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#201 Posted by TheOriginalOne (4000 posts) - - Show Bio

1. I know the difference between the manga and storm 4. You have a hard time understanding sources.

No, you don't. One is canon while the other is only based on it. The game might have the same story but not the same moves. That is the DIFFERENCE THAT YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND. If the anime give moves to Naruto he didn't have in the manga, THAT IS NOT CANON.

2. I never said it is sub atomic. I said it is Yin and Yang manipulation. O please show me where I was lying? Please show me where I was wanking? I simply stated that the TSB have the properties of Yin and Yang manipulation.

My point was that TSB is not sub-atomic. TSB already have ying-yang release, including all the other chakra natures. You mentioning ying-yang manipulation meant nothing to this debate.

Show me where I mentioned Creation of All Things? You don't seem be very bright. I referenced the manga which describes the properties and effects of Yin and Yang manipulation.

You did in your original comment.... How can you already forget? "The manipulation of creation and nothingness as stated and shown." Now are you going to say you didn't mention it? And are you going to ignore your scans mentioning it as well?

3. Prove the TSB are atomic... tough guy and stop talking shit.

What? What have you been debating here then? Like, are you losing your mind now? TSB is based on all chakra natures, including ying-yang release. It is stronger than Particle, which is only molecular level.

4. Thank you for showing that you have no references or anything to back up your bullshit head canon about them capturing Naruto after he was weakened. Meanwhile in the canon story Naruto disappeared from the attack fired by Momoshiki. As "described" and "shown" in the plot of the manga, novel, and movie.

He disappeared after the bomb exploded. That was it. Not after momo fired it, he was still holding it up. STOP LYING.

5.

No Caption Provided

"At that time, a huge explosion that twists and warps space!.........Naruto, who was occupied by that and turned his back, disappears with a jutsu fired by Momoshiki. He leaves Boruto a smile…"

No explosion wrapped space boy. Naruto could have hit it away like nothing, AS MENTIONED BY SASUKE HIMSELF. Not even Naruto and Sasuke final attacks wrapped space and those attacks made this attack seem like an ant bite. That scene/image was shown just before the bomb exploded and just before Sasuke teleported both Sarada and Boruto out of range. Naruto was captured after while he was weakened from containing it.

IT IS NOT THAT HARD TO UNDERSTAND.

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#202 Posted by Azureus (2581 posts) - - Show Bio

@sivil-law said:

1. I know the difference between the manga and storm 4. You have a hard time understanding sources.

No you don't. One is canon and the other is based on that but includes stuff that is NOT in the original material. You are not understanding this.

2. I never said it is sub atomic. I said it is Yin and Yang manipulation. O please show me where I was lying? Please show me where I was wanking? I simply stated that the TSB have the properties of Yin and Yang manipulation.

And my point was sub-atomic. Ying and Yang has nothing to do with anything here. TSB has only been atomic level and THAT WAS IT.

Show me where I mentioned Creation of All Things? You don't seem be very bright. I referenced the manga which describes the properties and effects of Yin and Yang manipulation.

You literally did in you original comment moron. "The manipulation of creation and nothingness as stated and shown." This is where you mentioned it. How stupid are you? Your scans even mention that? Like come on.....

3. Prove the TSB are atomic... tough guy and stop talking shit.

You already proved it moron... Dust release is only molecular but a TSB combines all chakra natures, including ying-yang release. That makes it stronger than both Jinton and Dust release. That is why I said atomic.

4. Thank you for showing that you have no references or anything to back up your bullshit head canon about them capturing Naruto after he was weakened. Meanwhile in the canon story Naruto disappeared from the attack fired by Momoshiki. As "described" and "shown" in the plot of the manga, novel, and movie.

How do you think that happened child? When he was containing that attack, then kidnapped him at his weakest. Like come on, how hard is this for you to understand?

5. Look here bitch I got a present for you.

No Caption Provided

"At that time, a huge explosion that twists and warps space!.........Naruto, who was occupied by that and turned his back, disappears with a jutsu fired by Momoshiki. He leaves Boruto a smile…"

Hey moron, where does it say that the attack twisted wrapped space? I am still waiting for you to show me that? The jutsu toneri fioreced was just a combiantion iof all chakra natures in the form of a massive

He got that from the screenplay of the Boruto movie...which is canon.

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#203 Posted by TheOriginalOne (4000 posts) - - Show Bio

@azureus: Really? Because it sounds extremely stupid. But thanks for the insight.

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#204 Edited by Sivil-Law (615 posts) - - Show Bio

1. I agree somewhat. Then it would be the move that is not canon. Everything else that stays on point would be canon and can be referenced for visual aid.

2. Mentioning yin yang manipulation changes everything as it is low to mid level reality warping.

3. Thank you for proving that I never mentioned Creation of All Things. I was describing Yin and Yang manipulation which is what the manga describes too. It just so happens that the Creation of All Things falls under Yin Yang manipulation. Hagoromo developed the Creation of All Things jutsu from Yin Yang manipulation. That's like me talking about lightning manipulation and you claiming I mentioned Kirin or Chidori.

No Caption Provided

4. I am debating the TSB are more than atomic while you keep insisting that they are not despite all the feats. As seen when they can harm the otherwise intangible Limbo that's literally in a different dimension. Furthermore Sasuke calls the Limbo version of Madara a shadow. Yin release is often called Shadow style and everything that falls under Yin release is spiritual and intangible.

We have TSB damaging Minato's soul and Limbo Madara which are suppose to be intangible with the latter existing in a different dimension. We have Kaguya who created dimensions via TSB distorting time and space. We have Momoshiki doing the same thing with his attack that transported Naruto.

