Shounen Tournament of Power Round One: Defiant_Will's Team vs Maestromage's Team

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defiant_will

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#1  Edited By defiant_will

Shounen Tournament of Power

Team Defiance (@defiant_will)

No Caption Provided

Perks

  • Soul Attack Immunity (4)
  • No Friendly Fire (5)
  • Perfect Teamwork (5)
  • Basic Knowledge (5)
  • 1 Hour of Prep (1)

Champions of the Sun (@maestromage)

No Caption Provided

Perks:

  • Perfect teamwork (5)
  • No friendly fire (5)
  • Mind Link (2)
  • Basic Knowledge (5)
  • Teleportation for Sasuke (3)

Tag Team Death Match

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This scenario is simple. Both teams are participating in a typical Shounen fighting tournament, and it is now the final round. The winning team will be decided by a good old fashioned 2v2 tag team fight. Both teams must choose two of their members to fight against one another. This is a fight to the death.

Rules

  • Everyone is In Character and Serious, but any morals that prevent someone from killing are disregarded
  • No BFR
  • Standard Gear
  • Fighters Start 50 Feet Apart
  • Fight Takes Place on Grand Magic Games Arena (No Civilians)

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The Match Up

Aokiji and Hashirama vs EMS Sasuke and Larcade
Aokiji and Hashirama vs EMS Sasuke and Larcade

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HigherPower

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#3  Edited By HigherPower

Time to start this... and end it.

The Ultimate Presage: Arrival of the First

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Power

Hashirama Senju was the patriarchal co-founder of the Hidden Leaf Village and then-leader of the Senju clan. He was widely recognized as the "God of Shinobi" for his unrivaled combat prowess and legacy; which includes the establishment of the most powerful village in the world, following the union of the Uchiha and Senju clan.

In order to fully appreciate the scope of his ability, I deemed it necessary to contextualize his standing within Naruto at large. Hashirama debuted during the Konoha Crush arc when Orochimaru (who infiltrated the leaf as Kazekage, a leader of another foreign nation invited to spectate the Chunin Exams) used a forbidden technique to reanimate corpses that were used as vessels for him and the Second Hokage (his brother Tobirama), in the midst of his fight with the Third Hokage, Sarutobi (the Second's disciple). They were immediately recognized by an Anbu member who explained they were hailed as "Ultimate Shinobi" (ninja):

Naruto #118
Naruto #118

That technique, Edotensei, was incomplete at the time and both Hashi and Tobirama were operating on vestiges of their power, so there isn't anything feat-wise worthy of note. But it does serve as the first time we get a glimpse at his status and reputation, even among the Hokage. Hashirama's hype grew further during Madara's battle with the Five Kage, where Kabuto stated that there was not a single living Shinobi who was as powerful as him, and that it was so great it was regarded as myth/legend in the same vein as the Sage of Six Paths:

Naruto #575
Naruto #575

During the Kage Summit, it was revealed that Madara was the only other non-Jinchuruki who was able to gain true control of the Tailed Beasts (ch. 458). This is pretty ridiculous, because Madara used the cheat code that is Sharingan genjutsu. Meaning Hashirama's power by it's lonesome is a cut above the Tailed Beasts, who can effortlessly vaporize entire mountains with the most basic attacks (ch. 571).

So Hashirama by direct implication already far outstrips multi-mountain level destructive power, as the energy needed to vaporize a single mountain would reduce several mountains to gravel. It takes around three gigajoules of TNT just to vaporize a human being, which is enough to melt 5000 pounds of steel or stimulate a lightning bolt... as you can imagine, no human weighs anywhere near 5000 pounds or is as remotely durable as steel.

But it doesn't stop there. Like I said, Madara used genjutsu while Hashirama subdued Kurama in battle (ch. 568), made evident by his injuries and stating he wouldn't allow Kurama to run loose. The Tailed Beast themselves are already creatures of fantastical power, and Kurama at 50% of his own power was capable of overpowering the combined attack of five others (ch. 571). Kurama since way back was introduced as a monster of unbelievable power, being able to raise tsunamis with a single swipe of his tail (ch. 1). Tsunamis are resultant from underwater Earthquakes which carry a large quantity of energy. And if we're talking just raw energy, The Nine-Tails chakra could even be felt countries away by people who don't have energy sensing powers (616).

That's pretty crazy.

The reason I've put a lot of emphasis on Kurama and The Tailed Beast isn't simply because Hashirama directly scales to just them. No, even in base he was actually capable of holding his own against a Kurama clad in Susanoo armor while possessed by Madara Uchiha. The reason why Madara even used Kurama is because he was outright inferior to Hashirama, as he blatantly admitted in chapter 624...

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...and was made very apparent in that chapter with Madara and Hashi fighting countless times and Hashirama never tasting defeat once. Their war concluded in a very pivotal moment with Madara at Hashirama's complete mercy.

Even with Kurama, Madara was ultimately unable to defeat Hashirama. But the feats showcased in that encounter were astounding even before Hashirama used Sage Mode. For starters his Wood Dragon was able to restrain Kurama physically (the guy who can incite tsunami's with the shock-waves of his tail swipes, something well above mountain level), with Madara using Susanoo to escape and the explosion from a TBB destroying some of the area.

Naruto #620
Naruto #620

Hashirama's Golem was the one that caught the TBB like a tennis ball and punched Kurama in the face with it, detonating the TBB, the explosion of which the Golem no-sold.

Naruto #620
Naruto #620

The explosion was mountain vaporizing similar to the TBB Naruto deflected.

Naruto #621
Naruto #621

So needless to say, very impressive. But not as impressive as the Golem catching a Susanoo blade swing from Kurama, neutralizing the force, despite their air pressure from his swings alone being capable of severing six mountains in half in one-fell swoop, launched their upper sections (hundreds of millions of tons of stone) into the air from the force:

Naruto #621
Naruto #621

There is such unwavering consistency, such immaculate boldness, and such clear intent behind these multitude of feats... This first batch of feats display such a dominant multi-mountain level destructive capacity... but it's far from the extent of Hashirama's power.

We may never know the true extent of it in reality. But we do know that it's even greater than BM Naruto's power, as Hashi stated that even BM Naruto only had almost as much chakra as him.

