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#1 Posted by Just_J79 (103 posts) - - Show Bio

This is current Vampire-Corvinus Selene (Awakening) vs the Original Hybrid Klaus. Win by KO, death (or at least temporary death or close to it).

Both are in character, no outside assistance, standard gear/dress they are known to have.

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#2 Posted by Delta16807 (482 posts) - - Show Bio

Overview

Complete mismatch. Even Blood Wars Selene with speed blitzing is probably not as fast as Klaus who speed blitzes all the time since his very first showing. Speed blitzing people who are already fast in speed, etc - to do so to others who ghost entire teams. Klaus ends Selene's life in under a minute, if not less. Or he decides he likes her and compels her if possible, or tortures her for amusement, it wouldn't be the first time :)

Opponent Scaling comparison

He can compel other vampires; but I will just accept the fact that perhaps he can't compel Selene to do his bidding anyway. Klaus killed vampires casually (and put his fear in them before he even touched them, like Katherine on the run for centuries) - who have been known to be strong enough to take out entire towns. That is the calibur I see selene. Now fast enough to ghost and destroy a town with ease, but perhaps before she got her recent upgrade would have had a hard time with (as seen in Awakening). So if the pattern continues; Klaus should smack this.

The physical edge.

But the most important part? Klaus is immortal. Huge physical advantage Selene could not overcome at all, with any of her weapons or strength we have seen. Not like Selene that is highly durable. I mean, Klaus could have his head removed, and get staked in the heart. And keep ticking. He has laughed off explosions, knife wounds, and gunshots. He has taken punches from other originals like Elijah, that have been strong enough to have enough impact decapitate lesser foes. Also, Klaus is a hybrid, and would kill Selene from a single bite in all probability. It should work on any non-immortal being. He can turn into a werewolf form in part for even more power; but he never prefers to, and will often only turn full vampire, and bloodlusted (which he does often).

There is nothing Selene can even do to harm him. He is the giant werewolf from Awakening ending, x10000. He could get that grenade in him, and explode it with the silver in it (silver, sunlight, etc - not a weakness to him), and it would hurt. Perhaps even temporarily cripple him. But within a few minutes he should be back, and now very angry. He is vindictive. Where he can kill Selene easy enough.

Experience edge

They are both about the same age; but the experience edge I still give Klaus, by a solid margin. While she has been fighting a war with the same species, lycans (still a tough opponent) - Klaus has been fighting constantly too. Building his own little kingdoms with the power of his own self (not usually any backup other than his family - and often they opposed his efforts), and doing likewise. For centuries and centuries. And actually fleeing from Michael - someone who would make Victor terrified; so he was learning to survive and build his power network on the run, in stealth - for far longer than any of the experience Selene had. Plus he has had WAY more experience fighting people of higher power levels.

Also, can someone just clarify something for me about forum rules?

I didn't see any rules for bumping old threads here: http://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/site-rules-and-faqs-669033/ , even though I found other people not liking other ones that have already been answered. But since this one hasn't been, I think this should be ok?

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#3 Edited by deactivated-5a89ca5697052 (8063 posts) - - Show Bio

Selene snaps his neck and rips his head off.

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#4 Edited by Delta16807 (482 posts) - - Show Bio

@ithemanwithoutfeari:

Even if she somehow managed to, it would do nothing. She could decapitate him and blow him up to kingdom come. But he is like the wolverine in the nigh invulnerability department. He would heal quick enough, and he is faster, stronger, better, than she is even with her latest speed boost. This is like captain America before his serum in the movie, vs the Hulk. There is no chance in hell that Selene wins here. This is spite. He is magically enchanted to be practically unkillable. Unlike a virus that just made Selene really durable, fast, and bloodlusted. Magic trumps science here; in major, major ways.

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#5 Posted by deactivated-5a89ca5697052 (8063 posts) - - Show Bio

@delta16807: Nah I disagree.

Selene has similar speed now and seems way more skilled in combat overall.

I am also pretty sure that he doesnt heal from decapitation. He is not healing a new head when his real head lies 5 meters next to him.

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#6 Edited by Delta16807 (482 posts) - - Show Bio

He is magically enhanced not to be able to be killed, except by a white oak stake (and those don't exist anymore), which the last tree burned like 1000 years ago. He magically cannot die. He heals, and if he was decapitated, he would grow a new body. That is how the lore has it works. So that is what would happen. Unless Selene has a powerful witch on the scale of Dahlia or greater (haha), she has no chance here to kill him.

Also, I really think you are underselling Klauses sociopathic brilliance, and his incredible experience as well. I believe he is even better trained and experienced than even Selene. +better speed feats, +real immortality, +mind control compulsion abilities, +hybrid bite that kills any vampires in TO universe.

He is the dracula, the myth, the legend that had for centuries kept vampires globally afraid to death of him, in his universe. And while you might consider Selene well on her way (and perhaps is) the chosen one of her race here, the magical OP vampires of the VD universe are just better than the vampires, even the average vs average here, than the Underworld universe. Curbstomp win here for Klaus.

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#7 Edited by el-kun (238 posts) - - Show Bio

@delta pls stop been a fanboy of the originals , selene will stop Klaus in less than two seconds , she outclass him in every department ,u saw her fight with Marius on the ice ,her durability is beyond all d originals put together ,and Dont give DAT bullshit about nothing kill him except a white oak , Elijah nearly ripped his heart out and and stefan has done something close to DAT , when he held Klaus heart to dessicate him

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#8 Edited by el-kun (238 posts) - - Show Bio

Klaus has zero physical feat ,the truth is the vd vampires are only know for there speed , Klaus was hurt by a single bullet , the lycans in underworld will Finnish all the vampires in the vampire diaries world

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#9 Posted by RBT (26638 posts) - - Show Bio

I have only seen first 2 Underworld movies and Klaus should take her based on what little I remember of her.