5. Sorry to do this but in Storm 4 Naruto's Six Paths Rasenshuriken Ultimate Jutsu warped space too. It is pretty much canon that yin yang manipulation or six paths chakra can do this. It is canon that Six Paths chakra can affect space-time to a degree. Storm 4 added nothing new to the capabilities only better VISUALS.

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#205 Edited by TheOriginalOne (4000 posts) - - Show Bio

1. I agree somewhat. Then it would be the move that is not canon. Everything else that stays on point would be canon and can be referenced for visual aid.

Sure but why even use something that people will call you out on. Just use the real thing and no one can call you out on anything.

2. Mentioning yin yang manipulation changes everything as it is low to mid level reality warping.

Sure but you are exaggerating it way out of proportion. It is impressive though.

3. Thank you for proving that I never mentioned Creation of All Things. I was describing Yin and Yang manipulation which is what the manga describes too. It just so happens that the Creation of All Things falls under Yin Yang manipulation. Hagoromo developed the Creation of All Things jutsu from Yin Yang manipulation. That's like me talking about lightning manipulation and you claiming I mentioned Kirin or Chidori.

But you did mention it. You even put the scans up for it....

No Caption Provided

4. I am debating the TSB are more than atomic while you keep insisting that they are not despite all the feats. As seen when they can harm the otherwise intangible Limbo that's literally in a different dimension. Furthermore Sasuke calls the Limbo version of Madara a shadow. Yin release is often called Shadow style and everything that falls under Yin release is spiritual and intangible.

No they are not. The reason they could harm the limbo clones is that they are imped by ying-yang release and so they can be used to neutralize ninjutsu and by extension become impervious to it. That is why they can harm limbo clones.

We have TSB damaging Minato's soul and Limbo Madara which are suppose to be intangible with the latter existing in a different dimension. We have Kaguya who created dimensions via TSB distorting time and space. We have Momoshiki doing the same thing with his attack that transported Naruto.

TSB harming Minato and Limbo Madara just have to do with negating Ninjutus. Only Kaguya TSB could destroy and supposedly recreate a dimension but Naruto's doesn't do that. You can't compare Naruto TSB to Kaguya's.

Momo didn't teleport him with the attack, there is no proof of that.

5. Sorry to do this but in Storm 4 Naruto's Six Paths Rasenshuriken Ultimate Jutsu warped space too. It is pretty much canon that yin yang manipulation or six paths chakra can do this. It is canon that Six Paths chakra can affect space-time to a degree. Storm 4 added nothing new to the capabilities only better VISUALS.

Again, that is non-canon. You just accepted that in your first paragraph. That is filler as that never happened in the manga. Six path chakra can't do any of that, only certain moves can. Kamui, Sasuke teleportation, etc etc. That is just specific moves, not six path chakra. Naruto has nothing in his arsenal that can affect space-time.

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#206 Posted by Jmarshmallow (13840 posts) - - Show Bio

@phantomshepherd: @lambsauce

Goodness these OPM debaters...

Since we're now accepting Word of God, does that mean Kinshiki can now split planets?

-------------------------------------------

Imo, it's just how usually a person thinks/critique a show, after all, we wouldn't have goku vs superman if there wasn't as such, jokes aside of course

it's quite obivious and not a very interesting thread, speaking of DB, i might check in those bloody fans while i'm online

ciao

This kind of attitude is really detrimental to debate, and pretty much counter-productive to what we do here on CV.

Ya'll are still pretty new, so just a word of advice. Feel free to disregard.

@phantomshepherd:

is the same word for planet, and star, it is figurable based of the context is it being used for

There's no star in the context of the manga, it doesn't make sense to be star.

And technically, it means heavenly body.

Either way, star busting would still be above anything the Naruto Universe has shown.

and no, it's officially called collapsing star roaring cannon not collapsing planet roaring cannon, that translations are obiviously fan made or a third party source that's unreliable due to you not posting your sources

My source is the manga.

But fine, let's use the Compus that came with the Blu-Ray of Season One.

No Caption Provided

Again, blast away planets.

i think i'm gonna end it with that note,

Cool cool, GG mate, Saitama clears.

and imo, fiction is based of the real world, of course what helps us understand the real world would help to understand the fake world, it's common sense,

Common sense is realizing that in a world where doing pushups helps you become more powerful than a planet buster, real world logic doesn't apply.

and author's intention doesn't matter, Death of the author is a thing

This is blatantly untrue. WoG does matter, since they're the ones making the feats.

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#207 Posted by Sivil-Law (615 posts) - - Show Bio

@theoriginalone: This is just an endless circle of going back and forth after this I am done.

1.Dont care I can reference anything that is part of the canon.

2. Nope you're just downplaying and ignoring on panel feats. My words can only do so much all I mentioned was Yin and Yang manipulation while the scans showed what the tsb is capable of. Uttering the words Yin and Yang manipulation is not exaggerating.

3.Complete headcanon. It was stated on panel that Six Paths chakra can "HARM" limbo while physical attacks cannot. Literally stating that TSB can do more than physical damage.

Harming something that exist in a different dimension is not the same as nullifying ninjutsu. Limbo also have six paths chakra so they can't be nullified.

Minato's soul is not a jutsu. Stop using that as a scapegoat. It had the ability to harm his soul and kill him. Basic ninjutsu can harm Minato's body but not his soul.

Regardless if you think the TSB accomplished these feats by nullifying ninjutsu via Yin yang manipulation. WHAT MATTERS IS THAT THE TSB ACCOMPLISHED THE FEATS. They had the power TO DO and that is all that matters.

Never said Naruto's tsb could create or destroy dimension. By feats it can affect them.

