Shikamaru vs. Batman
At night? Well, that negates the vast majority of Shikamaru's power, since he relies o his shadow to use his jutsu. Darkness is not shadow. He would need to use an external light source.
So, batman, with Shikamaru's ability crippled by the setting.
Even without though, Batman wins. He has too many resources.
"At night? Well, that negates the vast majority of Shikamaru's power, since he relies o his shadow to use his jutsu. Darkness is not shadow. He would need to use an external light source.Acutally that is exactly what shadows are. An area of darkness because of blocked rays of light. The more shadow there is, the larger Shikamaru's range is and the stronger his shadow jutsu as a result. Even if this weren't the case, there are lamps in central park, no? Shikamaru wins.
So, batman, with Shikamaru's ability crippled by the setting.
Even without though, Batman wins. He has too many resources.
"
"At night? Well, that negates the vast majority of Shikamaru's power, since he relies o his shadow to use his jutsu. Darkness is not shadow. He would need to use an external light source.
So, batman, with Shikamaru's ability crippled by the setting.
Even without though, Batman wins. He has too many resources.
"
Im going to stop you with the beginning of your post here...at no place in Naruto does it say that Shikamaru is limited in ability at night, if anything, due to what he has been shown to be able to do in his fight with Temaru he should be all but invincible at night if his opponent is on the ground. I want to know what makes you think that he wouldn't be able to win against Bats, "too many resources" doesnt really cut it for me
"My bad, there's a full and bright moon that casts shadows."
You are making so your favorite character wins man.
"Super-Buster said:...ya think?..."My bad, there's a full and bright moon that casts shadows."
You are making so your favorite character wins man."
Shikamaru definitely.
No doubt he'd kill Batman. When Batman doesn't even kill.
PLUS, Shikamaru has the shadows :]
But, I mean I love Batman. I just know that Shikamaru would pwn ^_^
I like naruto as much as the next guy but lets look at the facts here. Both are genius. Both are born and bred for battle. One doesn't kill while the other kills. One uses techs while the other is someone who thinks on his feet and given what he could do with limited resources, he could make the best of it to it's maximum potential. All ninja's have a semblance of enhanced body like super strength for example. Don't believe me? Look how high they jump.
And darkness is there key element. And if it's at night, well...Shika wins. And he went head to head against the priest. Now that priest is one deadly mofo. And immortal at that.
Im going to stop you with the beginning of your post here...at no place in Naruto does it say that Shikamaru is limited in ability at night, if anything, due to what he has been shown to be able to do in his fight with Temaru he should be all but invincible at night if his opponent is on the ground. I want to know what makes you think that he wouldn't be able to win against Bats, "too many resources" doesnt really cut it for me "
Well, to begin, i'll state that the resources argument is pretty much a reflection os my ideas on what prompted this matchup: that it is a battle of wits and preperation time. both Batman and Shikamaru are the characters that think steps ahead in their respective series and plan for their battles ahead of time. Other forums I visit label Shikamaru as 'the batman of Naruto' due to this, but I digress. The scenario was left vague enough that i merely threw in my own opinion on the setup.
As for my opinions on Shikamaru's Jutsu, I used to think 'Shikamaru is invincible at night!' also, however after debating this elsewhere I was swayed to the opinion that lack of light = lack of shadow, therefore the Kagemane is useless with a lack of light. Shikamaru needs to control his own shadow, and he cannot control what does not currently exist. The darkness of night is not shadow, its an absence of light. A shadow does not define itself. A shadow is like a negative. It is defined by the light, and the absence of light. He can use an area of darkness to extend his shadow (or in another way of looking at it: he can use another shadow to extend his shadow) but his shadow does not exist unless his opponent is standing in the light at the other end.
This is all conjecture though. the reason I use the resources argument is due to Batmans arsenal. He's an extremely resourceful character. he could swarm the area with bats cutting off lack of sight and rending kagemane useless due to the huge mass of bodies, then procede to attack.. or he could do the same with a smoke bomb, knock-out gas, heck, he could appear in his mecha.
