Scarlet Witch HOM w/ the Chaos Wave vs White Phoenix of the Crown

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lord_oraculous016

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#1  Edited By lord_oraculous016

of all the female characters in Marvel, only these two women has shown the right to be called a "GODDESS" in all its intents and purposes.. 
 

one altered reality itself beyond recognition and sent a catastrophic wave that nearly destroyed the entire Creation..

 
 
the other is

the Guardian of Creation who saved all life from eternal damnation and healed a wounded Universe out of compassion.. 

 

The Scenario:

 
During the aftermath of the House of M where the Scarlet Witch altered reality and caused the deletion of the Mutant Gene, she altered the natural law of the Evolution of Sentient Life.. The White Phoenix of the Crown, the Guadian of Creation who oversees the evolution of sentient life from a single cell organism to the dominant specie in creation (like the creation of Galactus from the humanoid named Galan), sought to undo what the Scarlet Witch has done.. with this, she sent a baby, the first mutant to be born after the catastrophic events of the HOM, the child known as the Messiah.. it is the child that will ensure that the yet unknown destiny that mutants will play in creation would take place.. the Scarlet Witch was less than happy with the actions of her majesty the Crown, denying her will.. so in rage and insanity, she takes her on in combat.. all of creation has no choice but to stand and behold the epic battle of these two "GODDESSES"..
 
the battle is on and the entire Creation is the stage of this clash of biblical proportions.. 
    
in a possible turn of events and these two has engaged in battle, whose will, will not be denied by the other? 
 

 
The Scarlet Witch

(HOM Level with the power of the Chaos Wave) 
 
 
 
 
 
against 
 
 
 
The White Phoenix of the Crown
 
 
 
 

all comment are very much welcome.. ^__^
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RiseofApocalypse

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#2  Edited By RiseofApocalypse


LMAO.

 
I love spite threads against Phoenix. 
 
The "universe" that she held was actually a visualization in her hands while she was in the  white hot room. 
She also "repaired" the universe indirectly by making Scott make the right decision. 
 
SW on the other hand directly warped Galactus(on panel), and made Eternity her bitch a bunch of times. 
 
Spite thread.

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lord_oraculous016

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#3  Edited By lord_oraculous016
@RiseofApocalypse: this is in no specific reason a Spite thread my friend.. the Phoenix has had pretty impresive feats capable of showning her power.. Necrom with theinsignificant power of the Phoenix was able to compress alternate universe into singularity, capable of destroying it.. the Phoenix was able to humble Galactus twice, and Eternity himself expressed fear from the power of the Phoenix.. even the living Tribunal attest to the power of the Phoenix capable of destroying the Multivers.. and IIRC, the white Hot room is the only place in Creation safe from the Chaos Wave..
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#4  Edited By RiseofApocalypse
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#5  Edited By lord_oraculous016
@RiseofApocalypse: the Dark Phoenix has threaten to detroy eternity before.. and has humbled Galactus twice..
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RiseofApocalypse

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#6  Edited By RiseofApocalypse
@lord_oraculous016:
No. She never was a threat to Eternity. 
 
Galactus never met Dark Phoenix. It was a STARVING Galactus with Rachel Grey as Phoenix. Galactus lost only ONCE. Every single other time they met, Phoenix submitted to Galactus.
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RiseofApocalypse

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#7  Edited By RiseofApocalypse
@lord_oraculous016 said:
"@RiseofApocalypse: this is in no specific reason a Spite thread my friend.. the Phoenix has had pretty impresive feats capable of showning her power.. Necrom with theinsignificant power of the Phoenix was able to compress alternate universe into singularity, capable of destroying it.. the Phoenix was able to humble Galactus twice, and Eternity himself expressed fear from the power of the Phoenix.. even the living Tribunal attest to the power of the Phoenix capable of destroying the Multivers.. and IIRC, the white Hot room is the only place in Creation safe from the Chaos Wave.. "

