Shaman Nate Grey Vs. The Silver Surfer

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RiseofApocalypse

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#1  Edited By RiseofApocalypse

X-Man at his Shaman stage vs the second herald of Galactus. 
 
Who wins?

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Hellos

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#2  Edited By Hellos

Norrin, mainly because of the beat down he gave God Mode Cable and Nate not really wowing me when he ran into the Dark Avengers.
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The Mjolnir Wielder

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@Hellos said:

"Norrin, mainly because of the beat down he gave God Mode Cable and Nate not really wowing me when he ran into the Dark Avengers. "

Fighting Norrin wasn't Cable's top priority in that arc
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morpheus_

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#4  Edited By morpheus_  Moderator
Silver Surfer. As an energy manipulator of the highest level, he could disrupt Nate's psionic form and incapacitate him, or drain the psionic energy from him in order to temporarily depower him, much like Weapon Omega, and Mimic did recently. Nate as the Shaman holds far greater experience than his original self, but the Surfer has perfected his mastery of the power cosmic through the eons. I give him the edge.
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#5  Edited By Hellos
@The Mjolnir Wielder said:
"@Hellos said:

"Norrin, mainly because of the beat down he gave God Mode Cable and Nate not really wowing me when he ran into the Dark Avengers. "

Fighting Norrin wasn't Cable's top priority in that arc "

Didn't seem to be at all able to stop him from taking him on a trip across the globe to burn out said powers.  
Sure Cable attempted to reason with him as he I believe(not sure if Norrin was helping) was repairing the damage they did the moment they did it. He tried to go on the offensive, broke his board and then got eye beamed.
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morpheus_

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#6  Edited By morpheus_  Moderator
@Hellos said:
" @The Mjolnir Wielder said:
"@Hellos said:

"Norrin, mainly because of the beat down he gave God Mode Cable and Nate not really wowing me when he ran into the Dark Avengers. "

Fighting Norrin wasn't Cable's top priority in that arc "
Didn't seem to be at all able to stop him from taking him on a trip across the globe to burn out said powers.  Sure Cable attempted to reason with him as he I believe(not sure if Norrin was helping) was repairing the damage they did the moment they did it. He tried to go on the offensive, broke his board and then got eye beamed. "
Both the Surfer and Cable were repairing Providence down to the molecular level, via telekinesis and the power cosmic.
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Hellos

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#7  Edited By Hellos

Oh okay then it's been a long while since I've seen their little fight so I wasn't exactly sure if both where fixing the damage they did.
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daak1212

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#8  Edited By daak1212


Why exactly were Cable and Surfer fighting again?  Im going with Sufer.  He did beat Savior Cable before his power amp in Anihilation and I heard on here that SC has more raw power than Nate
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Lance Uppercut

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#10  Edited By Lance Uppercut
@Morpheus_ said:

" Silver Surfer. As an energy manipulator of the highest level, he could disrupt Nate's psionic form and incapacitate him, or drain the psionic energy from him in order to temporarily depower him, much like Weapon Omega, and Mimic did recently. Nate as the Shaman holds far greater experience than his original self, but the Surfer has perfected his mastery of the power cosmic through the eons. I give him the edge. "

 I agree that Surfer wins, but the end of Dark X-Men was well... silly. Weapon Omega and Mimic were nothing to him for basically four  issues. Being drained by either of them when simply being in his presence had overloaded Omega before seemed off to me. As well as it being a plan that the Green Goblin came up with.
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JediXMan

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#11  Edited By JediXMan  Moderator

I'm going with Surfer.

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morpheus_

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#12  Edited By morpheus_  Moderator
@Lance Uppercut said:
" @Morpheus_ said:

" Silver Surfer. As an energy manipulator of the highest level, he could disrupt Nate's psionic form and incapacitate him, or drain the psionic energy from him in order to temporarily depower him, much like Weapon Omega, and Mimic did recently. Nate as the Shaman holds far greater experience than his original self, but the Surfer has perfected his mastery of the power cosmic through the eons. I give him the edge. "

 I agree that Surfer wins, but the end of Dark X-Men was well... silly. Weapon Omega and Mimic were nothing to him for basically four  issues. Being drained by either of them when simply being in his presence had overloaded Omega before seemed off to me. As well as it being a plan that the Greeen Goblin came up with. "
The only justification I can find in context of the story, is that Nate got overconfident, by presuming he had Osborn beat. Still, even though I do agree the ending to the series was off for my taste, I consider it a valid option for the Surfer to win, despite seemingly being far-fetched to pull off by Pointer and Mimic. Another point of view on the matter, would be that Nate expended an amount of pisonic energy in his mental duel with Osborn, and the fatigue was a crucial factor as to why he was drained.
 
