kubo has given us a timeframe and a speed value, that's as good or even better proof as any other

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Quincy-Q

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#156  Edited By Quincy-Q

@saxz:

1.) Yep we don't get the distance.

2.) Proof he was going max speed? As I've pointed out he had to deal with the friction of the Gates and you can't see he didn't it was stated in manga he would have to force his way through them.

3.) The clothes protect from the friction of the Gates, Ichigo had to force through them. This is stated in the manga.

I'm sorry my dude but no matter how you look at it you can't quantify the distance and even if you could and it's millions of miles like you say that makes the feat an outlier.

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FaradaySloth

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Obvious troll is obvious troll. Imagine comparing a MHS+ character knowing the fate of the world is at stake vs driving your truck in a rush.

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JOVIOLMA

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#158  Edited By JOVIOLMA

Why didn’t she shoot her Bankai Jov? Because they blitzed her.

Dunno, better also ask why she repel them and also why she was tagged by their speed once they landed in the same way only to be tagged by Oh, she has a poor speed with her Bankai and she had no idea what the black creatures were, she only got scared and started doing anything(With enough speed to do so with her empty arm) when the creatures started attacking her, she was tagged by their speed and attack her regardless, nice to see your total lack of arguments, while doing great in ignoring your opponent's commentaries towards this in a attempt to make it sounds like you addressed the entirety of his points:'' It due debunk your logic since she was clearly fast enough to intercept them with her empty arm and could perceive their movements(Fact, Soifon could see their movements, repel them with her empty arm that wasn't using any heavy weapon and was free, but couldn't attack kill all the creatures in time for them to spread over her back very quickly, those same creatures were killed by Oh),The same Soifon was also tagged by them even after they land they managed to consume her entire Bankai and even covered her back before she could even do a thing about it, only to be killed by Oh, are you going to assume now they are faster climbing people than they are acting alonenow ? (Another fact, I know you will ignore on purpose while giving a poor explanation filled with more of your fan-fictions and headcanons in attempt to make it seems like you have a argument, you likely will say the lost speed once they grabbed Soifon) Or we should go be the manga and merely assume that in canon, she has lowered movements cuz of her Bankai weight(Nah, is you we are talking about, the guy that puts his headcanons and fan-fictions over feats, but I'm actually curious to know what more you have to create, I believe this one can reach 5th page today, what you think) ?''

And you keep showing this scan

I pretend to keep showing if needed though.

Starkk was the 1st Espada, at this point Kenny just battled the 5th and Ichigo went on to battle the 4th.

Now explain how this changes the fact Kubo treated it like a impressive feat come from all that distance only to blitz them, also, good job showing your poor interpretation of my claims, I never denied that he was stronger than Ichigo and Kenny, my point is that they are in the same spiritual tier(The levels of Soul Reapers, transcendent and above) but effortless blitzed them and Orihime. Ichigo is above transcendent beings such as Monster Aizen, who in base effortless blitzed the h3ll out of Soifon with no effort whatever, he would give Soifon the same treatment someone within his tier(When he wasn't one transcendent) would give Soifon the same treatment, instead, she perceived the creatures, repel them with her empty arm, those creatures never changed the way they moved, they will climbing one each other to travel till a certain point, and they were tagged and killed in the same way, all of those are things showed through several panels, and as an excuse for it, you created the fan-fiction that since Soifon didn't shoot the beings she had no idea what they were, they most have blitzed her despite the fact she can obviously observe their movements and despite the fact she and several other characters tagged them despite the way they moved don't change.

It due debunk your logic since she was clearly fast enough to intercept them with her empty arm and could perceive their movements, in Bleach within the same realm of power as their enemies one can blitz them from miles away without they even notice their approaching such as Starkk casually blitzing Kenny, Orihie and Ichigo despite being in the same spiritual tier as them,

That’s several tiers above them Jov. And this isn’t actually relevant to the current discussion.

We know everything that goes against your logic is irrelevant, so I'm okay, I actually thought you could interpret my statement, guess I put too much faith.

According to you she saw their descent clearly the entire time they were approaching and entered the sereitei and since it was Yhwach who just had the Soul King killed, absorbed Mimihagi and covered the entire Sereitei with a veil then these creatures were obviously his doing as well.

None of them knew what Yhwach did to Mimihagi, only that Mimihagi seems to be sucked from and that he disappeared, everything Soifon knew is that the black sky was a doing of the enemy, something the others don't seems to understand giving their questions, and yes, that's exactly what I'm saying, she didn't fired against them as she wasn't even sure what those things were, she only attacked them when they started climbing on her, she was tagged in the same by the creatures once they landed making your point of them being faster falling moot as we know she has a speed retardation once she wields her Bankai, that's why she could still tag them with her left arm, even the falling ones, and that's how she wasn't fast enough to avoid several of them covering her back, but Oh could faster than her, and that's would be the explanation as for why she didn't ran away and only stood there. And even fodders like base Rukia could perceive the creatures falling in a close range, and she would get blitzed by Ichigo effortless.

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So again there was no reason why she couldn’t fire her Bankai at them unless you know, she was clearly blitzed.

She saw them coming, repel them by herself and fodders had no trouble keeping up with it, no, I will stick the idea she simple didn't ran away due to the Bankai's weight and lack of knowledge she had about the creatures's origin and their goals.

Ichigo wasn’t using his Trancendant power at the time he only used his true power when fighting Yhwach in their last bout and the creatures are special beings made out of the Soul Kings power they can’t really be compared to anything else in the series.

Ichigo was always a transcendent, he regained the power he had when he fought Aizen, and I'm curious to know how could Yhwach know his Bankai form was a transcendent and comparable to the Dangai form if he never saw a HoS Ichigo, neither had no one in the series.

And...regaining the power you lost...from defeating Sosuke Aizen...was to take Reio's life in front of my eyes(Yhwach outright stated that he regained the power that he used to defeat Aizen and used it to kill Reio-by being controlled by Yhwach once he touched his sword- therefore, is logical to conclude Ichigo was a always a transcendent in his True Shikai form since the moment he killed Reio, he always was, he surpassed it once he entered in HoS.
And...regaining the power you lost...from defeating Sosuke Aizen...was to take Reio's life in front of my eyes(Yhwach outright stated that he regained the power that he used to defeat Aizen and used it to kill Reio-by being controlled by Yhwach once he touched his sword- therefore, is logical to conclude Ichigo was a always a transcendent in his True Shikai form since the moment he killed Reio, he always was, he surpassed it once he entered in HoS.
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どうやら

But it seems

無防備な訳ではないな

That this is not the case

漲る霊圧が形となって見える様だ

It appears the reiatsu that flows forth from you has taken shape and become visible

強くなったな・・・・・・

You’ve grown strong……

―――――いや

--------No

それこそが本来のお前の力だ

That's your true power

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3
''tHey cAN'T rEallY bE cOMPaRed To aNYtHIng eLSe in tHe sEries'', proceed to get killed by fodder.

Let me guess know, they are also weaker when they land, you are about to become utterly comical if you use that as a actual argument, nah, I shouldn't doubt you to use it in failed attempt to prove something.

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Sure you do Jov. Mind telling me what form the Auswhalen takes to travel to and from the Sereitei? I’ll give a hint.

Aushwalen is a transference of power, is called Light cuz it assumes the shape and appearance of light, which has no value while discussing speed. I shall now assume by the word of the great Leo, that a technique looks like Light and is called light, they most travel at the speed of light despite not being natural in source and actually just being a transference of power, what about Gems ? Who are physical manifestations of light, do they move at Light speed as well cuz of this despite nothing proving and the best reaction feat gaps in the Mid end 3 digit mach ?

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This is headcanon.

Is legit as you assuming they were miles away from each other despite the lack of proof, if you are going to use your headcanons in attempts to deny feats which we know you use in a regular basis, it's wrong for someone to use the same against you ? And this is no headcanon, if you don't even read the manga you yourself keep debating for more than 1 year I can't do nothing for you.

''That light sucks our power even if we're not directly hit by it... ? '' Check out this amazing headcanon I drew for you.
''That light sucks our power even if we're not directly hit by it... ? '' Check out this amazing headcanon I drew for you.

They didn’t have the delay they did when they came down so they wouldn’t have the same speed as when they came down. This is common sense.

Or you know, is Leo ''logic'' in a attempt to make feats he know are not impressive, impressive to put Bleach in tiers they are not and to create excuses for characters dodging attacks that cross the distance Ichigo took hours to cross. And this common sense non sense you brought to justify a dodge or the size of Aushwalen as well their distance, who decided this ? You and your friends ? Or merely you ?

Don’t know what you’re trying to say here.

Bruh

Again we know light travels more than 100,000 miles a second.

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Since there was fraction of a second between the time the first beam landed and the time the other ones landed that gives us a distance of Thousands of miles.

No, you made that up. You made the claim they were thousands of miles from each other, go ahead and prove it, the only time we can see their difference is in the return, and they definitely are not thousands of miles away from each other.

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Quincy-Q

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@faradaysloth: How am I a troll? Sure it's a bad comparison I'll admit that and we can ignore it. It's still not a quantifiable distance.

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Saxz

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#160  Edited By Saxz

@quincy-q:

1. We get a very specific timeframe and a very specific speed value. That's just as good, there's no denying that it is at least good enough to make a nigh accurate estimate.

