Sasuke and Naruto vs Dante and Vergil

@evilryux2fold:

When did i ever say that Naruto and Sasuke are gods??? DONT PUT WORDS IN MY MOUTH.....I said they are fighting someone equivalent to a god because that woman is basically warping reality instanty without warning......just giv it up. Dante and Vergil cant defend against Amaterasu or genjutsu......nor can they defend against multiple bijuu bombs. You just refuse to admit that they stand NO CHANCE of winning

I just got tired of arguing with them.....i COMPLETELY agree. The DMC fanboyism in t8is thread is UNBELIEVABLE.

@mee09: If you disagree with someone's opinion, it's usually more productive to state WHY, instead of just throwing rampant insults at other Viners.

I mean no offense when I say this, but when the only thing you do is come in here, say who wins without explanation, and start calling people fanboys, nobody is going to respect you or what you have to say. All it does is lead to pointless arguments and flame wars.

Now, let's try this again shall we?

I think Dante could solo because he's far faster than the both of them, his regeneration can tank pretty much anything they send his way as it's on par with Wolverine, and he has Hax abilities like Quicksilver and Royal Guard that the two ninjas have no counter for.

Now you go.

Jmarshmallow

The ninjas outclass the demons in firepower greatly and Dante and Virgil have no counter to techs like Amaterasu bijuu dama rasenshuriken bijuu dama-rasenshuriken jiton rasengan as well as having no counter for Sasuke and Naruto flight advantage outside time manipulation as well as being outclassed in durability (not talking about healing factors) Perfect Susanoo and Naruto's senjutsu of 6 paths cloak outside of Yamato they lack the force to actually hurt either of them also Naruto spam shadows that can fight full scale wars will make things hectic for Dante and Virgil

@mee09: dude no one here is a dmc fanboy i was just stating facts and you're very arrogant to say naruto would stomp a hero like dante... Anyway WITH these limitation dante will have a tougher time than before but without? Naruto dies in a sneeze lol... But i think the 4th hokage although not much would have striked as more of a challenge than uchiha or uzimaki... and i say that because with the limitations removed Dante is litterally invincible... no attack works on him in his majin form so yeah nice try... and i think they should stop letting people even include dante in these stupid battles because he is way op and people are obviously always trying to make him seem like hes less than what he actually is. He is the most iconic and overrated yes... but that doesnt mean you have to try to ignore all his raw power and skills... HE SHOOTS SPECTRAL DRAGONS IN OUTER SPACE..... naruto has done nothing on that level... dante needs to be banned since this is a comic site anyway.

@ghost_rider1: lol your funny... and its funny how you still practically haven't came up with a logical way for naruto to counter quicksilver or the time bangle? Why dont you just admit that dante is the clear winner here? And fine you know what since i know you're gonna say that quicksilver isn't time manipulation then fine... time bangle.. definate time stop right there and naruto gets beheaded in half a second...

Bangle of time isn't canon. Dante is far from invincible. Using a gameplay mechanic such as Manon not receiving damage is a NLF.

Sorry it took so long to get back, I don't post much on the weekends, normally just vine from work to kill time (kush job but low pay lol).

The phasing is do to how Trick-Up is different than Air trick. Trick-up is actually teleportation where as Air Trick is described as extremely fast movement used to emulate Trick-Up. In his final fight with Dante in DMC3 Vergil was basically able to become invincible for limited amounts of time using Trick-up while still attacking with Judgment Cuts (or helm breakers but he had to reveal himself to perform that variant obviously) in rapid succession . Granted he only did it while in Devil Trigger (and it drained his devil trigger state quickly) so that could be why he was able to use it in such a fashion but since Trick-up itself is a skill that can be used with out Devil Trigger I believe it is safe to assume that the duration was the the advantage rather than how the skill operates itself but that is a stretch in logic admittedly. I think we can both agree Vergil is the weak link here, clearly due to Vergil being defeated rather early on in his growth compared to Dante his overall power is lacking.

On to the Teleportation, arguably the most important part of this fight.

First your right, I did forget him teleporting Madara against his will and if he can move Madara he can move Sasuke or Dante so I'll back off on that point, touche. Also your right he did mention that they shouldn't save

Concentration is needed for any action to a degree yes but some things are second hand nature and some aren't. Batman and other aim dodgers have to "concentrate" to dodge a bullet but it isn't something they have to focus on to perform accurately it's second hand nature to them similar to breathing or a reflex. Some powers require a great deal of focus to perform especially in a combat situation, i.e. Kamehameha, Instant Trasmission, or Kamui (when used my Kakashi generally). So I maintain that the level of focus required damages Sasuke's teleportation being truly instant. The fastest showcases of it Sasuke had planned ahead to use it, like the case of him teleporting Madara. But I'll break on the teleportation for a moment to address another thing. Quicksilver's flaw as you see it.

