Saiko vs Moon Knight

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ChaosBlazer

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#1  Edited By ChaosBlazer

Saiko

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vs

Moon Knight

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Morals on.

Fight in a deserted warehouse in Queens.

No prep.

Standard elimination rules.

Basic equipment/gear, but no rockets.

Current versions.

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darktiger

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#2  Edited By darktiger

I say saiko

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jashro44

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#3  Edited By jashro44

I'll just leave these here for anyone curious in saikos abilities...

Round 1 against nightwing

Round 2

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ChaosBlazer

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#4  Edited By ChaosBlazer

@jashro44: so, who do you think takes this fight?

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darktiger

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#5  Edited By darktiger

Saiko better fighter in my opinion faster,better weapons and claws cut straight through moon knight,chaosblazer do you like siako

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ChaosBlazer

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#6  Edited By ChaosBlazer

@darktiger: yep, he's pretty awesome. been reading all the batman comics recently, and nightwing too

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darktiger

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#7  Edited By darktiger

@ChaosBlazer said:

@darktiger: yep, he's pretty awesome. been reading all the batman comics recently, and nightwing too

kool i see why saiko is a bad boy

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jashro44

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#8  Edited By jashro44

@ChaosBlazer: Probably Saiko due to speed and agility.

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ChaosBlazer

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#9  Edited By ChaosBlazer

@k4tzm4n: regular equipment should include MK's suit, shouldn't it?

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k4tzm4n

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#10  Edited By k4tzm4n  Moderator

@ChaosBlazer: I'm going by the OP picture. That version of Moon Knight didn't have armor.

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darktiger

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#11  Edited By darktiger

I say saiko even with mk's armor

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k4tzm4n

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#12  Edited By k4tzm4n  Moderator

@darktiger said:

I say saiko even with mk's armor

Why?

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darktiger

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#13  Edited By darktiger

@k4tzm4n said:

@darktiger said:

I say saiko even with mk's armor

Why?

because he is a better fighter,and has the weapons and skills to knock him out or kill him

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k4tzm4n

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#14  Edited By k4tzm4n  Moderator

Upon re-reading my issues with Saiko, I'd go for Moon Knight in a rather brutal and close fight with gear.

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darktiger

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#15  Edited By darktiger

@k4tzm4n said:

Upon re-reading my issues with Saiko, I'd go for Moon Knight in a rather brutal and close fight with gear.

ok I still say saiko because I did some research

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k4tzm4n

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#16  Edited By k4tzm4n  Moderator

@darktiger: Well, I've done research on both and I say Moon Knight.

#BestArgumentEver

But really, do you need me to drop Moon Knight scans?

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darktiger

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#17  Edited By darktiger

@k4tzm4n said:

@darktiger: Well, I've done research on both and I say Moon Knight.

#BestArgumentEver

But really, do you need me to drop Moon Knight scans?

ok but I still say saiko but show me the scans

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JohnnyWalker

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#18  Edited By JohnnyWalker

@k4tzm4n: does current moon knight still have his wolverine claws and web-shooters?? those would give him a serious edge.

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ChaosBlazer

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#19  Edited By ChaosBlazer

@JohnnyWalker:

I have this pic as my desktop background, lol

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texasdeathmatch

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#20  Edited By texasdeathmatch

Those Saiko scans are preeeeetty, pretty cool.

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k4tzm4n

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#21  Edited By k4tzm4n  Moderator

@darktiger said:

@k4tzm4n said:

@darktiger: Well, I've done research on both and I say Moon Knight.

#BestArgumentEver

But really, do you need me to drop Moon Knight scans?

ok but I still say saiko but show me the scans

Sure, I've got some time to kill.

Remarks on technical hand-to-hand talent against fodder.

