Avatar image for sladerulez
#452 Posted by sladerulez (10000 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_vulcan:

Godforbid... Overhyping saitama is irritating so basically this is sixpaths naruto okay... Opm fans show me scans of Saitama tanking tsb??? Attack way more superior to onokis atomic dismantling and dust release..... Plsssssss show me.... I'm going insane here fans be talking asif he's invincible.... Normal I see saitama beating Wonder Woman but DC fans Say she traded blows with kryptonians so saitama can't hurt her... Bloody hell comic vine is getting irritating... I'm pretty sure I'm not the one complaining... GUYS GUYS THERE WAS ALSO A TREAD WHERE NARUTO WITH INFINITE CHAKRA VS WOMDERWOMAN AND THEY SHE STOMPS LOL... OKAY WE ALL KNOW NARUTO IS CAPABLE OF MAKING OVER A THOUSAND CLONES ROUGHLY 4000 SO BASICALLY WITH INFINITE CHAKRA EACH OF THOSE CLONES ARE INFINITELY AMPED SINCE THEY SHARE THE SAME INFINITE ENERGY...EACH CLONE CAN MAKE 6 BIJUU RASENSHIRUKN WITH ONE HAND instantly (HE DID THAT BOTH IN MANGA AND ANIME AGAINST MADARAS METERORS) so 4000clones each amped with 6 bijuu rasenshi (pls GUYS NOTE JUST ONE BIJUU RASENSHIRUKEN BLAST AND POWER RANGE WAS 4 TIMES LAGER THAN ONE METEOR AND TO TELL HOW BIG THE METEORS WERE..TINY BITS OF IT THAT SASUKE CUT DWARFED LARGE MOUNTAIN RANGES so explain how wonderwoman survives attack of that magnitude continuesly since its infinite chakra.. 4000clones X 6 TBRS =24000bijuu rasenshiruken.NOTE THEY ARE CELLULAR ATTACKS . BLOODY HELL HONESTLY I DON'T SEE NEW 52 SUPES SURVIVING THAT ATTACK OF THAT MAGNITUDE CONTINUOUSLY... GUYS ANYONE CARE TO ELABORATE?????? Lol wknderwoman barely survived a nuclear explosion with superman shielding her... I don't see her tanking just 3 of those tbrs talk more of 24000 and coming continually

A few things.

1. chill. respect other's opinions. I think naruto can hold his own against ww, but other people disagree, so I debate over it. nothing more

2. he doesn't have infinite chakra. naruto has limits and he can't do everything.

3. this is about saitama, not ww. if you want to debate about naruto vs ww, there's over 50 of them.

back on topic, Naruto has a good chance if he's smart, but in a straight out fight, saitama would kill him.

however, I would like to point something out.

after he defeated toneri, the moon was still falling, and the tenseigan was destroyed, so toneri couldn't do anything. this means the only person who could put the moon back... was naruto. I don't know how, but Naruto was the only one available at the moment. this means that naruto literally moved the moon back into orbit.

As stupid as it sounds, it's the only explanation.

Avatar image for higherpower
#453 Edited by HigherPower (11983 posts) - - Show Bio

@sladerulez:

Don't respond to people who don't know how to format paragraphs lol... especially if they spam sentences in all caps lololol

@marc_55@hulkage@thedarkpaladin@great_black_star

That being said current Saitama is confirmed planet level

Saitama saying he'd destroy the earth
Saitama saying he'd destroy the earth

Saitama saying he'd destroy the earth"End up destroying the earth", which means unintentionally, which means if his objective was to planet bust he could. This, along with databook statements of Boros' beam (which he fodderized, whilst holding back) along with Murata's statements that saitama could probably blow up the earth, makes for 3 separate accounts that indicate Saitama is planet level.

Now before you say feats are everything, remember Kaguya never actually busted a planet, but had statements and databook evidence supporting so. Saitama has just the same amount of evidence, so not accepting that Saitama is planet level is blatant denial and lowball.

So as for right now, I don't see anything stopping caped baldy from spamming serious punches and fodderizing Naruto

Avatar image for chaos239
#454 Posted by Chaos239 (5081 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for sladerulez
#455 Posted by sladerulez (10000 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_vulcan: yeah, I know what you mean. because opm is still a young franchise, so they still have a lot of room to grow.

and when it comes to statements, there are always going to be hyperboles and exaggerations. it just matters if people can tell which are or aren't true.

Avatar image for sladerulez
#456 Posted by sladerulez (10000 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_vulcan: btw, that saitama looks so badass and intimidating.

I'd die if i saw him coming towards me.

Avatar image for gaoron
#457 Posted by Gaoron (7665 posts) - - Show Bio

Where are the light fang feats and planet level Naruto calcs?

Saitama wins.

Avatar image for sladerulez
#458 Posted by sladerulez (10000 posts) - - Show Bio

@gaoron: those naruto fans are growing scarce. naruto fans are getting more common sense.

Avatar image for hulkage
#459 Posted by Hulkage (5322 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_vulcan: The difference is that Kaguya was going to destroy the dimensions she created and given the feats that gudoudama already possessed it was logical. Just because there are statements made by the character and in the databook doesn't make it debatable. Madara's sword swing was had the ability to destroy all creation according to statements and the databook but we can't take it at face value because by feats he hasn't shown that level of power. It makes sense for Kaguya to be able to destroy a dimension seeing as she created at least 6 of them.