Naruto #644
Naruto #644

This is mind-blowing as chakra pools denote both stamina and power. For the former, Naruto distributed his chakra among 50,000 shinobi to protect them from a the Ten Tail's Tenpechi (629), and for the latter, Naruto with the help of Gyuki created explosions that dwarf mountain ranges.

Naruto #609
Naruto #609

On top of Hashirama having greater chakra than Naruto in spite of this, he himself was not at full power, as per Tobirama's own admission, (the creator of Edotensei) they were only revived at only close to their their original power (ch. 620).

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Tobirama's statement is something Ive rarely, if ever, see people mentioning when presenting the above feats. So Hashirama's true power is even greater still than everything you've seen from Naruto and Kurama. Meaning he is at the very limits of power this tourney allows.

He may be nerfed to just his base form here, but as far as this "power" section goes, I think I've shown Hashirama to be quite the formidable threat and capable of causing problems for your team.

Versatility

Hashirama actually is quite versatile contrary to popular belief. His kekkai genkai of Wood Release isn't all that he can do, but even that ability has multiple applications and uses in combat. I'll first discuss Hashi's lesser known abilities and how they'll play a role here.

Genjutsu

Hashirama is in possession of a very broken and extremely useful genjutsu technique called the Art of Infinite Darkness. It plunges the victims visual perception and field of sight into a state of complete pitch-black and endless darkness. It makes both Hashirama, his teammates (Tobi and Orochimaru in that case) and the entire battlefield completely invisible in effect, and they are unable to be immediately located even by characters with energy signature detecting abilities like Sarutobi was.

Naruto #122
Naruto #122

Sarutobi couldn't immediately locate them (evident by his getting struck several times unprepared) despite the fact he could literally sense their spirits when Orochimaru first raised them.

Naruto #117
Naruto #117

Regeneration

There isn't a more qualified person to speak on Hashirama's abilities than someone like Madara, who at one point fought him everyday of his life for years. And upon seeing Tsunade's healing ability close a wound of impaling, Madara directly compared it to Hashirama's, obviously showing that Hashirama has enhanced healing as well.

Naruto #578
Naruto #578

Furthermore, according to Madara, her medical ninjutsu doesn't even come close to his (576).

Wood Release

Hashirama has a few techniques with Wood Release that will play a major role here.

Deep Forest Emergence

The first is his popular Deep Forest Emergence that allows him to grow instantaneous woodlands from virtually any surface.

Naruto #120
Naruto #120

Deep Forest Bloom

Next are the "death pollen flowers", Deep Forest Bloom. Using this technique following Deep Forest Emergence, Hashirama can release a poisonous pollen into the air that would knock out any person with just one whiff.

Naruto #575

Constructs

After that are his constructs such as the Dragon and Golem whose prowess you've already witnessed.

Wood Clones

And finally there are his Wood Clones. Madara using Hashirama's abilities was able to create 25 (5 for each of the Gokage) and I don't doubt that Hashirama would be capable of replicating the same feat.

So now that I've laid out his abilities, let's see how they'll be used to crush you, though you've probably already guessed it by now...

Speed

Hashirama is likely the fastest character here. Both in terms of reactions and being able to cast jutsu. He was capable of tracking Kurama's Tailed Beast Bomb as it was flying towards him and erect several Rashomon Gates to block the attack, null it's force and change the trajectory.

No Caption Provided

The speed of the beast bomb was made apparent by how quickly it crossed the sea and reached the other shore.

The total area of the sea in question is easily several times larger than multiple mountain ranges, based on the first panel of the third scan (which only depicts part of it). Mountain ranges vary in length but on average they're dozens of miles. I'm not sure how necessary a "calc" would be (if you can even call it that), because bottom line, is that this feat is quad mach, and that's the speed of Kurama's TBB projectile after it's trajectory was changed by Hashirama's Rashomon Gates meaning it was slowed down.

12 miles is extremely small for a mountain range, and I can't picture one of that size being able to hold more than a couple of mountains. On the other hand, from an aerial perspective we can count at least several dozen mountains on the shore where Kurama/ Madara fought Hashi.

No Caption Provided

Scans like this actually mirror real world geography and appear similar to aerial photos of arctic mountain ranges, where each tiny ridge and bump is a mountain.

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^ Though that is a bit of an extreme example, as that mountain range is easily tens of thousands of miles in area. Honestly, I think this is the most solid calc for the feat.

Prep and Strat

The strategy is simple.

Possessing basic knowledge on who you are and what you may do, Hashirama will proceed with the following plan.

Step 1: Deep Forest Emergence. Turn the entire battlefield into a thick woodland forest.

Step 2: Deep Forest Bloom. Sprout flowers that releases poisonous pollen which incapacitate anyone who takes a single breath.

Step 3: Create 24 Wood Clones, 12 for each member of your team that you send out here. He doesn't know who they are, but he knows it's a 2v2 tournament.

Step 4: The Art of Infinite Darkness. He does this to make himself, his teammate, his clones, his constructs, and the flowers and pollen all completely invisible and undetectable to you.

How This Battle Will Go

As soon as the match starts, you can't see anything. You take a breath. You black out. Then you never wake up, because you would have been killed.

The end :)

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good post

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#5  Edited By defiant_will

Alright, I suppose it is my turn. Vulcan did a damn good job of setting the stage for our victory, and with the added abilities of Aokiji, our victory is practically cemented in stone:

Opener | The Blue Pheasant

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I am going to be honest: Aokiji isn't exactly swimming in feats. However, the few feats he does have are some of the best in the One Piece verse and should be more than enough to make him a significant threat to the opposition. The danger of Aokiji comes not from his physical abilities (which are still impressive in their own right), but from his Devil Fruit abilities afforded to him by the Hie Hie No Mi. This allows him to create, become and control ice. The most dangerous application of this power comes in the form of his infamous flash freeze.

The Flash Freeze

This is probably Aokiji's most used attack, and for good reason. Aokiji's flash freezing potency is absurd and one would need damn good feats to overcome it. Aokiji can casually freeze a large stretch of ocean in an instant. When breaking down this feat, it becomes crazy impressive:

First off, Aokiji's range with his flash freeze was such that it expanded past the horizon in all directions and covered the distance between islands so that Tonjit could travel between them. In fact, Aokiji helped Tonjit get to the third island, which means Aokiji's flash freeze covered a multi island distance. His ice covered dozens of kilometers in an instant, and it wasn't just a straight line either, making it even more impressive. Besides the speed of this feat, the freezing potency is also insane. Aokiji said the ice would not melt for a week, which is actually very cold. For reference, dry ice (one of the coldest substances know to man), completely sublimates in about 24 hours, even when stored in a freezer.

