Restrictions:
- No Genjutsu
- No Great Ape
Setting: Indestructible Planet
Start 50m apart
Who wins
Even with Genjutsu, DBZ have shown many times to have fights between each other, or mental battles, so Genjutsu isn't just gonna work no problem.
Saiyan saga is far too powerful however, Vegeta was shaking the entire planet and causing natural disasters just by powering up.
And fodders like BOZ Piccolo can easily destroy the moon.
And Vegeta holding back treats character like that like this
Even with Genjutsu, DBZ have shown many times to have fights between each other, or mental battles, so Genjutsu isn't just gonna work no problem.
Saiyan saga is far too powerful however, Vegeta was shaking the entire planet and causing natural disasters just by powering up.
And fodders like BOZ Piccolo can easily destroy the moon.
And Vegeta holding back treats character like that like this
This
ummm....so did everybody forget that vegeta in his MOST POWERFUL form in the saiyan saga got butchered by a peasant human with a basic sword right?
whats to stop sasuke from slicing and dicing him?
@chair-sama: But he shoots the BIGGEST laser. Doesn't that mean he wins automatically?
@chair-sama: But he shoots the BIGGEST laser. Doesn't that mean he wins automatically?
but sasukes sword is BIGGER then his! he should double auto-win
@thedarkpaladin: Reasons?
@thekinfing: He can easily teleport Vegeta into one of his own attacks or trade places with an object and bisect him from behind. Vegeta has poor cutting resistance feats, inferior striking power and questionable speed.
@thekinfing: He can easily teleport Vegeta into one of his own attacks or trade places with an object and bisect him from behind. Vegeta has poor cutting resistance feats, inferior striking power and questionable speed.
Its quicker to do what he did the saibman though. Vegeta has poor cutting resistance feats? Everything is used with Ki or do you thing Frieza is sword level. What about sasuke tho? When he gets hurt by a punch does he have poor punch resistance feats?
I mean just because you have a sword doesn't mean you can literally cut somene. Yajirob had power behind his swing since he didn't waste none of his energy. He is also at that point strong as a raditz to which vegeta fodder the saibaman that failed. He puts his power in his swings, and also he caught vegeta off guard when he cut his tail for he was fighting krillan and gohan, and somewhat goku. So don't expect for him to be caught off guard when he was fighting more powerful foes than Sauske has ever fought. Hell if you really want to get into this more. Remember that comment that Madara was as STRONG as Nappa. Who the hell is even more above nappa level? oh right VEGETA
@thekinfing: He can easily teleport Vegeta into one of his own attacks or trade places with an object and bisect him from behind. Vegeta has poor cutting resistance feats, inferior striking power and questionable speed.
Its quicker to do what he did the saibman though. Vegeta has poor cutting resistance feats? Everything is used with Ki or do you thing Frieza is sword level. What about sasuke tho? When he gets hurt by a punch does he have poor punch resistance feats?
Vegeta doesn't resort to TK off the bat in character. He did so against the Saibamen because he found it to be expendable for losing to a fodder like Tien. And TK isn't quicker than instantaneous movement, which Sasuke's Rinnegan grants. As for the point of striking, obviously Sasuke can be hurt by punches... However, Sasuke himself has demonstrated super striking feats to anyone in the Saiyan Saga.
@jackkira89: Madara being only as strong as Nappa wasn't an official statement lol
@jackkira89: Do find me the source for that comment about Madara being as powerful as Nappa.
Yajirobe has no feats at all to say he's above the likes of Sasuke, or even equal to Raditz for that matter, not that it would be enough.
So why can't Sasuke catch Vegeta off guard with Amenotejikara, and why does Vegeta need to be caught off guard at all when he has no cutting/piercing resistance feats in the first place?
@thekinfing: He can easily teleport Vegeta into one of his own attacks or trade places with an object and bisect him from behind. Vegeta has poor cutting resistance feats, inferior striking power and questionable speed.
Its quicker to do what he did the saibman though. Vegeta has poor cutting resistance feats? Everything is used with Ki or do you thing Frieza is sword level. What about sasuke tho? When he gets hurt by a punch does he have poor punch resistance feats?