Avatar image for higherpower
#460 Edited by HigherPower (11983 posts) - - Show Bio

@hulkage: I understand, that's basically what @sladerulez said, that you have to be able to recognize the difference between hyperbole and fact.

Kaguya's dimensions extend beyond just the planets shown, they have stars in them too, and she's been stated to be able to destroy and recreate them but does that mean she's a solar system level character? And if she was, would she really have trouble with a moon lvl duo? There have been many naruto fanboys who've made the case Kaguya would've defeated team 7 quite easily, and it's true. She had many ways to defeat them, and quite frankly lost to PIS.

Also, the Expansive TSB has considerable charge time, and it requires absorbing the chakra from all of those captured by the God tree so it's not even really practical in battle.

Now I don't want to go too off-topic with Kaguya, but as for my original question, is there anything stopping Saitama from spamming serious punches? Which are all potentially planet level?

Avatar image for hulkage
#461 Edited by Hulkage (5322 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_vulcan: Is there any reason to think that he would tag Naruto? He had superior combat speed and precog to boot. Not to mention that Saitamas best striking feat which was against Boros attack isn't more impressive that cutting the moon in half they are actually nearly the same amount of force and Naruto literally took no damage from one so I don't see why a couple more attacks of that level would make much of a difference.

Avatar image for thedarkpaladin
#462 Posted by Thedarkpaladin (22886 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_vulcan: I'm pretty sure the databook statement for Boros' Roar Cannon can also be interpreted as "shaving the Earth", which would go along with the official translation of the manga - the primary source material.

Avatar image for higherpower
#463 Edited by HigherPower (11983 posts) - - Show Bio

@hulkage: It doesn't have to really, the AOE of Saitama's serious punches are continental

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4
Scans are backwards for some reason, go right to left

Because of the range of Saitama's serious punches, all he really has to do is get within a couple meters and spam them, which he could definitely do, and Naruto will be affected.

And I place both Saitama and Naruto at relativistic so I never bothered debating their speeds. Naruto is relativistic for dodging LF and blitzing Madara, and Saitama is relativistic as well. You might be wondering how I place Saitama at relativistic so I'll break it down.

Many people believe Saitama's best feat is his moon jump, which is sub-relativistic, but I don't go off that. Boros kicked Saitama to the moon at 80% the speed of light, which suggest he has a relativistic combat speed. Saitama is infinitely and abundantly more powerful than Boros in every single way, including speed (whether it be combat, reaction, travel, or short burst speed) So Saitama could blitz Boros whilst holding back if he wanted to, so when he's fighting casually he's sub-relativistic, serious he should at least relativistic.

So let's just assume they're the same speed, to avoid speed arguments. With that factor gone, Saitama has greater DC and AOE (if we assume he's planet lvl) and the durability similar to Naruto's.

Naruto wins in terms of durability and hax I'll give you that, but all of Naruto's ranged attacks would just get blown away with the shockwaves of his punches like Boros. While this is an awesome fight, I'll give it to Saitama t the end of the day. Naruto's only chance is TSB.

Avatar image for purpledeadragon
#464 Posted by PurpleDeaDragon (2116 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_vulcan: I'm pretty sure the databook statement for Boros' Roar Cannon can also be interpreted as "shaving the Earth", which would go along with the official translation of the manga - the primary source material.

To be fair, shouldn't there be two canons? One Canon and Murata's Canon? I've read the two versions and there are many differences, not only in the plot, but in the power depiction.

Murata's version is the one with better feats. and he is the one who said Saitama could destroy the Planet, it depends on what version you are using I guess.

Avatar image for higherpower
#465 Edited by HigherPower (11983 posts) - - Show Bio

@thedarkpaladin said:

@god_vulcan: I'm pretty sure the databook statement for Boros' Roar Cannon can also be interpreted as "shaving the Earth", which would go along with the official translation of the manga - the primary source material.

I've only seen one translation for the databook, the headline for collapsing star roar cannon is shave the earth, but in the description of the attack it's stated it could bust it. In fact, a dude on reddit specifically broke down the parts of the databook that contradicted between shave the planet and destroy

And the webcomic is the primary source material, but it says pretty much the same thing

@purpledeadragon said:

To be fair, shouldn't there be two canons? One Canon and Murata's Canon? I've read the two versions and there are many differences, not only in the plot, but in the power depiction.

Murata's version is the one with better feats. and he is the one who said Saitama could destroy the Planet, it depends on what version you are using I guess.

Yes they're both canon. There are extra arcs in the manga that weren't in the webcomic (Suiryu and the martial arts torunament, as well as characters from Monster Association like Gouketsu) There are some differences in the Sea King arc as well as the meteor arc too. But all of the extra chapters and characters featured in the manga and not in the webcomic were written and verified by ONE, so they're all 100% canon. Murata just draws them

Avatar image for icedemonking
#466 Posted by IceDemonKing (9977 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_vulcanI would give it to satiama. Especially against this Naruto. Naruto's best chance are TSB and those take to long to take effect.

Avatar image for higherpower
#467 Edited by HigherPower (11983 posts) - - Show Bio

@jaycool2: The funny thing is an argument can be made for both sides. The match can go either way depending on who's debating.

I could easily just as well make an argument for why Naruto could stomp Saitama

However the strategy I'm thinking would only work on an in-character Saitama, not a serious/bloodlusted one.