Momoshiki teleported Naruto with that attack that created his dimension. Which is the same kind of attack as Kaguya's ETSB which functions the same way. It was already stated he sent Naruto into that new dimension with his attack.

Already happened in the Boruto manga, movie, and novel. Same with Kaguya's attack.

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#208 Posted by Jmarshmallow (13840 posts) - - Show Bio

@azureus:

No, you proved nothing. Flashy Flash doesn't even have a feat that sub-relativistic and his fastest move was unleashing several attacks in a millisecond. That's MHS+ at best.

It'd be faster than that depending on how many attacks, but either way the point is that Flash is showcased to be the fastest S Class Hero in the show, and he is literally shocked that Saitama was able to dodge and then react to his LS Slash. There is nothing to suggest it isn't as the name states.

Prove otherwise.

Big Bang Attack obviously isn’t Big Bang level...

According to your logic it is, you just stated that because Flash's attack was called Lightspeed Slash, it proves it is Lightspeed. Stop the double standards.

It's like you're only hearing what you wanna hear.

As I already explained above, Big Bang Attack isn't Big Bang level because it was shown to not have the power of a Big Bang.

Yes it can because Flash who moved his fastest against Monster Garou wasn't LS or even remotely close to it.

Circular logic.

That would just prove that Garou is LS

No rebuttal is needed when no evidence is put forth to begin with...

This is blatantly false. I've put forth scans, evidence, and debate, and all you've done is stick your fingers in your ears and say "No, that doesn't count because I said so."

Yes, a rebuttal is needed, or else why are you on this site.

No one wanted to discuss calcs, just saying kicking Saitama to the moon is not an impressive feat concerning Naruto God-tiers.

Cool, cuz we're past that. We're on planet buster level now.

No, that Databook excerpt proves nothing. I already did my research and that could be translated as destroying the Earth's surface (Shave the Earth Literally), which also corresponds with what was said in the web comic and manga.

Then your research wasn't thorough enough.

Here's the databook in question:

No Caption Provided

And here's the translation for the bottom left portion:

"Collapsing Star Roaring Cannon: Erase/Shave the Earth. The roar of despair!! It is an attack able to destroy Earth."

Yes, the first part where it says "Erase the Earth" can also be translated to "Shave the Earth".

However, the part you skipped was the description of the attack, which says it is an "attack able to destroy Earth."

There, clear as mud. The word for "destroy" in that section can only be translated as destroy.

And if Japanese isn't enough for you, even in the OPM Compus included with the Blu-Ray of Season 1, written by ONE himself, there's this:

No Caption Provided

Blast away entire planets.

So, he is a confirmed planet buster. No way to skirt around that one with the whole "mistranslation" nonsense.

@kingzod:

Now I'm just confused? Weren't we talking about Saitama? I know Boros is a planet buster.

You said I never gave you evidence. So I did so. Boros is a planet buster, Saitama casually one-punched his planet busting attack. This means that Saitama is minimum planet level++ in both strength and durability.

This makes him too strong and too durable for anyone in the Naruto Universe.

Though he's not beating Naruto or Sasuke either.

Unless they have planet level+ feats, yes he is.

Newguys gave you the basic rundown I believe.

His rundown was incorrect.

Anyways there was confusion so it seems irrelevant now

Indeed. Bit of a misunderstanding.

What's there to prove? Saitama has no feats to say he can shrug off a TSB which is superior to dust release that is in turn superior to a rasenshiruken which cuts on a cellular level.

Its never been used on an opponent with planet level durability. So we can't say it would work on Saitama.

Unless you're suggesting it bypasses literally all durability?

In which case, where do we draw the line? Can it beat Goku? Galactus? Lucifer?

Unless Saitama has molecular-atomic disintegration durability feats. TSB is GG

Unless TSB has planet level feats, Saitama one punches it.

@great_black_star:

WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT????????????????????

Solid evidence here, mate. Lol

When did anyone become planetary in OPverse?

Boros has one planetary attack that kills him when he uses it. See here:

No Caption Provided

In the bottom left corner it says, directly translated:

"Collapsing Star Roaring Cannon: Erase/Shave the Earth. The roar of despair!! It is an attack able to destroy Earth."

The part that people get caught up on is the fact that the word for erase can also be used to mean "shave." But this is mostly irrelevant, since a few words later it says "destroy the Earth."

And in case you wanna see more, or you don't like me using a source you can't read, here's an excerpt from the OPM official Compus, included with the Blu-Ray of the Anime and written by ONE, the creator of OPM:

No Caption Provided

"...can blast away entire planets."

Open-shut case. Boros is a planet buster, Saitama casually one-punched his planet busting attack.

And Saitama has no feat against sub-atomic disintegration.

Sub-atomic disintegration has never been used by anyone with planet level durability.

@thenewguysnm1:

What all what i said is wrong i am just using your logic

Non-sequitur.

My claim can be verified from multiple canon sources. If the same can be said for yours, then they're not wrong. If they can't, then your point is irrelevant.

An attack name does not equal its power.Is lightspeedslash LS

Not always. Sometimes they're stylized. In this case, there's no reason to doubt it, given that Flashy Flash was already showcased to be the fastest S class hero.

It didn't destroy a damn thing so im will not accept it as planetary

Then Goku isn't a planet buster.

Galactus isn't universal.

Naruto is not a moon-splitter.

TOAA isn't omnipotent.

Logic, mate. It's important.

Firstly the anime is non cannon

Uh, no. The anime is canon. It doesn't take precedence over the manga, which in turn doesn't take precedence over the webcomic....but its still canon.

secondly it didn't destroy a thing in the anime either a attack name and a doggy guidebook does not make a move Planetary

I don't know what "doggy" means, so I'll assume you mean "dodgy."