That being said, Osborn holding his own in a mental fight against Nate Grey is what is silly to begin with.
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texasdeathmatch

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#13  Edited By texasdeathmatch
@Morpheus_: Yeah, probably not the best way to rotate X-Man back into the books. And Osborn was "too insane" for Nate to handle? Give me a break
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Lance Uppercut

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#14  Edited By Lance Uppercut
@Morpheus_ said:
" @Lance Uppercut said:
" @Morpheus_ said:

" Silver Surfer. As an energy manipulator of the highest level, he could disrupt Nate's psionic form and incapacitate him, or drain the psionic energy from him in order to temporarily depower him, much like Weapon Omega, and Mimic did recently. Nate as the Shaman holds far greater experience than his original self, but the Surfer has perfected his mastery of the power cosmic through the eons. I give him the edge. "

 I agree that Surfer wins, but the end of Dark X-Men was well... silly. Weapon Omega and Mimic were nothing to him for basically four  issues. Being drained by either of them when simply being in his presence had overloaded Omega before seemed off to me. As well as it being a plan that the Greeen Goblin came up with. "
The only justification I can find in context of the story, is that Nate got overconfident, by presuming he had Osborn beat. Still, even though I do agree the ending to the series was off for my taste, I consider it a valid option for the Surfer to win, despite seemingly being far-fetched to pull off by Pointer and Mimic. Another point of view on the matter, would be that Nate expended an amount of pisonic energy in his mental duel with Osborn, and the fatigue was a crucial factor as to why he was drained.
 
That being said, Osborn holding his own in a mental fight against Nate Grey is what is silly to begin with.
"
Valid for Surfer? Absolutely. Valid for those two after the abysmal showings they had against him? It appears as though we agree on this front. As well as Osborn posing any sort of mental challenge to him.
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morpheus_

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#15  Edited By morpheus_  Moderator
@Lance Uppercut said:
Valid for Surfer? Absolutely. Valid for those two after the abysmal showings they had against him? It appears as though we agree on this front. As well as Osborn posing any sort of mental challenge to him. "
Truth be told, I am glad he is back, and I enjoyed Dark X-Men, but the final issue left a bad aftertaste.
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#16  Edited By JediXMan  Moderator
@Morpheus_ said:
" @Lance Uppercut said:
Valid for Surfer? Absolutely. Valid for those two after the abysmal showings they had against him? It appears as though we agree on this front. As well as Osborn posing any sort of mental challenge to him. "
Truth be told, I am glad he is back, and I enjoyed Dark X-Men, but the final issue left a bad aftertaste. "
I agree completely.
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vuviper

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#17  Edited By vuviper

@Morpheus_ said:

@Hellos said:
" @The Mjolnir Wielder said:
"@Hellos said:

"Norrin, mainly because of the beat down he gave God Mode Cable and Nate not really wowing me when he ran into the Dark Avengers. "

Fighting Norrin wasn't Cable's top priority in that arc "
Didn't seem to be at all able to stop him from taking him on a trip across the globe to burn out said powers. Sure Cable attempted to reason with him as he I believe(not sure if Norrin was helping) was repairing the damage they did the moment they did it. He tried to go on the offensive, broke his board and then got eye beamed. "
Both the Surfer and Cable were repairing Providence down to the molecular level, via telekinesis and the power cosmic.

Which comic can I find this in?

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morpheus_

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#18  Edited By morpheus_  Moderator
@vuviper said:

@Morpheus_ said:

@Hellos said:
" @The Mjolnir Wielder said:
"@Hellos said:

"Norrin, mainly because of the beat down he gave God Mode Cable and Nate not really wowing me when he ran into the Dark Avengers. "

Fighting Norrin wasn't Cable's top priority in that arc "
Didn't seem to be at all able to stop him from taking him on a trip across the globe to burn out said powers. Sure Cable attempted to reason with him as he I believe(not sure if Norrin was helping) was repairing the damage they did the moment they did it. He tried to go on the offensive, broke his board and then got eye beamed. "
Both the Surfer and Cable were repairing Providence down to the molecular level, via telekinesis and the power cosmic.

Which comic can I find this in?