Avatar image for purpledeadragon
#468 Posted by PurpleDeaDragon (2116 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_vulcan: thanks, I did not know ONE was supervising the extra chapters. then yes, there are two Canons. I am eager to see how Murata depicts Garou's power, because in the web comic it wasn't that great.

Avatar image for thedarkpaladin
#469 Posted by Thedarkpaladin (22886 posts) - - Show Bio

@thedarkpaladin said:

@god_vulcan: I'm pretty sure the databook statement for Boros' Roar Cannon can also be interpreted as "shaving the Earth", which would go along with the official translation of the manga - the primary source material.

To be fair, shouldn't there be two canons? One Canon and Murata's Canon? I've read the two versions and there are many differences, not only in the plot, but in the power depiction.

Murata's version is the one with better feats. and he is the one who said Saitama could destroy the Planet, it depends on what version you are using I guess.

Murata is just the illustrator of the manga while ONE is still considered the author. He cannot make any changes to the manga, which is basically a rewrite of the story, without ONE's approval.

@thedarkpaladin said:

@god_vulcan: I'm pretty sure the databook statement for Boros' Roar Cannon can also be interpreted as "shaving the Earth", which would go along with the official translation of the manga - the primary source material.

I've only seen one translation for the databook, the headline for collapsing star roar cannon is shave the earth, but in the description of the attack is it could bust it. In fact, a dude on reddit specifically broke down the parts of the databook that contradicted between shave the planet and destroy

And the webcomic is the primary source material, but it says pretty much the same thing

I'm looking at the post in your link, and the guy who created the thread seems to be saying the kanji used for "destroy" doesn't mean blowing up or bust in this context. Unless you're talking about a different comment.

The manga is just the rewritten version of the webcomic with added material.

Avatar image for higherpower
#470 Edited by HigherPower (11983 posts) - - Show Bio

@thedarkpaladin: The guy in the link means despite it said destroy, Boros beam is only able to wipe the surface, not actually blow it up. Wiping the surface means destroying the crust, which includes every ocean, mountain, landmass, and creation on the surface.

I place Boros at multi-continental+, which is my entire point. Saitama doesn't need to be planet lvl to win, he cleaved through a multi-contintal attack while holding back which is >>>>>> toneri's sword. If he spams them he can negate all of Naruto's ranged attacks as well and ultimately get the win.

The manga is verified by one so you can use to for canon too.

Avatar image for purpledeadragon
#471 Posted by PurpleDeaDragon (2116 posts) - - Show Bio

@purpledeadragon said:
@thedarkpaladin said:

@god_vulcan: I'm pretty sure the databook statement for Boros' Roar Cannon can also be interpreted as "shaving the Earth", which would go along with the official translation of the manga - the primary source material.

To be fair, shouldn't there be two canons? One Canon and Murata's Canon? I've read the two versions and there are many differences, not only in the plot, but in the power depiction.

Murata's version is the one with better feats. and he is the one who said Saitama could destroy the Planet, it depends on what version you are using I guess.

Murata is just the illustrator of the manga while ONE is still considered the author. He cannot make any changes to the manga, which is basically a rewrite of the story, without ONE's approval.

A rewrite that adds entire arcs that were not part of the original web comic, and it even added the Saitama being punched to the Moon scene which was not in the original, if ONE really approved those parts that were not part of his work then wouldn't that be a different canon? because all of that is not to be found in the web comic, that's already a change.

Avatar image for thedarkpaladin
#472 Posted by Thedarkpaladin (22886 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_vulcan:

The guy in the link means despite it said destroy, Boros beam is only able to wipe the surface, not actually blow it up. Wiping the surface means destroying the crust, (which includes every ocean, mountain, landmass, and creation on the surface.

My point exactly. The term destroy in this context doesn't necessarily mean the attack was going to bust the Earth - it can correspond to what was said in the manga. I only brought this up because you were using it as evidence Satiama could planet bust a few posts above.

I place Boros at multi-continental+, which is my entire point. Saitama doesn't need to be planet lvl to win, he cleaved through a multi-contintal attack while holding back which is >>>>>> toneri's sword. If he spams them he can negate all of Naruto's ranged attacks as well and ultimately get the win.

Surface wiping would fall into the petaton range. Toneri's sword was able to slice through the entire moon, although it didn't overcome the gravitational binding energy, making the feat less impressive than moon busting. Naruto took this attack head on and didn't' suffer any noticeable injuries. And to top it all off, he wasn't anywhere close to full power at the time, as he was fighting Toneri in KCM mode with only a portion of Kurama's Chakra. Naruto's reaction/combat speed and precognition would also help him immensely in this fight.

The manga is verified by one so you can use to for canon too

ONE is still the author of the manga. Like I said before, it's just a remake of the webcomic.

Avatar image for thedarkpaladin
#473 Posted by Thedarkpaladin (22886 posts) - - Show Bio

@thedarkpaladin said:
@purpledeadragon said:
@thedarkpaladin said:

@god_vulcan: I'm pretty sure the databook statement for Boros' Roar Cannon can also be interpreted as "shaving the Earth", which would go along with the official translation of the manga - the primary source material.

To be fair, shouldn't there be two canons? One Canon and Murata's Canon? I've read the two versions and there are many differences, not only in the plot, but in the power depiction.

Murata's version is the one with better feats. and he is the one who said Saitama could destroy the Planet, it depends on what version you are using I guess.

