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#1 Edited by SkySanji (3509 posts) - - Show Bio
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Round 1: Hyouzou with and without energy pills/steroids

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Round 2: Hody/Hordy Jones with and without energy pills/steroids

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Round 3: Monet(Sanji has no chivalry)

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Final Round: Pica

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Let me know if I missed anyone

Run 1: Sanji gets no rest in between matches

Run 2: Sanji gets rest in between matches

I will do one with Zoro fighting Sanji's enemies next.

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#3 Posted by AlexTheBoss (15835 posts) - - Show Bio

Round 1: stops at Pica

Round 2: clears

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#4 Posted by EmperorThanos- (15625 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't think he has enough to take down Pica. Based on his showings so far.

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#5 Posted by Hey_Thatsmildlyadequate (1364 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm not sure if he really has any effective means of taking on Pica, but if he's able to find his true body he can arguably clear both rounds

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#6 Edited by SocaJunkie (7886 posts) - - Show Bio

Sanji can’t beat Pica but the stone golem isn’t the problem, it’s the fact that he doesn’t have the feats of damaging a user of FBH and Pica was confident Zoro couldn’t pierce his Haki despite just seeing him butcher his small mountain sized golem so it’s confirmed that Pica’s FBH is much more durable than the golem.

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#7 Posted by shirso (3494 posts) - - Show Bio

Beating Pica's DF specifically called for a swordsman. So Sanji can't beat him.

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#8 Posted by SkySanji (3509 posts) - - Show Bio
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#9 Posted by FaradaySloth (6611 posts) - - Show Bio

Stops at Pica both rounds

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#10 Posted by juiceboks (24547 posts) - - Show Bio

Yea he can't beat Pica

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#11 Posted by Sy8000 (34809 posts) - - Show Bio

Pica.

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#12 Posted by Pierpat (5777 posts) - - Show Bio

Stops hard at pica, he has not shown the damage output to destroy the golem or best his fullbody haki.

@skysanji: luffy has the feats og besting great haki users, like doflamingo, cracker and katakuri, how sanji does not, the only time sanji kicked a good haki user (vergo) he broke his leg

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#13 Posted by SkySanji (3509 posts) - - Show Bio

@pierpat: Fair enough but that was after Nami took an explosion in his body.

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#14 Posted by Pierpat (5777 posts) - - Show Bio

@skysanji: that kinda of excuses the leg breaking but it still leaves sanji with no feats that would justify him hurting fullbody haki pica

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#15 Posted by FlashingSabre (3588 posts) - - Show Bio

Clears high diff. With his CoO and raw speed Pica can't touch him, and Sanji can easily track him down and blitz him before he can shift through the golem.

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#16 Edited by SocaJunkie (7886 posts) - - Show Bio

So here's something worth thinking about:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

Doflamingo blocked Sanji's strongest barrage of kicks with his jacket, yet he needed CoA to block Luffy's Jet Gatling, we can infer that Sanji is weaker than Dressrosa G2 Luffy.

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#17 Edited by SkySanji (3509 posts) - - Show Bio

@socajunkie: Really? I think it's inconsistent since Sanji was matching Luffy's Gear 3rd attack

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Or you could argue Sanji got stronger since Dressrosa on some Enies Lobby random power up.

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#18 Edited by SocaJunkie (7886 posts) - - Show Bio

@skysanji:

really I think it's inconsistent since Sanji was matching Luffy's Gear 3rd attack

There isn't any evidence he was matching it, he just did a joint attack. He did a joint attack with Zoro against the Pacifista but the two didn't deal equal damage since cutting it in half is better than breaking its neck. If we look at Pre-TS examples of joint attacks, he also performed one against a Pacifista with G2 Luffy and Zoro, however we know that G2 Luffy is over twice as physically powerful as Zoro and Sanji based on Lucci's Douriki in relation to Kaku and Jabra. Additionally Zoro was injured and fatigued from taking Luffy's pain on Thriller Bark.

Or you could argue Sanji got stronger since Dressrosa on some Enies Lobby random power up.

There isn't any evidence for this I'm afraid.

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#19 Edited by SkySanji (3509 posts) - - Show Bio

@socajunkie said:

@skysanji:

really I think it's inconsistent since Sanji was matching Luffy's Gear 3rd attack

There isn't any evidence he was matching it, he just did a joint attack. He did a joint attack with Zoro against the Pacifista but the two didn't deal equal damage since cutting it in half is better than breaking its neck.

Well yeah Sanji focuses on Blunt force while Zoro focused on Piercing/Slashing I would expect Zoro to cut it in half and Sanji just to pummel it, same way Luffy would handle it And They Didn't Even Attack In The Same Area Unlike Luffy and Sanji

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But here we are talking about blunt force and blunt force enough and attacking in the same area it's clear that Sanji matched Luffy's attack:

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take aqua Laguna for example Luffy and Zoro matched each other's attack to make a hole through it Zoro even tells Luffy how much force hes gonna use I'll post the scene or Scans if you don't remember.

Or you could argue Sanji got stronger since Dressrosa on some Enies Lobby random power up.

There isn't any evidence for this I'm afraid.

I mean Dodging Katakuri's Jelly bean attack is something since he couldn't react to Doflamingo prior to Whole Cake Island, but why is this impressive well Katakuri saw where he would dodge using Future sight and he still dodged it

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"It's no use he gonna dodge it!"

