Scarlet Witch VS Jean Grey(Phoenix)

@TheWhitePrince 
 
lemme school you right quick 
 
the phoenix force is not affected by reality warping; The Force was not affected by HoM.. it was reavealed that it was the force that finally broke the scarlety witch's spell in the first place. Also remember During the House of M event, Psylocke and Marvel Girl ( Rachel Summers/Grey) would be pulled into the White Hot Room by a holoemphatic crystal, that Jean Grey had left for Rachel, to protect them from the effects of Scarlet Witches powers. So Phoenix is superior to reality warping powers. so there!! 
 
also what are you talking about separate the force and jean grey.. do you remember when galactus tried to do this to Rachel...

Galactus tried separating the Phoenix Force from then host Rachel Summers and release it back to the universe? as he was doing it, stars started going dim and were dying.. later, omniversal guardian Roma, Uatu the Watcher and even Death itself appeared before Galactus and told him that he cannot separate the host from the Phoenix forcefully, for if he does, all life will cease to exist and no spark of life will ever come about.. so wanda separatingg the two is not happening.. The Phoenix Force sought out Jean; not the other way aroundd 
 
Wanda would be Powerless against a Phoenix filled Jean Grey

Wanda wins easily..her probability/reality warping magic would shatter Phoenix's vaunted unbeatableness..(like hHrcules decking gGlactus..)..This is my vote anyway & not based on popularity but rationale..

Also it was argued Wanda had low self esteem/self control..thats just bad writing anyone whos followed avengers since the 70;s knows she was leader of Avengers many times & that that is just current writer syndrome or whatever you wanna call it..

I want to know what happened to black bolt & Vulcan when will we find out?

@PrinceKelly2010: @geraldthesloth:

but jean is the nexus of probablilites like so......

x-factor 8

Jean Grey without Phoenix Force can Mind Rape Wanda in a blink of a eye. With PF as white Crown she stomps pretty hard. Heck the Phoenix power alone would have undid Wanda HoM magic to bring back Mutants.

This is so hard to think, but still I'll go with jean.

As I know, SW's power was to manipulate probability and reality. She also can create a hex bolt which is her primary weapon. She might be omega level mutant but I don't know for sure. It doesn't say anything about her class level or mutant level.

Whereas jean was one of the few omega level mutant that possess dual psychic powers- telekinesis & telepathy.

If you search at wiki or x-men wikia, it is written that jean's power was destructive and fatal enough but that was before the phoenix showed and took over her. She was bonded with the phoenix force from the begining, and also if you have watched the movie in the x men: the last stand, xavier said to logan that her potential is limitless. She become a pure source of energy itself after she was controlled by phoenix.

Scarlet witch is also a very powerful nemesis that could change reality and also capable of using telekinesis by using her probability manipulation.

But her power itself is more likely to be physical damaging powers whereas jean's power can damage both physical and psychical part. She possess one of the most powerful psionic powers which scarlet witch don't have.

After jean was took over by phoenix, her telepathy becomes really really strong that she can disintegrate and atomize every single things into subatomic level. Yet phoenix force can absorb an energy directly from scott's laser beam, havok's beam and also scarlet witch's hex bolt.

Don't hate me for my opinion but considering the most and less possibilities of both character, I would say jean is more likely to win.

bump

in cartoons, jean was just a host. in comics she merged with the phoenix force. none of the phoenix hosts were shown to have the universe held in their hands but jean. whatever hom wanda can do, jean can do much better with perfect accuracy. she is a goddess now. she is immortal. wanda is not. jean is immune to reality warp.wanda said no more mutants the universe changed but there were still mutants left. chaos and probabilty used on jean wouldn't work. jean popping sw's eyes out of her body would end the battle in a sec.if wanda would try to make the phoenix not exist, she will also cease to exist.

People cannot be serious in this thread....

White Crown Stomps out HOM Wanda

Green Phoenix stomps Wanda .

Wanda loses normally and at her peak, and everywhere in between lol this should be locked.

Phoenix would take it

Phoenix

Phoenix stomps

Wanda was stalemated by Hope as an Avatar for the Phoenix. Jean wrecks.

The Scarlet witch may have hexing manipulations power that have been heighten over the years, Jean Grey on the other hand is an omega level telepath that can reconstruct matter. Because Ms. Grey is the main host of the Phoenix Force her powers are unlimitless. If the SW somehow defeats and/ or kill the Phoenix force(unlikely to happen), the cosmic entity will be reborn over and over again. SW would be exhausted and her power drained, thereby rendering her incapable of winning against the Phoenix Force.

@jean_luc_lebeau: uhmm im pretty sure jean can do that too..

it only takes a second for a very powerful telekenetic to blow someone's head. This is rachel but they have the same powerset.

