Selene vs Exodus

Rounds & Rules

-Selene does not have the Necrosha Amp.

-Fight to the Full Extent of their Powers. No Holding back.

-Win by Death/KO/Incap

Location:

-Abandoned City.

Exodus.

Selene is more versatile but Exodus significantly outclasses her in telepathy and telekinesis.

Exodus

Really? Even with her ability to manipulate Dark Force Energy?

Eh, 50/50

Si

@mooty_pass: A preview of an upcoming issue shows Selene using Darkforce energy on Exodus and he blocks it with TK.

@geekryan: I saw that. However, she could still use that Energy to teleport or morph her body with it. You don't think she can't port inside his Shields?

Has never done that before, as far as I can recollect….I don’t think I’ve seen teleporters ever do that to opponents. Maybe with giant building sized shields, but not against opponents……

A weak version of Rachel Summers beat Selene already.

I think it's a toss up. Selene is more versatile while Exodus has more raw power. Flip a coin. Selene being able to telaport and use dark energy vs Exodus TK/TP I can see both taking it. Very even match up

Exodus wins only because of tp

Exodus

Selene has a chance if she's fighting to fullest and not holding back. She's been kinda magic leaning these days and her point in Immortal X-men 1 was the rest of the council (which included Exodus) were lacking magically. She then proved it by summoning a kaiju. Since that seemed to be something she did on the fly, if Exodus doesn't take her down fast and hard he could end up fighting her magic which will be in the form of a monster he can't beat even if he suicide bombs it, because it'll just keep regenerating.

If current Exodus is anything like 90s levels, greater tp/tk and life force drain.

she had some deal with mother righteous for that kaiju summon

Gallery

@marvelfan1992: even so the deal was for more power or whatever she needed to summon it. Mother Righteous deals involving amps seem to stay unless she recinds the power because you broke her pact. This battle would be after the pact and from what we've seen of her and granting power there's no reason to believe Selene doesn't still possess the "mystic punch" to repeat it. So until we find out exactly what Mother Righteous did or what the pact entailed there's no reason to think Selene would make a pact for a one time thing that she didn't know she'd have to summon until she did.

Unless of course I missed the details of the pact. Feel free to correct me though I have been guilty of skipping over shit in the past.

This is a good point I completely forgot about.

selene loses

Selene wins. Narration in Immortal X-men explicitly showed that The Quite Council could not breach her mindscape or coerce her to call off the Kajuu. Only when she was resurrected did Exodus telepathically assault her, but the words were clear as day; neither of them could take her on telepathically unless she was off-guard.

Her, in a focused mindset, takes this.

@bigbaby: No.

Judgement Day Shaw issue revealed that Selene received additional power from a deal with Mother Righteous.

@koays:

That's not what I said or referenced. I'm talking about TP, you're talking about a completely different and irrelevant matter. I never denied that she was amped when summoning the Kajuu, I merely used it as an objective reference point for TP being ineffective in the current stipulations of the battle.

If Xavier and Emma could have telepathically forced her to deactivate the Kajuu, they would have done it, but they did not. Mother Righteous never amped her mental defenses, and Exodus only succeded against an off-guard Selene.

It's not objective because Selene had an unspecified amp.

She summoned the Kaiju and immediately left to the otherside of the planet. As far as statements all we have is Hope saying she has magical protections and that she's a "pretty mean telepath".

Xavier has over powered or chased Selene off twice just with his presence. Rachel Summers has chased her off and defeated her as a much weaker teen telepath. Freaking Doop has contended with her.

The magical protections while amped is already a hole in your logic, feats are another massive hole. But not doing something is not proof of the inability to do something. Something which is spelled out in kaiju issue via Storm and Magneto.

Exodus literally just fodderized Selene in the Xmen recent issue

@koays:

It's not objective because Selene had an unspecified amp.

She made a one-time deal for a Kajuu summoning spell multiple issues before, readers are not enlightened about any other 'power amps', nor are we told to assume so.

