My point was that what comes out as solar flare is pure.... well light and outrunning it would be a light speed feat so would kid goku in 22nd Budokai Torunamemt was FTL ? No , because light attacks in fiction are not always light speed and that applies to The Photonic Beams as well .
I never said all light=LS, solar flare is made with ki so it's obviously not LS unless stated or it has feats for it, the photon Naruto dogded was from a machine, unless light from a light bulb isn't LS?saying all light is LS means low tiers in Naruto are already FTL which I didn't do
So ? BOZ Piccolo and Goku having the ability to react to beams that much faster is a far greater feat
Picolo never reacted to it lol, and did Goku dogde it?
again , Naruto at every step reacted to madara rather then the light fang as all he had to do was stay out of Madara's Face range .
This is just pointless headcannon which I'm going to ignore. Madara scales to LS for scaling above rel fast characters btw.
My point was that what comes out as solar flare is pure.... well light and outrunning it would be a light speed feat so would kid goku in 22nd Budokai Torunamemt was FTL ? No , because light attacks in fiction are not always light speed and that applies to The Photonic Beams as well .
I never said all light=LS, solar flare is made with ki so it's obviously not LS unless stated or it has feats for it, the photon Naruto dogded was from a machine, unless light from a light bulb isn't LS?saying all light is LS means low tiers in Naruto are already FTL which I didn't do
Again , they were combat oriented while light from electric bulbs
So ? BOZ Piccolo and Goku having the ability to react to beams that much faster is a far greater feat
Picolo never reacted to it lol, and did Goku dogde it?
They both scale to each other and can obviously dodge their own random Ki Blasts, Kamehameha and Special beam canon on the other hand are not dodgeable for anyone in that league except raditz and above .
again , Naruto at every step reacted to madara rather then the light fang as all he had to do was stay out of Madara's Face range .
This is just pointless headcannon which I'm going to ignore. Madara scales to LS for scaling above rel fast characters btw.
This is not pointless headcanon is facts . i would on normal circumstances give Juubidara FTL but if you wanna downplay vegeta to less then FTL , i am gonna use logical lowballing on naruto too
@aryansingh: Again , they were combat oriented while light from electric bulbs
Using fiction and logic is dumb asf, light man moving LS and Hurting ppl with punches so it don't matter if it's used for combat.
They both scale to each other and can obviously dodge their own random Ki Blasts, Kamehameha and Special beam canon on the other hand are not dodgeable for anyone in that league except raditz and above
Is that assumption or they dodged it?
This is not pointless headcanon is facts . i would on normal circumstances give Juubidara FTL but if you wanna downplay vegeta to less then FTL , i am gonna use logical lowballing on naruto too
How tf is Juudara FTL? Lol, I see Juudara at LS cuz he scales above rel characters, so ur facts is downplaying, don't u know the different between those 2 terms?
Using fiction and logic is dumb asf, light man moving LS and Hurting ppl with punches so it don't matter if it's used for combat.
again , natural light is not used for combat , The Raditz calc i provided was far more Logical , in the manga his speed was said immense and was probably FTL seeing how a Random Ki Blast was already nearly 40% FTL and Special Beam Canon was way faster due to Piccolo's reaction .
Is that assumption or they dodged it?
They did actually , In the 23rd World MartialArts tournament , Goku dodged it multiple times and Piccolo sclaes to goku so yeah , BOZ Goku and Piccolo have a far superior speed feat then Base Naruto dodging The Toneri Moon Splitting beam .
How tf is Juudara FTL? Lol, I see Juudara at LS cuz he scales above rel characters, so ur facts is downplaying, don't u know the different between those 2 terms?
You tried to deny facts , now i am lowballing and validly questioning the FTLness of Naruto, the same way you questioned Vegeta's except mine is far more sensible and factual .
And yeah , as you consider naruto and sasuke FTL , Juubidara casually kept up with both of them so yes he would be FTL by your own logic
@aryansingh: again , natural light is not used for combat , The Raditz calc i provided was far more Logical , in the manga his speed was said immense and was probably FTL seeing how a Random Ki Blast was already nearly 40% FTL and Special Beam Canon was way faster due to Piccolo's reaction
Same way made of light can hurt ppl in fiction, I'm gonna ignore this part of ur reply. Raditz barely dodged a rel moving beam, saying his speed was immense≠LS/FTL, stronger ki blast≠faster ki blast, Picolo didn't react to it, just said he was fast, not the beam.