2. Proof he was going max speed? Ichigo said so himself, he said he was going to "hurry like hell" (you need a scan) and the trip was specifically said to be done done using Shunpo(a high speed technique).

Secondly I am not using Ichigo's max speed here, even though you insert your Barrier jabbering, the fact that I am using Mach 1000(an outdated speed value) is enough to compensate for any barrier hold up(which BTW you made up and have no proof of), you could even cut that by half and use Mach 500 or even Mach 300, it still leaves the result at a couple million kilometers.

Thirdly, I don't think you read it the first time, the clothes Ichigo has on is a key that opens the barrier not a super durable defense that helps him force his way through. Except you think Random Quincy arrow >>>> SKP barrier defenses, because a random Quincy arrow vaporized those clothes.

I just quantified and estimated the distance using the values Kubo gave us, any problems you have are made up honestly, I mean Barrier hold up? Friction? Where the hell did those come from, was it specifically stated that those slowed him down a considerable amount, If it was stated then yeah I concede, but last I checked nothing of sort was stated.

Why would you call it an outlier?? Do you even know what an outlier is? There's no reason this qualifies as one, if there is, you are free to state so.

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LeoTheGreatest

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#161  Edited By LeoTheGreatest

God that’s a lot of word vomit. Again Jov why didn’t Soifon fire the Bankai? Since she saw them coming the entire way down and knew they were bad news why didn’t she fire it? I’m not claiming her Bankai restricted her movement I’m asking you why didn’t she fire it?

Now explain how this changes the fact Kubo treated it like a impressive feat come from all that distance only to blitz them, also, good job showing your poor interpretation of my claims, I never denied that he was stronger than Ichigo and Kenny, my point is that they are in the same spiritual tier(The levels of Soul Reapers, transcendent and above) but effortless blitzed them and Orihime. Ichigo is above transcendent beings such as Monster Aizen, who in base effortless blitzed the h3ll out of Soifon with no effort whatever, he would give Soifon the same treatment someone within his tier(When he wasn't one transcendent) would give Soifon the same treatment, instead,

None of that makes sense.

she perceived the creatures, repel them with her empty arm, those creatures never changed the way they moved, they will climbing one each other to travel till a certain point, and they were tagged and killed in the same way, all of those are things showed through several panels, and as an excuse for it, you created the fan-fiction that since Soifon didn't shoot the beings she had no idea what they were, they most have blitzed her despite the fact she can obviously observe their movements and despite the fact she and several other characters tagged them despite the way they moved don't change.

No Jov according to you she saw what they were the entire time. So since she knew they were the enemy and her Bankai was perfectly suited to deal with them why didn’t she fire it? Oh that’s right because they clearly blitzed her and then were treated like fodder for plot.

And...regaining the power you lost...from defeating Sosuke Aizen...was to take Reio's life in front of my eyes(Yhwach outright stated that he regained the power that he used to defeat Aizen and used it to kill Reio-by being controlled by Yhwach once he touched his sword- therefore,

You literally just wrote and understood that he was talking about Ichigo regaining that power at that very moment.

is logical to conclude Ichigo was a always a transcendent in his True Shikai form since the moment he killed Reio, he always was, he surpassed it once he entered in HoS.

Why would you say this knowing it’s a lie?

And regardless that’s wrong either way Ichigo was still jobbing until he faced Yhwach in their last bout, for the nth time.

No Caption Provided

Let me guess know, they are also weaker when they land, you are about to become utterly comical if you use that as a actual argument, nah, I shouldn't doubt you to use it in failed attempt to prove something.

They were never actually strong they were clearly ridiculously fast going down and then we’re treated like fodder for the most part due to plot.

Aushwalen is a transference of power, is called Light cuz it assumes the shape and appearance of light, which has no value while discussing speed. I shall now assume by the word of the great Leo, that a technique looks like Light and is called light, they most travel at the speed of light despite not being natural in source and actually just being a transference of power,

If it’s not a natural source then what is it Jov? It isn’t made out of Reishi, it traveled a massive distance in the time it would take light to travel, it’s referred to as a beam of light.

You’re simply appealing to ignorance here.

what about Gems ? Who are physical manifestations of light, do they move at Light speed as well cuz of this despite nothing proving and the best reaction feat gaps in the Mid end 3 digit mach ?

Huh?

Or you know, is Leo ''logic'' in a attempt to make feats he know are not impressive, impressive to put Bleach in tiers they are not and to create excuses for characters dodging attacks that cross the distance Ichigo took hours to cross. And this common sense non sense you brought to justify a dodge or the size of Aushwalen as well their distance, who decided this ? You and your friends ? Or merely you ?

This is just you whining at this point Jov. The return doesn’t correlate to the launch there was no delay unlike the former. The world isn’t going to end if you admit you’re wrong.

Is legit as you assuming they were miles away from each other despite the lack of proof, if you are going to use your headcanons in attempts to deny feats which we know you use in a regular basis, it's wrong for someone to use the same against you ? And this is no headcanon, if you don't even read the manga you yourself keep debating for more than 1 year I can't do nothing for you.

No, you made that up. You made the claim they were thousands of miles from each other, go ahead and prove it, the only time we can see their difference is in the return, and they definitely are not thousands of miles away from each other.

I don’t know if your being ignorant on purpose or if you actually don’t understand but I’ll try to explain this in simpler terms.

We can find the distance between two objects going at a certain speed by noting the time it takes the second object to make it to the same point the first object made it to and the speed it was going at.

If two cars raced in a straight line and we know that the one in second place was going at exactly 100 mph we would find out the distance it was at when the first car passed the finish line by noting how long it took the second place car to get to the finish after the first car did. If in this scenario that was 5 seconds then we’d simply convert 100 miles per hour into miles per second or feet per second to get 146.667 feet per second then multiply that by 5 because it took it five seconds and we get 733.335 feet. Understand?

So if light travels at 186,282 miles per second and the delay of the second beam of light was a second that would mean the other beam of light was 186,282 miles away when the first one stuck now you can say it was .9 seconds .8 seconds .7 seconds .6 seconds ect. The outcome would still be thousands of miles and be enough of a distance for a MHS + character to get out of the way.

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Quincy-Q

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@saxz: You didn't really counter the point I made. You have to prove he was able to travel at a consistent speed and at a high speed because of the barriers. You did not.

It's an outlier because Yhwach reacting to something that crosses "millions of miles" in an instant is way above any speed in the series

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JOVIOLMA

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#163  Edited By JOVIOLMA

God that’s a lot of word vomit. Again Jov why didn’t Soifon fire the Bankai? Since she saw them coming the entire way down and knew they were bad news why didn’t she fire it? I’m not claiming her Bankai restricted her movement I’m asking you why didn’t she fire it?

I mean, is better than enter the thread and vomit non sense like you did entering here:''iF kIZaRu iS lIght sPeEd, lIlle haS tO bE As wELL''. And about the second point, you are assuming she knew it was bad news, she didn't knew what the creatures are or what they were suppose to do, even when the fell into her she only had any offensive reaction when they start grabbing her Bankai, ignoring the plethora of arguments and the points your opponent bring only to mock them to make you sound smart is typical from u huh ? Seems like some people never change:''Dunno, better also ask why she repel them and also why she was tagged by their speed once they landed in the same way only to be tagged by Oh, she has a poor speed with her Bankai and she had no idea what the black creatures were, she only got scared and started doing anything(With enough speed to do so with her empty arm) when the creatures started attacking her, she was tagged by their speed and attack her regardless, nice to see your total lack of arguments, while doing great in ignoring your opponent's commentaries towards this in a attempt to make it sounds like you addressed the entirety of his points:'' It due debunk your logic since she was clearly fast enough to intercept them with her empty arm and could perceive their movements(Fact, Soifon could see their movements, repel them with her empty arm that wasn't using any heavy weapon and was free, but couldn't attack kill all the creatures in time for them to spread over her back very quickly, those same creatures were killed by Oh),The same Soifon was also tagged by them even after they land they managed to consume her entire Bankai and even covered her back before she could even do a thing about it, only to be killed by Oh, are you going to assume now they are faster climbing people than they are acting alonenow ? (Another fact, I know you will ignore on purpose while giving a poor explanation filled with more of your fan-fictions and headcanons in attempt to make it seems like you have a argument, you likely will say the lost speed once they grabbed Soifon) Or we should go be the manga and merely assume that in canon, she has lowered movements cuz of her Bankai weight(Nah, is you we are talking about, the guy that puts his headcanons and fan-fictions over feats, but I'm actually curious to know what more you have to create, I believe this one can reach 5th page today, what you think) ?''

None of that makes sense.

I mean, it debunks and refutes your senseless logic as well explains using the manga the speed and spiritual tiers as well corrects your poor interpretation of my claims, if you have problem understanding that, is none of my business.

No Jov according to you she saw what they were the entire time. So since she knew they were the enemy and her Bankai was perfectly suited to deal with them why didn’t she fire it? Oh that’s right because they clearly blitzed her and then were treated like fodder for plot.

You can't blitz someone if this someone can see you, if they can perceive you but don't move in time he is simple moving faster than you can block or dodge but you can still see them coming, she never knew what they were, you made that up, the only time they took any aggressive behavior in relation to the creatures was when they started climbing on her Bankai and her.