When Doctor Strange identified her as it.

If we go by Logic here, Scarlet Witch wins without a doubt. You can argue that Jean and the Phoenix Force is the strongest Character in the entire Marvel Universe but with Scarlet Witch's Reality Warping powers she can easily take the role of the writer of the comics and erase the entire marvel universe at her will. We are talking about reality warping here right? that's basically a Power of a GOD. I am only using Logic here. I am not a fan of both.

@xnaughtguilex: Taking the role of the writers? I don't mean to sound reason, only to say that it isn't logical exactly. Do you also realize that the Phoenix has reality warping as well? By that same logical, Jean could do the same thing. Not mentioning the fact that no reality warper has ever done that because their perception is barred towards their own reality and the multiverse if they are shown it.

Phoenix.

Jean grey wins she's actually the strongest character of the marvel universe

Phoenix.

Ppl seem to very much misunderstand the Phoenix Force. It represents life (which is creation), death (the big Bang) and rebirth meaning without the Phoenix force there would be no life in the omniverse except TOAA himself.

It is also the nexus of all psionic energies which means it is immune to psionic powers. Plus due to it being the nexus, all psionic users has to drain energy from the Force in order to use their powers, the last part is more of à theory but also logical. So it is completely invisible even in the eyes of the Living Tribunal.

So Lets go back to Jean Grey vs Wanda, first of all Jean is an omega level mutant with vast telekinetic and telepathic abilities, her telekinetic powers rnt only about moving objects with her mind but rearranging the moleculer, transmutating, healing, turning into invisible by altering her moleculer.

She is completely à matter manipulator aka omnikenises with her own powers, and her telepathy is à level where She can easily control trillions of ppl at the same time, with ease. In NEW MUTANTS she telepathically put the Pr X's mind (Who was dying at the moment) into millions of ppl and then gathered those fractions minds of him back into his body without losing any memory or him in the process.

The Pr X himself said what she did was impossibe. So Jean on her own omega level powers can pretty much handle Wanda any time in the week. Wanda is powerful but there is no being more dangerous than psychics. Where u can alter matter, reality or time the psychics alter u without u even noticing and can make u their bitches. Hope that explains everything.

Jean with the Phoenix Force is à cosmic being and i am talking about GF and DF while WPOTC is creation itself. As GF she can manipulate the entire universe, cut any part or create them Where as DF She is More than à universe. Her powers will be telekinesis, telepathy, energy manipulation, life force manipulation, time manipulation, space manipulation, reality warping, matter manipulation, strength, speed, durability, stamina etc. She is not just telekinesis and telepathic of the highest order

Wanda would so win she can alter reality i mean come on i do love Jean but Wanda would win

@emmett_frost:I think you need to read @walruspotato's comment, the Phoenix is the life and death, Wanda cannot create a universe without it.

Jean easily

Wanda needed Hope's help to beat a weaker Phoenix

@stevetinoco: i dont recall backing Wand up in This debate, so where is this coming from?

@_kingoflatveria: did she or they really? I recall Cyclops being distracted by Jean and giving them The time they needed to win, and Scott was holding back as well. We r talking about Dark/Phoenix here who was actually depowered,

@walruspotato: You do realize the Phoenix can resist reality warping and has resisted Wanda’s reality warping before. In fact, the Phoenix is the one that broke Wanda’s spell to begin with which was said to be unbreakable and spread throughout the multiverse. Not to mention the fact that Phoenix can warp reality as well. Not sure what your line of thinking is, but Wanda isn’t beating Phoenix alone, especially Jean Grey as Phoenix.

@emmett_frost: Yup. In Avengers vs X-Men #10, Scott with half the Phoenix withstood Wanda’s attack with no injury, but was solo’d by Hope who absorbed Shao Lao’s power. Later, the Dark Phoenix battle had Hope using Wanda’s and Shao Laos powers alongside Wanda. Honestly, I really think hope didn’t need Wanda there to begin with, but that’s how it went.

@stevetinoco: Might want to switch who you tagged. It makes it seem like you’re telling emmet to read walrus comment when it should be the other way around. Lol.

@pyrofn: even Hope isnt powerful enough to battle a Phoenix host. And Hope didnt beat him, Jean distracted him and showed him what he became, it was Cyclops giving up and letting them beat him. God all he needed to do was deny them from living, cos y'know he is the Phoenix. Hope was suppose to be The most powerful and dangerous mutant to exist but she was dumbed. That witch even dublicated some powers of the Phoenix force.

@emmett_frost: Not on her own, but Hope has the added benefit of being a potential host herself. That special connection she has with the Phoenix is why she could face a host on her own with the right preparation. It’s like Jean facing Phoenix Emma in Endsong. That connection is a vulnerability a host, current or not, can exploit and Hope has that. Therefore, Scarlet Witch was not needed at all for anything other than maybe direction for her more proficient use of her powers. Hope can easily could easily use Wanda’s powers in conjunction with Shao Laos to defeat Dark Phoenix.

