I can see Scarlet Witch will try to erase Zatanna from reality, but then Zatanna will come back and rip Scarlet Witch like Zatanna fight against Upside Down Man and Pralaya, both beyond multiverse and Sphere of the God
Especially as OP said full power, Zatanna has more control than Scarlet Witch especially in Chaos Magic.
Not to mention Zatanna once stopping Barry the Flash at Batman holy terror and Bloodlusted Superman at JLD animated movie. Forcing Billy Batson to say Shazam and make him back to his child form at Young Justice season 1. So yeah she has experience against blitzer too
Zatana is not going to be able to utter a letter let alone a word before Scarlet uses one of her hexes. And you guys aren't taking the time to consider that a full powered SW is capable of casually nuking her surroundings.
Zatana is not going to be able to utter a letter let alone a word before Scarlet uses one of her hexes. And you guys aren't taking the time to consider that a full powered SW is capable of casually nuking her surroundings.
1) Zatanna doesn't always need to talk in order to cast/attack
2) Wanda's combat speed is not faster than Zatanna's
Assuming "full power" doesn't mean HoM Wanda, then Zatanna wins this.
) Zatanna doesn't always need to talk in order to cast/attack
Consistently yes she does
2) Wanda's combat speed is not faster than Zatanna's
Yes it is.
Assuming "full power" doesn't mean HoM Wanda, then Zatanna wins this.
No she doesn't , Unlike zatanna Wanda doesn't need to talk to cast/attack , Wanda has stronger defence and offence , as well as comparable Hax.
1) I can provide you with several examples of Zatanna casting or attacking without speaking. It has been explicitly mentioned that she does not need to talk backwards in order to cast; she merely does it as a focus for her powers and as homage to her ancestry.
) Zatanna doesn't always need to talk in order to cast/attack
Consistently yes she does
2) Wanda's combat speed is not faster than Zatanna's
Yes it is.
Assuming "full power" doesn't mean HoM Wanda, then Zatanna wins this.
No she doesn't , Unlike zatanna Wanda doesn't need to talk to cast/attack , Wanda has stronger defence and offence , as well as comparable Hax.
1) I can provide you with several examples of Zatanna casting or attacking without speaking. It has been explicitly mentioned that she does not need to talk backwards in order to cast; she merely does it as a focus for her powers and as homage to her ancestry.
2) Prove it.
3) Prove it.
Or better yet, let's CaV it
Sounds good , oh and on the topic of CAV's , thevoidofdeath and pyrofn are looking to do a 2v2 CAV , Pyro Will be using Jean , the Void will be using Raven , i'll be using Wanda. Would you be interested in participating ?
) Zatanna doesn't always need to talk in order to cast/attack
Consistently yes she does
2) Wanda's combat speed is not faster than Zatanna's
Yes it is.
Assuming "full power" doesn't mean HoM Wanda, then Zatanna wins this.
No she doesn't , Unlike zatanna Wanda doesn't need to talk to cast/attack , Wanda has stronger defence and offence , as well as comparable Hax.
1) I can provide you with several examples of Zatanna casting or attacking without speaking. It has been explicitly mentioned that she does not need to talk backwards in order to cast; she merely does it as a focus for her powers and as homage to her ancestry.
2) Prove it.
3) Prove it.
Or better yet, let's CaV it
Sounds good , oh and on the topic of CAV's , thevoidofdeath and pyrofn are looking to do a 2v2 CAV , Pyro Will be using Jean , the Vodi will be using Raven , i'll be using Wanda. Would you be interested in participating ?
They already asked me about it, but I'm not really interested. 2v2 CAVs tend to get a little messy and complicated.
But if you're down to do Wanda vs. Zatanna, I can make the thread right now.
@geekryan: That's to bad . On to Wanda vs Zatanna I do Want to do the CAV it's honestly a good match , however , I don't want ot much on my plate , I kinda already agreed to participate in their 2v2 and I was really hoping you could join. So When I'm done with th 2v2 Cav or it gets canceleld I'll let ou know so we can do this CAV. Oh and by the way what Zatanna will you be using
@geekryan: That's to bad . On to Wanda vs Zatanna I do Want to do the CAV it's honestly a good match , however , I don't want ot much on my plate , I kinda already agreed to participate in their 2v2 and I was really hoping you could join. So When I'm done with th 2v2 Cav or it gets canceleld I'll let ou know so we can do this CAV. Oh and by the way what Zatanna will you be using
Alright.