  • Leo- They blitz her and none can compete against them-
  • Manga-Soifon perceives them but not knows their nature or what they are or what they are suppose to do and the creatures were effortless killed by everyone who only problem was the quantity.
  • Leo- P L O T

If Kubo had any intention to make them sounds powerful, he would make it, he would make a situation where they were being overwhelmed they Aizen comes and saves the day showing his power, and not show how useless and weak the creatures are, in all honest, considering Soifon was only ''blitzed'' once, while the creatures were killed and tagged several times, it seems more legit to assume they blitzing her was plot than assume they killing them was.

You literally just wrote and understood that he was talking about Ichigo regaining that power at that very moment.

Learn how to interpret my claims, he had the power of a transcendent since he killed the SK, he always had that power after and before that event, my point is how when he killed SK the power he wielded was the power he had when he fought Aizen, the Dangai version.

Why would you say this knowing it’s a lie?

No Caption Provided

And regardless that’s wrong either way Ichigo was still jobbing until he faced Yhwach in their last bout, for the nth time.

There is nothing in your scan saying he was jobbing, he simple didn't used his HoS and Bankai yet, just like Yhwah didn't used the Almighty, wtf are you trying to prove tbw, where in this says he is not strong as when he fought Aizen ? I already posted btw the raw japanese scan and translation, you are free to check if you want above.

They were never actually strong they were clearly ridiculously fast going down and then we’re treated like fodder for the most part due to plot.

People's mind change very quickly huh ? And they can also contradicts themselves quickly in the same sentence. I really would love if you prove it was plot, the creatures were never treated as a big deal or something impressive in power or in any regard, they were just black creatures that gave trouble to the Shinigami due to their quantity not their power, only to be killed by Aizen effortless with his SC.

Leothegreatest 23:59

the creatures are special beings made out of the Soul Kings power they can’t really be compared to anything else in the series.

Leothegreatest 00:00

They were never actually strong

And the funniest of this all is how they never changed their way of locomotion, something you had been ignoring since the beginning that I said.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3
Still moving climbing on each other like how they came to the palace in the first place.

If it’s not a natural source then what is it Jov?

What it's Jugram ?

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Seriously, you are getting very repetitive, bringing the claims you had from the beginning of page 3 like they have any value, 1 year later, and you still didn't changed huh ?

It isn’t made out of Reishi, it traveled a massive distance in the time it would take light to travel, it’s referred to as a beam of light.

Is not even made of anything, is just transference of power, you have no prove for the second point but your fan-fictions/headcanons, and being referred as a beam of light doesn't make it light speed, you know what travels at the speed of light ? Photons, electromagnetic radiation and gravitational waves, technological lasers and attacks that confirmed by sources to use natural light or to move at light speed, so far, you proved you had none of those but your fan-fictions to prove it is Light speed, 1 year later, and you still trying to give Bleach characters the benefit of having feats they don't possess.

You’re simply appealing to ignorance here.

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Huh?

Answer the question, let's see the amazing logic you will pull

This is just you whining at this point Jov

I'm actually vey calm, not sure why you assume I'm whining when I have a smile or a neutral look on my face since the moment I entered here.

. The return doesn’t correlate to the launch there was no delay unlike the former. The world isn’t going to end if you admit you’re wrong Jov.

So go ahead, prove it, as well prove the beams were miles away from each other in distance when they were fired, not: Light travels at 100.000 miles per second, light does travels, Aushwalen sadly for you, is not natural light.

I don’t know if your being ignorant on purpose or if you actually don’t understand but I’ll try to explain this in simpler terms.

Considering the level of reaching you brought here since the beginning, you are in no position to call someone ignorant, specially when your claims are by themselves supported by nothing but your fan-fictions and headcanons.

We can find the distance between two objects going at a certain speed by noting the time it takes the second object to make it to the same point the first object made it to and the speed it was going at.

Oh we can in certains occasions, I'm waiting for you to prove it for the beam that reached Rob first with the one who was sent to kill Lilo, can you do that ?

If two cars raced in a straight line and we know that the one in second place was going at exactly 100 mph we would find out the distance it was at when the first car passed the finish line by noting how long it took the second place car to get to the finish after the first car did. If in this scenario that was 5 seconds then we’d simply convert 100 miles per hour into miles per second or feet per second to get 146.667 feet per second then multiply that by 5 because it took it five seconds and we get 733.335 feet. Understand?

So if light travels at 186,282 miles per second and the delay of the second beam of light was a second that would mean the other beam of light was 186,282 miles away when the first one stuck now you can say it was .9 seconds .8 seconds .7 seconds .6 seconds ect. The outcome would still be thousands of miles and be enough of a distance for a MHS + character to get out of the way.

No Caption Provided

Now the part this proves anything for Bleach manga, as well the part Yhwach's Aushwalen falls into this category ? Actually, wtf ? Are you really that desperate that you will brought this huge amount of non sense with numbers you pulled out of your mind not present anywhere in the manga ? Do have the distance, the time frame and the statement or scan suggesting how far which one of the beams were from each other ? You are getting worse and worse on it as much as you keep answering me, let's see your levels of arguments once this hit the 5th page or above.

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#166 shirso  Online
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@quincy-q:

I countered that made up notion by using a

>far reduced speed

>showing on-panel evidence that barriers don't slow him down (seireitei barrier)

> A meagre 72 barriers spamming that massive distance will barely hinder his speed, it's like saying 7 short road blocks/security checks would meaningfully impact your journey's time across a very large country/continent.

>The Oken was meant to specifically get him through those barrier, during previous travel Using the Oken(king's key), when they used the pillar, there wasn't any friction or impact slowing them down, they barely even felt any impact.

Now it's your turn to prove that what you're saying isn't headcanon and Ichigo was indeed "slowed down" a considerable amount by the friction. I'll wait.

The fact that it's above every speed feat in the series doesn't means it's an outlier because Yhwach is above everyone in the series and more importantly he has no antifeats. Which is more than I can say for some.

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Quincy-Q

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@saxz: I already proved what I needed to and you haven't disproven it. The Oken was stated word for word for protect him from the friction not erase the friction and he was stated word for word go FORCE his way through. This comes straight from the manga yet you claim the opposite. No sir.

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#169  Edited By LeoTheGreatest

I mean, is better than enter the thread and vomit non sense like you did entering here:''iF kIZaRu iS lIght sPeEd, lIlle haS tO bE As wELL''. And about the second point, you are assuming she knew it was bad news, she didn't knew what the creatures are or what they were suppose to do, even when the fell into her she only had any offensive reaction when they start grabbing her Bankai, ignoring the plethora of arguments and the points your opponent bring only to mock them to make you sound smart is typical from u huh ? Seems like some people never change:''Dunno, better also ask why she repel them and also why she was tagged by their speed once they landed in the same way only to be tagged by Oh, she has a poor speed with her Bankai and she had no idea what the black creatures were, she only got scared and started doing anything(With enough speed to do so with her empty arm) when the creatures started attacking her, she was tagged by their speed and attack her regardless, nice to see your total lack of arguments, while doing great in ignoring your opponent's commentaries towards this in a attempt to make it sounds like you addressed the entirety of his points:'' It due debunk your logic since she was clearly fast enough to intercept them with her empty arm and could perceive theirmovements(Fact, Soifon could see their movements, repel them with her empty arm that wasn't using any heavy weapon and was free, but couldn't attack kill all the creatures in time for them to spread over her back very quickly, those same creatures were killed by Oh),The same Soifon was also tagged by them even after they land they managed to consume her entire Bankai and even covered her back before she could even do a thing about it, only to be killed by Oh, are you going to assume now they are faster climbing people than they are acting alonenow ? (Another fact, I know you will ignore on purpose while giving a poor explanation filled with more of your fan-fictions and headcanons in attempt to make it seems like you have a argument, you likely will say the lost speed once they grabbed Soifon)Or we should go be the manga and merely assume that in canon, she has lowered movements cuz of her Bankai weight(Nah, is you we are talking about, the guy that puts his headcanons and fan-fictions over feats, but I'm actually curious to know what more you have to create, I believe this one can reach 5th page today, what you think) ?''

Well no it isn’t better and we both know this nonsense doesn’t stand. Let’s go over it again.

Why didn’t she fire her Bankai while according to you seeing the creatures come down the entire way? “Her bankai is heavy” isn’t a reason. Ignoring the question isn’t the answer either. Be honest it won’t kill you. She got blitzed.

Reacting to the creatures when they were going at a slower pace doesn’t change the fact she got initially blitzed. In the very scan you’re posting she couldn’t perceive the ones that had already reached the ground she was still looking up.

No Caption Provided

That little section that broke off and went towards her, the one you keep boasting she blocked doesn’t mean anything when the ones on the ground had already reached the ground and moved past her before she can see them.

I mean, it debunks and refutes your senseless logic as well explains using the manga the speed and spiritual tiers as well corrects your poor interpretation of my claims, if you have problem understanding that, is none of my business.

You don’t make sense and then say it’s none of your business that your incoherent mess of a paragraph is not understandable?

You can't blitz someone if this someone can see you, if they can perceive you but don't move in time he is simple moving faster than you can block or dodge but you can still see them coming, she never knew what they were, you made that up, the only time they took any aggressive behavior in relation to the creatures was when they started climbing on her Bankai and her.

  • First panel- She saw them for a moment
  • Next panel- They completely swarmed her

But you mean to tell me that she saw this random black creatures coming down right after Yhwach killed the Soul King and ripped Mimihagi out of Ukitake and she decided I‘m going to wait till these creatures who have no intention to stop completely swarm me. I’ll even do them the favor of not firing my Bankai because they look so friendly.