Murata is just the illustrator of the manga while ONE is still considered the author. He cannot make any changes to the manga, which is basically a rewrite of the story, without ONE's approval.

A rewrite that adds entire arcs that were not part of the original web comic, and it even added the Saitama being punched to the Moon scene which was not in the original, if ONE really approved those parts that were not part of his work then wouldn't that be a different canon? because all of that is not to be found in the web comic, that's already a change.

Well, ONE is still considered the author of the story. Is there any reason to assume these changes didn't come from him? It's like the DBS manga, which is worked on by both Toriyama and Toyotaro. Of course, there are differences between the webcomic and the rewritten manga, but I'm not seeing what that has to do with my point. The manga still falls under the category of ONE's canon.

Avatar image for aimless
#474 Posted by Aimless (2047 posts) - - Show Bio

Still Saitama

Avatar image for purpledeadragon
#475 Posted by PurpleDeaDragon (2116 posts) - - Show Bio

@purpledeadragon said:
@thedarkpaladin said:
@purpledeadragon said:
@thedarkpaladin said:

@god_vulcan: I'm pretty sure the databook statement for Boros' Roar Cannon can also be interpreted as "shaving the Earth", which would go along with the official translation of the manga - the primary source material.

To be fair, shouldn't there be two canons? One Canon and Murata's Canon? I've read the two versions and there are many differences, not only in the plot, but in the power depiction.

Murata's version is the one with better feats. and he is the one who said Saitama could destroy the Planet, it depends on what version you are using I guess.

Murata is just the illustrator of the manga while ONE is still considered the author. He cannot make any changes to the manga, which is basically a rewrite of the story, without ONE's approval.

A rewrite that adds entire arcs that were not part of the original web comic, and it even added the Saitama being punched to the Moon scene which was not in the original, if ONE really approved those parts that were not part of his work then wouldn't that be a different canon? because all of that is not to be found in the web comic, that's already a change.

Well, ONE is still considered the author of the story. Is there any reason to assume these changes didn't come from him? It's like the DBS manga, which is worked on by both Toriyama and Toyotaro. Of course, there are differences between the webcomic and the rewritten manga, but I'm not seeing what that has to do with my point. The manga still falls under the category of ONE's canon.

I see your point, but the added scenes, new characters, and new entire arcs already change the story enough to be considered a different canon to the original Web Comic, I just called them ONE´s Canon and Murata´s Canon because I didn't feel like calling both ONE's canon when Murata has obviously added so many new things to the story. I mean, I don't believe ONE is constantly giving all the ideas to Murata while making his Web Comic.

Avatar image for beaconofstrength
#476 Posted by BeaconofStrength (12487 posts) - - Show Bio

Naruto.

Avatar image for thedarkpaladin
#477 Edited by Thedarkpaladin (22886 posts) - - Show Bio

@purpledeadragon: I consider it more of an updated version to the original story. Basically, both ONE and Murata discuss whatever extra content that gets included into the manga:

--How do you two work together during the writing process? Does ONE-sensei create new storyboards?

Murata: With the main storyline or anything else where I’m going off of ONE-sensei’s original, I’m generally given free reign with page distribution and whatnot. But I’ll ask ONE-sensei if I have any questions.

ONE: That’s right.

Murata: For the main storyline, the dialogue stays pretty much the same. But with side-stories, sometimes I’ll try adding in scenes to ONE-sensei’s storyboards, or change the dialogue up a bit. In such cases, I’ll always ask ONE-sensei’s opinion. We’ll go back and forth fine-tuning it…and sometimes it’ll just end up reverting back to how it was in the beginning (laughs).

ONE: Murata-sensei always shows me whenever he thinks up new scenes or dialogue to add. For instance, with the A-Class hero Spring Mustachio, my storyboards just had his name and general appearance. He talked a bit and got beat up by the monster, nothing more. I didn’t plan to highlight what weapons he used or anything like that; that part was really cut short. But the storyboards Murata-sensei came up with featured him using his weapon against the monster, showing off his fighting chops so that the monster looked even more impressive by comparison. It was fantastic!

Murata: When I heard his weapon was a fencing (14) rapier (15), it reminded me of that cool swordsman from Wheels on Meals (*16). Sometimes it’s fun to add in more action like that.

So while ONE may not be responsible for all the new ideas, character designs, etc., he still has a hand in them one way or another. Murata won't just make a change to the story without consulting ONE first.

Avatar image for icedemonking
#478 Posted by IceDemonKing (9977 posts) - - Show Bio

@jaycool2: The funny thing is an argument can be made for both sides. The match can go either way depending on who's debating.

I could easily just as well make an argument for why Naruto could stomp Saitama

However the strategy I'm thinking would only work on an in-character Saitama, not a serious/bloodlusted one.

That s how debates go. You wanna do one with saitama vs Naruto against me? I'm pretty bad imo tbh.

Avatar image for purpledeadragon
#479 Posted by PurpleDeaDragon (2116 posts) - - Show Bio

@purpledeadragon: I consider it more of an updated version to the original story. Basically, both ONE and Murata discuss whatever extra content that gets included into the manga:

--How do you two work together during the writing process? Does ONE-sensei create new storyboards?

Murata: With the main storyline or anything else where I’m going off of ONE-sensei’s original, I’m generally given free reign with page distribution and whatnot. But I’ll ask ONE-sensei if I have any questions.

ONE: That’s right.