"He dodged that too?!"

So his Observation Haki has gotten better at the very least.

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#20 Edited by SocaJunkie (7886 posts) - - Show Bio

@skysanji:

Well yeah Sanji focuses on Blunt force while Zoro focused on Piercing/Slashing I would expect Zoro to cut it in half and Sanji just to pummel it, same way Luffy would handle it

Yes, still doesn't mean equal force was put in, the main point is not to assume so just because it was a joint attack.

take aqua Laguna for example Luffy and Zoro matched each other's attack to make a hole through it Zoro even tells Luffy how much force hes gonna use I'll post the scene or Scans if you don't remember.

This doesn't help your case since all this would mean is Zoro was putting in equal force to base Luffy, Sanji and Luffy didn't have this chat.

But here we are talking about blunt force and blunt force enough and attacking in the same area it's clear that Sanji matched Luffy's attack:

Again, it isn't proof he's matching the attack just because it's joint.

I mean Dodging Katakuri's Jelly bean attack is something since he couldn't react to Doflamingo prior to Whole Cake Island, but why is this im

Impressive well Katakuri saw where he would dodge using Future sight and he still dodged it,

"It's no use he gonna dodge it!"

"He dodged that too?!"

So his Observation Haki has gotten better at the very least.

I don't mean to be constantly critical but I feel it's necessary for a discussion like this. This isn't proof his CoO got better as you'd have to prove Katakuri flicks jelly beans faster than Doflamingo's combat speed, which you cannot do. We know he flicks them at or above bullet speed based on the damage they deal so they're supersonic at most, nowhere near Doffy's combat speed.

Note I'm not talking about Katakuri's overall speed as it's enough to blitz Doffy, I'm just focusing on the speed at which he flicks his thumb.

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#21 Edited by SkySanji (3509 posts) - - Show Bio

@socajunkie: Okay yeah I gotchu but what about the Aqua Laguna example? And remember Luffy and Sanji are attacking the same area unlike the Sanji and Zoro vs. The Pacifista.

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#22 Posted by SocaJunkie (7886 posts) - - Show Bio

@skysanji: In that case they were putting in equal force as it's implied to be the case due to their exchange. However Luffy and Sanji didn't have the same 'This is how much effort I'm going to put in' dialogue and really even if I were to accept this, if you wanted to argue inconsistency then that would be the example, not Doflamingo's blocking, since it makes no sense for Sanji to go from being weaker than G2 to as powerful as G3 without an on or off panel power creep.

Additionally for more info of how we should treat joint attacks, see what I edited in to my first reply to you about the Pre-TS Pacifista example.

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#23 Edited by SkySanji (3509 posts) - - Show Bio

@socajunkie: We can't really use the Zoro taking in Luffy's pain since he was fine until after the combo attack and he didn't even use Ashura while Luffy and Sanji are using their power ups, he's using a 36 pound phoenix cannon of all things, you just said yourself that Luffy is above Sanji and Zoro even with Ashura, so we know for SURE Sanji and Luffy contributing way more than he did.

Here he is completely fine:

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Here is where he starts feeling the pain:

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And then they all use their powers up to finish it:

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#24 Posted by LimitlessSigil (2393 posts) - - Show Bio

Pika more than likely has superior COA to Sanji, aswell as having Full Body so I can't really see Sanji beating him. Pika's a bad match-up for him, Stops there imo.

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#25 Posted by SocaJunkie (7886 posts) - - Show Bio

@skysanji:

We can't really use the Zoro taking in Luffy's pain since he was fine until after the combo attack and he didn't even use Ashura while Luffy and Sanji are using their power ups, he's using a 36 pound phoenix cannon of all things, you just said yourself that Luffy is above Sanji and Zoro even with Ashura, so we know for SURE Sanji and Luffy contributing way more than he did.

This seems counter-intuitive since we know that he wasn't at 100% as his body is bandaged up and you bringing up that they contributed more than him argues against your own point of joint attacks being proof of equality.

Here he is completely fine:

Him being relatively fine in that state doesn't change that he wasn't at his normal levels, here you're implying he'd have performed the same in this situation as if he hadn't taken Luffy's pain and fatigue which is illogical.

And then they all use their powers up to finish it:

After Zoro started feeling the effects more prominently so it's clear that Asura wasn't equal to his normal level.

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#26 Edited by SkySanji (3509 posts) - - Show Bio

@socajunkie said:

@skysanji:

We can't really use the Zoro taking in Luffy's pain since he was fine until after the combo attack and he didn't even use Ashura while Luffy and Sanji are using their power ups, he's using a 36 pound phoenix cannon of all things, you just said yourself that Luffy is above Sanji and Zoro even with Ashura, so we know for SURE Sanji and Luffy contributing way more than he did.

This seems counter-intuitive since we know that he wasn't at 100% as his body is bandaged up and you bringing up that they contributed more than him argues against your own point of joint attacks being proof of equality.

I'll concede to the first point but the point I highlighted is different we know Luffy with Gears and Sanji with Diable Jambe is stronger than a Base Zoro so We KNOW for sure he didn't match their attacks while Luffy and Sanji vs. Big Mom an arguement can be made at the very least. Which is why I brought up him only using 36 pound cannon while Luffy and Sanji were using their Enies Lobby power ups

Here he is completely fine:

Him being relatively fine in that state doesn't change that he wasn't at his normal levels, here you're implying he'd have performed the same in this situation as if he hadn't taken Luffy's pain and fatigue which is illogical.

