Shinra Kusakabe(Fire Force) vs Natsu

Natsu

@dimitri1220: how is natsu gonna touch Shinra?

@rikuyamaha: Doesn't Shinra move using fire? Natsu eats fire until Shinra exhausts himself

Im pretty sure Natsu would be blitzed and one shooted before he made a chance to even taste Shinras fire. Also there's the argument of Shinra extra dimentional Fire so you would have to prove Natsu has the capabilities of devouring that type of power.

@rikuyamaha: true, Shinra seems much faster so he should win.

Natsu's ability is to eat fire, I don't see why he wouldn't be able to eat this type of fire. He's already shown to be able to eat fire that's in a "higher order" than his own, so Shinra's shouldn't be any different.

Being on a higher order of magic fire doesn't equal a fire thats extra dimentional tbh. And even assuming he could eat it, Shinra can blitz and tear off his head before he breathes in anything.

I mean in the end of the day, it's still fire.

Also I know that Shinra wins, I'm just talking about if Natsu can actually eat the fire or not.

@dimitri1220:

I mean in the end of the day, it's still fire

Indeed, but not fire that he's shown the capability to eat. It isn't something that exists in his universe and is even on another plane of existence in its own.

I think natsu can win. One good answer for speed is aoe and natsu can emit heat that over a very wide area. And potent enough to melt stone and metal. Plus shinra should only be faster than natsu when hes using his fire meaning if natsu eats his fire and shuts down his boost, he'll be as fast as a regular person and natsu will actually be able to speed blitz funnily enough.

And from what i know of, comicvine doesnt accept statements and the fire being on another plane was a statement with nothing backing it up if i recall. I see no reason why natsu cant eat the fire when hes shown he can eat things that arent even fire anyway.

@rikuyamaha: Natsu could definitely eat the fire, but he may have to adapt to it first which could cause him pain. It's a shame it doesn't look like he has a chance to.

I mean, i would like to know how Natsu would eat fire from a different dimention but yeah, even if he could adapt, it wouldn't save him from being blitzed and having his head kicked off from Shirna going FTL

Shinra still annihilates him.

@rikuyamaha: i dont see how those manga pages explain it being on a higher plane. All There saying is that it cant be explained by science and its "different". Being different and being on a higher plane are 2 VERY different things. Sho manipulating the heat from the universe is pretty wild but that doesnt point to being on a higher plane. Its just a form of heat manipulation that doesnt even have anything to do with the flame mostly. More so sho's manipulation.

And i didnt take into account shinra being FTL cause im sure natsus durability far exceeds shinras kicks (feel free to prove me wrong) so he would just tank his kicks and then boom AOE attack. I know speed carries weight but thats another thing ive noticed gets ignored on vsbattles forums otherwise characters who are Lightspeed and above would have AP that scales WAY above what people put them at. Especially when they actually start getting better AP feats later on. Like if the strike of a character had country level AP, you would also have to factor in how strong said country level strike would be when moving at lightspeed or FTL speeds.

Likee this guy said its from the land of Adolla which is eternally on fire, Natsu would never be able to eat all of the fire, and likewise shinra would never run out of flames unless he isn't adolla link, but this guy can literally force a link.

Shinra once FTL doesn't even use flames his whole body becomes Light and becomes intangible like when he fought Sho and disappeared, what really happened was he was circumnavigating the globe and touched down by hitting a pillar.

Natsu gets kicked by an FTL being

Fire Force is a better series to read

Shinra oneshots the fodder

• Pre timeskip Natsu

Prolly loses

@valorknight: people like you are really annoying. Take that web debate knowledge energy and apply to school work loser.

Natsu, easily. Shinra doesnt have the strength to hurt him.

@sonochinosadame: Exactly. And doesn't natsu basically get stronger the more fire he consumes? Someone mentioned something about shinra becoming light, didnt Natsu consume laxus lightning at one point. Natsu smacks the hell out of Shinra lol.

Shinra speedblitzes and oneshots

Still this.

@theoneasakura: Yes, and yes. He ate laxus's lightning and unoced a new mode, but im not sure light = lightning. If he even turns into light at some point I had no idea about it.

Natsu stomps

Shinra blitz and stomps

What was Natsu's pre-timeskip durability like?

@yoruichi-is-bae: very high

Lol

@kingxix: Quantify that, mountain level? Island level?

@yoruichi-is-bae: I will say mountain to island level

Shinra only has the edge in speed and its not like he starts going lightspeed once he gets in a fight if he uses fire feet natsu absorbs it and his speed near the end of the series isn't even super slow my best estimate would be supers sonic(which is most likely a low ball) or so but shinra, once natsu touches him he's not gonna survive the hit

I’m not do sure about Natsu winning. Shinra can move faster than light, something physically impossible as asymptote forms as you get closer to the speed of light. This means that Shinra can perform a phenomenon known as “snap acceleration”. In order to do this, you literally need infinite energy. Also, this means that Shinra is the most robust object in the universe as friction alone would kill a normal person before 3000 m/s much less 3*10^8 m/s. If you are wondering, I’m an engineering student at RHIT and have completed Physics 1,2 &3. This by no means makes me an expert physicist but I added this to support my claim.