In that same arc, Aokiji actually had another, criminally underrated flash freezing feat where he made an ice blade out of grass.

To make a streamlined blade of that shape out of thrown grass, Aokiji would have had to have frozen the air in between said grass. For reference, the freezing temperature of oxygen is less than -218.8 degrees Celsius. To put that into perspective, Absolute Zero is said to be around -273.15 degrees Celsius.

On the topic of the coldness of Aokiji's ice, it is such that it isn't melted by Ace's fire.

No Caption Provided

For reference, Ace's passive heat can stop a snow island from snowing for an entire day. This feat has been calced numerous times and comes in with yields of city level heat as the bare minimum. And that's just Ace's mere presence on the island.

Then there is Aokiji's feat of flash freezing Doflamingo. While pretty standard in freezing potency, the speed of said flash freeze couldn't have been more impressive.

Aokiji froze Doflamingo before he could move his hand a few inches to kill Smoker. Bare in mind that Doffy is a solidly MHS character, with feats like moving FTE to Luffy. Luffy, for the record, has quad mach reaction speeds based on the Punk Hazard feat. Even if you disregard that scaling, Doflamingo has reacted to and sliced in half a point blank meteorite. Aokiji flash freezing him and a large swath of an island before Doflamingo could move his hand a few inches is also solidly quad mach. And bare in mind, this was a casual Aokiji.

Logia Intangibility

On the defensive side of the spectrum is Aokiji's elemental intangibility. Essentially, Aokiji can turn into ice which allows him to reform if he is broken or shattered. Without Haki, there are very few ways to tax this ability barring elemental counters.

Here he reforms from being shattered by Nico Robin:

And here he does the same after being shattered by Whitebeard:

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What's more is that Aokiji can flash freeze anyone who attacks him. This happened to Zoro, Sanji, and Luffy:

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So CQC is a no go and without Haki, there are very few ways to hurt, let alone kill Aokiji with this ability in mind.

Gameplan

So how does this battle go? Larcade and Sasuke fall victim to Hashirama's pollen and Genjutsu, which gives Aokiji the opening he needs to flash freeze them and shatter them. For the record, shattering someone while frozen does in fact kill them, as confirmed by Aokiji himself:

No Caption Provided

I will wait to see what Sasuke and Larcade bring to the table before saying anything else, but for now, I feel like this Hashirama/Aokiji combo is enough to cement them the victory.

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#6  Edited By Streak619

Strategy rebuttals

In this section, I'm going to be rebuting Vulcan's strategy, step by step;

The strategy is simple.

Possessing basic knowledge on who you are and what you may do, Hashirama will proceed with the following plan.

Step 1: Deep Forest Emergence. Turn the entire battlefield into a thick woodland forest.

Step 2: Deep Forest Bloom. Sprout flowers that releases poisonous pollen which incapacitate anyone who takes a single breath.

Step 3: Create 24 Wood Clones, 12 for each member of your team that you send out here. He doesn't know who they are, but he knows it's a 2v2 tournament.

Step 4: The Art of Infinite Darkness. He does this to make himself, his teammate, his clones, his constructs, and the flowers and pollen all completely invisible and undetectable to you.

The biggest problem I have with this strategy is its discountance of in-character tendencies of Hashirama. Specifically two points in particular, for starters;

Step 2: Deep Forest Bloom. Sprout flowers that releases poisonous pollen which incapacitate anyone who takes a single breath.

Hashirama has never used Deep Forest Flower Bloom on panel ever

It's blatantly nowhere near in-character for him to use it. Even the notion that he will use it at all during combat, is highly doubtful, but you go one step further and say he will use it during prep, which is even further unsubstantiated. The evidence needed to confidenty say he will use Flower Bloom, that too during prep to trap his opponents is simply lacking, imo.

There is also no evidence that Hasjirama isn't affected by the pollen either.

Step 4: The Art of Infinite Darkness. He does this to make himself, his teammate, his clones, his constructs, and the flowers and pollen all completely invisible and undetectable to you.

Hashirama has used genjutsu once, while bloodlusted and morals off under mind control with his personality completely supressed. Do I need to even say it? It's the literal definition of OOC. The idea he will use genjutsu IC? That too during prep? That's frankly an asinine assertion, if I may be so bold, with absolutely no evidence to support it, and plenty to support the contrary. The two essential pieces for your strat, pollen and genjutsu, are highly OOC moves that Hashirama would never utilise, especially in the way you say he will.

Another aspect of your strat I problem with are the assumptions that

  1. Hashirama is capable of thinking up an elaborate strategy like this.
  2. Hashirama would lay traps on a battlefield before the battle begins in-character.

Both of these are far-fetched, at best.Hashirama does not have the analytical intelligence, far-sightedness nor the cunningness to think up and employ a elaborate strategy utilizing his abilities in the most effective and underhanded way possible to attain victory.

He is a simple, idealistic, short-sighted numbskull who would've led to Konoha to ruin if it weren't for the succeeding hokages. The strategy you have dwscribed is something people like Shikamaru, Kakashi, Tobirama, Itachi, hell even Sasuke might come up with.

But Hashirama "I taught my 5 year old granddaughter to gamble" Senju?

No Caption Provided

No, just no.

Delving into Sasuke

In this section I'll be going into Sasuke's abilities and feats, atleast those which will be relevant in this scenario. To begin with;

Sharingan

Sharingan is a special eye that is genetically restricted to the Uchiha clan. The eye grants the user three basic abilities. It grants the user immense enhanced overall kinetic vision, perception speed and precog:

Naruto chapter 230

It also allows him to cast genjutsu(illusionary techniques), something quite in-character for Sasuke;

  • Scan 1-3: Sasuke uses mind control.
  • Scan 4-5: Sasuke uses illusions.

It's quite useful, especially against characters that can't resist it(cough, Aokiji, cough).