Murata: For the main storyline, the dialogue stays pretty much the same. But with side-stories, sometimes I’ll try adding in scenes to ONE-sensei’s storyboards, or change the dialogue up a bit. In such cases, I’ll always ask ONE-sensei’s opinion. We’ll go back and forth fine-tuning it…and sometimes it’ll just end up reverting back to how it was in the beginning (laughs).

ONE: Murata-sensei always shows me whenever he thinks up new scenes or dialogue to add. For instance, with the A-Class hero Spring Mustachio, my storyboards just had his name and general appearance. He talked a bit and got beat up by the monster, nothing more. I didn’t plan to highlight what weapons he used or anything like that; that part was really cut short. But the storyboards Murata-sensei came up with featured him using his weapon against the monster, showing off his fighting chops so that the monster looked even more impressive by comparison. It was fantastic!

Murata: When I heard his weapon was a fencing (14) rapier (15), it reminded me of that cool swordsman from Wheels on Meals (*16). Sometimes it’s fun to add in more action like that.

So while ONE may not be responsible for all the new ideas, character designs, etc., he still has a hand in them one way or another. Murata won't just make a change to the story without consulting ONE first.

I see, but my point was there are two canons. If the updated version is canon as the old one then that makes two canon and those are two versions of the same story, but with differences, even if the differences are just added content. The Saitama from ONE doesn't have feats as impressive as Murata's version, Boro's attack in the Webcomic is not as impressive as in the remake, and the whole splitting the clouds think is not in the original Webcomic... Or I dont' remember it there.

Avatar image for bowlt_swagg_320
#480 Posted by bowlt_swagg_320 (2205 posts) - - Show Bio

Saitama

Avatar image for thedarkpaladin
#481 Edited by Thedarkpaladin (22886 posts) - - Show Bio

@purpledeadragon: Technically, yes. There are two canons (three if you include the anime, although it's not made by the same people) - the original webcomic that was written by ONE, and the remake of the original webcomic, i.e., the manga, which is also written by ONE, but illustrated by Murata. Ultimately, they're both still ONE's canon.

Avatar image for purpledeadragon
#482 Posted by PurpleDeaDragon (2116 posts) - - Show Bio

@purpledeadragon: Technically, yes. There are two canons (three if you include the anime, although it's not made by the same people) - the original webcomic that was written by ONE, and the remake of the original webcomic, i.e., the manga, which is also written by ONE, but illustrated by Murata. Ultimately, they're both still ONE's canon.

Ok. I would call the second one, ONE-Murata´s Canon though, I respect Murata's art, and that already gives him lots of credit for me.

Avatar image for icedemonking
#483 Posted by IceDemonKing (9977 posts) - - Show Bio

Off topic: For some reason ONE reminds me of L from Death Note

Avatar image for thedarkpaladin
#484 Posted by Thedarkpaladin (22886 posts) - - Show Bio

@thedarkpaladin said:

@purpledeadragon: Technically, yes. There are two canons (three if you include the anime, although it's not made by the same people) - the original webcomic that was written by ONE, and the remake of the original webcomic, i.e., the manga, which is also written by ONE, but illustrated by Murata. Ultimately, they're both still ONE's canon.

Ok. I would call the second one, ONE-Murata´s Canon though, I respect Murata's art, and that already gives him lots of credit for me.

Seems fair enough.

Avatar image for higherpower
#485 Edited by HigherPower (11983 posts) - - Show Bio

@thedarkpaladin: No, cutting a moon in half does not require more energy than destroying Earth's crust, unless it does, then I'd like to see where you got the information from. Not that it matters because the moon had hollow spaces, and Saitama is planet level anyway.

As for the speed, I don't think it's a factor in this fight, neither of them have a significant speed advantage over the other. They're both relativistic, so speed shouldn't really be debated because they're equal.

Yes, both the manga and Web comic are original canons, and 100% authentic because ONE wrote both.

Avatar image for thedarkpaladin
#486 Posted by Thedarkpaladin (22886 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_vulcan:

No, cutting a moon in half does not require more energy than destroying Earth's crust, unless it does, then I'd like to see where you got the information from.

Mind showing me where I said this?

Not that it matters because the moon had hollow spaces,

Having hollow spaces wouldn't change the significance of that feat in any way. Not unless you can prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that the majority of the moon was hollow.

and Saitama is planet level anyway.

Planet level in what way? If you're trying to say he's able to bust a planet like you were arguing earlier, the only evidence you have for this is a scan that's clearly not meant to be taken literally, and Murata saying he might be able to destroy the Earth, which is vague at best. Would you argue that Yusuke from Yu Yu Hakusho is planet level simply because Genkai said he could obliterate the world if he got sick of it? At some point, you would have to distinguish figurative statements from literal ones.

As for the speed, I don't think it's a factor in this fight, neither of them have a significant speed advantage over the other. They're both relativistic, so speed shouldn't really be debated because they're equal.

Naruto's speed feats are quantifiably superior to Saitama's, if we're being completely honest here. Most of Saitama's rely on instances with no given timeframe, and when it comes to reaction speed, Naruto is undoubtedly superior thanks to his Sage Sensing.

Yes, both the manga and Web comic are original canons, and 100% authentic because ONE wrote both

Which is precisely my point.

Avatar image for higherpower
#487 Edited by HigherPower (11983 posts) - - Show Bio

@thedarkpaladin

Mind showing me where I said this?