I never claimed she knew what they were why? Because they blitzed her. I said that in your made up scenario of her watching them come down she would obviously know they were the enemy and fire at them. Like this.

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

If Kubo had any intention to make them sounds powerful, he would make it, he would make a situation where they were being overwhelmed they Aizen comes and saves the day showing his power, and not show how useless and weak the creatures are, in all honest, considering Soifon was only ''blitzed'' once, while the creatures were killed and tagged several times, it seems more legit to assume they blitzing her was plot than assume they killing them was.

The first part is preference the second part doesn’t make sense since they should be able to blitz her based on the distance they travelled down to the Soul Society.

Learn how to interpret my claims,

Learn how to explain yourself correctly.

he had the power of a transcendent since he killed the SK,

Yhwach confirmed he still had that power in this instance.

he always had that power after and before that event,

Within him? Yes. Was he using that power anytime before hand? No. You’re making that up if he was using anywhere near his Dangai strength he would’ve walked through the femritters and the rest of the sterns.

my point is how when he killed SK the power he wielded was the power he had when he fought Aizen, the Dangai version.

Yes and it was after he traveled down previously meaning he didn’t have that speed when he traveled down.

There is nothing in your scan saying he was jobbing, he simple didn't used his HoS and Bankai yet, just like Yhwah didn't used the Almighty, wtf are you trying to prove tbw, where in this says he is not strong as when he fought Aizen ? I already posted btw the raw japanese scan and translation, you are free to check if you want above.

He let a slew of Non Trancedants hang with him and Yhwach explicitly said he finally used his true power here.

No Caption Provided

Drop the HoS and Bankai nonsense those are in a realm of their own.

People's mind change very quickly huh ? And they can also contradicts themselves quickly in the same sentence. I really would love if you prove it was plot, the creatures were never treated as a big deal or something impressive in power or in any regard, they were just black creatures that gave trouble to the Shinigami due to their quantity not their power, only to be killed by Aizen effortless with his SC.

Leothegreatest 23:59

the creatures are special beings made out of the Soul Kings powerthey can’t really be compared to anything else in the series.

Leothegreatest 00:00

They were never actually strong

The first statement has nothing to do with strength you can’t compare them to anything else in the way they act and operate.

And the funniest of this all is how they never changed their way of locomotion, something you had been ignoring since the beginning that I said.

I never ignored that I proved it doesn’t matter.

Seriously, you are getting very repetitive, bringing the claims you had from the beginning of page 3 like they have any value, 1 year later, and you still didn't changed huh ?

is just transference of power, you have no prove for the second point but your fan-fictions/headcanons, and being referred as a beam of light doesn't make it light speed, you know what travels at the speed of light ? Photons, electromagnetic radiation and gravitational waves, technological lasers and attacks that confirmed by sources to use natural light or to move at light speed, so far, you proved you had none of those but your fan-fictions to prove it is Light speed, 1 year later, and you still trying to give Bleach characters the benefit of having feats they don't possess.

I’m not the one seeming unintelligent hiding behind a statement that changes nothing. The ability is a natural light that can rob the powers of whoever he chooses. What do you think? People are going to see that scan and say “Okay Jovy we’ll just pretend that the natural light was never shown”

Is not even made of anything

This is the best answer you’ve given. When in doubt just say that the thing in question was nothing.

You really outdid yourself there Jovy.

Answer the question, let's see the amazing logic you will pull

It didn’t make sense hence the, “huh?”

I'm actually vey calm, not sure why you assume I'm whining when I have a smile or a neutral look on my face since the moment I entered here.

Cap but okay.

So go ahead, prove it, as well prove the beams were miles away from each other in distance when they were fired, not: Light travels at 100.000 miles per second, light does travels, Aushwalen sadly for you, is not natural light.

The argument was that lil shouldn’t be able to dodge the light. I proved she could. You saying it isn’t light doesn’t mean anything here I proved you wrong.

Considering the level of reaching you brought here since the beginning, you are in no position to call someone ignorant, specially when your claims are by themselves supported by nothing but your fan-fictions and headcanons.

This is cute and all but you’ve yet to provide any counter evidence to my arguments. If appealing to ignorance made you a good debater you would be stellar right now.

Now the part this proves anything for Bleach manga, as well the part Yhwach's Aushwalen falls into this category ? Actually, wtf ?

What?

Are you really that desperate that you will brought this huge amount of non sense with numbers you pulled out of your mind not present anywhere in the manga ?

I used elementary school algebra and the known speed for light. Are you saying those things aren’t present in the Manga?

Do have the distance, the time frame and the statement or scan suggesting how far which one of the beams were from each other ?

The time frame was given, you simply enter that in a formula using the speed of light and basic algebra to figure out the distance.

You are getting worse and worse on it as much as you keep answering me, let's see your levels of arguments once this hit the 5th page or above.

Is this the first time you’ve seen someone problem solve? This is what real debating looks like Jov. You lost.

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Saxz

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@quincy-q:

He was quoted to "break through" with the key,not "Force" his way through,however the wording could be due to translation difference.but that not my point, my point is for you to prove that the barriers slowed him down considerably,till you provide that proof you have no valid objections.

No sir, you can't object canon values with some random headcanon pulled out of nowhere.

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Quincy-Q

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@saxz: Breaking through something is synonymous with forcing your way through.

You're the one objecting canon values. The author made a point to explain how Ichigo needed protection from the barriers and then explained that Ichigo would indeed "break through" which means force his way through. Why would the author state these things of Ichigo wasn't going to have trouble? Please explain.

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JOVIOLMA

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#172  Edited By JOVIOLMA

Well no it isn’t better and we both know this nonsense doesn’t stand. Let’s go over it again.

It's me you are talking about Leo, not yourself, so I'm not sure why you comparing my arguments with yours when I'm actually supporting them with the consistent feats accomplished feats in the manga and several on panel scans instead of using headcanons, regardless, let's continue this, maybe it can reach the 5th page and above if possibly.

Why didn’t she fire her Bankai while according to you seeing the creatures come down the entire way? “Her bankai is heavy” isn’t a reason.

This seems like a poor interpretation of my claims, so nice straw-man fallacy, but I shall not be surprised since it is you who I'm arguing, I didn't said in my answer to you she didn't shoot cuz her Bankai is heavy, I said she was unaware of the creatures origins and their goals and obviously didn't knew what they were and from who they come from and only took a offensive attitude alongside her comrades when the creatures started climbing on her.

that's exactly what I'm saying, she didn't fired against them as she wasn't even sure what those things were, she only attacked them when they started climbing on her, she was tagged in the same by the creatures once they landed making your point of them being faster falling moot as we know she has a speed retardation once she wields her Bankai, that's why she could still tag them with her left arm, even the falling ones, and that's how she wasn't fast enough to avoid several of them covering her back, but Oh could faster than her, and that's would be the explanation as for why she didn't ran away and only stood there

Notice the absence of she didn't fired cuz her Bankai is heavy, I'm saying she didn't shoot cuz she didn't knew what they were, and she didn't ran cuz of the weight of the Bankai

Ignoring the question isn’t the answer either. Be honest it won’t kill you.

This is rich coming from you though, you have been ignoring on panel scans and putting your headcanon over statements and feats since the beginning to the point several people are calling that out, even assuming Aushwalen is Light speed cuz is called light and since doesn't use Reishi there's no other option that Natural energy, as well you repeating this non sense over and over ignoring the scan explaining it's function still asking:''sO wHAt iT's jOV ?''

She got blitzed.

She and fodders seems to keep up very fine with the creatures as well perceive them, even when they were falling, 5 feats vs ''1'' that is dubious giving the context and the fact she was unaware of the creatures's origin and their purpose.

No Caption Provided

Reacting to the creatures when they were going at a slower pace doesn’t change the fact she got initially blitzed.

You mean your headcanon they got slower for no reason why falling with the help of gravity(10m per second), they also tagged her with Bankai before she could move as well despite her left hand being fast enough to repel some of them, and the ones who got on their back were tagged by Oh, and the ones falling were also perceived by Rukia, let me guess, you are going to say know they lost speed once they got on her back and they were slower jumping in Seretei.

In the very scan you’re posting she couldn’t perceive the ones that had already reached the ground she was still looking up.

Dude, she never look to her left, even when she could attack the creatures, I don't know how one can even use that as a point for anything.

That little section that broke off and went towards her, the one you keep boasting she blocked doesn’t mean anything when the ones on the ground had already reached the ground and moved past her before she can see them.

See let me guess this straight, the feat of her literally attacking them before they dodge with her empty hand doesn't mean anything, but Soifon not bothering look to the left is a proof she didn't saw them even though she never bothered to do so and was more focused on the ones literally coming at her face ?

You don’t make sense

No Caption Provided

and then say it’s none of your business that your incoherent mess of a paragraph is not understandable?

No, I said is none of my business if you can't understand what I'm saying, you have been using this logic about:''yOu doN'T maKE seNSe'' for more than one year. And indeed, if you are understanding or not what I'm saying is none of my problems and neither none of my business, if that's the case, you can ignore me and move on from this thread and continue to spread the same things in others as we know will be the case, or continue here arguing with someone that according to you(lol) doesn't make sense.