I'm not saying that at all, I'm saying he didn't even use Ashura anyway so he wasn't at Luffy or Sanji's level During The Monster Trio joint attack exchange and on top of that he didn't even use 72 pound cannon he instead opts out to use a 36 pound cannon or any attacks that I'm sure are stronger like Shishi sonson etc

And then they all use their powers up to finish it:

After Zoro started feeling the effects more prominently so it's clear that Asura wasn't equal to his normal level.

True Zoro was Feeling the pain but let's not act like Luffy and Sanji were at their best either, this isn't to take away from Zoro since clearly he was more hurt than them but Luffy and Sanji weren't at their best either, I mean Zoro couldn't even run while Luffy and SANJI could so I could see your point

The only reason why I'm arguing is because I feel like you think Zoro's Ashura is on a different Level than Sanji's Diable Jambe Pts at least when they both Oneshotted their enemies and Kaku's Douriki is only 10 or 20 more than Jyabura the difference is literally a marine soldier or 2 not only that but Zoro actuallly got Shusui which powered him up so yeah he was still fatigue but I feel like getting Shunsui kind of makes up for it, not saying he got Shunsui so he shouldn't be crying about his injuries just that He should be stronger than he was from Enies Lobby while Sanji and Luffy stayed the same.

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#27 Posted by SkySanji (3509 posts) - - Show Bio

@socajunkie: This is actually interesting it makes me wonder if Lucci can beat Zoro and Sanji or if Luffy can beat Kaku and Jyabura.

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#28 Edited by SocaJunkie (7886 posts) - - Show Bio

@skysanji:

I'll concede to the first point but the point I highlighted is different we know Luffy with Gears and Sanji with Diable Jambe is stronger than a Base Zoro so We KNOW for sure he didn't match their attacks

Yup.

while Luffy and Sanji vs. Big Mom an arguement can be made at the very least. Which is why I brought up him only using 36 pound cannon while Luffy and Sanji were using their Enies Lobby power ups

An argument can't really be made for it as there's nothing but conjecture, no proof and it wouldn't make any sense for Sanji to suddenly equal G3's output. It comes back to what I said of joint attacks not being evidence for equal power.

I'm not saying that at all, I'm saying he didn't even use Ashura anyway so he wasn't at Luffy or Sanji's level During The Monster Trio joint attack exchange and on top of that he didn't even use 72 pound cannon he instead opts out to use a 36 pound cannon or any attacks that I'm sure are stronger like Shishi sonson etc

Ah ok, yes and this ties into the first point you made in this response.

True Zoro was Feeling the pain but let's not act like Luffy and Sanji were at their best either, this isn't to take away from Zoro since clearly he was more hurt than them but Luffy and Sanji weren't at their best either, I mean Zoro couldn't even run while Luffy and SANJI could so I could see your point

They weren't at 100% either but compared to Zoro who had taken Luffy's pain and fatigue on top of his own, they were practically fresh. Let's not forget that Luffy was floating on air with euphoria at having his pain and fatigue removed.

The only reason why I'm arguing is because I feel like you think Zoro's Ashura is on a different Level than Sanji's Diable Jambe Pts at least when they both Oneshotted their enemies and Kaku's Douriki is only 10 or 20 more than Jyabura the difference is literally a marine soldier or 2 not only that but Zoro actuallly got Shusui which powered him up so yeah he was still fatigue but I feel like getting Shunsui kind of makes up for it, not saying he got Shunsui so he shouldn't be crying about his injuries just that He should be stronger than he was from Enies Lobby while Sanji and Luffy stayed the same.

Ok, this is all fair.

This is actually interesting it makes me wonder if Lucci can beat Zoro and Sanji or if Luffy can beat Kaku and Jyabura.

In raw stats on paper they definitely can.

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#29 Posted by Enemybird (5081 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't see him getting past Roided Hody.

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#30 Posted by SocaJunkie (7886 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't see him getting past Roided Hody.

Hody was weaker than base Luffy.

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#31 Posted by Enemybird (5081 posts) - - Show Bio

@enemybird said:

I don't see him getting past Roided Hody.

Hody was weaker than base Luffy.

Was roided Hody weaker than base Luffy? I thought it took an elephant gatling to finish him.

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#32 Posted by SkySanji (3509 posts) - - Show Bio

@enemybird: It was to finish the Noah in the manga at least it only took an Elephant Gun then they announced Hody was finally defeated everything afterwards was to destroy Noah.

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#33 Edited by SocaJunkie (7886 posts) - - Show Bio

@enemybird said:
@socajunkie said:

Hody was weaker than base Luffy.

Was roided Hody weaker than base Luffy? I thought it took an elephant gatling to finish him.

Final roided Hody? Yes, he was getting ragdolled by base Luffy and could react to but not dodge snake shot. The playing field was only relatively evened when Hody was in the sea and Luffy was nerfed via being forced to fight in the bubble, then Luffy had to use Red Hawk however this won't factor in to this fight as they'll default have it out on land.

