Shinra Kusakabe(Fire Force) vs Natsu

Rules:

• In characters
• Pre timeskip Natsu
• Canon Feats only
• Random Encounter-No Knowledge
• Wins by Death or K.O.

Location:

Natsu low dif. Pre timeskip natsu = mountain buster, blew up tenrou islands mountain. Faster than sound reaction time. Punches that shatter boulders casually. Immunity to fire. Power up from shinras fire. Breathes fire hot enough to melt rocks, can fly with it. Can make the fire solid. Vs one speedy boi who packs a punch. Mismatch. Captain burns would fare better but Natsu>captain burns

Natsu stomps the verse

Natsu has the superior power and durability but Shinra is way too fast for him.

Natsu.

FTL Natsu, lol.

Natsu has ftl reaction feats. Will post when I'm out of work.

Btw being able to dodge stings light laser beam is ftl. (Yes it travels at the speed of light)

@zeloth7: how is it light speed? Wouldn’t that be a massive outlier

Shinra constantly speed blitzes Natus ass throughout this entire fight. Though he doesn't really have something that could put the Dragon Slayer down from this fight so stalemate,

Natsu Stomps

Stalemate or Shinra overheats

Shinra can hurt Natsu but Natsu can’t touch Shinra.

Anyone who thinks Natsu can catch Shinra is ridiculous. Shinra has FTL speed combat speed and can constantly move at that speed.

Natsu can eat the entire Fire Force world population, everyone there is fire food for him. Having the Adolla Link means extra delicious fire for consumption.

@crater_maker: natsu can consume flames. no flames, no speed. this becomes an endurance match. the only diff is that shinra will eventually exhaust his body's oxygen while his flames would power up natsu. also im pretty sure shinra only reached those speeds because of his adolla link with the evangelist through sho (im an anime only so i have no clue if he move at that speed on his own)

@ejnazar: I'm anime only too so not sure what it's currently like in the manga.

Even without the Adolla link he's still relativistic though. Would Natsu be able to react to eat his flames in the first place? And Natsu can't eat all flames right? So we have no clue how an Adolla flame would affect him or if he'd be able to eat them.

fire force is underrated but still natsu wayyyyy more feats

Feats? Also lmao to FTL speed troll harder CraterMaker.

All you guys think speed solves everything. In that case, Death Battle Sonic should've stomped Mario or Gray should've stomped Esdeath because their speed levels are way above them, but they lost.

So no, even if Shinra has the advantage of being light speed, that wouldn't be enough to overcome other advantages Natsu has against him. Other advantages including insane power, durability, tactics, senses and even modes that drastically increases Natsu's power.

I may ignore the rule above, but my point is speedblitzing doesn't mean stomp if you don't have enough strength to beat your foe.

Shinra is better in all areas, he curbstomps.

@valorknight: Please describe, since when does Shinra have country or continent level feats? The only best I see for Shinra is mountain.

@salamander9:

Please describe, since when does Shinra have country or continent level feats?

Since 2018.

The only best I see for Shinra is mountain

Go back and read the manga then.

@valorknight: that's not an answer. I did some research on panels and calculations. Most of these feats cannot be determined without calculations. If you think because of hax, that's not really an advantage.

@salamander9:

that's not an answer

You asked a question and I answered it.

I did some research on panels and calculations

I'd recommend doing a better job next time then.

Most of these feats cannot be determined without calculations

Both incorrect and idiotic.

If you think because of hax, that's not really an advantage

Shinra doesn't have hax, nor does he need it to beat Natsu.

@valorknight: yes, they have to. Because judging feats from just images themselves can lead to overestimates and underestimates. Both Death Battle and VS Battles wiki uses them to determine all those tier levels. I've been debating on VS Debates with others online and even upcoming Death Battle episodes to know this.

The answer I expected is you describing an event or even show panels. Don't just ask someone to read an entire series, that takes too long.

@salamander9:

Both Death Battle and VS Battles wiki uses them to determine all those tier levels

Death Battle and VS Battles are both unreliable to a fault.

The answer I expected is you describing an event or even show panels

Your opinion doesn't matter to me, so why would I try to convince you?

Don't just ask someone to read an entire series, that takes too long

Don't make statements about a series you're not knowledgeable on then.

@valorknight: ok, then how do you determine someone's power level then? Also, if this is a debate, you don't expect people to know everything. How is saying showing panels an opinion? If you want to debate, at least show me proof instead of saying a self-centered reason that doesn't convince me.

@salamander9:

ok, then how do you determine someone's power level then?

I determine power by reading the manga myself instead of parroting what others think.

Also, if this is a debate, you don't expect people to know everything

I expect them to at least know what the other character can do. You obviously don't.

