Savage vs Plo Koon (no distractions)

I agree with the above that Plo is slightly better than him, if only a little bit.

1) He's more powerful

2) He's - demonstrably - more skilled, as seen in their fight

3) He isn't fazed by Savage's strength - tanking a kick to the face with no problems

4) He was distracted in their battle, which lead to his loss

I believe the opinions of the experts are needed here, a mere peasant such as I makes for an untrustworthy judge

Plo is better in everything bar dueling, strenghth, power in the force durability, strength - oh wait.

Teh pruff is in teh puddin

Plo Koon 8-9/10. Hes superior in most ways specially durability in my opinion.

Yeah Plo has got this one. Him getting his ass handed to him by Savage while he had clones helping him is clear proof of that.

Surely that's the one thing Plo isn't superior in. Could you explain why?

Probably Savage in a good fight.

I guess i was thinking more of his telekinetic powers being revered, still he is a great fighter. So extremely poor word choice on my part. Whats his lightsaber form? Isnt it Djem So. I dont have anything with me on stupid mobile while I await new pc.

RIP Star Wars debating.

Man, ILS, turn that frown upside down.

@life_without_progress: Someone tell that to Plo:

His frown isn't even attached to his face anymore.

Clear proof that plo was distracted. The anguish felt from loosing a comerade caused a lapse in his enhanced force senses. He might as well have been a non force user at that point.

Lmao

Plo Koon was obviously pre-prime and was still able to injure Oppres's legs. Common sense tells us almost a year of frequent combat would turn Koon into a Maul++ Kenobi level combatant.

Plo koon would win but just slightly, although i think savage is more Raw power within the force and strength and durability wise, plo has the skills in combat, master of the force more than savage that plo koon will strategize and find an opening.

- Answer: kill their allies, or place them in jeopardy. Many Jedi will leave themselves exposed in order to protect another.

HK-47, Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords

Yes, Opress has done his homework. That doesn't put him above Plo in any capacity.

Plo wins. He's better.

@the_wspanialy: Out of sheer curiosity, how is Plo better?

So, assuming that you just drop them in a gladiator arena and let them go at it? Plo Koon. Even TPM Maul respected Koon's skills, associating him with Mace Windu at that time. I imagine that if Koon isn't a Low 8, he's a VERY High 7. I have Savage as a Mid 7, along with Ventress. He's prone to bursts of Force rage that enable him to break through a much superior opponents Force barrier, so he does have a chance at defeating Koon in that manner.

That's literally what happened, and Plo lost. LMAO.

This is the most bizarre saga of Star Wars debating I've ever seen in my 4 years on this website.

Yeah I'm gonna be real here, this is completely absurd. ILS is right on every account.

So here's what I don't get, Plo Koon is just better than Savage right? He's better, and most particularly he's more skilled and smarter as a fighter, so Plo Koon who is a better and smarter fighter than Savage comes at Savage with the aid of numerous clone troopers serving as a distraction to Savage, and while these troops are firing upon Savage Plo Koon cannot find a decisive opening to end the fight, yet all it takes is for Plo Koon to yell two words at somebody for Savage to completely down him... so I mean not only is the idea that Plo Koon is a better fighter than Savage pretty preposterous, but the idea that Plo Koon is both a better fighter and smarter fighter than Savage and managed to lose a fight with him despite heading in with an unfair advantage.

This is the same BS I've heard peddled with Shaak Ti "Oh she was better than Galen... OOOH OOOH BUT SHE'S ALSO SUPER CUNNING!" But if she was just a better overall combatant than Galen and such a master tactician she wouldn't have lost to him in a familiar environment she could literally control, and in particular she would not have flung herself on his blade in desperation.

Not to mention the fact that the side of Plo Koon's mask that Savage grabbed was the side that would've been turned completely away from Savage while Koon was yelling with Savage's arm that was further away from the side of Plo Koon's face, so Plo would've had to have turned back towards Savage before Savage ripped his mask off.