They did actually , In the 23rd World MartialArts tournament , Goku dodged it multiple times and Piccolo sclaes to goku so yeah , BOZ Goku and Piccolo have a far superior speed feat then Base Naruto dodging The Toneri Moon Splitting beam .
Goku dodged Picolo's beams multiple times? Scan? And fair enough if it's true. Naruto dodging moon beam isn't his best speed feat, just so u know lol.
You tried to deny facts , now i am lowballing and validly questioning the FTLness of Naruto, the same way you questioned Vegeta's except mine is far more sensible and factual .
Whatever makes u happy. Some how saying stronger beams≠faster beams is lowballing by that logic any beam more powerful than light fang is FTL automatically
And yeah , as you consider naruto and sasuke FTL , Juubidara casually kept up with both of them so yes he would be FTL by your own log
Madara didn't keep up with the FTL version of Naruto, Naruto became FTL during Kaguya's fight, not Juudara's
Same way made of light can hurt ppl in fiction, I'm gonna ignore this part of ur reply. Raditz barely dodged a rel moving beam, saying his speed was immense≠LS/FTL, stronger ki blast≠faster ki blast, Picolo didn't react to it, just said he was fast, not the beam.
Please ignore that part of my reply because you really have no other choice . It was not a rel beam , i have mathematically proven random ki blasts = 40% the speed of light , The beam was straight out said to be faster in an indirect way , because Raditz dodging it shocked piccolo as he didn't think anyone was fast enough to dodge that specific attack , Because like i said , Special beam canon is far faster then normal ki blasts that even goku at 23rd World Martialarts tournament Dodged easily .
.
Goku dodged Picolo's beams multiple times? Scan? And fair enough if it's true. Naruto dodging moon beam isn't his best speed feat, just so u know lol.
Watch the 23rd world martial Arts tournament fight between Piccolo and Goku , in one scene piccolo goes into the sky and developes a Ki blasts , charges it up and goku straight out dodges it .
And seriously ? I know all of his speed feats , you don't know Dragonball's and You tried to make Toneri's moon splitting beam dodging as a compareable feat when even 23rd World Martial Tournament Goku and Piccolo have better speed feats , let alone raditz , then let alone Nappa and then let alone Base Saiyan Saga Goku and then let alone Saiyan Saga Vegeta .
Whatever makes u happy. Some how saying stronger beams≠faster beams is lowballing
Saying that Special Beam Canon was not faster even after i posted the scan of Piccolo's reaction and thoughts about Raditz dodging it , Is not lowballing , just Downplaying
Madara didn't keep up with the FTL version of Naruto, Naruto became FTL during Kaguya's fight, not Juudara's
LMFAO they did bnot become magically faster between the Juubidara and Kaguya fight.
@aryansingh: The beam was straight out said to be faster in an indirect way , because Raditz dodging it shocked piccolo as he didn't think anyone was fast enough to dodge that specific attack , Because like i said , Special beam canon is far faster then normal ki blasts that even goku at 23rd World Martialarts tournament Dodged easily .
Beam wasn't said to be faster in directly, he was shocked that he could dodge it doesn't mean the beam is faster. Naruto was shocked from seeing a large mountain sized meteorite doesn't mean he is not above mountain lvl. And which one is 23rd tournament Goku?
Saying that Special Beam Canon was not faster even after i posted the scan of Piccolo's reaction and thoughts about Raditz dodging it , Is not lowballing , just Downplaying
Already addressed this above
LMFAO they did bnot become magically faster between the Juubidara and Kaguya fight.
Kaguya blitz Naruto's LS reaction, later on extreme Bloodlusted naruto blitz a faster version of Kaguya. It's not magic, mate.
Beam wasn't said to be faster in directly, he was shocked that he could dodge it doesn't mean the beam is faster. Naruto was shocked from seeing a large mountain sized meteorite doesn't mean he is not above mountain lvl. And which one is 23rd tournament Goku
Yes it was , Piccolo was totally surprised that raditz could dodge that beam , He knew raditz was way above his and goku's weight class , when 23rd world Tournament Goku Dodged Normal Ki Blasts , why would he be shocked if Raditz dodged it ? Normal Ki blasts = 40% FTL so Special Beam canon which was far faster = Nearly FTL or FTL
And if you don't know what is 23rd world martial arts tournament Goku...... then you haven't even watched Dragonball
Already addressed this above
is this a serious statement ? I already debunked this .