Necrom only destroyed a single solar system... 
Once. Also, look at my above post. 
Eternity never expressed fear for Phoenix. It was Death that told her she was one of the greatest powers of the universe. Along with Galactus and herself. 
LT only ordered her around. He never said anything like that. 
IDK about your last statement.
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#8  Edited By lord_oraculous016
@RiseofApocalypse: During the Dark Phoenix Saga, the Dark Phoenix was said capable of destroying "All that Is".. yes he was starving.. as Galactus' powers decreses while hers are not.. Rachel is nowhere near the level of Jean.. Jean was able to drive Galactus of, even with the remnant powers of the Phoenix (she even had a lobectomy).. Galactus stated that even then, her powers rival his own and even asked her to be his new herald.. Jean (even with the power she had then) said that she may call him his equal but never her master.. the tribunal attest to the power of the Phoenix capable of destroying the Multiverse, as Eternity himself is the Universe, she is way capable to destroying countless numbers of him.. the Phoenix never submitted to Galactus, she did once to save her friends, but galactus got a whole lot more than he bargain for.. for he knew that without the Phoenix, even himself is nothing..
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lord_oraculous016

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Phoenix won the war between power but lost the battle of morality so she choose not to meddle with his affairs..
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GamorasBigDaddy

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#11  Edited By GamorasBigDaddy


This is a BATTLE INDEED! 
 
2 of Top 3 Ultimate Powers in Marvel sort of TOAA going at it here....Top OmniversalPowers...

 

Either could win it...It's really too close to call...

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geraldthesloth

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#12  Edited By geraldthesloth

Not touching this thread..

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#13  Edited By RiseofApocalypse

@lord_oraculous016: 
Phoenix won once, lost 2 times and the other time it was a stalemate. 

@lord_oraculous016:
Nah, Eternity is atleast multi-versal. 
 
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/721892/etpf1.jpg.html 
   

 
All in all, Phoenix is JUST hyperbole, she has next to no impressive feats in Galactus' league(in BCA Galactus was eating the omniverse, in last planet standing(not canon to Galactus, but canon to the LT) Galactus WTFpwned the LT and made him interfere, also in Abraxas saga the Ultimate Nullifier erased the Phoenix force) 
 
But anyways, i'm not going to spam your thread. 
 
HoM Scarlet Wtich stomps.

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lord_oraculous016

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@RiseofApocalypse said:
"@lord_oraculous016 said:
"@RiseofApocalypse: this is in no specific reason a Spite thread my friend.. the Phoenix has had pretty impresive feats capable of showning her power.. Necrom with theinsignificant power of the Phoenix was able to compress alternate universe into singularity, capable of destroying it.. the Phoenix was able to humble Galactus twice, and Eternity himself expressed fear from the power of the Phoenix.. even the living Tribunal attest to the power of the Phoenix capable of destroying the Multivers.. and IIRC, the white Hot room is the only place in Creation safe from the Chaos Wave.. "
Necrom only destroyed a single solar system... Once. Also, look at my above post. Eternity never expressed fear for Phoenix. It was Death that told her she was one of the greatest powers of the universe. Along with Galactus and herself. LT only ordered her around. He never said anything like that. IDK about your last statement. "

Necrom with the insignificant power of the Phoenix compresses alternate universes into singularity, threaten to destroy the Multivers itself.. 

 
 


 
 

it is clear that the Tribunal did'nt order the Phoenix around.. the two conversed in a language without words.. the Phoenix just compromised becasue it and the tribunal know that in wielded by a incapable host, the Power of the Phoenix can destroy the Multiverse itself..
 
 
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lord_oraculous016

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@GamorasBigDaddy: thanks.. it would be a really awesome battle indeed..
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#16  Edited By Neon_Nemesis
@lord_oraculous016: Ok I read the first 2 scans about 5 times now, where did it say he would destroy the multiverse itself?  He said "watch as I compress the multiverse of alternate earths into a singularity" 
 
Nothing about destroying the multiverse
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#17  Edited By GamorasBigDaddy
@lord_oraculous016 said:
"@GamorasBigDaddy: thanks.. it would be a really awesome battle indeed.. "


yea it would... 

Also I never even seen that necrom feat before. That's sweet. Thanks for that... 
He also has another Multiversal warpfeat where he created them towers throughout the Multiverse or something like that, i forget exactly...

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RiseofApocalypse

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#18  Edited By RiseofApocalypse


Phoenix defeated Necrom BARELY...only a SOLAR SYSTEM was destroyed. 

