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#1 Edited by TheVectorPrime (101 posts) - - Show Bio

Ok let's have an interesting battle. Great white from original Jaws or real life Liopleurodon.

In movie shark was described as 25 feet long and 3 tons heavy. Info in the above video. Although I've came across info that model used for shark was 8m long. So we can use 7.6-8m for lenght.

For Liopleurodon. If you guys think about 25m behemoth from Walking With Dinosaurs on BBC in 1999 think again. That was the biggest lie/false info in the history of popular science tv shows. Sort of like Saint Seiya characters being universe buster(I couldn't resist for this one :-) :-) :-) ) . Size estimate for Liopleurodon is 5-7m in lenght 1-1.7tons in weight. Here is the info https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liopleurodon. Actually the max size estimate based on largest speciment dicsovered so far is 6.39m so our good ol' Jaws is bigger. The 6.39m speciment had a 1.29m long skull in condylobasal length and 1.54 m (5.1 ft) in overall length with big teeth so considering bite force I would give liopleurodon the edge. Anyway Sharky also has huge head with teeth almost as long as whiskey glass (if I remember corectly it was stated as "big as a whiskey glass"in the movie) - for that purpose second video has been posted.

For the battle setting. It's a random encounter food is very scarce and both predators are oportunistic and do their best to take each other out.

So my dear Viners who wins in your opinion ?

NOTE: GREAT WHITE SHARK AKA BRUCE FROM THE JAWS IS CONSIDERED AS A REGULAR GREAT WHITE SHARK OF 7.6M OR 25 FEET. SO FEATS SUCH AS BRUCE PULLING A BOAT IN OPPOSITE DIRECTION, SUBMERGING WITH 3 BARRELS ATTACHED, SINKING THE SHIP SHOULD BE IGNORED, SINCE REAL LIFE GREAT WHITE OF THAT SIZE COULDN'T DO SUCH THINGS. IN ORDER TO ACOMPLISH SUCH FEAT IT WOULD NEED TO BE AT LEAST DOUBLE THE SIZE, WHICH WOULD RESULT IN 8 TIMES THE WEIGHT OR 24TONS.

Above part is not me yelling just highliting the important thing.

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#2 Posted by TheVectorPrime (101 posts) - - Show Bio

Anyone ?

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#3 Posted by AlexTheBoss (15748 posts) - - Show Bio

Google says liopleurodons were 16-23 feet, and Bruce was 25 feet with a giant ass head and extremely high strength, so I would go with him.

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#4 Posted by TheVectorPrime (101 posts) - - Show Bio

Google says liopleurodons were 16-23 feet, and Bruce was 25 feet with a giant ass head and extremely high strength, so I would go with him.

Well the strength feats of shark are way off the scale and basicly a dramatic effects. It would need to be at least twice as big to be able to do all those things. About smaller megalodon size from Meg. Also Liopleurodon should have a bigger head and stronger bite force. Liopleurodon had a croc like heads(although completely unrelated to crocs). And crocs of similar size to regular great white shark have a greater bite force than shark. But shark should be more agile and faster, since pliosauruses (Liopleurodon belongs in that group) weren't particulary fast. They were ambush predators.

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#5 Posted by AlexTheBoss (15748 posts) - - Show Bio

@thevectorprime:

Well the strength feats of shark are way off the scale and basicly a dramatic effects.

That just means Bruce is stronger than a real shark.

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#6 Posted by TheVectorPrime (101 posts) - - Show Bio

@thevectorprime:

Well the strength feats of shark are way off the scale and basicly a dramatic effects.

That just means Bruce is stronger than a real shark.

As I said great white the size of the Bruce couldn't do anything Bruce displayed during action sequences on the open sea with Quint, Brody and Cooper. For a shark to be able to pull and sink the ship of that size (even if it's just 8m ship) you would need to double the lenght and all other proportions(girth). So 7.6x2=15.2m Megalodon size. Doubling the lenght and other proportions would result in aproximately 8 times the more weight so 24 tons. At that weight would those strength feats be plausible.

So from now on let's consider Bruce as regular great white shark of 25 feet or 7.6m.

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#7 Posted by AlexTheBoss (15748 posts) - - Show Bio

@thevectorprime: Then you should change the title, as Bruce is not a real life shark. In movies, even if things are supposed to be normal, that doesn't mean they are. For example Black Widow in the Marvel movies. No woman, no matter how skilled they are, could ever do what she does, period. That doesn't mean in a VS battle with Black Widow you down grade her to real woman level, that makes no sense.

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#8 Posted by TheVectorPrime (101 posts) - - Show Bio

@alextheboss: I edited the rules of engagement almost 20h ago.

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#9 Posted by AlexTheBoss (15748 posts) - - Show Bio
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#10 Posted by TheVectorPrime (101 posts) - - Show Bio

@alextheboss: So far 1:0 for the shark. Let's make it 2:0, since I am leaning towards the shark also. After a good fight. But a good snap from Liopleurodon would turn the table.

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#11 Posted by Thatoneguy887 (1098 posts) - - Show Bio

Shark. Stronger overall, faster, more agile.