Vegeta doesn't resort to TK off the bat in character. He did so against the Saibamen because he found it to be expendable for losing to a fodder like Tien. And TK isn't quicker than instantaneous movement, which Sasuke's Rinnegan grants. As for the point of striking, obviously Sasuke can be hurt by punches... However, Sasuke himself has demonstrated super striking feats to anyone in the Saiyan Saga.
But he does. You just said he did against saibaman as well and he did nappa. But theres more down below. Tien is not fodder to sasuke tho. Nappa is also stronger. Recoome is stronger then a Moon buster what phyically killed be Vegeta. But heres how Vegeta starts off in fights..
@jackkira89: Do find me the source for that comment about Madara being as powerful as Nappa.
Yajirobe has no feats at all to say he's above the likes of Sasuke, or even equal to Raditz for that matter, not that it would be enough.
So why can't Sasuke catch Vegeta off guard with Amenotejikara, and why does Vegeta need to be caught off guard at all when he has no cutting/piercing resistance feats in the first place?
Yajorbe is stronger then piccolo when he blew up the moon. Here is two official power charts of before and after. His power level was stronger then piccolo who casually vaporized the moon during sayian saga.
But he does. You just said he did against saibaman as well and he did nappa.
He didn't fight the Saibamen. He planned to exterminate it for being inferior enough to lose the battle against Tien. You're wrong about Nappa, by the way. Vegeta killed him with a Ki blast, not telekinesis:
But theres more down below.
No idea why you're showing me scans of Namek Saga Vegeta as if they pertain to this battle at all. Not to mention, most of them have nothing at all to do with TK...
Tien is not fodder to sasuke tho.
His only advantage over Sasuke is through DC. Sasuke has better feats in ever other category.
Nappa is also stronger.
Same as above.
Recoome is stronger then a Moon buster what phyically killed be Vegeta. But heres how Vegeta starts off in fights..
Being stronger than a guy who can blow up moons with Ki blasts says nothing about his physicals or speed. Just DC and that's not enough to give Vegeta the win here. Furthermore, you don't seem to understand that we're discussing Saiyan Saga Vegeta.
I can't imagine that this hasn't been done at least once.
@Trndo: Which again, says nothing about his physicals. His power level is higher than a guy who can blow up the moon with energy attacks, but is later impressed by destruction nowhere near moon level:
https://imgur.com/a/Ud22w
But he does. You just said he did against saibaman as well and he did nappa.
He didn't fight the Saibamen. He planned to exterminate it for being inferior enough to lose the battle against Tien. You're wrong about Nappa, by the way. Vegeta killed him with a Ki blast, not telekinesis:
But theres more down below.
No idea why you're showing me scans of Namek Saga Vegeta as if they pertain to this battle at all. Not to mention, most of them have nothing at all to do with TK...
Tien is not fodder to sasuke tho.
His only advantage over Sasuke is through DC. Sasuke has better feats in ever other category.
Nappa is also stronger.
Same as above.
Recoome is stronger then a Moon buster what phyically killed be Vegeta. But heres how Vegeta starts off in fights..
Being stronger than a guy who can blow up moons with Ki blasts says nothing about his physicals or speed. Just DC and that's not enough to give Vegeta the win here. Furthermore, you don't seem to understand that we're discussing Saiyan Saga Vegeta.
He killed the saibaman so he did fight it......
I know its not namek saga. I posted those scans to prove its in character for vegeta to go in for the kill.
Ki increases every stat. If that was the case then why are character getting faster the stronger they get? Heres proof but theres more scans like this if you want them.
This what you said "Vegeta doesn't resort to TK off the bat in character". I posted some evidence that does start off with TK and I added in scans about him starting off with killer moves.
This the other TK feat, even though this namek stills shows in character.
@Trndo: Which again, says nothing about his physicals. His power level is higher than a guy who can blow up the moon with energy attacks, but is later impressed by destruction nowhere near moon level:
https://imgur.com/a/Ud22w
Ki correlates the same power
@Trndo: Starting at 2:41, Sasuke would blitz Vegeta before he has time to raise his hand for TK.
