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#1 Posted by jashro44 (53654 posts) - - Show Bio

Shouto Todoroki

VS
VS

Ebony Maw (MCU)

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Rules

  • In character
  • No prep
  • Win by any means except BFR
  • Standard gear

Location

  • Begin visible
  • Begin 50 feet apart
  • Fight takes place here:
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Who wins and why?

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#2 Posted by Sy8000 (35707 posts) - - Show Bio

It really depends on how good Maw's deflection is. We've never seen him deflect wide energy attacks. If he can do it indefinitely he would eventually win, by feats Shoto wins.

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#3 Edited by Oreoghoul (1909 posts) - - Show Bio

Todoroki. Good battle

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#4 Posted by TheWatcherKing (18572 posts) - - Show Bio

Maw has never dealt with AoE attacks on Todoroki’s scale, is slower, and would get one shot by his explosions/fire.

Backing Shoto.

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#5 Posted by Supermanthor (21221 posts) - - Show Bio
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#6 Posted by JediXMan (42871 posts) - - Show Bio

@sy8000 said:

It really depends on how good Maw's deflection is. We've never seen him deflect wide energy attacks. If he can do it indefinitely he would eventually win, by feats Shoto wins.

If his ability to block projectiles is equivalent, he doesn't do it very well. He needs to use objects to block incoming projectiles so far as we've seen, and he still couldn't block all the projectiles without getting hit.

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#7 Posted by jashro44 (53654 posts) - - Show Bio

@sy8000: @jedixman:To be fair he did swat Cull aside with his TK and sliced a car in two for defense against projectiles. He could probably stop Todoroki's fire I imagine. Or could maybe use some objects in the environment.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

For ice it would be harder to counter i imagine but Maw can probably fly above Todoroki's ice unless his ice can move faster than Maw can fly.

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#8 Posted by ANTHP2000 (28474 posts) - - Show Bio

Ebony.

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#9 Posted by TheVVitchKing (1037 posts) - - Show Bio

Maw is really bad at deflecting a couple of ice spikes should kill him

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#10 Posted by GilgameshThePimpToEndAllPimps (2736 posts) - - Show Bio

Maw has never dealt with AoE attacks on Todoroki’s scale, is slower, and would get one shot by his explosions/fire.

Backing Shoto.

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#11 Posted by Rebake (4559 posts) - - Show Bio

Maw technically blocked the spikes but the car used failed him. It was less durability than Maw expected (he's probably not familiar with Earth).

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#12 Posted by Chronicplane (9356 posts) - - Show Bio

Maw has never dealt with AoE attacks on Todoroki’s scale, is slower, and would get one shot by his explosions/fire.

Backing Shoto.

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#13 Posted by cpt_nice (10044 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't see how Maw blocks/dodges this.

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#14 Posted by Morpheus_ (34626 posts) - - Show Bio

Shoto is in a different league.

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#15 Posted by AlphaQ (6467 posts) - - Show Bio

In character Shoto holds back far more than Maw does, despite his contemptuous attitude towards opponents he doesn’t hesitate to throw them sky high with lethal moves, like he did Iron Man. Shoto gets pancaked with a flick of Maw’s fingers.

Going all out I think Shoto could blitz with his ice.

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#16 Posted by Dadpool (257 posts) - - Show Bio

Todoroki does this, and the fight is over:

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#17 Posted by jashro44 (53654 posts) - - Show Bio
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#18 Posted by ANTHP2000 (28474 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: He's faster on the draw and could do what he did to Iron Man and attack Todoroki from below. Or restrain him a similar way he did Strange, again from below.

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#19 Posted by Lan_Fan (15877 posts) - - Show Bio

Why are people acting like this is supposed to be a close match? Todoroki stomps hard, what the heck?

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#20 Posted by Sy8000 (35707 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:

@sy8000: @jedixman:To be fair he did swat Cull aside with his TK and sliced a car in two for defense against projectiles. He could probably stop Todoroki's fire I imagine. Or could maybe use some objects in the environment.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

For ice it would be harder to counter i imagine but Maw can probably fly above Todoroki's ice unless his ice can move faster than Maw can fly.

