Satele, Malgus, Kao Cen Darach & Ven Zallow (Legends) vs Dooku & Grievous (Canon)

Team 1: Satele Shan (Hope), Darth Malgus (Deceived), Kao Cen Darach (Return) & Ven Zallow (Deceived)

Team 2: Count Dooku (ROTS) & General Grievous (ROTS)

If you thought the line-up of the first team looks a little odd, my forming of the team was based on my wish to get all of the major SWTOR trailer characters together (sorry, Vindican).

So, explanations aside, which team comes out on top? I've included a bonus round which I hope doesn't become the main focus of discussion but I'm just interested in how it changes the direction of the fight.

• They start at a distance of 20m in the pictured location.
• Perfect teamwork but they otherwise fight in character.
• Bonus round: Satele and Malgus are upgraded to Grand Master and False Emperor respectively, but Grievous and Dooku also gain their Legends feats.

I’d imagine the team would win. Malgus is probably good enough with a lightsaber to at least hang with Dooku for a little bit. In that time the rest of the extraordinarily skilled characters can defeat Grievous together and join Malgus in taking out Dooku.

This team doesn't stand a chance against the Legends iterations of the Count and the General

@azronger: But it’s not the Legends versions.

Dooku and GG take the win. GG could easily take on Darach and Zallow by himself. Dooku would take Malgus and Satele, taking Satele out first. GG will finish his fight, and then help Dooku secure the quick win over Malgus.

@thevivas: Read the OP, mate.

Bonus is kinda all that matters imo.

In Legends at least this^. Canon they get wrecked.

@richard96: Dooku can give canon Yoda a fight.

@richard96: Yep. But it does Legends Dooku a hell of a lot more than canon.

@richard96: Nope. Durach sure. But Malgus has done far more than canon Dooku pre-prime and Zallow is his peer. Malgus basically did Dooku's obelisk feat when he was a barely living mess then grew in the years following.

Also ragdolling is meaningless in canon as there are no passive barriers. It's no different that lifting a normal person. So Canon Dooku gets no scaling from that.

@richard96:

Feat?

Sure

Malgus stood in a pocket under a mountain of rubble, legs bent, the power from his upraised hands preventing several tons of duracrete and steel from crushing him. Dust made his already troubled breathing more difficult. He coughed as the words of his father echoed in his mind.

He'd been sloppy, so lost in his need for revenge that he'd failed to properly evaluate the Jedi's power. He'd surrendered his reason to bloodlust. But no more. With an effort of will, he contained his anger, controlled it, made it a whetstone against which he sharpened his power. Using the Force, he blew the rubble up and away from him. It fell with a crash into the adjacent buildings.

The Third Lesson

This takes place directly after the Hope trailer. After Malgus took a point blank grenade and was blasted into a cliffside by Satele his injuries would require cybernetics to recover from. He was pretty much on deaths door.

Since when? Then TCW ahsoka can ragdoll Yoda if she wants?

Since passive barriers have never been mentioned, shown or implied in any canon source ever. They just don't exist. So yeah if Yoda doesn't defend himself Ahsoka could ragdoll him in canon.

@richard96:

Well, impressive, but malgus needed a great concentration and effort to lift those “several tons” of rubble. Dooku lifted the obelisks with ease. But fair enough, malgus wasn’t in the best shape. However, I was talking about darach and zallow. Both are < malgus.

Considering he was barely able to breathe and then grew for years after that, at which point Zallow was comparable, this applies to Zallow as well. Dooku didn't lift them with ease. You can see him straining slightly.

If Yoda doesn’t defend himself is the key part. Obi wan was fighting Dooku, it is pretty logical he put up a barrier during the fight.

Not how it works in canon. You have to actually gesture to put a barrier up, besides even in the Legends version of that fight Obi-Wan didn't put up a barrier lol.

Here's a good summary

@richard96:

You are stretching it a bit. What has zallow comparing directly him to malgus? And how can we know how much malgus grew after that?

Zallow's force signature is directly compared to him. He also stalemates him with Malgus having to resort ot a trick to win. Malgus' growth is no different to Dooku's after he left the Order. We know it was vast. But the specifics are dubious.

I did not see Dooku straining.

Just before he lifts them. You see him grit his teeth and strain.

TK is a different thing

Lol. Force push is TK. It is a telekinetic push. Also if you actually looked at the examples ragdolls are included.

If things were as you are saying, anyone could ragdoll anyone

Pretty much.

Why didn’t Kenobi ragdoll Dooku while the latter was exchanging blows with Anakin during the IH fight?

Because the Jedi only use the force for knowledge and defense in canon. Also the same logic can be applied to any fight. It just happens

Besides, in the legends fight, Dooku didn’t ragdoll Obi but he kicked him and accelerated his fall while he was unconscious.

In one version. There are two others in which the ragdoll is included.

Despite the Count’s confidence, the two Jedi forced him slowly backward. When the super droids got in the way, they cut them down. At last they reached the first set of stairs to the balcony. As the Count started up, Obi-Wan disengaged and ran to the second set of stairs to attack him from behind. Climbing the stairs, it cut down two of the super battle droids.

He can’t fight in two directions at once, Obi-Wan thought as he came up behind the Count. If we can —

Count Dooku half-turned and raised a hand. A rush of dark power lifted Obi-Wan off his feet and choked the air from his lungs. He reached for the Force to counter Dooku, but the attack had been too sudden. He saw Dooku twist, kicking out at Anakin with all his weight behind it. Anakin fell backward, and Dooku hurled Obi-Wan over the edge of the balcony.

Obi-Wan dropped to the floor below and lay half-stunned. Distantly, he felt a surge in the dark side, and then a large chunk of the balcony hurtled down at him. His last thought before he lost consciousness was, It’s up to Anakin now.

