Shinra & Sho vs. Asta & Yuno

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KillerQueen

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#1  Edited By KillerQueen

The Pillars, Shinra & Sho!

No Caption Provided

The Wizards, Asta & Yuno!

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Rules & Stuff

Shinra has the Evangelist's Grace, but cannot use the Pressure of Death. Sho has access to Severed Universe as usual. Both are current.

Asta and Yuno both have their respective forms and are current as well.

Which set of rivals/brothers wins?

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KillerQueen

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JasonRey

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#3  Edited By JasonRey

Are BC and FF really Head to Head in powerlevels ?

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deactivated-5f392956154f0

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Shinra and Sho compound on each other so well, which is something we never see because of their status as enemies. I don't know if they have what it takes to counter the versatility of Yuno or some of Asta's more obscure stuff honestly.

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KillerQueen

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@jasonrey: Yeah, I'd say so. Fire Force lags behind in speed, but under these circumstances it balances out.

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captain_inverse

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Feats for team 1?

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KillerQueen

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@captain_inverse: I'll get back to you on that when I'm at my computer. I have all of their showings compiled together, so I'll set up a little introduction for them.

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ragegod

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Asta and Yuno don't really have an answer for time manipulation.

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JasonRey

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Time manipulation ? Dafauq ? FF is this op ?

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deactivated-5ea0874809400

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@jasonrey:

It’s situational for Shinra but Sho can slow his bodies heat beyond the expansion of the universe to make him stop time around him.

Shinra can accelerate past the speed of light which makes him able to dilate time as well.

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crxckerkiid

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BC duo have a slight edge in speed but as someone already mentioned they dont really have an answer for Sho's Severed Universe, plus Shinra dominates them in physicals.

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Samsaknight

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@crxckerkiid: Considering they're faster they do, cuz Shinra is able to get past it by going FTL. Also Asta has better physicals

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GaranoBallins

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Bc gets bitzed LEL

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Zero7

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Severed universe

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EpsilonR

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Asta and Yuno should take this

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One_of_Two

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Shinra and Sho are fast, but do they have the durability to avoid getting disintegrated by Yuno's aura?

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Morningstar999

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Shinra solos.

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pics

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Shinra and Sho eventually

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RomeoBeta

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crxckerkiid

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@romeobeta: Shinra was able to escape it by turning into particles and going back in time, the Bc duo cannot do that. They still get oneshot by Shinra.

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deactivated-60d4d60fdf33c

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if this anime then Asta and Yuno

If Manga then idk, I didn't read the manga

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RomeoBeta

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@crxckerkiid: Arthur was still able to react, even though barely, on ep 17, @9:55. This proves that the faster you are the less the effects of Severed World affects you. Meaning that Asta and Yuno, because they move at faster than light speeds can essentially bypass severed world.

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crxckerkiid

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#23  Edited By crxckerkiid

@romeobeta: He didn't bypass it? He still got completely fucked by Sho right there lmao. Plus didn't he get the training about the breath of life? Or was that after this?

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Pr03

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Shinra and sho solos. They can move fast enough to stop time or reverse it or some shit

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RomeoBeta

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#25  Edited By RomeoBeta

@crxckerkiid: I didn't say he bypassed it? I said that him being able to even react in Severed Universe proves that turning into particles and going back in time isn't why Shinra bypassed it. Shinnra bypassed it because he was moving at a fast enough speed... light speed. In fire force, it just so happens light speed also causes a character to go back in time.

No Caption Provided

Here is a screenshot of Shinra in Severed Universe and not as particles, which is identified by the glowing feathers, and if you watched the scene, he his sliced by Sho and his blood remains in the air then suddenly falls due to Severed Universe being deactivated. Episode 22, start from 18:15 and this exact shot occurs at 18:20. So this is further evidence proving that all you need to do to bypass SU is be lightspeed.

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RomeoBeta

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RomeoBeta

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Morningstar999

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Shinra solos definitely now.

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RomeoBeta

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ok.

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Zero7

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@romeobeta: No, Black clover doesn't have any feat like that.

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RomeoBeta

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#32  Edited By RomeoBeta

@zero7: They do though... Chapter 50, Yami says Patri will simply dodge his attack the the speed of light. Asta later fights Patri

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RomeoBeta

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Zero7

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#34  Edited By Zero7

@romeobeta: I'm not talking about light speed, BC characters have no feat like affecting time with just speed alone. Fire force has their own settings.

