Savage Hulk vs Hyperion

Hyperion DID NOT TURN HULK BACK INTO BANNER.

From Context Files: Hulk vol 2 by GhostRavage

Hulk forced to Banner by Hyperion

One of the few instance which don't posses that much context and is most of times misinterpreted because people don't pay much attention to the situation as a whole, say, they don't look at the big picture. Often the instance is showcased by posting these 2 scans from Hickman's Avengers #3 without the context behind...

So by the first look, Hulk is seemingly hit so hard by Hyperion he turns back to Banner. However, that an improbable possibility when the context is brought to light... Let's approach it shall we?

In Avengers #1 Hulk was Mind Controlled by Abyss , Ex-Nihilo's half part, which ended in her controlling him all the way to Avengers #3... The fact that even Hulk's purposes were being controlled by her means Hulk didn't even have his own reasons to be mad nor to fight. Which then brings us back to the scans posted previously.

The moment Thor freed himself and launched a huge lightning on Abyss she explicitly states "I've lost him" while possibly looking at Hulk. At the same moment Hyperion hits him and Banner appears inside a crater later on. Without the context it's understandable to think Hyperion knock Hulk down with a punch, but with it it's pretty obvious Hulk turned back to Banner because Banner had no idea why he was fighting anymore, he didn't have any reasons to be mad, let alone fight against his friend and the moment Abyss lost control over him, he instantly turned into Banner.

So no, Hulk went down that way because of the reasons stated above, not because Hyperion knocked him back to Banner.

~GhostRavage

@emperorera7:

Hyperion was beating them until he paid attention to Spider-Man. Throwing, punching and crushing him isn`t good feat, it didn`t even hurt him. Thor giving him pain is not anti-feat , Thor was able to hurt Mikaboshi with his lightning bolt. His HV is FTL so does it means Cap has FTL reactions ? no. He failed to blitz Captain America due to plot armor. Hyperion could have killed CA in seconds but killing symbolic character like Steve in insignificant event is unacceptable for Marvel.His heat vision hurted Hulk and knocked him back which is more impressive than taking man and crushing him into ground without any effect.

Tell me exactly where he was beating them, I genuinely want to know where you think he was beating them. Because if you're arguing that Hyperion is a teambuster capable of soloing the Avengers, then you're painting an unrealistic and incorrect vision of Hyperion. Throwing, punching and hurting him with lightning indicates that Hyperion wasn't beating them despite your insistence to the contrary. And not only did Thor not hurt Mikaboshi with lightning (it just went through Chaos King's body) but how can you prove Thor was using that same level of lightning on Hyperion? One is a cosmic level threat to the multiverse, the other is at best planetary by lifting strength, not striking strength. Hyperion only has one instance of heat vision being FTL but even granting that, you claiming Hyperion failing to blitz Cap as plot armour yet insisting he was beating the Avengers is valid only shows the hypocrisy of your point. And Post Core Breach Hulk has tanked heat from quantum moulders that Ultron used to mold his adamantium armour means Hyperion's heat vision wouldn't hurt him in a battle forum fight without plot.

Even though I`m misinformated and it wasn`t moving at FTL speeds it`s still impressive lifting feat. Moving tectonic plates is planetary level feat (Even if that planet was massively bigger than earth) while Hyperion literally holded two planets from collapsing and survived it which places his durability and strength at multi-planetary level.

I forgot to mention that this was Pre Core Breach Hulk who was weakened at the time when he moved Sakaar's tectonic plates so a weakened Pre Core Breach Hulk has a feat which easily matches Hyperion's rogue planet feat. Hyperion holding two planets apart is an outlier as is him surviving an incursion because he has been consistently hurt and KOed by less force. Jim Hammond, Namor, Chitauri energy blasts, microscopic worms and electricity from a toaster amongst others have hurt or KOed Hyperion. Does that mean they have planetary level power? Obviously not, so Hyperion's striking strength and durability are obviously not at planetary level consistently. His lifting strength is planetary but he can't punch with planetary force.

Ignoring Hyperion`s feat where he forces Hulk to turn into Banner isn`t permissible idea. We have no statements or writer`s words where it proves fact that Hulk wasn`t enraged after Abyss lost control of him. I willn`t take this theorizing unless someone confirms or gives me scan of it.

See OriginalOne's quotation of GhostRavage debunking Hyperion turning Hulk back to Banner. It's a near perfect refutation of that argument. Hickman himself has confirmed this as well.