So here's what I don't get, Plo Koon is just better than Savage right? He's better, and most particularly he's more skilled and smarter as a fighter, so Plo Koon who is a better and smarter fighter than Savage comes at Savage with the aid of numerous clone troopers serving as a distraction to Savage, and while these troops are firing upon Savage Plo Koon cannot find a decisive opening to end the fight, yet all it takes is for Plo Koon to yell two words at somebody for Savage to completely down him...

Couldn't have put it better myself.

Okay gang, so of course Jedi lives matter, but this idea that Savage won due to Sith privilege is absolute nonsense. You see folks, Savage is the beneficiary of good decision making privilege, unlike Plo Koon's father, Savage's father married up and had sex with one of the most powerful women in the Galaxy in order to give Savage a better life, and Savage himself despite being basically brought up in a society that has his sex in a servant caste was able to take the personal responsibility to focus on crafting himself into a great warrior. Plo Koon was raised in the cushy Jedi temple with so much opportunity at his fingertips, and yet he spent his time getting a degree in lesbian dance theory honing his diplomatic skills which are useless in the real world when you have to fight people.

Savage got ahead in that fight because he made better life decisions, so the idea that because Plo Koon lost that fight it was due to some nebulous anti-Jediism in the ether of the galaxy is useless because we're just chasing ghosts at that point. It has nothing to do with Sith privilege and everything to do with decision-making, you explain to me why Plo Koon is disadvantaged so much by being a Jedi after a thousand years of the Jedi ruling the Galaxy? Is the Galaxy somehow less favorable to the Jedi than it was during the days where there were an equal number of Jedi and Sith, and if so how did that happen?

I want to be on your side I really do, point me to the people disadvantaging Jedi in these fights and I'll fight them with you together and say Plo should've won, but this idea that you can just say "Jedi are systemically disadvantaged in fights" and that we're all supposed to cheer for you and go home after you've offered no real solutions, you're just wasting my time.

Plo wins.

@emperordmb:

You have a point with Savage, but with Shaak Ti, that's kinda ignoring the context.

In the comic, she won the duel pretty easily and then turned her back to him, only to be cheapshotted from behind unexpectedly. One can say 'yeah but that's her fault for turning her back in a duel' the fact is that wouldn't have happened under any other circumstance.

In the book, Galen was using the Sarlacc against her just as much as she was against him, shocking it to make her lose her footing and ripping it's teeth off and firing them at her. In fact he was struggling with her a lot in the beginning and was being driven back and managed to get Shaak to let up her attack only by shocking the Saarlac and she was still displayed to be the one with the upper hand (even in the end it said she would have and should have killed him) and Galen described his win as being attributed to luck that he wasn't the one lying dead on the ground.

And she didn't fling herself onto his blade knowingly obviously. Galen had raised his blade by reflex at just the right moment and didn't even realize it, and struck her through as she was about to land the finishing blow. Again, he attributes this to a lucky shot essentially.

He backed away, shocked by how close he had come to death and how lucky he had been to defeat her. He had raised his lightsaber by reflex. She had, in the desperation of her final assault, practically thrown herself on the blade. Perhaps she had meant for the two of them to defeat each other at the same time.

In both cases, Shaak Ti was winning until Galen either got one very lucky shot in that ended the fight or managed to kill her while the fight was over and her back was turned.

Here's hoping Juicebox doesn't temp ban me for that last post I made kek

@emperordmb: What on earth was that post?

@emperor339: Me essentially parodying Ben Shapiro in the context of Plo vs Savage

I'll get back to you some other time though. i have to study today, then go to class, then trip balls with my friend.

@emperordmb: KK, no rush. I got a buttload of coursework to do as well. University is hard ;-;

Edit: Also, seeing as this is a Plo Koon thread and I'm making Shaak Ti arguments, perhaps it'd be better for me to save this discussion until after my Plo vs Shaak CaV with Kbro ;)

@i_like_swords: I've reviewed everything, and I'll change my choice. Savage wins.

I had to look up the full scan of the comic. Koon had every advantage and didn't seal the deal. Savage wins.

Took me two days to find the whole thing to read it again but yea Id be inclined to change my vote.(Just getting back into Star Wars again after about a year...been playing too many video games lately.) Thats what I get for jumpimg to conclusions but...if all battles are supposed to be out of 10 I still feel Plo could take a couple rounds.