Scott did need to let go, true because Hope was meant for the Phoenix, but that wouldn’t mean the Phoenix would leave willingly after being driven to madness, ergo Scott wasn’t entirely responsible for the fight and Scarlet Witch was unneeded since she alone can’t affect the Phoenix. Hope then gets the most credit for her connection.

Jean as the White Phoenix held the universe in her hand. She was able to easily alter reality IIRC. Jean would take this IMO

@pyrofn: i don't think Hope is that kinda person. He she is the seconfirmation best true Phoenix. There is this theory about hope being made by the WPOTC and that she is the cHild of Phoenix.

But even Hope isn't powerful enough to defeat DP. Jean managed to show Cyclops that he lost his mind. He gave up and that's how he was defeated. If he were to continue fighting everything would be turned to ashes.

Wanda can harm him with her powers. She is one of the most dangerous if not the most dangerous being on earth or the entire universe.

Wanda got this.

@emmett_frost: Tell That two half-Phoenix empowered Cyclops who remained unharmed to Wanda’s attacks and was absolutely pulverized by Hope Summers barely using Shao Laos powers for the first time in issue 10 of Avengers vs X-Men. Wanda is far from the most dangerous. Wanda was only capable of hurting the Five with divided Phoenix pieces to a point. Once the pieces were gathered to two halves, should couldn’t so much as affect Scott. Meanwhile, Hope Summers was not only capable of hurting Scott, she literally was capable of launching him (or commanding him, the feat is still pretty ambiguous) to the moon. Hope had the tools and training to fight Scott.

What I can agree on is Scott having the capability of destroying everything has he not let go. That’s exactly why Hope had the chance. I wasn’t trying to imply she could take down a bloddlusted Dark Phoenix, I was implying Wanda was unnecessary in the battle.

@pyrofn: i disagree about Hope. Yes she was suppose to be the most powerful mutant with her mimic powers, but she definitely can't handle a DF, at all. Just how powerful do u think DF is? Wanda is the most dangerous due to her powers to bend probability.

She can make unnatural things to happen and natural things to not happen, good luck charms as well as give bad luck. Don't get me started on CHAOS MAGIC. She is very OP.

I am not comparing her to cosmic entities, but she is a nexus. That gives her the potential to be even more powerful than the fundamental forces of the universe. The Phoenix Force is another story tho.

I believe Dark Phoenix to be the ultimate expression of the Phoenix capabilities when it’s in the driver seat, unlike a host. The problem with it is that it still has the glaring weakness of its host, resisting it at every turn.

Hope Summers isn’t just the Mutant Messiah, she is a Phoenix host. Her connection to the Force is what gives her the ability to defeat it, much like Jean Grey before her in Endsong. That is why she was really the only one needed. She had training and access to power necessary to accomplish her job.

Dangerous or not, Wanda was still unnecessary to the battle against Dark Phoenix. As powerful as she is, the affects of her powers on the Phoenix was minimal, only applicable really on 1/5th of the Forces power, not half of it, let alone the entire thing. Issue 10 proved that and issue 11 showed her assisted by her father and Xavier. That’s why my guess on Wanda’s role was to guide Hope, especially when expelling the Phoenix.

phoenix win easily, someone lock this

Why does this keep getting bumped?Jean erases Wanda.

@princekelly2010: jean doesnt even have to use telepathy. she can blow wanda's head in a second.

Wanda: no more

(jean tk pops wanda's head) BOOOM!!!

Jean: eeeewww!!!

@princekelly2010: Yes, I know I'm a "bit" late. But I agree with your statement about Wanda winning the duel. Some may argue that she doesn't have full control of her powers, but she can control and manipulate reality itself. So, this means that Wanda can reach into the Multi-Verse, changing reality itself to where The Phoenix Force never existed or Jean's powers never manifested and the Phoenix Force never chose Jean, because warping reality has a special spark that can control everything in that certain universe it takes place. In the main Universe that we're used to in the comics, Universe 616, is where the win would happen, because her powers can't change EVERY universe in the Multi-Verse because her power is not in that region of limits. So, technically, in OTHER universes Jean would win, and in the others Wanda would win. It really depends on the universe they're in, but if Wanda plays her cards correctly, the main Marvel Universe would contain a win from Wanda, and a loss for Jean.

wanda. she's a reality warper even outside of HOM, Avengers no surrender#689/690 when fighting the challenger/grandmaster prime , wanda amps fodder avengers, guys like hawkeye, beast etc,altering probability, making them defeat the challenger in a fight , the same guy took care of immortal hulk mid difficulty.

avengers world run, dr doom wanted to rewrite his wrongs, changing reality where he is a good guy, everything bad he's ever done, guess which power he needed for the warping? wanda's, dr doom couldn't even faced her, so he built a machine meant to steal her powers and gathers avengers team to lure her into it, stil wanda broke free and the machine only harnessed fraction of her powers, so dr doom can't alter his reality anymore and also Scott lang's reality at the same tims, he had to choose one, so he decided to help scott lang by creating a reality where scott lang dead daughter would be alive. that's with small fraction of the witch powers.

but who am I kidding, phoenix wins but only if wanda is moral on, if she's out for blood, I think regular green phoenix jean can't match her.