It did take an Elephant Gatling to put Hody down however the speed gap between he and Sanji is so silly that Sanji will eventually get the job done over time, since Hody isn't landing hits.

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#34 Posted by Enemybird (5081 posts) - - Show Bio

@enemybird said:
@socajunkie said:

Hody was weaker than base Luffy.

Was roided Hody weaker than base Luffy? I thought it took an elephant gatling to finish him.

Final roided Hody? Yes, he was getting ragdolled by base Luffy and could react to but not dodge snake shot. The playing field was only relatively evened when Hody was in the sea and Luffy was nerfed via being forced to fight in the bubble, then Luffy had to use Red Hawk however this won't factor in to this fight as they'll default have it out on land.

It did take an Elephant Gatling to put Hody down however the speed gap between he and Sanji is so silly that Sanji will eventually get the job done over time, since Hody isn't landing hits.

Hody Jones underwent two transformations. He was ragdolled in the first roided transformation but the second is the one that was above bubbled base Luffy. He took some serious hits from Luffy. Yes...they were not fully powered and yes Hody was further enhanced by being in water but taking a red hawk from any version of Luffy is a very respectable feat when we are talking about someone at Lanji's level.

I will give the speed to Sanji on land which is helped even more by observation Haki. but its going to be hard for him to take down Hody with his showings if at all. I also have doubts about Sanji's durability post timeksikp. I think its still debatable.

I cant go scan hunting but here you go for now.

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#35 Posted by shirso (3494 posts) - - Show Bio

@skysanji said:

@shirso: So Luffy can't beat Pica?

No. We kinda saw it in Dressrosa. Luffy would reduce the golem to rubble and Pica would just escape.

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#36 Posted by SocaJunkie (7886 posts) - - Show Bio

@enemybird:

That last transformation in the water is anime only.

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#37 Posted by BlackLegRaph (5357 posts) - - Show Bio

Sanji clears. I don't see him having any issue smashing through the golem.

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#38 Posted by Thenewguysnm1 (7483 posts) - - Show Bio

In the grand scheme of things sanji is fodder

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#39 Posted by DeathHero61 (18493 posts) - - Show Bio

@skysanji said:

@socajunkie: Really? I think it's inconsistent since Sanji was matching Luffy's Gear 3rd attack

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Or you could argue Sanji got stronger since Dressrosa on some Enies Lobby random power up.

Attacking the same opponent doesn't mean he's matching. By that logic all the strawhats are equal.

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#40 Posted by Enemybird (5081 posts) - - Show Bio

@enemybird:

That last transformation in the water is anime only.

Didn't realize that. After taking a quick look at the fight in the manga. Looks like Hody's feats are still practically the same from that moment onward. He still managed to keep fighting after a red hawk and it took gear 3 to stop him. I personally haven't seen enough from Sanji to assume he can match those techniques. Is Sanji faster on land...sure. Is that enough to get him the win? I lean towards no. We've seen Sanji get his leg broken by people that Law can one shot. we know that in terms of haki Luffy>Doffy>Law> Vergo. If Hody can take a haki embedded attack from Luffy while Sanji get his leg broken by someone several tiers down from Luffy. I just cant give Sanji the benefit of the doubt anymore. The only redeemable feat I can think of is the clash with Daifuku's genie. But I don't know how to rank him, honestly. We saw him cut several ships in half against Carrot but we've seen feats like that from vice admirals.

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#41 Edited by SocaJunkie (7886 posts) - - Show Bio

@enemybird said:

Didn't realize that. After taking a quick look at the fight in the manga. Looks like Hody's feats are still practically the same from that moment onward. He still managed to keep fighting after a red hawk and it took gear 3 to stop him. I personally haven't seen enough from Sanji to assume he can match those techniques.

The Red Hawk wasn't at full power since it was partially delivered underwater but the G3 showing is a very good feat of durability. However Sanji doesn't need to match them at once or even in prolonged periods of short duration, he will eventually put Hody down via attrition and he is so much faster he won't have to worry about getting hit.

Is Sanji faster on land...sure. Is that enough to get him the win? I lean towards no. We've seen Sanji get his leg broken by people that Law can one shot. we know that in terms of haki Luffy>Doffy>Law> Vergo. If Hody can take a haki embedded attack from Luffy while Sanji get his leg broken by someone several tiers down from Luffy. I just cant give Sanji the benefit of the doubt anymore.

Sanji had his body heavily damaged by Nami when she was soul switched with him, Caesar's explosion put his body in a much more fragile state as Usopp noted in chapter 678. So contextually speaking, having his leg fractured by Vergo isn't a low showing.

The only redeemable feat I can think of is the clash with Daifuku's genie. But I don't know how to rank him, honestly. We saw him cut several ships in half against Carrot but we've seen feats like that from vice admirals.

Sanji blitzes Hody and has all the time in the world to put him down. Saying it's Vice Admiral level isn't an argument for Hody as he's done nothing to be put on Vice Admiral tier aside from his durability showings. The burning damage Sanji delivers will also be amplified because they're on land.

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#42 Posted by Enemybird (5081 posts) - - Show Bio

@enemybird said:

Didn't realize that. After taking a quick look at the fight in the manga. Looks like Hody's feats are still practically the same from that moment onward. He still managed to keep fighting after a red hawk and it took gear 3 to stop him. I personally haven't seen enough from Sanji to assume he can match those techniques.

