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#101 Posted by Cosmic_Lantern (5668 posts) - - Show Bio

My god the wacky dbz calcs.....Vegeta wins though.

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#102 Posted by Sun-Wukong (1361 posts) - - Show Bio

@dbzwnkkiller: can you me the scans that goku tanked it and it had a range of continent? i will help you debunk it.

As i myself have been a fan of dbz for like 15+ years.so let me help you get out of the road which may lead to dbz fanboyism.

Debunk it ?

Nah, you are not capable of doing so.

Papaya Island

Area: C-3

Special Characteristics: A gigantic island that lies south of the continent. It is endowed with width closer to a small continent than an island. The only way to travel to this island is through Dorian Airport or by crossing over by boat. It is an island with eternal summer that is warm year round. Tall palm trees grow heavily in the surroundings. Also, it seems it used to be a volcanic island, as a gigantic mountain rises from the island’s center, and spreads out into a gentle slope.

Battles: Artificial Human No.19 vs. Son Goku, Tambourine vs. Son Goku, Yajirobe vs. Cymbal

Events: Goku and the others visited this island each time they entered the Tenkaichi Budoukai. Also, at the 22nd Tenkaichi Budoukai, Goku swam here from Yahhoi at the end of his training. (Daizenshuu 4, p. 88)

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#103 Posted by Sun-Wukong (1361 posts) - - Show Bio

@dbzwnkkiller: can you me the scans that goku tanked it and it had a range of continent? i will help you debunk it.

As i myself have been a fan of dbz for like 15+ years.so let me help you get out of the road which may lead to dbz fanboyism.

Debunk it ?

Nah, you are not capable of doing so.

Papaya Island

Area: C-3

Special Characteristics: A gigantic island that lies south of the continent. It is endowed with width closer to a small continent than an island. The only way to travel to this island is through Dorian Airport or by crossing over by boat. It is an island with eternal summer that is warm year round. Tall palm trees grow heavily in the surroundings. Also, it seems it used to be a volcanic island, as a gigantic mountain rises from the island’s center, and spreads out into a gentle slope.

Battles: Artificial Human No.19 vs. Son Goku, Tambourine vs. Son Goku, Yajirobe vs. Cymbal

Events: Goku and the others visited this island each time they entered the Tenkaichi Budoukai. Also, at the 22nd Tenkaichi Budoukai, Goku swam here from Yahhoi at the end of his training. (Daizenshuu 4, p. 88)

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#104 Edited by Alphapunk (1776 posts) - - Show Bio
@alextheboss said:

@thedarkpaladin: Did you just go full retard? I said Physical.... That means punches and kicks, no ki blasts....

DB characters control their attacks, they have shown the ability to destroy the Universe or possibly billions of galaxies atm but you don't see them destroy large areas constantly.

Let's say i punch with 5000pnds of force, would it be better to use that 5000pnds over many miles or condense it into a 5 inch punch? Land/planet/galaxy destruction is NOT needed to consider the punch hard. DB characters have been CASUAL moon busters since early dbz but you don't see their little ki beams later on destroying planets/moons ect ect. We accept that they control their ki blasts but not their physical strikes?

Anyways with all the proof of their KI attacks DC it's sort of hard to argue their physical strikes are MUCH weaker, if they were WHY WOULD THEY STRIKE IN COMBAT? That basically sums it up, if you want to put down DB-Z physical strikes YOU MUST discredit their KI attacks. Good luck.

Recoome was 3-4x stronger than planet buster Vegeta but was put down in one hit by Goku, he would have laughed off a ki blast that was a planet buster....explain?

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#105 Posted by AlexTheBoss (18661 posts) - - Show Bio

@thedarkpaladin: Ok. Well Beerus and Goku clashing almost destroyed the universe, so imo that should definitely put their physical attacks way above island level.

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#106 Posted by Sun-Wukong (1361 posts) - - Show Bio

@thedarkpaladin: Ok. Well Beerus and Goku clashing almost destroyed the universe, so imo that should definitely put their physical attacks way above island level.

They are physically way above Island level since 23rd. Frieza took a planet explosion cut in half and no Ki, force and everything. He also took a spirit bomb that had enough force to crush a planet.

Ki has many properties, it can be made in piercing attacks or cutting attacks or shock waves.

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#107 Edited by AlexTheBoss (18661 posts) - - Show Bio

@alphapunk: IMO anyone weaker than Frieza isn't planet level. That is why it was hyped up that Frieza could blow up planets. There is a reason why nobody else was like, I'll destroy the planet before I loose! (besides crazy Vegeta who also said he was the strongest warrior in the universe)

In my other comment I explained why punches are effective even though they don't have the same destructive capability. If i poked you with a needle with 50 lbs of force that would go right through your body. A punch with 1,000 lbs of pressure couldn't even come close to doing that, yet it has much more destructive force.

The same concepts goes with explosions. They could have more destructive power but they aren't concentrated so they won't go through the dbz characters ki shield, while punches can.

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#108 Posted by Sun-Wukong (1361 posts) - - Show Bio

@alphapunk: IMO anyone weaker than Frieza isn't planet level. That is why it was hyped up that Frieza could blow up planets. There is a reason why nobody else was like, I'll destroy the planet before I loose! (besides crazy Vegeta who also said he was the strongest warrior in the universe)

In my other comment I explained why punches are effective even though they don't have the same destructive capability. If i poked you with a needle with 50 lbs of force that would go right through your body. A punch with 1,000 lbs of pressure couldn't even come close to doing that, yet it has much more destructive force.

The same concepts goes with explosions. They could have more destructive power but they aren't concentrated so they won't go through the dbz characters ki shield, while punches can.