And a composite of Pre-Crisis/Post-Crisis/Rebirth but mainly Post and Rebirth feats.
If you want though, I can post first and we can take our time with this CaV. I'm not one to rush through them anyways. I like to take my time with my research and posts.
Zatana is not going to be able to utter a letter let alone a word before Scarlet uses one of her hexes. And you guys aren't taking the time to consider that a full powered SW is capable of casually nuking her surroundings.
1) Zatanna doesn't always need to talk in order to cast/attack
I know; its actually one of the bigger things going for her here.
2) Wanda's combat speed is not faster than Zatanna's
How is this relevant to what I said.
Assuming "full power" doesn't mean HoM Wanda, then Zatanna wins this.
I might be wrong but i'm pretty sure the Scarlet witch that I was referring to when I said nuking her surroundings wasnt even HoM Scarlet.
Zatana is not going to be able to utter a letter let alone a word before Scarlet uses one of her hexes. And you guys aren't taking the time to consider that a full powered SW is capable of casually nuking her surroundings.
1) Zatanna doesn't always need to talk in order to cast/attack
I know; its actually one of the bigger things going for her here.
2) Wanda's combat speed is not faster than Zatanna's
How is this relevant to what I said.
Assuming "full power" doesn't mean HoM Wanda, then Zatanna wins this.
I might be wrong but i'm pretty sure the Scarlet witch that I was referring to when I said nuking her surroundings wasnt even HoM Scarlet.
Because you claimed Wanda would hex Zatanna before she can get a spell off lol. Wanda's magic isn't instant either, and she's been tagged by slower opponents before.
Good thing "nuking her surroundings" isn't something Wanda normally does, and it's something Zatanna can easily deal with via teleportation, absorption, shields, etc.
Zatanna has an answer for everything Wanda throws at her, and she has more versatility and hax.
Wanda's magic isn't instant either, and she's been tagged by slower opponents before.
-Never claimed her magic was instant
-Those anti-feats aren't even consistent.
Good thing "nuking her surroundings" isn't something Wanda normally does, and it's something Zatanna can easily deal with via teleportation, absorption, shields, etc.
Fair point.
-Not sure if shes faster than a nuke but ok.
Zatanna has an answer for everything Wanda throws at her, and she has more versatility and hax.
Versatility, I agree she does have more of. But hax? Nah, SW's most famous feat literally involves her doing the same thing Zatana does, but on a level that Doctor Strange doesnt even operate on.
Wanda's magic isn't instant either, and she's been tagged by slower opponents before.
-Never claimed her magic was instant
-Those anti-feats aren't even consistent.
Good thing "nuking her surroundings" isn't something Wanda normally does, and it's something Zatanna can easily deal with via teleportation, absorption, shields, etc.
Fair point.
-Not sure if shes faster than a nuke but ok.
Zatanna has an answer for everything Wanda throws at her, and she has more versatility and hax.
Versatility, I agree she does have more of. But hax? Nah, SW's most famous feat literally involves her doing the same thing Zatana does, but on a level that Doctor Strange doesnt even operate on.
You claimed Wanda would hex Zatanna first though, without anything to back that up. I'd actually argue Zatanna has better combat speed than Wanda.
They are consistent when it happens so often lol.
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Gallery
As if Wanda's magic is actually the power and speed of a nuke lol.
You seem to not know much about Zatanna. Wanda's hax is mostly limited to reality warping. Zatanna has that too, and a lot more.
As if Wanda's magic is actually the power and speed of a nuke lol.
You seem to not know much about Zatanna. Wanda's hax is mostly limited to reality warping. Zatanna has that too, and a lot more.
Just pointing out that none of these are anti-feats , as they were performed by a substantially weaker , slower , and less expirienced wanda.In some of those scans she doesn't even have magic , That's like trying to use low showings for 90's jean and apply them to current jean. Current pre death Wanda is substantially more powerful than her Pre HOM Counterpart. The only feat applicable to current Wanda is her fight against luminous , but luminous hard counters Wanda's powers and is capable of using Chaos Magic just like her , that's something Z can't do. So the majority of those scans aren't anti-feats whatsoever
As if Wanda's magic is actually the power and speed of a nuke lol.