The Red Hawk wasn't at full power since it was partially delivered underwater but the G3 showing is a very good feat of durability. However Sanji doesn't need to match them at once or even in prolonged periods of short duration, he will eventually put Hody down via attrition and he is so much faster he won't have to worry about getting hit.

Is Sanji faster on land...sure. Is that enough to get him the win? I lean towards no. We've seen Sanji get his leg broken by people that Law can one shot. we know that in terms of haki Luffy>Doffy>Law> Vergo. If Hody can take a haki embedded attack from Luffy while Sanji get his leg broken by someone several tiers down from Luffy. I just cant give Sanji the benefit of the doubt anymore.

Sanji had his body heavily damaged by Nami when she was soul switched with him, Caesar's explosion put his body in a much more fragile state as Usopp noted in chapter 678. So contextually speaking, having his leg fractured by Vergo isn't a low showing.

The only redeemable feat I can think of is the clash with Daifuku's genie. But I don't know how to rank him, honestly. We saw him cut several ships in half against Carrot but we've seen feats like that from vice admirals.

Sanji blitzes Hody and has all the time in the world to put him down. Saying it's Vice Admiral level isn't an argument for Hody as he's done nothing to be put on Vice Admiral tier aside from his durability showings. The burning damage Sanji delivers will also be amplified because they're on land.

You don't have to be as fast as someone to tag them. There are plenty of examples of slower characters clashing with faster ones. Doflamingo vs Law/ Carrot vs Zoro / Sanji vs Judge / Luffy vs Blueno / Marco vs Kizaru and the list goes on. Sanji will no doubt get more and consistent hits. But Hody has the durability advantage on his side against a Character significantly stronger than Sanji. He is also pretty fast (under water ) is there any reason to think his reaction speed slows down that much on land? You seem to be under the impression that Sanji is untouchable in this fight. I agreed that he was faster but... so fast to never be tagged? We will just have to agree to disagree on this one.

What feats does Sanji even have to suggest that he can outlast Hody in a battle of attrition? Hody is a tank and his defense feats puts him over anything Sanji has produced. We know Luffy's redhawk was weaker but how much weaker? 10%, 50% 90%? idk. The nuance is important but its impossible to quantify.

Sanji's body was weakened by an explosion to the point where Vergo broke his bones without haki. Is that supposed to be an argument for or against Sanji? This is supposed to be a battle of attrition. Its still low showing.

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#43 Edited by SocaJunkie (7886 posts) - - Show Bio

@enemybird:

You don't have to be as fast as someone to tag them. There are plenty of examples of slower characters clashing with faster ones. Doflamingo vs Law/ Carrot vs Zoro / Sanji vs Judge / Luffy vs Blueno / Marco vs Kizaru and the list goes on.

The difference here being everyone you just listed is in the same general speed tier as the other, Hody is not in the same speed tier as Sanji, he wasn't just getting blitzed by base Luffy, on land at times he could not see him move.

Sanji will no doubt get more and consistent hits. But Hody has the durability advantage on his side against a Character significantly stronger than Sanji. He is also pretty fast (under water ) is there any reason to think his reaction speed slows down that much on land?

Not sure what you're arguing here, Hody couldn't perceive base Luffy so his reaction speed isn't good enough for Sanji.

You seem to be under the impression that Sanji is untouchable in this fight. I agreed that he was faster but... so fast to never be tagged? We will just have to agree to disagree on this one.

Yes, completely untouchable to Hody as feats show and he has CoO on top of that.

What feats does Sanji even have to suggest that he can outlast Hody in a battle of attrition? Hody is a tank and his defense feats puts him over anything Sanji has produced. We know Luffy's redhawk was weaker but how much weaker? 10%, 50% 90%? idk. The nuance is important but its impossible to quantify.

Hody has no heat resistance feats on land to suggest he can take a prolonged beating of Diable Jambe and the fact that he isn't going to get any hits in means he loses in a battle of attrition.

Sanji's body was weakened by an explosion to the point where Vergo broke his bones without haki. Is that supposed to be an argument for or against Sanji? This is supposed to be a battle of attrition. Its still low showing.

I'm baffled by your stance here, you acknowledge the context of his body being weakened then in the next sentence you pretend it isn't a factor and go on to call it a 'low showing' can you explain this logic to me? Sanji's body was in a more fragile state so contextually speaking it isn't a low showing. And no, he was using un-coated Haki or Tekkai, as Sanji notes his body is like iron.

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#44 Posted by Enemybird (5081 posts) - - Show Bio

@enemybird:

You don't have to be as fast as someone to tag them. There are plenty of examples of slower characters clashing with faster ones. Doflamingo vs Law/ Carrot vs Zoro / Sanji vs Judge / Luffy vs Blueno / Marco vs Kizaru and the list goes on.

The difference here being everyone you just listed is in the same general speed tier as the other, Hody is not in the same speed tier as Sanji, he wasn't just getting blitzed by base Luffy, on land at times he could not see him move.

Sanji will no doubt get more and consistent hits. But Hody has the durability advantage on his side against a Character significantly stronger than Sanji. He is also pretty fast (under water ) is there any reason to think his reaction speed slows down that much on land?

Not sure what you're arguing here, Hody couldn't perceive base Luffy so his reaction speed isn't good enough for Sanji.