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#10 Edited by thelocust619 (7851 posts) - - Show Bio

From what I saw of the Originals, Selene should curb and at least pull off an incap.

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#11 Edited by RBT (26638 posts) - - Show Bio

From what I saw of the Originals, Selene should curb and at least pull off an incap.

What are Selene's best feats?

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#12 Posted by kgb725 (18095 posts) - - Show Bio
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#13 Edited by thelocust619 (7851 posts) - - Show Bio

@rbt: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RWj1z545wMI

^feat compilation. It's mostly just her standing n endlessly shooting bullet sponges til about 2:20, then they start spending a little of their budget lol

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#15 Posted by RBT (26638 posts) - - Show Bio

@rbt: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RWj1z545wMI

^feat compilation. It's mostly just her standing n endlessly shooting bullet sponges til about 2:20, then they start spending a little of their budget lol

Okay, so I watched the whole video(after 2:20) and Selene has an edge in skill and agility. Klaus is still faster, stronger, durable and by looks of it, has a better healing. Selene's best speed feat is at 8:16, something that Klaus has more or less replicated. However, instead of stabbing them, he broke neck of four guys in an instant. Her best strength feat is probably flipping the truck. Tyler, a weaker hybrid than Klaus, was able to stop a speeding SUV dead on by colliding into it. There are other feats that put Klaus decisively over Selene in most departments. I can post them if you want.

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#16 Posted by Observer_Guy (157 posts) - - Show Bio

Selene.

Klaus has like one super high end feat against a bunch random vampires who apparently could die from punches to the face and broken necks, and stupidly brought Klaus into a corridor where the number of them able to fight him at once is greatly reduced.

However he jobs pretty hard against the known characters in his other fights. Even Tyler Lockwood in his human form was giving Klaus a fight on his own show.

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#17 Posted by RBT (26638 posts) - - Show Bio

Selene.

Klaus has like one super high end feat against a bunch random vampires who apparently could die from punches to the face and broken necks, and stupidly brought Klaus into a corridor where the number of them able to fight him at once is greatly reduced.

However he jobs pretty hard against the known characters in his other fights. Even Tyler Lockwood in his human form was giving Klaus a fight on his own show.

Klaus would have massacred almost a hundred vampire had Marcel not interrupted. He also tore through his own hybrid army. And he only ever looses to witches when they get the drop on him.

Human Tyler Lockwood? He hasn't been human since Season 2 of TVD. I am pretty sure the Tyler Klaus fought was hybrid and it was clear that Klaus was toying with him.

As for Klaus jobbing, I can post multiple instances of him beating Elijah. A guy whose feats outclasses Selene's.

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#18 Posted by thelocust619 (7851 posts) - - Show Bio

@rbt: No need, I didn't make it to the end of the Originals but I believe u lol that is mildly above her own stats, but not above her paygrade: it is worth note that Selene generally fights enemies several times stronger/faster than she is and has been for centuries, while from what I saw Klaus usually seems to be the toughest guy in the room.

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#19 Edited by Delta16807 (482 posts) - - Show Bio

@kgb725 said:

@delta16807: You're going full Fanboy

Even if I was, it doesn't change the fact that Klaus really, really dominates this one sided fight. But you are right:

I am a full on fanboy to both of them though, and the Originals is a passion show of mine, my favorite show since Person of Interest ended; even though I love The Flash, and all these other good shows. However, I have also loved Underworld, and have defended it from the storm of attacks it has received on forums like IMDb, from the misfits who seem to criticize the movies for being 'stupid'. Well, before it closed down the forums this last month anyway.

I have watched them both, in their entire runs several times over, so calling me a fanboy is accurate; and this case - I consider myself uniquely qualified to judge between the two here. Heck, googling something about Klaus in one of my favorite bits about him led me to this fight strangely enough, even though I would have never have put these two against each other. Because I knew it would have been a curbstomp.

Which is why I made my account to begin with. THIS FIGHT BROUGHT ME TO COMICVINE, this is my first post here.

And seeing what made Klaus, the fact he is immortal, has speed feats as equal to the greatest ones of Selene, in her last movie too... Has more experience vs quality opponents, battled magic - and is magic vampire vs science vampire (underworld called it a 'virus', where as in the case of TVD, it is caused by spreading the curse, as to do with the related nature of the original witch's spell). Magic > Science usually.

Since Selene can't put Klaus down, she literally cannot. He is magically spelled to be immortal, and the only weapon that can kill him is the white oak stake, which no longer exists. It would take a super-original, which Selene is not to even come close (and that would require a very powerful witch anyway to do such a spell to make someone that). and Klaus can easily put her down, speed, strength, anti-vampire bite, etc, etc... This is a curbstomp for Klaus. Among two of my favorite character ever. So this is not me not liking Selene and just loving on Klaus. I just see that there is no way in hell Klaus can lose this fight, and I can't think of a way Selene can save herself either, and would die very quickly...

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#20 Edited by Delta16807 (482 posts) - - Show Bio

@thelocust619 said:

@rbt: No need, I didn't make it to the end of the Originals but I believe u lol that is mildly above her own stats, but not above her paygrade: it is worth note that Selene generally fights enemies several times stronger/faster than she is and has been for centuries, while from what I saw Klaus usually seems to be the toughest guy in the room.

So did Klaus, but way more so. Selene was under the protection of the most powerful, fastest - for centuries under Victor.