The flaw in Quicksilver you are referring to has never shown to be an effective flaw beyond the instance of Geryon using it. In every Scenario Dante's has shown to be superior to Geryon's, His has never shown a maximum range for them to escape to seemingly slowing time every where with the point originating on Dante and it moves so fast that Dante himself doesn't have time to react to it, it going of in between Dante's attacks when used in the middle of a combo and before he could react to falling rocks in the cutscene where he uses it for the first time. If their combat speeds are similar as you have said then if Dante can't move faster than it then neither should Naruto or Sasuke. It even seems to effect multiple dimension as (if you look earlier in my post explaining Trick-up) when he uses his long duration trick-up it still slows down the rate ad which he can Helmsplitter and Judgement cut and the speed at which the moves operate. So QS should still be effective at least with how the move has operated. Not to mention they would have to basically know ahead of time to even think to get out of the way. Again thanks to teleportation Sasuke has the best chance of getting away but if he messes up and doesn't move Naruto as well then Naruto will get blitzed and they lose their AoE advantage and number advantage. Here is a video of Dante using Quicksilver in combat, notice how everything stops in movement including Dante as the orb expands, that's just how fast it is , it's nigh instantaneous. Also notice how he can stop and start it at will while multitasking with several other enemies and movements marking its lack of required focus to use. He can do it pretty much out of reflex, even when he first gets the power and hasn't had time to practice it as evidenced by the cutscene when he first gets it and might not even know he has the power (said video is elsewhere in the thread).

But back to Sasuke's teleportation.

Further proof of it requiring concentration, focus or time to teleport is the scan you posted. If it is truly instantaneous Naruto shouldn't have had time to notice or react to Sasuke falling before Sasuke teleported to safety unless Sasuke has a serious flair for the dramatic. In the previous Chapter he summons a Hawk to land on instead of using his Teleportation to get to safety, in the same chapter the same hawk is injured and Sasuke is grabbed and saved by Naruto from falling in the lava. With the bullet timing reaction speed of Dante combined with time slow a fraction of a second is all it would take to end Sasuke or Naruto and I postulate that activating the technique requires more than that time. Maybe it's an accuracy thing and Sasuke could just teleport to a random spot if he gave up that fraction of a second but from what I have seen it isn't perfectly instant. Even with the Kaguya scan, she may be able to cancel out their jutsu by touching them but even then if it was perfectly instant she shouldn't even have the time to touch him in the first place, dimensional warping or not, she hasn't exhibited a speed so great that it is beyond their combat speed. The only explanation is that it came from his blind spot and if that is the case then that is a massive weakness in your survival plan as well because Dante could also attack from behind with air trick + QS. He shouldn't have to run or dodge or do anything to avoid getting tagged but he doesn't use it like that. Maybe it's WiS (writer doing it for dramatic flair), maybe it's CiS (Sasuke not being used to using it like that or just choosing not to) but whatever the reason he hasn't exhibited perfect instant teleportation or instant activation of his teleportation which is what he needs to survive this blitz otherwise it's not much better than Vergil's Trick-Up.

Now I'll try and tie up some loose ends. Sasuke can't fly under his own power so while he may be able to teleport away i don't think he can perfectly maintain a distance against other people with teleporting and equivalent combat speed. Evidenced by his use of his hawk summon to stay a float and his use of Naruto's technique (Goudama? sorry spelling) to stay a float after his Hawk is injured and even before that the first time he teleports to safety he grabs onto Naruto's leg to stay afloat before Naruto sets the platform up for him.

As for Naruto Flying, using a combination of Air tricks, Trick-ups, Enemy Steps , Air Hike , Star Shooters, (lateral Air hikes Dante has) and bullet rains Dante and Virgil working together should be able to stay airborne and be very mobile (not as mobile as true flight obviously lol) indefinitely but this is again pushing it, just food for thought.

Amaterartsu is certainly a threat but it can be avoided and blocked (Gaara was able to react to it with his sand Sheild) and if Sasuke Dies the effects end. BBs we have agreed Dante can Royal Gaurd and while I don't think I'll have convinced you Virgil has a method of avoiding them I believe he does.

The Below scans from left to right:

• Sasuke summoning his hawk showing his lack of flight and lack of the use of his ability to teleport to saftey, i posit because it isn't truly instant.
• Sasuke using Naruto's technique to stay afloat again representing his lack of flight.
• Sasuke grabbing naruto's leg to avoid falling into the lava after using his Teleportation.

Geez I may have posted too much. Anyway this really hinges on how instant Sasuke's activation oh his teleportation is. If really is instant activation being basically reflex speed then he won't get blitzed (unless coming from behind negates his chances to react in which case he can still get blitzed) but if it isn't at reflex speed as I posit it isn't then he will get blitzed regardless. I definetely think it is a much closer fight than when I first came in to the thread so kudos for that but I'm just not convinced that Dante can't blitz either of them. I'll change again, first from 10/10 to 6-7/10 and now I'm thinking something as narrows as 5.5/10 all because of your arguing but with the Air Trick + QS blitz in place Dante is a monster MVP in this fight.

.

dante puts a bullet into Naruto's head and vergil makes spaghetti out of sasuke's entrails.

LOL@ DMC fanboys who know nothing of Naruto and didn't even read OP

On topic, Sasuke solos Amaterasu = GG, Naruto solos tailed beast bomb = GG.

This DMC ignorance based wank needs to stop.

