Benimaru will have basic knowledge on all of his enemies and will be fighting as if Asakusa was in danger. All opposing characters will have basic knowledge on Benimaru and will be operating under their usual mindsets. Win conditions include death, knockout, and incapacitation. It'll take place here. All characters will be at their strongest point within the canon of each manga.
Benimaru will have two runs through the gauntlet. In the first run, speed will be equalized. In the second run, speed will be unequalized.
I dont believe that anyone below the strawhats could tank multiple of those flaming broom things. From strawhats and above, he'd probably have to use his actual flaming technique(i cant remember what theyre called) where he gestures. Basically i think he has the DC to beat everyone in the gauntlet, its just he probably gets beaten by hax from the last two rounds. (Note im not current in FF)
@exauce: Benimaru fought Shinra and Arthur at the same time and won, so he should be low-end continental with his normal blows. His ultimate move is continental+ or higher, but he can't use it more than once. He isn't versatile at all and there's just one of him, so keep that in mind even if he's a bit more powerful than they are. In terms of speed, he's faster than Arthur (so high relativistic).
There's several Gotei members that would solo the 4 Hokage.
As for Benimaru, he can take on 1-3 combined and still would win. For the Strawhats, they last a little longer but ultimately Benimaru puts them down. He gets stomped by the Gotei specifically this point:
All characters will be at their strongest point within the canon of each manga.
Yamamoto would one-shot him casually in Bankai, Benimaru has no durability feats that suggest he's surviving the heat of the Sun.
He should beat Soifon in Bankai, but in this scenario when he's fighting against 13 opponents her Shikai would be extremely deadly due to her two-hit kill ability. And she is much more impressive than him in CQC.
Rose isn't really that impressive, but Benimaru would probably be in a dangerous place under Rose's Bankai illusions.
Unohana isn't really special since she's a Kenpachi type, but she's extremely skilled in skill & kido, so she could still be relevant.
Shinji is icing on the cake and one of the main reasons Benimaru gets stomped, Benimaru cannot counter Sakanade because Sakanade inverts everything including the direction of wounds, hearing, etc. best part if that it's ideal for Group fighting since he won't attack his allies senses and he can even reflect attacks from enemies.
Byakuya is also extremely dangerous too, I've seen no piercing durability feats from Benimaru that suggests he can survive the power of 100 million swords that are powerful enough to obliterate Gerard's head (a character who on his own would likely beat Benimaru)
Komamura at his strongest would be when he cast aside his life, so his Dangai Joe Bankai form, which is nothing but pure reiatsu, and considering Benimaru is mainly a CQC fighter, he can't even break dent in this Komamura's form, it's immune to harm basically.
Shunsui at his strongest would one-shot due to his Bankai which consists of a few different powers that Benimaru has no resistance feats for. Little lazy to list but to summarize damage reflection, incurable sickness, energy-absorbing ocean, and decapitation via the energy.
Kensei is offscreen fodder ;(
Toshiro's Bankai would freeze Benimaru in place and seal off his powers while in Matured Adult Form.
Kenpachi already has Benimaru's physicals in his Bankai and would pummel his strikes repeatedly which won't help when Benimaru's frozen in place by Hitsugaya and senses are inverted by Shinji.
Mayuri with basic knowledge would already know weaknesses of virtually anyone in the entire Fire Force verse and already crafted a backup plan with a drug that would likely destroy Benimaru's very body.
Ukitake would absorb attacks like Nichiren and Akatsuki and just shoot it back at Benimaru with his zanpaukto.
Benimaru would likely beat the Four Hokage mid diff or high diff, but the Gotei stomp him pretty casually.
There's several Gotei members that would solo the 4 Hokage
Hashirama at his strongest can take all of them and win, but that's besides the point.
Benimaru has no durability feats that suggest he's surviving the heat of the Sun
You don't know what feats he has regarding heat (having not read the manga and all), so this sort of a dumb statement to make. Benimaru can control all heat within a four meter radius of himself, so that wouldn't work. I have no stake in whether or not he wins the fight, but claiming that Yamamoto one-shots him is insulting if nothing else.
He should beat Soifon in Bankai, but in this scenario when he's fighting against 13 opponents her Shikai would be extremely deadly due to her two-hit kill ability
Benimaru isn't a stranger to fighting several skilled opponents at the same time, something that he demonstrated when fighting against the Holy Sol's Shadow (read from right to left):
All of these dudes had been trained from birth to go for a killing blow right off the bat and have perfect teamwork with one another, but Benimaru fodderized them. I know there weren't 13 of them (9 by my count), but he should be alright based on that I'd think.