Humiliates Swordsman while unarmed. Also a credit to his pain tolerance, proving he can take slashes in battle (which is key here)

Speaking of pain tolerance, Marc is infamous for his ability to take damage and keep going. This is key since Saiko will land slashes with those blades

Once again, Marc wrecks Swordsman

While Saiko is obviously faster and more agile, Marc is no slouch in that department

Saiko's claws are highly effective, but Moon Knight is also bringing some toys the to table, and he's proven to be more than able when it comes to accuracy with them. Furthermore, this is only addressing his crescent daggers and truncheon. He can still extend the truncheon into a bo-staff or use them as nunchuks.

And if he has armor, it's just icing on the cake.

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My eyes started to hurt and I'm tired of looking at pictures... what's the point you're trying to make?

Saiko is indeed faster, more agile and those claws serve as an effective weapon, but I believe Moon Knight holds the advantages to counter what the Nightwing villains brings to the table and take the victory after a bloody battle. While Saiko is more agile and faster, the above hopefully proves that Marc is quite underestimated in that regard as well. Despite being only human with no enhancements anymore, bullet dodging is a feat he's quite capable of and has the reflexes required to at least catch arrows/block blades with his gauntlets. But, Saiko has the edge there, so why bother? First and foremost, it's to prove Saiko won't leave him in the dust and flawlessly dance around him. Secondly, this advantage means Saiko could potentially land more hits, but as we saw against Nightwing, he was never able to land critical attacks. They were all wounds that Nightwing was able to withstand and still keep in the fight. Moon Knight's remarkable pain tolerance means he'll be able to accomplish the same with the attacks, and in turn, dish out some of his own. Saiko, despite his speed and weapons, never truly got the better on Grayson on his own. Out of 3 battles, the only time he took the edge was when he used the water tower (Vulture's lawyers will be contacting him). Grayson countered him numerous times, and hopefully the above proves Marc has the capabilities to accomplish the same. Moon Knight also brings a variety of goodies to the table, giving him extra variety in the battle (crescent daggers, nunchuks, bo-staff, truncheon, gauntlets). It will be violent and close, but I think Marc's skill, pain tolerance, and variety of gear will allow him to take this. And, if he has that carbonadium armor, it'll further increase his odds.

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The_Question_

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#22  Edited By The_Question_

The only proof Saiko is faster or more agile than Grayson is due to Nightwing's own statement in their first encounter, and frankly, Saiko did nothing but get his ass kicked repeatedly even under conditions favorable to him afterwards to call him in any way better than Moon Knight, unless this is Bendis MK. Saiko was, all around, quite the disappointment.

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nefarious

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#23  Edited By nefarious

Saiko should win. 

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k4tzm4n

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#24  Edited By k4tzm4n  Moderator

@The_Question_ said:

The only proof Saiko is faster or more agile than Grayson is due to Nightwing's own statement in their first encounter, and frankly, Saiko did nothing but get his ass kicked repeatedly even under conditions favorable to him afterwards to call him in any way better than Moon Knight, unless this is Bendis MK. Saiko was, all around, quite the disappointment.

Sadly, he was still an upgrade from Shrike. Though I suppose that isn't saying much.

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The_Question_

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#25  Edited By The_Question_
@k4tzm4n said:

@The_Question_ said:

The only proof Saiko is faster or more agile than Grayson is due to Nightwing's own statement in their first encounter, and frankly, Saiko did nothing but get his ass kicked repeatedly even under conditions favorable to him afterwards to call him in any way better than Moon Knight, unless this is Bendis MK. Saiko was, all around, quite the disappointment.

Sadly, he was still an upgrade from Shrike. Though I suppose that isn't saying much.

I feel Higgins simply enjoys having his fights play out in a very traditional manner for superhero comics. Hero fights villain, hero is better, some circumstances will be against the hero and he will be put in a tight spot and at the brink of defeat, then some PIS will save the day for him. The Paragon vs Nightwing fight in the most recent issue as well as Talon vs NW followed the same pattern.
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Ferro Vida

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#26  Edited By Ferro Vida

@k4tzm4n: I love it when you talk dirty. I am curious why you didn't mention his newer equipment, though.