@rulerofthevine: I know some rabbid fanboy once even stated in a thread that Dante could kill Asura from ASURAS WRATH YOU KNOW THE PLANETBUSTING GODKILLER

sasuke and Naruto currently would solo in 5 secs

@vintage_spiderman: I haven't played Asura's Wrath so I don't know much about Asura and my goal here isn't to defend the "fanboy" your talking about or to say that he can defeat Asura, but Dante has defeated Mundus (Reality Warper, The Devil, Truly Immortal, basically a God) , Argosax the Chaos (Demon God of Chaos), Despair Embodied (which as the name implies is the concept of Despair in physical form so he defeated a concept) and defeated a being wielding the power of his Father (Sparda) who has done all of the same amazing things implying he is actually more powerful than his Father(Sparda) in his most powerful incarnation. Again, can he defeat Asura? I don't know maybe he can't. Is it fair to argue it? I don't see why not, the other thread wasn't locked for mismatch I take it. You shouldn't run around insulting other people just because they disagree with you. Me and @nyas have been having a pretty good debate here by having a good understanding of both teams and the scenario, that is how the battle forum should be. We may think there will be a different outcome but we aren't calling the other a fanboy for liking the other character. If you don't know about a character learn about him. If you do know and really think he will lose then debate against him. But don't just start calling people fanboys and dissmissing their opinions because you don't like a character or because you like a character more than another. Maybe read some of what has been said in the thread and post something other than "lolstomp" "lolfanboy" and "lolwank", and it isn't just for you it's for anyone posting it on either side of the debate, the DMC supporters included.

@cerberus369616: ??? why are you so concerned about what I call someone else over the Internet......are the fanboy I was talking about speaking from an alt account possibly if your answer is no then why are we having this discussion to begin with. Also did You just butt into my conversation just to start indirectly accusing me of being an asshole because I call people that are fanboys what they are fanboys.

@cerberus369616: This is a pretty long post, must have taken you quite some time. This goes to show how much effort you are putting into your answers, and I'm glad to see that you are taking this so seriously. :)

The phasing is do to how Trick-Up is different than Air trick. Trick-up is actually teleportation where as Air Trick is described as extremely fast movement used to emulate Trick-Up. In his final fight with Dante in DMC3 Vergil was basically able to become invincible for limited amounts of time using Trick-up while still attacking with Judgment Cuts (or helm breakers but he had to reveal himself to perform that variant obviously) in rapid succession . Granted he only did it while in Devil Trigger (and it drained his devil trigger state quickly) so that could be why he was able to use it in such a fashion but since Trick-up itself is a skill that can be used with out Devil Trigger I believe it is safe to assume that the duration was the the advantage rather than how the skill operates itself but that is a stretch in logic admittedly. I think we can both agree Vergil is the weak link here, clearly due to Vergil being defeated rather early on in his growth compared to Dante his overall power is lacking.

I have to disagree with you about this phasing explanation. Trick-up is supposed to be instant transmission (teleportation) :

Nowhere is it hinted that Vergil can travel through dimensions when using it, It's just... instant movement. And the two instances you are using as examples can actually be explained with game mechanics :

1)Trick up + Helmbreaker : This is a very basic case of what is know as invincibility frames, it's the exact same phenomenon that happens when you (Dante) dodge by rolling (IG), Or when Nevan reforms her body from the bats movement, during that brief instant the characters turns completely invulnerable, but does that mean they are phasing through dimensions or that they are canonically supposed to be invulnerable ? Not really, it's just a part of the IG fights (to help people dodge with dante, and to prevent pointless guns spam with Nevan).

2)Trick up + Massive judgment cut : Similarly, Vergil's disappearance during this combination is IMO due to game mechanics. First let us have a look at what the move is : It's a massive continuation of judgment cuts thrown randomly all over the battlefield. Now realistically speaking Vergil is at his most vulnerable when performing a JC (I'm sure you already know this), and targeting him while he is performing it is a pretty common strategy that can allow the player to deal some decent damage. Of course normally a single JC lasts for a short time, but in this case Vergil is repeatedly using it. So can you guess what would happen if he were to just stand there like usual ? I find it obvious that a good player would never miss this chance to inflict some massive damage, which as a result would make the boss fight too easy... And this is why the developers had to find a way around vergil's vulnerability, thus his disappearance when preforming the move.

Of course I have no definite proof that this is the full reason behind his disappearance, just like one can't provide a definite proof that he is phasing through dimensions during that time, or that he just turns invisible... I just think that my explanation is the most plausible in this case, since dimensional travel and invisibility aren't part of vergil's abilities.

Regardless, TU is stated to be instant teleportation. So using it to phase through attacks would be impossible, since Vergil would literally appear at the exact same instant he disappeared at just a few meters away.

About this :

The flaw in Quicksilver you are referring to has never shown to be an effective flaw beyond the instance of Geryon using it. In every Scenario Dante's has shown to be superior to Geryon's, His has never shown a maximum range for them to escape to seemingly slowing time every where with the point originating on Dante and it moves so fast that Dante himself doesn't have time to react to it, it going of in between Dante's attacks when used in the middle of a combo and before he could react to falling rocks in the cutscene where he uses it for the first time. If their combat speeds are similar as you have said then if Dante can't move faster than it then neither should Naruto or Sasuke.

And this :

Not to mention they would have to basically know ahead of time to even think to get out of the way. Again thanks to teleportation Sasuke has the best chance of getting away but if he messes up and doesn't move Naruto as well then Naruto will get blitzed and they lose their AoE advantage and number advantage. Here is a video of Dante using Quicksilver in combat, notice how everything stops in movement including Dante as the orb expands, that's just how fast it is , it's nigh instantaneous. Also notice how he can stop and start it at will while multitasking with several other enemies and movements marking its lack of required focus to use. He can do it pretty much out of reflex, even when he first gets the power and hasn't had time to practice it as evidenced by the cutscene when he first gets it and might not even know he has the power (said video is

The flaw I'm talking about is actually this :

One can clearly see the QS sphere expanding, Yes it's very fast but still not instantaneous.