Susanoo

The Susanoo allows the user to manifest a chakra avatar around them in the form of a warrior

Naruto Chapter 464:

Providing a great defense as well as an equally great offense. Sasuke's in particular has great durability feats. Having tanked a bloodlusted raikage's strongest attacks with a mere ribcage;

Naruto chapter 463

Which is impressive in-verse because the raikage has a massive amount of power on par with the bijuu. And it even completely protected Sasuke from the attacks of Juubito, who is well above Hashirama in offensive power;

Naruto chapter 650

Furthermore, this feat also proves that EMS Sasuke's Susanoo is ≅ BSM Naruto's Kurama avatar. Which is enough to handily tank the best of what Hashirama has to offer. Arguing that anyone here can do any real damage to Sasuke would also being violating the power limit of this tourney, too.

Amaterasu

This is a potent black flame that Sasuke can create with his left eye, and manipulate with his right eye. It has some great feats. He was able to burn Bee;

Naruto chapter 415

Who was able to tank a partial Juubi TBB as well as his own TBB which would be around solid large island vaporising level, with a only a few singes;

Naruto chapter 615

as opposed to Amaterasu which damn nearly killed him, and only didn't because he substituted himself before it could. Amaterasu has also burnt the Juubi, even if Sasuke contributed to half the power;

Naruto chapter 634

The same Juubi has tanked its own TBB, a country vaporiser;

Naruto chapter 632

So clearly, the flames are incredibly potent. Potent enough to easily combat, and even overwhelm a certain admiral's flash freeze.

Delving into the battle

In a situation where Sasuke is faced against Hashi and Aokiji with Lacarade under these conditions, there are a number of things Sasuke would definitely do. To talk of a few such moves and scenarios;

Victory at CQC ranges; Closing the distance

Sasuke is an intelligent person with high analytical intelligence. There are several instances in a series where he pulls Death Note level IQ plays in analysing and then trapping/exploiting his opponents for victory. Instances such as in his fight against Deidara and Danzo.

Based on this, as well as the information he has on Hashirama, Sasuke will definitely use the teleportation perk to teleport within a meter of Hashirama and assault him. There are two reasons for this;

  1. Hashirama is almost entirely a mid-long range fighter, he is also most powerful at this range. In exchange though, he is far weaker in h2h and CQC(close quarter combat) ranges in comparison. So closing the distance to half a meter and never letting him go, seals almost all of his best abilities.
  2. While Hashi is much weaker at h2h, Sasuke is excellent at h2h combat and CQC.

At CQC ranges, Sasuke will dominate Hashirama, he has far more feats in this area as well as the Sharingan, which I've talked about earlier. He can also use abilities like Chidori Nagashi which will paralyse Hashirama completely, while then using Amaterasu to burn him down. Hashirama does not have the feats necessary to deal with such power.

In such a way, Sasuke would be able to overwhelm Hashirama, if not outright kill him, while allowing Lacarde to finish the battle from long range(the details of which I leave to Gilgamesh)

Genjutsuing Aokiji's bitchass; Eliminating help

Knowing Aokiji's inability to resist genjutsu, this is also something Sasuke will attempt at some point in time. I can also imagine te counter of Hashirama breaking him out of the genjutsu being brought up, and I'll be explaining why this won't work;

  • Breaking a person out of genjutsu requires the victim to have chakra, thus Hashirama cannot break him out of one
  • Sasuke can use mind control on Aokiji to prevent Hashirama from breaking him out of one any way.

Another possible counter is saying Aokiji will avoid looking into Sasuke's eyes, however, with the teleportation(which Aokiji would be unaware of), Sasuke can easily make eye contact with Aokiji.

Summary and conclusion

  • Vulcan's strat relies on many dubious assumptions, the strat is super unlikely in my eyes.
  • Even the strat were flawless, it's nowhere near a instantanrous win as Vulcan made it out to be.
  • Sasuke's gonna assault Hashirama at his weakest, while genjutsuing Aokiji, both with teleportation alone.

In a lazy nutshell.

However, despite all of what I have presented. Sasuke is still not the gravest danger our opponents have to face, the real MVP, the true core of our team's strat is Lacarde, who makes everything I've presented above look weak.

Look forward to the next post, our team's victory will be made quite apparent.

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TAEP and T4V for all tournament matches please.

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Now that our opponents are finished their openers, it's time for the real winners of this bout to enter the fray.

Larcade Dragneel: The Demon of Pleasure

"Humans cannot help but succumb to their hungers. Even Acnologia shares that weakness. Thus, I am the one who can defeat him. I, the ultimate Mage!"

Larcade Dragneel (ラーケイド・ドラグニル Rākeido Doraguniru) was an Etherious, and a part of the Alvarez Empire as a member of the Spriggan 12: the protection guard of Emperor Spriggan. He was the third strongest member of the Spriggan 12, behind Irene Belserion and August. Larcade, a Demon of Zeref's books, was created during Zeref's attempts to revive Natsu. As he was the strongest out of the failed creations, he was bequeathed the name "Dragneel" and was, many years later, allowed to join the Alvarez Empire.

Fairy Tail Wiki

Larcade is certianly the most unique character in this debate. Whilst others here focus on big booms or spooki illusions to win fights, Larcade's methods are certianly...unique to say the least, but said magic is incredibly potent, befitting someone on Larcade's level due to his status as one of the Spriggan Army's top 3. Let's skip the formalities & get right into it.

Offense:

In terms of dishing out the pain, Larcade has 3 methods of doing so, but in this opener I will only discuss 2 of them, as they will be the ones which are the most relevant

Fairy Tail Chapter 493

Larcade's first method of killing is Pleasure, where causes his victims so much pleasure that their souls leave their bodies. Now what does pleasure mean in this context? Well...ok, their's no nice way of putting it, it's sexual pleasure. This very peculiar requirement means that if your characters aren't virgins, they'll be affected & quickly taken care of. Now whilst the nature of Aokiji's virgin status (god only FT could unironically make me question my opponents virginity status lmao) is pretty unclear, considering Hashirama has canonical, blood related grandchildren iirc, it should show that at the very least it'll work on him.

Unless of course you wanna admit Aokiji to being a virgin, in which case, who's the real winner :).