Fire would be completely different from solid objects. Maw apparently has molecular TK via the Russos' statement but we haven't seen him manipulate anything energy based. Ice would actually be easier.

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#21 Posted by jashro44 (53654 posts) - - Show Bio

@lan_fan said:

Why are people acting like this is supposed to be a close match? Todoroki stomps hard, what the heck?

Why do you think its a stomp? I think Todoroki has a lot more power but TK isn't an easy ability to counter in general.

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#22 Posted by Lan_Fan (15877 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: Maw never directly TK'd someone offensively, and he can't create force fields. These are the 2 things that usually make TK users tricky to fight, and he's never done both.

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#23 Posted by jashro44 (53654 posts) - - Show Bio

@lan_fan said:

@jashro44: Maw never directly TK'd someone offensively, and he can't create force fields. These are the 2 things that usually make TK users tricky to fight, and he's never done both.

He should be able to use it directly on people considering he threw Cull to the side. I don't think he can create force fields exactly but he seemed to create some sort of barrier when the car got sliced in two. He seems capable of using his TK to shield himself.

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#24 Posted by Lan_Fan (15877 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:
@lan_fan said:

@jashro44: Maw never directly TK'd someone offensively, and he can't create force fields. These are the 2 things that usually make TK users tricky to fight, and he's never done both.

He should be able to use it directly on people considering he threw Cull to the side. I don't think he can create force fields exactly but he seemed to create some sort of barrier when the car got sliced in two. He seems capable of using his TK to shield himself.

Yeah? Where's that TK anywhere else in his fights? Why did he rely on a random metal pole on the street to restrain Strange if he could just crush him instantly? Why didn't he just take the time gem away with TK? Why was he throwing random stuffs at Peter if he could just use offensive TK on him? In Thanos' ship, instead of getting ready to instantly TK them directly, he was ready to throw stuffs at them.

Either he's really dumb, or he simply can't TK anyone directly that well. DCEU Ares has pushed Wonder Woman with TK, now can I claim he could instantly crush other characters directly with his multi-thousand tons TK in Battle Forum? At least I don't.

he seemed to create some sort of barrier when the car got sliced in two. He seems capable of using his TK to shield himself.

IIRC, he can't even stop his own projectiles, and needed to TK a car to cover himself. He was lucky to get out with a scratched face, he could've got a hole on his head. I can't imagine him doing anything to Todoroki's attacks.

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#25 Posted by jashro44 (53654 posts) - - Show Bio

@lan_fan:

Yeah? Where's that TK anywhere else in his fights? Why did he rely on a random metal pole on the street to restrain Strange if he could just crush him instantly?

Maybe Strange can overpower his TK with his own TK.

Why didn't he just take the time gem away with TK?

He needed strange to remove the protection spell.

Why was he throwing random stuffs at Peter if he could just use offensive TK on him? In Thanos' ship, instead of getting ready to instantly TK them directly, he was ready to throw stuffs at them.

Maybe his TK isn't strong enough to restrain them. Both iron man and spider-man have super strength.

Either he's really dumb, or he simply can't TK anyone directly that well. DCEU Ares has pushed Wonder Woman with TK, now can I claim he could instantly crush other characters directly with his multi-thousand tons TK in Battle Forum? At least I don't.

I don't see why not.

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#26 Posted by Lan_Fan (15877 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: No no no... There's nothing suggesting that he knew any of those wouldn't have worked since he never tried them out in the first place.

Maybe Strange can overpower his TK with his own TK.

That's purely speculation, we have seen 2 hours of Dr. Strange movie, and we still have no idea if he can perform telekinesis or not, let alone Maw who just had met Strange 2 minutes ago.

He needed strange to remove the protection spell.

He found out about protection spell because he tried to take it away with his hand, which burnt his hand. No one (including Maw himself) knows how TK would fare against the spell, because again he never tried it in the first place. Also, Maw should've tried that first before trying to touch it with bare hands.