You seem to not know much about Zatanna. Wanda's hax is mostly limited to reality warping. Zatanna has that too, and a lot more.
Just pointing out that none of these are anti-feats , as they were performed by a substantially weaker , slower , and less expirienced wanda.In some of those scnas she doesn't even have magic , That's like trying to use low showings for 90's jean and apply them to current jean. Current pre death Wanda is substantially more powerful than her Pre HOM Counterpart. The only feat applicable to current Wanda is her fight against luminous , but luminous hard counters Wanda's powers and is capable of using Chaos Magic just like her , that's something Z can't do. So the majority of those scans aren't anti-feats whatsoever
Can you prove that Wanda got a speed amp since then? Because although some of these scans are older, some are as recent as this century.
We don't completely disregard a character's past feats, whether they are good or bad. We take them into consideration, along with their recent ones. You can't pick and choose which feats count and which don't.
If you really want to get into this, then feel free to accept my CaV! You got Void's blessing too.
@geekryan: That's to bad . On to Wanda vs Zatanna I do Want to do the CAV it's honestly a good match , however , I don't want ot much on my plate , I kinda already agreed to participate in their 2v2 and I was really hoping you could join. So When I'm done with th 2v2 Cav or it gets canceleld I'll let ou know so we can do this CAV. Oh and by the way what Zatanna will you be using
Alright.
And a composite of Pre-Crisis/Post-Crisis/Rebirth but mainly Post and Rebirth feats.
If you want though, I can post first and we can take our time with this CaV. I'm not one to rush through them anyways. I like to take my time with my research and posts.
Alright. Sounds good , however can't you use just one version of Z , this is the issue I've always had when debating DC Characters , my opponent would start to use feats and abilities the character doesn't even have anymore . Pre crisis Z doesn't even exist anymore , I don't think it's fair for you to use several different versions of a character when some of those versions don't even exist anymore. So can you use one version of Z as I am only using 616 Wanda.
Can you prove that Wanda got a speed amp since then? Because although some of these scans are older, some are as recent as this century.
Not necessarily an amp , but her speed has grown over time , I can make direct comparisions between Pre HOM Wanda and Post HOM Wanda that showcase the latter is substantially faster.
Here pre HOM Wanda can't react to thor's body being thrown at her
Here Post HOM Wanda is capable of reacting to a blitz attempt from Thor
As you can see there has been a clear and blatant speed increase as Wanda has grown over time , Post HOM Wanda is consitently that fast with barely any anti-feats so it's not as this feat is an outlier , as she does it several times throughout the fight. Post HOM Wanda is consistenetly this fast , and is blatantly fast than Pre HOM Wanda , and Post HOM wanda has barely no anti-feats so it's not as if you can claim this is inconsitency , considering Post HOM Wanda is consitently this fast. There has been an evident speed increase , that has developed over time.
We don't completely disregard a character's past feats, whether they are good or bad. We take them into consideration, along with their recent ones. You can't pick and choose which feats count and which don't.
If those feats were performed by a substantially weaker version of a character , who isn't as strong as there current self , they aren't anti-feats whatsoever towards the current version of the character , As that character has gotten substantially stronger since then. I'm not Picking and choosing which feats count and which feats that don't , If those feats were performed by a weaker version of a character they aren't applicable as anti-feats to a far stronger version of a character.
@geekryan: That's to bad . On to Wanda vs Zatanna I do Want to do the CAV it's honestly a good match , however , I don't want ot much on my plate , I kinda already agreed to participate in their 2v2 and I was really hoping you could join. So When I'm done with th 2v2 Cav or it gets canceleld I'll let ou know so we can do this CAV. Oh and by the way what Zatanna will you be using
Alright.
And a composite of Pre-Crisis/Post-Crisis/Rebirth but mainly Post and Rebirth feats.
If you want though, I can post first and we can take our time with this CaV. I'm not one to rush through them anyways. I like to take my time with my research and posts.
Alright. Sounds good , however can't you use just one version of Z , this is the issue I've always had when debating DC Characters , my opponent would start to use feats and abilities the character doesn't even have anymore . Pre crisis Z doesn't even exist anymore , I don't think it's fair for you to use several different versions of a character when some of those versions don't even exist anymore. So can you use one version of Z as I am only using 616 Wanda.
