Scarlet Witch VS Jean Grey(Phoenix)

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PrinceKelly2010

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#1  Edited By PrinceKelly2010

Scarlet Witch Full power VS Jean Grey Full power with or without the Phoenix Force!
I think that either way Scarlet Witch would win.
Telepathy&Telekinesis VS Reality Manipulation.



Who Wins

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Erik

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#2  Edited By Erik

Where was it ever stated that Wanda is the "Nexus Being of Magic"?

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geraldthesloth

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#3  Edited By geraldthesloth
erik said:
"Where was it ever stated that Wanda is the "Nexus Being of Magic"?"
lmao seriously
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jbeyer418

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#4  Edited By jbeyer418

Sheer power isn't everything.  SW has pretty consistently been portrayed as having little control over her capabilities (the House of M storyline being the main exception).  Indeed, if anything, Jean's realm (the mind) is exactly where SW has the least control, as evidenced by her repeated breakdowns and flimsy self-esteem.  If SW had Jean's level of control, then yeah, the Witch wins hands down.  But she doesn't, and never has.  Jean doesn't need to beat the Witch--she can get her to beat herself.

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geometry

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#5  Edited By geometry

LMAO

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weaponxx

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#6  Edited By weaponxx

If both were completely sane and were prepared to battle: SW=JG. SW<<<<<<<Phoenix Jean Grey

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Erik

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#7  Edited By Erik

Jean Grey.

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PrinceKelly2010

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#8  Edited By PrinceKelly2010

But Professor X shut down her mind(While in Genosha, Magneto asked Professor X to help Wanda but he refuses to do so. Instead, Xavier put Wanda in a coma.) but she was still able to change reality anyway into HOM., Xavier is the one of the most powerful telepaths (Or The Most Powerful) on the planet, so I don't think Jean's Telepathy would really make any difference(Even though it has been stated that she might be a more powerful telepath than him.) I still don't think jean would win.

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Erik

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#9  Edited By Erik

How would she not win if she is arguably more powerful than Xavier? Your post contradicts itself. She did not change reality while in the coma.

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PrinceKelly2010

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#10  Edited By PrinceKelly2010

Xavier attempted to shut down her mind but wasn't successful. He only weakened her but she was still able to change reality. What I'm saying is, if he is supposed to be the most powerful telepath then why couldn't he shut down her mind. If he could surpress Jean's powers then why couldn't he surpress Wanda's.... She is stronger that's why.

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Erik

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#11  Edited By Erik

Lol. She is not stronger. But I lack the comic to properly shut you down right now. So you will just have to wait.

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The_Ghostshell

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#12  Edited By The_Ghostshell

I'll go with Wanda. Her magic is only a piece of what makes her dangerous. Her probability manipulation has allowed her to take down characters like Ultron single handedly.

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Erik

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#13  Edited By Erik
PrinceKelly2010 said:
"Xavier attempted to shut down her mind but wasn't successful. He only weakened her but she was still able to change reality. What I'm saying is, if he is supposed to be the most powerful telepath then why couldn't he shut down her mind. If he could surpress Jean's powers then why couldn't he surpress Wanda's.... She is stronger that's why."
When did Xavier suppress Jean's powers aside from when she was a child?
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PrinceKelly2010

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#14  Edited By PrinceKelly2010

That's what I'm talking about! If he could surpress Jean's power when she was a child and she had telepathy herself, it might not had been fully developed or at her controll but it was still there. Her telepathy was at the time (When she was still a child)strong enough to detect Scott Summers miles away when Xavier couldn't. Wanda doesn't have telepathy so it should have been easier for him to shut down her powers because since she doesn't have telepathy Xavier didn't have to go through all that pyschic mess that he did with Jean to surpress her power. To rest my case I still go with Wanda!

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Erik

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#15  Edited By Erik
PrinceKelly2010 said:
"That's what I'm talking about! If he could surpress Jean's power when she was a child and she had telepathy herself, it might not had been fully developed or at her controll but it was still there. Her telepathy was at the time (When she was still a child)strong enough to detect Scott Summers miles away when Xavier couldn't. Wanda doesn't have telepathy so it should have been easier for him to shut down her powers because since she doesn't have telepathy Xavier didn't have to go through all that pyschic mess that he did with Jean to surpress her power. To rest my case I still go with Wanda!"
Strong enough yes, but untrained and uncontrollable. Her sensing Cyclops is the equivalent to you accidentally stepping in dog excrement. Unintentional and only noticeable after you have done it. In closing, Phoenix wins very very easily. 
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The_Ghostshell

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#16  Edited By The_Ghostshell

LOL

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IcePrince_X

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#17  Edited By IcePrince_X

Phoenix wins.