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#12 Posted by TheVectorPrime (101 posts) - - Show Bio

Shark. Stronger overall, faster, more agile.

Stronger debatable. I would say that Liopleurodon should still be stronger(bigger head and jaws). We dismiss the supershark feats :-) (nice superhuman reference by the way ) from the movie and asume this is just a regular great white of 7.6-8m (although they come nowhere near this size in nature). Shark being faster probably. More agile than Liopleurodon definetly.

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#13 Posted by Thatoneguy887 (1098 posts) - - Show Bio

@thevectorprime: lmao. Wasn't talking about the super shark, pun was intended though.

Somewhere around 85% (on average) of a typical sharks weight is muscle.

Also, this being a great white, the white muscle has bands of red muscle in it, allowing for longer swimming at higher speeds.

If I remember rightly the lio has not been theorized to have an equivalent muscle to weight or even mass ratio.....

If the lio manages to sink it's jaws in, it might be over for the shark, but I hold the opinion the shark should be able to break away from he first time with damage, but not significant enough to lose the fight, but that's me, I digress.

All in all, main thing I see the hit and run bites from the shark bleeding out the lio first 99/100.

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#14 Posted by TheVectorPrime (101 posts) - - Show Bio
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#15 Posted by Kirkseven (2074 posts) - - Show Bio

The largest Liopleurodon is nearly 8 meters long and should be similar or larger than the shark here.

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#16 Edited by TheVectorPrime (101 posts) - - Show Bio

@kirkseven said:

The largest Liopleurodon is nearly 8 meters long and should be similar or larger than the shark here.

Debatable. So far the longest skull of Liopleurodon is 1.26m, and it belong to adult speciment. Based on that skull scientists extrapolated that lenght should be 6.39m, since skull lenght is 1/5 of entire length. We know that since there is almost complete Liopleurodon skeleton of about 4.8m, from which it was concluded that Liopleurodon skull is 1/5 of it's lenght (based on that skeleton I think scientists concluded that entire Pliosauridae family has that skull lenght to total lenght ratio).

So average length for Liopleurodon is around 5m with max lenght from speciment almost 6.4m. In my opinion Liopleurodon could be up to 7-7.1m as theoretical max for Liopleurodon species, for some uber big speciment. That's based on data we have, scientific opinion and plain logic, since so far no where in nature we have a situation that in some species we have healthy adult speciments which can have almost 2 times greater proportions than average speciment- this would result in almost 8 times the weight difference(inverse square law). Or to be more precise average Liopleurodon 5m lenght about 1 ton weight. Speciment of 8m lenght is 1.6 times longer, so it would be almost 1.6^3 times heavier or 4 times heavier, based on inverse square law. On a side note I said almost since it would be less than 4 times but more than 3 times for more accurate measurement.

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#17 Posted by Kirkseven (2074 posts) - - Show Bio

@thevectorprime:

Debatable. So far the longest skull of Liopleurodon is 1.26m, and it belong to adult speciment.

Actually the longest skull is 1.54 meters as per this: https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0065989

Since the skull length is 1/5 of its body, we get ~7.7 meters for it's length. (which I simply rounded)

average Liopleurodon 5m lenght about 1 ton weight.

McHenry estimates NHM R2680 (the Liopleurodon with the ~1.12-meter skull) at ~1736 liters (over twice that of the average adult great white), scaling this up to the ~1.54-meter skull yields around ~4513 liters. It can be safely assumed that pliosaurs are similar in density to water, so we get roughly ~4.5 tonnes.

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#18 Posted by xMangog__Beastx (4209 posts) - - Show Bio

Probably Jaws.

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#19 Posted by TheVectorPrime (101 posts) - - Show Bio

@thevectorprime:

Debatable. So far the longest skull of Liopleurodon is 1.26m, and it belong to adult speciment.

Actually the longest skull is 1.54 meters as per this: https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0065989

Since the skull length is 1/5 of its body, we get ~7.7 meters for it's length. (which I simply rounded)

average Liopleurodon 5m lenght about 1 ton weight.

McHenry estimates NHM R2680 (the Liopleurodon with the ~1.12-meter skull) at ~1736 liters (over twice that of the average adult great white), scaling this up to the ~1.54-meter skull yields around ~4513 liters. It can be safely assumed that pliosaurs are similar in density to water, so we get roughly ~4.5 tonnes.

Well that 1.54m lenght referes to the same 6.39m specimen . You can check my first post I've written that information. Point is specimen NMH R3536 is the largest specimen found so far. It has condylobasal lenght(lenght from the tip of the upper jaw to the back of the skull, where it connects to the fisrt vertebra) of skull of 1.26m and lenght of the lower jaw is 1.54m. Pliosauruses(Liopleurodon belongs to this group) have longer lower jaw than condylobasal lenght of the skull. You can check all the info here on the wiki link I gave in my fist post. And condylobasal lenght is the lenght which plays role in that 1/5 ratio of skull lenght and total lenght. I didn't want to go as much in detail in my post so I've simply written skull lenght. Anyway that 1.54m skull lenght(overall length when lower jaw comes into play) belongs to the 6.39m estimated specimen NHM R3536 - you can check that on the wiki link I provided.