For more than a thousand years Klaus was on the run from his own father, Mikael ("The vampire who hunts other vampires", who only ever drank the blood of other vampires, and deemed everyone else kind of pathetic - but also hated on vampires especially, with his own history with creation of them), who was faster, stronger than he was. He fought him on lots of occasions. He learned how to be ruthless, tactical, brutal in those periods. And he didn't even start off that bad, being very solid sword-fighter before hand, being trained under Mikael - a famed warlord of his era.

Plus when the show timeline hits, he has faced a number of enemies well faster, well stronger than he was - and even used his mind and strategies (in ways Selene has yet to prove much on that arena) - to win.

So even in the category you brought up, a much, much stronger case can be made for Klaus with.

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#21 Edited by Delta16807 (482 posts) - - Show Bio

@el-kun said:

Klaus has zero physical feat ,the truth is the vd vampires are only know for there speed , Klaus was hurt by a single bullet , the lycans in underworld will Finnish all the vampires in the vampire diaries world

Um... Gonna have to source me on that. Unless you mean the other original who actually was hurt by a white oak stake bullet (not Klaus)... But didn't die. Of a weapon most bullets simply are not.

People have fired bullets at Klaus. And they have done exactly nothing. They didn't even slow him down, or phase him. Unlike Selene in many instances. So if Selene thinks just shooting him would do anything, Klaus would just sit there smiling (with a 'really?' look on his face), and just mock her, standing still and doing nothing. Because he would be able to.

Also, he has plenty of feats. Taking on very strong, super vampires, super witches, small army worth of vampires a few times, and just pawning elite, ancient vampires who are by dozens (the Strix), pawning his own hybrid army... Compelling other vampires who pretty much have taken over entire towns before.

Yes... He has LOTS of feats. Feats way out of the league of Selene.

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#22 Posted by ParagonNate (4601 posts) - - Show Bio

@rbt said:
@thelocust619 said:

@rbt: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RWj1z545wMI

^feat compilation. It's mostly just her standing n endlessly shooting bullet sponges til about 2:20, then they start spending a little of their budget lol

Okay, so I watched the whole video(after 2:20) and Selene has an edge in skill and agility. Klaus is still faster, stronger, durable and by looks of it, has a better healing. Selene's best speed feat is at 8:16, something that Klaus has more or less replicated. However, instead of stabbing them, he broke neck of four guys in an instant. Her best strength feat is probably flipping the truck. Tyler, a weaker hybrid than Klaus, was able to stop a speeding SUV dead on by colliding into it. There are other feats that put Klaus decisively over Selene in most departments. I can post them if you want.

The guards she blitzed were werewolves in human form, who are roughly on par with normal vampires. Just throwing that out there. Also I'd say her best strength feat is matching Viktor in a tug of war over the shotgun at 4:20, he pulled a helicopter out of the air yet he couldn't pull the shotgun out of her hands even when exerting effort.

She does get a solid bump in speed in the new movie, moving so quickly that she's almost impossible to see, blitzing even more lycans, and at least once seeming to disappear into thin air even though her enemy had his hand on her shoulder before she moved.

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#23 Edited by thelocust619 (7851 posts) - - Show Bio

@delta16807: That's not a better case though...you're talking periodic bouts with a stronger opponent (father), n that's cool, but Selene's actual job for centuries was to fight opponents that could one shot her...with periodic bouts of fighting opponents that fodderize those, and again others beyond that...all in all making her seem very, very small in comparison to her general opposition. That was the catagory I brought up...I'm not saying Klaus has no experience at all, I'm saying there is no possible way spotted battles with his dad is better experience fighting stronger opponents than being an active warrior that spent centuries committing genocide against exactly that: stronger opponents than she is.

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#24 Edited by Delta16807 (482 posts) - - Show Bio

@paragonnate said:
@rbt said:
@thelocust619 said:

@rbt: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RWj1z545wMI

^feat compilation. It's mostly just her standing n endlessly shooting bullet sponges til about 2:20, then they start spending a little of their budget lol

Okay, so I watched the whole video(after 2:20) and Selene has an edge in skill and agility. Klaus is still faster, stronger, durable and by looks of it, has a better healing. Selene's best speed feat is at 8:16, something that Klaus has more or less replicated. However, instead of stabbing them, he broke neck of four guys in an instant. Her best strength feat is probably flipping the truck. Tyler, a weaker hybrid than Klaus, was able to stop a speeding SUV dead on by colliding into it. There are other feats that put Klaus decisively over Selene in most departments. I can post them if you want.

The guards she blitzed were werewolves in human form, who are roughly on par with normal vampires. Just throwing that out there. Also I'd say her best strength feat is matching Viktor in a tug of war over the shotgun at 4:20, he pulled a helicopter out of the air yet he couldn't pull the shotgun out of her hands even when exerting effort.

She does get a solid bump in speed in the new movie, moving so quickly that she's almost impossible to see, blitzing even more lycans, and at least once seeming to disappear into thin air even though her enemy had his hand on her shoulder before she moved.

Selene being a blur, speedblitzing vampires? That is cake. Damon was blitzing humans being invisible to them in a blur sort of way in the first season of TVD. And originals are way faster.

This is an original vampire running across an entire town of miles in a few seconds (can you track that with your eye?)

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Klaus is even faster than him. In fact, Elijah and Klaus are indisputably the two strongest originals, and Klaus > Elijah. They both are faster than what you saw here.

Elijah has on several occasion blitzed a room of vampires > 300 years old. Now you tell me if Selene's speed computes.

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#25 Edited by thelocust619 (7851 posts) - - Show Bio

@delta16807: Wow, 300 years old!? That's pretty fast! :p

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#26 Edited by Delta16807 (482 posts) - - Show Bio

> = AT LEAST. Not ALL.

Just to prove a point - Elijah has blitzed STRIX vampires before. Being that much faster than them. You know, very ancient vampires?