We can also approximatively determine how large it is based on it's expanding and retracting speed. Basically, the borders of sphere start expending with Dante as it's center and then retract from the limits of those borders toward Dante.

Now, what if we assume that the size of the sphere can expand infinitely ? Since the expansion's speed isn't instant, it goes without saying that the longer Dante uses it, the larger the sphere will get, right ? And it's also common sense that (since it's retraction speed is constant) that the larger the sphere gets, the longer it will take to completely retract back once QS is canceled, right ? And here is how the "infinite" argument gets debunked : After a s certain time, no matter how longer you use QS, the sphere will always take the same time to completely retract !

I'm sure you get what this means but for those who don't : It means that the sphere has a max size after which, it will no longer expand no matter how long you keep the skill ON, thus why it always takes the same time to retract back. And based on it's expansion/retraction speed, I think that 100-200 meters seems to be the max distance.

With that being said, I'll agree with the speed part, If Dante tries to use it from a few meters away from the duo, they will surely get caught in it. But if he tries from a larger distance ? No, I don't think they would fail to react, and even assuming they fail to completely get out of it's range, they would at the very least manage some tens of meters of lead, more than enough for sasuke to use susano'o or tp them to safety, and more than enough for Naruto to get into Kurama (or whatever other bijuu mode) or simply fly out of Dante's attacks range. That would pretty much doom Dante's blitz plan to fail : unlike vergil he can't teleport to get inside of susanoo or Kurama (No yamato) and he doesn't have the strength necessary to smash either of them (in one shot at least) since Kurama mode Naruto tanked the ten tails bijuu dama :

While Sasuke's susanoo should be at least as powerful as Madara's, which it took several mountains+ attacks to partially damage (you can see how many mountains that explosion dwarfed, and sasuke's should be more powerful thanks to sage chakra) :

But arguing all of this is kind of pointless, since this scenario is only possible if Dante manages to get within QS reach, and with an entire mile separating both teams, Team 1 can simply fly out of range before team 2 reaches them (they can use clones wielding Bijuu dama's to slow them down and potentially take vergil down).

It even seems to effect multiple dimension as (if you look earlier in my post explaining Trick-up) when he uses his long duration trick-up it still slows down the rate ad which he can Helmsplitter and Judgement cut and the speed at which the moves operate. So QS should still be effective at least with how the move has operated.

Sorry, but this is another game mechanic (and an obvious one at that). Not only is vergil not proven to be dimensional teleporter but it wouldn't even make sense that he gets affected by QS. Think about it, Vergil's teleportation is clearly stated to be "instant", something instant is something independant from time since it isn't speed (speed is distance/time, and something instant takes 0 time to move making it unquantifiable by the speed logic since distance/0= ??). Normally, no matter how fast Dante gets with QS or no matter how slow vergil gets. His teleportation should be completely unaffected since it has nothing to do with time, and yet we can actually see a blur when Vergi moves.... so does this mean that vergil isn't instant ? No that doesn't make sense, canonically speaking his teleportation is, so anything showing otherwise is purely and obviously a game mechanic.

Further proof of it requiring concentration, focus or time to teleport is the scan you posted. If it is truly instantaneous Naruto shouldn't have had time to notice or react to Sasuke falling before Sasuke teleported to safety unless Sasuke has a serious flair for the dramatic. In the previous Chapter he summons a Hawk to land on instead of using his Teleportation to get to safety, in the same chapter the same hawk is injured and Sasuke is grabbed and saved by Naruto from falling in the lava. With the bullet timing reaction speed of Dante combined with time slow a fraction of a second is all it would take to end Sasuke or Naruto and I postulate that activating the technique requires more than that time. Maybe it's an accuracy thing and Sasuke could just teleport to a random spot if he gave up that fraction of a second but from what I have seen it isn't perfectly instant.

I think that you are now confusing what's instant lol So let me explain :

*Sasuke when using the technique = Instant.

*In order for sasuke to use the technique he must first make a thought = technique activates on thought (possibly needs something more, but that hasn't been stated or shown yet)

*Sasuke's thought's = aren't instant.

.So basically in order for sasuke to use the technique he first needs to analyze the situation and decide whether or not to use it. This however doesn't mean that sasuke's reflexes suck, rather it's the other way around think about it : In the first example with that Hawk, sasuke analyzed the situation decided that using a summon would be better, the reason behind this is that he had just been teleported to some unknown location and had to save Both himself and Naruto at the same, so what would happen had he teleported randomly ? Without proper knowledge of his surroundings, randomly teleporting around cloud lead to a disaster (falling into a trap for example).

In the second example, falling and being saved by Naruto : Sasuke actually didn't need Naruto's help, he was planning on using sasunoo to fly (bottom right panel) :

This is another example of his analytic abilities : Considering sasuanoo's size had he used it from the start, he would have smashed Naruto and friends against the cave's walls...

And in the last example when he teleported himself, he only did it after spending a while inside the cave (supposedly he should have a good understanding of his surrounding by that time, and Naruto being able to see him before he teleported has nothing to do with anything, it's the exact same thing with vergil actually : Each time he is about to TU he always makes the same "ready to jump" animation. So both teleportations are delayed in way, but that doesn't make them any less instantaneous.