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RomeoBeta

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@zero7:

@crxckerkiid: I didn't say he bypassed it? I said that him being able to even react in Severed Universe proves that turning into particles and going back in time isn't why Shinra bypassed it. Shinnra bypassed it because he was moving at a fast enough speed... light speed. In fire force, it just so happens light speed also causes a character to go back in time.

No Caption Provided

Here is a screenshot of Shinra in Severed Universe and not as particles, which is identified by the glowing feathers, and if you watched the scene, he his sliced by Sho and his blood remains in the air then suddenly falls due to Severed Universe being deactivated. Episode 22, start from 18:15 and this exact shot occurs at 18:20. So this is further evidence proving that all you need to do to bypass SU is be lightspeed.

As I already said, the only requirement for bypassing Severed Universe is being fast enough, that speed is... faster than light, which Black Clover Characters can hit. This is evident as we see a completely solid Shinra moving inside of Severed Universe.

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Zero7

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#36  Edited By Zero7

@romeobeta: When Shinra reaches the speed of light , his body splits into subatomic particles in the process, then the particles surpass the speed of light, allowing him to go a few seconds back in time to the point before Shinra's body broke apart, materializing Shinra again in a stopped time similar to Sho's Severed Universe.

You should understand how it works before saying that.

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RomeoBeta

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#37  Edited By RomeoBeta

@zero7: Shinra isn't shown turning into particles then back solid into shinra, right before or after Severed Universe is shown to have been active though? (only referring to the 18:20 scene). He was solid right before and after we see the shining feathers.

4
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If the images don't load, just watch the scene yourselves, 18:12, 18:14, 18:16, 18:20.

These images, labelled 1-4 are all within 10 seconds of solid Shinra getting sliced in Severed Universe. (notice how they're labelled).

Image 1, is facing in Shinra's direction and we see no feathers indicating Severed Universe is active.

Image 2, is facing in Sho's direction (almost the complete oppsite side to shinra, like from turning from North to South) and again, we see no feathers indicating Severed Universe is active.

Image 3, is facing in Shinra's direction again, and it's the same case, no Severed Universe.

This shows, that in the last 4 seconds (notice the timestamp on top left), that Severed Universe hasn't been activated yet. So if what you are saying is correct, Shinra would need to turn into particles once more, to be able to move in Severed World, because @18:20 we see Severed Universe active, and Shinra move his hand and generally the left side of his body to dodge Sho's blade.

Image 4, Shinra has yet to turn into particles since Sho has put up his most recent Severed Universe yet we see him try to dodge Sho's attack. Once again proving speed is the only requirement to bypass Severed Universe.

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RomeoBeta

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@zero7: I do understand, it seems that you don't though... Shinra is clearly moving in Severed Universe after not turning into particles.

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Zero7

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#39  Edited By Zero7

@romeobeta: The problem with you is that you think just constant speed or speed above Light is enough to overcome Sho's time stop because Fire force showed that which isn't applicable in BC.

In Fire force they explained that even at the speed of light they can affect Time and BC characters who can move at the speed of light haven't showed something like that and you're talking about just being FTL can overcome Sho's time stop lol.

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RomeoBeta

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@zero7: All you need to do, is move faster than the speed of light to bypass Sho's Severed Universe, there is literally nothing proving otherwise.

At ep 100 pre timeskip Black Asta was sol and that could be a lowball, post timeskip devil union Asta is most definitely ftl, which is all that is needed to bypass Severed Universe. Team Clover wins this

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Zero7

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@romeobeta: Licht from Fire force literally explained how Shinra did that. He said, Shinra at the speed of light can match sho's Severed Universe and going beyond that speed is just to get back his body back to normal in "Severed Universe". Nobody in Bc has shown to stop time or affect Time by moving at the speed of light, so there is no point in giving asta's feats.

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RomeoBeta

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@zero7: Okay so you are saying that Shinra goes at the speed of light to bypass Severed Universe, and when he does go at the speed of light, he turns into particles. To turn back solid, he needs to go even faster than light... right?

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Zero7

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#43  Edited By Zero7

@romeobeta: When Shinra reaches the speed of light, he can move in that "Severed Universe" but his body also turns into particle at that high speed which he gets back to normal by going beyond the speed of light. So, my simple point is that Fire force settings are different, in that verse, characters can move in time /affect Time at the speed of speed of light. You can't apply their settings in Bc because Patri or other characters haven't showed something like that when they moved at the speed of light.

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RomeoBeta

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@zero7: Okay, but what you are saying is just wrong...

Here is the proof that you don't need to turn into particles.