I mean, it debunks and refutes your senseless logic as well explains using the manga the speed and spiritual tiers as well corrects your poor interpretation of my claims, if you have problem understanding that, is none of my business.

  • First panel- She saw them for a moment
  • Next panel- They completely swarmed her

Also the next panel, they were repealed by her, her comrades(Fodders, except for Byakuya), and were perceived by base Rukia.

Leo- ''Yeah, they got slow when they stopped falling for magical reasons despite don't change their way of travel, gravity most increase their speed to FTL + when they are just MHS+''

No Caption Provided

But you mean to tell me that she saw this random black creatures coming down right after Yhwach killed the Soul King and ripped Mimihagi out of Ukitake and she decided I‘m going to wait till these creatures who have no intention to stop completely swarm me.

She didn't knew what the creatures were as already explained multiple times, everything they knew was that Mimihagi was somehow sucked from SS(She couldn't even knew of his fate and demise as the earthquakes stopped through SS meaning the world was stabilized something that which Mimi was responsible, everything she knew was that the sky suddenly changing color was a doing of the quincy, the creatures were beings she knew nothing and beings she didn't took any attitude to protect herself until they start climbing on her, that's what her friends did as well, they didn't saw the creatures and attacked them, Oh saw the creature climbing on her back and protected her.

I’ll even do them the favor of not firing my Bankai because they look so friendly.

No Caption Provided

I never claimed she knew what they were why? Because they blitzed her.

No, she simple didn't moved away and din't fired her Bankai, cuz she was unaware of the creatures origins or their purpose, with her empty arm she could even repel them some even falling and Oh could tag the ones that got on her back faster than she could dodge by himself despite being slower than her normal speed, meaning the creatures could always tag her before she could move while she is using Bankai, she simple didn't fired her Bankai on them.

I said that in your made up scenario of her watching them come down she would obviously know they were the enemy and fire at them. Like this.

Creatures she never saw before, she couldn't even figure out what they were or who sent them or for what purpose are now comparable to BG9 who was actually a threat and confirmed enemy who stole her Bankai and that tried to kill her ?

The first part is preference

Or you know, is simpling him showing the creatures are not big deal cuz that's exactly how they are portrayed consistently through the chapter

the second part doesn’t make sense since they should be able to blitz her based on the distance they travelled down to the Soul Society.

#Factsdoesntcareaboutyourfeelings, Lille who was also inferior to Ichigo fell from that distance faster than him, and Soifon saw the creatures coming as well repealed them alongside several characters.

Learn how to explain yourself correctly.

I'm explaining myself correctly, I posted the scans alongside the texts being specific, you understanding it or not is something that's not in my power.

Yhwach confirmed he still had that power in this instance.

You know that I don't disagree with this, so I'm not sure what point you are trying to make.

Within him? Yes.

Seems like you are understanding now.

Was he using that power anytime before hand? No.

Nope, put faith too quickly.

You’re making that up if he was using anywhere near his Dangai strength he would’ve walked through the femritters and the rest of the sterns.

No Caption Provided

Sure Leo, check out this amazing scan I made up, as well the text I made up:''And...regaining the power you lost...from defeating Sosuke Aizen...was to take Reio's life in front of my eyes'' (Ichigo regained the power he lost and that was the power he had during Aizen's fight, he used it to kill Reio, meaning the level he was when accomplishing that was the same as when he fought Aizen)Your poor interpretations kicking in again like they did when you argued with Azureus in the other thread ? Seems like some people never change no matter how much people point out the mistakes, and about the Fem Sternritter, well, Ichigo never had any actual intention to kill them, him playing around with them and screaming for Candice to dodge his Getsuga is a proof he didn't had killing intents towards them except Yhwach. The only Sternritter who ended up putting him a deadly situation was Askin off panel.

Yes and it was after he traveled down previously meaning he didn’t have that speed when he traveled down.

No Caption Provided

He let a slew of Non Trancedants hang with him and Yhwach explicitly said he finally used his true power here.

??? So are you saying that TS is a transcendent and was holding back against Sternritter before ?

Drop the HoS and Bankai nonsense those are in a realm of their own.

No one denied this

There is nothing in your scan saying he was jobbing, he simple didn't used his HoS and Bankai yet, just like Yhwah didn't used the Almighty, wtf are you trying to prove tbw, where in this says he is not strong as when he fought Aizen ? I already posted btw the raw japanese scan and translation, you are free to check if you want above.

The first statement has nothing to do with strength you can’t compare them to anything else in the way they act and operate.

Really ? Cuz it seems like that was your intention, specially since you said they killing and handling them was plot, the creatures are simple not strong, neither fast, so is Lille, he is slower than Ichigo who was hurried to arrive at SS when the barriers were activated and yet fell from the Wandreich to SS in a shorter time-frame than him.

I never ignored that I proved it doesn’t matter.

Proved is a word you shouldn't use as you didn't proved anything I dare to say, denial is not a argument neither is the fallacies you brought for Aushwalen, let alone ignoring the opponent's arguments by repeating yourself.

I’m not the one seeming unintelligent hiding behind a statement that changes nothing.

The statement that goes against your headcanon.

The ability is a natural light that can rob the powers of whoever he chooses

So go ahead, prove it, where's the scan saying is natural light ? You have been saying this non sense since the beginning, if that was the case you should have already brought the scan saying such a thing a long ago don't ?

. What do you think? People are going to see that scan and say “Okay Jovy we’ll just pretend that the natural light was never shown”

Leo, several people are actually pointing out your non sense here with memes and in Discord, you are the only one assuming that is natural light despite the absence of such statement in the manga, wtf ?

No Caption Provided

聖別

Auswählen

不要な滅却師の命と力を徴収し

A redistribution of power

必要な者に分け与える

That collects the lives and power of unessential Quincy

「力の再分配」

And divides it among those who are essential

奪われた者は死に

Those from whom power is taken perish

与えられた者は更なる力を得て蘇る

And those it is bestowed upon are revitalized with greater power

This is the best answer you’ve given.

No Caption Provided

When in doubt just say that the thing in question was nothing. You really outdid yourself there Jovy.

Oh don't get me wrong, I'm sticking with the canon, the thing wasn't made of any specific spiritual particle as Haschwalth confirmed, it was simple power being transferred to one place to another. And about the last statement, seeing the reaching you did here so far, I'm actually honored.

It didn’t make sense hence the, “huh?”

It actually makes though, I assume someone who already entered in a thread with the Gems would recognize it like you did months ago, so go ahead and answer it.

Cap but okay.

Which one ?

The argument was that lil shouldn’t be able to dodge the light. I proved she could.

So end of the story, the light is slower than Ichigo, who took more time to cross the distance.

You saying it isn’t light doesn’t mean anything here I proved you wrong.

Leo, saying light(natural light btw not magical beams, lol) travel at 100.000 miles per second and assuming a bunch of things unrelated to Bleach is not proof of anything, you just said:''If iS noT ReIShi tHeN WhAT iT's JoV ?'' Seriously though, your concept of proof is very distorted. And Aushwalen is not light lol, it simple looks like light so is called as such the thing is actually a transference of power.

This is cute

No Caption Provided

and all but you’ve yet to provide any counter evidence to my arguments.

Your points can't even be called arguments considering the amount of headcanon and non sense they have, and about this, I did this in the 2nd and 3rd page only for you to ignore and start acting like that was a personal arguing instead of speed arguing and then started repeating the same arguments from the beginning of the 3rd page here, well, the scans are posted, the statements are posted, the amount of feats accomplished after the barriers destruction as well, but hey, how I'm suppose to counter the powers of headcanons with this ?

If appealing to ignorance made you a good debater you would be stellar right now.

You should be proud to be at the 1st rank if that was the case then.

What?

What what ?

I used elementary school algebra and the known speed for light. Are you saying those things aren’t present in the Manga?

The value for Aushwalen's speed is definitely not present in the manga as was already showed here, lol.

The time frame was given, you simply enter that in a formula using the speed of light and basic algebra to figure out the distance.

You can start by showing to me where the time frame of Aushwalen was stated in the Bleach manga.

Is this the first time you’ve seen someone problem solve?

Do I solved any problem for you ?

This is what real debating looks like Jov.

No, this is a real debate:

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/2020-all-star-cav-beerus-emperorthanos-vs-king-tho-2062513/?page=1

This is just a thread where you are reaching putting your fan-fiction in the first place, assuming time frames and distances you know very well you can't prove, while repeating yourself over and over assuming me and several other users aren't actually mocking the level of arguments being brought by you here.

You lost.

No Caption Provided

Now serious question though, do you think we can make this thread reach the 10th page this week ?

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Wot_m8

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@joviolma: I am doing my part to get this to ten pages. You're welcome.

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Saxz

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#174  Edited By Saxz

@quincy-q:

And I keep telling you, the point of using Oken was to break through the barriers and not worry about the friction, In other words he was protected from the friction. If he was going to bull rush the barrier anyway then what was the point of having a key? This is not the first time Oken was used to travel that distance, when the zero squad traveled with that pillar like thing they never experienced any difficulty.

I have asked you this question like 5 times now and you keep dodging the question and attempting mental gymnastics,

where was it stated that breaking through the barrier would slow him down considerably??? The dude literally broke through a barrier in front of us with zero effort,So why do you still insist that somehow barriers gave him trouble and slowed him down.

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Undeckedlion395

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@joviolma: I'd argue 15th page if you guys really push it.