And she is much more impressive than him in CQC
I'd agree on a superficial level, but she hasn't done much worth mentioning.
Shinji is icing on the cake and one of the main reasons Benimaru gets stomped, Benimaru cannot counter Sakanade because Sakanade inverts everything including the direction of wounds, hearing, etc. best part if that it's ideal for Group fighting since he won't attack his allies senses and he can even reflect attacks from enemies
I'd agree with this being a problem if he didn't have the Breath of Life. It's a sixth sense that wouldn't be affected by Sakanade at all, so he could just close his eyes and fight that way. It's been confirmed that he doesn't need to see to fight as well considering he fought the whole recent battle against the White-Clads while wearing a mask with no eyeholes.
Byakuya is also extremely dangerous too, I've seen no piercing durability feats from Benimaru
Benimaru doesn't tend to get hit, so we don't know what that's like. I'd guess that if it wasn't all too good he'd put special effort into avoiding Byakuya, but it'd be something he'd need to be cautious of.
that suggests he can survive the power of 100 million swords that are powerful enough to obliterate Gerard's head (a character who on his own would likely beat Benimaru)
Akatsuki would one-shot Gerard 10/10 times if it weren't for his regeneration.
Shunsui at his strongest would one-shot due to his Bankai which consists of a few different powers that Benimaru has no resistance feats for. Little lazy to list but to summarize damage reflection, incurable sickness, energy-absorbing ocean, and decapitation via the energy
Shunsui doesn't use his Bankai when the other Captains are around.
Kensei is offscreen fodder ;(
One of the greatest tragedies in Bleach. I've always liked Kensei.
Toshiro's Bankai would freeze Benimaru in place and seal off his powers while in Matured Adult Form
I'm confident he'd break out of that quick if he did get caught.
Kenpachi already has Benimaru's physicals in his Bankai and would pummel his strikes repeatedly which won't help when Benimaru's frozen in place by Hitsugaya and senses are inverted by Shinji
It didn't take even a minute of fighting Gerard in his Bankai before his arms started ripping off, so he knocks himself out real quick.
Ukitake would absorb attacks like Nichiren and Akatsuki and just shoot it back at Benimaru with his zanpaukto
He doesn't have the feats for that (especially not considering neither of those are projectiles in the first place). Ukitake is more likely to pass out and die of illness than to do anything relevant around Beni.
Benimaru would likely beat the Four Hokage mid diff or high diff, but the Gotei stomp him pretty casually
I think the Hokage would be the best match due to their sheer power, but his fight against the Gotei 13 would assuredly be the more interesting to watch in my opinion. I probably won't reply after this to avoid starting an argument in my own thread (as apparently that's frowned upon), but these are just a few points that I disagreed with.
Hashirama at his strongest can take all of them and win, but that's besides the point.
Impossible. Hashirama can't even take on the Espada at their strongest unless some amps/nerfs are in place.
You don't know what feats he has regarding heat (having not read the manga and all), so this sort of a dumb statement to make.
My friend, I believe you would've presented them already in our CaV, but I'm happy to see any more Benimaru feats to expand my knowledge on Fire Force.
Implying Benimaru can control the heat of the sun or any heat for that matter. Can he control a nuke's heat consistently? Can he control a supernova's heat? Can he control Large Hadron Collider's if they last longer than split seconds? If he can control any level heat that'd be appreciated to see.
Yamamoto's Bankai is not just heat, it has different forms.
Why can't Yamamoto one-shot Benimaru? Benimaru's heat durability would have star level practically and considering Yamamoto has the potential to destroy Soul Society over time (Bleach Volume 57 Chapter 507), that would mean overtime Benimaru would have to have planet level durability as well.
Benimaru isn't a stranger to fighting several skilled opponents at the same time, something that he demonstrated when fighting against the Holy Sol's Shadow (read from right to left):
All of these dudes had been trained from birth to go for a killing blow right off the bat and have perfect teamwork with one another, but Benimaru fodderized them. I know there weren't 13 of them (9 by my count), but he should be alright based on that I'd think.