They where casually destroying moon while supressed at BOZ, not to mention you have 2 characters (Nappa and Vegeta) just shaking the planet from powering up. There is no reason not for them to be planet level.

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#109 Posted by AlexTheBoss (18661 posts) - - Show Bio

@sun-wukong: Nappa and Vegeta didn't actually shake the planet, it only felt like they were. I think ssj 3 Goku was the first person to actually shake the entire planet.

The moon is over 80 times smaller plus it has less gravity holding it together. It is much easier to bust, probably over 100 times easier.

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#110 Posted by Sun-Wukong (1361 posts) - - Show Bio

@alextheboss:

If Nappa can shake the planet, it's obvious Vegeta can. Actually no, the moon is 25% the size of earth. And considering the shock waves of the moon getting destroyed was even reaching the earth. They are easily planet level no question.

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#111 Posted by Alphapunk (1776 posts) - - Show Bio

@alphapunk: IMO anyone weaker than Frieza isn't planet level. That is why it was hyped up that Frieza could blow up planets. There is a reason why nobody else was like, I'll destroy the planet before I loose! (besides crazy Vegeta who also said he was the strongest warrior in the universe)

In my other comment I explained why punches are effective even though they don't have the same destructive capability. If i poked you with a needle with 50 lbs of force that would go right through your body. A punch with 1,000 lbs of pressure couldn't even come close to doing that, yet it has much more destructive force.

The same concepts goes with explosions. They could have more destructive power but they aren't concentrated so they won't go through the dbz characters ki shield, while punches can.

Frieza is a cocky pos, he admits he misjudged the power needed to bust the planet. I do think this is a little inconsistent though. Some people claim Namek is much larger than Earth but that's w/o proof.

Still though Vegeta and Goku both thought his blast could bust the Earth, i think it;s credible considering Roshi busted the moon decades earlier and many leagues lower in power.

We could argue logic all day long, i think it boils down to the writers taste in fights at the time, in super Beerus and Chompa(?) just had a fight where they physically busted 3-4 planets in an instant to go along with Beerus finger tap planet buster feat and Friezas Earth busting slap, i think even Akira knows DBZ lacked physical feats and is making up for it.

For me it all comes down to this, if you can 1 hit somebody > planet level your punches are just as effective as a planet busting beam if not more so. Saiyan saga Vegeta IS a planet buster and we see Namek saga Goku one shooting a guy much more powerful then he is. Until Saitama busts a planet with his punches i just can't think he can hurt Vegeta in saiyan saga. Z def needed more phy feats.

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#112 Edited by Alphapunk (1776 posts) - - Show Bio

@alextheboss said:

@sun-wukong: Nappa and Vegeta didn't actually shake the planet, it only felt like they were. I think ssj 3 Goku was the first person to actually shake the entire planet.

The moon is over 80 times smaller plus it has less gravity holding it together. It is much easier to bust, probably over 100 times easier.

Saiyan saga Vegeta is 130x stronger than Roshi that busted moon in early original dragonball.

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#113 Posted by AlexTheBoss (18661 posts) - - Show Bio

@sun-wukong: "it feels like the Earth is shaking". that means it probably isn't. Tien was just overestimating.

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#114 Posted by WhoIsNoHate (2 posts) - - Show Bio

mismatch beyond believe why make these threads? saitama one shots

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#115 Posted by AlexTheBoss (18661 posts) - - Show Bio

@alphapunk: ya dbz is inconsistent. I'm pretty sure beerus and frieza used ki to destroy those planets. They made some sort of ki shockwave.

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#116 Edited by nilok (740 posts) - - Show Bio

@zzagirl: DBZ characters have higher tolerance and durability against Ki attacks than physical blows. Just a hypothesis, but this is most likely due to Ki barriers that can repel an opponent's Ki.

In the fight against Guldo, Gohan and Krilliin were hurt by Guldo's thrown rocks, and visibly distressed by a sharpened piece of wood being thrown at them.

Lets also not forget, that Oozaru Vegeta's tail was cut off by Yajirobe, who was ~0.6% or ~165 times weaker than him.

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#118 Posted by DeathHero61 (18870 posts) - - Show Bio

@alphapunk: This is inconsistent considering by powerscaling(which hardly works in DBZ) weaker characters like Krillin are supposed to be planet level but yet can't take attacks even close to that level........

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#119 Edited by zzagirl (1097 posts) - - Show Bio

@nilok said:

@zzagirl: DBZ characters have higher tolerance and durability against Ki attacks than physical blows. Just a hypothesis, but this is most likely due to Ki barriers that can repel an opponent's Ki.

In the fight against Guldo, Gohan and Krilliin were hurt by Guldo's thrown rocks, and visibly distressed by a sharpened piece of wood being thrown at them.

Lets also not forget, that Oozaru Vegeta's tail was cut off by Yajirobe, who was ~0.6% or ~165 times weaker than him.

Thrown rocks? Guldo never threw rocks at Krillin and Gohan, and they were unable to defend themselves because they were stuck in his supernatural attack, as Vegeta called it. Had they been able to at least move, they could have raised their chi to defend themselves and take the sharpened tree head on.

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His tail was cut off because he couldn't sense Yajirobe, and he didn't even realize he was there. If the other two charged at him, he could have easily defended himself. He was simply caught off guard. He could have easily brushed off Yajirobe's attack had he realized he was there and remained in his Oozaru transformation.

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#120 Edited by Sun-Wukong (1361 posts) - - Show Bio

@alextheboss said:

@sun-wukong: "it feels like the Earth is shaking". that means it probably isn't. Tien was just overestimating.