I'm not fond of arguing a characters case in depth, as comic book match ups are always determined by plot. Either character could potentially win, they're both only human. However I am of the opinion that Batman is the more skilled fighter (Shikamaru was never known for his close combat ability or strength) and he has the superior arsenal and willpower. He's also just as much a genius tactician as Shikamaru is, only he's not limited to one trick. He also has a thousand times the battle experience.
"Resonate said'nough said...
Im going to stop you with the beginning of your post here...at no place in Naruto does it say that Shikamaru is limited in ability at night, if anything, due to what he has been shown to be able to do in his fight with Temaru he should be all but invincible at night if his opponent is on the ground. I want to know what makes you think that he wouldn't be able to win against Bats, "too many resources" doesnt really cut it for me "
Well, to begin, i'll state that the resources argument is pretty much a reflection os my ideas on what prompted this matchup: that it is a battle of wits and preperation time. both Batman and Shikamaru are the characters that think steps ahead in their respective series and plan for their battles ahead of time. Other forums I visit label Shikamaru as 'the batman of Naruto' due to this, but I digress. The scenario was left vague enough that i merely threw in my own opinion on the setup.
As for my opinions on Shikamaru's Jutsu, I used to think 'Shikamaru is invincible at night!' also, however after debating this elsewhere I was swayed to the opinion that lack of light = lack of shadow, therefore the Kagemane is useless with a lack of light. Shikamaru needs to control his own shadow, and he cannot control what does not currently exist. The darkness of night is not shadow, its an absence of light. A shadow does not define itself. A shadow is like a negative. It is defined by the light, and the absence of light. He can use an area of darkness to extend his shadow (or in another way of looking at it: he can use another shadow to extend his shadow) but his shadow does not exist unless his opponent is standing in the light at the other end.
This is all conjecture though. the reason I use the resources argument is due to Batmans arsenal. He's an extremely resourceful character. he could swarm the area with bats cutting off lack of sight and rending kagemane useless due to the huge mass of bodies, then procede to attack.. or he could do the same with a smoke bomb, knock-out gas, heck, he could appear in his mecha.
I'm not fond of arguing a characters case in depth, as comic book match ups are always determined by plot. Either character could potentially win, they're both only human. However I am of the opinion that Batman is the more skilled fighter (Shikamaru was never known for his close combat ability or strength) and he has the superior arsenal and willpower. He's also just as much a genius tactician as Shikamaru is, only he's not limited to one trick. He also has a thousand times the battle experience.
"
actually shikamaru is very weak at night its part of the reason the decided to wait till morning to attack the last two sound members during the Sasuke retrieval mission
Shikamaru...like seriously.
Shikamaru beat an S class ninja with no prep.
Batman only knows tai-jutsu, he's no use against a character that is faster and quicker than him.
Shikamaru...like seriously.
Shikamaru beat an S class ninja with no prep.
Batman only knows tai-jutsu, he's no use against a character that is faster and quicker than him.
Who did Pre-timeskip Shikamaru beat that was S-Class?
As for the thread..the shadows actually favor Batman more than Shikamaru as they make it that much easier for Bruce to use stealth tactics. Dissapearing in front of him and taking him down with a couple pressure point strikes shouldn't be at all difficult.
@juiceboks: The heck did it say we were limited to pre-timeskip Shikamaru?
@juiceboks: The heck did it say we were limited to pre-timeskip Shikamaru?
If the specific versions aren't stated then we go with the pictures. And the picture is of Genin Shikamaru.
@juiceboks: Uhm, even still.
Shikamaru also employs genjutsu, is still faster and stronger than Batman and survived a Genin in pre-timeskip.
The only Naruto character that Batman can fight is Rock Lee.
@juiceboks: Uhm, even still.
Shikamaru also employs genjutsu, is still faster and stronger than Batman and survived a Genin in pre-timeskip.
The only Naruto character that Batman can fight is Rock Lee.
Shikamaru doesn't have genjutsu..and what has he done to suggest he's faster and stronger? Shika was one of the worst h2h fighters of the Genin at the time and relied on his jutsu and strategic mind to fight.
How can you say Shikamaru is faster and stronger than Batman, yet state Batman could fight Lee? That makes no sense.
@juiceboks: Yes he does, he just doesn't use it because his stamina is weak.