I assumed that's what you were implying by restricting Boros' energy beam to the petaton "range" and then going in depth to describe how powerful Toneri's sword was, and how Naruto tanked it. All of which would have been pointless if you knew that Boros' beam was more powerful than Toneri's sword, which you do. So Saitama cleaving through it is more impressive than Naruto doing the same, unless of course you want to prove that Golden Wheel Rebirth Explosion is more powerful than Roar Canon.

Having hollow spaces wouldn't change the significance of that feat in any way.

Wow... not only is that incorrect, it seems as though your opinion must have changed significantly since the beginning of the thread. A solid moon has more mass than a hollow moon, so yes, having hollow spaces that stretch throughout the entire moon do in fact change the feat significantly.

Not unless you can prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that the majority of the moon was hollow.

There is a thread dedicated to that. But the most blatant evidence are that match cuts that follow Toneri's sword through the diameter of the moon

No Caption Provided

Cuts the moon into two equal halves, through the diameter of the moon, which is too deep for it to be limited to the crust. And never once does the sword go through solid material other than the crust, so where did all that empty space in the middle of the moon go?

Planet level in what way? If you're trying to say he's able to bust a planet like you were arguing earlier, the only evidence you have for this is a scan that's clearly not meant to be taken literally, and Murata saying he might be able to destroy the Earth, which is vague at best. Would you argue that Yusuke from Yu Yu Hakusho is planet level simply because Genkai said he could obliterate the world if he got sick of it? At some point, you would have to distinguish figurative statements from literal ones.

And punching through Boros' beam while holding back?? You have to remember that this is a morals off Saitama. And even if Saitama isn't planet buster then so what? Naruto is moon level despite not being able to bust a moon, by feats his most powerful attacks are multi-continental, which Saitama can pull out of his ass. And Naruto is labeled moon level for creating one with Sasuke, and neither of them could ever do it again even if they wanted to, which would technically he's half-moon level, which doesn't even matter because he can never use it ever again anyways.

Naruto's speed feats are quantifiably superior to Saitama's, if we're being completely honest here. Most of Saitama's rely on instances with no given timeframe, and when it comes to reaction speed, Naruto is undoubtedly superior thanks to his Sage Sensing.

In reaction speed he is undoubtedly superior, in combat speed he is not. Did you see my reasoning for Saitama being relativistic when I was debating against Hulkage? Speed is pretty much a tossup, but neither is blitzing, and neither has a significant speed advantage over the other to credit their win to speed alone

Avatar image for magnetox
#488 Posted by MagnetoX (22 posts) - - Show Bio

Naruto loses badly to Saitama obviously.

Avatar image for kingzod
#489 Posted by KingZod (3820 posts) - - Show Bio

Toss up but Saitama takes the majority

Avatar image for purpledeadragon
#490 Posted by PurpleDeaDragon (2116 posts) - - Show Bio

@jaycool2 said:

Off topic: For some reason ONE reminds me of L from Death Note

Why?

Avatar image for icedemonking
#491 Posted by IceDemonKing (9977 posts) - - Show Bio

@jaycool2 said:

Off topic: For some reason ONE reminds me of L from Death Note

Why?

Just that I've never seen his face and that he doesn't refer to himself by his actual name, instead he calls himself ONE. I haven't finished DN yet btw so take that into consideration(but I did look at what happens in the future).

Avatar image for purpledeadragon
#492 Posted by PurpleDeaDragon (2116 posts) - - Show Bio

@jaycool2 said:
@purpledeadragon said:
@jaycool2 said:

Off topic: For some reason ONE reminds me of L from Death Note

Why?

Just that I've never seen his face and that he doesn't refer to himself by his actual name, instead he calls himself ONE. I haven't finished DN yet btw so take that into consideration(but I did look at what happens in the future).

I see. I thought you had a picture of him or something.

Avatar image for icedemonking
#493 Posted by IceDemonKing (9977 posts) - - Show Bio

@purpledeadragon: Lol, if I did I wouldn't have made that comment. I looked him up for pictures online and got nothing.

Avatar image for thedarkpaladin
#494 Edited by Thedarkpaladin (22886 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_vulcan:

I assumed that's what you were implying by restricting Boros' energy beam to the petaton "range" and then going in depth to describe how powerful Toneri's sword was, and how Naruto tanked it. All of which would have been pointless if you knew that Boros' beam was more powerful than Toneri's sword, which you do. So Saitama cleaving through it is more impressive than Naruto doing the same, unless of course you want to prove that Golden Wheel Reincarnation Explosion is more powerful than Collapsing Star Roaring Canon

Because that's the amount of energy needed to wipe the surface of the Earth, unless you have something to say otherwise, which, of course, you shouldn't, because that's exactly what's required to do so, same with Toneri's feat. And bringing up a showing for Naruto's durability while in a much weaker state isn't pointless... Especially since he took the brunt of the attack without so much as batting an eye the first time it was used.

Wow... not only is that incorrect, it seems as though your opinion must have changed significantly since the beginning of the thread. A solid moon has more mass than a hollow moon, so yes, having hollow spaces that stretch throughout the entire moon do in fact change the feat significantly.

Nice job misconstruing my words there by breaking up a relatively short post on the matter. I said having hollow spaces wouldn't change the significance of the feat in any way. Not hollow spaces that stretch across the entire moon, which is a blatant assumptions on your part. If you're going to reply to one of my posts, it's best you reply to the entire thing.