Those formidable psychic defenses are also referenced right after her resurrection and her captivity. That's an instance where she can't be amped since we see her have no contact with Mother Righteous. Furthermore, necessarily having a power amp doesn't grant strong immunity to psychic defenses. There are things that only amp AP, but not stats, and so forth. As of now, you're dealing purely with speculation, and made a fallacious claim where you state something is true, but don't provide the evidence to support it, aka Burden of Proof Fallacy.

Xavier has over powered or chased Selene off twice just with his presence. Rachel Summers has chased her off and defeated her as a much weaker teen telepath. Freaking Doop has contended with her.

Selene was matching an empowered Rachel with the Phionex, has mindwiped Emma, and straight-up mind-controlled/affected Rachel numerous times. The Xavier instance would require more research, but if it's quite outdated, it's neutralized by Selene's recent feat. For the second part, Rachel chasing her off as a weaker telepath doesn't speak much if she didn't use telepathy. We're talking about mental prowess. Pyro made a pretty thorough RT on her, and coincidentally, it seems like they share the same take that I do.

But not doing something is not proof of the inability to do something. Something which is spelled out in kaiju issue via Storm and Magneto.

Not that this statement is wrong, but in the aforementioned case, that is what is stated and shown.

@bigbaby: 1- Your making very odd assumptions and planting them as fact. It's never stated that she made the deal just in order to create the Kaiju. In fact the reason she made it was specifically that Jean

The amp is unspecified.

We can't assume it's limits OR it's maximums beyond what was shown. But in general we don't count instances where people have vague amps.

Selene has telepathy, she can fight Exodus.....but all evidence says she would lose.

2- Selene wasn't matching Phoenix Rachel at any point, everything she did was overpowered and she was helpless by the end of it.

Rachel's first issue in the 616 is about Selene facing her. She's starved and weakened and Psibolts her away during her first ambush and into a wall during her second. The next time they encounter eachother Selene tells Rachel that she's not going to challenge her telepathically because of how powerful she is. Proven when Rachel breaks both herself and Magma free of her mind control even after being drained by Selene. During the 00's when she tries to control Rachel again she gets overpowered and Rachel takes her out and frees her mindslave in the same move. The ONLY time Selene has controlled Rachel was when reality was rewritten by Kulan Gath and Rachel didn't remember who she was.

Xavier saves Rachel during her first encounter with Selene and interrupts the second fight. There's nothing outdated because these are 2 of Selene's best feats.

Mindwiping Emma is a dubious retcon, because Selene isn't supposed to be a member of the Hellfire Club at the time the issue took place, but even if we took it as fact it's an outlier based on all other telepathic showings.

I respect Pyro, I work and collaborate with him on these RT's and other projects. Suffice to say that doesn't make him correct in all his interpretations.

3- It's never stated on panel. You assume it, because they didn't do it.

@koays:

1- Your making very odd assumptions and planting them as fact. It's never stated that she made the deal just in order to create the Kaiju. In fact the reason she made it was specifically that Jean

First, you didn't complete your sentence(I don't know what you're trying to say). Second, to deflect assumptions on me while you're maintaining the notion that Selene's mental fortitude was amped at a time that explicitly was not confirmed is just making the hole bigger for yourself. Now that is indeed what we call irony.

The amp is unspecified.

The amp is specficed. She made a deal to summon enough mystical energy for a Kaju. The narration authenticates this because there's no broach of drawing mystical energy to fortify her mind. It states, 'Selene animated the external gate into a monstrosity. A lot of mystic punch for a girl in a corset', with no elaboration of another 'intended' purpose that you suggest.

There's no different angle, no clever solution, no tricky trick disguised under the meaning of that scan. It's head-on telling readers what Selene used the amp for, and unlike your belief, I've done my part in substantiating it. You haven't.

2- Selene wasn't matching Phoenix Rachel at any point, everything she did was overpowered and she was helpless by the end of it.

