Saitama vs Naruto

then argue with feats, scans, proves. and if you believe Naruto is moon level for overpowering an attack that cut a hollow moon then believe it, it is your opinion, but don't try to use it in a debate when said moon has way less mass than an actual moon, as cutting a solid moon is way different than cutting a hollow moon.

@Purple_D_Dragon: I just rewatched the scene on my pc and understand what you are saying but let me ask you a question,let us assume that the moon wasn't hollow and it was much more solid,like how a normal moon should be,do you think toneri's beam would have still been able to cut the moon? if your answer is yes then don't explain but if no please explain.

@le0nhart: sure. When I get on again.

@Purple_D_Dragon

I see. However, the first few images you posted showing Toneri slicing the beam in half doesn't really prove anything as only the exterior of the Moon was shown as evidenced by Kurama...who fell outside the hole.

The sun being in the centre of the Moon seems to be your best piece of evievidence. Only problem is your source is from a baseless statement fromNarutopedia. No official source states this.

Further, we were given a view of the castle later on and it seemed relatively unharmed despite the Moon being split in half.

Furthermore, if this was truly the case then surely we would have seen liquid from the lake below it. Instead we were only shown rocks flying in space in the form of debris.

More likely the sun was in the middle of the section terraformed.

that is something we can't know for sure, it would be speculation as trying to guess Saitama's max power. what we know is that the crust of the moon is around 1 kilometre tick (see image below) and Toneri cut the crust completely, but having a power that cuts like that wouldn't guaranty that he could cut a 10.917 km (the circumference of the moon) of a solid and complete moon.

@Purple_D_Dragon: I don't need to post scans and let me prove it to you,weather you believe or or not is now up to you.If the moon split in half then that means the beam was able to pass through and reach the other end for it to cause a complete split of it in half.If I take a saw and cut through a hollow fruit such as coconut and stop half way there is no way it would split in half except I complete the process,if I take a knife and cut through an apple stopping half way,it won't split in half until I complete the process,the beam was powerful enough to pass through the "HOLLOW" moon,the beam experienced an empty space before reaching the other end,if that empty space was more solid,the beam would have still sut through but this time the process would be slower than it was when he cut the "HOLLOW" moon.This is a practical thing you are trying to debunk that naruto is not moon level but you are not looking at all angles.I've aired my view and am not forcing anyone to follow it neither am I wanking naruto so everyone with their own opinion

@purple_d_dragon: so the truth of naruto's moon comes to surfaces, pun intended.

This picture is not from a current shown fight, but maybe from a future encounter of Saitama. So crushing a moon is nothing to him. But maybe it's not a moon but a planet and he is landing on the moon, because it actually looks more like a planet.

that logic... it hurts.

you are comparing the moon with a fruit? and it is not the knife has the power to cut the fruit by itself, it is the person using the knife who puts the necessary strength on it. and as you said, it would take more time.

the beam experienced an empty space before reaching the other end,if that empty space was more solid,the beam would have still cut through but this time the process would be slower than it was when he cut the "HOLLOW" moon.

so if he waves his hand as fast as he did on the movie, he would not be able to cut the moon to the other side, and if he waved his hand, slowly and waiting until the laser reach the other side of the moon then he could be considered moon level but there is a problem with that, there is no evidence that he could sustain the jutsu that long. it could take several minutes or an hour and I doubt he could extend that technique like that.

@Purple_D_Dragon: Let us also look at it from another angle.Assuming toneri's beam could only cut through a more solid moon halfway,he did the attack twice which would complete the cutting process and even after using a technique like that,he showed no sign of exhaustion which is what one would normally expect but instead he looked like he could release the technique again,naruto tanked the attack twice and would have tanked a 3rd if toneri had used it again I don't know if you understand the angle I'm coming from

@Purple_D_Dragon: How does the logic hurt.It seem you didn't understand what I was trying to point out.It not about how strong the person cutting is the main point was about stopping halfway,let the person cutting the fruit be the worlds strongest man if the knife/sharp object does not fully cut through but stops halfway,then there is no way it would split in half simple logic.

I guess that with that logic Saitama is moon level too as he has the power to do this to the moon just by jumping with the strength of his legs, and he was not tired at all after making that jump. he could use that same force as many times as he want and it would destroy the moon.

... seriously, good luck convincing people with that argument. you are just grasping at straws now kid.

Don't hurt yourself reaching.

and you have no profs on Toneri being able to extend the duration of his attack for minutes. so there, Toneri has the knife but not the energy to keep cutting to the other side.

@le0nhart: sure. When I get on again.