And no, an official databook made by the creator of the series isn't dodgy. That's just grasping at straws and refusing to accept it.

But just to show you it wasn't a one-time thing, here's yet another piece of evidence, that was included with the official Blu-Ray of the 1st season of the anime:

No Caption Provided

Show me it actually destroy something

I can't, cuz Saitama punched it.

On panel feats>>>>doggy guidebook

Correct. Feats are more important.

However, the feat is already there. The databook just supplements it.

It doesn't contradict it.

The case is still open i am gonna keep telling you to show me it destroying some thing and your gonna keep giving me attack name.

Guidebooks are usually full of hyperbole and flashy attack names until i see a feat it is the same here.

Lol.

If you literally refuse to accept two canon, official sources that say that Boros is a planet buster, then we have nothing more to discuss here. You're being purposefully obstinate when you know could and well that you can't refute two good sources.

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#209 Edited by deactivated-5b4535a30d95d (209 posts) - - Show Bio

@jmarshmallow:

something tells me that someone missed to read the basics of this battle: Rules

Canon .

No Caption Provided

the guidebook is for the tv show which is inconsistent thus disregarded:

ever heard of Occam's Razor?, if i see a rock, it's a rock, rock breaks, simple as that, concluding something as not what it appears with no canonical evidence is a hitchen razor,

Off-topic: read at your own risk

Spoiler - jokes are not meant to be literal when taken so it is a sign of ASD or asperger and criticizing an illogical hate for a valid form of calculation as an attitude is simply and read this carefully ''RETARDED'' by the literal definition, also give me a break, assuming someone is a new just because of their post number is an attitude by itself, be consistent!

beerus stated his attack would wipe the surface of the planet

the blast did not even remotely close gravitational binding energy level let alone that of which would destroy the planet and was countered by a blast that's measured to be equal to 85 Billion megaton of TNT

was stated to shave the earth in the japanese guidebooks

a name of an attack is not literal by all means.

and now, let's hear yours . . . . . .

a mistranslated guidebook that use the kanji word of planet and star and mix them together, claims saitama and boros attacks as one being plantery while the other being star level which is self contradicatory while also being exlusive to only the tv show.

nuff said

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#210 Posted by TheOriginalOne (4000 posts) - - Show Bio

@theoriginalone: This is just an endless circle of going back and forth after this I am done.

Cool

1.Dont care I can reference anything that is part of the canon.

Good but people will still call you out on it.

2. Nope you're just downplaying and ignoring on panel feats. My words can only do so much all I mentioned was Yin and Yang manipulation while the scans showed what the tsb is capable of. Uttering the words Yin and Yang manipulation is not exaggerating.

No, there was not a single indication that it was more than atomic level.

3.Complete headcanon. It was stated on panel that Six Paths chakra can "HARM" limbo while physical attacks cannot. Literally stating that TSB can do more than physical damage.

TSB can do more damage as they nullify ninjutsu. This is stated on panel as well.

Harming something that exist in a different dimension is not the same as nullifying ninjutsu. Limbo also have six paths chakra so they can't be nullified.

Yes, they can. Why? Because they are like clones but invisible. They are made of CHAKRA. They are a specifc type of jutsu only used by Madara. See - Jutsu.

Minato's soul is not a jutsu. Stop using that as a scapegoat. It had the ability to harm his soul and kill him. Basic ninjutsu can harm Minato's body but not his soul.

No soul was harmed though.... Can you show me a scan of the instant you are talking about?

Regardless if you think the TSB accomplished these feats by nullifying ninjutsu via Yin yang manipulation. WHAT MATTERS IS THAT THE TSB ACCOMPLISHED THE FEATS. They had the power TO DO and that is all that matters.

Yes, but there is context. That doesn't make it above atomic level.

Never said Naruto's tsb could create or destroy dimension. By feats it can affect them.

At a basic level, sure. Nothing else.

Momoshiki teleported Naruto with that attack that created his dimension. Which is the same kind of attack as Kaguya's ETSB which functions the same way. It was already stated he sent Naruto into that new dimension with his attack.

No, he did not. He took Naruto with him to his dimension but the attack didn't do anything. That was a simple attack made of 5 chakra natures. That was it. His plan was to drain Naruto and it worked.

Already happened in the Boruto manga, movie, and novel. Same with Kaguya's attack.

Kaguya ETSB is not the same thing. ETSB was only shown by kaguya, this was just like a very large Bijuu Bomb.

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#211 Posted by deactivated-5b45a50b422a9 (32 posts) - - Show Bio

@finaldeath15: I have debunked the opm verse in 2 cavs i really dont want to do it again he has no piercing feats cellular feats molecular feats or energy feats he didn't tank boros attack he deflected it meaning if it landed he would have died

Except he does have piercing feats. The alien hurled rocks at him so fast it pierced through a ship, a ship that tanked Saitama jumping from the moon. After the rocks are thrown, Saitama is completely undamaged.

Cellular and molecular? So what? What is this trying to prove? He has proven to be durable enough that those things don't matter. The telepathic Tornado couldn't crush him no matter how hard she tried, yet she's pulled a meteor from space, flipped a city sized chunk of land with ease among other feats.

His fist still made contact with the attack, so yes, he simultaneously tanked and overpowered the attack. I think he could have easily tanked it anyway, because when he travelled from the moon to Earth, the temperature in which he travelled was far hotter than the core of the sun. I'll see if I can find the calc for that.

I never said Naruto characters are planetary i said opm characters arent

Ok?

Making after images is not impressive

LOL what? Then what is impressive for you? What about his other feats i mentioned?