She was actually matching it for a brief time. Yes, she was overpowered, but there's a firebird entity amping her to crazy proportions. Merely even stalling it is a good feat.

The next time they encounter eachother Selene tells Rachel that she's not going to challenge her telepathically because of how powerful she is.

This is really the crux of my argument, and what matters most here. Selene doesn't need to engage Exodus telepathically because her defenses are good enough to expel him from her mind while keeping him on the offense with her magic.

I respect Pyro, I work and collaborate with him on these RT's and other projects. Suffice to say that doesn't make him correct in all his interpretations.

Not saying that their word is law because that would be an appeal to authority fallacy, but I'm trying to get you to understand where my thought process is coming from.

3- It's never stated on panel. You assume it, because they didn't do it.

Wrong. It is. Right after the Five resurrect Selene Hope implies that they would have failed under normal circumstances, but luckily they exploited her confusion in the mere seconds it took Selene to register the incident.

Additionally, this follows in line where she can't be amped since Selene is not harnessing more mystical energy or invoking Mother Righteous. Hope made the claim under the impression that those defenses were natural to Selene. Off your logic, the statement still works for her, and I see no valid disproven scan debunking it.

@bigbaby: 1- I was commenting on your assumptions that Xavier and Emma couldn't stop Selene and that the amp was limited to summoning the kaiju. The end of that sentence was going to be "especially since she was going to join the Quiet Council in which case she had no need of the Kaiju." (idk where Jean came from in that).

It's not irony. I'm telling you we cannot make assumptions on what was and wasn't amped at the time because we don't know so we have to put the entire instance to the side. Period.

Everything else i'm saying is based on assuming your premise that they couldn't use telepathy on her. In which case we still can't use it because we don't know the limits or terms of the amp.

Selene is a telepath....either through magical or mutant means. If the amp was to her magic then it's possible her telepathy and therefore her defenses would be amped. If the amp was to her as a whole then we wouldn't count it because theres a chance it amped her telepathy. Which is why I am saying it cannot count.

Your taking statements, not by the narrator but by a character who doesn't know the nature or limits of the amp and stating that they are saying the amp did this ONE thing and ONE thing only...despite the fact that he says it before he even meets the only person who knows the limits of the amp.

Immortal X-Men is written from the first person perspective of each character. The number one rule of first person narration is that there is always a degree of 'unreliable narrator' present.

2- She was not matching Rachel at all. She threw stuff at Rachel and it was all incinerated. Then she tried to hold Rachel with the floor and that was incinerated. It's the equivalent of saying of saying Cyclops matched the Phoenix because he shot an optic blast that was ignored.

I don't disagree that there's merit to Selene having defenses that will slow Exodus down. I disagreed with the example you used to prove it. Do I think Exodus beats Selene? Yes. Do I think Selene can defend against Exodus in TP? For a short time. Do I think she can defend against his TP in an all out fight? No chance in hell. Not because of her defense level but because he's notoriously the best multitasker of any telepath/telekinetic and has proven it while battling everyone from Xavier to Magneto and performing high level feats with both powers at the same time.

I can respect where your coming from. In fact I'd go as far as to say that a authority fallacy is supported because I trust Pyro. I'm just telling you that while I trust @pyrofn to provide an argument or picture of the feat....Pyro's wrong in that instance and had I seen it I would've told them that it's an incorrect position.

3- Hope says Selene is a mean telepath.....that's it. I'm a firm believer that she can protect her mind for a short period....but if Exodus had wanted to get into her head the fight wouldn't take much.

Remember, my point has nothing to do with Selene being able to defend herself, but with the false assumption that she is able to stop Emma and Xavier if they attacked her mentally to make her stop.

Selene is a telepath, she just isn't going to last long against stronger telepaths if she tries to fight them off.

@koays:

I was commenting on your assumptions that Xavier and Emma couldn't stop Selene and that the amp was limited to summoning the kaiju. The end of that sentence was going to be "especially since she was going to join the Quiet Council in which case she had no need of the Kaiju." (idk where Jean came from in that).