Have you ever seen Batman move as fast as Naruto characters? Strength is debatable since if you focus chakra on you fist, it multiplies your strength (Like Sakura). As far as taijutsu is concerned, did you know Sasuke and Shikamaru are ranked nearly identical in terms of taijutsu? Shikamaru is just lazy, not bad at Taijutsu.
Batman can fight Lee because it would be a tai-jutsu battle. Lee is an idiot and stands a chance of losing
@juiceboks: Yes he does, he just doesn't use it because his stamina is weak.
Have you ever seen Batman move as fast as Naruto characters? Strength is debatable since if you focus chakra on you fist, it multiplies your strength (Like Sakura). As far as taijutsu is concerned, did you know Sasuke and Shikamaru are ranked nearly identical in terms of taijutsu? Shikamaru is just lazy, not bad at Taijutsu.
Batman can fight Lee because it would be a tai-jutsu battle. Lee is an idiot and stands a chance of losing
When did he ever use genjustu? Or even mention that he could?
I've seen Batman move faster in combat than Shikamaru ever did. Sakura couldn't do that at the time..and Shikamaru isn't Sakura so that's irrelevant anyway. Rank doesn't mean anything if they don't have the feats to back it up, and Shikamaru doesn't. At all. He avoids fighting in general because he's lazy, and h2h fighting because he's not good at it. Besides, Sasuke is ranked 2.5 whereas Shikamaru is 1.5 so I dunno what you're talking about. Choji is also ranked higher than Shikamura and closer to Sasuke..so clearly databooks aren't very reliable.
No he can't..Lee is much faster and stronger than Bruce. Batman is more skilled but that won't help against someone like Lee who isn't an idiot btw.
@superguy1591: The Sound Four guys were far from S-Rank. Which, if I recall correctly, Shiki didn't beat the red-head. Temari did.
Also, Rock Lee is far out of Batman's league. In a purely physical confrontation, Rock Lee would smear batman against the ground. Which is nothing against Batman, Rock Lee is just insanely fast and has ridiculous punching power even without the Gates.
Rock Lee is not an idiot. He is naive. There is a vast difference between the two.
@juiceboks: What are you, nuts? Choji only knows taijutsu (A sumo wrestling style of fighting) with his expansanion technique. He's not Rock Lee, but he's a brawler.
And Shikamaru looks slow because, moving relative to others in that universe, he looks slow. Doesn't mean that Batman can match him.
@wut: Nah, I was talking about Hidan in Shippiden, but he wants to make it fairer to Batman.
The 4 Sound Ninjas were low Jonin(Mid Jonin with Curse Marks), not S-Class. Orochimaru was the only S-Class in the Sound Village.
@juiceboks: What are you, nuts? Choji only knows taijutsu (A sumo wrestling style of fighting) with his expansanion technique. He's not Rock Lee, but he's a brawler.
And Shikamaru looks slow because, moving relative to others in that universe, he looks slow. Doesn't mean that Batman can match him.
All Choji could do during the first couple arcs was his boulder techniques..no h2h skill about that. Even by the Sasuke Retrieval Arc he just used his size to overpower his opponent, not much skill in that either.
He looks slow because he is slow. Relative to people like Sasuke and Lee he's a statue, and relative to Batman he's still slow. You can spin it anyway you want but the fact of the matter is he doesn't have a single notable speed feat to his name at this time. At least none that Batman couldn't match.
@superguy1591: I would put Hidan as one of, if not the, weakest of the Akatsuki. That said, to defeat Hidan took a lot of planning and prep on Shikimaru's part as he was defeated the first time he faced Hidan. He had time to plan out his revenge and how to get around Hidan's immorality. Still, it is a feat.
The sound Four are high-chunin and low-jonin with marks as they fought two mook Leaf Jounin (The two gate guards) and had to go level two mark just to beat them despite outnumbering them two to one.
@juiceboks: Since I am featless for most of my claims, I'll drop them.
But it comes down to brains, Shikamaru still >>>>>> Batman.
@juiceboks: Since I am featless for most of my claims, I'll drop them.
But it comes down to brains, Shikamaru still >>>>>> Batman.