.
Kaguya blitz Naruto's LS reaction, later on extreme Bloodlusted naruto blitz a faster version of Kaguya. It's not magic, mate.
Scan ? And there is nothing saying this is true at the very first place , i already debunked the light fang " feat " and kaguya/Naruto barely blitzed each other
@aryansingh: naruto or Onoike being shocked by a mountain sized meteorite don't mean they ain't above mountain lvl, that's all assumption u making out of Picolo's reaction
Idc if u believe the light fang feat or not cuz it happened so eh, say what makes u happy
Denying is not debunking btw, know the difference.
Kaguya blitz
Naruto blitz a faster version
Even denying light fang feat, he still dodged photon beams from a machine in base form and Madara scales above Rel characters placing him at LS
@aryansingh: naruto or Onoike being shocked by a mountain sized meteorite don't mean they ain't above mountain lvl, that's all assumption u making out of Picolo's reaction
Oh My dear , you are almost as ignorant as the person before you
He is shocked because Raditz was able to dodge And his speed , Piccolo knows raditz is much more powerful and thus can dodge Normal Ki blaste which are 40% of FTL so yes , the attack was much faster then a normal ki blast , no amount of denial is gonna change it .
Idc if u believe the light fang feat or not cuz it happened so eh, say what makes u happy
Yes it happened, the very same way i said it happened .
again , Naruto could have easily dodged Madara's face and scan saying that the fang of light attack is FTL but anyway , it is FTL so is solar flare .
Denying is not debunking btw, know the difference.
I am not denying anything so far , simply not taking your headcanon as canon :/
Kaguya blitz
Naruto blitz a faster version
1. Again , Kaguya blitzed all the shadow clones , not the real maruto .
And as you assumed Light Fang = LS , i am gonna assume solar flare to be LS
Even denying light fang feat, he still dodged photon beams from a machine in base form and Madara scales above Rel characters placing him at LS
Goku dodges tiens solar flare. A attack that is light and has enough time to get master roshi's glasses and come back.
Oh My dear , you are almost as ignorant as the person before you
He is shocked because Raditz was able to dodge And his speed , Piccolo knows raditz is much more powerful and thus can dodge Normal Ki blaste which are 40% of FTL so yes , the attack was much faster then a normal ki blast , no amount of denial is gonna change it .
I don't see the beam being faster but I can see Raditz being faster than Picolo from his statement which would scale Raditz to Rel since Picolo can dodge and not move as fast as his beam, if Picolo can move as fast as his beam then it would scale Raditz to Rel+
again , Naruto could have easily dodged Madara's face and scan saying that the fang of light attack is FTL but anyway , it is FTL so is solar flare .
Show me where it said solar flare moves as LS? I'll wait, comparing technique that's LS to a slow ass one smh. And again Madara scales above Rel fast characters which makes him LS, so whether he dodged it or not, he evaded Madara.
1. Again , Kaguya blitzed all the shadow clones , not the real maruto .
And clones can keep up with Naruto, this attempt of downplay doesn't have quality lol
And as you assumed Light Fang = LS , i am gonna assume solar flare to be LS
Light fang was said to be LS unlike solar flare and like I said it don't matter when Madara sclaes to LS
Goku dodges tiens solar flare. A attack that is light and has enough time to get master roshi's glasses and come back.
Oh My dear , you are almost as ignorant as the person before you
He is shocked because Raditz was able to dodge And his speed , Piccolo knows raditz is much more powerful and thus can dodge Normal Ki blaste which are 40% of FTL so yes , the attack was much faster then a normal ki blast , no amount of denial is gonna change it .
I don't see the beam being faster but I can see Raditz being faster than Picolo from his statement which would scale Raditz to Rel since Picolo can dodge and not move as fast as his beam, if Picolo can move as fast as his beam then it would scale Raditz to Rel+
Wow so this entire time you have been in denial and after i line by line debunked and explained you why Special beam Canon is FTL you come back to Illiterate rambling , don't worry , i will happily obilerate you again here .