Even with the Kaguya scan, she may be able to cancel out their jutsu by touching them but even then if it was perfectly instant she shouldn't even have the time to touch him in the first place, dimensional warping or not, she hasn't exhibited a speed so great that it is beyond their combat speed. The only explanation is that it came from his blind spot and if that is the case then that is a massive weakness in your survival plan as well because Dante could also attack from behind with air trick + QS. He shouldn't have to run or dodge or do anything to avoid getting tagged but he doesn't use it like that. Maybe it's WiS (writer doing it for dramatic flair), maybe it's CiS (Sasuke not being used to using it like that or just choosing not to) but whatever the reason he hasn't exhibited perfect instant teleportation or instant activation of his teleportation which is what he needs to survive this blitz otherwise it's not much better than Vergil's Trick-Up.

Here again you are confusing things, Kaguya and Dante are two completely difference cases. Kaguya uses dimensions to travel, which means that she doesn't have to physically travel the distance between her starting point and and them to touch Naruto and sasuke. Dante on the other hand uses speed to physically travel that same distance, this is significantly different because :

1)Sasuke has already reacted to a blitz from someone massively faster than him attacking his blind spot (thanks to sharingan move reading) :

I'm sure that you remember how much faster than Sasuke KN0 was (in case you don't go back to my first post), the only reason sasuke was keeping up was because of his sharingan, and KN1 >> KN0 so you can guess how much of a speed difference there is here.

So why couldn't he react to Kaguya ? Because she was basically teleporting (by moving through dimensions). Sasuke had no way of knowing she would appear behind him, unlike with Dante where his sharingan will predict how he will move (even if he is faster). Sure, this also means that Vergil who is teleporting will do the same as kaguya right ? More or less actually, Sasuke can't predict Vergil's teleportation but Vergil doesn't have QS so this sends us to my very first post explaining the difference between movement speed and combat speed.... and this assuming vergil survives the Bijuu bombs to start with (He won't IMO)

The Below scans from left to right:

• Sasuke summoning his hawk showing his lack of flight and lack of the use of his ability to teleport to saftey, i posit because it isn't truly instant.
• Sasuke using Naruto's technique to stay afloat again representing his lack of flight.

Sasuke grabbing naruto's leg to avoid falling into the lava after using his Teleportation.

Are you... implying that sasuke doesn't have flight ? Why when he was clearly using his sasunoo to fly in three different occasions including this one :

I'm afraid those are your personal interpretations of what happened (and a bit of unintentional a downplay). I could give you different interpretation such as :

• Sasuke summoning the hawk instead of telepoting, was because he wanted to save chakra.
• Sasuke using Naruto's technique instead of summoning susanoo is a proof that he wanted to save his energy.
• Once again, sasuke grabbed Naruto's leg aftre his teleportation, was to avoid wasting energy teleporting again. and in case you didn't notice Sasuke teleoprted behind Naruto to stop hims since he was pushed by Kaguya.

As a matter of fact, there are quite a few moments in DMC that I too can interpret the way I see fit such as :

• skip to 0:34 : Both Dante and vergil are trying to reach Force edge as fast as possible. Despite that Vergil doesn't use his teleportation to cross the distance but instead rolls, on the other hand Dante too doesn't use his Dash move to reach the sword and doesn't Use QS to slow time when vergil rolled : This proves that Vergil's teleportation isn't instant, and that Dante can't use QS when he wants.
• Skip to 7:00 : While vergil decides to throw himself from the hill, Dante tries to stop him but doesn't use his AT nor does he use QS to reach Vergil, this further proves that Dante can't use his trickster moves at will and can't use QS freely.

• Skip to 5:44, Vergil gets attacked by jester but doesn't use his teleoprtation to phase through the attack or even dodge. This once again confirms that Vergil can't teleport at will, or phase through attacks.
• Skip to 6:35 : Dante clearly sees jester attacking but doesn't use Royal guard or trickster moves to defend himself, this proves he can't use them when needed.
• Skip to 8:38 Arkaham dodges both Dante and vergil's attacks before blitzing them. this proves that Vergil's teleportation is very limited in speed or can't be used at will, same for Dante's trickster.

• Against the savior, Dante didn't use QS to slow time, Trickster to dodge, or Royal guard to counter. He simply relied on rebellion and his brute strength to stop the attack, this further proves that Dante can't use QS and trickster at will, and that Royal guard can defend against all attack. suggesting that saviors punch > Max blocking ability of royal guard, in which case Dante should also be unable to block a Bijuu dama.

Now do I believe any of this ? Not in the slightest, both your points and mine are personal interpretations derived from low end feats... Sure you can insist we use assumptions backed by low end feats, but what would be the point ? We would only end up ruining both our teams image for nothing....

As for Naruto Flying, using a combination of Air tricks, Trick-ups, Enemy Steps , Air Hike , Star Shooters, (lateral Air hikes Dante has) and bullet rains Dante and Virgil working together should be able to stay airborne and be very mobile (not as mobile as true flight obviously lol) indefinitely but this is again pushing it, just food for thought.

This wouldn't work, Naruto can simply fly further and further away, while dante can only use this combination a single time (note that it would also leave him open for Amaterasu or BB).

Amaterartsu is certainly a threat but it can be avoided and blocked (Gaara was able to react to it with his sand Sheild) and if Sasuke Dies the effects end. BBs we have agreed Dante can Royal Gaurd and while I don't think I'll have convinced you Virgil has a method of avoiding them I believe he does.