Sure.
Not even. Shikamaru is a great strategist, but Batman supersedes him in every intellectual level. No contest there..
Bruce.
Loses, only because you set the environment in a way that gives Shikamaru an unfair advantage.
Jmarshmallow
@wut: Nah, they're low level Jonin. Shikamaru even said so.
Hidan was still a S-class ninja and he even killed Ashuma sensei, one of the Leaf's highest ranking Jonin and the son of the third Hokage. Let's not limit his feat...
@superguy1591: When did he say they were low-level Jonin? If so, I way underestimated the mook Jonins of the Leaf.
Hidan is the weakest of the Akatsuki. He has to make you bleed on his scythe, and he is incredibly slow by Naruto Ninja standards. He only got Asuma because Asuma did not know about his abilities. If he did, the fight would have gone completely different.
@juiceboks: Lols, no, Shikamaru is a genius. He's arguably the smartest guy in the leaf.
He scored over 200 points on his IQ test and this was even though he wasn't taking it seriously.
Shikamaru is more in Lex's league, not Batman.
@juiceboks: Lols, no, Shikamaru is a genius. He's arguably the smartest guy in the leaf.
He scored over 200 points on his IQ test and this was even though he wasn't taking it seriously.
Shikamaru is more in Lex's league, not Batman.
So is Batman. Being one of the smartest ninjas in a village full of characters that aren't on his level of intelligence isn't as impressive as you're trying to make it.
That's cool I guess, never said he wasn't smart but Batman has done much more to show for his intelligence like hacking Kryptonian and Guardian technology. His Batcomputer can go through thousands of scenarios in seconds to simulate Batman's battles against superpowered individuals he's come across. What has Shikamaru done to showcase his intelligence that puts him so far ahead of Batman?
Hell no he isn't. What has he done to suggest he's as smart as a man who developed a serum to give himself the powers of Superman? Or turn the sun Red to kill off thousands of Kryptonians at once? Or outsmarted Brainiac? Or cloned Doomsday?
Don't make me laugh with this Shikamaru hype.
@juiceboks: Lols, off the top of my head, I'll list some highly intelligent ninjas of the Leaf.
Kakashi, Sakura, Hinata, Neji, Sasuke, Sai, Yamato, Shikaku...
All considered geniuses from a young age.
And Lex is sci-fi, Shikamaru is limited by time...and a lack of interest in anything other than Chess.
@superguy1591: The only one you listed possibly on Shikamaru's level is Kakashi. Still..none of them are as smart as Batman let alone Lex Luthor so it really doesn't matter.
Hinata is no genius and neither is Sakura. They may be prodigies in their respective abilities but as far as pure intellect they're nothing on the level of Shikamura.
That's no excuse for Shikamura. The average tech in Bleach for example isn't anything special but the stuff Mayuri invents is well above most other tech in his world. Lex has also cornered the supervillian and arms market and even became president just because he felt like it. Shikamura hasn't done anything comparable to this..you're making claims without any evidence and showing you don't know that much about Batman or Lex Luthor.
@juiceboks: why compare hinata's intellect with sakura. hinata has not displayed any, sakura is just below kakashi.
@juiceboks: why compare hinata's intellect with sakura. hinata has not displayed any, sakura is just below kakashi.
I didn't compare them. I simply said neither are as smart as Shikamaru.
@juiceboks: Shikaku is smarter than Kakashi, bro. He's the advisor to the Hokage and the one left in charge of field command when the Kages joined the 3rd Shinobi War.
As far as Shikamaru is concerned, you're underselling his intelligence. I'll end this here, Batman and Luthor exist in a modern world with enough PIS to perform marvels that science has yet to dream up.
Shikamaru exists on fuedal Japan...at least, an alternative version. Also, no where does it say Shikamaru CAN'T perform feats of marvel, he just doesn't care.
The guy was first Chinin in his class and could've been Jonin but refused it because it was a "drag".
Also, the Chunin examination prove Sakura and Hinata's intelligence. Both were able to answer questions that Jonin level ninjas would struggle with. I think Sakura even graduate at the top of her class in the Academy. She is able to master concepts that Jonin level ninjas struggle to master and her chakra control surpasses even Tsunade, a genius doctor*.