Piccolo's normal ki blast time taken to reach moom was around 3 seconds
Distance between moon and Earth = 380,000 km
Formula of speed = Distance covered/Time taken
Speed of the Normal Ki Blast = 380,000 km/3 = 126,660 km per second approximately
speed of light = 300,000 km per second
So the speed of a normal ki blast is ( 126,600,000 ÷ 3,000,000 ) × 100% = approximately 40% the speed of light .
23rd World Martial Arts Tournament Goku on screen reacts multiple times to Ki Blasts so BOZ was already 40% the speed of light in term of combat speed alone , Raditz was easily capable of blitzing them and had a 3 time higher PL .
PL while is not consistant in Scaling of Attack Potency but is a phsyical boost in ALL Statistics like speed , durability e t.c
So even if We do PL scaling , Raditz comes out ss FTL and as well as by the feat of doding something Greater then 40% the speed of light .
And yes , PL does impact speed directly shown in combat , Vegeta was winning against Kaioken × 2 Goku who was 16,000 in PL but when Goku became Kioken × 3 , He Simply started blitzing Vegeta using the PL advantage meaning PL PL directly impacts speed , so yes Raditz indeed was FTL and Planetary and this is what Vegeta does to people on par with him .
And this is what he will do Foddershiki
again , Naruto could have easily dodged Madara's face and scan saying that the fang of light attack is FTL but anyway , it is FTL so is solar flare .
Show me where it said solar flare moves as LS? I'll wait, comparing technique that's LS to a slow ass one smh.
Show me where it is said that the fang of light is LS , i will wait .
And again Madara scales above Rel fast characters which makes him LS, so whether he dodged it or not, he evaded Madara.
Madara never dodged anything moving at 40% the speed of light , his speed is literally just based on scaling from tthe teen versions of naruto and sasuke so no , this is more headcanon on your part .
1. Again , Kaguya blitzed all the shadow clones , not the real maruto .
And clones can keep up with Naruto, this attempt of downplay doesn't have quality lol
So basically every clone naruto makes is as strong as naruto himself , Alas doesn't matter, i already proved raditz is Planetary using this scan
And as you assumed Light Fang = LS , i am gonna assume solar flare to be LS
Light fang was said to be LS unlike solar flare and like I said it don't matter when Madara sclaes to LS
Where is it said to Be LS and i would love your source , You are ready to assume that Photon beam canons are FTL because they are made from " Photons " but solar flare , which is literally a light beam made up of Light is not FTL :/ atleast try to hide your bias .
Goku dodges tiens solar flare. A attack that is light and has enough time to get master roshi's glasses and come back.
Didn't see where it said LS sorry
kid goku this is , vegeta is far above him .
Cool
Ok don't consider Solar Flare FTL , i wont consider Photon beams to be FTL
@aryansingh: from the moment u just implied that the only way to be rel means u MUST dodge LS, I lost interest, this might be my last reply or so depending on what u reply. Also Vegeta would be too slow to catch Isshiki with pointing fingers, Isshiki blitz and BFRs, gg
Comparing photons shot from a machine that wasnt said to have chakra and solar flare made with ki which is unnatural energy is just funny but whatever makes u happy. Lots of light in Naruto that foddered dodged but that's light made with unnatural energy, chakra cuz they were jutsus and wasn't stated LS but do u see me using them? No. Type light fang light speed on Google and u will see where it states it on images. Every Naruto clone is as fast as the original, this is a dumb question or point to bring up, wasn't it said that it was only in terms of durability they not equal? All clones can make attacks equal to the original, tf is this?
@aryansingh: from the moment u just implied that the only way to be rel means u MUST dodge LS,
I never implied that to be rel you need to dodge something that is LS because dodging something LS would be a FTL feat or atleast LS
I lost interest, this might be my last reply or so depending on what u reply.
Also Vegeta would be too slow to catch Isshiki with pointing fingers, Isshiki blitz and BFRs, gg
Already proved mathematically that Vegeta scales multiple times above someone who dodged LS and was FTL .
Comparing photons shot from a machine that wasnt said to have chakra and solar flare made with ki which is unnatural energy is just funny but whatever makes u happy.