That's actually not true. Pre-52 is now also considered canon to Rebirth for the most part. It's complicated, but many elements of Pre-52 are still considered canon in Rebirth, and New-52 is also considered canon to Rebirth. There have just been some retcons throughout.
It doesn't seem fair to restrict DC characters when the Marvel characters get their entire history of feats to draw from. Both Scarlet Witch and Zatanna made their first appearances in 1964.
However, I'd be willing to not use Zatanna's Pre-Crisis feats. Not that it makes a big difference, because her best feats are from Post-Crisis and onwards anyways. But you need to use base 616 Wanda. No amps, and no prep.
@geekryan: That's to bad . On to Wanda vs Zatanna I do Want to do the CAV it's honestly a good match , however , I don't want ot much on my plate , I kinda already agreed to participate in their 2v2 and I was really hoping you could join. So When I'm done with th 2v2 Cav or it gets canceleld I'll let ou know so we can do this CAV. Oh and by the way what Zatanna will you be using
Alright.
And a composite of Pre-Crisis/Post-Crisis/Rebirth but mainly Post and Rebirth feats.
If you want though, I can post first and we can take our time with this CaV. I'm not one to rush through them anyways. I like to take my time with my research and posts.
Alright. Sounds good , however can't you use just one version of Z , this is the issue I've always had when debating DC Characters , my opponent would start to use feats and abilities the character doesn't even have anymore . Pre crisis Z doesn't even exist anymore , I don't think it's fair for you to use several different versions of a character when some of those versions don't even exist anymore. So can you use one version of Z as I am only using 616 Wanda.
That's actually not true. Pre-52 is now also considered canon to Rebirth for the most part. It's complicated, but many elements of Pre-52 are still considered canon in Rebirth, and New-52 is also considered canon to Rebirth. There have just been some retcons throughout.
It doesn't seem fair to restrict DC characters when the Marvel characters get their entire history of feats to draw from. Both Scarlet Witch and Zatanna made their first appearances in 1964.
However, I'd be willing to not use Zatanna's Pre-Crisis feats. Not that it makes a big difference, because her best feats are from Post-Crisis and onwards anyways. But you need to use base 616 Wanda. No amps, and no prep.
I wouldn't say I'm limiting you by only asking you to use one version of Z , considering I'm only using one version of Wanda , but that's alright. So your using 3 different version of Z? , Post crisis , New 52 and rebirth , IDK I still think it isn't fair to use 3 different verions of a character , because If I present an argument that is doing well against post crisis Z , you can just present feats from new 52 Z that debunks said argument or proves it wrong , despite the fact that Post crisis Z isn't capable of the ability you used for New 52 Z. This is just an example but I think you can understand what I'm trying to say , Considering I'm only using 616 Wanda , I don't see how it's fair to allow you to use 3 different versions of all of which have their own unique ways of combating Wanda , it's essentialy a 3v1 CAV , and I just don't think that's fair.
@geekryan: That's to bad . On to Wanda vs Zatanna I do Want to do the CAV it's honestly a good match , however , I don't want ot much on my plate , I kinda already agreed to participate in their 2v2 and I was really hoping you could join. So When I'm done with th 2v2 Cav or it gets canceleld I'll let ou know so we can do this CAV. Oh and by the way what Zatanna will you be using
Alright.
And a composite of Pre-Crisis/Post-Crisis/Rebirth but mainly Post and Rebirth feats.
If you want though, I can post first and we can take our time with this CaV. I'm not one to rush through them anyways. I like to take my time with my research and posts.
Alright. Sounds good , however can't you use just one version of Z , this is the issue I've always had when debating DC Characters , my opponent would start to use feats and abilities the character doesn't even have anymore . Pre crisis Z doesn't even exist anymore , I don't think it's fair for you to use several different versions of a character when some of those versions don't even exist anymore. So can you use one version of Z as I am only using 616 Wanda.
That's actually not true. Pre-52 is now also considered canon to Rebirth for the most part. It's complicated, but many elements of Pre-52 are still considered canon in Rebirth, and New-52 is also considered canon to Rebirth. There have just been some retcons throughout.
It doesn't seem fair to restrict DC characters when the Marvel characters get their entire history of feats to draw from. Both Scarlet Witch and Zatanna made their first appearances in 1964.