Even new gods of New Genesis can create dimensions. Average new gods are NOTHING to Darkseid, and Darkseid is NOTHING to Galactus.

 
 

 

 
 
 

 
 
 

 
 
 
 
 

 

When Galactus fought the Tyrant entire GALAXIES were decimated. When Galactus fought Mephisto, the entire UNIVERSE would have perished. 
 
As for the LT scan, it was outright stated that the Tribunal would not allow Phoenix to take a human host. As for the multi-verse, it meant that the force itself would die in turn of the host dying, thus the multi-verse collapsing(like when Galactus "died" and Abraxas came out and did random crap).

 

 

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lord_oraculous016

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@Neon_Nemesis: oh, hi.. it's you again my friend.. compressing the alternate universes is a vague way and description of its utter destruction.. it's like stuffing anything you can imagine of infinite numbers into a small and limited space.. like in the theory of the big bang where atoms and energy are compressed unitl something gives in.. causing an explosion of epic proportions..
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#21  Edited By Neon_Nemesis
@lord_oraculous016 said:
" @Neon_Nemesis: oh, hi.. it's you again my friend.. compressing the alternate universes is a vague way and description of its utter destruction.. it's like stuffing anything you can imagine of infinite numbers into a small and limited space.. like in the theory of the big bang where atoms and energy are compressed unitl something gives in.. causing an explosion of epic proportions.. "
He also said the multiverse of alternate earths, not alternate universes
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lord_oraculous016

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@RiseofApocalypse: i beg to disagree.. what Necrom used is not his power but the Anti-Phoenix he got when Feron first sought the aid of the Phoenix of align the tower across the Multiverse.. and the Phoenix can never die.. it resurrects itself.. it is the resurrection force of creation.. ensuring Creation after Destruction.. even if a host dies, the Phoenix does not,, remebr that the force was born in the void states of being.. hers is the flame the gave light unto the infinite darkness in that wondrous transcent act known as Creation.. it was clearly stated that no host can safe contain the force.. and one does succumb to the power, he/she could destroy the Multiiverse.. like what was said during the Dark Phoenix Saga, "When the Dark Phoenix rises, Stars grow cold and Universes die"..
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lord_oraculous016

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@Neon_Nemesis: it is a vague description of the Multiverse.. like in DC's Crisis on Infinite Earths.. that battle included infinite Universes yet it was said Infinite Earths right? do correct me if i'm wrong dude..
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#24  Edited By Neon_Nemesis
@lord_oraculous016 said:
" @Neon_Nemesis: it is a vague description of the Multiverse.. like in DC's Crisis on Infinite Earths.. that battle included infinite Universes yet it was said Infinite Earths right? do correct me if i'm wrong dude.. "
That is different, Crisis on IE, the multiverse was actually destroyed, in your scan it simply says alternate earths into one singularty
 
It is very vague and unfortunetly doesn't help the argument for WCP very much
 
[note I never said who I think would win this fight, because quite frankly both are highly overrated]
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@GamorasBigDaddy: ah, maybe you are referring to this feat.. 
 

 
 
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@Neon_Nemesis: i know what you mean my friend.. what i want to convey is that they practically have the same meaning.. you see sometime they use Eart rather than universes.. like in marvel, the prime Universe is Earth 616, and in DC they have like Earth One right? like what both ttile conveyed, they use the ininite earths title when they clearly meant Universes..
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#27  Edited By RiseofApocalypse

@lord_oraculous016: 
Correct. 
@lord_oraculous016:
It doesn't matter. In the BCA Galactus was eating ALL reality. The Ultimate Nullifier erased her from existence at the end of the Abraxas saga, 
Actual showing > narrative showing >>>>>>>> hyperbole 
Also, Galactus can't die either. He was supposedly killed by Magus in the Infinity Saga...but he willed himself back to existence, even though Death DIDN'T want him to resurface.  Also, during Galactus the devourer story when Galactus was "killed"....he wasn't. He was turned into a star that would burn for all Eternity within the heart of Eternity. 
 
In the Last Galactus Story, it was said that after Galactus "dies" he would then become the new big bang and RECREATE entire universeS. 
 
Phoenix's feats are ALL hyperbole. She has no comparable feats. Also, did you look at the scan I posted of Eternity? That should tell you all you need to know. 
 