That's nothing but silly, 2 statements stating it's shaking the earth and you are simply making excuses on it. Tien is saying the earth is shaking, why would he be lying ? Goku says the earth is shaking so why would he be lying ? he knows what his Ki should be able to do. They are able to destroy a planet by Vegeta, casually destroy moons at BOZ.

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#121 Posted by Alphapunk (1776 posts) - - Show Bio

@alphapunk: This is inconsistent considering by powerscaling(which hardly works in DBZ) weaker characters like Krillin are supposed to be planet level but yet can't take attacks even close to that level........

When do they fight fodder? They might get one hit by the stronger characters but they are all way over planet level Namek arc and on. DB is pretty consistent with power levels while they are actually used which isn't long. Roshis powered up moon beam is 40% SOL at 139 while Piccolos casual moon busting beam is at 70% at 320. Roshi busts the moon at 139 and Vegeta could do the same to the Earth at 18,000. It's not exact but definitely close enough to not be a coincidence. Akira wanted DBZ to end after Frieza was beat so he probably thought a lot about PLs and who could do what and when, the numbers match up pretty damn good.

@nilok said:

@zzagirl: DBZ characters have higher tolerance and durability against Ki attacks than physical blows. Just a hypothesis, but this is most likely due to Ki barriers that can repel an opponent's Ki.

In the fight against Guldo, Gohan and Krilliin were hurt by Guldo's thrown rocks, and visibly distressed by a sharpened piece of wood being thrown at them.

Lets also not forget, that Oozaru Vegeta's tail was cut off by Yajirobe, who was ~0.6% or ~165 times weaker than him.

This has been addressed but let's not forget yajirobi is comparable to Roshi - a moon buster. He snuck up on Vegeta due to him not being able to sense KI at the time. Yajirobi is a joke now but in OPverse he would be extremely powerful.

Guldo is damn strong at 13,000 pl, he might not be a planet buster but he is closer to one than he is moon or continent. He probably infused KI into the objects and with his abilities Gohan and Krillin were defenseless.

Both your points are valid but it's not so simple - Yajirobi is close to moon level and snuck Vegetas weak spot, sure he trained the tail but it's surely still weaker than the rest. Vegeta couldn't sense KI so sneak attacks worked on him at that point.

Guldo is at least multi-moon at 13,000 and had abilities to make them defenseless.

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#122 Posted by AlexTheBoss (18661 posts) - - Show Bio

@sun-wukong: well technically the earth is shaking. In an earth quake the earth shakes, you just can't feel it in the entire world. I mean it can't be felt around the entire earth like it was when goku went ssj 3.

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#123 Posted by nilok (740 posts) - - Show Bio
@zzagirl said:
@nilok said:

@zzagirl: DBZ characters have higher tolerance and durability against Ki attacks than physical blows. Just a hypothesis, but this is most likely due to Ki barriers that can repel an opponent's Ki.

In the fight against Guldo, Gohan and Krilliin were hurt by Guldo's thrown rocks, and visibly distressed by a sharpened piece of wood being thrown at them.

Lets also not forget, that Oozaru Vegeta's tail was cut off by Yajirobe, who was ~0.6% or ~165 times weaker than him.

Thrown rocks? Guldo never threw rocks at Krillin and Gohan, and they were unable to defend themselves because they were stuck in his supernatural attack, as Vegeta called it. Had they been able to at least move, they could have raised their chi to defend themselves and take the sharpened tree head on.

His tail was cut off because he couldn't sense Yajirobe, and he didn't even realize he was there. If the other two charged at him, he could have easily defended himself. He was simply caught off guard. He could have easily brushed off Yajirobe's attack had he realized he was there and remained in his Oozaru transformation.

Guldo never threw rocks at them?

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PU8OlIjpi_0

I find it strange to Gohan and Krillin couldn't defend themselves while immobile, yet when Vegeta had Goku restrained, Goku could defend himself.

However, if your suggestion with Yajirobe is correct and it requires the user to focus their Ki to actually be able to block an attack, and it is not just their physical durability, it puts Vegeta at a sizable disadvantage. Vegeta's defeat will come from his arrogance and his overconfidence. Vegeta would not waste his time fighting a lowly human seriously and underestimate Saitama like every other character in One Punch Man has without previous knowledge of Saitama. This will be the source of his defeat, as if it requires exertion to defend himself, he will leave his defense mostly down and will take a normal punch to the gut, immediately regretting it, weakening him for the rest of the fight.

If Vegeta was Bloodlusted, he would stand more of a fight, but since he is in character, he will be arrogant and be blindsided by Saitama's monstrous strength and speed.

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#124 Posted by zzagirl (1097 posts) - - Show Bio

@nilok said:
@zzagirl said:
@nilok said:

@zzagirl: DBZ characters have higher tolerance and durability against Ki attacks than physical blows. Just a hypothesis, but this is most likely due to Ki barriers that can repel an opponent's Ki.

In the fight against Guldo, Gohan and Krilliin were hurt by Guldo's thrown rocks, and visibly distressed by a sharpened piece of wood being thrown at them.

Lets also not forget, that Oozaru Vegeta's tail was cut off by Yajirobe, who was ~0.6% or ~165 times weaker than him.

Thrown rocks? Guldo never threw rocks at Krillin and Gohan, and they were unable to defend themselves because they were stuck in his supernatural attack, as Vegeta called it. Had they been able to at least move, they could have raised their chi to defend themselves and take the sharpened tree head on.

His tail was cut off because he couldn't sense Yajirobe, and he didn't even realize he was there. If the other two charged at him, he could have easily defended himself. He was simply caught off guard. He could have easily brushed off Yajirobe's attack had he realized he was there and remained in his Oozaru transformation.

Guldo never threw rocks at them?