Dont tell me he may have jumped from moon to earth in a second give me the confirmed number(it does not exist)

There is no confirmed number, so it could be speculation, but according to the manga it could be 1-3 seconds, because when he jumps back, debris is still falling on to Boros's ship from the moon kick. We can't know how far into Boros's monologue Saitama jumped from, but for a casual jump even jumping from the moon to Earth in 10-20 seconds is impressive, considering the heat he tanked which is way above anything in Naruto that I've seen so far

Saitamas actual feats are pretty unimpressive all he has i faulty scaling some bs guidebooks and head cannon

Care to elaborate?

welcome to cv

@vsw said:

@phantomshepherd: i have absolutely no clue what your saying, anyway I'm pretty sure speed = distance/time.

Newguys wanted a timeframe and I gave him one.

And just so you know, fan calcs like that on CV are generally looked down upon .

Thats no time frame it was just full of assumptions and assertions there is no time frme no matter how much you want there to be there just isnt he gets blitzed

You keep saying he gets blitzed. Care to give any evidence at all for this?

Someone show me a planetary feat.

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#212 Posted by Sivil-Law (615 posts) - - Show Bio

@theoriginalone This should shut you up. If not then you're a confirmed troll.

It is already shown and stated that TSB are above atomic destruction suggesting anything below that is complete headcanon. I am no longer discussing that since you failed to disprove the manga.

TSB can do more damage as they nullify ninjutsu. This is stated on panel as well.

I would like for you to provide some panels then since you have been talking out of your ass this whole time. Meanwhile it was canonically stated that "Six Paths chakra" could harm Limbo. Nothing about your fantasy of nullifying jutsu dummy.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

Further proof of it being Six Paths chakra making it capable to harm Limbo. We see Naruto and Sasuke using six paths chakra enhanced chidori and rasengan to harm and affect Limbo.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3

Nothing about your silly fantasy of nullification.

Yes, they can. Why? Because they are like clones but invisible. They are made of CHAKRA. They are a specifc type of jutsu only used by Madara. See - Jutsu.

You probably never read the Naruto manga. If you did, you would know that TSB cannot nullify senjutsu or six paths sage chakra. Like I said before what are you doing in this thread when you have no knowledge of the series? Possibly trolling.

No soul was harmed though.... Can you show me a scan of the instant you are talking about?

Limbo and Minato. Like I said before Sasuke referred to Limbo as shadows indicating they are spiritual in nature.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

No, he did not. He took Naruto with him to his dimension but the attack didn't do anything. That was a simple attack made of 5 chakra natures. That was it. His plan was to drain Naruto and it worked.

As far as I know Momo doesn't have Kaguya's Amenominaka ability. Nor was it shown that he made a portal. The screenplay states Naruto disappeared by the jutsu fired by Momo.

Kaguya ETSB is not the same thing. ETSB was only shown by kaguya, this was just like a very large Bijuu Bomb.

I agree the ETSB was only shown by Kaguya. However everyone has their own variation and usage of the TSB. Naruto's TSB was stated to be a Bijuu Bomb. Saying it was a very large Bijuu Bomb doesn't change anything. Since Momoshiki has six paths chakra.

No Caption Provided

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#213 Posted by Ultrra (182 posts) - - Show Bio

Stops at 5

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#214 Edited by KingZod (3988 posts) - - Show Bio

@jmarshmallow: "You said I never gave you evidence. So I did so. Boros is a planet buster, Saitama casually one-punched his planet busting attack. This means that Saitama is minimum planet level++ in both strength and durability"

What kind of logic is this? Overpowering a projectile before it detonates does not count for any form of durability. If we applied this logic to all feats then Naruto has moon level strength. Cancelling out an energy attack with physicals does not equals having similar DC or durability of said projectile, at all.

"This makes him too strong and too durable for anyone in the Naruto Universe"

That was a joke of an argument for his durability tbh. His best durability feat is the moon kick which is ROUGHLY island level. He doesn't hold a candle to Naruto in that regard

"Unless they have planet level+ feats, yes he is"

His only planet level feat comes in the form of a last ditch effort attack that drains all his energy. Either of the ninja would end it far before he resorts to that as nothing else he is capable of is even concretely island level.

"His rundown was incorrect"

No it wasn't, if we go the databook route then that's how the debate is going to look like

"Its never been used on an opponent with planet level durability. So we can't say it would work on Saitama"

Good thing he doesn't have planet level durability

"Unless you're suggesting it bypasses literally all durability"

Besides the point and Sai's durability is not to the extent where he can remotely tank it

"In which case, where do we draw the line? Can it beat Goku? Galactus? Lucifer"

These guys are all fodder, Batman should suffice

"Unless TSB has planet level feats, Saitama one punches it"

They don't need to, Saitama touches a TSB and dies

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#215 Posted by vsw (2914 posts) - - Show Bio

@thenewguysnm1 actually thanks to Finaldeath i found a better timeframe(something i missed before), this should please you

No Caption Provided

Due to acceleration of gravity, all things will fall 9.81m/s , and if you know how big 9 Meters is, you know it would take less than 4 seconds for the Debris to land.

Thats Mach 280K

See, no "assumptions" , no "Assertions", just plain old physics

Dont tell me he may have jumped from moon to earth in a second give me the confirmed number(it does not exist)

well due to physics, we now know it was less than 4 seconds.

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#216 Posted by Thenewguysnm1 (7528 posts) - - Show Bio
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#217 Posted by Thenewguysnm1 (7528 posts) - - Show Bio

@vsw: Physics and fiction never work together but i will bite.

I said a confirmed number less then 4 seconds tell me nothing.Give a confirmed number like 1 second or 2.3

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#218 Posted by vsw (2914 posts) - - Show Bio

@thenewguysnm1: the longest the jump could've taken was 4 seconds

So I'll lowball it and say it took 4 seconds.