You seem to be under the impression that Sanji is untouchable in this fight. I agreed that he was faster but... so fast to never be tagged? We will just have to agree to disagree on this one.

Yes, completely untouchable to Hody as feats show and he has CoO on top of that.

What feats does Sanji even have to suggest that he can outlast Hody in a battle of attrition? Hody is a tank and his defense feats puts him over anything Sanji has produced. We know Luffy's redhawk was weaker but how much weaker? 10%, 50% 90%? idk. The nuance is important but its impossible to quantify.

Hody has no heat resistance feats on land to suggest he can take a prolonged beating of Diable Jambe and the fact that he isn't going to get any hits in means he loses in a battle of attrition.

Sanji's body was weakened by an explosion to the point where Vergo broke his bones without haki. Is that supposed to be an argument for or against Sanji? This is supposed to be a battle of attrition. Its still low showing.

I'm baffled by your stance here, you acknowledge the context of his body being weakened then in the next sentence you pretend it isn't a factor and go on to call it a 'low showing' can you explain this logic to me? Sanji's body was in a more fragile state so contextually speaking it isn't a low showing. And no, he was using un-coated Haki or Tekkai, as Sanji notes his body is like iron.

I'll try to make it short and sweet. I will also attempt to clarify my stance on Sanji vs Hody Jones.

Luffy is completely out of Sanji's league. Honestly, Luffy vs Sanji to me is as big of a mismatch as Luffy vs Colby pre timeskip.

For that reason, anybody who Luffy has to use his gears to defeat is by extension leagues above Sanji. Thats as simple as I can put it. Sanji is not strong enough to put Hody Down. He has land speed on Hody but that's it. Hody is going to tank Sanji's hits. He simply hasn't shown the feats that led me to believe he can do it.

In Luffy's BASE. he tanked what is probably Sanji's strongest attack without even using haki or trying to block. Yes, It knocked him down but Luffy stood right back up in the same chapter moments later.

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If an explosion from Caesar is enough to weaken Sanji's body to the point where Vergo can break it casually...its a low showing. It says to me that Sanji doesn't have the durability to take on opponents in the new world especially opponents that Luffy had to use gears to defeat i.e Caesar. Honestly, what have we seen from Sanji? he one shot Bobbin who's bounty is what...$100 million? He defeated sheepshead. Thats pretty much it.

Everybody who is isnt remotely close to fodder Sanji has struggled against or only clashed with. his superior speed did not save him.

Sanji vs Vergo

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Sanji vs judge

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I'd put my money on Jones.

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#45 Edited by SkySanji (3509 posts) - - Show Bio

Wow I didn't know Sanji got lowballed to the point where he can't beat Hody Jones, this is ridiculous

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#46 Posted by kroczilla (1751 posts) - - Show Bio

@enemybird: was gonna ignore this thread right until I saw this rather atrocious downplay of sanji. Let's see here;

Lol @luffy being that far ahead of sanji. Ignoring the fact that luffy himself wanted to rescue sanji from big mom based on the fact that he didn't believe they could take on kaidou without his strength.

Heck earlier, luffy trusted sanji to take on the big mom pirates attack and safeguard the ship. That would never have happened if sanji was "coby lvl"

Next, sanji would completely destroy Hody (can't believe this is an actual debate). The only reason Hody was ever a threat was due to high underwater mobility and luffy's weakness to piercing attacks. Sanji has none of those problems.

And then we get to the part where luffy "tanked" sanji's diable jambe (given that he got koed, tanked seems to be a really strong word here).

Apart from the fact that diable jambe isn't sanji's strongest attack, I think you are either forgetting or ignoring the fact that base luffy is pretty damn resilient even against Haki attacks. This is the same luffy who in base, survived a kick from kizaru (pretimeskip), non sold multiple hits from post timeskip Bellamy and took a beating from freakin KATAKURI for HOURS (I guess katakuri also loses to Hody huh 😂😂)

Heck the fact that sanji actually koed him despite being AT BEST, a reluctant participant in the battle, is pretty impressive.

Now for his showing against vergo;

First off, I like how you ignore the fact that sanji later matched vergo with said broken leg. Also we are talking of the same vergo who was easily the strongest of Doffy's executives.

I'm not sure exactly what posting a scan of Law using a haxxed ability to beat vergo is supposed to prove. We are talking about the same vergo who completely embarrassed a bloodlusted smoker (same smoker that fought evenly with law previously).

>says sanji can't beat ceaser

>ignoring the fact that sanji matched the man doffy sent to keep ceaser in check.

😂😂

Its amusing watching you trying to downplay to ease at which sanji one-shot opponents deemed strong enough to fiction just below an emperor's commander. Yet somehow sanji is at coby lvl? Do you even logic bruh?

Finally, Sanji vs Judge.

You're acting like judge is some kind of scrub. Dude is quite possibly the strongest among the germa Kingdom and uses technology in combat which is the envy of even an emperor like big mom.

You also seem to be ignoring the fact that judge only won that fight by exploiting one of his soldiers as well as sanji's kindness. Not to mention, sanji never went all out. From a guy who was going through some serious emotional turmoil for most of the arc, it's actually a good showing.