If you want to debate, at least show me proof instead of saying a self-centered reason that doesn't convince me

You tagged me, I never once initiated a debate.

@valorknight: Reading the manga itself is just only one part in vs debate. The other part is determining carefully on how powerful it is. I made that mistake multiple times by just reading, but not determining it.

Alright, if you say I don't know or even if I do know, don't just shove words or force your views on others. That just pisses most people off instead. I recommend that if there are people who don't know, at least convince them properly instead of getting pissed. Even if I don't know, I can still look at respect threads to see then.

Is Fire Force a good read? What can Shinra do?

@salamander9:

I made that mistake multiple times by just reading, but not determining it

You are the problem here then, as no one else has that issue.

Alright, if you say I don't know or even if I do know, don't just shove words or force your views on others

I didn't do either of those things.

I recommend that if there are people who don't know, at least convince them properly instead of getting pissed

I am far from being pissed, I just don't care for people that attempt to make claims while having no knowledge on the thing they're talking about. It isn't my job to educate you, nor should you be making claims before you've educated yourself.

Even if I don't know, I can still look at respect threads to see then

Then go do that instead of pestering me.

@cocacolaman:

Is Fire Force a good read?

Yeah, I like it a lot.

What can Shinra do?

Shinra can accelerate past the speed of light and has anywhere from country to continental strength and durability. If he doesn't have an Adolla Link (which allows him to move at FTL speeds) he caps out at relativistic.

Assuming the above is true, Natsu gets stomped. The only debatably country level characters are the DGs and Acno, but they are above Natsu substantially, but no chance of continental to this point in Fairy Tail.

@valorknight: I just got back after looking through all of Shinra's best feats on respect thread and chapter panels.

No, I think you're overexaggerating it. The speed as I mentioned earlier is definitely Shinra's only advantage.

The whole country to continent level Shinra doesn't support anything from what I see him do in the manga. I don't see him do anything that covers the size of a country or continent or even pulverize something that is big enough to do that. In terms of feats and power levels, it's not any impressive as I look up for Esdeath from Akame ga Kill.

@salamander9:

No, I think you're overexaggerating it

I don't care.

The speed as I mentioned earlier is definitely Shinra's only advantage

It isn't and even if it was he'd still win.

The whole country to continent level Shinra doesn't support anything from what I see him do in the manga

You didn't read the manga, so that isn't a surprise. Shinra (while at 30%) almost one-shot someone that no-sold this blast. If we consider how powerful he'd be at 100% as of the current chapters, claiming that he's country level is honestly a lowball.

I don't see him do anything that covers the size of a country or continent or even pulverize something that is big enough to do that

He beat characters with feats like that, so it doesn't matter.

@valorknight: I even looked at other characters he overpowered. There is no confirmed evidence that he did that.

I even looked at the moon crater. I tried to find something to see if anything supports something that scales him to that. I still don't see any supportive evidence.

@salamander9:

There is no confirmed evidence that he did that

I linked the scans showing him performing the feat I mentioned. It's factual.

I tried to find something to see if anything supports something that scales him to that

You can read, right? If so, we shouldn't be having this conversation.

@valorknight: idk why he's arguing against hard evidence tbh. The only real question to ask is if Natsu can devour Shinras flames before shinra speedblitzed and one shots.

@rikuyamaha: Shinra doesn't damage people with his flames most of the time considering he uses them as thrusters to augment his kicks. Natsu eating his flames wouldn't be practical or useful in a battle situation, not that he'd have time to begin with.

I allready knew that part, i was taking as the flames being used as thrusters if Natsu had time to devour it. And natsu eating it might be useful as it could prevent the thrusters and as such, prevent shinra from going FTL. Then again it has to be argued that natsu has time to even do that before shinra kicked his head off.

@rikuyamaha: Shinra uses flames from Adolla, so who knows whether or not Natsu would even be able to eat them. I know he's eaten other flames outside of his jurisdiction, but these aren't magic and were stated to be from a higher plane of existence.

Mhh, i haven't gotten to the higher plane of existence Adolla flames, i just thought they were from Amaterasu who was a god. If they're on another plane, I'll have to keep eating. But i could argue natsu being able to eat it as apparently he can eat it via being able to eat any type of flames. But i honestly don't think that could work via the difference in speed.

@rikuyamaha:

Mhh, i haven't gotten to the higher plane of existence Adolla flames, i just thought they were from Amaterasu who was a god

Yeah, that was never stated a single time in the entire manga. Amaterasu isn't a God and his flames don't relate to her at all. I have no clue where that notion came from.

But i could argue natsu being able to eat it as apparently he can eat it via being able to eat any type of flames

You couldn't, as there's no reason that'd be applicable to other fictional universes.

But i honestly don't think that could work via the difference in speed

It wouldn't.