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#27  Edited By k4tzm4n  Moderator

@The_Question_ said:

@k4tzm4n said:

@The_Question_ said:

The only proof Saiko is faster or more agile than Grayson is due to Nightwing's own statement in their first encounter, and frankly, Saiko did nothing but get his ass kicked repeatedly even under conditions favorable to him afterwards to call him in any way better than Moon Knight, unless this is Bendis MK. Saiko was, all around, quite the disappointment.

Sadly, he was still an upgrade from Shrike. Though I suppose that isn't saying much.

I feel Higgins simply enjoys having his fights play out in a very traditional manner for superhero comics. Hero fights villain, hero is better, some circumstances will be against the hero and he will be put in a tight spot and at the brink of defeat, then some PIS will save the day for him. The Paragon vs Nightwing fight in the most recent issue as well as Talon vs NW followed the same pattern.

True, that was the case against Talon as well.

@Ferro Vida said:

@k4tzm4n: I love it when you talk dirty. I am curious why you didn't mention his newer equipment, though.

Because I didn't read Bendis' run :X

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#28  Edited By Ferro Vida

@k4tzm4n: It was actually fantastic. It was everything good about Bendis' Daredevil.

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k4tzm4n

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#29  Edited By k4tzm4n  Moderator

@Ferro Vida: I need time, man. The fanboy in me doesn't like such a drastic change with no real reason :P

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#30  Edited By Ferro Vida

@k4tzm4n: But I was counting on you being the guy I could talk to about it! D:

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darktiger

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#31  Edited By darktiger

saiko still wins

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#32  Edited By k4tzm4n  Moderator

@darktiger said:

saiko still wins

I concede. That completely owns my post filled with scans and reasons :P

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darktiger

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#33  Edited By darktiger

@k4tzm4n said:

@darktiger said:

saiko still wins

I concede. That completely owns my post filled with scans and reasons :P

yup it does saiko is better then moon knight all around

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#34  Edited By ChaosBlazer

@k4tzm4n said:

@darktiger said:

saiko still wins

I concede. That completely owns my post filled with scans and reasons :P

lols

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darktiger

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#35  Edited By darktiger

@ChaosBlazer said:

@k4tzm4n said:

@darktiger said:

saiko still wins

I concede. That completely owns my post filled with scans and reasons :P

lols

forreal I am just keeping it real

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k4tzm4n

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#36  Edited By k4tzm4n  Moderator

@darktiger said:

@k4tzm4n said:

@darktiger said:

saiko still wins

I concede. That completely owns my post filled with scans and reasons :P

yup it does saiko is better then moon knight all around

Well, if you want to convince me, you'll have to prove it. Counter the points I made.

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Moon_Bat_87

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#37  Edited By Moon_Bat_87

It will be a tough fight I think, but Moon Knight has experience and toughness on his side, so I would say a close victory for Moon Knight. But as with the Hush vs Saiko thread, we simply have not seen enough from Saiko compared to Moon Knight.

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darktiger

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#38  Edited By darktiger

@k4tzm4n said:

@darktiger said:

@k4tzm4n said:

@darktiger said:

saiko still wins

I concede. That completely owns my post filled with scans and reasons :P

yup it does saiko is better then moon knight all around

Well, if you want to convince me, you'll have to prove it. Counter the points I made.

ok listen Nightwing is a better hand to hand combatant then moon knight,and saiko kept up with nightwing hand to hand,plus saiko is faster then nightwing who is faster than moon knight,so these are just two areas he is better then moon knight then,Plus he has better weapons like rockets and more durable,since he is faster and more skilled he will chop moon knight right into pieces probably head first,then legs,so saiko all around is better then moon knight,and he is a better killer

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k4tzm4n

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#39  Edited By k4tzm4n  Moderator

@darktiger:

ok listen Nightwing is a better hand to hand combatant then moon knight

Not by a significant margin, and Grayson was clearly Saiko's superior in hand-to-hand by a fair amount. In all three battles he countered him numerous times with tosses and strikes.

plus saiko is faster then nightwing who is faster than moon knight

Grayson's words, and even if we believe they're valid, it's not by much, seeing as Grayson was clearly the better in close range. Plus, my post has counters for Saiko's speed and agility. Not trying to be rude here, but did you read it?