However, I'd be willing to not use Zatanna's Pre-Crisis feats. Not that it makes a big difference, because her best feats are from Post-Crisis and onwards anyways. But you need to use base 616 Wanda. No amps, and no prep.
I wouldn't say I'm limiting you by only asking you to use one version of Z , considering I'm only using one version of Wanda , but that's alright. So your using 3 different version of Z? , Post crisis , New 52 and rebirth , IDK I still think it isn't fair to use 3 different verions of a character , because If I present an argument that is doing well against post crisis Z , you can just present feats from new 52 Z that debunks said argument or prove sit wrong , despite the fact that Post crisi Z isn't capable of the ability you used for New 52 Z. This is just an example but I think you can understand what I'm trying to say , Considering I'm only using 616 Wanda , I don't see how it's fair to allow you to use 3 different versions of all of which have their own unique ways of combating Wanda , it's essentialy a 3v1 CAV , and I just don't think that's fair.
Lol.... Sounds like you're making excuses.
I explained how they aren't actually different versions. In terms of canon, they are the same character but with some retcons. Wanda has been retconned plenty of times too, so how about we restrict her to just one retcon?
You can do the same exact thing if I present an anti-feat for 70s Wanda and you counter it with a feat for current Wanda.
This is how DC characters work. In almost every tournament and CaV, they get access to all of their Pre-52/New-52/Rebirth feats.
No really TBH , this is a great fight and I've been looking to use Wanda in a CAV for a while now , I just don't think it's fair for me to be facing 3 different versions of Z at once
. Wanda has been retconned plenty of times too, so how about we restrict her to just one retcon?
The difference is that it's still 616 Wanda , the quote on quote rectons she's under gone are still within the 616 verse.
You can do the same exact thing if I present an anti-feat for 70s Wanda and you counter it with a feat for current Wanda.
Again it's still 616 Wanda , the feats I present to counter your point were still performed by the same character from the exact same universe , it's not as if I'm using ultimate scarlet witch or any other version of Wanda to counter your point , the things I say about Wanda are things she's still capable of doing , on the other hand Z may have an ability she has as post crisis , but not rebirth and vice versa , there are some versions of Z who need to talk to cast/attack and there are some who don't , your essentialy trying to use a composite of different versions of a character , and I don't think that's fair considering I'm only using one version of a character
This is how DC characters work. In almost every tournament and CaV, they get access to all of their Pre-52/New-52/Rebirth feats.
This is blatantly not true , when doing Cav's with DC Characters you usually specify what version of the characters your using.
There is a waaaaaaaay more examples but I think you get the idea. Unless stated to be a composite , you do use a specific veriosn of a character in CAV's .
No really TBH , this is a great fight and I've been looking to use Wanda in a CAV for a while now , I just don't think it's fair for me to be facing 3 different versions of Z at once
. Wanda has been retconned plenty of times too, so how about we restrict her to just one retcon?
The difference is that it's still 616 Wanda , the qoute on qoute rectons she's under gone are sitill within the 616 verse.
You can do the same exact thing if I present an anti-feat for 70s Wanda and you counter it with a feat for current Wanda.
Again it's still 616 Wanda , the feats I present to counter your point were still performed by the same character from the exact same universe , it's not as if I'm using ultimate scarlet witch or any other version of Wanda to counter your point , the things I say about Wanda are things she's still capable of doing , on the other hand Z may have an ability she has as post crisis , but nor rebirth and vice versa , there are some versions of Z who need to talk to cast/attack and there are some who don't , your essentialy trying to use a composite of different versions of a character , and I don't think that's fair considering I'm only using one version of a character
This is how DC characters work. In almost every tournament and CaV, they get access to all of their Pre-52/New-52/Rebirth feats.
This is blatantly not true , when doing Cav's wth DC Characters you usually specify what version of the characters your using.
There is a waaaaaaaay more examples but I think you get the idea. Unless stated to be a composite , you do use a specific veriosn of a character in CAV's .
You are so blatantly wrong and not understanding what I have repeated twice now about the "versions" of Zatanna. Canonically, THEY ARE THE SAME PERSON. There has never been more than one Zatanna.
The Pre-52, New-52, and Rebirth versions of Zatanna are the same character. Pre-Crisis and Post-Crisis Zatanna are the same character. The only difference is some retcons, just like Wanda has experienced.