Add Shino to the list of superbrains from the leaf.
Shikaku is smarter than Kakashi, bro. He's the advisor to the Hokage and the one left in charge of field command when the Kages joined the 3rd Shinobi War.
So he's older, wiser, and has more field experience. None of that necessarily makes him a smarter individual than his son..and again none of this relevant.
As far as Shikamaru is concerned, you're underselling his intelligence. I'll end this here, Batman and Luthor exist in a modern world with enough PIS to perform marvels that science has yet to dream up.
I'm not underselling his intelligence so much as you're overselling it with nothing to back it up. Now you're resorting to calling their feats PIS? Just because they're greater than anything Shikamaru has done even though they make sense in the context of the universe they reside? Cmon now.
Shikamaru exists on fuedal Japan...at least, an alternative version. Also, no where does it say Shikamaru CAN'T perform feats of marvel, he just doesn't care.
Feudal Japan with skycraper-sized amphibians, reanimated soul-stealing statues, and living plants with the ability to replicate themselves a thousand-fold. Somehow superpower granting serums and clones don't seem all that implausible. No where does it state he CAN perform feats in other universes. You'd have to prove that, but you can't. Because there's nothing to suggest so. His laziness is not an excuse..
The guy was first Chinin in his class and could've been Jonin but refused it because it was a "drag".
Is that supposed to be impressive to someone like Lex Luthor? Especially considering ninja ranks aren't solely determined by intellectual aptitude. If they were then Tsunade would be one of the smartest characters in the whole universe..and there's nothing to suggest that's true.
Also, the Chunin examination prove Sakura and Hinata's intelligence. Both were able to answer questions that Jonin level ninjas would struggle with. I think Sakura even graduate at the top of her class in the Academy. She is able to master concepts that Jonin level ninjas struggle to master and her chakra control surpasses even Tsunade, a genius doctor*.
See above. And no..Sakura's not a more powerful or skilled medical ninja than Tsunade. She's done nothing to suggest so..not that any of this is relevant to Shikamaru.
Im gonna be honest I think shikamaru would win my reasoning is that first you need to find the categories which really matter in this fight, so far what I can come up with are: Experience, Finese/training, physical strength/fitness, abilities, Intellect, equipment and resourcefulness. Lets start with the ones i think batman has an edge in. physical strength: absolutely, I think batman takes the edge he is physically stronger than shikamaru and is physically speaking out of his weight class, this does not however mean he hits harder, use of chakra in taijutsu can create a blurred line there, but lets just say batman hits harder, Equipment: with his billions of dollars and lifelong constructed arsenal, im going to say batman takes this one....duh, Experience: I think batman takes the edge, but not to the same degree as people seem to believe, while batman has more years of combat under his belt, those years were pent typically split between being the batman and being bruce wayne, not constantly fighting, with shikamaru, even lazy though he may be, fighting is all that his people due, its what he was raised to due, thats his job thats all he has to concern himself with is fighting its in his culture, so batman may have the edge against a 16 year old or less shikamaru but far more marginally than people think, Training: Contrary to popular belief I believe shikamaru takes the edge in this, even though batman has a considerable amount of training, the general consensus seems to be that he began his training at the age of 15 to the age of 25ish (give or take a year) shikamaru started his ninja training at around the age of 8 and has continued until the age of 16 and beyond, though there is a 2 year difference in batmans favor starting training in ANYTHING at a younger age especially 7 years younger provides a huge advantage this goes for learning a language, mathematics, technology and argueably most of all combat, the xiaolin monks, turkish janisarries and isreali commandos are sufficient evidence of this. How about his hand to hand combat? While batman is a VERY skilled hand to hand combatant, shikamaru is far from useless in melee combat. In the fight between shikamaru and hedan shikamaru holds his own against hedan capable of engaging in close quarters combat without sustaining so much as a scratch, to put that in perspective, Hedan was able to kill Asuma in melee combat while asuma was assisted by other well trained soldiers, asuma, being a close combat specialist and capable of immense spend finesse and most of all strength, in addition to his jutsu would at the bare minimum provide Batman with an immense challenge if not defeat him. So PERHAPS Batman has better melee skills but again only marginally. Intellect: once again in terms of sheer