Unless if they have similar feats to Soifon who can spar with Yoruichi (Bleach Volume 18 Chapter 157)+having hundreds of years of experience of training with Hakuda, I don't see anything here that can suggest Benimaru would be alright if Soifon two-hit kills him.
I'd agree with this being a problem if he didn't have the Breath of Life. It's a sixth sense that wouldn't be affected by Sakanade at all
so he could just close his eyes and fight that way. It's been confirmed that he doesn't need to see to fight as well considering he fought the whole recent battle against the White-Clads while wearing a mask with no eyeholes.
No, everything is inverted. Including where the direction of damage is coming from, Aizen already tried to supposedly intercept Shinji but still failed.
Akatsuki would one-shot Gerard 10/10 times if it weren't for his regeneration.
Yep, the Miracle would just make that damage and convert it into strength, which means Gerard would take that Akatsuki, tank it, then take Benimaru to punt him away.
Shunsui doesn't use his Bankai when the other Captains are around.
Your rules.
I'm confident he'd break out of that quick if he did get caught.
His powers would cease though.
It didn't take even a minute of fighting Gerard in his Bankai before his arms started ripping off, so he knocks himself out real quick.
A minute is all that it takes, especially when it's a 13v1.
He doesn't have the feats for that
How come? He's always portrayed as one of Yamamoto's best students and Shunsui's equal. By interpretation alone he can totally be on par Country-Large Country-level characters.
(especially not considering neither of those are projectiles in the first place).
@faradaysloth: All I care to comment on is this for reasons I've stated before:
My friend, I believe you would've presented them already in our CaV, but I'm happy to see any more Benimaru feats to expand my knowledge on Fire Force
You'd be wrong. I held back a bunch of stuff in that match through sheer forgetfulness and to balance it out a bit more. It cost me the debate looking back, but that's alright.
Depending on how you scale Charon sending nakatu blast to the moon, and making a crater in the moon to beni. Country lvl or continental lvl. If you say continental he clear via dc alone, but stop at gotai 13, since the have the speed, number, strength and hax to overwhelm him. Idk about one piece !
If you say continental he clear via dc alone, but stop at gotai 13, since the have the speed
Benimaru should be faster than the lot of them. Charon has relativistic feats and Shinra (who has been blitzed by Benimaru) was even faster than him in their first encounter. I used teams so that his overall speed advantage wouldn't be so apparent.
@killerqueen: What are the relativistic speed feats of Charon? Also the Gotei hax would be too much for him, and the have the dc to keep him abide. But he can one shot most of them . Also speed blitzing Sheeran is impressive, but remember Sheeran best speed feats is with the evangelist’s bless. I would say they are equal in speed!
Charon had been able to defend Haumea after Benimaru used Iai Hand-Sword Form II: Gekkou (which is more or less his version of Solar Flare if we want to reference Dragon Ball). In addition to that, he intercepted Nataku's beam that had been fast enough to reach the moon in a few seconds at most.
but remember Sheeran best speed feats is with the evangelist’s bless
Shinra (if that's who was meant here) would solo all of these characters at once with the Evangelist's Grace, so that isn't a relevant statement in this context. I should mention that Shinra also dodged Nataku's beam without it, so he has a relativistic feat to back what I said about Charon even more.
@killerqueen: I wouldn’t say they are equal or have near the same function than solar flare, in dbz. In even tho solar flare can’t be argue to determine someone’ speed. Yeah I meant shinra, misspelled his name there. Charon sending the blast to the moon doesn’t mean he can move at the speed the blast, reached the moon. He couldn’t dodged , but I agree he can react to high speed movements. Tell me how shinra would beat the gotai ? Regular shinra can’t by pass Charon, flame manipulation or hurt him with out the grace? And how will shinra beat the likes of kenpachi, who survived galaxy room and one shot a large meteor . Or how he will survive hitsugaya freezing abilities, in his adult form he was able to freeze Gerard who was at least mountain size or hill. He can freeze all matter within 4 seconds . So how exactly is he beating them ?
I wouldn’t say they are equal or have near the same function than solar flare, in dbz
You'd be incorrect then.
Charon sending the blast to the moon doesn’t mean he can move at the speed the blast, reached the moon
Charon intercepted a relativistic beam, therefore he could do the same with relativistic attacks. Shinra (who, once again, has been blitzed by Benimaru) was faster than him.
He couldn’t dodged
Charon never tried to dodge it. Shinra did dodge it. You can't debate that.