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#47 Posted by kroczilla (1751 posts) - - Show Bio

On topic; sanji cleans house. He even handles pica quicker given his better coo Haki. Also the fact that pica can use full body coa Hali doesn't equate to his Haki being on par with much stronger fighter. Doffy also can't use full body coa but no one here doubts that his Hali is much stronger than pica's.

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#48 Posted by Hope_w (2409 posts) - - Show Bio

Sanji losing to Jones is by all means a fat Lolworthy claim, he isn't really suited to face Pics so he loses to him.

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#49 Edited by Enemybird (5081 posts) - - Show Bio

@kroczilla said:

@enemybird: was gonna ignore this thread right until I saw this rather atrocious downplay of sanji. Let's see here;

Lol @luffy being that far ahead of sanji. Ignoring the fact that luffy himself wanted to rescue sanji from big mom based on the fact that he didn't believe they could take on kaidou without his strength.

Heck earlier, luffy trusted sanji to take on the big mom pirates attack and safeguard the ship. That would never have happened if sanji was "coby lvl"

Next, sanji would completely destroy Hody (can't believe this is an actual debate). The only reason Hody was ever a threat was due to high underwater mobility and luffy's weakness to piercing attacks. Sanji has none of those problems.

And then we get to the part where luffy "tanked" sanji's diable jambe (given that he got koed, tanked seems to be a really strong word here).

Apart from the fact that diable jambe isn't sanji's strongest attack, I think you are either forgetting or ignoring the fact that base luffy is pretty damn resilient even against Haki attacks. This is the same luffy who in base, survived a kick from kizaru (pretimeskip), non sold multiple hits from post timeskip Bellamy and took a beating from freakin KATAKURI for HOURS (I guess katakuri also loses to Hody huh 😂😂)

Heck the fact that sanji actually koed him despite being AT BEST, a reluctant participant in the battle, is pretty impressive.

Now for his showing against vergo;

First off, I like how you ignore the fact that sanji later matched vergo with said broken leg. Also we are talking of the same vergo who was easily the strongest of Doffy's executives.

I'm not sure exactly what posting a scan of Law using a haxxed ability to beat vergo is supposed to prove. We are talking about the same vergo who completely embarrassed a bloodlusted smoker (same smoker that fought evenly with law previously).

>says sanji can't beat ceaser

>ignoring the fact that sanji matched the man doffy sent to keep ceaser in check.

😂😂

Its amusing watching you trying to downplay to ease at which sanji one-shot opponents deemed strong enough to fiction just below an emperor's commander. Yet somehow sanji is at coby lvl? Do you even logic bruh?

Finally, Sanji vs Judge.

You're acting like judge is some kind of scrub. Dude is quite possibly the strongest among the germa Kingdom and uses technology in combat which is the envy of even an emperor like big mom.

You also seem to be ignoring the fact that judge only won that fight by exploiting one of his soldiers as well as sanji's kindness. Not to mention, Sanji never went all out. From a guy who was going through some serious emotional turmoil for most of the arc, it's actually a good showing.

You should've let Soca handle this one.

So you think Sanji wins based on what exactly? I didn't see you post any feats. Everybody who thinks Sanji wins is relying solely on what I can only presume is hype and not actual feats. Sometimes one piece logic works in the place of chacracters who lack feats but that ship has clearly sailed for Sanji. We have seen enough from him to not give him the benfit of the doubt anymore. he doesn't beat Hody for the reasons I very clearly stated. At best... its either unclear who wins or Hody Jones wins but Sanji doesnt have the feats to assume he wins.

Remember when Luffy ran from Katakuri because he couldn't use haki for 10 mins? without it, he cant take a beating from Katakuri. So lets throw that whole BS strawman argument out the window. Luffy cannot take a beating from Katakruri without haki. Luffy can take a beating from Sanji without haki.

I never said Sanji was Colby level. I said the gap between Luffy and Sanji is now as big of as gap as between Luffy and Colby pre timeskip. That is to say, Sanji doesn't stand a chance against Luffy at all... not even in base. If Hody Jones was so weak that Luffy didnt even need Haki to beat him, it would not have taken gear 2 and gear 3 attacks to put him down.

Sanji matched Vergo with a cracked leg. Vergo wasnt even trying hence the lack of armament haki. If Vergo was trying and used full body haki are you cofident that sanji could block it? I am not. His leg might have snapped in half. Soca pointed out that Sanji was weakened by Caesar. This wouldve have been a stronger counter if Ceasar was clearly above Hody Jones in terms of stats. It wouldve been a valid excuse but unfortunately, Hody Jones and Caesar are somewhat comparable as far as the amount of effort it took Luffy to defeat each of them.

Sanji matched Doflamingo? Jesus...what fight were you watching? Sanji was rickrolled by Mingo.

All I hear are a bunch of excuses why Sanji is getting his ass kicked in every fight but no reason why Sanji wins.

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#50 Edited by SkySanji (3509 posts) - - Show Bio

@enemybird said:
@kroczilla said:

@enemybird: was gonna ignore this thread right until I saw this rather atrocious downplay of sanji. Let's see here;

Lol @luffy being that far ahead of sanji. Ignoring the fact that luffy himself wanted to rescue sanji from big mom based on the fact that he didn't believe they could take on kaidou without his strength.