Also - even a 100 year old vampire in TVD >>> average 100 y/o vampire in Underworld. Given how their showings and feats are (don't believe me, compare Stefan and Damon from TVD to them).

And I love how no one has even addressed the elephant in the room - that Klaus is a vampire that cannot be killed, a true immortal - vs a vampire who is not a true immortal, just highly durable (not made immortal by magic).

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#27 Posted by Delta16807 (482 posts) - - Show Bio

@delta16807: That's not a better case though...you're talking periodic bouts with a stronger opponent (father), n that's cool, but Selene's actual job for centuries was to fight opponents that could one shot her...with periodic bouts of fighting opponents that fodderize those, and again others beyond that...all in all making her seem very, very small in comparison to her general opposition. That was the catagory I brought up...I'm not saying Klaus has no experience at all, I'm saying there is no possible way spotted battles with his dad is better experience fighting stronger opponents than being an active warrior that spent centuries committing genocide against exactly that: stronger opponents than she is.

You make it sound like she was going against it every day herself, by herself. She was often not - she was part of a group. A warrior, then a death dealer. The strongest lycan, the only one on par with Viktor was really before her time here.

Also - you are mistaking how much better Elijah, Rebekah, Kol, etc conflicts were for practice than anything Selene can even add to her repertoire here. She was never regularly in conflict with people of Viktors caliber, which is what was going on here.

However, Mikael was just the one several times more than him. But before he became a hybrid (the last 10 years) - he was actually just a normal original like Elijah; and it was always (and in many ways still is) a hell of a fight between the two legends.

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#28 Edited by Delta16807 (482 posts) - - Show Bio
@paragonnate said:
@rbt said:
@thelocust619 said:

@rbt: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RWj1z545wMI

^feat compilation. It's mostly just her standing n endlessly shooting bullet sponges til about 2:20, then they start spending a little of their budget lol

Okay, so I watched the whole video(after 2:20) and Selene has an edge in skill and agility. Klaus is still faster, stronger, durable and by looks of it, has a better healing. Selene's best speed feat is at 8:16, something that Klaus has more or less replicated. However, instead of stabbing them, he broke neck of four guys in an instant. Her best strength feat is probably flipping the truck. Tyler, a weaker hybrid than Klaus, was able to stop a speeding SUV dead on by colliding into it. There are other feats that put Klaus decisively over Selene in most departments. I can post them if you want.

The guards she blitzed were werewolves in human form, who are roughly on par with normal vampires. Just throwing that out there. Also I'd say her best strength feat is matching Viktor in a tug of war over the shotgun at 4:20, he pulled a helicopter out of the air yet he couldn't pull the shotgun out of her hands even when exerting effort.

She does get a solid bump in speed in the new movie, moving so quickly that she's almost impossible to see, blitzing even more lycans, and at least once seeming to disappear into thin air even though her enemy had his hand on her shoulder before she moved.

Almost missed your comment.

Her best strength feat was vs Marcus in my opinion, a greater vampire than Viktor. And in outright pulling strength, you might be right for lack of feats (TO don't even really ever need to do that sort of thing). But in my opinion, we should compare striking power, which has quite a few interesting displays:

In one badass scene, Elijah does this with some simple coins (force of impact = mass+acceleration):

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And here again, for not the first time - he is casually decapitating people with nothing but the force of his unarmed hits (keep in mind, these are the strix this time):

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I have never seen the hits from Selene doing these kinds of things.

Also, just to really drive the fact home of the huge disadvantage of how immortal the Original Klaus really is, here is a video of Damon trying to burn him... Didn't work (and Damon was lucky he was temporarily put to sleep by a mystical dagger that there is no way Selene has - which wouldn't even kill him anyway).

This would kill Selene, burning her to death at the stake, but not Klaus... He can be burned, stabbed, decapitated, etc, and nothing. Look at the flamethrower:

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#29 Edited by thelocust619 (7851 posts) - - Show Bio

@delta16807: When it is literally your job to do something (in this case, kill things comparatively stronger than she is) you will have more experience doing that thing than someone who does not do it for a living. Klause is factually stronger than most of the people he fights, Selene is not. This isn't rocket science lol I dont even know why you're so gung ho on contesting it...its not even a huge point, it was an fyi lol

Idc what those guys do for practice. You approached me about one topic, not who is better overall.

Noone in Underworld is an Original, they are a completely unrelated universe and similar themes mean literally nothing in a battle. What matters are physical, visible, somewhat measurable feats. ...btw telling someone a vampire is 300yo tells us nothing about how fast that is, telling me "oh you shoulda seen this, it's way better" isn't helping anyone understand you.

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#30 Edited by Delta16807 (482 posts) - - Show Bio

@thelocust619:

Basic vampires roused an extermination party with GREAT success, to kill werewolves in much the same way as Selene in the TVD verse, circa 1500ad. On account, that werewolf bites do kill vampire with just one bite (not an original) - and they are stronger for the full moon than any non-original.

Her success was against brain dead strong lycans, often in wolf form.

Not applicable here. Klaus trained vs people just as strong as him, and on some occasions very much stronger and faster than him in a battle to merely survive as he was facing death... But more importantly, having training with people far faster, far stronger than anyone Selene ever came up against up until the last couple decades of her life... And I am actually unsure if she has at all (originals > rest, Viktor, etc).

He faced cunning smart opponents. Even Selene admitted in the last one, when trying to train a new generation of death dealers, that lycans are 'more dangerous outside of their wolf form' despite that being the form where they have the strength and speed advantage... So it isn't as impressive as you think.

Where Klaus here, with experience is far more impressive in the category than you are willing to admit.

I also showed a demonstration of speed (couple second town run) and striking power, and immortality above - via video. Not just vague '300 years old'.