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@saxz: No the Oken PROTECTS from the friction it doesn't erase it. This is one of the many facts you're conveniently ignoring.

It doesn't matter what you feel Kubo gave us context clues use them. Come to me when you find actual evidence that disregards these context clues.

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LeoTheGreatest

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This seems like a poor interpretation of my claims, so nice straw-man fallacy, but I shall not be surprised since it is you who I'm arguing, I didn't said in my answer to you she didn't shoot cuz her Bankai is heavy, I said she was unaware of the creatures origins and their goals and obviously didn't knew what they were and from who they come from and only took a offensive attitude alongside her comrades when the creatures started climbing on her.

I predicted one of your excuses and explained why that doesn’t work that’s not a strawman that’s saving time.

This is rich coming from you though, you have been ignoring on panel scans and putting your headcanon over statements and feats since the beginning to the point several people are calling that out, even assuming Aushwalen is Light speed cuz is called light and since doesn't use Reishi there's no other option that Natural energy, as well you repeating this non sense over and over ignoring the scan explaining it's function still asking:''sO wHAt iT's jOV ?''

You keep posting the lights function as if it matters.

You mean your headcanon they got slower for no reason why falling with the help of gravity(10m per second), they also tagged her with Bankai before she could move as well despite her left hand being fast enough to repel some of them, and the ones who got on their back were tagged by Oh, and the ones falling were also perceived by Rukia, let me guess, you are going to say know they lost speed once they got on her back and they were slower jumping in Seretei.

Dude, she never look to her left, even when she could attack the creatures, I don't know how one can even use that as a point for anything.

See let me guess this straight, the feat of her literally attacking them before they dodge with her empty hand doesn't mean anything, but Soifon not bothering look to the left is a proof she didn't saw them even though she never bothered to do so and was more focused on the ones literally coming at her face ?

She didn't knew what the creatures were as already explained multiple times, everything they knew was that Mimihagi was somehow sucked from SS(She couldn't even knew of his fate and demise as the earthquakes stopped through SS meaning the world was stabilized something that which Mimi was responsible, everything she knew was that the sky suddenly changing color was a doing of the quincy, the creatures were beings she knew nothing and beings she didn't took any attitude to protect herself until they start climbing on her, that's what her friends did as well, they didn't saw the creatures and attacked them, Oh saw the creature climbing on her back and protected her.

No, she simple didn't moved away and din't fired her Bankai, cuz she was unaware of the creatures origins or their purpose, with her empty arm she could even repel them some even falling and Oh could tag the ones that got on her back faster than she could dodge by himself despite being slower than her normal speed, meaning the creatures could always tag her before she could move while she is using Bankai, she simple didn't fired her Bankai on them.

Creatures she never saw before, she couldn't even figure out what they were or who sent them or for what purpose are now comparable to BG9 who was actually a threat and confirmed enemy who stole her Bankai and that tried to kill her ?

Okay stop for a second.

Your argument is that something came down from the Soul Kings Palace in a short time was reacted to by Soifon right?

You do understand that they just got f*cked over by Yhwach 3 times over with the last time being him shooting a torrent of black power down and covering the entire Sereite right?

You understand that she went up there to shoot Yhwach’s veil right?

Yet when it came to another torrent of black power coming down in the form of creatures you’re saying that Soifon despite having her Bankai ready to fire straight at them didn’t fire because she didn’t know what the creatures we despite Yhwach again f*cking them over 3 times over with the last one being another torrent of black power?

Then you try to cover yourself by saying that that’s one scan VS the several of even the lieutenants fighting them?

Despite all that being a set up for Aizens introduction.

The point is that she got blitzed by something coming down from the Soul Palace at an incredible pace as she should. Everything after that isn’t a counter to that they ended up being there for the sole purpose of us getting to see Aizen flex.

No, I said is none of my business if you can't understand what I'm saying, you have been using this logic about:''yOu doN'T maKE seNSe'' for more than one year. And indeed, if you are understanding or not what I'm saying is none of my problems and neither none of my business, if that's the case, you can ignore me and move on from this thread and continue to spread the same things in others as we know will be the case, or continue here arguing with someone that according to you(lol) doesn't make sense.

I mean, it debunks and refutes your senseless logic as well explains using the manga the speed and spiritual tiers as well corrects your poor interpretation of my claims, if you have problem understanding that, is none of my business.

Instead of complaining when I explain that you don’t make sense why don’t you, you know, make sense?

If what you’re trying to say is that Ichigo was using his trancedant power while going down, he wasn’t and I explained that.

#Factsdoesntcareaboutyourfeelings,

If only you listened to this.

Lille who was also inferior to Ichigo fell from that distance faster than him,

Really ? Cuz it seems like that was your intention, specially since you said they killing and handling them was plot, the creatures are simple not strong, neither fast, so is Lille, he is slower than Ichigo who was hurried to arrive at SS when the barriers were activated and yet fell from the Wandreich to SS in a shorter time-frame than him.

Inferior to the Ichigo he almost killed in his base form?

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and Soifon saw the creatures coming as well repealed them alongside several characters.

She got blitzed jov.

Sure Leo, check out this amazing scan I made up, as well the text I made up:''And...regaining the power you lost...from defeating Sosuke Aizen...was to take Reio's life in front of my eyes'' (Ichigo regained the power he lost and that was the power he had during Aizen's fight, he used it to kill Reio, meaning the level he was when accomplishing that was the same as when he fought Aizen)

That’s when he realized Ichigo still had that power within him.

This is when he finally used it.

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As shown when it stunted the likes of Adult Toshiro who was battling Gerard and Uryu who previously embarrassed Ichigo last time he was in the Soul Kings Palace.

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and about the Fem Sternritter, well, Ichigo never had any actual intention to kill them, him playing around with them and screaming for Candice to dodge his Getsuga is a proof he didn't had killing intents towards them except Yhwach. The only Sternritter who ended up putting him a deadly situation was Askin off panel.

Not taking a fight seriously as a trancedant is what he did against Aizen effortlessly parrying his blows, catching his sword slapping away his strongest Kido and overpowering his strongest attack with a single swing.

Not taking a fight seriously as a trancedant isn’t letting one of the weakest sternritters push him back.

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And then only vaping one one her arms with an attack.

Ichigo was playing around with them at a level far below trancendant.

So go ahead, prove it, where's the scan saying is natural light ? You have been saying this non sense since the beginning, if that was the case you should have already brought the scan saying such a thing a long ago don't ?

A scan of someone saying it’s natural isn’t needed. That’s the only thing it could be if it doesn’t have Reitsu the only energy source used by these characters. And he also gave Lille the ability to use a form of Natural light as well so him being able to use natural light isn’t a surprise.

Leo, several people are actually pointing out your non sense here with memes and in Discord, you are the only one assuming that is natural light despite the absence of such statement in the manga, wtf ?

That’s cute a bunch of beta males insulting me without me being present? Why don’t you send me the discord link and then we can all voice chat and see how well your argument holds up then?

It actually makes though, I assume someone who already entered in a thread with the Gems would recognize it like you did months ago, so go ahead and answer it.

I don’t really know about their composition but being a “construct of light” doesn’t make you LS they aren't beams of light like we’re talking about here it’s like saying all of Hal Jordan’s constructs are lightspeed by default.

So end of the story, the light is slower than Ichigo, who took more time to cross the distance.

Ichigo wasn’t going faster than the light.

Leo, saying light(natural light btw not magical beams, lol)

Yhwach has magical energy now? That’s your argument? It went from being nothing to being magical?

travel at 100.000 miles per second and assuming a bunch of things unrelated to Bleach is not proof of anything, you just said:''If iS noT ReIShi tHeN WhAT iT's JoV ?'' Seriously though, your concept of proof is very distorted. And Aushwalen is not light lol, it simple looks like light so is called as such the thing is actually a transference of power.

Everyone refers to it as light but it isn’t light because it’s a transfer of power yet it’s in the form of light which isn’t reishi based, the main power in bleach.

See how dumb that sounds? Specifically being called “a form of natural light“ isn’t necessary because that’s the only thing it can be.

The value for Aushwalen's speed is definitely not present in the manga as was already showed here, lol.

Yet it was traveling a distance that took mhs characters hours to cross in mere seconds and tagging a MHS character who started while the beam was still miles away.

Do I solved any problem for you ?

Nope.

No, this is a real debate:

Yeah that’s an instance of good debaters properly debating using minimal fallacies and good structure.

When I said real debating I was talking about what I did. Not this thread thread as a whole and not including you.

This is just a thread where you are reaching putting your fan-fiction in the first place, assuming time frames and distances you know very well you can't prove,

You called Yhwach’s beams “nothing” and “magic” i’m certainly not the one including fanfictions here. And the time frame was given i simply used that to calculate the distance. I did prove it unless you consider everything i’m typing “nothing” like you did with the Auswhalen.

while repeating yourself over and over assuming me and several other users aren't actually mocking the level of arguments being brought by you here.

I’m not assuming a couple of cucks aren’t insulting me. Send that link and we’ll talk.

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GodGate

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Shunsui blitzes.

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JOVIOLMA

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I predicted one of your excuses and explained why that doesn’t work that’s not a strawman that’s saving time.