No Caption Provided

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PU8OlIjpi_0

I find it strange to Gohan and Krillin couldn't defend themselves while immobile, yet when Vegeta had Goku restrained, Goku could defend himself.

However, if your suggestion with Yajirobe is correct and it requires the user to focus their Ki to actually be able to block an attack, and it is not just their physical durability, it puts Vegeta at a sizable disadvantage. Vegeta's defeat will come from his arrogance and his overconfidence. Vegeta would not waste his time fighting a lowly human seriously and underestimate Saitama like every other character in One Punch Man has without previous knowledge of Saitama. This will be the source of his defeat, as if it requires exertion to defend himself, he will leave his defense mostly down and will take a normal punch to the gut, immediately regretting it, weakening him for the rest of the fight.

If Vegeta was Bloodlusted, he would stand more of a fight, but since he is in character, he will be arrogant and be blindsided by Saitama's

monstrous strength and speed.

You pulled a scene from the anime filler, congrats. Never happened in the manga.

Vegeta never had Goku restrained by supernatural abilities, only physical. It was also stated earlier on that their physical durability is enhanced by their chi. By early on, I mean at the beginning of DB(Z) itself. Vegeta won't be defeated by Saitama, because he won't be caught off guard, because Saitama is nowhere near his speed at all. Unless you're speaking of Raditz, and maybe Nappa, arrogance and overconfidence shouldn't be brought into the discussion. Saitama isn't touching a single hair on Vegeta's body.

Show a scan of Saitama punching anything close to the moon, and I may consider your response.

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#125 Edited by nilok (740 posts) - - Show Bio

@zzagirl:

Where did it say we could not use anime feats?

I believe I already detailedly explained to you that Saitama is at least Mach 30 in another thread, and explained that Dragon Ball characters do not move faster than light without an advanced movement technique like Instant Transmission or Warp.

If I must show a scan of Saitama punching the moon, could you show a scan of Yajirobe cutting the moon?

Saitama punching the moon has not been released yet, that will be in the fight against Metal Overlord shown in the cover teaser drawn by Yusuke Murata.

You are assuming that Vegeta naturally has moon level durability, instead of that being an effect of his Ki protecting him.

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#126 Edited by zzagirl (1097 posts) - - Show Bio

@nilok said:

@zzagirl:

Where did it say we could not use anime feats?

I believe I already detailedly explained to you that Saitama is at least Mach 30 in another thread, and explained that Dragon Ball characters do not move faster than light without an advanced movement technique like Instant Transmission or Warp.

If I must show a scan of Saitama punching the moon, could you show a scan of Yajirobe cutting the moon?

You are assuming that Vegeta naturally has moon level durability, instead of that being an effect of his Ki protecting him.

I'm going based off the fact that the anime differs from the manga greatly. Why would we use the anime? Why are you assuming we're going to use the anime for DB, haha?

Mach 30 isn't cutting it when it comes to battling or tagging Saiyan Saga characters, IT is Instant and not Lightspeed, and you're using, for some awful reason yet again, the FUNimation dub. Seriously, you should know now that I'm going to keep reminding you that the dub is incredible inaccurate each time you bring it up, and that it shouldn't be used in debates unless specified.

I'm not assuming anything. Vegeta tanked a Kamehameha, which was a planet buster, head on, took a spirit bomb head on, and took a beatdown from a Kaioken X3 Goku. You're trying to strip away Vegeta's durability feats with effect of his ki protecting him, yet you're using bogus statements from the awful dub. Again. You've done this almost every time I've debated with you.

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#127 Posted by Divell (2616 posts) - - Show Bio
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#128 Posted by Sun-Wukong (1361 posts) - - Show Bio

@sun-wukong: well technically the earth is shaking. In an earth quake the earth shakes, you just can't feel it in the entire world. I mean it can't be felt around the entire earth like it was when goku went ssj 3.

It was felt and spread across the entire planet, that's the point of the earth is shaking, and they said the entire planet is. They can sense on how or what there ki can affect. So it's easy to know what's happening.

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#129 Posted by Sun-Wukong (1361 posts) - - Show Bio
@nilok said:

@zzagirl:

Where did it say we could not use anime feats?

I believe I already detailedly explained to you that Saitama is at least Mach 30 in another thread, and explained that Dragon Ball characters do not move faster than light without an advanced movement technique like Instant Transmission or Warp.

If I must show a scan of Saitama punching the moon, could you show a scan of Yajirobe cutting the moon?

Saitama punching the moon has not been released yet, that will be in the fight against Metal Overlord shown in the cover teaser drawn by Yusuke Murata.

You are assuming that Vegeta naturally has moon level durability, instead of that being an effect of his Ki protecting him.

You make no sense, Ki is his own life force energy. It's something that creates shield or strengthens ones body. Vegeta survive because he is durable enough to withstand planet level attacks hence why he handle Goku 4 x Kamehameha.

DBZ character can move FTL, there is no reason why they can't if they literally blitz guys who are much faster lightning speed just in the 23rd arc.

Not to mention the speed of there blast and such.

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#130 Posted by Xaos (1126 posts) - - Show Bio

Saitama win.

I mean, Vegeta's perfectly able to win, he's faster, can strike from afar and move before Saitama could even move, but the Prince of Saiyen will let Saitama land a punch, just to prove he's the more powerful, because he's a dumb guy like that and then, the fight will be over, with Vegeta spreaded in all direction...

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#131 Posted by Alphapunk (1776 posts) - - Show Bio

@nilok said:

@zzagirl:

Where did it say we could not use anime feats?

I believe I already detailedly explained to you that Saitama is at least Mach 30 in another thread, and explained that Dragon Ball characters do not move faster than light without an advanced movement technique like Instant Transmission or Warp.