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#31 Edited by thelocust619 (7851 posts) - - Show Bio

@delta16807: "So even in the category you brought up, a much, much stronger case can be made for Klaus with."

That's you. The "catagory I brought up" is just fighting opponents physically superior to them. ONLY that. I am NOT talking about overall experience, yet you seem to have this impression. Lose it.

The lycans were only one part of my case, them alone isn't worth mentioning but altogether with the events of the movies, yes, it counts as more opponents that are physically stronger than her that she fought.

Selene is generally weaker than her opposition, Klaus is generally stronger. Obviously Selene has more experience dealing with stronger opponents than she is, you keep denying it like it means Klaus instantly loses. Stop that. It doesnt. This is the only thing I cared to clarify with you, and I cannot possibly make this any more clear so I'm done lol

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#32 Posted by Delta16807 (482 posts) - - Show Bio

@thelocust619:

I am not talking about overall experience (still Klaus) either... I was talking about fighting opponents of that caliber, the kind that Selene was practicing against who were stronger than her. The fact that he was dusting them for the most part early is actually better for him - and he still had all kinds of experiences even when not the case.

@paragonnate:

Just ran across a case that shows Klaus bullet blitzing vampires in video here when looking at a couple other ones just to relive the scenes while on topic :)

Thought this one would compare to the speed of which Selene made everyone else look slow. (also, this has happened with Klaus/Originals quite often). He kind of just instantly shows up, snapping the neck to introduce himself to the vampire fight club partiers :)

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#33 Posted by Jack_Hart (797 posts) - - Show Bio

Does Selene have a defense against compulsion?

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#34 Edited by TheWhiteCrown (234 posts) - - Show Bio

Haven't read all of the replies so excuse me if I am restating someone else's comment. In terms of combat prowess, Selene's skills are absurd and defy logic. That being said, Klaus should be much faster and stronger than her. Moreover, TO's have a unique type of immortality (via magic) that doesn't allow them to be decapitated or die via explosions, gunfire, or drowning. Even attempting to rip out their hearts would be physically difficult (the magic ignores conventional strength or physics), but doing so would not kill them. Moreover, Conventional weaponry can only be used to temporarily injure or subdue them. Only white oak, extremely powerful magic (and the right circumstances), or a Beast (Enhanced Original with white oak infused werewolf venom) can kill them.

On TVD Rebekah saves Matt:

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Elijah Mikaelson, who is weaker and slower than his Hybrid half- brother, in TO s1:

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On TO s2, Elijah sets himself on fire to blow up a house naturally he survives it no problem:

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Klaus himself is way more entertaining XD:

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#35 Edited by Delta16807 (482 posts) - - Show Bio

@jack_hart:

I would think not. Logically, she isn't even a normal vampire like TVD, but it doesn't matter - cuz vampires compel humans and pretty much anything without magic and/or herbal resistance/already tp. But just for the sake of making it a little less lopsided, I am saying no, lets pretend he can't compel her.

@thewhitecrown

I totally agree; the physcials + intangibles really make this a curbstomp. But I am not entirely convinced Selene is even the better warrior. Though, she might have the better feats for it; but not so much on the lore and character backstory that would tell a different story + TOs simply not needing to demonstrate much.

And more importantly, anything that would do any real harm to Klaus is either not around anymore, or is just fantasy land to Selene.

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#36 Edited by TheWhiteCrown (234 posts) - - Show Bio

@delta16807: Oh I don't believe she is the better hand to hand fighter, I'm just talking about her style of fighting with guns. It is absurdly flashy and the bullets miss their mark a little too often.

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#37 Edited by Delta16807 (482 posts) - - Show Bio

@thewhitecrown:

Well, guns are absolutely pointless, and Klaus would let her empty several of her clips just to have a laugh :)

But yes, you might be right on that. But only because TVD vampires don't die very easily to firearms (but normals can die to wooden ones; but it can be a cumbersome thing). I think it is not so much that it makes Klaus necessarily less skilled at what he does; he just never had the need or benefit to even learning that. But in gun play, I do think Selene would definitely have the edge; for all the wonders it would do her. She is a flashy, godlike and awesome with a firearm. And hooot. Feel free to ignore that last part ;)

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#38 Posted by Observer_Guy (157 posts) - - Show Bio

@rbt said:
@observer_guy said:

Selene.

Klaus has like one super high end feat against a bunch random vampires who apparently could die from punches to the face and broken necks, and stupidly brought Klaus into a corridor where the number of them able to fight him at once is greatly reduced.

However he jobs pretty hard against the known characters in his other fights. Even Tyler Lockwood in his human form was giving Klaus a fight on his own show.

Klaus would have massacred almost a hundred vampire had Marcel not interrupted. He also tore through his own hybrid army. And he only ever looses to witches when they get the drop on him.

Human Tyler Lockwood? He hasn't been human since Season 2 of TVD. I am pretty sure the Tyler Klaus fought was hybrid and it was clear that Klaus was toying with him.

As for Klaus jobbing, I can post multiple instances of him beating Elijah. A guy whose feats outclasses Selene's.

I said human form Tyler since he's weaker in human form than his wolf form or whatever form Tyler takes now. This is the fight I mean https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VB9zR82PoE

As for Klaus toying with him. Tyler lands in two good stake shots and Klaus is always arrogant and full of himself, so it's debatable if Klaus wasn't just being Klaus there. All the Originals have jobbed to the Mystic Falls cast not named Bonnie at one point or another. Klaus was permanently put out of commission by Tyler, Damon and Stefan in season 3 which lead to his death before Julie Plec had to come up with another BS way to bring Klaus back alive again because she has a boner for Joseph Morgan. Elijah was defeated by Damon and Stefan in his very first fight against them. Elena and Jeremy killed Kol in their first fight again him just to name some examples.