Cable & Deadpool # 10.
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vuviper

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#19  Edited By vuviper

@Morpheus_: Cool, thank you Morpheus

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morpheus_

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#20  Edited By morpheus_  Moderator
@vuviper: Anytime, my friend.
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Nightwing_1234

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So if nate is more powerful then cable, and he wouldn't be multitasking, then why cant he just mind rape surfer?

i know he resisted cable, but if nate went all out i think he could wreck him there.

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Stompa

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#22  Edited By Stompa

@nightwing_1234: if it comes to surfer and telepathy it gets tricky. I believe it was killmall who posted some scans. On the one hand there was a scan showing SS on the astral plain claiming that there he is da boss and quite unbeatable before laying the smack on some uber psionic entity (IIRC) and some other shows psionics working fine on him like the wraith queen using a telepathic assault when he was with the annihilators.

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X_insignia1

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@stompa said:

@nightwing_1234: if it comes to surfer and telepathy it gets tricky. I believe it was killmall who posted some scans. On the one hand there was a scan showing SS on the astral plain claiming that there he is da boss and quite unbeatable before laying the smack on some uber psionic entity (IIRC) and some other shows psionics working fine on him like the wraith queen using a telepathic assault when he was with the annihilators.

eh, Nate has his own monstrous telepathic feats and is generally held in regard to being the top telepath in marvel (above professor X), For example manipulating the astral plane in such a form that he could create physical constructs from astral energy. Moreover I believe Nate overpowered 9 monstrous telepaths (before atomizing them) moreover he can easily burn through psionic blocks, and inhibitors, and has telepathy on the multiversal scale. His appearance also caused a ripple in the pisonic plane due to his energy output, that whiplashed top tier psychics such as professor X and Jean grey.

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X_insignia1

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#24  Edited By X_insignia1

And does surfer have an answer to Nate's planck length perception/ time manipulation?

Also using cable as a bench mark to Judge Nate is not the best bet considering that Cable himself admitted that Nate surpasses all of his psionic potential. Meaning Cable without the T/O is still infefior to Nate. Nate has displayed a plethora of other abilities, such as his psi form, astral manipulation, and reality manipulation abilities.

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The_Titan_Lord

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SS

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Nightwing_1234

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#26  Edited By Nightwing_1234

yeah, i think i would give this round to nate via mind rape/ astral plane battle.

id give him 6/10 because surfer still has vast powers to wreck him with as well

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Nightwing_1234

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whats everyone else think?

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@stompa said:

@nightwing_1234: if it comes to surfer and telepathy it gets tricky. I believe it was killmall who posted some scans. On the one hand there was a scan showing SS on the astral plain claiming that there he is da boss and quite unbeatable before laying the smack on some uber psionic entity (IIRC) and some other shows psionics working fine on him like the wraith queen using a telepathic assault when he was with the annihilators.

eh, Nate has his own monstrous telepathic feats and is generally held in regard to being the top telepath in marvel (above professor X), For example manipulating the astral plane in such a form that he could create physical constructs from astral energy. Moreover I believe Nate overpowered 9 monstrous telepaths (before atomizing them) moreover he can easily burn through psionic blocks, and inhibitors, and has telepathy on the multiversal scale. His appearance also caused a ripple in the pisonic plane due to his energy output, that whiplashed top tier psychics such as professor X and Jean grey.

Eh alright but i didn´t even say SS would win or anything like that. I don´t know Jack about Shaman Nate so i can´t properly debate on who would win i only tried to say that when it get´s to telepathy and SS things get a bit inconsistent. I looked up the scan on the astral plane and found it in a thread where Hellos posted it.....sorry but i can´t find the pages prior or after that scan so you just have to believe me it´s on the astral plane. :-)

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#29  Edited By JediXMan  Moderator

@nightwing_1234 said:

So if nate is more powerful then cable, and he wouldn't be multitasking, then why cant he just mind rape surfer?

i know he resisted cable, but if nate went all out i think he could wreck him there.

He's not winning that way. The Surfer has shown to be extremely powerful while on the astral plane, and he has good telepathic feats, as well. At the absolute least, Surfer is capable of blocking Nate long enough for him to disperse his energy body.

There's no scenario where Surfer would lose to Nate, unless an outside source somehow weakened him, which is not the case in this battle.

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JediXMan

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#30 JediXMan  Moderator

And does surfer have an answer to Nate's planck length perception/ time manipulation?

Does Nate? Surfer can do the same thing...

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#31  Edited By HellionVulcan

The Dark X-men ending was pis as i wish Marvel didn't ruin X-man the way they did but i will give Silver surfer the edge .