There is a thread dedicated to that. But the most blatant evidence are that match cuts that follow Toneri's sword through the diameter of the moon Cuts the moon into two equal halves, through the diameter of the moon, which is too deep for it to be limited to the crust. And never once does the sword go through solid material other than the crust, so where did all that empty space in the middle of the moon go?

I'm not sure you understand just how big the moon actually is. "All that empty space" we see in the gif doesn't account for much at all when compared to its overall volume. Heck, the mantle alone is about 1,000 kilometers thick. Just how much empty space do you think we're looking at?

An punching through Boros' beam while holding back??

What about it? We're talking about planet busting here - countering a surface wiping attack doesn't even begin to compare to the amount of energy needed to overcome the Earth's gravitational binding energy - It's actually far less impressive than moon busting. Speculating on how much he was holding back won't help your case either, as that punch is the only thing we have to go by feat wise.

You have to remember that this is a morals off Saitama.

I'm well aware that he's morals off. What does that have to do with evidence for him being a planet buster?

And even if Saitama isn't planet buster then so what?

...Then you shouldn't have made the assertion, seeing as it's unbacked by any substantial evidence.

Naruto is moon level despite not being able to bust a moon, by feats his most powerful attacks are multi-continental, which Saitama can pull out of his ass. And Naruto is labeled moon level for creating one with Sasuke, and neither of them could ever do it again even if they wanted to, which would tecnically he's half-moon level, which doesn't even matter because he can never use it ever again anyways.

Naruto actually has feats to put him in the half-moon level neighborhood, which is already vastly superior to surface wiping. Whether he can use Six Paths Chibaku Tensei again or not is irrelevant - he supplied at least half of the energy needed to rip a moon-sized chunk out of the planet without much effort - they weren't fatigued at all afterwards. The seal on his hand disappearing afterwards doesn't minimize the feat in any way.

In reaction speed he is undoubtedly superior, in combat speed he is not. Did you see my reasoning for Saitama being relativistic when I was debating against Hulkage? Speed is pretty much a tossup, but neither is blitzing, and neither has a significant speed advantage over the other to credit their win to speed alone

His reactions being superior is enough reason to factor speed into the equation. You told Hulkage that Boros kicked Saitama to the moon at 80% the speed of light, correct? Mind telling me where you got that percentage from? Because the feat itself has no stated timeframe to go by. Never said speed alone is the be-all-end-all of this match, but it's certainly worth taking into consideration. Naruto himself has shown great stamina throughout the series, being able to fight a war for days while contributing a 1-tailed cloak to everyone on the battlefield. He also has a plethora of hax and special techniques (some of which operate on a cellular or atomic level) at his disposal which could very easily catch Saitama off guard if utilized properly. Arguing that Saitama would win is one thing, but saying it's a stomp on either side is simply inaccurate.

Avatar image for higherpower
#495 Edited by HigherPower (11983 posts) - - Show Bio

I never expected this would actually turn into a full on debate. But since we've made it this far I guess no turning back.

@thedarkpaladin

Because that's the amount of energy needed to wipe the surface of the Earth, unless you have something to say otherwise, which, of course, you shouldn't, because that's exactly what's required to do so, same with Toneri's feat.

I don't believe that it takes the same amount of energy to cut a moon in half as it does to destroy an earth's crust, but since you're suggesting it, I'd like to see where you get this information from and how you came to that conclusion.

And bringing up a showing for Naruto's durability while in a much weaker state isn't pointless... Especially since he took the brunt of the attack without so much as batting an eye the first time it was used.

That's cool and all, but Saitama has never been hurt, injured, or even felt pain throughout the entire series. So we have no idea how much it would take to put him down, nor even the slightest idea how much it would take to hurt him. But since I don't want to venture into NLF territory, I'll put off an actual durability debate for later. So as off right now I'll say this concerning Saitama's durability: Naruto doesn't have any offensive techniques Saitama can't punch away with the shock wave of a serious strike, unless of course you want to argue that Naruto has more DC than Saitama.

Even the TSB, which is supposed to bypass durability, can be punched through. And 8 Gates Guy has demonstrated that strong enough punches can crack TSB, and Saitama's punches >>>>> Gai's.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

So as of right now, Saitama doesn't really need durability because all of Naruto's offensive attacks will get countered by punches, all of which have multi-continental+ striking power and continental AOE

Nice job misconstruing my words there by breaking my relatively short post on the matter. I said having hollow spaces wouldn't change the significance of the feat in any way. Not hollow spaces that stretch across the entire moon, which is a blatant assumptions on your part. If you're going to reply to one of my posts, it's best you reply to the entire thing.

If the moon being hollow or not doesn't affect the feat in anyway why do so many people argue over it? Is cutting through a solid moon the same as cutting through a partially hollow moon? These are genuine questions I actually want to know. Because if there's no significant difference at all between cutting a 100% solid moon than cutting one with hollow spaces then what the hell?

I'm not sure you understand just how big the moon actually is. "All that empty space" we see in the gif doesn't account for much at all when compared to its overall volume. Heck, the mantle alone is about 1,000 kilometers thick. Just how much empty space do you think we're looking at?

Where do you think Kurama and the Golem were fighting? The other side of the crust obviously. The fell through the crust of the moon from the surface and landed on the inside of the crust opposite of the moon's side they were on. Toneri's sword is longer than the moon's diameter, and stretch through the moon, and there were no solid parts it cut through besides the crust itself, indicating everything in-between (the entire expanse of the diamter) was hollowed out.