Apparently the trick to beating an Original is to have some moderate skills and cunning, and Selene has way more of those than anyone in Vampire Diaries/Originals since fight skills in that show are mediocre and more about power and sneak attacking your opponent. Hell Klaus doesn't even use his speed for dodging. Just charge attacks or running away. while Selene on the other hand have used both her agility and speed for dodging opponents. I also remember Selene would often use other methods to kill enemies more powerful than her if conventional means aren't working. She killed Viktor simply by lopping his head in half (something the characters of the show never tried on a Original), she knocked Marcus into helicopters to chop him up into pieces (another thing characters in the show have never tried on Originals), and shoving grenades into giant super werewolf Quint (something the characters definitely never tried on a Original). Though at least Vampire Diaries/Originals are better in the fighting department than True Blood. That show it's all about age and vampire fights are basically two characters hugging it out until one of them manages to toss the other, all in fast forward.

As for the Elijah vs Klaus debate, Elijah has overall better feats than his brother. Klaus overall is more about boasting about being a hybrid original than actually demonstrating his power. In their fights, Elijah not Klaus, is the one who generally performs better. Klaus usually gets the upper hand in their encounters by bringing in something that gives him the edge like some special stake or biting his brother since vampires (even Originals) are poisoned against werewolf bites. Here's a fight compilation of their's. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fIUNcylYrrY

Fight 1 Elijah gets more hits in, Klaus bring in special dagger and threatens to use it in order to end the fight. Fight 2 Elijah overpowers Klaus and pins him against the wall even though Klaus clearly is trying to get away. Elijah lands in more hits until they eventually just calls it quits. Fight 3 it's Elijah this time who ends with quickly with a dagger. Fight 4 this is the only time I can think of where Klaus was clearly better than Elijah, but Elijah repeatedly makes a lot of comebacks in the fight. Last fight in the video things are back to normal where Elijah is landing in more hits on his brother than vice versa. Klaus even resorts to biting, though not sure why Elijah isn't being affect since I remember Elijah became horribly sick when Klaus did that to him in the first season.

Also there's something that always annoyed me about the Originals power levels and that's their suppose "invincibility". Their "invincibility" is basically summed up with:

"I can't be killed"

"Oh no, we can't set these guys on fire or kill them with a normal stake (though it does knock them out for hours), this must be true"

Okay lets see what the show has actually shown. Entire arrows and objects have gone completely through their chest, and their necks can be broken, so clearly their bones aren't indestructible. So what happens when someone chops off a limb or their head? Everyone on the show is too stupid to try it, so we don't know. While they won't catch on fire, we know they can be burn as evidence how they can be hurt by the sun and need sunlight rings too. So what happens when you throw an Original into an incinerator or kick them into a volcano or something along those lines? Everyone on the show is too stupid to try it, so we don't know. If they can be burned by the sun, what happens when you remove their rings and keep them out in the sunlight the entire time so they can't recover? Everyone on the show is too stupid to try it, so we don't know. What about the opposite? What happens when you try to freeze them in something very cold then shatter them? Everyone on the show is too stupid to try it, so we don't know. Stuff like Vervain still hurts them, so what happens when you radically poison them and keep it up? Everyone on the show is too stupid to try it, so we don't know. I remember Elijah was about to kill Klaus in the season 2 finale by ripping his heart out. Considering damage to the heart still works on a Original as repeatedly shown whenever they get stabbed in the heart whether it permanently kills them or not. What happens when a Original gets their heart ripped out? No one has ever gone full out doing this, so we don't know. Considering no one has even thought about chopping an Original's limb off, I'm going to guess no one has tried shoving an Original into a wood chipper or turbine engine or anything along those lines? That is correct. Do they have any rapid regeneration which is what makes them invincible? Not that I'm aware of. They never took anything beyond a few stab and bullet holes at a time. I'm really starting to see a pattern here.

The Originals "invincibility" is more reliant on other characters stupidity than actual feats and there's tons of feats suggesting various methods would work on them. It's like the writers of the shows constantly beat around the bush because they don't want to write themselves into a corner in case they need a weaker character from Vampire Diaries to beat them again.

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#39 Posted by King_Majestros (1929 posts) - - Show Bio

Selene tears Klaus apart.

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#40 Posted by ParagonNate (4601 posts) - - Show Bio

@delta16807: You seem to think that I'm saying Selene wins...I'm not, I'm just putting information out there. Also I was mistaken, it was Marcus she matched in strength in the video not Viktor. Which doesn't mean much seeing as Marcus>Viktor anyway.

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#41 Edited by Delta16807 (482 posts) - - Show Bio
@observer_guy said:

"I can't be killed"

"Oh no, we can't set these guys on fire or kill them with a normal stake (though it does knock them out for hours), this must be true"

Okay lets see what the show has actually shown. Entire arrows and objects have gone completely through their chest, and their necks can be broken, so clearly their bones aren't indestructible. So what happens when someone chops off a limb or their head? Everyone on the show is too stupid to try it, so we don't know. While they won't catch on fire, we know they can be burn as evidence how they can be hurt by the sun and need sunlight rings too. So what happens when you throw an Original into an incinerator or kick them into a volcano or something along those lines? Everyone on the show is too stupid to try it, so we don't know. If they can be burned by the sun, what happens when you remove their rings and keep them out in the sunlight the entire time so they can't recover? Everyone on the show is too stupid to try it, so we don't know. What about the opposite? What happens when you try to freeze them in something very cold then shatter them? Everyone on the show is too stupid to try it, so we don't know. Stuff like Vervain still hurts them, so what happens when you radically poison them and keep it up? Everyone on the show is too stupid to try it, so we don't know. I remember Elijah was about to kill Klaus in the season 2 finale by ripping his heart out. Considering damage to the heart still works on a Original as repeatedly shown whenever they get stabbed in the heart whether it permanently kills them or not. What happens when a Original gets their heart ripped out? No one has ever gone full out doing this, so we don't know. Considering no one has even thought about chopping an Original's limb off, I'm going to guess no one has tried shoving an Original into a wood chipper or turbine engine or anything along those lines? That is correct. Do they have any rapid regeneration which is what makes them invincible? Not that I'm aware of. They never took anything beyond a few stab and bullet holes at a time. I'm really starting to see a pattern here.