@zero7: Shinra isn't shown turning into particles then back solid into shinra, right before or after Severed Universe is shown to have been active though? (only referring to the 18:20 scene). He was solid right before and after we see the shining feathers.

4
4
3
3
2
2
1
1

If the images don't load, just watch the scene yourselves, 18:12, 18:14, 18:16, 18:20.

These images, labelled 1-4 are all within 10 seconds of solid Shinra getting sliced in Severed Universe. (notice how they're labelled).

Image 1, is facing in Shinra's direction and we see no feathers indicating Severed Universe is active.

Image 2, is facing in Sho's direction (almost the complete oppsite side to shinra, like from turning from North to South) and again, we see no feathers indicating Severed Universe is active.

Image 3, is facing in Shinra's direction again, and it's the same case, no Severed Universe.

This shows, that in the last 4 seconds (notice the timestamp on top left), that Severed Universe hasn't been activated yet. So if what you are saying is correct, Shinra would need to turn into particles once more, to be able to move in Severed World, because @18:20 we see Severed Universe active, and Shinra move his hand and generally the left side of his body to dodge Sho's blade.

Image 4, Shinra has yet to turn into particles since Sho has put up his most recent Severed Universe yet we see him try to dodge Sho's attack. Once again proving speed is the only requirement to bypass Severed Universe.

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Zero7

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#45  Edited By Zero7

@romeobeta: Bro...... you can't be serious...

Why would they show that same scene (Shinra turning into particle) again n again? They showed it one time just to explain and after that they skipped that part because Shinra was literally going "back in time " where his body is okay, understood? If you read the manga, Shinra has blurry marks around his shoulder like his few body parts are still in particle form when they both were fighting equally.

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RomeoBeta

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@zero7: Since it seems you clearly can't understand how is power works, why not debate another point... What is their strongest attack that would be able to harm Asta and Yuno? Yuno has passive matter disintegration which would make having a drawn out battle unfavourable for Sho. What is the AP of the Kusakabe duo?

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Zero7

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#47  Edited By Zero7

@romeobeta: You're the one who's not understanding 😭

I literally told you to read the manga, they clearly showed the details around Shinra's body after turning into particles. You were saying that Shinra didn't turn into particle which got debunked by that.

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Zero7

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@romeobeta: I don't have proper scaling for FF duo but they can beat BC duo with their time stop and by hitting vital parts.

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RomeoBeta

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#49  Edited By RomeoBeta

@zero7: That's not how it works... if they aren't strong enough to beat them then the Black Clover duo can just outlast their Severed Universe and beat them when it's up. Asta scales to Large Country level to Continent. Neither Shinra nor Sho knows pressure points, and if they aren't as strong, there is literally nothing they could do.

Here is a calc showing that Demon Licht was Large Country, and here Asta cut him as if he was butter. Which would get him to Large Country+. Does Shinra or Sho have any comparable feats?

Yuno has passive matter disintegration. Does Shinra or Sho have any resistances to matter disintegration?

Time stop is limited so, BC duo can just wait it out and kill them afterwards, unless you can prove Shinra or Sho has comparable feats to Asta/

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tagsorwhatever

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@zero7: That's not how it works... if they aren't strong enough to beat them then the Black Clover duo can just outlast their Severed Universe and beat them when it's up. Asta scales to Large Country level to Continent. Neither Shinra nor Sho knows pressure points, and if they aren't as strong, there is literally nothing they could do.

Here is a calc showing that Demon Licht was Large Country, and here Asta cut him as if he was butter. Which would get him to Large Country+. Does Shinra or Sho have any comparable feats?

Yuno has passive matter disintegration. Does Shinra or Sho have any resistances to matter disintegration?

Time stop is limited so, BC duo can just wait it out and kill them afterwards, unless you can prove Shinra or Sho has comparable feats to Asta/

Asta scales to Large Country level to Continent. Neither Shinra nor Sho knows pressure points, and if they aren't as strong, there is literally nothing they could do.

AP=/=Durability if we dont know asta dura feat then there is not enough evidence to suggest they can outlast severed universe

Here is a calc showing that Demon Licht was Large Country, and here Asta cut him as if he was butter. Which would get him to Large Country+. Does Shinra or Sho have any comparable feats

stop you didnt show the scan that disagree with your scans.demon licht is a chunk of magic so it couldnt withstand asta anti magic attacks

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Time stop is limited so, BC duo can just wait it out and kill them afterwards, unless you can prove Shinra or Sho has comparable feats to Asta/

there is absolutely no reason for shinra and sho to wait for time stop to finish so they would attack while time stopped