Is there an actual sscan saying that the solar flare is made up of Ki rather then your headcanon ? Especially when it works astronomically different from all the Other Ki blasts
Alas that is not at all true , all light are not same , do you actually believe that the light from sun and the light from your bulb are the same type of Energy ?
Lots of light in Naruto that foddered dodged but that's light made with unnatural energy, chakra cuz they were jutsus and wasn't stated LS but do u see me using them? No.
Where ? and again , i was not using the solar flare point until you started using the photon beam canon .
Type light fang light speed on Google and u will see where it states it on images.
Light fang ? Did it and found nothing and again it is NOT relevant anymore because i by actual maths proved that even raditz Was FTL so its irrelevant if teen naruto was FTL when the gap between raditz and vegeta is bigger then gap between adult naruto and Isshiki
Every Naruto clone is as fast as the original, this is a dumb question or point to bring up, wasn't it said that it was only in terms of durability they not equal? All clones can make attacks equal to the original, tf is this?
Doesn't even matter anymore and already explained it above .
@aryansingh: I never implied that to be rel you need to dodge something that is LS because dodging something LS would be a FTL feat or atleast LS
Dodging LS is rel combat speed feat and LS reaction feat not FTL and I already said Madara scales above Rel characters and somehow still not LS.
Already proved mathematically that Vegeta scales multiple times above someone who dodged LS and was FTL
No wonder Ur scaling has been off, dodging LS≠LS combat, only LS in reactions.
Is there an actual sscan saying that the solar flare is made up of Ki rather then your headcanon ? Especially when it works astronomically different from all the Other Ki blasts
As long as it came from a character cuz IIRC no one in DB can produce natural energy so any attack done by them would be unnatural energy based
Alas that is not at all true , all light are not same , do you actually believe that the light from sun and the light from your bulb are the same type of Energy ?
Light from sun and light bulb ain't the same type of energy but they both not using spiritual energy/unnatural energy
@aryansingh: from the moment u just implied that the only way to be rel means u MUST dodge LS,
I never implied that to be rel you need to dodge something that is LS because dodging something LS would be a FTL feat or atleast LS
I lost interest, this might be my last reply or so depending on what u reply.
Also Vegeta would be too slow to catch Isshiki with pointing fingers, Isshiki blitz and BFRs, gg
Already proved mathematically that Vegeta scales multiple times above someone who dodged LS and was FTL .
Comparing photons shot from a machine that wasnt said to have chakra and solar flare made with ki which is unnatural energy is just funny but whatever makes u happy.
Is there an actual sscan saying that the solar flare is made up of Ki rather then your headcanon ? Especially when it works astronomically different from all the Other Ki blasts
Alas that is not at all true , all light are not same , do you actually believe that the light from sun and the light from your bulb are the same type of Energy ?
Lots of light in Naruto that foddered dodged but that's light made with unnatural energy, chakra cuz they were jutsus and wasn't stated LS but do u see me using them? No.
Where ? and again , i was not using the solar flare point until you started using the photon beam canon .
Type light fang light speed on Google and u will see where it states it on images.
Light fang ? Did it and found nothing and again it is NOT relevant anymore because i by actual maths proved that even raditz Was FTL so its irrelevant if teen naruto was FTL when the gap between raditz and vegeta is bigger then gap between adult naruto and Isshiki
Every Naruto clone is as fast as the original, this is a dumb question or point to bring up, wasn't it said that it was only in terms of durability they not equal? All clones can make attacks equal to the original, tf is this?
Doesn't even matter anymore and already explained it above .
Ah, I know that scan. It's from a fan-manga with evil Goku, loved it. Any way, on topic...
Truth-Seeking attacks are not simply "moon/planet" busting, they are defense-nullifying, they just go through anything that doesn't have Yin-Yang
Irrelevant, as TSO ignore durability to a certain extent. It's NLF to argue that they can oneshot people who tank attacks which vaporize planets. Anyway, ki blasts are stated to be atomizing, so they won't work.
@king2000 Isshiki still stomps since he's large planet level+
You are basically calling Isshiki Bambina tier...there is not a single feat in Naruto above moon level, bar Kaguya's ETSO, which doesn't scale...if you spout nonsense, I'll obviously correct you lol.
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