Some more of your fan-fictions again, this time, applied for your opponent's words huh ? Well, sadly for ya, I never had any intention to claim Soi only didn't fired cuz of her Bankai weight so it just makes you seems like someone pulling things from no where and arguments your opponent didn't used, no Leo, you acted like a Straw-m an, use the excuse that you predicted me is actually very bad and doesn't help in your situation it would have been better to ignore this and move on on this topic than come with this one.

You keep posting the lights function as if it matters.

Lol
Lol
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Okay stop for a second.

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Your argument is that something came down from the Soul Kings Palace in a short time was reacted to by Soifon right?

Not my original point, I'm saying something was clearly coming from the SKP to Seretei and clearly was perceived by Soifon, she and her comrades only acted as the creatures were a threat or something that could warm them when the creatures started attacking them, and even by not changing their ways of locomotion, they were tagged, perceived and killed multiple times despite crossing a distance it took TS hours to cross.

You do understand that they just got f*cked over by Yhwach 3 times over with the last time being him shooting a torrent of black power down and covering the entire Sereite right?

Not seeing what you are saying here, are you suggesting somehow they already saw Yhwach doing this or that he fought the ones present them and beat them somehow ? Well, if that's the case no one but Yamamoto and Kenny had fought Yhwach, only his subordinates fought against SS and so did Soifon, everything they knew(Not everyone knew and understood) was that the quincies were likely the ones responsible for the suddenly change in the sky, the black creatures had no way to be identified as such just because they are one eyed beasts walking in group.

You understand that she went up there to shoot Yhwach’s veil right?

She did go up there to break the Canopy, not sure what this would prove anything regarding the black creatures.

Yet when it came to another torrent of black power coming down in the form of creatures you’re saying that Soifon despite having her Bankai ready to fire straight at them didn’t fire because she didn’t know what the creatures we despite Yhwach again f*cking them over 3 times over with the last one being another torrent of black power?

The color of one's energy has absolutely nothing to do with their powers or the user itself(Ichigo being a good proof for firing blasts with at least 2 different colors-Black red, red and blue- and Ichigo already firing several light like blasts, she didn't even knew that the black sky was Yhwach's doing, she thought it was one of the quincies's doings, not naming anyone even Yhwach in particular.

Then you try to cover yourself by saying that that’s one scan VS the several of even the lieutenants fighting them?

Straw-man, I'm using the point you brought of the creatures being treated as fodder as plot as they shouldn't be compared with anyone using the amount of feats accomplished several times in the same page by the fodders to refute this:''If Kubo had any intention to make them sounds powerful, he would make it, he would make a situation where they were being overwhelmed they Aizen comes and saves the day showing his power, and not show how useless and weak the creatures are, in all honest, considering Soifon was only ''blitzed'' once, while the creatures were killed and tagged several times, it seems more legit to assume they blitzing her was plot than assume they killing them was.'' ''Really ? Cuz it seems like that was your intention, specially since you said they killing and handling them was plot, the creatures are simple not strong, neither fast, so is Lille, he is slower than Ichigo who was hurried to arrive at SS when the barriers were activated and yet fell from the Wandreich to SS in a shorter time-frame than him.''

Despite all that being a set up for Aizens introduction.

There are better ways to introduce Aizen than making him killed fodder, if it was Kubo intention to make it seems like the creatures were anything special in power, he would draw the creatures wiping the floor with everyone and not make it sounds like their only threat were their quantities, only to be killed effortless by Aizen's SC.

The point is that she got blitzed by something coming down from the Soul Palace at an incredible pace as she should.

She seems to be able to react to the creatures very well, as well her comrades, the creatures are also visible for even people like Rukia and Shunsui even had time to talk before the creatures even fall despite they being slower than Ichigo.

Everything after that isn’t a counter to that they ended up being there for the sole purpose of us getting to see Aizen flex.

That's exactly what you said a moment ago though, using the plot thing and Aizen as some excuse is not that good for ya I would say:'' I really would love if you prove it was plot, the creatures were never treated as a big deal or something impressive in power or in any regard, they were just black creatures that gave trouble to the Shinigami due to their quantity not their power, only to be killed by Aizen effortless with his SC.'' As well the speed thing, which was already addressed in my points and tried to be refuted as using plot as a response, and Aizen's flex was so stupidly weak that not even could affect or put weight on fodders, Kubo just wanted to end the history with Aizen solving the thing, by crushing them and surprise everyone with his return.

Instead of complaining when I explain that you don’t make sense why don’t you, you know, make sense?

I'm not complaining, only explaining to you how that's not my business for you to understand or not, and we both know you will only ''understand'' something if one agrees with you, for example, I could say any rubbish here and say in the end that Aushwalen is light speed and you would agree with me if I said so.

If what you’re trying to say is that Ichigo was using his trancedant power while going down, he wasn’t and I explained that.

He was always comparable to his Dangai version in his TS form, this was clearly stated by Yhwach, and you didn't actually explained anything though, you just said he wasn't, which is not an actual argument, and even on the same thing you outright stated that he was using Transcendent power against Yhwach but complained that if he was a transcendent he would wipe the floor with the Fems even though he had no killing intention against them.

If only you listened to this.

That the facts don't care about your feelings ?

Inferior to the Ichigo he almost killed in his base form?

Ichigo seems very fine in there, more worried about Uryu's choices than the arrow on his hand. If you are talking about him bleeding breaking the arrow, that would be just some low end giving the massive level he possessed at that time.

She got blitzed jov.

No, she didn't attacked them and repealed them alongside several characters, this was already showed several times.

That’s when he realized Ichigo still had that power within him.

Quoting you: ''You made that up'', he never realized anything about Ichigo had that power hidden within him, he stated the power he used to beat Aizen and regained it once more was to kill Reio, meaning his level to accomplish such was the level of Dangai:''And...regaining the power you lost...from defeating Sosuke Aizen...was to take Reio's life in front of my eyes(The power used to defeat Aizen and regained it once more was to kill Reio)'', not:' And...regaining the power you lost and hiding it within you...from defeating Sosuke Aizen...was to take Reio's life in front of my eyes''

That’s when he realized Ichigo still had that power within him.

This is when he finally used it.

He always used it, he used it to kill Reio, he was worried to arrive at Seretei and was going at massive speeds to save the world, he wouldn't hold back to accomplishing such specially giving the situations.

As shown when it stunted the likes of Adult Toshiro who was battling Gerard and Uryu who previously embarrassed Ichigo last time he was in the Soul Kings Palace.

Uryu never embarrassed Ichigo in anyway, he never had any intention to kill him or something like that, he wanted to know his reasons and Uryu didn't wanted to give him the answers, if you consider the idea of breaking the ground to make Ichigo fall as embarrass someone, you also have very weird view regarding the concept of embarrass someone, and Ichigo releasing more of his Reiatsu to fight Yhwach to the point it gets visible is not a proof of him not being a transcendent, only that during all those fights he had till there didn't made him going all out yet(Ichigo only held back briefly once he entered HoS to defeat Yhwach to caught him off-guard due to his overconfidence in not using the Almighty) it doesn't changes the fact his power was comparable to the one used to fight Aizen as it was confirmed.

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''Uryu who previously embarrassed Ichigo''

Not taking a fight seriously as a trancedant is what he did against Aizen effortlessly parrying his blows, catching his sword slapping away his strongest Kido and overpowering his strongest attack with a single swing.

The same Aizen who was an actual threat to everyone but him as far he knew ? Why you are comparing with fodders that were not transcendent and who treated 5 Gigajoules as something impressive ? Ichigo screaming Candice to dodge his Getsuga and merely throwing them around instead of slicing them despite beings leagues faster than them was a proof he never actually took them seriously neither had any killing intentions towards them.

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Not taking a fight seriously as a trancedant isn’t letting one of the weakest sternritters push him back.

Why him being pushed back is a bad thing, lmao, he is doing that on his own, and Candice is not even Mountain level a tier we know very well Ichigo far surpassed at that point, she can barely release the same energy as lightnings produce, if you are intent to lowball TS level with his, I would say is not enough though.

And then only vaping one one her arms with an attack.

Ichigo was playing around with them at a level far below trancendant.

He never wanted to kill any of them, so only her arm detonating is not that bad, and considering he didn't wanted to kill them, I could actually in a certain way agree with you he didn't used the transcendent power during that fight though not actually one disagreement regarding this, although he do is confirmed to use it during the Yhwach fight VS Co to kill Reio.

A scan of someone saying it’s natural isn’t needed.

Know what is actually needed ?

  • Statement from any official source regarding the Beam as Light speed(Kizaru possess his own statement and confirmation from databooks saying he fires and spam attacks at the speed of light)
  • Light attacks in fiction are not Light speed unless stated or confirmed by any official source or character to be or unless they use natural elements or machines(Photons, electromagnetic radiation and gravitational waves, technological lasers, etc. all travel at the speed of light)
  • There is nothing proving that the technique use Natural Light to make a technique that travels at Light speed.

That’s the only thing it could be if it doesn’t have Reitsu the only energy source used by these characters.

Reishi, the scan you keep ignoring outright states that they don't use Reishi, the tree of life doesn't absorb others's Reiatsu, it only uses the user's to bear fruits and the trees consume Reishi, this was clearly explained.

And he also gave Lille the ability to use a form of Natural light as well so him being able to use natural light isn’t a surprise.