I'm not saying their combined might wasn't enough, but each of them doing it individually wouldn't have been successful in subduing Selene. That matters here because Exodus is one person who won't have the courtesy nor provided aid to TP Selene. Along the run, readers are exposed to Xavier's helplessness while Selene walks away after summoning the Kaiju.

Furthermore, the argument is not necessarily baseless if a person who is famed for having a standalone ability(telepathy) cannot manage to stop an opponent from causing mass demolition to their home. All other evidence would point to Xavier persistently trying to stop her, but to no avail. It's either that or bad writing. Even a false dilemma fallacy isn't helping you walk out here free because those are the only immutable options.

It's not irony. I'm telling you we cannot make assumptions on what was and wasn't amped at the time because we don't know so we have to put the entire instance to the side. Period.

It is ironic because we're told what the amp did Koays, but you're assuming there was more involved than what was already explained.

Selene is a telepath....either through magical or mutant means. If the amp was to her magic then it's possible her telepathy and therefore her defenses would be amped. If the amp was to her as a whole then we wouldn't count it because theres a chance it amped her telepathy. Which is why I am saying it cannot count.

The amp was only sufficient to conjure a Kaiju. That is declared in stone. Mother Righteous made a deal. The deal was to expend enough power to conjure a Kaiju. Period. Show me any scan saying otherwise, and I will concede.

Your taking statements, not by the narrator but by a character who doesn't know the nature or limits of the amp and stating that they are saying the amp did this ONE thing and ONE thing only...despite the fact that he says it before he even meets the only person who knows the limits of the amp.

Hope is a copycat. She can mimic people's abilities to their fullest extent. Exodus has allowed Hope to copy his powers before. Therefore, Hope is a mutant that can be vouched for. In other cases, the argument might have worked, but we're talking about a person who has familiarity with Exodus, and his abilities.

2- She was not matching Rachel at all. She threw stuff at Rachel and it was all incinerated. Then she tried to hold Rachel with the floor and that was incinerated. It's the equivalent of saying of saying Cyclops matched the Phoenix because he shot an optic blast that was ignored.

That's pretty much stalling a phionex-empowered Racehl which is still impressive lol. We know that vessels for that entity are heavily amped. Her showing against an empowered Rahel is considerable nonetheless. Survival among the fittest is a thing btw.

I don't disagree that there's merit to Selene having defenses that will slow Exodus down.

Good because that's all Selene would need. A few seconds and she'll take out Exodus, fortify her defenses by harnessing more amps, etc.

I can respect where your coming from. In fact I'd go as far as to say that authority fallacy is supported because I trust Pyro. I'm just telling you that while I trust @pyrofn to provide an argument or picture of the feat....Pyro's wrong in that instance and had I seen it I would've told them that it's an incorrect position.

Just want to clarify that Pyro didn't say Xavier or Emma could not breach Selene's mind. They simply suggested the feat against Exodus. That said, I disagree respectfully.

3- Hope says Selene is a mean telepath.....that's it. I'm a firm believer that she can protect her mind for a short period....but if Exodus had wanted to get into her head the fight wouldn't take much.

Exodus didn't even bother taking out Selene telepathically but resorted to telekinetic attacks in Immortal X-men's most recent dispute with them. I think it seals the deal.

@bigbaby: 1- Your trying to say that because Xavier in that moment did not telepathically attack Selene, he could not.

The same Xavier who has done battle with 2 Dark Phoenix's, Galactus twice, and Ego the living planet....

The same Xavier who has already fought this person and sent her running away.

You have no evidence to provide except a lack of action.

The narrative it's self has Storm and Magneto only mildly concerned by the attack, with them even saying that they only got involved to show the people the Quiet Council taking action. Magneto himself was comfortable letting the War Captains take on the monster and Hope believes that either of them could solo it if they tried.

In the meeting it's self there is only mild concern despite increased stakes (their still arguing over whether they need a magical member) and Xavier's plan was to be diplomatic toward Selene in order to get her to stop it. Something which is very much in character for him.