I see. However, the first few images you posted showing Toneri slicing the beam in half doesn't really prove anything as only the exterior of the Moon was shown as evidenced by Kurama...who fell outside the hole.

The sun being in the centre of the Moon seems to be your best piece of evievidence. Only problem is your source is from a baseless statement fromNarutopedia. No official source states this.

Further, we were given a view of the castle later on and it seemed relatively unharmed despite the Moon being split in half.

Furthermore, if this was truly the case then surely we would have seen liquid from the lake below it. Instead we were only shown rocks flying in space in the form of debris.

More likely the sun was in the middle of the section terraformed.

@homifred: Since when is the Tenseigan a sun?

oh little you were talking to me? sorry but I am busy talking with your other alt.

The tenseigan is not the sun, it just powers it up. the artificial sun and the tenseigan are not the same thing.

@Thedarkpaladin: I don't understand your statement,are you mocking by trying to tell me not to hurt myself cutting to the end of the fruit or you mean I should rest.

@tiraomoz: I'm not mocking you. I'm just saying the moon level Naruto claims are getting a bit out of hand.

@Purple_D_Dragon: Toneri used the Attack twice against naruto how is that not evidence that he has the energy cut through,he didn't show signs of exhaustions even after using it the 1st time

Saitama did that much of damage to the moon by jumping and didn't break a sweat... by that logic, he can destroy the moon using that attack over and over again, and you would have to prove he would get tired, good luck finding evidence of Saitama getting tired... ever.

@Purple_D_Dragon: What is wrong with you,did you ever see me dispute saitama's feats I just said that he is far superior to moon level due to what he did when he jumped back to earth,I'm not disputing any of saitama's feats so why do you keep bringing him up,I'm arguing for naruto alone,saitama can punch a planet to pieces that I know.Its naruto's moon level feat I'm trying to proove here.

and you are doing a sad job. you are using theories of what Toneri could do. instead of what he did.

I don't buy your hypothetical scenario as it is unlikely he could cut trough half of the moon in around 10 seconds. as you claim his attack could cut halfway on a complete solid moon.

NLF spotted, who said they bypass durability? where was stated? and most of all, could they hurt people with insane durability as thor or a herald?

@purple_d_dragon: Oh sorry i forgot it was a NLF that was very silly of me. So yeah saitiam 1 shots both of them.

@Thedarkpaladin: I'm not making the moon level claims go out of hand.Someone being a planet,moon ,ountry or whatever buster,doesn't necesarily mean that the person one shots the planet NO! It also means that the person is capable of destroying the planet and toneri has the power to destroy the moon,a power that naruto overcame during his fight,toneri being able to split a "HOLLOW" moon and displaying the power he used to do it twice mean that he is very much capable of destroying a normal moon

Saitama slaughters.

@tiraomoz: Toneri didn't completely destroy the moon, he cut it in half. It was still held together by the GBE. The fact remains that Naruto has been injured by attacks that aren't moon level before and after that happend.

@Purple_D_Dragon: I've done the best I can,its you who is refusing to understand any of what I've been saying,is a planet buster someone who can one shot a planet or has the capacity to destroy one,the answer is both,toneri being able to use the attack more than once proves he has the power to destroy a normal moon.I'm actually making serious sense and you are refusing to listen because you want to debunk naruto's feat and Now Toneri included.

@tiraomoz: man, if you really want Naruto to be considered moon level here then make a thread, talk about it and explain your theory there. see if it is accept it or not.

meanwhile, we all can agree Saitama stomps.

@azrael1973 said:

This picture is not from a current shown fight, but maybe from a future encounter of Saitama. So crushing a moon is nothing to him. But maybe it's not a moon but a planet and he is landing on the moon, because it actually looks more like a planet.

No, it was said by Murata that Saitama will battle someone named Metal Overlord and he will punch him through the moon. Some future event to look forward to.

@zzagirl said:

@azrael1973 said:

This picture is not from a current shown fight, but maybe from a future encounter of Saitama. So crushing a moon is nothing to him. But maybe it's not a moon but a planet and he is landing on the moon, because it actually looks more like a planet.

No, it was said by Murata that Saitama will battle someone named Metal Overlord and he will punch him through the moon. Some future event to look forward to.

sounds like the guy Genos is chasing.

@purple_d_dragon said:

@zzagirl said:

@azrael1973 said:

This picture is not from a current shown fight, but maybe from a future encounter of Saitama. So crushing a moon is nothing to him. But maybe it's not a moon but a planet and he is landing on the moon, because it actually looks more like a planet.

No, it was said by Murata that Saitama will battle someone named Metal Overlord and he will punch him through the moon. Some future event to look forward to.

sounds like the guy Genos is chasing.