If I must show a scan of Saitama punching the moon, could you show a scan of Yajirobe cutting the moon?

Saitama punching the moon has not been released yet, that will be in the fight against Metal Overlord shown in the cover teaser drawn by Yusuke Murata.

You are assuming that Vegeta naturally has moon level durability, instead of that being an effect of his Ki protecting him.

You make no sense, Ki is his own life force energy. It's something that creates shield or strengthens ones body. Vegeta survive because he is durable enough to withstand planet level attacks hence why he handle Goku 4 x Kamehameha.

DBZ character can move FTL, there is no reason why they can't if they literally blitz guys who are much faster lightning speed just in the 23rd arc.

Not to mention the speed of there blast and such.

I think a lot of people never watched original DB, that would account for them not thinking DBZ characters are ftl, even though Raditz can be proven to be lol.

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#132 Posted by dbzwnkkiller (23 posts) - - Show Bio

@sun-wukong: That's all data book shit, The data book also tells that cell is a solar system buster.lol

But really nice try. i asked for scans not statements.

and frieza and cell have tanked planet level attacks. lol

Can you show me scans of frieza in one piece after namek exploded.

oh wait you can't, coz he was turned to mecha frieza for getting most of his body torn apart by the planet exploding.lol

See here Cell Punches a so called planet busting attack and his shoulder is tored apart.

Loading Video...

move to 5 mins..

Hey that final flash did not even faze the atmosphere or could not even clear a small city level cloud kinda weak i say.

i am dying to see this planet level durability. go ahead debunk me

No1 in dbz is planet level durability. show me scans or videos instead of showing databooks and obd calculators to me.

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#133 Posted by zzagirl (1097 posts) - - Show Bio

@sun-wukong: That's all data book shit, The data book also tells that cell is a solar system buster.lol

But really nice try. i asked for scans not statements.

and frieza and cell have tanked planet level attacks. lol

Can you show me scans of frieza in one piece after namek exploded.

oh wait you can't, coz he was turned to mecha frieza for getting most of his body torn apart by the planet exploding.lol

See here Cell Punches a so called planet busting attack and his shoulder is tored apart.

Loading Video...

move to 5 mins..

Hey that final flash did not even faze the atmosphere or could not even clear a small city level cloud kinda weak i say.

i am dying to see this planet level durability. go ahead debunk me

No1 in dbz is planet level durability. show me scans or videos instead of showing databooks and obd calculators to me.

Get off your alt.

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#134 Posted by Sun-Wukong (1361 posts) - - Show Bio

@dbzwnkkiller: Cell is a solar system buster, what makes you think he isn't ? I want evidence from the series saying he isn't a SS buster or proves him wrong on it. Data books are fine unless the series proves it wrong.

Ah scans include statements -.-

No, but he survive the explosion of the planet while cut in half and no energy. So I don't get what you are trying to say

Bro if you are going to lecture someone on DBZ, make sure you do it right. And no, his body got torn apart from his own attack which was his own destructo disk, actually read the series thanks.

First that was the anime, where guys like Nappa can survive 3 planets getting destroyed. In canon it was strong enough to destroy a planet as a side effect from it's power.

-.- The final flash can easily destroy the planet, don't be denial please.

Besides Frieza already survive a planet explosion ?

Your argument is rubbish and just based on denial, don't be silly thanks. You can never prove anyone wrong with such terrible downplaying. Use the series as evidence and not your opinion and views.

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#135 Posted by Galactic_1000 (5851 posts) - - Show Bio

Vegeta

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#136 Posted by NoHatesDad (11 posts) - - Show Bio

Please just stop with these threads already.

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#137 Edited by nilok (740 posts) - - Show Bio
@alphapunk said:
@sun-wukong said:
@nilok said:

@zzagirl:

Where did it say we could not use anime feats?

I believe I already detailedly explained to you that Saitama is at least Mach 30 in another thread, and explained that Dragon Ball characters do not move faster than light without an advanced movement technique like Instant Transmission or Warp.

If I must show a scan of Saitama punching the moon, could you show a scan of Yajirobe cutting the moon?

Saitama punching the moon has not been released yet, that will be in the fight against Metal Overlord shown in the cover teaser drawn by Yusuke Murata.

You are assuming that Vegeta naturally has moon level durability, instead of that being an effect of his Ki protecting him.

You make no sense, Ki is his own life force energy. It's something that creates shield or strengthens ones body. Vegeta survive because he is durable enough to withstand planet level attacks hence why he handle Goku 4 x Kamehameha.

DBZ character can move FTL, there is no reason why they can't if they literally blitz guys who are much faster lightning speed just in the 23rd arc.

Not to mention the speed of there blast and such.

I think a lot of people never watched original DB, that would account for them not thinking DBZ characters are ftl, even though Raditz can be proven to be lol.

I've watched all of Dragon Ball and Z, the statement by Piccolo that Raditz is FTL is a massive overstatement.

If that was the case, the feat that Goku performed when showing off his Instant Transmission after arriving on Earth would have been ignored.

Light can travel around the Earth 7.5 times in a second, which means that any of the characters could replicate that feat if they flew 13.3% the speed of light, not even FTL. However, everyone was impressed that it only took Goku a second to travel half way around the Earth to Roshi's House and back.

@zzagirl said:
@nilok said:

@zzagirl:

Where did it say we could not use anime feats?

I believe I already detailedly explained to you that Saitama is at least Mach 30 in another thread, and explained that Dragon Ball characters do not move faster than light without an advanced movement technique like Instant Transmission or Warp.

If I must show a scan of Saitama punching the moon, could you show a scan of Yajirobe cutting the moon?