Maybe his TK isn't strong enough to restrain them. Both iron man and spider-man have super strength.

But throwing some random metal blocks at them would definitely work? He could've just ragdoll them around regardless of their strength level, but whatever. If he could cut a car in half, he should be able to brutally murder Spider-Man with that as well.

I don't see why not.

Seriously?

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#27 Edited by jashro44 (53654 posts) - - Show Bio

@lan_fan:

No no no... There's nothing suggesting that he knew any of those wouldn't have worked since he never tried them out in the first place.

There could be any number of reasons. He showed the ability to use TK directly on people. I don't see why we should assume he can't use his TK on a person.

That's purely speculation, we have seen 2 hours of Dr. Strange movie, and we still have no idea if he can perform telekinesis or not, let alone Maw who just had met Strange 2 minutes ago.

We do. He held back the water in end game.

He found out about protection spell because he tried to take it away with his hand, which burnt his hand. No one (including Maw himself) knows how TK would fare against the spell, because again he never tried it in the first place. Also, Maw should've tried that first before trying to touch it with bare hands.

Why assume he couldn't use his TK on the time stone? Pointing out plot holes isn't evidence he can't do something. He picked up everything else.

But throwing some random metal blocks at them would definitely work? He could've just ragdoll them around regardless of their strength level, but whatever. If he could cut a car in half, he should be able to brutally murder Spider-Man with that as well.

I mean characters hurt each other by throwing stuff at each other all the time. Your saying he should have brutally murdered spider-man but this is a family friendly film...There not going to show spider-man getting butchered. That would break there PG13 rating.

Seriously?

Haven't seen wonder woman but I don't see why we should assume Ares can't use his TK on people unless some explanation was provided. Characters aren't limited to fighting exactly the way they've shown to fight on screen. There are a lot of factors involved when it comes to fighting like plot limiting characters.

EDIT: Even without using his TK directly on Shoto I don't see why he can't deflect his fire with his TK like he did against other projectiles. Or use metal in the environment as a shield. As I said his defense against ice is mostly flying out of range. So even if he fights without directly using TK I don't see this as a stomp.

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#28 Posted by Lan_Fan (15877 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44:

There could be any number of reasons. He showed the ability to use TK directly on people. I don't see why we should assume he can't use his TK on a person.

Number of reasons that don't make sense. Maybe he's just stupid, still would be a factor in his match-up.

We do. He held back the water in end game.

Could be hydrokinesis, tbh. Again, Maw wasn't aware of this.

Why assume he couldn't use his TK on the time stone? Pointing out plot holes isn't evidence he can't do something. He picked up everything else.

Well, he didn't try that on something so simple, so why assume it'd be useful in a fight when he has proven time to time again that he doesn't use his TK like that.

I mean characters hurt each other by throwing stuff at each other all the time. Your saying he should have brutally murdered spider-man but this is a family friendly film...There not going to show spider-man getting butchered. That would break there PG13 rating.

So he was sure that he could harm Iron Man by throwing random metals at him, but direct TK is a no? Imagine Spider-Man (let's not count his webbings) trying to throw rocks at Rhino instead just using his strength directly to stop him. Sounds dumb, right? Maw on the other hand, doesn't even need to risk his body getting harmed in a close range combat since he's a TK user.

Haven't seen wonder woman but I don't see why we should assume Ares can't use his TK on people unless some explanation was provided. Characters aren't limited to fighting exactly the way they've shown to fight on screen. There are a lot of factors involved when it comes to fighting like plot limiting characters.

I do agree that it is just the way plot limits these characters, but it still should be a factor in battle. If he could just freely use his TK like people are assuming here, he should be above Thanos himself.

Even without using his TK directly on Shoto I don't see why he can't deflect his fire with his TK like he did against other projectiles. Or use metal in the environment as a shield. As I said his defense against ice is mostly flying out of range. So even if he fights without directly using TK I don't see this as a stomp.

What part of environment could be huge and durable enough to stop Shoto's fire? His flight and reaction speed aren't fast enough to dodge Shoto's ice attacks from what I see.