Galactus = Eternity > Phoenix

 

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@RiseofApocalypse: well thanks.. and yah, i've read about that with regards about Galactus.. if by that, you mean this??? 

 
 


but remember, the Phoenix is the Resurrection Force behind Creation.. as the White Hot Room is the Heart of Creation.. and the only place safe from the powers of the chaos wave 
 

 
 
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#29  Edited By RiseofApocalypse


Yea, Phoenix is alot older than Galactus. Oblivion is also older than Galactus(on panel it was stated that Oblivion pre-dates the multi-verse). Eternity and Infinity are too.

 

Galactus I think is the youngest of the abstracts after Seven Friendless/Abraxas/Order/Chaos/Love/Hate/In-Betweener.

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@RiseofApocalypse: yea.. and all is tied in what known as the wonders of Creation.. i like Marvel cosmics beacuse each of them are connected to another.. very interesting..
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#31  Edited By Goenitz
@GamorasBigDaddy said:
"


This is a BATTLE INDEED! 
 
2 of Top 3 Ultimate Powers in Marvel sort of TOAA going at it here....Top OmniversalPowers...

 

Either could win it...It's really too close to call...

"
Agreed
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#32  Edited By Lance Uppercut

BCA isn't canon. I don't know why it's being submitted as "evidence". 
 
And no, Wanda isn't in the top 3 cosmics. I don't know why anyone would make such a silly statement, though given who said it, probably because he/she/it ate paint chips as a kid.
 
And no, the White Hot Room isn't safe from the chaos wave. If Jamie Braddock can warp it, any good reality warper can. The only place immune to any sort of reality warping is unspace. No reality to warp, so the chaos wave would have no effect.

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Scarlet witch's power may not even work on a cosmic level entity.

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@Lance Uppercut: yes, the White Hot Room is the only place in creation safe from the catastrophe which is the Chaos Wave.. it is the very reason why Jean gave Rachel the Holempathic Crystal that she wore in her neck, to save her from such power.. 
 
and Jamie did not warp the White Hot Room.. he just pulled Rachel and Psylocke from it.. it don't even think it is the real White Hot Room.. it was just Rachel's blind guess.. it was probably a pocket dimension of sort created by Jean to protect her daughter.. and it was quite absurd that Psylocke herself, who was made immune to reality warping (courtesy by her brother Jamie) was obviously affected by the reality warp that created the world where she and Rachel were transported to.. Jamie even needed to "pull strings"with the aid of Rachel's Holempathic Crystal, using it as a link to pull them out from that reality..
 

No Caption Provided


No Caption Provided


No Caption Provided

either was it the real White Hot room or not (as the White Hot Room shown in HCT was very much different from the one shown above.. and the very fact that one must die first before ascending to the White Hot Room), it was the only place safe from the powers of the Scarlet Witch, as Jean originally intended to keep her daughter safe..
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#35  Edited By Lance Uppercut
@lord_oraculous016: 1. You still haven't proven that the WHR is immune to reality manipulation. The scans you posted show nothing of the sort.
2. The scans you showed also didn't indicate that he needed to use the crystal to pull them out. He simply
3. And yeah, he did warp it. Seeing as how he created a breach in to it. You can see him grabbing portions of it too in the last scan before he draws them out.
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@Lance Uppercut: 
 
1. it is arguable since the realm where Rachel and Psylocke where was not even sure to be the White Hot Room.. it could be and it could be not, or it could be both.. as the said realm was derived from Rachel's crystal, one can speculate that ii is not the real White Hot Room.. since Jean nor any Phoenix avatars were shown which is very unlikely since the WHR is the realm of the Phoenix..
2. Jamie needed the Crystal to locate the girls and returned whatever realm is was to the Crystal.. he didn't warp it.. it was never even mentioned that he warped it.. Jamie doesn't even know what the WHR is.. much more going into it..
3. he held it with his fingers and looks as it returns to the crystal on Rachel's neck.. Jamie is indirectly powered by the First Fallen, whom is said to be the counterpart of the Phoenix.. yet even its powers were not capable to judgment of the Phoenix..
 
and why may i ask was Betsy, even with Jamie's alteration, was profoundly affected by the Real they were transported into.. does that mean, Jamie's power is not absolute???
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#37  Edited By Lance Uppercut
@lord_oraculous016: 
 
1. The WHR seems open to a lot of interpretation by the occupants.
2. Of course he warped it. That's his power. Reality Warping. That's how he does what he does. Whenever he uses his powers, it's warping reality. That's why it wasn't 'mentioned', it's a given. 
3. It looks like he pulled on it. 
 Of course Jamies powers aren't absolute. The only one who's powers are absolute in Marvel is TOAA. The only second runner is the LT.
 