Fairy tail Chapter 511

Larcade's other form of offense is Soul of The Forbidden Meal, where Larcade essentially makes his opponents become absurdly hungry, to the point of seeing other people as food (and even trying to eat them). Now their's a couple other points to consider when discussing this otherwise pretty simple power, the firs thing being that Sting (one of the characters affected) had just finished chowing down on a bunch of Larcade's magic via his White Dragon Slayer properties, so this can't be simply be bypassed as a byproduct of the group being exhausted.

But the more important thing to discuss is that one can easily attempt to lowball this by saying that Frosch was able to stand up whilst being affected, but this can be easily refuted.

Fairy Tail Chapter 511

That being, whilst Frosch could stand, Sting made it clear that that was all he was really capable of, as The Dragon Slayer was still barely able to lay a finger on Larcade (when he was previously more than holding his own), so until I see otherwise, standing is the best you'll be able to do.

Now, whilst I know the least about One Piece or Naruto in this debate, I'll be just a wee bit bold & put this in the most blunt way possible. You're not surviving Larcade's hax, wether it's Pleasure or Forbidden Meal. These 2 abilities are way too niche for either verse to have any kind of feast that'd let them power through it (I don't even know what Pleasure would fall under tbh, it's an entirely separate beast from anything like soul manipulation or whatevs).

Fairy Tail chapter 508

And as far as tagging you, that's a complete non-issue, since Larcade's AoE is extremely large, able to cover an entire war zone in practically an instant, a distance much further than the distance between both of our teams, so as much as you want to try & run away from larcade, it'd merely be a waste of time.

Speed:

Whilst I'll admit that Larcade is the slowest one here, I should at least address speed to show that him getting blitzed shouldn't really be a possibility.

Fairy tail Chapter 508

With that in mind, Larcade was capable of blocking Kagura's attacks with 1 hand & approximately negative level difficulty. This is impressive given how Kagura in the prior timeskip (in which she is weaker than her EoS self) was capable of going blow-for-blow with Erza Scarlet, who at this point in the story was comfortably quad mach, which I can elaborate on later if I must, but it should make Larcade at least relatively comparable to the rest of the pack.

Countering Aokiji:

In this segment I'll be going over some initial counters against Aokiji (wont be covering Hashirama as my partner has got him locked down), but this'll be quick:

This is probably Aokiji's most used attack, and for good reason. Aokiji's flash freezing potency is absurd and one would need damn good feats to overcome it. Aokiji can casually freeze a large stretch of ocean in an instant. When breaking down this feat, it becomes crazy impressive:

Even ignoring how the speed you put these aren't enough to blitz either of our duo, when it comes down to it, Aokiji will more than likely be too busy either stuck in a Genjutsu or attempting to get Sasuke off of Hashi (seeing as how close range would make Hashi's life a living hell), so I doubt he'll reach larcade before getting affected by his hax.

Another thing to consider is that based on this Aokiji doesn't seem to have the feats to suggest he can freeze mid-air oppnents the same way he can to parts on the ground/whatever he's touching o nothing's really stopping Sasuke from teleporting Larcade mid-air, to where it seems like the ice boi can't really do much.

On last thing to think about, assuming Aokiji gets his ice moving & Larcade applys his hax at the same time, naturally Larcade's insane AoE will reach Aokiji first, but then comes the question of what happens to the ice? Does it have any feats suggest it'll keep moving whilst Aokiji's starving/orgasming to death (and the same question would also apply to Genjutsu too)? Cause if it doesn't, even a burst of ice won't be enough to stop Larcade.

And as a quick reminder, you have approximately under less than a second before Larcade starts applying his hax, so this situation coming up actually seems pretty plausible.

On the defensive side of the spectrum is Aokiji's elemental intangibility. Essentially, Aokiji can turn into ice which allows him to reform if he is broken or shattered. Without Haki, there are very few ways to tax this ability barring elemental counters.

How would this be in-play with Larcade's hax? Logia seems to only really work on physical attacks (punches, projectiles etc), not esoteric magecraft like what Larcade uses.

So how does this battle go? Larcade and Sasuke fall victim to Hashirama's pollen and Genjutsu, which gives Aokiji the opening he needs to flash freeze them and shatter them. For the record, shattering someone while frozen does in fact kill them, as confirmed by Aokiji himself:

Shame about all of teleportation, unanswered question, and it's general speed not being enough.

How the Fight Goes:

The fight will be a rather simple one, thanks to my partner clarifying most of the issues regarding Hashi's prep, so the rest is pretty simple. As Streak's has illustrated, Sasuke will act as the front lines, forcing Aokiji into an illusion he has no hope of recovering from & fighting Hashi where he's weakest, but whilst all that is happening, Larcade will be nice & cosey at the back, going right ahead & applying Soul of The Forbidden Meal or Pleasure (whichever tickles his fancy), leaving both Hashi & Aokiji reeling on the floor, just awaiting Sasuke to pop their heads off whichever way he chooses.

Should either of your members try & go after Larcade, Sasuke can quickly teleport to him thanks to his perk & proceed to zoop Larcade out of danger, and since that'll only take a second, at the same time the hax will be applied and your team is left as sitting ducks waiting to be picked off.

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#11  Edited By HigherPower

@streak619

Rebuttals: Part 1

The biggest problem I have with this strategy is its discountance of in-character tendencies of Hashirama.

And the biggest problem I have with your rebuttal is the failure to accurately assess what an "in-character tendency" would entail for Hashirama under these specific conditions. Nothing I've argued in my strategy is "out of character" in the sense that Hashirama's morals or fighting style would prevent the plan from being executed. And that's an issue I've come across when confronting out-of-character arguments in tournaments with prep. The "character" of a person directly refers to their personality, specifically their moral and ethical beliefs, and how those either aid or constrict them in fights. An OOC argument would be asserting that a pacifist will blitz and murder somebody despite that pacifist openly refusing to kill people they've blitzed in canon due to their beliefs.

However in YOUR case, you're basically arguing that because Hashirama hasn't done the specific steps before that he can't—which is illogical for the simple fact he's never had a reason to, and not because he's incapable or it would be out-of-character.