I've been on CV muuuuuch longer than you Godly. Here are several debates I have participated in myself where DC was composite and not restricted to just one "version":
I can post a ton more in which I did not participate in.
Zatanna has always exhibited the same power throughout her history: magic. I know Zatanna's history. I made her RT.
And I already said this:
However, I'd be willing to not use Zatanna's Pre-Crisis feats. Not that it makes a big difference, because her best feats are from Post-Crisis and onwards anyways. But you need to use base 616 Wanda. No amps, and no prep.
Which you ignored.
Because I'm so confident in Zatanna beating Wanda, I'm even be willing to restrict her to her feats from 2011 to the present, i.e. New-52 & Rebirth. That gives you almost 60 years of Wanda's feats to use, whereas I get 10 years of feats to use for Zatanna
If you won't accept that, then I'm done with your excuses.
I agree with geek tbh, not really fair to restrict DC characters to just one time period whereas Marvel characters are allowed their entire history of feats, and a lot of DC characters have survived the Crisis and recall their past histories.
Plus people severely overestimate Pre-Crisis characters, they're not consistently operating on insane levels, and quite often they'll end up being on even footing with post crisis characters.
I agree with geek tbh, not really fair to restrict DC characters to just one time period whereas Marvel characters are allowed their entire history of feats, and a lot of DC characters have survived the Crisis and recall their past histories.
Plus people severely overestimate Pre-Crisis characters, they're not consistently operating on insane levels, and quite often they'll end up being on even footing with post crisis characters.
I also agree with Ryan. it's completely unfair to be able to use only one time period, when you get her entire history. 616 has been the main timeline without any huge changes.
You claimed Wanda would hex Zatanna first though, without anything to back that up. I'd actually argue Zatanna has better combat speed than Wanda.
They are consistent when it happens so often lol.
Actually, I meant that there are way more showings of her being faster compared to ones of her being slower. Not only that, but she actually proves to be faster than bullets in reaction time in almost every appearance. She has also blocked nukes so what does that tell you?
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Every super hero has anti-feats, Geekryan. These scans literally carry no weight unless every one of those characters are no-name fodders; and I hate to break it to you but Thor isn't exactly a fodder. And if we're on the topic of Thor and Wanda, then you should be more considerate of the time she blitzed him by throwing a bus at him.
As if Wanda's magic is actually the power and speed of a nuke lol.
I'm sorry, I cant find the scan I was looking for so i'll back off the nuke thing.
You seem to not know much about Zatanna. Wanda's hax is mostly limited to reality warping. Zatanna has that too, and a lot more.
Cute.
I'm looking at your respect thread for Zatana right now and it really doesn't seem like she goes for anything other than her begone spells when she first starts, so her versatility means nothing. If she's in character shes only gonna go for "begone", "bind them", or an enegy blast that probably wont phase Scarlets shields.
You claimed Wanda would hex Zatanna first though, without anything to back that up. I'd actually argue Zatanna has better combat speed than Wanda.
They are consistent when it happens so often lol.
Actually, I meant that there are way more showings of her being faster compared to ones of her being slower. Not only that, but she actually proves to be faster than bullets in reaction time in almost every appearance. She has also blocked nukes so what does that tell you?
Gallery
Gallery
Every super hero has anti-feats, Geekryan. These scans literally carry no weight unless every one of those characters are no-name fodders; and I hate to break it to you but Thor isn't exactly a fodder. And if we're on the topic of Thor and Wanda, then you should be more considerate of the time she blitzed him by throwing a bus at him.
As if Wanda's magic is actually the power and speed of a nuke lol.
I'm sorry, I cant find the scan I was looking for so i'll back off the nuke thing.
You seem to not know much about Zatanna. Wanda's hax is mostly limited to reality warping. Zatanna has that too, and a lot more.
Cute.
I'm looking at your respect thread for Zatana right now and it really doesn't seem like she goes for anything other than her begone spells when she first starts, so her versatility means nothing. If she's in character shes only gonna go for "begone", "bind them", or an enegy blast that probably wont phase Scarlets shields.
Want to CaV it then?
And Zatanna's RT isn't complete. She has feats that I didn't add to it yet. If you had to skim through the RT to know what Zatanna's capable of then you clearly know nothing about Zatanna and you're wanking Wanda out of bias.
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