No, Shinra is FTL. I don't see how Natsu is blitzing either way.

I even did some math to support my earlier claim. If we assumed that Shinra weighs 150 lbs or about 68.0388 kg, at the speed of light (299792458 m/s), Shinra has the same momentum as a 134 ton Amtrak train traveling at 375,187.2677 mph or Mach 489.162. To put this speed into even more context, this train would be traveling 88.28x faster than the X-15, the fastest manned jet ever created. This calculation doesn't even account for the fact that Shinra can accelerate past the SoL.

But even with that i think your kind of forgetting natsus absured durability and ap not being affected by time stop while in END being able to eat all sorts of flames which unless shinra has activated his edola burst then he can't go light speed so unless he starts with that in every match i doubt natsu is getting blitzed off the bat not to mention natsu is in no way slow FT characters(that scale to natsu) have been able to dodge lighting pre time skip and post 7 years with 2nd origin they are on a whole nother level also natsu was capable of defeating someone with infinite power who was going to erase an entire timeline and form a new one and natsus fire was burning through his attacks and his dragon force increases his abilities as well. Im not sure how shinra with his speed alone is gone put down natsu with just speed when his durability and practically hax fire is capable of this much

Shinra still bodies him.

Natsu beat base shinra, lose against Evangelist’s grace shinra

Pre timeskip natsu? That's tartaros arc? Or tenrou natsu? Tartaros arc natsu is at least mountain level+. What is shinra's attack potency? I've only seen the first season of the anime and he scales to city block AT MOST(not even MCB).

Does he have a way to hurt natsu at all? People keep saying he blitzes yet ignoring the massive difference in power between these two chars? Shinra will run of energy or stamina while trying to hurt natsu and natsu will kill him when he can barely move anymore.

It also doesn't help that shinra's only ability is just using fire which will only fuel natsu's power. Natsu's has eaten all sorts of flames before so eating or absorbing shinra's wouldn't be an issue.

With that said, Now if season 2 or current shinra has done anything on tartaros or above tartaros arc natsu's level then pls feel free to post the scans or feats(cuz like I just said, I've only seen the first season), otherwise Natsu is middiffing the battle. Heck the only reason its a middiff is because of the massive speed difference, if speed was equalized natsu would stomp him badly.

@el_directo_:

What is shinra's attack potency?

Fire Force has retroactive buffs for AP (which means that previous feats become more impressive later on when we have more information). If he doesn't seem to be impressive in the anime, that's because he doesn't have his later feats to reinforce him.

Shinra (in base, mind) scales above characters like Nataku who did this.

People keep saying he blitzes yet ignoring the massive difference in power between these two chars?

Even if Shinra was weaker to an extreme extent, he's so fast that he could hit Natsu millions of times before he has a chance to blink. All of that is additive and would fell Natsu whether Shinra was weaker than him or not (which he isn't, but I digress).

Natsu's has eaten all sorts of flames before so eating or absorbing shinra's wouldn't be an issue

Shinra's flames come from another elevated dimension, so I don't believe that Natsu could eat them unless he's done so to similar flames before (which he could have, I don't claim to know all of his feats and I certainly don't know everything about Fairy Tail).

Stalemate or Natsu

Shinra has low AP/DC, but he's way faster even in base that he outclasses the FT verse in speed.

That being said, Natsu wins in every other category, including endurance. Why is this important? Well Shinra burns out quickly, and Natsu is immune to flames, so Shinra is fighting a losing battle, since he'll never kill Natsu via traditional means (He'd have to carry him into space or drown him in order to win, neither of which is a viable option without getting burnt to a crisp.) Either way, it'd be an interesting fight.

@nashiruu:

Shinra has low AP/DC

In comparison to Natsu? Definitely not.

That being said, Natsu wins in every other category, including endurance

False. Shinra fought Benimaru for 5 hours straight before he started to overheat.

and Natsu is immune to flames

Shinra doesn't use his flames to attack, but instead to boost him forward. Natsu's "immunity" to fire (which might not even matter considering where Shinra's flames come from) is completely irrelevant here.

since he'll never kill Natsu via traditional means

Even if Shinra was only mountain level (which is an entirely asinine claim), he would still be able to kill Natsu before he had time to blink due to the sheer amount of times he could hit him within the span of even a millisecond.

Does fire force have any other comparable feats to the one moon feat in terms of their AP/speed?

Shinra stomps

Natsu still stomps

@hotcheetojuice: Even if there weren't (which there are, at least three others that I can think of at the moment), it wouldn't really matter because Fire Force as a series is sort of locked behind the area it's in. Like, what I mean is that Okubo couldn't have his characters constantly vaporize mountains or countries in a world that's 90% water with a fractured Japan as one of the only landmasses left. I think my point is that it wouldn't really be fair to judge the series strictly off of the quantity in which these feats appear thanks to the nature of it all.