O
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@Lance Uppercut: true.. the White Hot Room is very complicated.. some say it's the Afterlife, the other the Heart of Creation.. no one can probably understand what it really is except Jean herself.. but the fact till remains that Jean gave Rachel the Holempathic Crystal for the sole purpose of protecting her from such catastrophe as the Chaos Wave,, plus the fact that Jean did not appear during the House of M.. which is quite absurd since Wanda gave everyone what they truly wish yet Cyclops was not with Jean whom is his one true love.. this proves even Wanda with all her powers cannot resurrect Jean Grey since Jean is inside the true WHR..
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#39  Edited By Lance Uppercut
@lord_oraculous016: Once again, you've given no indication that the crystal protects her from reality warping abilities, nor that the WHR is immune. And in HoM, Scott did in fact get his one true wish. It wasn't being with Jean, obviously or it likely would have been so. It's not as though the illusion couldn't have been created had that been what he truly wished for. So it proves nothing.
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lord_oraculous016

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@Lance Uppercut: if Jamie truly warp the WHR, then what did he warped it into? the very fact that the WHR still exist at this very moment with Jean as the WPOTC residing in it proved that he really did not warped it.. i never really see any form of warping inside that realm.. Rachel and betsy showed an even greater feat than Jaime while inside that realm.. like when at first they see nothing but white light and the next thing they can see alternate versions of themselves.. all what Jamie did was teleport them back to the native reality.. what i know about reality warping is that one changes the aspect of his environment, his reality.. they entered a realm where reality is a blank page.. again, Jamie did not changed nor altered the reality they where in.. he teleported the girls back and the realm returned to the Crystal in Rachel's neck..
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#41  Edited By Lance Uppercut
@lord_oraculous016: He created a portal in to the WHR, thus warping the location as something enter-able. Of course Betsy and Rachel had betters feats inside. Jamie was there for a page before he plucked them out, seemingly against their will. So yes, he did in fact change the WHR when he entered it. You posted scans of this.
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lord_oraculous016

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@Lance Uppercut: yes i did.. but it never claimed he warped the WHR.. plus the fact that his alteration of Betsy was less than nothing when she inside that realm means he is probably less than powerful in there.. plus the real White Hot Room can only accessed through the M'Krann Crystal.. what Rachel has was probably a miniature version of it.. plus i wouldn'nt think that the WPOTC would let Jamie do such thing to her domain without her consent..
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#43  Edited By RiseofApocalypse


Jamie did indeed warp the White Hot Room. 

And Phoenix can't win here. I would be generous to give her a win over Galactus, let alone Wanda who effortlesly tossed Galactus around in one panel.

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@RiseofApocalypse: was it a full powered Galactus my friend?
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#45  Edited By RiseofApocalypse
@lord_oraculous016:
No. But that is a feat that Phoenix would never be able to replicate. I mean, yea WPTOC can defeat a hungry Galactus but never that effortlesly.
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lord_oraculous016

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@RiseofApocalypse: can you please kindly post some scans?
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#47  Edited By RiseofApocalypse
@lord_oraculous016:
Well, sadly I don't have it. It was only one page that showed Galactus along with a bunch of other heroes being sucked into a black-holish sort of thing. Only Galactus' purple boots were visible though
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Lance Bastro

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#48  Edited By Lance Bastro

ultra phoenix wins.

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GamorasBigDaddy

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#49  Edited By GamorasBigDaddy

Jamie did'nt warp the WHR at all... 
 
Pertty obvious from scans
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spekqj

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#50  Edited By spekqj

After reading the second coming, I think WPOTC could win in this fight. Jean is the one who undo the spell that Wanda created.