There are several aspect of Jean's powers that Wanda can not react to in split of a second. Jean can telepathically control/alter/destroy Wanda's mind as well as physically crush her bones at the same time. Granting that you said Jean is Phoenix here makes her more dangerous as Wanda can not possibly compete some thing cosmic. The Phoenix Force can not simply be contained or altered, even when it was tried to be manipulated by magic, it was able to resist it. Remember Rachel's gene is very much similar to her mom. 

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AngelFrost

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#18  Edited By AngelFrost

Wanda =]
Jean Grey is very powerful, but Wanda has her hexes which can completely turn Jean's powers around.

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TheWhitePrince

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#19  Edited By TheWhitePrince

This debate could go on until the end of time, on one hand you have Wanda, who without mental stability can be suggested to rewrite reality (as Doctor Strange showed Beast in X-Men: Endangered Species) and in HOM Jean Grey was non existant - which is strange because to me, wouldn't Jean have been what Scott would want most? - on the other hand you have the being that is life, death and everything in between. Yet, the Shi'ar can create a weapons to destroy the Phoenix Force, so one assumes that Wanda, given enough mental stability or given the right suggestion could wipe Jean Grey from existance, therefore leaving the Phoenix Force without a host, and free to be the Goddess it is. I mean, yes Jean could take her out whilst Wanda is concentrating on her hex/spell/magics whatever you wish to refer to them as, but if Wanda was able to bounce the Tp and TK back, away or simply have them not effect her, then yes Wanda would win. If you were to have the two of them stand on a stage and say 3 2 1 GO! then Jean Grey would win within seconds.

Did that make any sense?

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THUNDERBOLT30

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#20  Edited By THUNDERBOLT30

This would be a bada$$ fight but I would go with Jean Grey. She has greater control of her power and with the Phoenix Force augmenting her powers, this would not be much of a fight. I think Wanda would have a better chance of winning if it were left to hand to hand combat (being by Captain America). I think then the dvantage would be hers. 

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jeangreydonnatroy

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jean grey will win

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cornelia grey

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#22  Edited By cornelia grey

i vote for jean grey because i thought that she's now one with the phoenix and the phoenix is very strong so don't hate me for saying me opinion

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jbeyer418

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#23  Edited By jbeyer418

 

PrinceKelly2010 said:
Xavier attempted to shut down her mind but wasn't successful. He only weakened her but she was still able to change ... [more]


 

I see where you're coming from, but I'd still have to go with Jean.  Keep in mind that Xavier wasn't trying to beat Wanda in a battle (in which case he could have done something like wipe her mind if he wanted to (as he did to Magneto back in X-Men #25), but trying to cure her mental instability.  In fact, Xavier was there precisely because of Wanda's lack of control--exactly the trait I contended would lead to her downfall against Jean.
I agree that Wanda is more powerful (let's face it, if Wanda had the degree of control and the ruthlessness her father has, she'd be nearly unstoppable), but raw power isn't everything (that's why Ultron, Thanos and Korvac keep losing).  If it was, the original X-Men would have died at the hands of Magneto back in their premiere issue.
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TheWhitePrince

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#24  Edited By TheWhitePrince
Phoenix of the Black Throne said:
TheWhitePrince said: This debate could go on until the end of time, on one hand you have Wanda, who without ... [more]
But thats not what I meant, the fact was Jean is what Scott would want most and therefore, no matter where she was, she should have been in the story, I mean, she brought back the dead, and technically Jean was dead. The HOM happened before Phoenix Endsong and Warsong, so her body was 6 feet under. The Phoenix was in the White Hot Room, meaning that it can exist without Jean. 
So, all Wanda would need to do is remove Jean from the equation, the Phoenix would be free do as it liked, and whilst it would burn away all that it deemed unfit, technically Jean would be defeated... or not exist at all. 
I understand what you have said, but like I say, HOM happened before Jean physically entered the White Hot Room with Phoenix.
As for the Shi'ar weaponary, the weapon they power up in Endsong is said to destroy the Phoenix, unless they were meaning Jean Grey, and they are under the assumption that destroying Jean destorys the Phoenix Force. 
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TheWhitePrince

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#25  Edited By TheWhitePrince

How does it prove she could not raise her?

She was able to bring back the dead and Jean was dead as a doornail. You can't argue that.
It simply proves that she was not written into the story line. But if she was, and seeing as this is a if kinda forum, then, Jean would be able to be brought back. 
Ok so the weapon wasnt what they thought right... Still Scarlet Wtich can re write reality. Under so much stress, but say she had complete control over her power, just as Jean have control over her emotions and in turn the Phoenix. Scarlet Witch could simply re write reality where either the Phoenix Force doesn't exist, and something else takes it place as the Creator of Life, or Jean was never born, or no one was even made to be host for the Phoenix. She would be defeating Jean, using any of the realities. 
After rewriting reality, a simple hex bolt can knock Jean out
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Stormultt

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#26  Edited By Stormultt

Hmmm....frankly i dont care for this match mainly because they are two of my favs but i think if scarlet plays her cards right she could do a little something

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jeangreyemmafrost

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jean

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Aronmorales

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#28  Edited By Aronmorales

Hmm...I'ma going with Jean on this.