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#29 Posted by AlexTheBoss (18443 posts) - - Show Bio

I would back Todoroki. One could blast of fire or ice can put Maw out of commission, and I don't think Maw has the power to stop it.

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#30 Posted by TheWatcherKing (18572 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44:

Maybe Strange can overpower his TK with his own TK.

Tbh there is no evidence of that taking place

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#31 Posted by jashro44 (53654 posts) - - Show Bio

@lan_fan:

Number of reasons that don't make sense. Maybe he's just stupid, still would be a factor in his match-up.

Maw is the member of the black order that is known for his intellect.

Could be hydrokinesis, tbh. Again, Maw wasn't aware of this.

We don't know what Intel the black order had.

Well, he didn't try that on something so simple, so why assume it'd be useful in a fight when he has proven time to time again that he doesn't use his TK like that.

Why would he be torturing strange to try and get him to remove the spell if he could just use his TK to carry it off? Maybe strange had multiple protection spells on the time stone.

So he was sure that he could harm Iron Man by throwing random metals at him, but direct TK is a no? Imagine Spider-Man (let's not count his webbings) trying to throw rocks at Rhino instead just using his strength directly to stop him. Sounds dumb, right? Maw on the other hand, doesn't even need to risk his body getting harmed in a close range combat since he's a TK user.

Spider-man throwing objects at rhino would be the better strategy. Because if he throws stuff at rhino he can hurt him without standing in his way. If he tries to stop the charge he would just get trampled. Mass X acceleration=force. So if spider-man is capable of throwing an object heavier than his fist at equivalent speed it would do more damage.

I do agree that it is just the way plot limits these characters, but it still should be a factor in battle. If he could just freely use his TK like people are assuming here, he should be above Thanos himself.

Not really because Thanos can just overpower his TK.

What part of environment could be huge and durable enough to stop Shoto's fire? His flight and reaction speed aren't fast enough to dodge Shoto's ice attacks from what I see.

There are several cranes and such in the images.

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#32 Posted by jashro44 (53654 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44:

Maybe Strange can overpower his TK with his own TK.

Tbh there is no evidence of that taking place

This entire debate is just bull shit speculation....There is also no proof Maw can't use his TK directly on people...In fact there is evidence to the contrary.

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There could be any number of reasons Maw never used his TK on people during his fights. PIS, some reason it wouldn't work, etc. Hell when he was torturing strange he was restraining him with his TK while he did it...

There are always difference between a way a character performs in a story and the way a character performs in the battle forums. I see no reason to assume Maw can't use his TK on people.

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#33 Edited by Lan_Fan (15877 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44:

Maw is the member of the black order that is known for his intellect.

Maybe because the rests aren't really intelligent. He has no intelligence feats either.

We don't know what Intel the black order had.

Exactly, most likely because they don't have one.

Why would he be torturing strange to try and get him to remove the spell if he could just use his TK to carry it off? Maybe strange had multiple protection spells on the time stone

Exactly what I'm saying. Considering Maw never tried his TK on this, we can't really tell.

Spider-man throwing objects at rhino would be the better strategy. Because if he throws stuff at rhino he can hurt him without standing in his way. If he tries to stop the charge he would just get trampled. Mass X acceleration=force. So if spider-man is capable of throwing an object heavier than his fist at equivalent speed it would do more damage.

What? Whatever. The random objects Maw was throwing are small anyway, so it doesn't matter. Direct TK would be more effective either way, and he wouldn't need to stand in Iron Man's way.

Direct TK would be impossible to react to, so it's clearly better than throwing small objects.

Not really because Thanos can just overpower his TK.

No, he's getting ragdolled, and there's nothing he can do about it. Strength don't matter in TK battle.

There are several cranes and such in the images.

Geez, you really think that could stop Shoto's attacks? He probably can't even react.

This entire debate is just bull shit speculation....There is also no proof Maw can't use his TK directly on people...In fact there is evidence to the contrary.