Case in point:

Hashirama has never used Deep Forest Flower Bloom on panel ever

And? The only fights Hashirama has had by his own will that we've seen and wasn't in a flashback was during the war with the Juubi, in which the pollen from the technique would affect all the Shinobi... And if you count the flashback with Madara, we didn't see the beginning of it, so you can't say for sure whether he used it or not. Not to mention he probably HAS used it against Madara. Madara cast Deep Forest Emergence against the Fourth Division on his own after saying he wanted to try it out, and he cast Deep Forest Bloom against the Five Kage.

So Madara was already familiar with those two techniques based on how he casually weaved the signs for and used them, meaning he's witnessed them at some point—and Hashirama would only deploy a technique like Bloom in battle.

Tsunade also recognized Bloom and cursed Kabuto for deploying such a technique. As if that wasn't enough, Kabuto launched internal dialogue about how powerful Hashirama was AFTER Madara used Bloom, which supports the notion that it was a famed technique for it's power and lethality. So even though we've never seen him use it on-panel, we know he's had to have used it before in combat, which means it's not out of character for him to simply use the technique.

Your logic falls apart once you accept Hashirama has used Bloom in a combat situation, which you would have to since all evidence points towards it. If he had never used it before then no one would know what the technique is. The metric that you judge what is and isn't in-character is apparently based on what they've done, not what they're capable of doing and likely would do given the circumstances. Hashirama has done this so it’s in character for him to do it by your own flawed standards.

And here, Hashirama has an entire HOUR of time to manipulate the battlefield to his favor and give him advantages for the upcoming fight. Not to mention he has basic knowledge so he knows what he's prepping for. To argue that he wouldn't use Deep Forest Emergence to turn the battlefield into a forest (his domain) and then use Bloom to sprout flowers all among the trees to potentially take you down is essentially arguing that he's a complete dunce. Based on his powerset, those are the two techniques anyone would go for in his position. So you need a far better reason to argue he wouldn't go for it than saying we've never seen him do it before, especially considering we haven't seen him in many fights.

It's blatantly nowhere near in-character for him to use it. Even the notion that he will use it at all during combat, is highly doubtful, but you go one step further and say he will use it during prep, which is even further unsubstantiated. The evidence needed to confidenty say he will use Flower Bloom, that too during prep to trap his opponents is simply lacking, imo.

This is just backwards. It's more likely for him to set-up the flowers if he had prep, and have them release pollen when the fight starts rather than use it in the heat of battle when he's focused on counterattacking at the same time. Hashirama has the means to manipulate the battlefield in his favor and give him a distinct advantage, because as far as he knows, two opponents will be spawning inside a death trap—so why wouldn't he do so? Because you don't want him to? Because you know it spells doom for you if he does?

Saying "the notion that he will use it at all during combat, is highly doubtful" is kinda dumb for reasons already explained. If he's never used it in combat then Madara wouldn't have been able to replicate it so flawlessly. Sharingan can copy jutsu and mimic hand sign movements, so it's pretty obvious that Kabuto blessing him with Hashi's cells to enable Wood Release was the only incentive Madara needed to abuse those techniques.

You say my evidence is lacking but I think you're simply not willing to accept the possibility. Clones and undetectable, poisonous pollen are things anybody would use in an ambush, and Hashirama is definitely a combat genius by all accounts. (Being a genius in combat is even a trope in manga, but there's no way someone like Hashi doesn't fight using everything in his disposal to the best of his abilities when it benefits him. This isn’t Boruto.)

There is also no evidence that Hasjirama isn't affected by the pollen either.

I have the No Friendly Fire perk... neither I or my teammates will be affected by either of our attacks.

Hashirama has used genjutsu once, while bloodlusted and morals off under mind control with his personality completely supressed. Do I need to even say it? It's the literal definition of OOC. The idea he will use genjutsu IC? That too during prep? That's frankly an asinine assertion, if I may be so bold, with absolutely no evidence to support it, and plenty to support the contrary. The two essential pieces for your strat, pollen and genjutsu, are highly OOC moves that Hashirama would never utilise, especially in the way you say he will.

There is a much better case for the genjutsu being out-of-character considering he was mind-controlled the only time we saw him use it, and unlike the pollen, there isn't circumstantial evidence that he's used it before. Genjutsu wouldn't work on Sasuke anyway, and with basic knowledge he'll know who he is since they've met in canon (an Uchiha with an advanced Sharingan) so he may not ever attempt it.

That leaves the only thing left to address is your preconception about prep making what you figure an OOC strat even more OOC, rather than more plausible. I really don't see how that makes a modicum of sense. Think about it: Would you deploy traps for someone while in the midst of fighting them, when they can see you doing it, or before they arrive, so they'll be unaware of it and fall victim easier? Anyone with logical reasoning would choose the latter. Even if the flowers were out of character, why would him setting them up during prep to take you down without a chance to respond be less likely than him using when you're fighting and you can see it win plain sight with all the time in the world to counter?

Do really think Hashirama is just gonna sit down and twirl his thumbs for a whole hour? Instead of doing the sensible thing and manipulate the battlefield to his advantage with a power-set that almost seems tailored for controlling the battlefield? Give me a break.

Another aspect of your strat I problem with are the assumptions that

1. Hashirama is capable of thinking up an elaborate strategy like this.

Elaborate?? What I laid out was elaborate to you? Create a forest, make some clones and constructs for support, and wait? That's not elaborate. You must not be familiar with many tournament prep strategies at all if you think so. Maybe it's the fact that he grew some flowers on those forest trees and decided to wait in darkness for an element of surprise that you think a basic battle plan is a 5D chess mission.

I'm not seeing it. You're arguing that Hashirama is legitimately dumb or that he's Naruto and Sasuke in Boruto and just forgets his powers and doesn't know how to fight.

2. Hashirama would lay traps on a battlefield before the battle begins in-character.

Both of these are far-fetched, at best.Hashirama does not have the analytical intelligence, far-sightedness nor the cunningness to think up and employ a elaborate strategy utilizing his abilities in the most effective and underhanded way possible to attain victory.

He is a simple, idealistic, short-sighted numbskull who would've led to Konoha to ruin if it weren't for the succeeding hokages. The strategy you have dwscribed is something people like Shikamaru, Kakashi, Tobirama, Itachi, hell even Sasuke might come up with.

But Hashirama "I taught my 5 year old granddaughter to gamble" Senju?

As a recognized Naruto expert I'm a little concerned with your dishonest portrayal of Hashirama as it conflicts with things we actually have seen and the way he behaves in combat situations.