You are assuming that Vegeta naturally has moon level durability, instead of that being an effect of his Ki protecting him.

I'm going based off the fact that the anime differs from the manga greatly. Why would we use the anime? Why are you assuming we're going to use the anime for DB, haha?

Mach 30 isn't cutting it when it comes to battling or tagging Saiyan Saga characters, IT is Instant and not Lightspeed, and you're using, for some awful reason yet again, the FUNimation dub. Seriously, you should know now that I'm going to keep reminding you that the dub is incredible inaccurate each time you bring it up, and that it shouldn't be used in debates unless specified.

I'm not assuming anything. Vegeta tanked a Kamehameha, which was a planet buster, head on, took a spirit bomb head on, and took a beatdown from a Kaioken X3 Goku. You're trying to strip away Vegeta's durability feats with effect of his ki protecting him, yet you're using bogus statements from the awful dub. Again. You've done this almost every time I've debated with you.

Because it is an official source and it was never restricted in the OP.

I have explained to you before what FTL means, which is arriving at a destination before the light from your origin does, not traveling at light speed. However, traveling at exactly light speed would be a much higher feat than traveling faster than light. I can only assume you are intentionally misunderstanding me at this point.

Then tell me how Yajirobe was able to cut off one of Vegeta's appendages if we so much weaker than him. Please, present your theory.

Edit:
Okay, I zzagirl, I do need to applaud you, that is some grade A dry sarcasm.

Your hint with the "FUNimation Dub" finally tipped me off and I checked the original manga. At no time does Piccolo even say faster than light, just that he was astonished at his speed.

I'm known by my friends for my dry sarcasm, but you take the cake.

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#138 Posted by dbzwnkkiller (23 posts) - - Show Bio

@dbzwnkkiller: Cell is a solar system buster, what makes you think he isn't ? I want evidence from the series saying he isn't a SS buster or proves him wrong on it. Data books are fine unless the series proves it wrong.

Ah scans include statements -.-

No, but he survive the explosion of the planet while cut in half and no energy. So I don't get what you are trying to say

Bro if you are going to lecture someone on DBZ, make sure you do it right. And no, his body got torn apart from his own attack which was his own destructo disk, actually read the series thanks.

First that was the anime, where guys like Nappa can survive 3 planets getting destroyed. In canon it was strong enough to destroy a planet as a side effect from it's power.

-.- The final flash can easily destroy the planet, don't be denial please.

Besides Frieza already survive a planet explosion ?

Your argument is rubbish and just based on denial, don't be silly thanks. You can never prove anyone wrong with such terrible downplaying. Use the series as evidence and not your opinion and views.

No Caption Provided

oh look saiyan saga vegeta had to power up to blow away earth and even cell too.

But Now King Vegeta's > Perfect cell but still died at the hands of Base Frieza. lol

Downplaying me? are you drunk or high on drugs.

I said dbz char have a consistent feat of getting hurt by attacks less then city level, when they get hit.

Loading Video...

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#139 Posted by AlexTheBoss (18661 posts) - - Show Bio

@sun-wukong: then it would of showed people around the world feeling it. It didn't even show Bulma, master roshi, or anyone else feel it. People would of taken notice. The whole earth shook in dragon ball super and the people actually noticed and it was on the news.

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#140 Posted by zzagirl (1097 posts) - - Show Bio

@nilok said:
@alphapunk said:
@sun-wukong said:
@nilok said:

@zzagirl:

Where did it say we could not use anime feats?

I believe I already detailedly explained to you that Saitama is at least Mach 30 in another thread, and explained that Dragon Ball characters do not move faster than light without an advanced movement technique like Instant Transmission or Warp.

If I must show a scan of Saitama punching the moon, could you show a scan of Yajirobe cutting the moon?

Saitama punching the moon has not been released yet, that will be in the fight against Metal Overlord shown in the cover teaser drawn by Yusuke Murata.

You are assuming that Vegeta naturally has moon level durability, instead of that being an effect of his Ki protecting him.

You make no sense, Ki is his own life force energy. It's something that creates shield or strengthens ones body. Vegeta survive because he is durable enough to withstand planet level attacks hence why he handle Goku 4 x Kamehameha.

DBZ character can move FTL, there is no reason why they can't if they literally blitz guys who are much faster lightning speed just in the 23rd arc.

Not to mention the speed of there blast and such.

I think a lot of people never watched original DB, that would account for them not thinking DBZ characters are ftl, even though Raditz can be proven to be lol.

I've watched all of Dragon Ball and Z, the statement by Piccolo that Raditz is FTL is a massive overstatement.

If that was the case, the feat that Goku performed when showing off his Instant Transmission after arriving on Earth would have been ignored.

Light can travel around the Earth 7.5 times in a second, which means that any of the characters could replicate that feat if they flew 13.3% the speed of light, not even FTL. However, everyone was impressed that it only took Goku a second to travel half way around the Earth to Roshi's House and back.

@zzagirl said:
@nilok said:

@zzagirl:

Where did it say we could not use anime feats?

I believe I already detailedly explained to you that Saitama is at least Mach 30 in another thread, and explained that Dragon Ball characters do not move faster than light without an advanced movement technique like Instant Transmission or Warp.

If I must show a scan of Saitama punching the moon, could you show a scan of Yajirobe cutting the moon?

You are assuming that Vegeta naturally has moon level durability, instead of that being an effect of his Ki protecting him.

I'm going based off the fact that the anime differs from the manga greatly. Why would we use the anime? Why are you assuming we're going to use the anime for DB, haha?