SPOILER Alert: My guess is Metal Overlord is someone within the S ranks.

@zzagirl said:

@purple_d_dragon said:

@zzagirl said:

@azrael1973 said:

This picture is not from a current shown fight, but maybe from a future encounter of Saitama. So crushing a moon is nothing to him. But maybe it's not a moon but a planet and he is landing on the moon, because it actually looks more like a planet.

No, it was said by Murata that Saitama will battle someone named Metal Overlord and he will punch him through the moon. Some future event to look forward to.

sounds like the guy Genos is chasing.

SPOILER Alert: My guess is Metal Overlord is someone within the S ranks.

like the guy who uses robots? remember someone warn Genos about that guy.

@purple_d_dragon said:

@zzagirl said:

@purple_d_dragon said:

@zzagirl said:

@azrael1973 said:

This picture is not from a current shown fight, but maybe from a future encounter of Saitama. So crushing a moon is nothing to him. But maybe it's not a moon but a planet and he is landing on the moon, because it actually looks more like a planet.

No, it was said by Murata that Saitama will battle someone named Metal Overlord and he will punch him through the moon. Some future event to look forward to.

sounds like the guy Genos is chasing.

SPOILER Alert: My guess is Metal Overlord is someone within the S ranks.

like the guy who uses robots? remember someone warn Genos about that guy.

That's what I assume to be true. Murata may add a surprising twist to it from the way the manga is going. I'm excited and anticipating something that's gonna make my jaw drop, lol.

Thanks for the information. i didn't know that.

@limitlessedge: Saitama got scratched by a cat... and it hurt him

While I agree the attack was more like multi-continent your scans do nothing to prove how hollow the moon is. You make it seem like the hollowness goes all the way up to just beneath the crust which is just no. Here check this link: http://vsbattles.wikia.com/wiki/Thread:77125

I can't post images right now but look for the user that posted this comment and view the image (near the bottom of the thread):

Using our moon as an example, the radius of the inner core of the moon is 240km.

Volume of a sphere = ⁴⁄₃πr³.

57905835.790967 kilometer3 = ⁴⁄₃π240³

This should be enough to house those floating islands, Toneri's castle, etc. By the way, the moon's core only takes up about 2 percent of the moon's mass(see included picture). If anything, the only part of the Narutoverse's moon that is hollow is the core which again should only take up less than 10 percent of the moon's mass. So regardless, Toneri cut through the moon's crust and thick mantle like it was butter, so yes he is still at least continent level+ and doesn't need recalculation.

Logically speaking, if the moon really is as hollow as you assume then it should collapse upon itself OR the Naruto moon is much larger than ours which would explain the earth like gravity.

No we don't need help when we are right :P

Madare fired a laser, naruto dodged, then madara swung his head. Simple as that. Sure it can be debated but there is a logical argument for light speed or - at least - relativistic reaction times without lowballing Madara and Naruto to death when the attack (light fang) is restricted to those who have s06P chakra. Hell even Gai using the 8 gates was around sub relativistic – relativistic since he bent space.

@theparadox: Naruto was Ko'd by his daughter. He was ko'd for an entire day.

@theparadox said:

That's evidence that his power comes from toon force. Almost nothing beats toon force.

@azrael1973 said:

@theparadox said:

@limitlessedge: Saitama got scratched by a cat... and it hurt him

That's evidence that his power comes from toon force. Almost nothing beats toon force.

that cat was obviously a bastard child of Beerus.

Now that you're done dealing with my other alt do you think you can refute my argument? I'm waiting...

It's not. Sorry for the confusion.

@purple_d_dragon said:

@azrael1973 said:

@theparadox said:

@limitlessedge: Saitama got scratched by a cat... and it hurt him

That's evidence that his power comes from toon force. Almost nothing beats toon force.

that cat was obviously a bastard child of Beerus.

Or, you know, we can acknowledge the fact that using gag humour and PIS as actual debating feats is a nonsensical practice as EVERY series has them.

@homifred: ok. time to explain how the moon in Naruto works... I had the post ready, but it got erased yesterday, so I didn't feel like writing it again, but here we go.

first, you need to understand this, the moon is hollow, and has a crust this thick. around 1 kilometre. as we can see from the next image.

the crust has two faces, the inner face of the crust that contains the seas, the mountains, the forests, and the other things. and as you can see, it is like being inside a ball, the other islands and places are in the inner face of the crust. as you can see the curvature of the land being the opposite of the way it works on the earth.

and this is the exterior face of the crust. the surface of the moon.

as I quoted before (at least I quoted a source, even if you don't take their info.) The Tenseigan, is the thing that powers up the artificial sun, the Tenseigan is in the centre of the moon, the artificial sun is actually a barrier that surrounds the core of the moon, as you can see, from the crust to the core there is nothing but air, as even has a blue atmosphere and clouds, so no mass, just the crust.