But you believe that because he didn't attack her...he couldn't. There is no fight. There is no attempt. There is no indication that attacking her was even considered by anyone in anyway aside from Hope. Something which the council confronted her about doing immediately after.

Lack of action is not proof of inability.

2- Ok then....if we know how she was amped then how was it given to her? Was it an artifact? Was it a spell that makes kaiju? a ritual? Was it a book that she didn't know about? Did she borrow raw power? Was she even directly involved? What was the amp? Any answer you give to any of these questions is something you came up with that is not stated anywhere in the narrative.

There is no irony here. She was amped, we don't know by what. Just that whatever amped her gave her enough magic to turn the gateway into a monster.

We have no idea what else she could apply the amp towards or even if she could apply it to anything else.

Either way, it's not base Selene so we cannot apply anything she did with it.

3- I don't have to show a scan that says otherwise, because I'm saying we don't know.

You are the one telling me the terms of the deal and other information we are never given at any point.

All we know is that Selene was given magic above her usual ability and she accomplished a feat with it.

Mother Righteous doesn't tell us how. Selene doesn't tell us how. All we are given is people saying it wasn't her own power. Otherwise we don't have any other information to comment on it.

This is the only information we have on the subject and it tells us nothing that about her limits in either direction, and certainly nothing that you are claiming to know about it.

4- I have no idea how Hope and Exodus' power are a response to what I said.

5- Saying that throwing chairs at a Phoenix host forcefield and being laugh at is a good showing is.....a choice.

6- Wait wait wait.....now Selene is harnessing more amps to fight Exodus? Outside of drain how is she doing this? Worse then that, Selene's drain is usually pretty close range.....i'm lost here.

7- Exodus didn't attack her telepathically because his stated goal was to kill her.

Aside from that if attacked her telepathically she would fight back....she would lose....but it doesn't take away her ability to fight back.....by comparison she had no defense for what he actually did.

Still Exodus.

Selene's telepathy doesn't compare and her other powers aren't enough.

@koays:

Your trying to say that because Xavier in that moment did not telepathically attack Selene, he could not.

The premise of your argument is founded on an illogical conclusion, and a semblance of argument that deflects accountability off of Xavier to put stake in Selene's feat. Simply glean your stance(it's very foolish), Xavier witnessed Selene's assault, did nothing to stop it, and acted like an idiot. Whereas my sentiment is backed by the same storyline that references Selene to have a strong aptitude for mental defenses and calls her a beefy telepath. There's not much to comprehend here other than the radical levels of denial clashing with proof clear as day.

To put it in perspective:

• Selene attacked Karoka in front of Xavier
• Xavier saw Selene, watched her walk OUT, and did nothing.

The definition of powerless denotes: 'without ability, influence, or power', translating to Xavier's every case.

The same Xavier who has done battle with 2 Dark Phoenix's, Galactus twice, and Ego the living planet....

These feats were WAY back in time with different writers and perspectives, but you don't need to scale to a high-tier telepath to block them from your mind. It's common knowledge. Keep up. Just look at Storm redirecting a probe at amped-Charles or depowered Strange stomping Nightmare in his own realm lol. Furthermore, this isn't just passive and regular defenses, she has magic. There's no reason to assume that Xavier is going to breach her mind with telepathy in the same vain he did with others. Especially with the horrible track record telepathy presents when encountering magic.

2- Ok then....if we know how she was amped then how was it given to her? Was it an artifact? Was it a spell that makes kaiju? a ritual? Was it a book that she didn't know about? Did she borrow raw power? Was she even directly involved? What was the amp? Any answer you give to any of these questions is something you came up with that is not stated anywhere in the narrative.

In the context provided she was 'jacked with mystical juice' to summon the Kaiju. The meaning behind those 'words' is more mystical energy; a frequent method many spell-casters and sorccers use. She borrowed a limited amount of raw power temporarily (notice I saw limited, just enough to conjure the Kaiju). That's how I interpreted it.