Mach 30 isn't cutting it when it comes to battling or tagging Saiyan Saga characters, IT is Instant and not Lightspeed, and you're using, for some awful reason yet again, the FUNimation dub. Seriously, you should know now that I'm going to keep reminding you that the dub is incredible inaccurate each time you bring it up, and that it shouldn't be used in debates unless specified.

I'm not assuming anything. Vegeta tanked a Kamehameha, which was a planet buster, head on, took a spirit bomb head on, and took a beatdown from a Kaioken X3 Goku. You're trying to strip away Vegeta's durability feats with effect of his ki protecting him, yet you're using bogus statements from the awful dub. Again. You've done this almost every time I've debated with you.

Because it is an official source and it was never restricted in the OP.

I have explained to you before what FTL means, which is arriving at a destination before the light from your origin does, not traveling at light speed. However, traveling at exactly light speed would be a much higher feat than traveling faster than light. I can only assume you are intentionally misunderstanding me at this point.

Then tell me how Yajirobe was able to cut off one of Vegeta's appendages if we so much weaker than him. Please, present your theory.

Edit:

Okay, I zzagirl, I do need to applaud you, that is some grade A dry sarcasm.

Your hint with the "FUNimation Dub" finally tipped me off and I checked the original manga. At no time does Piccolo even say faster than light, just that he was astonished at his speed.

I'm known by my friends for my dry sarcasm, but you take the cake.

Lol, you're ridiculous. The anime and mangas translations are different, and the manga is the obvious canon of the two. Even a child would know to use the manga as his source whether than the anime. Please.

1- Applying your scientific thoughts on it doesn't make you right. Makes you more hard-headed since you refuse to accept the actuality of the technique itself. Lightspeed ain't instant; just call it Instant and I won't think poorly of you when you argue about it any longer. Seems like you're getting this bad information off of the wiki itself to support your arguments too. Hope that isn't the case.

2- Stop bringing up Yajirobe. In case you didn't read my previous comment, he cut his tail off because Vegeta was unaware of his presence and was caught off guard. That simple, even posted manga scans.

3- Obviously he doesn't say it, they never really do in most mangas. Powerscaling is a thing in DB, I'll remind you, and I think you're choosing to be ignorant of it for whatever reason. So what other nonsense are you going to respond to me with this time?

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#141 Posted by shihan (1575 posts) - - Show Bio

Nice & awesome battle

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#142 Edited by Alphapunk (1776 posts) - - Show Bio

@nilok said:
@alphapunk said:
@sun-wukong said:
@nilok said:

@zzagirl:

Where did it say we could not use anime feats?

I believe I already detailedly explained to you that Saitama is at least Mach 30 in another thread, and explained that Dragon Ball characters do not move faster than light without an advanced movement technique like Instant Transmission or Warp.

If I must show a scan of Saitama punching the moon, could you show a scan of Yajirobe cutting the moon?

Saitama punching the moon has not been released yet, that will be in the fight against Metal Overlord shown in the cover teaser drawn by Yusuke Murata.

You are assuming that Vegeta naturally has moon level durability, instead of that being an effect of his Ki protecting him.

You make no sense, Ki is his own life force energy. It's something that creates shield or strengthens ones body. Vegeta survive because he is durable enough to withstand planet level attacks hence why he handle Goku 4 x Kamehameha.

DBZ character can move FTL, there is no reason why they can't if they literally blitz guys who are much faster lightning speed just in the 23rd arc.

Not to mention the speed of there blast and such.

I think a lot of people never watched original DB, that would account for them not thinking DBZ characters are ftl, even though Raditz can be proven to be lol.

I've watched all of Dragon Ball and Z, the statement by Piccolo that Raditz is FTL is a massive overstatement.

If that was the case, the feat that Goku performed when showing off his Instant Transmission after arriving on Earth would have been ignored.

Light can travel around the Earth 7.5 times in a second, which means that any of the characters could replicate that feat if they flew 13.3% the speed of light, not even FTL. However, everyone was impressed that it only took Goku a second to travel half way around the Earth to Roshi's House and back.

There is a easy progression leading up to Raditz that help cement the 2 feats, even though they do NOT need cementing because they are clear as day.
1st episode DB- Goku casually outruns lion - 21st Budokai Krillin + Roshi have a hypersonic+ fight, 45 seconds or so is done in .2 seconds, they effectively slow down time from their perspective, from this point on common sense dictates ALL high level fights are fought in this way, think DOFP quicksilver scene, this is by far the biggest barrier in convincing people of DBZ battle speed, time is slowed down when they fight and travel or we could not see them, that 21st budokai match shows this.
The next speed boost is when Goku fights Tao for the first time, at this point Goku is a good bit faster than hypersonic+ Krillin, he can't even touch Tao, Tao crushes him with his hands behind his back and is likely AT LEAST 3x as fast as Goku on the low end. Goku proceeds to train with Korin and fights Tao immediately after he is done, this time Goku smashes him and is at least 3x as fast on the low end.
This should put Goku around 10x faster than he was in the 21st Budokai, he was likely 1.5 or 2x faster than the Hypersonic+ Krillin during the 21st budokai so on the low end Goku is 15x faster than the Krillin that slowed time down with Roshi to the point 40-45 seconds seemed like .2. Goku is FAR beyond MHypersonic at this point.
This >>>Mhypersonic Goku proceeds to run around the world for 3 years, fights in the 22nd budokai(getting Zenkais a couple of times) and then trains with Kami/Popop for 3 years. Popo is lightning speed btw. Goku has trouble keeping up but later when he fights Piccolo NOBODY can see him fight, lightning+(Popo Kami) characters see Goku and Piccolo just as the humans watched Krillin and Roshi. How much faster do you have to be that someone cannot see you? 10x? 25x? This Goku is likely 10-25x lightning speed due to kami not seeing him because Kami > Popo who IS lightning speed.
As we see Goku went from >>MHypersonic to >Lightning speed(10-25x) in 6 years, it's clear as day this is true and feats back it up. So Goku is 1/5 light speed on the low end and maybe HALF lightspeed on the high end, THIS IS BEFORE the 5 YEAR TIME SKIP!
Let's LOWBALL again and say Goku only doubled his power in FIVE YEARS, this put's him at around 20x lightning speed(40% SOL) to 50x lightning speed which is LIGHT SPEED.
Now getting to Raditz, Goku is 416 power level and is somewhere between 40%=1x Speed of light, low and high end. Raditz at 1,500 is 3.5x as strong as him, that would put him somewhere beetwen 1.2-3.5x ftl, AMAZINGLY(!) this matches ALMOST PERFECTLY WITH THE ROSHI-PICCOLO MOON BLAST CALCULATIONS which put Raditz at about 2.0-2.3x FTL!
I don't even want to "Win" a damn debate it's just obvious Raditz is FTL, he has 2 FEATS and a whole series to back them up!
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#143 Posted by Sun-Wukong (1361 posts) - - Show Bio