Now, the core of the moon, I don't know why someone mentions it as if the artificial environment and stuff were inside the core, because this is the core and there is nothing there, it just floats there, damaged, and with islands and the palace around it.

as you can see, it floats on the centre of the moon, inside the Barrier (sun).

now, when Toneri cut the moon, we managed to see how the laser cut the crust, but it was never shown cutting anything inside (I mean anything solid inside, besides the crust.), just the forests, and mountains that are in the inner face of the crust.

see how the laser cuts and if goes up in the inverted curvature of the inner side of the crust?

see how is like a hollow ball inside?

it matches the way the laser is cutting the moon outside, with the same inverted curvature.

so yeah, that pretty much proves the moon is hollow, only with the crust, and the broken core.

if you want to know, the artificial sun is indeed a barrier that is in the centre of the moon, as in the movie they had to find a way to enter there.

Saitama.

Also the moon feat was done with something derived from a TSB. Naruto is immune to TSBs.

@purple_d_dragon said:

@homifred: ok. time to explain how the moon in Naruto works... I had the post ready, but it got erased yesterday, so I didn't feel like writing it again, but here we

(Woah. Alot of writing. I'm

first, you need to und

(Slow down, speedy Gonzales. That's what you're trying to prove.)

And has a crust this thick. around 1 kilometre. as we can see from the next ibute.

(OK)

The crust has two faces, the inner face of the crust that contains the seas, the mountains, the forests, and the other things. and as you can see, it is like being inside a ball, the other islands and places are in the inner face of the crust. as you can see the curvature of the land being the opposite of the way it works on the earth.

(OK.)

and this is the exterior face of the crust. the surface of the moon.

(Yep)

as I quoted before (at least I quoted a source, even if you don't take their info.)

(Me not taking their info isn't the problem. Narutopedia is updated by the masses hence we can't assume that the info they relay is official as their credibility is questionable. For example, they've stated Gamabuntu is 100 metres tall while in actuality he was 17 m (databook). Another example is the assumption that the form in Naruto Gaiden is Sage of Sixth Which is false as the chakra cloak completely covered Naruto's skin, indicating it's BSM rather than SO6Paths mode.)

The Tenseigan, is the thing that powers up the artificial sun, the Tenseigan is in the centre of the moon, the artificial sun is actually a barrier that surrounds the core of the moon, as you can see, from the crust to the core there is nothing but air, as even has a blue atmosphere and clouds, so no mass, just the crust.

(True.)

Now, the core of the moon, I don't know why someone mentions it as if the artificial environment and stuff were inside the core, because this is the core and there is nothing there, it just floats there, damaged, and with islands and the palace around it.

as you can see, it floats on the centre of the moon, inside the Barrier (sun).

(I see.)

now, when Toneri cut the moon, we managed to see how the laser cut the crust, but it was never shown cutting anything inside (I mean anything solid inside, besides the crust.), just the forests, and mountains that are in the inner face of the crust.

(Wait, what? Pause.

Prior to Toneri's attack Kurama and that stone stature fell from the inside of the Moon to the point where they can see the Earth.)

see how the laser cuts and if goes up in the inverted curvature of the inner side of the crust?

see how is like a hollow ball inside?

it matches the way the laser is cutting the moon outside, with the same inverted curvature.

(Your assuming that this is a view from inside but I've already proven it's indeed a view from outside. It appears to be nothing more than an effect from the camera angle (viewing it from the left rather than the right).

(Great post though).

He's immune to tsb's. He's not immune to the beams fired by it as shown when his Shadow Clones were destroyed by various lasers.

@homifred: . . . so? are you agree or not?

I will believe the moon is more than a crust with a core in the centre if you show me something that shows anything in between the core and the inner crust.

you know Kurama and the statue somehow end up in the inner crust right? or did you miss the forests and river showed when the laser cut the moon? or the fact Kurama blasted the statue to the sky and end up breaking the crust and propelling Toneri and making him absorb the sun light?

I can post scans but you should already know as you watched the movie.

also, you complained about the castle being intact after Toneri cut the moon in half.

Further, we were given a view of the castle later on and it seemed relatively unharmed despite the Moon being split in half.

he actually didn't cut it in the exact half. you can check if you wish, but the left side is bigger than the right side, at least in the distance in the equator. the core should be around that red circle.