,Plus he has better weapons like rockets

OP says no rockets.

and more durable

His only good durability feat was withstanding the taser. That doesn't hold much relevance against blunt strikes and the weapons Moon Knight has to offer. Grayson had no issue making Saiko feel the strikes - Marc won't either. He only landed slashing damage on Grayson and this is something I proved above that Marc can tolerate for a fair amount of time.

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darktiger

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#40  Edited By darktiger

@k4tzm4n said:

@darktiger:

ok listen Nightwing is a better hand to hand combatant then moon knight

Not by a significant margin, and Grayson was clearly Saiko's superior in hand-to-hand by a fair amount. In all three battles he countered him numerous times with tosses and strikes.

plus saiko is faster then nightwing who is faster than moon knight

Grayson's words, and even if we believe they're valid, it's not by much, seeing as Grayson was clearly the better in close range. Plus, my post has counters for Saiko's speed and agility. Not trying to be rude here, but did you read it?

,Plus he has better weapons like rockets

OP says no rockets.

and more durable

His only good durability feat was withstanding the taser. That doesn't hold much relevance against blunt strikes and the weapons Moon Knight has to offer. Grayson had no issue making Saiko feel the strikes - Marc won't either. He only landed slashing damage on Grayson and this is something I proved above that Marc can tolerate for a fair amount of time.

Moon knight loses there is nothing he could do man

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darktiger

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#41  Edited By darktiger

@k4tzm4n: dude I know you a moon knight fan he is like your fourth favorite hero dude I don't know if your being bias or what but you should clearly see saiko wins,dude I really like you,you really cool,I look up to you on the vine,but you have to listen,and see that saiko wins

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Moon_Bat_87

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#42  Edited By Moon_Bat_87

@k4tzm4n said:

@darktiger:

ok listen Nightwing is a better hand to hand combatant then moon knight

Not by a significant margin, and Grayson was clearly Saiko's superior in hand-to-hand by a fair amount. In all three battles he countered him numerous times with tosses and strikes.

plus saiko is faster then nightwing who is faster than moon knight

Grayson's words, and even if we believe they're valid, it's not by much, seeing as Grayson was clearly the better in close range. Plus, my post has counters for Saiko's speed and agility. Not trying to be rude here, but did you read it?

,Plus he has better weapons like rockets

OP says no rockets.

and more durable

His only good durability feat was withstanding the taser. That doesn't hold much relevance against blunt strikes and the weapons Moon Knight has to offer. Grayson had no issue making Saiko feel the strikes - Marc won't either. He only landed slashing damage on Grayson and this is something I proved above that Marc can tolerate for a fair amount of time.

I agree with k4tzm4n on this one, sorry darktiger.

But also keep in mind that even if Saiko was as strong and skilled as you say, darktiger, Moon Knight has much more experience.

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Ferro Vida

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#43  Edited By Ferro Vida

@darktiger said:

@k4tzm4n said:

@darktiger:

ok listen Nightwing is a better hand to hand combatant then moon knight

Not by a significant margin, and Grayson was clearly Saiko's superior in hand-to-hand by a fair amount. In all three battles he countered him numerous times with tosses and strikes.

plus saiko is faster then nightwing who is faster than moon knight

Grayson's words, and even if we believe they're valid, it's not by much, seeing as Grayson was clearly the better in close range. Plus, my post has counters for Saiko's speed and agility. Not trying to be rude here, but did you read it?