Hyperion's showings are all over the place. Using outlier feats, Hyperion smashes. Using more of the norm, Hulk should win.

Hulk destroys the Superman knockoff.

Hulk wrecks.

Hickman's Hyperion is such a wasted character.

@ginman333: what outlier feats are proving he can beat Hulk?

Holding apart two colliding universes for a period of time and surviving the ensuing destruction.

@ginman333: he didn’t hold apart the universes, he just held apart two planets and failed at that. Only the two earths were materialised. Him surviving was probably more to do with him being at the epicentre of the event than it was anything else because even abstract entities were killed by universal incursions.

Incursions are when two universes collapse on each other. The earth just happens to be the epicenter.

Total speculation on why he survived. What we do know is that there were "cascading energies collapsing two entire universes."

@king_stranglehold_da_first: How so ? He waa great during the lead up to SW

Looking at all of their feats, objectively Hyperion should win more times than not. It won't be easy but I see hulk going down before Hyperion

@kgb725:

And then look at what happened after.

Hulk stomps hard.

Hulk.

Yes the 2 universes were colliding but Hyperion wasn't stopping the 2 universes from colliding but the 2 planets in those universes, it's not possible for Hyperion to even grab a hold physically of 2 universes. Even if we take the feat as that, Hickman himself has confirmed Hulk is stronger.

@ginman333 said:

That's completely oversimplifying what actually happens in the incursion, it was explained pretty clearly in New Avengers #2...

There's really no evidence to claim he held apart two universes so much as two Earths as Reed specifically states that two "Earths begin to collide". This would actually be consistent with his levels of strength under Hickman given that he caught an Earth sized planet moving at high speed as well with some difficulty...

I really don't believe that Hyperion was intended to have survived the destruction of two universes because he was durable; under Hickman alone he got his ass kicked by Pod along with a team of Avengers, Hulk drew blood from him in his first ever fight and Hickman has outright stated that Hulk is stronger than him.

@thedailybagel:

When Hickman stated it ?

I want to bump this as it kinda died mid-argument.

I'm all for Hyperion winning this.

Keep in mind he didn't fail to hold the worlds apart, he did so long enough that every other inhabitant of both had died and it was the energies that were beyond his control that caused the collapse.

Hyperion wins this easily.

Hulk

Hulk stomps, he is multi-planetary in terms of durability.

Hulk curbstomps.

Hulk loses bigtime, Hyperion already beat hulk to the point where the hulk reverted back to Bruce Banner.

After Abyss loses control of Hulk, like Hulkbuster vs. Hulk in AoU, Hyperion turns him back into banner in one hit.

Hyperion curbstomps

He tough

He strong

He can fly

He shoot laser death from eyes

Hulk tough

Hulk strong

The only way this is a fight is if Hyperion forgets all his advantages

Nobody is stomping. Hulk wins after a long battle.

@final_kaoss: This is false

Hulk forced to Banner by Hyperion

One of the few instance which don't posses that much context and is most of times misinterpreted because people don't pay much attention to the situation as a whole, say, they don't look at the big picture. Often the instance is showcased by posting these 2 scans from Hickman's Avengers #3 without the context behind...

So by the first look, Hulk is seemingly hit so hard by Hyperion he turns back to Banner. However, that an improbable possibility when the context is brought to light... Let's approach it shall we?

In Avengers #1 Hulk was Mind Controlled by Abyss , Ex-Nihilo's half part, which ended in her controlling him all the way to Avengers #3... The fact that even Hulk's purposes were being controlled by her means Hulk didn't even have his own reasons to be mad nor to fight. Which then brings us back to the scans posted previously.

The moment Thor freed himself and launched a huge lightning on Abyss she explicitly states "I've lost him" while possibly looking at Hulk. At the same moment Hyperion hits him and Banner appears inside a crater later on. Without the context it's understandable to think Hyperion knock Hulk down with a punch, but with it it's pretty obvious Hulk turned back to Banner because Banner had no idea why he was fighting anymore, he didn't have any reasons to be mad, let alone fight against his friend and the moment Abyss lost control over him, he instantly turned into Banner.

So no, Hulk went down that way because of the reasons stated above, not because Hyperion knocked him back to Banner.

~GhostRavage

Oh and if that explanation isn't enough the writer already himself confirmed that Hulk reverted to Banner because Abyss lost control

Case closed.

OT: Hulk beats the crap out of Hyperion.