processing ability, shikamaru stands victorious, though as his IQ is considered equal to that of batmans (slightly over 200) on a test shikamaru had no interest in succeeding in and therefore his true mental potential was not even partially discovered, as is a proven fact, attempting to accomplish a mental task whle motivated bears far greater results than when unmotivated, Abilities: It should come as no surprise that I deem Shikamaru as the superior candidate in this category, All capabilities batman has, shikamaru also has and more, Manipulation of shadows to dictate enemy movement and alter the battle field seems to be a pretty useful ability, shikamaru also possesses an ability that batma has but to a much samller extent, which I call IITT (Immediate Intuitive Tactical Thinking) or to put it simply, he can think on his feet. Batman has this capability, but has typically shown it to be limited to a standard strategy finding a weak point or taking high ground etc. Most of his strategies are almost predetermined due to fighting similar foes repeatedly and fighting effective methods to defeat them. When faced with an opponent with unknown abilities or previously not experienced capabilities (Like shikamaru, lets be honest there aren't a whole lot of people with his abilities in the DC universe) he typically is defeated, retreats for a few days, thinks up a strategy and returns for victory. Shikamaru has shown on several occasions that he can think on his feet to devastating effect. The fight in the chunin exams against temari is an excellent example of this (the fight against kin also demonstrates his quick thinking creativity beautifully), but in the fight against temari (a clearly stronger fighter than him) he survives constant barrages of deafening lethal wind blasts while keeping the presence of mind to formulate a strategy to ensnare temari with his shadow possession justsu(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Owt6LiM40nk full fight). This tells us a few things about shikamaru, even at the age of 14! he is clever, capable of using his mind to out wit much stronger opponents, opponents who are far from uninitellegent, he can remain very calm and collected even while facing a seemingly unbeatable opponent, and (leading into my next point) he is reasourceful, As far as being reasorceful goes there can be no question that shikamaru wins, simply because batman is among the least resourceful people in the DC universe. When batman fights a stronger enemy, his most common way to defeat them is to create a device that costs at LEAST thousands of dollars if not millions, the batmobile, Batwing, Bat mech suit etc etc etc shikamaru defeated temari with his jacket, a knife and a hole dug in the ground and an ability which she was already well aware of and was careful to monitor all throughout the fight. He defeated Kin (also at least as powerful as him) in a similar fashion with nothing but wit and a shuriken (and the shuriken was just for show, totally not needed https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsGG0zIh-ko ) in a matter of seconds. In addition batman always carries around his utility belt, from which he can always pull the exact gadget or device he needs in any common scenario, shikamaru defeated an immortal ninja twice his age and experience with nothing but a syringe, explosives, acting chops and again... a hole in the ground, while SIMULTANEOUSLY providing an edge for his comrades off fighting in another battlefield miles away. As I understand this is a no prep fight which means mentally batman would be out matched against shikamaru, even in a fight with prep, shikamaru is one of the best tacticians around, i doubt batman would be able to out plan him regardless of time. What about stealth though? The fight as at night, batmans home turf, he most have an advantage. Not even slightly, first of all there has been no material that says shikamarus abilities are weakened at night, in fact in the fight between him and temari there is evidence to the contrary, as his shadow can present more of a threat as the shadow of the wall grows similar to the shadow the earth casts on itself when it turns away from the sun, but stealth, batman is REMARKABLY stealthy, for a super hero, but bare in mind he learned his stealth techniques from the league of shadows who are ninjas, EVERYONE in the naruto universe is a ninja, they all use stealth and the cover of night to their advantage, batmans stealthing abilities would be par at BEST, in fact i dare say shikamarus surpass his. in short batman has no advantage against shikamaru other than his physical strength and melee fighting (which again is questionable do to chakra and shikamarus melee training as a ninja) and his utility belt of plot convineince, winner shikamaru and at the age of 14 too, if he was older it would be a stomp, not to mention in shikamarus village and world for that matter, if you dont kill your enemy your doing something wrong, batman would at least have some regret about killing a 14 year old
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