I mean just because you have a sword doesn't mean you can literally cut somene. Yajirob had power behind his swing since he didn't waste none of his energy. He is also at that point strong as a raditz to which vegeta fodder the saibaman that failed. He puts his power in his swings, and also he caught vegeta off guard when he cut his tail for he was fighting krillan and gohan, and somewhat goku. So don't expect for him to be caught off guard when he was fighting more powerful foes than Sauske has ever fought. Hell if you really want to get into this more. Remember that comment that Madara was as STRONG as Nappa. Who the hell is even more above nappa level? oh right VEGETA
and who is even stronger then madara?
oh yea sasuke.
regardless of yachirobe using ki or not, it was a NORMAL blade. unless you mean near-fearless yachirobe is stronger then sasuke, the guy who can casually shatter mountains with a sword swing, who can cut open mountain sized meteors like they were butter and so fourth.
show me a single feat(other then him cutting vegeta lmao) that puts him above sasuke in power.
and as for catching him off guard. remember Vegeta in this saga, could NOT sense energy(he stated in namek saga that he learned how to do it by watching the humans do it, as well as how to reduce his Ki down to extremely low levels as too not be discovered by their scouters) , they used their scouters. so all sasuke has to do is create some shadow clones, have them hiding out, and have them come up behind and hit vegeta. or you know, literally teleport vegeta into his blade the way he did to madara.
or even just instant teleport behind vegeta. again, remember at this point, vegeta has never seen true teleportation before.
infact in DBZ teleportation AKA instant transmission was a technique of the yardrat people and very few people even knew how to use it. he would not be expecting somebody like sasuke, who no doubt he would expect to be weaker then him, to have such a powerful ability.
vegeta is the KING of cockiness, and he vastly underestimates people to such a large degree its not even funny.
Even with Genjutsu, DBZ have shown many times to have fights between each other, or mental battles, so Genjutsu isn't just gonna work no problem.
Saiyan saga is far too powerful however, Vegeta was shaking the entire planet and causing natural disasters just by powering up.
And fodders like BOZ Piccolo can easily destroy the moon.
And Vegeta holding back treats character like that like this
Way out of Sasuke's league.
He killed the saibaman so he did fight it......
Terrible logic. Do you consider it a fight when a gunman walks up to someone and shoots them dead on the street? Vegeta claimed he killed the Saibamen because it already lost the fight:
I know its not namek saga. I posted those scans to prove its in character for vegeta to go in for the kill.
Most of the scans you posted have nothing to do with TK, so it's irrelevant. And Vegeta didn't go right for the kill against Goku in the Saiyan Saga. He made it clear he wanted to take his time and torture Goku, rather than finish him off at the start:
Ki increases every stat. If that was the case then why are character getting faster the stronger they get? Heres proof but theres more scans like this if you want them.
There is no proof Ki increases every stat linearly. Only special techniques like Kaiô-Ken have been known to do so. For example, a character with an advantage in physical strength can still be inferior when it comes to speed. This was established in the Cell Saga when Trunks fought against Cell and in the Namek Saga when Goku battles Ginyu:
This what you said "Vegeta doesn't resort to TK off the bat in character". I posted some evidence that does start off with TK and I added in scans about him starting off with killer moves.
Yes, and you've yet to show a scan of Saiyan Saga Vegeta doing so in an actual fight. I could easily say Sasuke would start the fight off with Amenotejikara before Vegeta even gets the opportunity to raise his fingers.
This the other TK feat, even though this namek stills shows in character.
Actually, he started with a physical assault, then followed through with TK:
You seem to have omitted that little detail.
Ki correlates the same power
Do you have proof DB characters' punches equate to their Ki blasts? Because there isn't one moon or planet level striking feat until DBS and not a single statement confirming their physicals are on that level.
@Trndo: Starting at 2:41, Sasuke would blitz Vegeta before he has time to raise his hand for TK.
Sasuke is fast but not Saiyan fast. Goku and vegeta were having whole fight scenes in the time span of a single heart beat.
@cable_extreme: a heartbeat is on average about a second and base Naruto accomplished that in Pain arc. So by your very own admission SS vegeta and Goku are on Base Narutos speed tier.