Actually dante has no way to dodge an attack he has no idea is even coming. And Gaara didn't block amaterasu, it was sasuke who blocked Gaara's sand with Amaterasu. Furthermore Gaara =/= Dante, gaara uses sand, Dante uses... his hands to block (bad idea when you are dealing with Amaterasu see raikage's case). Besides Amaterasu has nothing to do with Sasuke living or dieing, it will continue to burn for 7day and 7 nights (unless sasuke decides to extinguish it).

And sure I agreed how Dante cloud block a few BB, but that doesn't mean he can keep on blocking, especially if Naruto uses the timing strategy I previously posted.

Geez I may have posted too much. Anyway this really hinges on how instant Sasuke's activation oh his teleportation is. If really is instant activation being basically reflex speed then he won't get blitzed (unless coming from behind negates his chances to react in which case he can still get blitzed) but if it isn't at reflex speed as I posit it isn't then he will get blitzed regardless. I definetely think it is a much closer fight than when I first came in to the thread so kudos for that but I'm just not convinced that Dante can't blitz either of them. I'll change again, first from 10/10 to 6-7/10 and now I'm thinking something as narrows as 5.5/10 all because of your arguing but with the Air Trick + QS blitz in place Dante is a monster MVP in this fight.

I too was thinking that a 5.5 ratio would seem about right, expect in Naruto teams favor actually.

Anyway, this has been an enjoyable debate but I think I'll stop here. So let me thank you again for being objective and open minded, you have no idea how rare people like you are becoming in here lol

I hope you will enjoy your stay in here, and Goodbye for now.

@kuja9001: bangle of time IS canon as it is in the First game. anyway in dmc3 Dante is able to Control Time at the snap of a finger but he doesn't exactly have full control over his powers. in Dmc1 he is more fully in control of his abilities so following the time-line yes Dante is better at manipulating time and surpasses sparda who can solo these ninjas in a sneeze. then in DMC4 he is just a complete badass and shows off his regeneration factor a lot and by this time he doesn't even need his Devil trigger against most enemies. and saying that His max block abilities are better than royal guard is void because Royal guard Blocks EVERYTHING allowing dante to take 0 damage everytime.. now in DMC2.... THIS is where dante is invinicible..... in the other games it was all based off his royal guard and he had a regeration factor that was semi instant and could tank mortal wounds with no visible injury such as getting cut in half... but in dmc2 dante's majin form is invinicible and after this no attack will work on him... Dante has all surpassed sparda by entire leagues now and has taken on hordes of more powerful demons in the chaos portal than naruto's weak clones that have shown to have the durability of 5-10 hits which would instantly be blinded and disintegrated by dante's million stab. Dreadnaught will also make him invinicible and in the manga he used dreadnaught instead of his raw strength to tank a hit from the savior with no damage at all... so yes dante by then is very invincible and i think he should be banned because he really shouldn't have to be downgraded the way he is...

And also If Dante ever did face asura (because i know hes on darkstalkers levels here.) he could basically royal guard asura's hits and im not saying dante would win either (being that asura has destroyed planets face reality manipulators, time manipulators, and galaxy busters) but with dante in his majin form nothing asura did would work... and asura isnt invincible either hes only immortal but i call that a stalemate with majin on but with majin off... whole different story.

@evilryux2fold: Are you freaking kidding me? Asura would not stalemate ANY form of Dante. He'd demolish him! This is a guy that literally endangers the life of whatever planet he is on when he fights.

Now I KNOW your a fanboy because that was absolutely ridiculous!

the whole majin form is very limited, you'd need to be in critical conditions to pull that off, and it drains th DT gauge faster than it normally does, yes you become invincible for a while and attacks increase dramatically but i highly doubt that dante could take asura head on but thats besides the point, i dont want to derail from the whole main topic here.

@nyas: I forgot about this thread. After reading through the arguments we made and some more recent chapters just wanted to make a few points even though we pretty much finished our debate.

I'm willing to concede that is fully instant but it doesn't seem to be real instant movement, it's spacial swapping.

He says it's instant himself and I'm willing to take Sasuke on his word, so i was wrong on that point.

But the new chapters reveal 3 pretty big weaknesses to the ability that don't make it truly viable for stopping a blitz.

1. It's swapping not instant movement, which means he is limited in when he can dodge with it to a degree. He could set it up before hand with an item or switch places with Dante Himself or Vergil. Setting it up though implies he knew the blitz was gonna heppen before it did which is unlikely. Switching with Naruto get's Naruto killed. Switching with Vergil is his best bet, but the other two flaws deal with that.

2. It has a max range. meaning if he is separated from Naruto, or Dante runs ahead to blitz his options become severely limited. It's a pretty big flaw to be honest. BUt since the fight takes place in a city he could potentially if he is fast enough in his thoughts pick another item that is sitting around.

But this is the biggest flaw.

3. It seems to have a recharge time, which explains why I thought he wasn't using it instantly in the situation i mention earlier in the thread. He still couldn't use it but for a different reason. But It's really a huge flaw. If he uses it once to save himself or naruto he literally can't stop Dante from blitzing him or Naruto again.

Neither of us could have known this at the time when we were debating it though so it's kinda moot, just pointing it out since the thread got bumped.

@cerberus369616: You just had to bump this didn't you ? lol

1. It's swapping not instant movement, which means he is limited in when he can dodge with it to a degree. He could set it up before hand with an item or switch places with Dante Himself or Vergil. Setting it up though implies he knew the blitz was gonna heppen before it did which is unlikely. Switching with Naruto get's Naruto killed. Switching with Vergil is his best bet, but the other two flaws deal with that.