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WindCloud

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#29  Edited By WindCloud

My girl, Jean, will win.   i   honestly don't  think  Wanda's hex magic can affect cosmic beings (which the Phoenix Force is).  If Wanda's reality manipulation power is really that powerful, then she would be able to solo beings like Galactus, Stranger, the Elders, or Celestials, but  i  don't  think she can do that.  And, further more,  i  don't  think any of those beings are more powerful than the Phoenix Force.

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MrDirector786

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#30  Edited By MrDirector786

No Caption Provided

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#31  Edited By loganreme
@PrinceKelly2010 said:
"Xavier attempted to shut down her mind but wasn't successful. He only weakened her but she was still able to change reality. What I'm saying is, if he is supposed to be the most powerful telepath then why couldn't he shut down her mind. If he could surpress Jean's powers then why couldn't he surpress Wanda's.... She is stronger that's why. "

He only surpressed Jeans powers because she let him. Jean ftw :)
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#32  Edited By Tevnoba
@WindCloud said:
" My girl, Jean, will win.   i   honestly don't  think  Wanda's hex magic can affect cosmic beings (which the Phoenix Force is).  If Wanda's reality manipulation power is really that powerful, then she would be able to solo beings like Galactus, Stranger, the Elders, or Celestials, but  i  don't  think she can do that.  And, further more,  i  don't  think any of those beings are more powerful than the Phoenix Force. "
true
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#33  Edited By TheWhitePrince
@WindCloud said:
" My girl, Jean, will win.   i   honestly don't  think  Wanda's hex magic can affect cosmic beings (which the Phoenix Force is).  If Wanda's reality manipulation power is really that powerful, then she would be able to solo beings like Galactus, Stranger, the Elders, or Celestials, but  i  don't  think she can do that.  And, further more,  i  don't  think any of those beings are more powerful than the Phoenix Force. "
Beings such as Galactus, Stranger, the Elders and the Celestials, have powers far greater than the Phoenix Force, for them they require no host, and are immortal or nigh-immortal. Phoenix requires a host, since being bound tothe man who made it take the Phoenix form. It also can be killed and requires time to heal outside of reality. Its unfair to compare to two with Wanda's magic. And seeing as none of the forementioned are magical beings, its somewhat unfair to say she wouldnt last against them. Besides which none of them are Jean Grey / Phoenix. 
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TheWhitePrince

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#34  Edited By TheWhitePrince
@Phoenix of the Black Throne said:
" @TheWhitePrince said:
" @WindCloud said:
" My girl, Jean, will win.   i   honestly don't  think  Wanda's hex magic can affect cosmic beings (which the Phoenix Force is).  If Wanda's reality manipulation power is really that powerful, then she would be able to solo beings like Galactus, Stranger, the Elders, or Celestials, but  i  don't  think she can do that.  And, further more,  i  don't  think any of those beings are more powerful than the Phoenix Force. "
Beings such as Galactus, Stranger, the Elders and the Celestials, have powers far greater than the Phoenix Force, for them they require no host, and are immortal or nigh-immortal. Phoenix requires a host, since being bound tothe man who made it take the Phoenix form. It also can be killed and requires time to heal outside of reality. Its unfair to compare to two with Wanda's magic. And seeing as none of the forementioned are magical beings, its somewhat unfair to say she wouldnt last against them. Besides which none of them are Jean Grey / Phoenix.  "
Phoenix does not need a host most cosmic beings can't manifest without an M-body, Phoenix can, she uses a host or avatar because if she manifests in without them (like she can) she will doom all future life and prevent it from coming about. "
And therefore she needs a host to be its heart. None of the others do. They dont not have a the ultimatium of be free and destroy all life, or be chained and let life live. So yes, she does need a host. 
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BatDance

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#35  Edited By BatDance

Phoenix stomps

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capall

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#36  Edited By capall

jean with full power of phoenix should win here
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WeaponX510

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#37  Edited By WeaponX510

Wanda wins Magneto's kids can beat Xaviers B*tches

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Stormultt

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#38  Edited By Stormultt
@WeaponX510 said:
"Wanda wins Magneto's kids can beat Xaviers B*tches "

not.....but i do think wanda at full strength could......die harderXDD
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MKF30

