Shinnok vs Cheshire

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Zetsu-San

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Zetsu-San

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LpnQ

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The most Cheshire could do to stop shinnok would be BFR. i looked through his RT and just found lots of FTE speed feats and traveling.

1) He'd have to resort to BFR. Shinnok is immortal.

This

2) lore wise shinnok has control over earth + all demons.

Demon control

3) Tears people apart/ huge chest laser. Keep in mind these guys are not fodder.

check

4) Deflects raidens lighting bolt ( in base form) and strikes back with his own.

k

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Zetsu-San

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@lpnq: Hmm, any MK characters you feel would be more even of a match?

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Zetsu-San

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#5  Edited By Zetsu-San

@lpnq: Also KO is generally considered a win condition unless otherwise stated, and Cheshire is pretty hard to kill as well. Based on the decapitation scene I don't see why he'd be stuck with only BFR. Can shinnok regenerate from being eaten?

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Ultimate_Knight

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#6  Edited By Ultimate_Knight

Does getting his head out of his body count as a win?

Yes, he was still alive, but I doubt he was in any condition to fight, so that should count as a win.

@lpnq said:

The most Cheshire could do to stop shinnok would be BFR. i looked through his RT and just found lots of FTE speed feats and traveling.

I interpreted otherwise. More emphasis on magic powers than stats in my point of view.

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LpnQ

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@zetsumoto: not sure, TBH not really knowledgeable about MK besides from just playing through the story modes.

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Zetsu-San

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#8  Edited By Zetsu-San
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Zetsu-San

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Zetsu-San

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NeonGameWave

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Shinnok for the majority.

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Zetsu-San

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Khael

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Raiden had multi-continental feats while Fujin had mountain level feats and both got beaten by Shinnok easily. I think he takes this one, especially if we count statements.

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Zetsu-San

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@khael said:

Raiden had multi-continental feats while Fujin had mountain level feats and both got beaten by Shinnok easily. I think he takes this one, especially if we count statements.

They do?

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Khael

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#17  Edited By Khael

@zetsumoto: Yup, dang it. I just turned down my PC. But yeah Raiden had a force field that protects the earth and he was shown to be able to repair it on panel after it was damaged. Fujin stated himself that he could destroy a mountain.

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Zetsu-San

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@khael: And Liu Kang is supposed to be more powerful than them?

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Khael

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@zetsumoto: In h2h yeah... In his dragon form he'd one-shot both of them.

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Zetsu-San

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@khael said:

@zetsumoto: In h2h yeah... In his dragon form he'd one-shot both of them.

Why do they all seem so... Street level...?

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@khael said:

@zetsumoto: In h2h yeah... In his dragon form he'd one-shot both of them.

Why do they all seem so... Street level...?

(Because they are)

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Zetsu-San

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@zetsumoto said:
@khael said:

@zetsumoto: In h2h yeah... In his dragon form he'd one-shot both of them.

Why do they all seem so... Street level...?

(Because they are)

Street levelers can casually destroy mountains and continents?

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Khael

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@zetsumoto: Because of "Mortal Kombat" which is basically h2h. Their high tier fights aren't really street level. Even Sub-Zero froze a whole city at one point.

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@major_hellstorm said:
@zetsumoto said:
@khael said:

@zetsumoto: In h2h yeah... In his dragon form he'd one-shot both of them.

Why do they all seem so... Street level...?

(Because they are)

Street levelers can casually destroy mountains and continents?

Idk when they did that but Scorpion (street level guy, read his comics in the new timeline and played all the modern games) fought an amped Raiden and held his own.

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Khael

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@major_hellstorm: Also fought amped Sub-Zero who was freezing a city. Raiden lost that fight because Scorpion literally cannot be put down no matter what.

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@khael: And? Spidey hangs with the Hulk but his feats are street. He can still be defeated (unless he is in the Nether realm).

Scorpion is not even a bullet timer, cannot lift more than 2 tons or is bulletproof. He is a street leveler.

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Zetsu-San

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@khael: And? Spidey hangs with the Hulk but his feats are street. He can still be defeated (unless he is in the Nether realm).

Scorpion is not even a bullet timer, cannot lift more than 2 tons or is bulletproof. He is a street leveler.