@thedarkpaladin said:
@thekinfing: He can easily teleport Vegeta into one of his own attacks or trade places with an object and bisect him from behind. Vegeta has poor cutting resistance feats, inferior striking power and questionable speed.
Still using off guard moments against a weakened Vegeta to prove your point, when DBZ already shown fodders hurting Goku when off guard, thus Vegeta being hurt by Yajirobe while off guard doesn't prove anything. Thus your point of them having poor cutting resistance is sheer bullshit. Inferior striking power lol punching planet level beings through mountains > punching a continental or moon level guy through a mountain, assuming he ever did to begin with.
Ki isn't exploding energy with no force, thus your point is completely moot and only relies on your standards that they have feats in strikes similar to energy despite ignoring the durability of the user they are punching.
@cable_extreme: a heartbeat is on average about a second and base Naruto accomplished that in Pain arc. So by your very own admission SS vegeta and Goku are on Base Narutos speed tier.
Can you provide a feat please? I'll provide the scans if you wish. And heartbeats on average are about a half a second, and that isn't taking into account stress from fighting.
@thedarkpaladin said:
@thekinfing: He can easily teleport Vegeta into one of his own attacks or trade places with an object and bisect him from behind. Vegeta has poor cutting resistance feats, inferior striking power and questionable speed.
Still using off guard moments against a weakened Vegeta to prove your point, when DBZ already shown fodders hurting Goku when off guard, thus Vegeta being hurt by Yajirobe while off guard doesn't prove anything. Thus your point of them having poor cutting resistance is sheer bullshit. Inferior striking power lol punching planet level beings through mountains > punching a continental or moon level guy through a mountain, assuming he ever did to begin with.
Ki isn't exploding energy with no force, thus your point is completely moot and only relies on your standards that they have feats in strikes similar to energy despite ignoring the durability of the user they are punching.
Vegeta doesn't have the same problem of getting caught off guard like Goku does either, he is much less prone to sneak attacks.
@thedarkpaladin said:
@thekinfing: He can easily teleport Vegeta into one of his own attacks or trade places with an object and bisect him from behind. Vegeta has poor cutting resistance feats, inferior striking power and questionable speed.
Still using off guard moments against a weakened Vegeta to prove your point, when DBZ already shown fodders hurting Goku when off guard, thus Vegeta being hurt by Yajirobe while off guard doesn't prove anything. Thus your point of them having poor cutting resistance is sheer bullshit. Inferior striking power lol punching planet level beings through mountains > punching a continental or moon level guy through a mountain, assuming he ever did to begin with.
Ki isn't exploding energy with no force, thus your point is completely moot and only relies on your standards that they have feats in strikes similar to energy despite ignoring the durability of the user they are punching.
Vegeta doesn't have the same problem of getting caught off guard like Goku does either, he is much less prone to sneak attacks.
Logically yes, they shouldn't, but super came in and brought this fighting idea that being off guard means you go from hero to zero.
Krillin and Roshi had full fights under 1 second, General Tao throws pillars over 2300 kilometer distance within 15 mins or so, he also catches the dragon balls which move around the earth at fast speed after he made the wish.
remember that, they even played rock paper scissors during their fight lol, they already surpassed people's ability to see their movements.
@u_wot_m8: Man, are you that obsessed with me that you're really following me around to every thread just to get my attention? I understand you're probably upset about losing past arguments, but they're just fictional characters...
Anyway, Sasuke can easily catch Vegeta off guard with his plethora of hax like Amenotejikara or Amaterasu, if you want to go that route. Not that Vegeta needs to be off guard in the first place when Sasuke's physical showings are above his in ever facet. The only advantage Vegeta has is DC and perhaps durability to energy attacks as well.
Feel free to show feats if you disagree.
Krillin and Roshi had full fights under 1 second, General Tao throws pillars over 2300 kilometer distance within 15 mins or so, he also catches the dragon balls which move around the earth at fast speed after he made the wish.
remember that, they even played rock paper scissors during their fight lol, they already surpassed people's ability to see their movements.