Tell me how shinra would beat the gotai ?
Shinra can blitz and one-shot all of them with the Evangelist's Grace.
Regular shinra can’t by pass Charon
What? He's done that before.
And how will shinra beat the likes of kenpachi, who survived galaxy room and one shot a large meteor
Neither of those feats can contend with what Shinra has done, but that's a different discussion.
Or how he will survive hitsugaya freezing abilities
Blitz. One-shot. Done.
He can freeze all matter within 4 seconds
Four seconds is a lifetime to someone as fast as Shinra.
Then how you scale someone’s speed from solar flare ?
I re read the chapter! I agree that he can react to high speed movements, but the blast itself didn’t have that speed till Charon manipúlate the blast, even vicktor said how he sent it to the moon . I agree on Charon having that speed at least, via fire control.
Charon speed blitz shiran as well,
So we agree that shinran only way of winning, is with the evangelist’s grace
Then how you scale someone’s speed from solar flare ?
Solar Flare isn't relevant here, it was a comparison. Charon reacted to Gekkou and defended Haumea, which is a relativistic feat no matter how it's looked at.
but the blast itself didn’t have that speed till Charon manipúlate the blast
Incorrect. Charon almost failed to so much as turn it upward, so I don't believe that he also somehow increased its speed to a degree that would be noticable.
even vicktor said how he sent it to the moon
Yeah, but all he did was alter the direction. He didn't add extra force.
via fire control
Charon has never, ever shown other 2nd Generation aptitudes, so this is incorrect as well.
So we agree that shinran only way of winning, is with the evangelist’s grace
An irrelevant statement in the context of this discussion.
@killerqueen: you compared beni technique to the solar flare . Which is doesn’t mean anything, as you can’t scale someone speed from that.
I agree that Charon speed is some how, equal to that of beni
Charon did stopped the attack, the only thing the attack was stated was the damage output and not the speed of the blast.
He doesn’t need any other second generation ability, they can manipulate the flame, however they want.
Viktor himself, was surprised on how he sent the blast to the moon, which mean the blast originally didn’t have that speed. Regardless Charon showed to be faster and stronger than base shinra and as well being able to keep up with benimaru.
It is not irreverent since you want to claim base shinra beat the gotai , base shinra doesn’t hold a candle to the gotei.
As for How the battle goes , I agree that beni should clear , as he scale higher than everyone in fire force right now. And he is stronger than anyone here, but that if you ignore completely the gotei hax.
Yama bankai is able to destroy ss, and we know that by the end they are stronger than the espadas 6 and under who can destroy las noches in bleach.
Yes, because both techniques blind people with light.
Which is doesn’t mean anything, as you can’t scale someone speed from that
You can if someone reacted to it, which is what Charon did.
I agree that Charon speed is some how, equal to that of beni
You're flat-out wrong here. Benimaru has blitzed characters that are faster than Charon.
He doesn’t need any other second generation ability, they can manipulate the flame, however they want
You haven't read Fire Force then, because that isn't true at all.
Charon did stopped the attack, the only thing the attack was stated was the damage output and not the speed of the blast
It reached the moon in a few seconds, which even lowballed is upwards of Mach 100,000.
Viktor himself, was surprised on how he sent the blast to the moon, which mean the blast originally didn’t have that speed
You're on a roll, as that's another incorrect statement. Viktor never mentioned its speed, nor did he claim that it became faster after Charon redirected it to the moon.
Regardless Charon showed to be faster and stronger than base shinra and as well being able to keep up with benimaru
100% Shinra with the Corna couldn't defeat Benimaru and the latter has even blitzed him before. Charon is incomparable to Benimaru in all areas, that's a fact.
It is not irreverent since you want to claim base shinra beat the gotai
@killerqueen: The thing with the technique is the next one, both vegeta and cell had been blinded by the solar flare. Would you claim they would be hit by beni’s ability?
Do you want me to send you, the fire force manga that I have ?
The Second Generation (第二世代, Dainisedai) are people, who have adapted to Spontaneous Human Combustion and were granted the ability to manipulate and control existing flames. and make familiars.
Example shinra and Arthur both can produce their own flames, while maki could only manipulate the flame but not produce them. So tell me how I am wrong ?
I never said vicktor stated the speed of the blast, but it is obvious that Charon caused the blast to move faster. As vicktor himself, wanted to know how he sent it to the moon. The blast was say to leave a 500 kilometer diameter crater.