Quan Chi blocked bullets with a spell that he didn't begin casting until after the guns were fired, so I would think they are at least minor bullet timers.

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@zetsumoto: Quan Chi is a tier above Scorpion and Sub Zero. He is in the higher end of the street level spectrum with his magic.

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Zetsu-San

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@zetsumoto: Quan Chi is a tier above Scorpion and Sub Zero. He is in the higher end of the street level spectrum with his magic.

He got his arse handed to him right after doing that though.

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Zetsu-San

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@major_hellstorm: Scorpion doesn't hang with them, he beat them. If Hulk tags Spiderman, the fight is pretty much over but that's not the case with Scorpion. The dude cannot be put down in any manner (much like Deadpool) which makes him a pain in the ass to guys like Raiden who's actually a glass canon compared to his destructive capability.

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@major_hellstorm said:

@zetsumoto: IIRC that was when Sonya beat him?

I believe so. Sonya also lost to Scorpion in MKX.

Cassie and Johnny beat also Shinnok IIRC. MKX fights where the player does the fighting are PIS.

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@khael said:

@major_hellstorm: Scorpion doesn't hang with them, he beat them. If Hulk tags Spiderman, the fight is pretty much over but that's not the case with Scorpion. The dude cannot be put down in any manner (much like Deadpool) which makes him a pain in the ass to guys like Raiden who's actually a glass canon compared to his destructive capability.

Spidey beat Firelord. Scorpion's regen feats aren't that impressive, his bests ones were being stabbed and getting back up. Also guys like Kotal Kahn and Goro also have weak feats compare to their power ranking.

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Zetsu-San

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#35  Edited By Zetsu-San

@major_hellstorm said:
@zetsumoto said:
@major_hellstorm said:

@zetsumoto: IIRC that was when Sonya beat him?

I believe so. Sonya also lost to Scorpion in MKX.

Cassie and Johnny beat also Shinnok IIRC. MKX fights where the player does the fighting are PIS.

I am talking about in story.

Sonya beat Quan Chi, in story.

Scorpion also beat Sonya, in story, then beat Quan Chi as well (although he was weakened that time).

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@zetsumoto: I know, it happened in the boss fight, in the story timeline.

Loading Video...

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Khael

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@zetsumoto: Quan Chi is a tier above Scorpion and Sub Zero. He is in the higher end of the street level spectrum with his magic.

Remember who beat up Quan Chi and killed him in MKX?

Loading Video...

@zetsumoto: IIRC that was when Sonya beat him?

She also did, different story.

@zetsumoto said:
@major_hellstorm said:

@zetsumoto: IIRC that was when Sonya beat him?

I believe so. Sonya also lost to Scorpion in MKX.

Cassie and Johnny beat also Shinnok IIRC. MKX fights where the player does the fighting are PIS.

Because they are immune to magic, easy logic here. They're nightmare for sorcerers.

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Zetsu-San

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#38  Edited By Zetsu-San

@major_hellstorm: That's Cassie Cage vs Shinnok. Cassie had a very specific plot-power that allowed her to harm him.

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@khael: Human Scorpion (yes, a human beat the most powerful sorcerer).

When did it say the green aura made them immune to magic?

@major_hellstorm: That's Cassie Cage vs Shinnok.

Yes, you said that you were talking about in stroy when Cass beat Shinnok in story.

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Zetsu-San

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@khael: Cheshire survived dimensional destruction 2wice. The first was his own dimension collapsing around him after already been sliced to bits (with anti-abyss infused sword), the second was God straight up deleting the dimension and causing a temporal twister that can rip apart your mind, body, and soul.

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Zetsu-San

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#41  Edited By Zetsu-San

@major_hellstorm said:

@khael: Human Scorpion (yes, a human beat the most powerful sorcerer).

When did it say the green aura made them immune to magic?

@zetsumoto said:

@major_hellstorm: That's Cassie Cage vs Shinnok.

Yes, you said that you were talking about in stroy when Cass beat Shinnok in story.

Did it really have to? Shinnok shot him and his magic bolt disappeared into the green aura.