Either way, it's not base Selene so we cannot apply anything she did with it.

You have not provided any proof that the amp extended over the sole purpose of summoning a Kaiju when that is specified directly.

You have not proven that her augmentation equates to better mental defenses i.e) "There are things that only amp AP, but not stats, and so forth'

You are ignoring a statement by Hope that asserts Selene having strong defenses. Intaking your logic, Hope does not know Selene is making deals with Mother Righteous. Therefore, Hope made the claim under the impression that those defenses were natural to Selene. The statement still works for her, and I see no valid disproven scan debunking it.

3- I don't have to show a scan that says otherwise, because I'm saying we don't know.

Thank you for the concession. I brought in a scan where the amp is only cited to summon a Kaiju. I have done my part. You have not. There is no 'We', there is just 'You'.

4- I have no idea how Hope and Exodus' power are a response to what I said.

Hope is the one that narrated Selene to have strong defenses against Exodus himself. You questioned the credibility of the narration because characters cannot distinguish the upper limits or abilities of other opponents. This is wrong for the following reason: Hope has familiarity with the abilities and powers of Exodus. She has copied it. Arguing 'unreliable narrator' presents conjecture solely for that reason lol.

6- Wait wait wait.....now Selene is harnessing more amps to fight Exodus? Outside of drain how is she doing this? Worse then that, Selene's drain is usually pretty close range.....i'm lost here.

Drain is obviously one of them, but we're assuming she can shield her mind in mid-combat scenarios with effective spells. Remember those were the same 'spells' referenced in Immortal X-men. Mages can also typically harness more energy from different sources in a prolonged fight- I don't see why that would be an exception for Selene. It's also why I have a problem with the Mother Righteous stuff.

7- Exodus didn't attack her telepathically because his stated goal was to kill her.

His goal was to kill her but that goal could have been met with less resistance if he had telepathically dropped her, and then ended her life. He didn't because he couldn't. This is supplemented by Hopes's previous statement. I don't see why he would take the harder route over the easier one lol.

lol

@bigbaby 1- You are basing your entire argument on inaction. Did not does not mean could not. Read your definition of powerless and show me where the evidence of it is provided. If you want to be exact Xavier took action against Selene in trying to reason with her.

Please remember this argument for future debates, because I don't believe you actually hold the belief that a character not using their powers means they are powerless to stop someone.

He didn't attack her but tried to negotiate...that makes him foolish not powerless. Nothing about their encounter tells you anything about their powers in comparison to eachother.

Your saying these 2 scenes mean Xavier was powerless against Selene. They provide nothing that remotely compares their power levels and you are making an assumption based on what YOU would do, not what Xavier would do. The Krakoan Era is filled with instances of Xavier talking about not abusing telepathic power....attacking Selene would be out of character for him. What YOU would do or what YOU find to be a good decision is irrelevant.

I'm saying that even ignoring your misinterpretation, these scenes tell you all you need to know about Selene against other telepaths. And even a little about Xavier and not attacking immediately.

I think your a little out of your depth if your gonna try to talk to me about what telepaths can and can't do....in fact that entire argument of not needing to be as strong as the other telepath to block or defend from them is one that I originated on this site.

More then that, your not telling me anything I don't know regarding her defense being possibly magic or telepathy.....because I literally said it as a major factor toward another point in this conversation:

Selene is a telepath....either through magical or mutant means. If the amp was to her magic then it's possible her telepathy and therefore her defenses would be amped. If the amp was to her as a whole then we wouldn't count it because theres a chance it amped her telepathy. Which is why I am saying it cannot count.

This is comment 29....oddly enough you quoted it already but apparently didn't read it.

Additionally your entire argument regarding telepathy's track record with magic is misguided....

Emma Frost telepathy blocked the mind erasing effects of Scarlet Witch reversing House of M.

Psylocke breaks through the mind of Jinn.