Bottom line is the jump is above Mach 280k , the "confirmed " number doesn't matter as the lowest speed Saitama could be traveling is Mach 280k

Just to recap: Saitama was travelling faster than Mach 280k so he's not getting blitzed, and stops at 5

So all we know is, Saitama is faster than Mach 280k , and that's all we need to know tbh

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#219 Posted by TheOriginalOne (4000 posts) - - Show Bio

@theoriginalone This should shut you up. If not then you're a confirmed troll.

You already are a troll.

It is already shown and stated that TSB are above atomic destruction suggesting anything below that is complete headcanon. I am no longer discussing that since you failed to disprove the manga.

No you haven't. You just wanked and misinterpreted feats.

I would like for you to provide some panels then since you have been talking out of your ass this whole time. Meanwhile it was canonically stated that "Six Paths chakra" could harm Limbo. Nothing about your fantasy of nullifying jutsu dummy.

Stop being stupid for once in your life. I never denied that it can't. BUT YOU NEED TO UNDERSTAnD WHY THAT IS. TSB nullifies ninjutsu and that it the way it can harm them. Just as it can harm the reanimation.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

Further proof of it being Six Paths chakra making it capable to harm Limbo. We see Naruto and Sasuke using six paths chakra enhanced chidori and rasengan to harm and affect Limbo.

It didn't harm him, it stopped it's movement. The clone was fine. Naruto used a magnetic rasengan to stop its movement. Sigh, again, you have no idea what you are talking about.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3

Nothing about your silly fantasy of nullification.

Yes it does. How do you think it was able to stop the reanimation from regen? How else was it able to block all of the ninjutsu attacks? Like how slow are you?

You probably never read the Naruto manga. If you did, you would know that TSB cannot nullify senjutsu or six paths sage chakra. Like I said before what are you doing in this thread when you have no knowledge of the series? Possibly trolling.

I know it can't, I am talking about regular ninjutsu. Show me where I can't is can nullify senjutsu? Show me? Maybe it is you who needs to read more carefully... Just a thought.

No soul was harmed though.... Can you show me a scan of the instant you are talking about?

Limbo and Minato. Like I said before Sasuke referred to Limbo as shadows indicating they are spiritual in nature.

Sigh, Madara's shadow is NOT A SOUL. For god sakes, STOP LYING SO MUCH. That shadow is a clone of his that is invisible and he only got it because of his special rinnegan ability. THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH SOUL. STOP LYING.

And you minato scan proves what exactly?

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

No, he did not. He took Naruto with him to his dimension but the attack didn't do anything. That was a simple attack made of 5 chakra natures. That was it. His plan was to drain Naruto and it worked.

As far as I know Momo doesn't have Kaguya's Amenominaka ability. Nor was it shown that he made a portal. The screenplay states Naruto disappeared by the jutsu fired by Momo.

He didn't need it..... When Naruto contained the attack, he kidnapped him willy nilly. He and kinshiki had the ability to travel between dimensions, that is how they traveled.

Kaguya ETSB is not the same thing. ETSB was only shown by kaguya, this was just like a very large Bijuu Bomb.

I agree the ETSB was only shown by Kaguya. However everyone has their own variation and usage of the TSB. Naruto's TSB was stated to be a Bijuu Bomb. Saying it was a very large Bijuu Bomb doesn't change anything. Since Momoshiki has six paths chakra.

Naruto can covert his TSB to a bijuu bomb yes but what is your point? Naruto's can't destroy a dimension, far from it. And for the last time, Momo didn't use a TSB in that situation, he just used a simple bomb.

No Caption Provided

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#220 Edited by Sivil-Law (615 posts) - - Show Bio
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#221 Posted by Thenewguysnm1 (7528 posts) - - Show Bio
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#222 Posted by Gaoron (8757 posts) - - Show Bio

@vsw said:

@thenewguysnm1: the longest the jump could've taken was 4 seconds

So I'll lowball it and say it took 4 seconds.

Bottom line is the jump is above Mach 280k , the "confirmed " number doesn't matter as the lowest speed Saitama could be traveling is Mach 280k

Just to recap: Saitama was travelling faster than Mach 280k so he's not getting blitzed, and stops at 5

So all we know is, Saitama is faster than Mach 280k , and that's all we need to know tbh

This, with those kind of speeds Saitama outspeeds anyone in Naruto verse bar maybe Guy while using Night Guy. Saitama is faster and physicaly superior. Outside of genjutsu there's not much that can stop him.

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#223 Edited by Sivil-Law (615 posts) - - Show Bio

@theoriginalone said:

@sivil-law: My head canon? This coming from you who thinks games are canon? What?

What does anytrhing you psoted prove it is above atomic disntegraton? Creating of all things is just a title, NOTHING ELSE. Show me a single statement that says it is atomic level, let alone anything fighter?

"When Obito applied the properties of Yin and Yang style that is when the destructive power of TSB changed. Both Minato and Tobirama confirmed this."

No one is denying this but that doesn't mean it is above atomic level. Stop this bullshit of yours. You don't have single shread of proof to substantiate that. NOT A SINGLE ONE.

"At that time, a huge explosion that twists and warps space! A twosome who call themselves Momoshiki and Kinshiki appear, wrapped in an ominous atmosphere. He wields the Rinnegan in both hands and tenaciously aim to take Naruto’s life. Sasuke protects Boruto, who is petrified and unable to do anything. Naruto, who was occupied by that and turned his back, disappears with a jutsu fired by Momoshiki. He leaves Boruto a smile…"

I know you are stupidbut what does this bullshit prove? Naruto was captured in that fight becasue he used a massive amount of his chakra to contain that blast. He was weakened and easier to capture. Twists and warps space? Are you smoking something?