That was in response to your "Fights involving players are PIS" comment. I missed the first sentence involving Cassie and Shinnok. Cassie had a specific plot power that let her win. It's like how in Pandora Hearts the Children of Ill Omen can kill powerful interdimensional reality warpers.

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Zetsu-San

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@major_hellstorm:

Human Scorpion (yes, a human beat the most powerful sorcerer).

Which brings me to my first point. Quan Chi is a bullet timer. He got his shit wrecked by two other human characters. I don't see how they aren't bullet timers.

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@major_hellstorm:

Human Scorpion (yes, a human beat the most powerful sorcerer).

Quan Chi isn't the most powerful sorcerer, he sure has a lot of hax but in a straight up fight, he stands no chance against Scorpion

When did it say the green aura made them immune to magic?

It was never stated but it was shown. None of Shinnok's attacks in the cutscene managed to damage Cages when they were in green aura. It was clearly shown in the comic as well when Cage negated Scorpion's hellfire.

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Khael

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@khael: Cheshire survived dimensional destruction 2wice. The first was his own dimension collapsing around him after already been sliced to bits (with anti-abyss infused sword), the second was God straight up deleting the dimension and causing a temporal twister that can rip apart your mind, body, and soul.

Shinnok also pulled of similar feats against Elder Gods, this might be a great match after all.

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@khael:

@major_hellstorm:

Human Scorpion (yes, a human beat the most powerful sorcerer).

Which brings me to my first point. Quan Chi is a bullet timer. He got his shit wrecked by two other human characters. I don't see how they aren't bullet timers.

Because they have zero feats and get tagged by swords. If you wanna do DB esque scaling through PIS fights that is fine though

Quan Chi isn't the most powerful sorcerer, he sure has a lot of hax but in a straight up fight, he stands no chance against Scorpion

Who is? Even if he is faster and stronger?

It was never stated but it was shown. None of Shinnok's attacks in the cutscene managed to damage Cages when they were in green aura. It was clearly shown in the comic as well when Cage negated Scorpion's hellfire.

Shinnok beat Sonya and Johnny without magic.

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@major_hellstorm:

Because they have zero feats and get tagged by swords. If you wanna do DB esque scaling through PIS fights that is fine though.

By your logic Naruto characters are also slow because Sasuke keeps tagging them with his sword

Who is? Even if he is faster and stronger?.

Scorpion is clearly faster and stronger than Quan Chi, also more skilled.

Here is Scorpion going faster than eyes, blitzing ninjas.

No Caption Provided

Shinnok beat Sonya and Johnny without magic.

Cage weren't in his green aura and he couldn't control it yet at that point

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@khael: Sasuke has actual MHS feats, Scorpion does not.

By feats Quran Chi reacted to lightning which is better than anything Scorpion has done.

Where is the FTE part?

Wasn't the point. The point was even without magic he should be Cass unless the green aura also amps her stats a dozen times over.

Anyway, sorry for derailing the thread. Will stop posting now.

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Zetsu-San

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@major_hellstorm: It's not really derailing, since right now, the actual power levels of MK characters seems to be a subject of debate.

I think it's weird to declare a character not a bullet timer, when said character is a physically oriented fighter who has feats of taking on and defeating characters who do have such feats.

There's nothing wrong with scaling. DB scaling doesnt work because DB is to inconsistent for scaling.

I assumed that the green energy amp was like an overall kryptonite to Shinnok. Let her harm him with ordinary strength punches, and let her tank his strikes.

It's like of like when Loki infused Captain America with aura from the norn stones. Captain's stats were the same, yet suddenly he was abled to dice up Sentry without issues.

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@zetsumoto: Well for me it is feats above all and Scorpion lacks feats, meanwhile Jason can keep up with Liu Kang. Even if Scorpion beats MHS people without actual MHS feats I do not think he is MHS, in the same way I do not think Karate Kid is LS because he fought Kryptonians.

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@major_hellstorm: That's not my point. Quan Chi reacted to lightning in Deadly Allience, oh well, Scorpion did even better than Quan Chi against Raiden. The part when a trained ninja couldn't even react/see his moves. Of course it made her stronger as well, have you tried Cages moves-sets? Shinnok literally had a huge weakness right on his stomach which was his downfall against Cassie, again he'd have stomped if his magic worked on her.