So basically it took 3 excellent debaters (ILS, EmperorDMB and Haggis) to bring a shred of sanity back to SW debating...... *sigh*

@emperordmb:

So here's what I don't get, Plo Koon is just better than Savage right? He's better, and most particularly he's more skilled and smarter as a fighter, so Plo Koon who is a better and smarter fighter than Savage comes at Savage with the aid of numerous clone troopers serving as a distraction to Savage, and while these troops are firing upon Savage Plo Koon cannot find a decisive opening to end the fight, yet all it takes is for Plo Koon to yell two words at somebody for Savage to completely down him...

This notion that your ability to cheapshot someone means sh!t in a battle where there aren't external influences is asinine and can so easily arrive you at asinine conclusions when applied to other examples in the lore.

For the record, not being able to immediately decapitate your opponent when you have a momentary advantage doesn't mean you can't do it eventually after a sustained bout. Hence why Plo Koon is able to injure Oppress's leg without external aid despite failing to do so when provided external aid.

Oppress wins because he'd already knocked Koon down and Plo Koon wasn't actually distracted, not because of how sh!t that isn't applicable to a default forum battle should be applied to a default battle forum.

Plo would win.

Does Plo still win via his showing of loosing ?

I'd say yes

You're asking if Clone troopers were a distraction FOR PLO KOON ?

Ben Kenobi surrenders when the Storm Troopers arrived and butt into the Vader vs. Kenobi duel, is this a coincidence? I think not.

Ventress retreats when the Clone Troopers arrived and butt into the Anakin vs. Ventress duel, is this a coincidence? I think not.

Ahsoka retreats when the Storm Troopers arrived and butt into the Ahsoka vs. Seventh Sister & Fifth Brother duel, is this a coincidence? I think not.

And there are people actually believes that the Clone troopers could've been a distraction for Plo Koon, not for Savage Opress. Unbelievable.

^ The others weren't aware that the army of the enemy could be used to their advantage, which lead them to - mistakingly - flee the battlefield.

In spite of the canon lore, plo wins. In good faith.

Plo could win, just because Savage beat him in that manner once doesn't mean he'll do it everytime. If Plo can injure him, he can kill him.

That said complaints about Plo being "distracted" are petty seeing how the trooper Plo was warning was litteraly right behind Savage; no reason for Plo not to see Savage's attack coming. The reason his head is turned is because Savage kicked him there; not because he's facing the trooper behind Savage. Savage's victory was legit. Either could take it.

Obviously Plo stomps, which is why he decisively lost when the two actually fought. Just like how Obi Wan obviously beats Dooku, Qui Gon spanks Darth Maul, and Yoda powns Sidious.

Right?

Clone troopers firing at Savage when his back is turned are obviously a hindrance for Koon.

Can this get any dumber? Plo gets his ass kicked lmfao

I think Plo is good enough to win a few times, but Savage definitely takes a majority.

People are completely misinterpreting the comic. Plo is yelling "look out" because he's right behind Savage who the trooper is aiming at and could easily be caught in the crossfire. We saw this in Labyrinth of Evil where the droids stopped firing at Pablo and Sageon for fear of hitting Grievous.

In fact that's exactly what happened because the clone completely missed Savage and Plo was saved because Savage accidentally blocked the bolt despite still facing Plo. Who was, incidentally, in the middle of taking off Savage's leg but paused to warn the trooper. Savage's blade was in a downward arc towards where Plo's blade would have passed in its trajectory to hit Savage's leg, but clearly Savage was too late.

So in reality, Savage was losing the duel. Plo tagged him with a slash early on which is a more impressive breach of guard than Savage landing a kick. Then Plo strikes at his leg, Savage fails to prevent this and is about to lose when a clone interferes and fires at them, endangering Plo who pauses and warns the trooper. Savage takes advantage of this opening and wins.

Plo was already winning, he wins this time too. This is of course, ignoring the fact that Savage in reality would get stomped due to having less lightsaber training than a Jedi toddler.

I agree, I also think Koon could have hit Savage's leg which would result in Jedi's victory.

but that's not a fact...

I think Plo Koon has more chances, I'm not sure.