WPOTC stomps.

@princekelly2010: I agree with the statement that Scarlet Witch would win this fight, since we know she could use more then one of her abilities at the same time, she could manipulate the probability of all of Jean's attacks to miss or not work, WHILE she says "No More Phoenix", at least getting rid of most of it- saying that he is most likely able to fight off a portion of the Phoenix Force. And let's take a look at Wanda's powers; Flight, Chaos Magic Manipulation, Reality Warp/Manipulation, Magic Manipulation, Hexes, Probability Manipulation | Scarlet Witch is as well a "Nexus Being Of Magic", giving her connections to more magic. Let's explain her abilities in more depth though, to get an understanding...

One of Wanda's most known power is Reality Warping, and that is where she can look into the MARVEL Multi-Verse, controlling the Events Which Take Place. So she taps into the Multi-Verse, controlling the Universe that she's in to go her way of choice, so she can take away things that will take away that WOULD be helpful for Jean, like Jean's mutant abilities, and the Phoenix Force. What would also be likely is that Wanda made her win in the Universe 616, the Main(Comics) Universe for MARVEL. Her Probability Manipulation would make the majority of Jean's attacks miss, or not be able to work. Her Magic Manipulation would be able to block jeans attacks, and as seen in comics, Wanda has a hex that can take someones abilities away for a short period of time, (Like when she did it to Jean back when she was "Marvel Girl"). Her Chaos Magic is powerful, and will be a strong factor for the fight. Wanda also has a temper sometimes, and when she get's going, she's hard to beat, but is also known to not have full control over her powers/abilities and be overwhelmed easily.

And in the other corner, we have Phoenix/ Jean Grey. Jean's mutant abilities(Not counting the phoenix): Psychokinesis, Astral Projection, Telepathy | Phoenix: Flight, Pyrokinesis, Can Manipulate Cosmic Energy's, Life Manipulation(Creation As well), Energy Absorption/ Manipulation, Reality Warp/ Manipulation, Mental Abilities of Cosmic Scope, Matter Manipulation, | Phoenix is as well a "Nexus Being Of All Psionic Energy". I don't think her powers need explaining since they're pretty intelligible. Phoenix has only reached it's full power, with the host of Rachel Summers, given to her by The Beyonder. So Jean can't reach full power by herself, and has full control over her powers(that she has at the instance).

THE FIGHT:(This is a Fan-Fiction fight, otherwise it's a fight that I think it would happen like)

Jean(Currently Dark Phoenix, Otherwise- Why Would They Be Fighting... Also this is taking place in space for fun) is currently harassing the Avengers & X-Men who are trying to stop her, because the Phoenix Force is corrupting her. The majority of the teams are taken out, and right when Jean thinks it's over, Wanda arrives, and starts to mutter: "No more-", but then is interfered by a flaming beam that hits her, knocking her back, struggling to get up, Wanda feels something in her stomach growing, quickly using Chaos magic to control it, destroying it- She looks back at Jean, seeing her rushing towards Wanda, and Wanda prepares a Magic Shield. Jean is being picky- wanting to play with her food like a cat does- but that doesn't work. While Jean is trying to destroy the shield- Wanda Starts to manipulate Reality- but so does the Corrupted Jean. Jean is faster though, and destroys the shield while Wanda starts to fade away- then suddenly coming back as Wanda used probability Manipulation to make it not work on her, but on Cyclops(Heheh). The majority of the Phoenix Force is destroyed by her Reality Manipulation, now she just has to fight the rest. Jean realizes something is wrong, glaring at Wanda shouting: "WHAT DID YOU DO?!" Wanda quickly sends Chaos Magic to destroy the rest, but Jean blocks it- Jean quickly realizes that Wanda is a threat and is taken off guard. Wanda uses the full strength of all the magic she has left to blast Jean, killing most of the fractured Phoenix Force, which is returning Jean to her normal Mutant state.(Since Jean had the Phoenix Force in her for a while, Jean is back to her mutant state, No longer Corrupted) Jean starts to wake from the corruption, confused.

THE END(Did you enjoy >w<)