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#20 Posted by Kirkseven (2074 posts) - - Show Bio

@thevectorprime:

Well that 1.54m lenght referes to the same 6.39m specimen

Really? where? I don't remember reading anything about that. If it is true, then the ''skull length is 1/5 of its body'' stuff is nonsense.

you can check that on the wiki link I provided.

I don't see a link.

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#21 Posted by TheVectorPrime (101 posts) - - Show Bio

@kirkseven: I edited my fist post. I didn't create link, so it was plain text. Anyway it's a page from wikipedia, but here we go again :-) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liopleurodon. In the size paragraph you'll find the following text: However, new research on Kronosaurus[10] and the finding of a complete skeleton of L. ferox show that their skulls were actually about one-fifth of their total body length,[1] which suggests a maximum known total body length of 6.39 m (21.0 ft) based on NHM R3536, the largest known skull at 1.26 m (4.1 ft) in condylobasal length[1] (1.54 m (5.1 ft) in overall length[13]).

About 1/5 ratio it's not nonsense, since completel Liopleurodon skeleton provided basis for such claim.

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#22 Posted by Kirkseven (2074 posts) - - Show Bio
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#23 Posted by Vulkanian (516 posts) - - Show Bio

I have a giant ass Dinosaur encyclopedia from 2002 that says Liopleurodon can grow up to over 20m.

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#24 Posted by TheVectorPrime (101 posts) - - Show Bio

@vulkanian: Nowdays they grow from 5m to 6.4m . Possibly up to 7m as a theoretical max for the specie :-) . But sometimes you might find a 20m+ specimen lurking in the murky waters of outdated data :-) .

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#25 Posted by TheVectorPrime (101 posts) - - Show Bio

Let's bump this one with some additional info. Size of the Liopleurodon teeth. Here are some pics.

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Here is Liopleurodon skeleton I belive that it's about 5m long with skull about 1.12m length. As you can see it has massive teeth, although only crowns are shown. Just how massive you might wonder. Well the longest teeth(crown lenght + root lengtht) should be this big:

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At the bottom pic should be the longest teeth. Again those are teeth with visible roots. Here are links for those pics to confirm that it's Liopleurodon.

first pic : https://twitter.com/john_pickrell/status/84789161441667891

second pic :https://twitter.com/dinosven/status/1017754319016398848

third pic: https://twitter.com/george_gorilla/status/565208724273639425 but this link: http://dinotoyblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=3388.0 states different info about which Pliosaurid the tooth belongs. And second link states 22cm for tooth length. Also the second link claims that in London Museum exist even larger Liopleurodon tooth, with total lenght(crown + root) of 35cm - and for that one I haven't provided any pics. There is also a third link(but in this case is about sale of tooth replica): https://www.theprehistoricstore.com/products/liopleurodon-massive-22cm-tooth-replica which again states that tooth belong to Liopleurodon with Liopleurodon skull in the background and confirms 22cm lenght.

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#26 Posted by spiderboi038 (22 posts) - - Show Bio

Jaws curbstomps. Jaws' feats are unfathomable for a great white and for animals in general.

Also this is what we have size wise:

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Strength outclasses

Deemed virtually impossible for any type of shark to do this

Keeping the three barrels was deemed impossible for a great white shark, yet Bruce does it for hours on hours.

Was easily able to capsize the Orca by landing on it, the Orca is 40 feet long

Bruce was also able to destroy a metal shark cage with ease, pull apart a dock with ease, and was able to bite through piano wire. So the strength category completely outclasses.

Speed outclasses

Great white's top speed are 35 miles per hour, which is actually faster than Killer Whales. And Bruce might be even faster considering his enormous strength.

Durability outclasses

Was shot by Quint's Greener Light Harpoon Gun 3 times without showing any signs of injury

Shrugged off being shot in the head by Brody's Smith & Wesson Model 15

Also took a prolonging stabbing to the side of the mouth by Quint

He was also able to take multiple stabbings to the snout by Brody from a lance.

Couple all of these feats with the hunting techniques shown in the movie, Ampullae of Lorenzini AND a Lateral Line...

Ampullae of Lorenzini

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Lateral Line

Image result for lateral line shark

Jaws absolutely curbstomps.

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#27 Posted by spiderboi038 (22 posts) - - Show Bio

@thevectorprime: Then you should change the title, as Bruce is not a real life shark. In movies, even if things are supposed to be normal, that doesn't mean they are. For example Black Widow in the Marvel movies. No woman, no matter how skilled they are, could ever do what she does, period. That doesn't mean in a VS battle with Black Widow you down grade her to real woman level, that makes no sense.

Very very very true, if that is the case it's no longer a Jaws versus Lio fight, its a normal great white vs lio fight.

& the great white would still win that fight btw.

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#28 Posted by Koays (10156 posts) - - Show Bio

the sharks "jaws" are just to bi. it bites a fin and damn near cripples lio.