Well hypreion may have a chance

Huh who I am kidding hulk stomps

Hyperion wins

@intothevoid: I see a lot of people posting this failing to realize that he was still Hulk when Hyperion hit him. Just losing mind control did not revert him back to Banner. I'm going to state outright that this scene is up to interpretation. The way I view is that having lost mind control Hulk was in a state of confusion at the time Hyperion hit him, thus leaving him unready for the type of hit he received. Because he was not ready for it it was too much and reverted him back to Banner.

Hulk smashes his cod piece then his head.

Hulk wins.

Yes it did, the writer himself literally says so, what is there even more to argue? Abyss losing control is what snapped Hulk out of it, where he lost the reason to fight at all and reverted back to Banner.

The fallacy of Hyperion reverting Hulk to Banner is not only debunked by the writer himself as i posted above but the fact that IF Hyperion hit Hulk hard enough to revert him to Banner, Banner would have also been knocked out or at least dazed, you can't knock out Hulk and then have Banner remain conscious standing in a fighting stance, it doesn't work like that.

So then why was Hulk still Hulk when Hype punched him? Why wasn't it Banner getting his head punched off? In a fighting stance? Look at the above scans he is literally sitting because he got knocked over..... We could sit here all day and argue but I would wager most people would agree with me that it is up to interpretation. When has Hulk ever reverted back to Banner simply by someone losing mind control over him? I'm simply stating the writer saying Abyss lost control could also easily be interpreted as making the Hulk weaker due to not being ready for the punch. It essentially turns it into a sucker punch on a dazed opponent. And for the record, my interpretation is the middle ground that is fair to both characters which is what I assume the writer intended.

Because it was the exact same moment Abyss lost control over him? Nobody said he didn't get knocked over but he was fine and conscious, he wouldn't be if Hulk was the one getting knocked out. Actually most people would disagree with you as we already had this discussion years ago in another thread and even this thread as you can see, on top of it being debunked by Ghostravage in the Hulk Context Files, we literally have a direct refutation from the writer himself. When has anyone else broken Hulk out of mind control? You are trying desperately to disagree with the writer here and his interpenetration which is not gonna get you anywhere. I don't care if your interperation is the middle ground, it's still your interpretation while we have the writer stating that it Hulk getting broken out of Abyss control that had him revert to Banner when someone else asked him and thought the exact same thing as you which is Hyperion punched Hulk and turned him to Banner. The writers intention is quite clear on that and it's the only thing he has said regarding Hulk and Hyperion, except for that time when he said Hulk was stronger than Hyperion and the rest of the Avengers.

Actually you said in the quoted above that Banner remained conscious and in a fighting stance but I'm not going to dwell on that. What I will argue is that the writers intention is not clear, otherwise he would've provided a better response such as: "When Hulk was set free from Abyss he reverted to Banner and Hyperion's punch had nothing to do with it." Instead he left it open to our own interpretations.

He did remain conscious and he was in a fighting stance, as his arms where up ready to defend himself. It's pretty clear for me. Does the writer literally need to spoon feed us like we are 5 year old children? Another person wrote to him that he thought Hyperion reverted Hulk to Banner with his punch and while Hickman could have said a simple yes and confirm this, he literally stated that shaking Hulk out of Abyss control was the proper interpretation for Hulk reverting to Banner.

How do you interpret that picture as him standing? He's literally on his ass wiping his face with his is right hand while Hyperion is towering over him.

I didn't say he was standing, i said he was in a fighting stance with his arms up. He is not wiping his face either i dunno why you inserted that headcannon out of nowhere, he literally says to him he's OK.

Well apologies then but that looks like me when I'm wiping a nosebleed with my hand so hence I related to the picture (and I still think that's what it looks like). It occurs to me that I've been debating this whole point with you and never actually picked a winner LOL. I'm going Hyperion 7/10 due to blood lust, would be even split possibly 3-4/10 if he was in character.

There is no nose bleed, that would suggest Hyperion punched Banner in the face or at least gave Hulk a nose bleed which we don't see anywhere in the previous page. That's fine, i personally see it as Hulk winning with almost being impossible to lose to Hyperion here.

I realize there is no nose bleed, I'm just saying it looks like that. Any way, I guess we'll agree to disagree and I offer an internet handshake and will leave it at that.

hyperion based on ability

Sure i am down with that, take care.

Hyperion wins. No idea why he is underrated on this site. I do not think this is a debate.

He is not underrated, he is overrated because people focus on 1-2 feats he has and ignore every other feat that don't put him anywhere on that level, this is why he loses to Hulk who has a WAY more of a rich history and consistency of his power level than Hyperion.