Show me any scene where Maw offensively TK anyone directly instead of using his environments which is far more ineffective and far easier to react to. If he's never done that given the chance, why would he do it here, or anywhere else for that matter?

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#34 Posted by jashro44 (53654 posts) - - Show Bio

@lan_fan:

Maybe because the rests aren't really intelligent. He has no intelligence feats either.

Corvus and Proxima were generals and they came up with a strategy to get Wanda away from Vision which worked.

Exactly what I'm saying. Considering Maw never tried his TK on this, we can't really tell.

That doesn't mean he can't do use his TK on a person...Especially since he was restraining Strange in that moment with his TK.

What? Whatever. The random objects Maw was throwing are small anyway, so it doesn't matter.

Maw was the one who threw the car initially which was than deflected back at him which he cut in two. He also did this:

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Direct TK would be more effective either way, and he wouldn't need to stand jn Iron Man's way.

How do we even know Tony couldn't just over power his TK? Besides they never fought. Tony just blasted him into space.

No, he's getting ragdolled, and there's nothing he can do about it. Strength don't matter in TK battle.

It does matter. Maw lifts thanos off the ground and than what? Thanos is stronger than hulk so we know he can perform thunder claps. If he has his glaive he could just throw it at Maw.

Geez, you really think that could stop Shoto's attacks.

We already know metal is a good defense against Todoroki. That was proven in the manga when he fought Tetsutetsu recently.

Manga spoilers below for people keeping up with the anime.

This is an insane feat of power but it also shows metal can block his fire for a time. And this is Shoto going all out to the point where his powers were compared to Endeavor (all though Endeavor still has better feats).

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5

Tetsutetsu was going to melt but not instantly and he endured the flames for a time. This was Shoto going all out. Prior to that his attacks didn't work at all on Tetsutetsu. I was thinking Shoto could use this power to counter Maw if Maw did try to restrain his person (since the fire was felt so far away and Tetsutetsu was being burned through his metal skin, and cameras were being fried.

Show me any scene where Maw offensively TK anyone directly instead of using his environments which is far more ineffective and far easier to react to. If he's never done that given the chance, why would he do it here, or anywhere else for that matter?

I admittedly can't in a fight. I'm mostly debating this because you said he can't. and your reasoning seems based on a bunch of plot holes. Whether or not Maw would fight that way for a majority is fine because he doesn't nessasarily need to, to fight Shoto IMO. He has other ways of fighting Shoto. Unless we are assuming Shoto blitzes Maw. Not sure about that because Shoto's best feat is creating a giant ice ridge in the blink of an eye. Either that or keeping up with Bakugo in H2H during the sports festival.

I'm also not trying to argue Maw wins here for the record.

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#35 Edited by TheWatcherKing (18572 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:
@thewatcherking said:

@jashro44:

Maybe Strange can overpower his TK with his own TK.

Tbh there is no evidence of that taking place

This entire debate is just bull shit speculation....There is also no proof Maw can't use his TK directly on people...In fact there is evidence to the contrary.

No Caption Provided

There could be any number of reasons Maw never used his TK on people during his fights. PIS, some reason it wouldn't work, etc. Hell when he was torturing strange he was restraining him with his TK while he did it...

There are always difference between a way a character performs in a story and the way a character performs in the battle forums. I see no reason to assume Maw can't use his TK on people.

All I said was there is no evidence for what you said..... I do think Maw can use TK directly on people, its just not in character for him to use it in combat like Scarlet Witch did to thanos.

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#36 Posted by DeathHero61 (18870 posts) - - Show Bio

What is Maw's answer to large scale attacks when he struggled to stop his own projectiles? I don't get it.

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#37 Edited by Rijehu (1832 posts) - - Show Bio

@deathhero61 said:

What is Maw's answer to large scale attacks when he struggled to stop his own projectiles? I don't get it.

He doesn't have one. I was actually going to vote for him but I saw YouTube clips of Todorokis' AOE and Maw would be vaporized by the shock-waves even if the attack itself missed. Also Todoroki has some pretty impressive durability.