He doesn't use analytical intelligence? He's a short-sighted numbskull? Yeah, those two things were made very apparent when Orochimaru noted that Hashirama knew how to dispel his control over the Edotensei at any moment, despite Tobirama, the creator of the technique, being completely restricted by it. Hashirama even outright noted that Tobirama instincts have dulled.

Those two things were very apparent when he was the one who took the initiative to activate the Four Crimson Ray barrier, and follow it up with the Gracious Deity Gates sealing jutsu to restrict the movement of the Ten Tails.

Those two things were made very apparent when he created several clones to open the barrier at four specific points to allow the Allied Shinobi entry points to combat the Ten-Tails, and sent one to deal with Madara because he knew he had to be taken care of. When Madara first got excited at the jump of fighting him, Hashirama even told him to wait because he had his priorities in order and knew what had to be to done.

Those two things were made very apparent when Hashirama was the one who IMMEDIATELY recognized that Madara was controlling Obito and forcing him to use the Samsara of Heavenly Life technique as soon as he appeared, then instructed those who hadn't noticed yet to stop the jutsu before it could be completed. He then created six additional clones to stop Madara, but Obito resisted controlled and sealed the Juubi within himself. Bonus points that Minato only realized it after Hashirama pointed it out and Tobirama responded accordingly. And I know damn well you wouldn't say Minato doesn't have "analytical intelligence" and is a "short-sighted numbskull".

Those two things were made very apparent when Madara pointed out Hashirama's wise and cunning decision to send the clones after himself rather than Obito, because Hashi predicted they wouldn't reach Obito in time:

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Those two things were made apparent when Hashirama worked in sync with Tobirama to have a shadow clone restrict Juubito's movements in order for Tobirama's clones to use his Multiplying Explosive Tags.

Those two things were made apparent when Hashi had Ino mind link his clone to the rest of the Alliance in order to relay a message and even his memories for the purpose of boosting their morale to fight Obito. Simple and idealistic? Maybe. But did it work? Yes. Which automatically makes it not short-sighted, because he showcased the mental capacity to play a key role in the eventual triumph by boosting enthusiasm. Those are mind games.

Hashirama has demonstrated time and time again that he's as perceptive, analytical, and intelligent as any of the Hokage, or any of the characters in that war for this matter. He's been able to multitask, showcase awareness and both devise, cooperate with, and execute complex plans on the fly and in the heat of the moment.

But he's just a simple numbskull... yeah ok.

Part II: Larcade

@gilgameshthepimptoendallpimps

So, you're going for Aokiji?

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Larcade's first method of killing is Pleasure, where causes his victims so much pleasure that their souls leave their bodies. Now what does pleasure mean in this context? Well...ok, their's no nice way of putting it, it's sexual pleasure. This very peculiar requirement means that if your characters aren't virgins, they'll be affected & quickly taken care of. Now whilst the nature of Aokiji's virgin status (god only FT could unironically make me question my opponents virginity status lmao) is pretty unclear, considering Hashirama has canonical, blood related grandchildren iirc, it should show that at the very least it'll work on him.

For the amount of buzz that this technique generates, it is far too easy to dispel.

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Also, the localized version of the attack finds Larcade deploying tangible white tentacles to ensnare his victims in order to cause them pleasure. Those tentacles are far too slow to tag Hashirama and he can just destroy them.

The AoE version would affect Sasuke, but even if it doesn't, Hashirama's constructs wouldn't be affected, and neither would clones.

Larcade's other form of offense is Soul of The Forbidden Meal, where Larcade essentially makes his opponents become absurdly hungry, to the point of seeing other people as food (and even trying to eat them). Now their's a couple other points to consider when discussing this otherwise pretty simple power, the firs thing being that Sting (one of the characters affected) had just finished chowing down on a bunch of Larcade's magic via his White Dragon Slayer properties, so this can't be simply be bypassed as a byproduct of the group being exhausted.

Both the hunger and sleep attacks can be countered the same way as the Pleasure one, either through pain or strength of will. In any case, a strong force of will is all that's needed to continue fighting against all of them, which Hashirama has in spades and more veritably than Sting. Hashirama literally was about to kill himself when Madara, an enemy who he had defeated and was at his mercy, gave him the ultimatum between suicide and killing his brother in order to realize peace.

That kind of resolve is almost unheard of.

Also, refer to the first section where I showed Hashirama boosting the morale and willpower of the entire Shinobi alliance to defeat Juubito.

With that in mind, Larcade was capable of blocking Kagura's attacks with 1 hand & approximately negative level difficulty. This is impressive given how Kagura in the prior timeskip (in which she is weaker than her EoS self) was capable of going blow-for-blow with Erza Scarlet, who at this point in the story was comfortably quad mach, which I can elaborate on later if I must, but it should make Larcade at least relatively comparable to the rest of the pack.

This scaling makes no sense. The feat that people use to place Erza at quad mach took place after the timeskip during the Spriggan War and she was much stronger then. Kagura doesn't scale to it.

And Erza's feat isn't as fast as Hashirama's anyway (Hashi's is right at the limit) so yes, Larcade does get blitzed the dozen clones who ambush him.

Part III: The Strategies

Based on this, as well as the information he has on Hashirama, Sasuke will definitely use the teleportation perk to teleport within a meter of Hashirama and assault him. There are two reasons for this;

  1. Hashirama is almost entirely a mid-long range fighter, he is also most powerful at this range. In exchange though, he is far weaker in h2h and CQC(close quarter combat) ranges in comparison. So closing the distance to half a meter and never letting him go, seals almost all of his best abilities.
  2. While Hashi is much weaker at h2h, Sasuke is excellent at h2h combat and CQC.

At CQC ranges, Sasuke will dominate Hashirama, he has far more feats in this area as well as the Sharingan, which I've talked about earlier. He can also use abilities like Chidori Nagashi which will paralyse Hashirama completely, while then using Amaterasu to burn him down. Hashirama does not have the feats necessary to deal with such power.

Hashirama isn't as weak in CQC as you claim. He's defeated Madara in close quarters who has one of the best raw CQC feat in the series when he brutalized the 4th Division (ch. 560). Plus, duking it out is all nice and dandy until you realize that you never addressed the fact he'd be occupied dealing with clones first. Ignoring that the pollen would have already slowed him down massively, the constructs were manifested during prep, so Sasuke would more than likely respond to the situation he perceives by conjuring Susanoo, and then he'd get restrained by the Dragon and beat up by the Golem.