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#39  Edited By MKF30

Jean
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spekqj

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#40  Edited By spekqj
@TheWhitePrince said:
" @WindCloud said:
" My girl, Jean, will win.   i   honestly don't  think  Wanda's hex magic can affect cosmic beings (which the Phoenix Force is).  If Wanda's reality manipulation power is really that powerful, then she would be able to solo beings like Galactus, Stranger, the Elders, or Celestials, but  i  don't  think she can do that.  And, further more,  i  don't  think any of those beings are more powerful than the Phoenix Force. "
Beings such as Galactus, Stranger, the Elders and the Celestials, have powers far greater than the Phoenix Force, for them they require no host, and are immortal or nigh-immortal. Phoenix requires a host, since being bound tothe man who made it take the Phoenix form. It also can be killed and requires time to heal outside of reality. Its unfair to compare to two with Wanda's magic. And seeing as none of the forementioned are magical beings, its somewhat unfair to say she wouldnt last against them. Besides which none of them are Jean Grey / Phoenix.  "
You can't be serious.
For Galcatus, he was defeated by even a weakened green phoenix. 
And stragner? He wanted phoenix power to be the most powerful being in the universe. 
Celstials' hand was cut by even Jean's power with some help from X-men. I can't see how Jean as phoenix, which is far powerful than Jean's raw power and bunch of x-men, cant' take Celestials. 
 
Anyways Jean without phoenix would not win against HoM Wanda, but with phownix, Jean would curbstomp HoM wada.
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proteusaskanison

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#41  Edited By proteusaskanison

Jean is life incarnate... 
child of the universe... 
yada yada yada... 
 
She held the universe in her HANDS... there is little little maximoff can do... she is immune to reality manipulation... if she wasnt, the phoenix would have been affected by M day... 
 
AND WE ALL KNOW SHE WASNT 
 
the phoenix is THE OLDEST entity in the universe... some chick with mental problems and a shotgun of power cant match the phoenix's Big bang

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psyche95

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#42  Edited By psyche95

I believe if Jean Grey didn't have the Phoenix Force, Scarlet Witch would most likely win.

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#43  Edited By Mercy_
@psyche95: But Jean Grey does have the PF.  
 
In fact, the OP says full power, which means White Phoenix of the Throne.  
 
Jean wins, indubitably.
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#44  Edited By charlieboy

jean most definitely wins.
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#45  Edited By Mercy_
@HOUSEOFSCARLETWITCH: I won't deny that HoM Wanda is powerful, but the huge problem with using her is that she didn't have full control over her powers and people seem to misinterpret what the Chaos Wave was. It was not under her control, it was merely an effect of her powers. I'm not going into that whole thing right now, though. xP The thing about Phoenix is that she is immune to reality manipulation, so even if Wanda was able to fully control her powers, it wouldn't really matter.  
 
A agree with that.
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xmenfallen

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#46  Edited By xmenfallen

phoenix wins even though wanda can warp reality phoenix is more powerful
 
wanda isnt fast enough to draw a hex phoenix is really fast
 
but both gals are pretty tough wanda is a very powerful and unpredictable character but phoenix still reigns supreme

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Mr. Mercury

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#47  Edited By Mr. Mercury

Jean Grey wins
 
That trick Scarlet witch had mental problems and her powers went out of control, House of M was more of an excuse for Marvel to get rid of irrelevant characters. Realize this, if you are screwed in the head, you will do some "WTF" stuff. Jean Grey hasn't even gotten to crazy bitch status, I don't count her Phoenix hosting.

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Mr. Mercury

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#48  Edited By Mr. Mercury
@HOUSEOFSCARLETWITCH:  Jean Grey wins, you agree right?  Where's the problem at then bro?
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Mr. Mercury

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#49  Edited By Mr. Mercury
@HOUSEOFSCARLETWITCH:  Ok we agree, it's settled.
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#50  Edited By silverr

 it depends on wich are we talking about, there are a lot o versions of comics, cartoons, where they both are differents, like in the old times Jean was not the phoenix, she only became a temporary host to it, and she was very weak in tk, the phoenix was limited and had to rest everytime she teleported, and this , was the first, and original phoenix story, so Jean in the original, is not the always phoenix, and I trust in the original story, so for me wanda would win.
If we're talking about the new ones , where Jean is already born with the phoenix, and her tk is already stonger, so Jean could win, but some people do overestimate Jean, and exagerate on her capacities, I love her, and in x-men legends 1/2 , and in x-men evolution Jean is my favorite character, also in Mua 2 , and they could have done a playable Jean in the first, but I know she has limits, and is not invencible.

If we're talking about cartoons, in X-men evolution Jean was easily beaten by Wanda in the episode the Hex Factor, please, be more specific next time. ²