Heck earlier, luffy trusted sanji to take on the big mom pirates attack and safeguard the ship. That would never have happened if sanji was "coby lvl"

Next, sanji would completely destroy Hody (can't believe this is an actual debate). The only reason Hody was ever a threat was due to high underwater mobility and luffy's weakness to piercing attacks. Sanji has none of those problems.

And then we get to the part where luffy "tanked" sanji's diable jambe (given that he got koed, tanked seems to be a really strong word here).

Apart from the fact that diable jambe isn't sanji's strongest attack, I think you are either forgetting or ignoring the fact that base luffy is pretty damn resilient even against Haki attacks. This is the same luffy who in base, survived a kick from kizaru (pretimeskip), non sold multiple hits from post timeskip Bellamy and took a beating from freakin KATAKURI for HOURS (I guess katakuri also loses to Hody huh 😂😂)

Heck the fact that sanji actually koed him despite being AT BEST, a reluctant participant in the battle, is pretty impressive.

Now for his showing against vergo;

First off, I like how you ignore the fact that sanji later matched vergo with said broken leg. Also we are talking of the same vergo who was easily the strongest of Doffy's executives.

I'm not sure exactly what posting a scan of Law using a haxxed ability to beat vergo is supposed to prove. We are talking about the same vergo who completely embarrassed a bloodlusted smoker (same smoker that fought evenly with law previously).

>says sanji can't beat ceaser

>ignoring the fact that sanji matched the man doffy sent to keep ceaser in check.

😂😂

Its amusing watching you trying to downplay to ease at which sanji one-shot opponents deemed strong enough to fiction just below an emperor's commander. Yet somehow sanji is at coby lvl? Do you even logic bruh?

Finally, Sanji vs Judge.

You're acting like judge is some kind of scrub. Dude is quite possibly the strongest among the germa Kingdom and uses technology in combat which is the envy of even an emperor like big mom.

You also seem to be ignoring the fact that judge only won that fight by exploiting one of his soldiers as well as sanji's kindness. Not to mention, Sanji never went all out. From a guy who was going through some serious emotional turmoil for most of the arc, it's actually a good showing.

You should've let Soca handle this one.

So you think Sanji wins based on what exactly? I didn't see you post any feats. Everybody who thinks Sanji wins is relying solely on what I can only presume is hype and not actual feats. Sometimes one piece logic works in the place of chacracters who lack feats but that ship has clearly sailed for Sanji. We have seen enough from him to not give him the benfit of the doubt anymore. he doesn't beat Hody for the reasons I very clearly stated. At best... its either unclear who wins or Hody Jones wins but Sanji doesnt have the feats to assume he wins.

Like superior speed feats?

Superior physicals feats?

Haki? Especially Observation Haki which Sanji specializes in?

Remember when Luffy ran from Katakuri because he couldn't use haki for 10 mins? without it, he cant take a beating from Katakuri. So lets throw that whole BS strawman argument out the window. Luffy cannot take a beating from Katakruri without haki. Luffy can take a beating from Sanji without haki.

That's not the only reason why he was running from Katakuri...

He needs Haki in general to stand a chance not because he needs it to block Katakuri's attacks, what are you on about?

He needs armament or Coa to attack and block

And observation or Coo to try and read Katakuri's attacks

I never said Sanji was Colby level. I said the gap between Luffy and Sanji is now as big of as gap as between Luffy and Colby pre timeskip. That is to say, Sanji doesn't stand a chance against Luffy at all... not even in base. If Hody Jones was so weak that Luffy didnt even need Haki to beat him, it would not have taken gear 2 and gear 3 attacks to put him down.

What!?

Sanji matched Vergo with a cracked leg.

After Nami tanked an explosion in his body....

Vergo wasnt even trying hence the lack of armament haki.

Sanji didn't even use Diable Jambe or armament Haki in the clash either...

If Vergo was trying and used full body haki are you cofident that sanji could block it?

Yes

I am not.

That's your opinion and the fact that you are the only one arguing for why Sanji can't beat Hody I'll take what you say at with a grain of salt of course I'm a Sanji fanboy but the notion that Sanji can't beat Hody is a RIDICULOUS ammount of lowballing and reaching, you've got to hate Sanji....

His leg might have snapped in half.

Again Nami tanked an explosion in his body

He didn't use Diable Jambe or Armanent Haki during the clash....

Soca pointed out that Sanji was weakened by Caesar. This wouldve have been a stronger counter if Ceasar was clearly above Hody Jones in terms of stats. It wouldve been a valid excuse but unfortunately, Hody Jones and Caesar are somewhat comparable as far as the amount of effort it took Luffy to defeat each of them.

What!?

How are you comparing NAMI tanking an attack in Sanji's body to Hody and Ceasar getting beaten by Luffy

Your basically saying well Luffy beat both of them with ease so they are the same level of strength.

So because Luffy beats two enemies with ease they are somehow comparable? You have to factor in techniques if the two were to fight Caesar would ragdolls Hody

Lol what?

You would have to prove Hody can output attacks at the level of explosion that Nami got hit with.

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Don't even bother.

Sanji matched Doflamingo? Jesus...what fight were you watching? Sanji was rickrolled by Mingo.

Stop rushing and read what he said, he said Sanji matched the person Doflamingo sent out to keep Ceaser in check.

All I hear are a bunch of excuses why Sanji is getting his ass kicked in every fight but no reason why Sanji wins.

Pretty much went over this as my first point.