The Originals "invincibility" is more reliant on other characters stupidity than actual feats and there's tons of feats suggesting various methods would work on them. It's like the writers of the shows constantly beat around the bush because they don't want to write themselves into a corner in case they need a weaker character from Vampire Diaries to beat them again.

First, I to start off with the obvious problem. You are assuming simple phsyical assaults like chopping off the head will be a loophole to a curse of a very powerful witch that was made for the sole purpose of making her children invulnerable to their enemies... And immortal, where they cannot be killed except by the white oak stake loophole she herself set. How is sword+decapitation > magic? Don't think so, as it goes against what we know of the curse itself, and its nature.

As for the feats you mention, and the logic of it, in particular, we know of at least one person who has both the skill and the desire to try this with one of the Michaelson's -- their father Michael. He spent his entire life hunting them down, but more importantly, hunting down the white oak stake that would allow him to kill his children. He wants to get rid of all vampires, and killing one of the original line would wipe out huge chunks at a time. And he was an accomplished, and very skilled swordsman - and was stronger and faster than any one of them. We have seen him do it to others.

We know that, even though they will heal from serious injury, there are ways to temporarily subdue an original. Their cursed daggers, for example, will put them into a permanent state of suspended animation, and we've seen other magic items take them down as well. We have to assume, if all he had to do was subdue one and then decapitate or cut them up, he would have done so (or at least made an effort to do so) instead of focusing all his effort on acquiring one of the magic weapons.

As for them burning in the sun - they do not die in the sun. Keep in mind that Elijah took the ring off to cause sparks to burn the oil in the air to take out his enemies... Notice that he himself was never worried for himself, and didn't hurt or even appear physically injured in the slightest. The rings make for convenient daylight travel; but nothing in the lore about their immortality or even their exposure to the sun should imply to you that it would actually do any real harm to them.

I don't think you can wish your way past the magic, without any real feats or showings that it can be done without more powerful magical based beings, white oak stakes, etc.

As to answer your question on what exactly would happen in the show if they lost a head, let us look on what we know from lore and what is established: they cannot die from anything other than white oak, etc. So what happened when they did lose body parts?

Answer: They regrew them.

So with those things in mind, there is precedence to say, lose a head: regrow body. Think: Wovlerine. But perhaps it might not happen that quickly without blood. But it would happen. And this isn't just making a no-limits fallacy, this is just following the lore, what was told - to the smaller effects we have witnessed. They have already survived worse... Being blown up in explosions more than big enough to level buildings... At the center of the blast.

Elena and Jeremy killed Kol in their first fight again him just to name some examples.Apparently the trick to beating an Original is to have some moderate skills and cunning, and Selene has way more of those than anyone in Vampire Diaries/Originals

Not even remotely true; as I have yet to see her lay elaborate LONG TERM plans to lure powerful enemies to their doom, like Klaus. He has demonstrated he is a cunning and ruthless strategist on a number of occasions.

You are right, in TO, they have demonstrated a lot of PIS for the sake of not killing the cast of TVD as easily as they could have. But that is just it, PIS. They showed at multiple times where pretty much one original had the entire team on the run and scrambling for answers. As for killing Kol, the thing you mentioned there - they had white oak...... Selene does not. And that was vs Kol; not Klaus. Klaus >> Kol. Strength, speed, cunning, and skill. All except for magical knowledge.

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#42 Posted by Delta16807 (482 posts) - - Show Bio

@king_majestros:

How?

@paragonnate:

Hmm, I guess I misjudged what you were trying to say there. Sorry about that. While I disagree with the expe lineups here, I have to agree with the rest of your hypothesis there.

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#43 Posted by RBT (26638 posts) - - Show Bio

@observer_guy: Pretty much every fight you mentioned had context behind it. The sole reason Jeremy and Elena took down Kol was because Kol(and everyone else) was under strict order from Klaus to not hurt Elena. And there was vervain involved. A whole lot of it.

As for Damon, Stefan and Tyler beating Klaus, that's not what happened. Literally all they did was overpower him(as in strength). It took two vampires and one hybrid to just match Klaus' strength while Bonnie did some mojo which stopped Klaus' heart. In a fair fight, Klaus would tear them apart just as casually as he was ripping apart Marcel's army.

Damon and Stefan taking down Elijah has to be one of the best showing of team play in show's history. It was outright clear from the showing who the superior combatant was. Elijah. And I'm pretty sure there was a vervain grenade involved. Again, in a straight up fight, Elijah would have ripped both of them apart.

To beat an original, you either need a good amount of vervain(Kol, Finn and Elijah), a white oak dagger(Mikeal) or witches(Klaus). Selene has none of those. All her bullets would do little to nothing to Klaus and considering he is faster than she is, I doubt she will even get to use them properly.

Elijah might have better feats, but its no secret that Klaus is stronger than he is. That much is clear from everytime they have fought. Klaus always comes on top.