I already knew it was swapping places, and if your read some of my older posts you will notice that I used "warp places" (which is basically the same as swapping places) in fact I even mentioned that he should use it to warp places with one of them to cause "friendly fire" so this chapter really didn't change much (in fact it helped my point since it's now confirmed as instant). However you say that he has to "set it up" ? I'm not sure I get what this means, and where did you get this from ?

2. It has a max range. meaning if he is separated from Naruto, or Dante runs ahead to blitz his options become severely limited. It's a pretty big flaw to be honest. BUt since the fight takes place in a city he could potentially if he is fast enough in his thoughts pick another item that is sitting around.

The max range was also known a while back, remember that Madara himself stated so ever since the very first chapter the jutsu was used. So again nothing new here, besides just because it has a "limited" range doesn't mean it's a "short" range, and I don't see Naruto getting separated from sasuke thanks to clones.

3. It seems to have a recharge time, which explains why I thought he wasn't using it instantly in the situation i mention earlier in the thread. He still couldn't use it but for a different reason. But It's really a huge flaw. If he uses it once to save himself or naruto he literally can't stop Dante from blitzing him or Naruto again.

I'll disagree with the recharge time however, what you seem to forget is that sasuke has been abusing this ability for a while now and it seems to be pretty chakra taxing (this is confirmed by how he was closing his rinnegan when madara was in kamui dimension to save chakra). Furthermore It's heavily implied that he further exhausted himself trying to get out of Kaguya dimension (probably using this ability) :

So rather than a "recharge time" I think the main issue is number of usages (we might need to wait a few more chapters to confirm how it actually works).

Still, I'll stick to my previous plan of flight and BD before the twins could get in range.

Dante and Vergil.

@nyas: lol I didn't bump it , some one else did :p

What i mean is it seems to be "strictly" swapping places though. I know you said he could use it to swap before but it means he has to have something to swap with rather than just being able to do it, which is why he used Sakura's vest. It hadn't been mentioned as such before.

I don't recall Madara mentioning, just stating he was beginning to figure it out, it but I'll take your word for it. Difference is the chapter gives us a pretty good idea of the rang of the technique, it seems to be about 30 yards ,give or take, since we see Sasuke having to run to get into range in the chapter and it's gotta pretty good landscape and distance shot.

And the reason I think it is a recharge thing rather than a Chackra thing is the wording, he says "...Ocular power isn't ready yet." If it was a chackra issue he'd probably say he can't or he's too tired or doesn't have the stamina to do it.

But i'll give up here lol, wasn't trying to restart the debate.

Emosuke and Narubrat get slaughtered.

@cerberus369616:

What i mean is it seems to be "strictly" swapping places though. I know you said he could use it to swap before but it means he has to have something to swap with rather than just being able to do it, which is why he used Sakura's vest. It hadn't been mentioned as such before.

Trust me I already knew this, and took it all into consideration, I even stated that Sasuke has to warp places with something in another thread a month back : (Post 488)

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/off-topic-5/the-naruto-thread-chapter-682-never-before-seen-is-1532658/?page=10

I don't recall Madara mentioning, just stating he was beginning to figure it out, it but I'll take your word for it. Difference is the chapter gives us a pretty good idea of the rang of the technique, it seems to be about 30 yards ,give or take, since we see Sasuke having to run to get into range in the chapter and it's gotta pretty good landscape and distance shot.

Here you go for Madara :

I wouldn't use that instance to measure the distance, truth be told that's wild guess... To me it looks like he was planning on running all the way but once he got close enough he noticed Sakura's vest and decided to use that instead.

This can be confirmed by the instance where he moved Madara, if you look closely you will notice that Sasuke teleported Madara from a distance larger than the one he used in the last chapter, so it wouldn't make sense for him to keep running if he knew he was in range... unless he wasn't planning on warping because he had nothing to use for swapping before noticing the vest (which IMO is what happened)

Gallery

And the reason I think it is a recharge thing rather than a Chackra thing is the wording, he says "...Ocular power isn't ready yet." If it was a chackra issue he'd probably say he can't or he's too tired or doesn't have the stamina to do it.

That's translation related actually, in another version he says "My eye still doesn't work" :

Making it sound like he has a usage limit.

But i'll give up here lol, wasn't trying to restart the debate.

Yeah me too, I guess we can agree to disagree. :)

It doesn't seem like anyone is reading anyway lol

The brothers.

One thing though, Is this Dante in DMC3 form? cuz Dante could speedblitz them beyond that version.

Dante + Vergil win with so much easy. Dante's styles and ability with his weapons, plus Vergil's style and weapons make this a very easy choice. And when I say style I'm reffering to DMC3 and 4 styles which adds extra abilities.

And that pic of Dante and Vergil looks so sh*t...

@dygoboy

that should do it.

I'm going to say Dante and Virgil. From my memory Dante was already able to dodge lightning at his base stats. Throwing in his DT and time manipulating abilities the demon brothers should take it.

Naruto and Sasuke flight high into the atmosphere far out of Virgil and Dante's reach and nuke them

Sasuke looks at Virgil and Dante and seals them both in Chibaku Tensei with their own Power. Also when Naruto and Sasuke get hurt by basic weapons everyone is trying to say. They are not being used by normal humans. They are being used by Chakra Enhanced shinobi that can vastly increase their strength and speed and enhance techniques with different energy types through Chakra. Not to mention with the special types of material they make their weapons with using enchantments. Unique Metals to utilize Chakra weapons(Asume Chakra Blades).