RotS Junior Novelization

And

He and Obi-Wan ignited their blue-bladed light-sabers and advanced on Dooku, who ignited his own red-bladed weapon. The beams of their lightsabers hummed and clashed as they moved across the chamber. Dooku defended himself effortlessly.

On the level above, the two droids didn't budge, but watched silently as the figures came to a momentary standstill. While the three lightsabers continued to blaze, Dooku grinned at his opponents and said, "I've been looking forward to this."

Not intimidated by the elder swordsman, Anakin said, "My powers have doubled since the last time we met, Count."

"Good," Dooku said. "Twice the pride, double the fall."

The Jedi charged once again. Dooku backed up as he parried their blows, then used the Force to throw Obi-Wan to the floor. As Anakin continued his assault on Dooku, forcing him back up the steps to the upper level, Obi-Wan recovered himself and leapt up to rejoin the fight.

The two droids fired at Obi-Wan, but he batted their fired energy bolts back at them and cut them down as he moved fast for Dooku. Unfortunately, Dooku moved faster, extending his left hand toward Obi-Wan as he used the Force to lift the Jedi off his feet while at the same time constricting his throat. As Obi-Wan gasped, Anakin swung at Dooku from behind, but Dooku kicked Anakin's stomach with his left foot, smashing the young Jedi against a nearby wall.

Obi-Wan was still suspended in the air when Dooku gestured again with his hand to send his choking victim sailing across the chamber. Obi-Wan crashed against the railing of an extended balcony, then collapsed like a broken doll to the floor. With another gesture, Dooku used the Force to tear a section of the balcony away from its braces and pin Obi-Wan's unconscious form to the floor. Master!

Rise and Fall of Darth Vader.

So yeah he's still choked in Legends.

The only member of the OR team that even remotely comes close to Dooku is Malgus. His FE version is pretty damn impressive, but I still don't think that he's even his equal at that point, much less stronger than him.

True, Dooku does have a weakness to Form V, of which Malgus is a practitioner, but I don't recall Malgus being nearly as advanced as Anakin was. Dooku should still be able to out-duel him, and Malgus definitely isn't stronger than Dooku in the Force, though he's no slouch.

If the OR team want to have any chance, then they will let Malgus and Dooku have a prolonged battle, and team up against GG, and if they are smart, will use their Force powers to incapacitate him. But, considering Dooku trained GG to fight multiple Jedi at a time, he is prepared for this and likely will have a way to prevent that from happening.

Should GG fall before Dooku can put down Malgus, then I think that the OR team can take it simply by overwhelming him.

That being said, I see GG taking out one of the Jedi rather quickly, leaving the other two stunned that their comrade fell so quickly. With it being two on one, GG takes out another Jedi, and leaves the most skilled for last, most likely Satele. Now that she's one on one with the General, she will do one of two things: tap into an unknown area of her Force potential and blast him, or she will suffer the same fate as the other Jedi. GG is not going to just stand on one place and allow her to use tutaminis against his blade, because he has three others to work with.

Satele falls, and now GG joins Dooku to secure the victory against Malgus.

I felt the need to reexamine this fight.

Team two wins.

Canon Grievous is trash. Canon Dooku would get overwhelmed. Team one wins.

Canon versions of team 2 would lose. Legends though, they would win really easily.

Canon Grievous isn't beating any combo of the Jedi at once.

He gets destroyed

With Legends the Duo might have a chance

Canon or not, Dooku and Grievous don't stand much of a chance, as Grievous is going to get overwhelmed instantly by their combined use of force powers

Legends versions of the duo stomp hard. Not sure about Canon, but this typical Grievous lowballing is disgusting.

@realistbigotry: Canon Grevious isn’t great m8. Not compared to his EU self.

Team 1 take it. Sateles Force push she used against Malgus would incap Grevious pretty much instantly. Malgus has better tanking feats. Malgus use of force scream on Dooku will probably result in that fight being over quickly as well. Dooku will literally not see it coming.

Bonus round. False emperor is really strong. As is grandmaster satele. I’ll give it to team one again. Grevious lack of force powers makes him an easy target for the team that use force powers heavily.

@noah_ouellette: So your argument is just "Grievous doesn't have force powers, and the others use the force a lot gg." Lmao, putrid. Are you trying to trigger me?

LMAO @ Malgus just force screaming Dooku to death.

@realistbigotry: All of these people are stronger than Obi Wan in force ability. He threw Grevious just fine. Satele can rip him apart and will. She has the savagery of her father when it comes to manipulating the force. Not the power. Just the ability to use it aggressively.

Dooku has never dealt with raw force power like Malgus. And when he has Savage threw him around and choked him. Lmao. Canon Dooku isn’t gonna do well against pure force users.

None of these versions of the characters are stronger than Kenobi lol.

Anyway duo sweeps.

Some people really want me to download SWTOR despite the fact that I don't like it.

Stalemate both rounds.

EU Dooku and Grevious get wiped by Satele and Malgus alone, let alone fodder canon.

The amount of people who know nothing of Star Wars is depressing.

@realistbigotry: It's not "Grievous lowballing" to say he has no defense against the TOR team's combined use force powers.

Malgus, Kao, Satele and Zallow win solidly every time. Any member of the team bar Hope Satele can compete with Dooku long enough for Grievous to be cut down. Bonus round is a practical stomp depending on the matchups.

Excuse me what is this thread? Team 1 wins both rounds. Malgus and Satele vs Dooku and Grievous is already a tough fight for the latter duo. The Jedi battlemaster combination makes this a near stomp.

Grievous could beat either Darach or Zallow alone but both would be too much. Malgus is competition for Dooku as it is. Any of the 3 with him against the Count turn the tide, especially Shan.