,Plus he has better weapons like rockets

OP says no rockets.

and more durable

His only good durability feat was withstanding the taser. That doesn't hold much relevance against blunt strikes and the weapons Moon Knight has to offer. Grayson had no issue making Saiko feel the strikes - Marc won't either. He only landed slashing damage on Grayson and this is something I proved above that Marc can tolerate for a fair amount of time.

Moon knight loses there is nothing he could do man

He could gut him using those replica Wolverine claws that he got in his new series. He also has a photon shield (like Captain America's old one) that can stand up to any single attack Saiko could throw at him, not to mention his armour can too. Oh, and there are the web-shooters that he is surprisingly proficient with and that Saiko has no counter for.

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Erik

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#44  Edited By Erik

@k4tzm4n:

This a debate or a god damn respect thread? :p

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#45  Edited By k4tzm4n  Moderator

@darktiger said:

@k4tzm4n: dude I know you a moon knight fan he is like your fourth favorite hero dude I don't know if your being bias or what but you should clearly see saiko wins,dude I really like you,you really cool,I look up to you on the vine,but you have to listen,and see that saiko wins

Personal preference should never play a role in debates and they shouldn't be taken personally either. Me liking Moon Knight more than Saiko isn't a reason why I think he wins. I have no shame in admitting if a character I like loses to a character I like less (or even don't like at all). It's about the knowledge I have about both characters, and then using that knowledge to analyze the pros and cons each character brings to the table. And, if it's a thread where I'm not knowledgeable on one character, it's about listening to the facts surrounding the other and making an unbiased opinion. Such isn't the case here. I've read a wealthy amount of Moon Knight's stories and have a good chunk of knowledge on him, and I've read all of Saiko's appearances. In fact, I re-read them earlier today due to the increasing amount of Saiko threads. I made quite a post on the other page explaining why I think Moon Knight wins and provided scans supporting the statements. Liking him has nothing to do with me imagining how he'd perform in a fight.

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#46  Edited By darktiger

@Erik said:

@k4tzm4n:

This a debate or a god damn respect thread? :p

what do you think

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darktiger

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#47  Edited By darktiger

@k4tzm4n said:

@darktiger said:

@k4tzm4n: dude I know you a moon knight fan he is like your fourth favorite hero dude I don't know if your being bias or what but you should clearly see saiko wins,dude I really like you,you really cool,I look up to you on the vine,but you have to listen,and see that saiko wins

Personal preference should never play a role in debates and they shouldn't be taken personally either. Me liking Moon Knight more than Saiko isn't a reason why I think he wins. I have no shame in admitting if a character I like loses to a character I like less (or even don't like at all). It's about the knowledge I have about both characters, and then using that knowledge to analyze the pros and cons each character brings to the table. And, if it's a thread where I'm not knowledgeable on one character, it's about listening to the facts surrounding the other and making an unbiased opinion. Such isn't the case here. I've read a wealthy amount of Moon Knight's stories and have a good chunk of knowledge on him, and I've read all of Saiko's appearances. In fact, I re-read them earlier today due to the increasing amount of Saiko threads. I made quite a post on the other page explaining why I think Moon Knight wins and provided scans supporting the statements. Liking him has nothing to do with me imagining how he'd perform in a fight.

good point

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#48  Edited By Erik

@darktiger said:

@Erik said:

@k4tzm4n:

This a debate or a god damn respect thread? :p

what do you think

Are you asking what I think about the thread, who is the stronger debater or what the answer to my own question is?

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Ferro Vida

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#49  Edited By Ferro Vida

@darktiger: O hai. Gonna reply? :D

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darktiger

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#50  Edited By darktiger

@Erik said:

@darktiger said:

@Erik said:

@k4tzm4n:

This a debate or a god damn respect thread? :p

what do you think

Are you asking what I think about the thread, who is the stronger debater or what the answer to my own question is?

I am asking you the answer k4tzm4n is a better debater then me right now