"Oh no, we can't set these guys on fire or kill them with a normal stake (though it does knock them out for hours), this must be true"

Are you serious? Elijah literally stood in middle of an explosion that blew apart a freaking mansion and he was not even knocked out. Unless you are thinking about nuking them, there is no other conventional way of killing them. Heck, even if you were to rip put their heart somehow, they won't die.(Rebekah- Do you ever want to just rip out [Klaus'] heart and see how long it takes to grow back?)

Okay lets see what the show has actually shown. Entire arrows and objects have gone completely through their chest, and their necks can be broken, so clearly their bones aren't indestructible. So what happens when someone chops off a limb or their head? Everyone on the show is too stupid to try it, so we don't know.

That's because none of them are capable of it. Infact, going by statements, even that won't kill an original-

Klaus- I can watch as my hybrids tear you limb from limb.

Mikeal- That won't kill me.

Klaus- True. But it'd make for a great party game.

Julie Plec has outright stated that only physical thing that can kill and original is white oak stake. And maybe an insane amount of magic.

Even breaking their neck is something that has been achieved by other Originals or witches. To give you an idea of how strong and durable TVD vamps are, Elena, the weakest vampire in the series was able to land on her feet after jumping from over 500ft cliff and suffered absolutely no damage. And TVD vamps can casually punch through chest of someone as durable as them.

So what happens when you throw an Original into an incinerator or kick them into a volcano or something along those lines?

Damon was trying to burn Elijah with a blowtorch and did absolutely no damage to him. (Katherine- You can't kill him. He's indestructible. Damon- No kidding.)

If they can be burned by the sun, what happens when you remove their rings and keep them out in the sunlight the entire time so they can't recover?

Alaric, a temporary original vampire, was walking through sunlight and all he got was a bad case of sunburn. While it will hurt, it won't really kill them.

Stuff like Vervain still hurts them, so what happens when you radically poison them and keep it up? Everyone on the show is too stupid to try it, so we don't know. I remember Elijah was about to kill Klaus in the season 2 finale by ripping his heart out. Considering damage to the heart still works on a Original as repeatedly shown whenever they get stabbed in the heart whether it permanently kills them or not. What happens when a Original gets their heart ripped out? No one has ever gone full out doing this, so we don't know. Considering no one has even thought about chopping an Original's limb off, I'm going to guess no one has tried shoving an Original into a wood chipper or turbine engine or anything along those lines? That is correct. Do they have any rapid regeneration which is what makes them invincible? Not that I'm aware of. They never took anything beyond a few stab and bullet holes at a time. I'm really starting to see a pattern here.

Stuff like vervain is their kryptonite. Being weak to it does not take anything away from them. And literally everything you mentioned here is something that Selene can't do either, so I don't see the point in bringing it up. The thread is not about how indestructible Originals are. Its about Selene vs Klaus. And everything Selene brings to table, Klaus can do better. And Klaus has eaten bullets before with no lasting damage so it wouldn't be a problem either.

How exactly does Selene beat him again when Klaus and literally every advantage to speak of? Don't forget about compulsion. If all else fails..

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#44 Posted by Delta16807 (482 posts) - - Show Bio

@rbt:

Pretty good job. I was too lazy to bring up the actual character quotes, and at best I generalized and grabbed videos I thought might help. But yes, to any person who has seen much of either character, I would say Klaus has the edge in every single category that makes the slightest bit of difference here.

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#45 Posted by el-kun (238 posts) - - Show Bio

can some one show me any of the originals feat close to that of Marcus pulling down an helicopter , he did it way easier than captain America , even easier than Vincent Keller who would decimate the entire original family , and selene fliped movine van with her shoulder

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#46 Edited by deactivated-5a89ca5697052 (8063 posts) - - Show Bio

@el-kun said:

can some one show me any of the originals feat close to that of Marcus pulling down an helicopter , he did it way easier than captain America , even easier than Vincent Keller who would decimate the entire original family , and selene fliped movine van with her shoulder

They dont have as impressive strength feats as that.

Thats why selene slaughters.

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#47 Posted by RBT (26638 posts) - - Show Bio

@el-kun said:

can some one show me any of the originals feat close to that of Marcus pulling down an helicopter , he did it way easier than captain America , even easier than Vincent Keller who would decimate the entire original family , and selene fliped movine van with her shoulder

Elijah, IIRC, was able to cause a cave in by stomping his feet on the ground. As for Selene flipping a moving van, Tyler(a hybrid, but weaker than Klaus) stopped a SUV dead on impact. Much better feats.

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#48 Posted by Delta16807 (482 posts) - - Show Bio

@ithemanwithoutfeari:

What @rbt said, and also: more impressive speed feats, blitzing city limits in a second and being able to come into a room and snap the neck of people (in some cases, more than one) without so much of the slow blurry effect when Selene did it in the combat scene (so, faster).

Plus immortality, and I am not even going to list the rest of the disadvantages.

I am surprised so many people just keep saying 'Selene Stomps', but really have no clue on who the Originals even are; much less Klaus.

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#49 Posted by el-kun (238 posts) - - Show Bio

d brakes were already punched before Tyler stopped it and it was moving very slow ,look selen outclasses Klaus in every aspect ,go watch her fight with Marius on the ice in blood wars den u will understand

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#50 Posted by Delta16807 (482 posts) - - Show Bio

@el-kun:

I did. I say Klaus stomps Marius and Selene at the same time. The reason for the lack of strength feat, is because he hardly ever needs it. However, if you look at my striking feats from the last page of mine I posted, striking power is higher than what is needed to straight up decapitate people - not with a sword, but simply from the momentum of Klaus's fist. Enough to take small objects like coins, and use them as lethal projectiles.

But speed is so much of a stomp, it isn't funny. Even Blood War speed feat isn't as impressive as what we have gauged from the Originals.

And he can't die.