Pretty much, Roshi was easily able to catch many machine gun bullets point blank easily. Goku himself got many times faster, over 7 times to be exact, when going to Korin tower and back.
He killed the saibaman so he did fight it......
Terrible logic. Do you consider it a fight when a gunman walks up to someone and shoots them dead on the street? Vegeta claimed he killed the Saibamen because it already lost the fight:
I know its not namek saga. I posted those scans to prove its in character for vegeta to go in for the kill.
Most of the scans you posted have nothing to do with TK, so it's irrelevant. And Vegeta didn't go right for the kill against Goku in the Saiyan Saga. He made it clear he wanted to take his time and torture Goku, rather than finish him off at the start:
Ki increases every stat. If that was the case then why are character getting faster the stronger they get? Heres proof but theres more scans like this if you want them.
There is no proof Ki increases every stat linearly. Only special techniques like Kaiô-Ken have been known to do so. For example, a character with an advantage in physical strength can still be inferior when it comes to speed. This was established in the Cell Saga when Trunks fought against Cell and in the Namek Saga when Goku battles Ginyu:
This what you said "Vegeta doesn't resort to TK off the bat in character". I posted some evidence that does start off with TK and I added in scans about him starting off with killer moves.
Yes, and you've yet to show a scan of Saiyan Saga Vegeta doing so in an actual fight. I could easily say Sasuke would start the fight off with Amenotejikara before Vegeta even gets the opportunity to raise his fingers.
This the other TK feat, even though this namek stills shows in character.
Actually, he started with a physical assault, then followed through with TK:
You seem to have omitted that little detail.
Ki correlates the same power
Do you have proof DB characters' punches equate to their Ki blasts? Because there isn't one moon or planet level striking feat until DBS and not a single statement confirming their physicals are on that level.
He did kill the saibman. Umm the gunman part sounds weird. Instead of fight I will say battle then?
So sasuke hasen't killed everybody instantly either. With that be said, When Vegeta has a bigger gap in power then he will one shot you. Goku was obviously comparable to Vegeta. Sasuke is not.
Actually Cell was stronger then trunk in buff form or not. Also cell was able to inimate the same form. Then why is characters like 17,Tien,Roshi faster and stronger without Kaioken? How would Sayian Saga Goku be slower then Namek Saga Goku?
I just showed the scan. Ill show it again. And he did it namek. Why am I repeating myself?
Even if he didn't start right away he did it before. The second scans shows he still capable of doing it.
Gokus strongest feat was neutralize a universal threat punch from beerus with the same force of punches. Where has he shown to use Ki destructive like that without Ki control...
@u_wot_m8: Man, are you that obsessed with me that you're really following me around to every thread just to get my attention? I understand you're probably upset about losing past arguments, but they're just fictional characters...
Uh no, I was here before you.
Anyway, Sasuke can easily catch Vegeta off guard with his plethora of hax like Amenotejikara or Amaterasu, if you want to go that route. Not that Vegeta needs to be off guard in the first place when Sasuke's physical showings are above his in ever facet. The only advantage Vegeta has is DC and perhaps durability to energy attacks as well.
Killing moon level or planet level beings with punches > destroying mountains. I don't by your agenda bud, where punching a planet level guy through a mountain = punching a normal guy through a mountain and they aren't higher until they present higher level striking feats and ignoring the durability of the person they are punching.
Ki has force, don't forget it champ. It's funny as well how hypocritical you are, ignoring ki having force, yet use cutting attacks made from Ki as an argument for split durability -.- bias much, just cherry pick what you want.
Feel free to show feats if you disagree.
Don't need too, your the one claiming there physical is crap while ignoring what Ki can do.
@Trndo: Don't bother, his argument ignores the person power and only concentrates on the destruction itself caused, doesn't matter if you punch a galaxy level being through a building, you only have building level punches according to him. He also cherry picks what he wants Ki to be used for, ignoring that Ki has force and not applying to his physical durability nonsense but happy enough to use ki making cutting attacks to showing the "split durability" DBZ guys have.
Using his logic, Toriko striking power > Galactus because Galactus never destroyed a planet with a punch
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