@sun-wukong: then it would of showed people around the world feeling it. It didn't even show Bulma, master roshi, or anyone else feel it. People would of taken notice. The whole earth shook in dragon ball super and the people actually noticed and it was on the news.

That's not evidence, because Goku and Tien can sense how far there energy goes and what it can affect. Just how Goku in Super new that the shock waves would destroy the universe and he needs to stop them.

That's simply your own interperation on the matter and a what if

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#144 Posted by Sun-Wukong (1361 posts) - - Show Bio

@sun-wukong said:

@dbzwnkkiller: Cell is a solar system buster, what makes you think he isn't ? I want evidence from the series saying he isn't a SS buster or proves him wrong on it. Data books are fine unless the series proves it wrong.

Ah scans include statements -.-

No, but he survive the explosion of the planet while cut in half and no energy. So I don't get what you are trying to say

Bro if you are going to lecture someone on DBZ, make sure you do it right. And no, his body got torn apart from his own attack which was his own destructo disk, actually read the series thanks.

First that was the anime, where guys like Nappa can survive 3 planets getting destroyed. In canon it was strong enough to destroy a planet as a side effect from it's power.

-.- The final flash can easily destroy the planet, don't be denial please.

Besides Frieza already survive a planet explosion ?

Your argument is rubbish and just based on denial, don't be silly thanks. You can never prove anyone wrong with such terrible downplaying. Use the series as evidence and not your opinion and views.

No Caption Provided

oh look saiyan saga vegeta had to power up to blow away earth and even cell too.

But Now King Vegeta's > Perfect cell but still died at the hands of Base Frieza. lol

Downplaying me? are you drunk or high on drugs.

I said dbz char have a consistent feat of getting hurt by attacks less then city level, when they get hit.

Loading Video...

Base Frieza done this in the anime

No Caption Provided

They had more then enough power to blow away the earth, destroying the earth was simply a side affect of when it's thrown at the foe.

And no, KIng Vegeta is nothing too Cell, don't be dumb

I am normal thanks.

DBZ characters have Ki control they can control the size of the blast but increase the power. For example the big bang attack vs Galick Gun, the Big bang attack is said to be many time stronger then the galick gun yet has less range. Buu survive a planet explosion from his attack, died from the spirit bomb which was less then city level. DBZ can control there KI power and radius. Your downplaying is low level, get better arguments

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#145 Posted by AlexTheBoss (18661 posts) - - Show Bio

@sun-wukong: Goku didn't know the shock-waves would destroy the universe. elder kai had to warn him.

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#146 Edited by AlexTheBoss (18661 posts) - - Show Bio
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#147 Posted by Sun-Wukong (1361 posts) - - Show Bio

@sun-wukong: Goku didn't know the shock-waves would destroy the universe. elder kai had to warn him.

They didn't warn them how it would destroy the universe. Goku knew it would be with shock waves. It's just how they know which attack is strong enough to destroy earth and so on. They know what they are saying.

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#148 Posted by IbetYouCantGues (1 posts) - - Show Bio

just stop, your making everyone laugh, we dont like trolls on this site. Saitama blitzes Vegeta.

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#149 Edited by dbzwnkkiller (23 posts) - - Show Bio

@alextheboss:I know, but this is consistent through dbz series (which is canon) that they hurt by attack less then city level.

@sun-wukong: buu only survived due to regeneration. and nothing else. he did not tank it.

My argument level is too low because you can't give answers why vegeta's final flash ripped off buu's shoulder

And why frieza was torn in to half by planet namek explosion despite being planet level durabilty?

So when you cannot debate properly and have answer it properly so your opponent argument level becomes low. Extreme LEL.

Look here Vegeta has to power up to blow a planet and hit the core.

Loading Video...

During the fist fight between Goku and Vegeta.

Goku just smashed Vegeta through mountains and only made small hole and smashed him on a boulder of a mountain.

But that boulder did not even break and he was fck*ing crying how strong goku's hit were. lol

Saitama hits even harder then this.LeL

And while Vegeta is carried aways by the kamehameha, Yajirobe comes in has a chat with Goku and still vegeta has come back.

Pretty sure that kamehameha did not even reach space and vegeta ditch that ride not tanked it.

DBZ Fans say that kamehameha is MTFL. (only in dbz fanbois dreams)

So whenever you don't have an answer of my question my arguments, my debate becomes low-level. ROFL

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#150 Posted by AlexTheBoss (18661 posts) - - Show Bio

@sun-wukong: elder kai did warn them. maybe they did know it could destroy the universe before he warned them, but it isn't specified.