Charon >>base shinra
Like I said before I agree that Charon can react to high speed movements.
Who had beni speed blitz who is faster than Charon?
You going to say Hibachi Shinmon right ?
My apologies I misread your comment, I thought you say he can beat them without the grace.
As for the battle goes, I already said he clear via dc, but there is the gotai numbers And hax.
Would you claim they would be hit by beni’s ability?
Yeah, there's no real difference between the two.
The Second Generation (第二世代, Dainisedai) are people, who have adapted to Spontaneous Human Combustion and were granted the ability to manipulate and control existing flames. and make familiars
You don't need to paste stuff from the wiki, I know how it works. 2nd Generations don't all have the same level of control as someone like Maki (or even outward control at all like Charon). Takehisa Hinawa, Takigi Oze, and Karim Flam all 3 have hyper specific abilities with their flame control that wouldn't allow them to even move Nataku's beam, which is also true for Charon until he demonstrates that he has that level of control. So far, he hasn't.
Example shinra and Arthur both can produce their own flames, while maki could only manipulate the flame but not produce them. So tell me how I am wrong ?
Shinra and Arthur are both 3rd Generations who aren't relevant here.
I never said vicktor stated the speed of the blast
You used his statement as evidence to support Charon making it faster, which is incorrect.
but it is obvious that Charon caused the blast to move faster
Give me some sort of proof then, because he can't do stuff like that.
The blast was say to leave a 500 kilometer diameter crater
Which is another irrelevant statement, as we know how fast it is even if the characters didn't have direct statements in that regard. It reached the moon in a few seconds at most and there's no evidence that Charon made it move faster after he redirected it.
Charon >>base shinra
Charon isn't faster than base Shinra. He said that Shinra was fast and implied that he himself was slower in their first encounter, so I don't know where this fan fiction scaling is coming from to be entirely honest.
Who had beni speed blitz who is faster than Charon?
Shinra. I've said this three times now.
You going to say Hibachi Shinmon right ?
Hibachi is as fast as Benimaru and was never blitzed at all, so no.
My apologies I misread your comment
You don't have to apologize, people make mistakes.
but there is the gotai numbers And hax
I have no horse in this race as the thread creator, so I won't comment on this part.
@killerqueen: Here the difference the solar flare caught Two characters that are ftl.
The definition of the second generation comes from the manga, just like the third generation . Their abilities are different, but the concept is the same they can manipulate heat and flame. I brought shinra and Arthur to explain this. He also stated was that shinra was nothing without the grace.
Also him saying shinra is fast doesn’t equal him being slower than shinra.
We also saw how he speedblitz him multiple time., and saved shinra multiple times from nakatu’s attacks
The one we saw sent it to the moon was Charon, and the statement from vicktor who was impressive by such feats. So why we believe other wise?
Charon >>base shinra
Beni did blitz him with the nichirin in chapter 229
I know your position, and I gave you my opinion on how the battle go
Here's the difference solar flare caught Two characters that are ftl.
Whether or not DB characters are FTL isn't a debate to be had here.
Their abilities are different, but the concept is the same they can manipulate heat and flame
Yeah, but to varying degrees. You can't prove that Charon could do that without evidence.
What he stated was that Shinra was fast, but he is nothing without grace
Charon calling him fast implies that he was faster, especially in that scene.
Charon >> base Shinra
You've done a piss poor job of proving that.
Beni did blitz him with the nichirin in chapter 229
No, he didn't. Hibachi stood still and let himself die.
Your points have absolutely no evidence behind them. Charon being a 2nd Generation doesn't automatically allow him to control massively powerful flame blasts on the level of Maki (as plenty of other 2nd Generations can only manipulate flame in minuscule ways). It's the same with your wacky speed scaling, as the statements you've provided don't prove much of anything. In any case, this is the last reply I'll make on this thread.
@killerqueen: And that why you can’t use the ability to scale someone speed !
Exactly , it is the same with the third generation. For example burn being stronger than shinra. Charon is clearly above maki, so no point on arguing his abilities to control heat and flame. And again the one we saw pulling the feat was charon, idk why you arguing this. When I said he can react to high speed movement!
Again him calling shinra fast doesn’t equal to him being slower than shinra. We saw how he speedblitz shinra
Poor job proving Charon is above shinra? Just read their fight again and you will see.
Looking back at the context , you right he stood still.
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