Gallery

Emma Frost matches her telepathy against Selene when both are trying to control the same person

Emma Frost breaks through the inversion spell from Axis to reverse Havok's inverted personalities

Emma reverses and explains how telepathy interacts with magic

Xavier blocks and reflect the magic of Puppet Master

Karma controls Amora the Enchantress

Cable breaks through D'sparye's illusion

Karma breaks Loki's spell on Magik

Jean breaks through W.A.N.D.'s magical blocks on Wong

Xavier slaps around Nightmare in his realm

Xavier, Jean, Emma and Rachel fry Nightmare.

Moondragon beats Dr. Strange

Emma destroys Magik's astral form

Breaks into Maddie's magic illusion's to free Scott

And I have another dozen or so instances against everyone from Belasco to D'spayre to Wanda and Strange....it seems more like a bias

2- Where are you getting this idea that she borrowed a limited amount of energy from? When does she say that? When does anyone say that?

Your telling me how much of an amp she got....how do you know this?

You don't know. I don't know. You can't say it was only a limited amp. Your making an assumption based on nothing. You don't even know how Mother Righteous powers work but your putting a limit on an off panel amp she gave.

Where are you getting any of what you are saying from??? This is the only scenes that mention the amp and they say none of what your saying.

Your entire position is invalidated based on lack of information, which is what i've been telling you from the start. We don't know, so we can't make judgements.

You can't make up limits for powers you know nothing about.

I don't need to prove it amps anything else, I need to prove we don't have enough information to make a judgement. Which I have, because nothing you've said is based on information provided, just assumptions you've pulled out of thin air.

You yourself said she might have magical defense, a point which I've already agreed to....a potential amp means an increase to that.

*****************

Again you are pulling things out of thin air. Nothing Hope said means her defenses are strong enough to stop someone in combat for an extended amount of time. Only that she is capable of fighting back. She has anti-feats that support that while she can take a hit she's not competing with High Tier telepaths if they want to attack her.

3- You have brought no scans that says that. I have shown you the only scans where the amp is mentioned, they don't say anything except that she had an amp. Anything else you made up in your head and are expecting me or anyone else to believe your interpretation.

4- I questioned the reliability of the narration in regards to the amp.

What I said about Hope and Exodus was:

Hope says Selene is a mean telepath.....that's it. I'm a firm believer that she can protect her mind for a short period....but if Exodus had wanted to get into her head the fight wouldn't take much.

Which is what i've been saying from the beginning. Selene has no chance of defending for any extended amount of time against a telepath as powerful as Exodus and there is no evidence that supports that she can.

5- Selene's known self amps are via lifeforce drain, killing other Externals and prep based spells/rituals. Of the things she can use in this fight only life force drain is available to her, of which she has almost exclusively used via physical touch. The fact that Exodus can teleport and uses it in combat alone makes that an unlikely outcome.

That his destructive power and shields are at such high levels makes it worse for Selene who's defense is usually via environment manipulation and dodging attacks through the shadows.

6- Your trying to tell me, he should've used telepathy.... when he did this with his stronger powerset.

Your talking nonsense in this regard.

lol

This was 50/50 originally for me, but I've been convinced Selene wins.

Any scans?

Scans of what? Me being convinced? 💀💀

Really no scans in this thread proving her winning

Why did he gag mother selene like that...

She was talking shit. And so she Fucked around and Found out. LOL

People actually like Selene ?

Yes! I actually like her more than Exodus, but I'm reasonable enough to know she can't beat him :)

Does Selene ever win something bte

@yuuki157: Selene is a beast....she's just clearly outmatched by telepaths and people with shields....and Exodus has both.

Oh, you’re back? I didn’t realize you came back. Welcome back.

Also, we both know Selene would go through immense pain to see a man break down.

(Not saying she wins. Just being silly)

Yes, quite a bit.

Saying she wins is a different issue entirely, but as far as Selene herself, she is quite entertaining and I frankly wished she was on the Council much earlier.