Durability: Naruto and Sasuke survived falling from atmosphere on their necks. And with their Special powers survived A Planetary Explosion. Indra Arrow vs Rasen Shurikens. Sasuke had the Bijuu power in him and stalemated Naruto who threw the entire planets Energy capacity at Sasuke.

Speed: Minato who was the benchmark of speed. His shunshin was light speed being stated to resemble a flash of light. Shunshin is beyond Physical speed( which are still higher than humans) Chakra Enhanced speed(Upper Tier Meta Human) and shunshin a jutsu that lets you cross great distances in a blink of an eye. Sasuke and Naruto surpassed that speed...Naruto did first. But Sasuke surpassed even him being able to blitz Naruto during their fight. Not to mention Sasuke's Space Time jutsu able to traverse Great distances w/o time passing by swapping his location with a space or a object instantly

Dante and Virgil dont have the fire power, speed, or strength to deal with Naruto and Sasuke. Especially with Rinnegan abilities patched onto Sasuke lol. Ghost Realms Absorbs Chakra and Energy. Human Realm rips out souls and absorbs life force..

Naruto and Sasuke have tier Speed and strength. Naruto is 100 Ton strenth in his base SM showing.

Sasuke Space time ability w/ Manga and Databook info. It allows him to instantly swap places in a certain range. He is able to increase that Range with swapping a physical Object. He can also focus on an object and warp it to himself. The Databook states an target object and the manga shows him doing it with just space and in some feilds space is indeed an object not a physical one though. Sasuke's Space time travelling is indeed instant. Though how he forms it he must focus on the object or space to warp to it though. But beware. Sasuke swap places instantly and moved backwards w/o focusing with his eyes within his range and used it faster than Madara Raining down Natural Lightning on him. So w/ a technique that allows him to change spaces instantly. We know that Sasuke can activate the technique literally lightning fast.

Alot of people don't understand the range of Narutoverse powers with their Chakra. They can do insane feats with Chakra. Thing is they have to prep and mold chakra for techniques. Its why Juubito is able to anticipate Amaterasu by sensing the Chakra build up and countering the technique. Its the same thing with the Faster than light shunshin they are capable of. While they are generally Meta Human level attributes in their base physical stats, and can increase it with their chakra strength to enhance their attributes. They have to prep chakra to used said abilities such as shunshin that allows them to move in a blink of an eye up to and abit faster than the speed of light. Which is why you don't see Naruto characters zipping around like that. Now their also reaction speed that plays a role. You need either high teir sensing or Hax Doujutsu to react that those levels in which both Naruto and Sasuke both have in their own respect.

I think that should help better understand narutoverse for people who are not up to speed.

Dante and Vergil

With speed equalized, Naruto and Sasuke fly up into the atmosphere and nuke Team Sparda into oblivion, and or seal them.

I don't see Dante surviving a barrage of up to 9,000 island-country level bijuu bombs (Naruto can make up to 1,000 shadow clones, each of which can make 9), all the while Sasuke is mind raping and spamming Ameratsu.

Dante and Virgil

I wish i Had my pc so i could put a picture of myself face palming. The Sparda boys still have a lot of versatility. They take This.

Dante has appeared in Shin Megami Tensei and demonished the Demifiend in combat Dante pwns so hard it's not even funny. Beating the demifiend puts him at complex multiverse levels of destruction and durability BTW so narutards don't even try to argue that Naruto's on the same level.

Naruto and Sasuke

Wasn't this thread made before the Sage amp? I'm pretty sure these versions would get stomped.

Naruto and Sasuke stomp. DMC fanboys are losing to Narutards everyday.

Naruto and Sasuke.

Dante and Vergil.

Bump. Naruto and Sasuke stomp, let the DMC wank continue.

bump

Dante and Vergil Wins.

-Instant regeneration.

-SuperHuman strength (Dante blocked the fist of the savior and had enough strength to push it back)

-SuperHuman speed.

-SuperHuman durability.

-Superhuman senses.

-Immunity to spirtual attacks.

-DT transformation.

What else should i say?

Oh yes, Genjutsu only works on the naruto verse characters since they possess chakra. And Chakra was given to the naruto verse by Hogromo. And we knows that the genjutsu consists in manipulating the flow of chakra in the opponent's body to affect its Five Senses and Dante and Vergil doesn't have Chakra.

@zokologue: Naruto or sasuke solo mismatch

Genjutsu has been shown to affect people without chakra multiple times by kaguya before any one in their verse had chakra

Both ninjas outclasses Dante in all those categories u mentioned above

Then kishimoto is contradicting himself, which means that naruto is a shitty anime. That won't be the first time, since she used the infinite tsukoyomi without the moon...Man! "Tsukoyomi" means "moon reader", so she used an attacked based on the moon without the moon.

Kaguya is a rabbit godess or something like that, nothing comparable to sasuke or naruto.

Unless Kaguya gave them chakra before putting them into her genjutsu before using her technique on the tree because the tree hunts people with chakra on them.

Without chakra u can't use genjutsu and to stop the genjutsu you must stop your flow of chakra

Also, the sage of six path shared his chakra with everybody, that's how he created the Ninshuu. So people already had chakra in that timeline.

-And your other points. No, dante and vergil are superior to naruto and sasuke on every categories.

How much do you know about dante and vergil, honestly? Without looking on wikipedia or on vsbattles.wikia.com