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X_insignia1

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@jedixman said:

@nightwing_1234 said:

So if nate is more powerful then cable, and he wouldn't be multitasking, then why cant he just mind rape surfer?

i know he resisted cable, but if nate went all out i think he could wreck him there.

He's not winning that way. The Surfer has shown to be extremely powerful while on the astral plane, and he has good telepathic feats, as well. At the absolute least, Surfer is capable of blocking Nate long enough for him to disperse his energy body.

There's no scenario where Surfer would lose to Nate, unless an outside source somehow weakened him, which is not the case in this battle.

Nate has been shown to be extremely powerful in the astral plane as well. And Nate has drained psionic beings of mental energy leaving them as empty husk. He has energy absorption as well. Moreover the astral plane is the source of Nate's abilities as well. With that being said, given that the astral plane may be the source of the power cosmic (which seems a bit off) I don't see why he shouldn't be able to manipulate the energy source as well.

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X_insignia1

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@jedixman said:

@x_insignia1 said:

And does surfer have an answer to Nate's planck length perception/ time manipulation?

Does Nate? Surfer can do the same thing...

Does surfer? I've never heard or seen any instance where Surface is literally allowed to step out of time. Moreover while I have heard of surfer time traveling, I heard he has to build momentum to do so, while Nate is more so able to do so on the fly. He is also able to create isolated time freezes. With the planck length ability he could completely wipe out surfer's timeline. And is surfer capable of crossing the barrier of different realities? because I could see Nate easily delivering a bfr. And as a trump card Nate is a certified reality warper if all else fails.

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Nightwing_1234

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*surfer. not surface

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I'm finding this weird did yall read what jean said about Nate.... He is the most power telekinetic and in any verse... Surfer will not touch him in the astral plain and where talking about a person that was able to scan thanos brain and not many people are capable of doing that.... Granted both the power cosmic and psionic powers come from the astral plain. But this would be a grueling fight and I think Nate would cone out on top in this one. But it can go either way to be honest.

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Nate

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#37 chiq  Online

bump

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mr-luxcipher

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#38  Edited By mr-luxcipher

Shaman X-Man showings:

Is referred to as a "living god". Was "created to destroy worlds", and Harvester Alien(who's power is derived from the earth) admits Grey'd in all likelihood beat him.

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Has precognition, so thorough Mimic found it overwhelming. Can instantaneously teleport himself and others(together, or independently).

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Can teleport between universes. Able to reanimate the dead.

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Endows others with telepathic-resistance. Jean Grey finds his power overwhelming. Can travel and exist beyond reality.

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Telekinesis felt across Asia. Drains others of their psychic-power.

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Power referred to as able to "devour the universe. Every universe...". Manifests in Qabiri's mind. Pinpoints a psychic, and kills her. Plummets from orbit, and is (physically) fine.

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His self-destruction would destroy a large chunk of reality/existence with him. Stomps Scorpion/Venom easy as touching them. Goes full Jesus.

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Merges 3 people's psychic energy into one body. Is virtually-omniscient and omnipresent. Tanks a blast from Harvester Alien with no issue.

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Telepathy extends to technology. Exercises psychometry(basically, when in contact with an item he can divine it's entire past and future). Is beyond practical human needs.

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Comes back from death after maintaining as astral-energy.

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Exhibits telepathy on a multiversal-scale. Telepathically discerns Earth-1's history, and shows he doesn't need a physical-form/is beyond physical harm.

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Constructed a body from siphoned psychic energy. Norman Osborn considered him to much of a threat to be kept at large. Referenced(repeatedly) as "near omnipotent".

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VS Dark Avengers.

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ginman333

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This isnt much of a fight. Nate easy

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Lord-Parallax

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Nate stomps.

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risingtide

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Shaman Nate.

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Supermanwithatan01

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Nate wins

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GIliad_

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Norrin

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Nate

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omriamar

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Shaman

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Lordflawlez

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I was really pissed off about people's ignorance about nate. Saying surfer beats him? That's a stupid joke.

Nate would destroy surfer EASILY if he's going all out. Surfer dsnt deserve to be mentioned in the same breath as nate

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I was really pissed off about people's ignorance about nate. Saying surfer beats him? That's a stupid joke.

Nate would destroy surfer EASILY if he's going all out. Surfer dsnt deserve to be mentioned in the same breath as nate

Hahahaha. Please enlighten me.

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#50  Edited By CitizenSentry

@supermanwithatan01 said:

@citizensentry: you don't think Nate can take Norrin?

Nope. He has little to no way to harm him. Surfer on the other hand has plenty of ways to hurt Nate.