Stop this bullshit already.

And why are you still posting games gifs? Post something from the manga or get outta here.

@jedixman@juiceboks

@thenewguysnm1 Might as well tag the other user for the same thing.

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#224 Posted by Thenewguysnm1 (7528 posts) - - Show Bio

@gaoron: Alot can stop him cellular attacks,molecular,TP,Energy attacks if it lands,kamui,sealing,soul steal and more that i haven't brought up

@theoriginalone said:

@sivil-law: My head canon? This coming from you who thinks games are canon? What?

What does anytrhing you psoted prove it is above atomic disntegraton? Creating of all things is just a title, NOTHING ELSE. Show me a single statement that says it is atomic level, let alone anything fighter?

"When Obito applied the properties of Yin and Yang style that is when the destructive power of TSB changed. Both Minato and Tobirama confirmed this."

No one is denying this but that doesn't mean it is above atomic level. Stop this bullshit of yours. You don't have single shread of proof to substantiate that. NOT A SINGLE ONE.

"At that time, a huge explosion that twists and warps space! A twosome who call themselves Momoshiki and Kinshiki appear, wrapped in an ominous atmosphere. He wields the Rinnegan in both hands and tenaciously aim to take Naruto’s life. Sasuke protects Boruto, who is petrified and unable to do anything. Naruto, who was occupied by that and turned his back, disappears with a jutsu fired by Momoshiki. He leaves Boruto a smile…"

I know you are stupidbut what does this bullshit prove? Naruto was captured in that fight becasue he used a massive amount of his chakra to contain that blast. He was weakened and easier to capture. Twists and warps space? Are you smoking something?

Stop this bullshit already.

And why are you still posting games gifs? Post something from the manga or get outta here.

@jedixman@juiceboks

@thenewguysnm1 Might as well tag the other user for the same thing.

True.

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#225 Posted by Sivil-Law (615 posts) - - Show Bio

Well I'm done with the vine for about a week. Still got to finish that CAV.

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#226 Posted by Hulkage (5322 posts) - - Show Bio

Only people that Saitama can beat here are Momo and Kinshiki. He should get stomped in every other round.

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#227 Posted by TheOriginalOne (4000 posts) - - Show Bio
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#228 Posted by KingZod (3988 posts) - - Show Bio
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#229 Posted by Azureus (2581 posts) - - Show Bio

@jmarshmallow:

It'd be faster than that depending on how many attacks...

I counted the amount impacts on the scan. That number was lower than 20. The technique was also called Lightspeed fist. Less than 20 attacks in a millisecond, and yet the technique is called Lightspeed fist.

but either way the point is that Flash is showcased to be the fastest S Class Hero in the show...

No proof of his Lightspeed Slash actually being Lightspeed.

and he is literally shocked that Saitama was able to dodge and then react to his LS Slash.

Nothing proves the attack is Lightspeed. It's only a name.

There is nothing to suggest it isn't as the name states.

Lightspeed fist. Took a millisecond to hit Garou with 17 attacks. That is definitely not anywhere near LS despite the name. Prove the technique is Lightspeed.

Prove otherwise.

Again, it's not up to me to prove it. It's you who says Flash is LS and have nothing aside from the name.

It's like you're only hearing what you wanna hear.

That is exactly your train of thought here. Name = Speed/Power.

As I already explained above, Big Bang Attack isn't Big Bang level because it was shown to not have the power of a Big Bang.

Which Big Bang attack are you speaking of? Anyway, if this is your reasoning, what speed feat is there that even substantiates the speed of the technique being that fast.

Circular logic.

How? I think you misunderstood. Read it again.

That would just prove that Garou is LS

I wasn't saying Garou wasn't LS (he isn't btw), I was saying Flash's fastest speed feat wasn't even LS or anywhere close to it.

This is blatantly false. I've put forth scans, evidence, and debate...

You're arguing the name of an attack is literal. That's literally all you're doing. What actual argument have you put forth?

Yes, a rebuttal is needed,

Not when proof is not even put forth.

Cool, cuz we're past that. We're on planet buster Surface wiper level now.

Fixed.

Here's the databook in question:

No Caption Provided

And here's the translation for the bottom left portion:

"Collapsing Star Roaring Cannon: Erase/Shave the Earth. The roar of despair!! It is an attack able to destroy Earth."

Yes, the first part where it says "Erase the Earth" can also be translated to "Shave the Earth".

However, the part you skipped was the description of the attack, which says it is an "attack able to destroy Earth."

Shaving off the Earth's surface fits that description too, I don't know why you're trying to make a distinction where there is none.

There, clear as mud. The word for "destroy" in that section can only be translated as destroy.

I don't see what this changes.

And if Japanese isn't enough for you, even in the OPM Compus included with the Blu-Ray of Season 1, written by ONE himself, there's this:

That guidebook has so many inconsistencies in it.

Blast away entire planets.

Like this one. Are you aware this was referring to sealed Boros?

So, he is a confirmed planet buster.

Not at all. Primary Canon sources have confirmed otherwise. Boros in his strongest state with all of his energy being released at Earth was stated to only destroy the planet's surface.

No way to skirt around that one with the whole "mistranslation" nonsense.

So what have you proven?

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#230 Edited by deactivated-5b45a50b422a9 (32 posts) - - Show Bio

@vsw said:

@thenewguysnm1 actually thanks to Finaldeath i found a better timeframe(something i missed before), this should please you

No Caption Provided

Due to acceleration of gravity, all things will fall 9.81m/s , and if you know how big 9 Meters is, you know it would take less than 4 seconds for the Debris to land.