Hashirama can also seal him/immobilize him like he did Madara even if he doesn't opt for avatar warfare. The dude will be weakened by pollen and busy being used as a soccer ball by 12 other Hashirama's to counter. Also the Golem could crush him in human form as well.

Larcade's portion of the strategy just piggybacks off of this working so I don't need to respond to that.

Conclusion

Most of the OOC arguments came across as desperate attempts to find anything to leverage against me, in order to invalidate an extremely simple yet tactful strategy that Hashirama has showcased the intelligence to pull off, and one that he has every reason to do.

Meanwhile, my opponents strat is just teleportation and CQC. I'm amused at why he thinks teleportation would take Hashirama by surprised when he's seen--front and center--the Flying Raijin Jutsu that his little brother created, and all the applications that can be done with it. Not to mention, Hashi clearly isn't weak in CQC or inexperienced when facing a sharingan, knowing that he's defeated Madara on that front many times, and Madara literally has the best CQC showings in the entire series when he demolished the Fourth Division of the Shinobi Alliance.

So nothing has changed. This battle ends before it begins with the opponents spawning in a death trap that is the Deep Forest. The pollen will slow down Sasuke and one-shot Larcade, if Larcade found some way to not get blitzed and one-shot by a dozen clones. Then Sasuke will be ambushed and sealed, flash frozen and shattered, or make a Susanoo to fight the Wood Constructs and get spanked just like Madara.

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Rebuttal | A Dish Best Served Cold

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Dealing with Larcade (@gilgameshthepimptoendallpimps)

Larcade's first method of killing is Pleasure, where causes his victims so much pleasure that their souls leave their bodies. Now what does pleasure mean in this context? Well...ok, their's no nice way of putting it, it's sexual pleasure. This very peculiar requirement means that if your characters aren't virgins, they'll be affected & quickly taken care of. Now whilst the nature of Aokiji's virgin status (god only FT could unironically make me question my opponents virginity status lmao) is pretty unclear, considering Hashirama has canonical, blood related grandchildren iirc, it should show that at the very least it'll work on him.

I want to highlight this statement because without concrete proof of Aokiji's love life, you can't definitively argue this ability working on him.

Larcade's other form of offense is Soul of The Forbidden Meal, where Larcade essentially makes his opponents become absurdly hungry, to the point of seeing other people as food (and even trying to eat them). Now their's a couple other points to consider when discussing this otherwise pretty simple power, the firs thing being that Sting (one of the characters affected) had just finished chowing down on a bunch of Larcade's magic via his White Dragon Slayer properties, so this can't be simply be bypassed as a byproduct of the group being exhausted.

As Vulcan pointed out, this ability can be countered through pain and willpower. Aokiji has basic knowledge, so it is not unheard of for Aokiji to resort to this tactic, especially since similar powers exist in the One Piece world. Boa Hancock's Devil Fruit relies on playing up on one's lust to turn them into stone. And even Vice Admirals like Momanga are noted to be experienced enough to overcome such hax.

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Even ignoring how the speed you put these aren't enough to blitz either of our duo, when it comes down to it, Aokiji will more than likely be too busy either stuck in a Genjutsu or attempting to get Sasuke off of Hashi (seeing as how close range would make Hashi's life a living hell), so I doubt he'll reach larcade before getting affected by his hax.

First of all, I doubt Larcade is as fast as Aokiji to be honest, especially with what Vulcan pointed out about your scaling to Erza. I am also confident that Hashirama can hold his own against Sasuke without Aokiji having to step in and being vulnerable to Larcade.

Another thing to consider is that based on this Aokiji doesn't seem to have the feats to suggest he can freeze mid-air oppnents the same way he can to parts on the ground/whatever he's touching o nothing's really stopping Sasuke from teleporting Larcade mid-air, to where it seems like the ice boi can't really do much.

Gilgamesh, you don't read One Piece, so I would refrain from making bold claims like this. If you had done a little bit of research, you would know that Aokiji did just that during the start of the Marineford War.

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On last thing to think about, assuming Aokiji gets his ice moving & Larcade applys his hax at the same time, naturally Larcade's insane AoE will reach Aokiji first, but then comes the question of what happens to the ice? Does it have any feats suggest it'll keep moving whilst Aokiji's starving/orgasming to death (and the same question would also apply to Genjutsu too)? Cause if it doesn't, even a burst of ice won't be enough to stop Larcade.

Wait what? Larcade's AoE will reach Aokiji first? The best feat you showed me was covering a warzone in an instant. Meanwhile, Aokiji covered a MULTI-ISLAND sized distance in an instant, quite casually as well. Even the Doflmaingo instance (covering a large swath of an island before an MHS character can move his hands a few inches) gives a very clear indication as to how fast Aokiji's ice is. It will definitely reach Larcade his AoE gets remotely close to him.

Also, as I said, you can't prove Pleasure will work and Aokiji should definetely be able to overcome Soul of the Forbidden Meal.

And as a quick reminder, you have approximately under less than a second before Larcade starts applying his hax, so this situation coming up actually seems pretty plausible.

The same goes for you. Only, Aokiji's attack will actually land. Larcade gets flash frozen and shattered, end of story.

Dealing with Sasuke (@streak619)

Another possible counter is saying Aokiji will avoid looking into Sasuke's eyes, however, with the teleportation(which Aokiji would be unaware of), Sasuke can easily make eye contact with Aokiji.

Aokiji has basic knowledge of Sasuke's abilities, so I think this is definetely a plausible counter to Sasuke's Genjutsu. I don't see why teleportation would change that. Even Vice Admirals are able to use Haki.

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Aokiji, being an Admiral and almost becoming a Fleet Admiral, should definitely have Haki. One color of Haki is Observation, which allows you to fight opponents without even needing to see them through precognition and feeling their presence.

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All in all, this battle ends with Sasuke and Larcade betting beaten down by Hashirama or flash frozen and shattered by Aokiji. Their hax won't prove to be effective against Aokiji, as I have illustrated and Larcade likely doesn't even have the speed to keep up.