Lille's light is not natural in any form, he emanates from his body a so called Light of God, which only is reflected due to the sword's special properties of doing so, you made that up once more, why would Lille for magical reason be fast as Yhwach in any reason ? The powers the Sternritter awaken btw are powers achieved by receiving Yhwach's power upon them and unlocking a new ability, he is not giving them an ability he already wields within himself, he bestowed power upon Lille first than the other ones and he unlocked his X-Axis, Yhwach losing to Yamamoto despite the later having no actual forms of counters to the X-Axis, Balance, Antithesis, Visionary, The Heat(Which would give Yhwach a upper hand over the fight) is a proof he didn't wielded them in any point of his life, thought you and @azureus already argued about that(Do you have the link for the thread ? )

That’s cute a bunch of beta males insulting me without me being present?

No one is actually insulting you there though, at least not me.

Why don’t you send me the discord link and then we can all voice chat and see how well your argument holds up then?

I can't do so, and even if I could I wouldn't, we seem to be able to resolve this pretty well here, perhaps Shirso can do it for ya as he is the group's ADM, so you can ask him for it although I'm dubious he would accept you there.

I don’t really know about their composition but being a “construct of light” doesn’t make you LS they aren't beams of light

Neither is Aushwalen lmao, is just a transference of power that is called as such cuz it looks like one.

like we’re talking about here it’s like saying all of Hal Jordan’s constructs are lightspeed by default.

?

Ichigo wasn’t going faster than the light.

Glad we agree he is not faster than Light, he is faster than Aushwalen that's it though for moving so fast the Fems can't even seeing him moving casually, don't see how this changes the fact he is superior to anyone in that arc in TS form not named Shikai Kenny, Gerard and above. And people inferior to it fell from that distance more quickly.

Yhwach has magical energy now? That’s your argument? It went from being nothing to being magical?

What do you mean ? I call any energy that's not natural(Be it chakra, cosmo or reiatsu and reishi) Magical as they are not normal in nature(Not necessarily cuz I believe they are magic), no attack named Light is light speed from it as the source used is a natural one, I would use this for any manga/anime unless proved otherwise with statements.

Everyone refers to it as light but it isn’t light because it’s a transfer of power

''We did it boys, Leo finally got it''

yet it’s in the form of light which isn’t reishi based, the main power in bleach.

Being in the form of light doesn't make it light speed, lol, Reishi is also not necessarily the main power in Bleach, dunno where you pulled that one from, do you just forgot about the existence of Reiatsu and the fact Yhwach's Aushwalen works by him taking it back the power he gave to resurrect others ?

See how dumb that sounds?

Lol. I would say it's better than assume Aushwalen is natural light cuz is a transference of power.

Specifically being called “a form of natural light“ isn’t necessary because that’s the only thing it can be.

Aushwalen was never called as such, with the exceptions of the pages we saw it from distant characters where it assumes a straight pattern, Aushwalen was show to bend and even produce wave like effects multiple times something natural light doesn't do, meaning it doesn't behave in any form like Natural light.

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Yet it was traveling a distance that took mhs characters hours to cross in mere seconds and tagging a MHS character who started while the beam was still miles away.

The same character that blitzed the person who dodged the Aushwalen, yeah no, Aushwalen is simple slower than Ichigo though, end of the story, and Lilo was never tagged by Aushwalen she dodged it and outright stated it, you have been saying this non sense over and over and I asked you multiple times:''Bring the MANGA scan of Aushwalen's beams distance from each other, bring the timeframe in which each other was fired, and bring the proof when Lilo dodged the beams were miles away from that, not a random math problem expecting anyone to accept that like a proof of anything.

''That light sucks our power even if we're not directly hit by it... ? ''
''That light sucks our power even if we're not directly hit by it... ? ''

Nope.

So moot question.

Yeah that’s an instance of good debaters properly debating using minimal fallacies and good structure.

Which you should do here as well though. I mean, if you are so confident you can proof Aushwalen is Light speed, why don't create a thread or blog and tag several users including and try to prove your points for them as they likely will not accept you in Discord server but will not bother to debate you here ?

When I said real debating I was talking about what I did.

Like bringing math problems thinking this is a proof for Bleach's Aushwalen distance and timeframe from each other, if you call that a good debate, I really don't wanna know what you would call a bad one.

Not this thread thread as a whole and not including you.

I actually think I'm doing okay.

You called Yhwach’s beams “nothing” and “magic” i’m certainly not the one including fanfictions here.

Never called they nothing(If I did, I admit I expressed myself wrong in there), I said they were not made of anything in special and are not natural light but a transference of power in the same sentence, and Reiatsu falls under the magic category under normal circumstances as magic is anything that uses mysterious or supernatural forces, which would fall under this category by RL logic given such a things are not possible or absent IRL, hope you got it :)

And the time frame was given i simply used that to calculate the distance. I did prove it unless you consider everything i’m typing “nothing” like you did with the Auswhalen.

No time frame was giving, you pulled a random math text, how can one assume that serves as a time frame to be honest is beyond me, and once more prove is a word you shouldn't use as so far, you didn't proved anything, this actually seems like 3 pages of you reaching and repeating yourself over and over, like was caught by Requiem

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I’m not assuming a couple of cucks aren’t insulting me.

Lmao, what was that for ?

Send that link and we’ll talk.

Why you ignored my last question Leo :( ? Do you think we can make this thread reach the 10th page this week ?

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I don‘t wanna hear shit excuses send that link.

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JOVIOLMA

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Floridaman29

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Saxz

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@quincy-q:

There! You dodged the question again, WHERE WAS IT STATED THAT THE FRICTION SLOWED HIM DOWN????

it's a simple question, but I am loving the fact that you are jumping through hoops.

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Undeckedlion395

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God I love this thread.

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Quincy-Q

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@saxz: Use you're brain dude.

1.) He had to break through it.

2.) It was stated that the friction would kill him without protect.

How was it not slowing him down? Like are you dumb or can you read?

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Saxz

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@quincy-q:

LMAO edgy much???

so basically what I am getting is you have no answer and you devolve into salty insults and falsities.

1. Yes he had to break through it, considering he had the kings key he must have done it with zero to little effort,like he did with the barriers literally shown on panel.

2. The friction wasn't stated to be able to kill him, that's false I don't know where you got that, most of the clothes got vaped by Candice's arrow, are you assuming clothes >>> Ichigo's durability. This is where you- how did you put it? - use your brain and not come up with baseless assumptions. I mean I could also diminish every speed feat in friction and say air friction slows them down and then call it "using my brain".

WHERE WAS IT STATED THAT THE FRICTION SLOWED HIM DOWN????

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#188  Edited By WhatIsWritten

@saxz: thats not even relevant, we still see ichigo with speed lines and creating mach cones on his way down when he takes a call from urahara

People on this site like to pretend like the 72 barriers made him move at like mach 0.00001 or some shit cuz muh friction

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JOVIOLMA

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A debate regarding the barriers would be actually cool, too bad no fodder created yet.

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Nervedamage

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Undre

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#191  Edited By Undre

"Barries slowing ichigo down". Pure lies.

In the this scan the barrier opens passively and ichigo has sonic bombs behind him. How is that slowing him down

"The distance is unquantifiable"

The litterly gives a distances and time not only that ichigos using shunpo..

How fast is ichigos shunpo? Easy we see characters like ichibie travel 2500 miles in an instant. Thats about mach 10,000+. Ichigos shunpo should be about the same. That being said ichigo got to SS in 12 hours. So he went about 1 billion miles. Because mach 10k is about 9 or 10 million miles an hour. Keep in mind ichigos travel speed in shikia is mach 10000 but his reaction speed can be FTL plus.

But that would makeh the Mimihagi 1000x Ftl considering it travelled that distance in seconds. So we can just assume ichigo was constantly going mach 1000 or so. And you might get a more reasonable calc

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Saxz

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#192  Edited By Saxz

@undre:

Oh my god! don't ruin things Undre. Have you ever heard of the word - LOW-END

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UltimateSage

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this thread tho......lol

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Undre

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@saxz: nahh whats the end

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Quincy-Q

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@saxz: Use your context clues, I only got "Edgey" because you got whiny.

1.) It's stated word for word that the friction would kill him. And he would need something to protect him from it not stop it. Look up what friction is bud.

2.) It was stated word for word he had to break through. Meaning he had to force his way through again proving they're obstacles for him.

It doesn't have to say it slowed him down when Kubo gave us all the details which clearly state he was going against obstacles.

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Quincy-Q

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@saxz: @whatiswritten: post 191 proves my point. If you want to believe Ichigo went full speed or anywhere close to it for a constant 9 hours show me a couple other MFTL feats for Yhwach or Ichigo considering he can keep up with Yhwach. If not it's an outlier or you could just admit you don't have all the facts therefore you can't make a correct calculation. It's up to you because I'm not wasting any more time with people who can't see context or put it together.

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WhatIsWritten

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@quincy-q said:

@saxz: @whatiswritten: post 191 proves my point. If you want to believe Ichigo went full speed or anywhere close to it for a constant 9 hours show me a couple other MFTL feats for Yhwach or Ichigo considering he can keep up with Yhwach. If not it's an outlier or you could just admit you don't have all the facts therefore you can't make a correct calculation. It's up to you because I'm not wasting any more time with people who can't see context or put it together.

First off, when did I ever call ichigo MFTL?

Secondly, even if I did, how does that relate to the journey he travelled?

thirdly, even if I did call ichigo MFTL or whatever, why do I have to post more feats of it happening for it to be his speed?