Thats Mach 280K

See, no "assumptions" , no "Assertions", just plain old physics

Dont tell me he may have jumped from moon to earth in a second give me the confirmed number(it does not exist)

well due to physics, we now know it was less than 4 seconds.

Cool you found those pictures

I think theres a slight inaccuracy with your calc though, because if he travelled a distance of 380k kilometres in under 4 seconds, Saitamas jump speed would be immensely more than mach 280k

Do you know the calc to measure how high the temperature was when he travelled, because that puts him and his clothes durability above anything I've seen in Naruto. Last I remember, it was hotter than the core of the sun

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#231 Posted by iUseMyCajonas (4204 posts) - - Show Bio

This thread is so messy.

Saitama casually clears. But the people arguing for him are making me cringe lmao.

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#232 Posted by deactivated-5b45a50b422a9 (32 posts) - - Show Bio

This thread is so messy.

Saitama casually clears. But the people arguing for him are making me cringe lmao.

The people arguing for Naruto are worse

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#233 Posted by KingZod (3988 posts) - - Show Bio

I wonder how long Saitama wankers have been in denial

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#234 Posted by Adi_Frost (580 posts) - - Show Bio

Stops at 2. Saitama comes for a punch, juubito creates a tsb wall. Saitama punches it and gets his hands disintegrated and before he snaps out of that situation, he gets blown in half by a tsb "blow away upper half of the body" shot.

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#235 Posted by Gaoron (8757 posts) - - Show Bio
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#236 Posted by deactivated-5c07a0327fd39 (4596 posts) - - Show Bio

Stops at 2. Saitama comes for a punch, juubito creates a tsb wall. Saitama punches it and gets his hands disintegrated and before he snaps out of that situation, he gets blown in half by a tsb "blow away upper half of the body" shot.

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#237 Posted by Adi_Frost (580 posts) - - Show Bio

@gaoron: TSB ignores durability and is a better version of atomic dismantling (which is hax which disintegrates objects it touches regardless of durability) . Saitama gets himself disintegrated cause Saitama has no feats of hax resistance for something like the TSB.

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#238 Posted by Gaoron (8757 posts) - - Show Bio

@adi_frost: It's not a hax and it never atomized anything. TSB doesn't have feats to effect someone at Saitama level.

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#239 Edited by Claymore_Fools (707 posts) - - Show Bio

@gaoron said:

@adi_frost: It's not a hax and it never atomized anything. TSB doesn't have feats to effect someone at Saitama level.

? Saitama is a human who hasn't shown any resistance to that level of molecular manip.

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#240 Posted by Claymore_Fools (707 posts) - - Show Bio

@kingzod said:

I wonder how long Saitama wankers have been in denial

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#241 Posted by Claymore_Fools (707 posts) - - Show Bio

@gaoron: *human, not normal human I mean.

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#242 Posted by Nelomaxwell (14166 posts) - - Show Bio

stopd at 3.

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#243 Posted by Gaoron (8757 posts) - - Show Bio

@claymore_fools: To what level? TSB is low level manipulation at best, saying it would effect someone with Saitama durability is NLF.

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#244 Posted by Adi_Frost (580 posts) - - Show Bio

@gaoron: Lol. It is hax and it has affected everything it has touched (except people who have immunity to it because of sage of six paths senjutsu) . Feats to show Saitama surviving atomic dismantling hax ?

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#245 Posted by Gaoron (8757 posts) - - Show Bio

@adi_frost: It didn't affect ground in Kaguya gravity dimension so no it doesn't destroy everything it touches, in fact the only thing I remember TSB effecting was either jutsus or edos... who are kind of jutsus aswell. It never even did anything to any alive made out of flesh being IIRC.

You have yet to prove they are atomic, you keep on repeating that while there is no mention of TSBs being atomic in the series.

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#246 Edited by Adi_Frost (580 posts) - - Show Bio

@gaoron: They literally state how it's a superior version of atomic dismantling jutsu because of the fluidity it has. Remember everyone was shielding Gai from touching TSB's and helping him to avert them ? Remember how Naruto and Sasuke were going to have their upper bodies blown apart because of it ? Remember how Madara makes a big deal out of Naruto touching them ?

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#247 Edited by Gaoron (8757 posts) - - Show Bio

@adi_frost: Atomic dismantling jutsu is a name used only in the anime dub. Onokis jutsu name is Detachment of the Primitive World Technique in japanese and it was never stated or shown to be on atomic scale nor was TSB.

I remember that all of those characters were on the similar power levels, Saitama is not. And we still don't how TSB works on living beings, all this hype comes from Onokis statement who never did anything impressive with his jutsu in the first place aswell tbh.

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#248 Posted by Oozarususanoo (135 posts) - - Show Bio

The saitama/Opm debaters on this thread are hilariously dumb.

OT: Stops at 2, Juubito shields himself in a TSB, Saitama tries to punch it and gets turned to dust.

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#249 Edited by KingZod (3988 posts) - - Show Bio

@gaoron: "It didn't affect the ground in Kaguya dimension"

The reach is real

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#250 Posted by Gaoron (8757 posts) - - Show Bio

@kingzod:

Everytime someone debunks Naruto fanboys headcanon of atom destroying light speed Naruto there is always the "lowballer" "your reaching" "that was not a context of the story, authors are wrong and I'm right" type of comments lol

All I do is using what was shown in the series, I'm sorry that it doesn't add up with how strong you imagine the verse is. Someone said TSB destroys everything and ignores durability while it was never stated or shown, I used manga to debunk that and yet I'm the one reaching. Hilarious.