What about it? We're talking about planet busting here - countering a surface wiping attack doesn't even begin to compare to the amount of energy needed to overcome the Earth's gravitational binding energy - It's actually far less impressive than moon busting.

I never said surface wiping required the same amount of energy, and idk why you brought up the comparison to moon busting at all, no one in the verse is moonbuster by feats, and definitely not Naruto.

Speculating on how much he was holding back won't help your case either, as that punch is the only thing we have to go by feat wise.

And that punch is also above any attack Naruto has shown feat wise

I'm well aware that he's morals off. What does that have to do with evidence for him being a planet buster?

...Then you shouldn't have made the assertion, seeing as it's unbacked by any substantial evidence.

See this what I was talking about earlier. Kaguya never busted a planet, but has been stated to do so and is backed by the databook. But when Saitama get's similar evidence no one wants to believe he's planet level. I don't really see how you could make a case for that, he said he was gonna do it, has been stated to do if he wanted to, and the databook and secondary canon anime suggest he overcame an attack that was around planet level. Does he actually have to bust a planet to be planet level? Because that wouldn't be fair concerning Naruto is moon level despite not being able to bust one, and Kaguya is planet level despite not having busted one (I can see a case being made for Kaguya, but not naruto, especially since he made half a moon.) So just how much more evidence is needed to satisfy you or people in general that Saitama is planet level?

Naruto actually has feats to put him in the half-moon level neighborhood, which is already vastly superior to surface wiping.

Half-moon is superior to surface wiping? When the continent of Asia has more landmass than an entire, regular, solid moon??

I'd like to see you prove this as well as supply where you get your information from, because I want to know in what universe creating half a moon is superior to multi-continental+ feat, especially when Asia has more landmass than the normal moon, and the multi continental attack was performed whilst holding back.

Whether he can use Six Paths Chibaku Tensei again or not is irrelevant - he supplied at least half of the energy needed to rip a moon-sized chunk out of the planet without much effort - they weren't fatigued at all afterwards.

Pretty sure Saitama was fine after punching the beam too

The seal on his hand disappearing afterwards doesn't minimize the feat in any way.

I never once said it minimized the actual feat, and don't know where you got that from

His reactions being superior is enough reason to factor speed into the equation. You told Hulkage that Boros kicked Saitama to the moon at 80% the speed of light, correct? Mind telling me where you got that percentage from? Becasue the feat itself has no stated timeframe to go by.

Why can't we use the timeframe in the anime? Because depending on whether you assume it's valid or not determine's the worth of my calc. (I used a percentage calculator and just plugged in the numbers lol).

Never said speed alone is the be-all-end-all of this match, but it's certainly worth taking into consideration.

I just said it wasn't worth debating over, because I put them both in the same speed range. Why bother arguing over finer details? Especially ones that won't change the overall outcome of the match? Not to mention, "The light fang argument is inconsistent and it's been debunked too many times to count" which is true.

;)

Naruto himself has shown great stamina throughout the series, being able to fight a war for days while contributing a 1-tailed cloak to everyone on the battlefield.

Saitama has never been fatigued.

He also has a plethora of hax and special techniques,

What notable hax does he have the grants him an advantage besides TSB? Because shadow clones and rasenshuriken won't work.

some of which operate on a cellular or atomic level)

If you're talking about rasenshuriken, there's nothing stopping it, nor any of Naruto's ranged projectile's from being deflected.

at his disposal which could very easily catch Saitama off guard if utilized properly. Arguing that Saitama would win is one thing, but saying it's a stomp on either side is simply inaccurate.

I didn't say it was a stomp. Never said that actually. In fact, I said the opposite of that on post 467:

@god_vulcan said:

@jaycool2: The funny thing is an argument can be made for both sides. The match can go either way depending on who's debating.

I could easily just as well make an argument for why Naruto could stomp Saitama

While you have said this:

@thedarkpaladin said:

@homifried: I wouldn't talk about trollis arguments when you actually think Naruto stands a chance here. The power from Naruto's punch made a small crater in the moon. He won't be able to keep up with someone like Saitama. The light fang argument is inconsistent and it's been debunked too many times to count. To make things worse, this is a morals off Saitama. Naruto gets killed as soon as the fight starts.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Avatar image for marc_55
#496 Posted by Marc_55 (5858 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_vulcan: If Saitama touches a TSB he'll die. He cannot punch through them.

Avatar image for trueaustralian
#497 Posted by TrueAustralian (1186 posts) - - Show Bio

@marc_55: They don't instantaneously kill what they touch.

Avatar image for valmousxii
#498 Posted by ValmousXII (439 posts) - - Show Bio

Saitama stomps.

Avatar image for marc_55
#499 Posted by Marc_55 (5858 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for higherpower
#500 Edited by HigherPower (11983 posts) - - Show Bio
@marc_55 said:

@god_vulcan: If Saitama touches a TSB he'll die. He cannot punch through them.

Of course it will. But he doesn't have to necessarily touch them to crack them. Gai didn't touch them directly, and the force of his punch was mountain level at best, yet Madara flew threw it like a baseball through glass.

And Saitama is morals off this fight, so every single one of his punches will be serious, so I don't see how he won't be able to crack though TSB, or overwhelm them with shockwaves like Guy did with Evening Elephant.