Location
Rules
-Characters begin 10 feet apart.
-Morals apply.
-Elimination by all standard methods.
Sagat VS Daredevil
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Im going with him as well...
"@progenitor said:Are you serious? You really think that someone with no actual strength feats can one-shot someone who has been hit by characters with recorded superhuman level strength and not been knocked out? Sagat in canon beat a young Ryu before the SF2 storyline.I don't really see how it's relevant.In fact I would wager that Daredevil could have beaten a young Ryu.This was before Ryu owned Sagat and scarred him for life. Sagat being larger and more muscular doesn't mean he's stronger than Daredevil.Daredevil actually has showings of strength..Sagat does not. Why wouldn't DD be able to take Sagat out with a nerve strike? He's done it to people more durable than Sagat.Sagat is a human, he has nerves and getting struck there will KO him.Nerve strikes don't cease working because someone is buff. Sagat isn't going to outskill Daredevil in a fight either. Most of the people that have..have years and years of actual showings of skill and have mastered several styles. "" Sagat has beaten Ryu, to clear that up, but this would be a tough one to call. Daredevil could use his senses to avoid being tagged by Sagat, 'cause one hit from Sagat and DD would fall with one-shot. Sagat's a hell of a lot larger, and muscular, so I don't know if DD would be able to just take him down with a nerve strike, especially since Sagat, being a master of Muay-Thai, could block using elbows. Daredevil is one of the best acrobatics around, but if he even thought of flipping fancily over Sagat, it'd be TIGER...UPPERCUT! Time, Sagat wins. "
That would be a huge tree trunk that he's lifting and Muay Thai kneeing at the same time, btw.
So let me get this straight. Your argument is that because Sagat hasn't, in your opinion, shown any proof of his great strength in accordance to his massive physique and musculature? In comparison to someone like Daredevil who can pass off as a normal every-day blind joe? Consider that Sagat has ki-based attacks, and most of his ki-based attacks consist of flame, so you're telling me that Sagat couldn't throw off Daredevil's senses with a ki assault, and then simply utilize Muay Thai and put him in the clinch, effectively kneeing him in the face until he's unconscious?
Let me help you to understand something. You don't need to ask for exact measurements between Daredevil and Sagat to realize that Sagat has not only a weight advantage, but a reach advantage. Sagat isn't just a lumbering brute, he has incredible skill which has for the longest time been unparalleled in Muay Thai. And it doesn't matter what other martial arts you know, if you master a skill enough to know exactly how to defeat your foe, there's not much you can do about switching techniques. Take Anderson "The Spider" Silva for example, from the UFC. Undefeated, and a majority of his wins are based on Muay Thai clinches and knees. With Sagat's length, heigh, and reach, as well as his ki-based attacks, having already defeated Ryu, killed Dan Hibiki's father, trained the deadly fighter Adon. Sagat is fully capable of defeating Daredevil.
" @Vance Astro said:"@progenitor said:Are you serious? You really think that someone with no actual strength feats can one-shot someone who has been hit by characters with recorded superhuman level strength and not been knocked out? Sagat in canon beat a young Ryu before the SF2 storyline.I don't really see how it's relevant.In fact I would wager that Daredevil could have beaten a young Ryu.This was before Ryu owned Sagat and scarred him for life. Sagat being larger and more muscular doesn't mean he's stronger than Daredevil.Daredevil actually has showings of strength..Sagat does not. Why wouldn't DD be able to take Sagat out with a nerve strike? He's done it to people more durable than Sagat.Sagat is a human, he has nerves and getting struck there will KO him.Nerve strikes don't cease working because someone is buff. Sagat isn't going to outskill Daredevil in a fight either. Most of the people that have..have years and years of actual showings of skill and have mastered several styles. "" Sagat has beaten Ryu, to clear that up, but this would be a tough one to call. Daredevil could use his senses to avoid being tagged by Sagat, 'cause one hit from Sagat and DD would fall with one-shot. Sagat's a hell of a lot larger, and muscular, so I don't know if DD would be able to just take him down with a nerve strike, especially since Sagat, being a master of Muay-Thai, could block using elbows. Daredevil is one of the best acrobatics around, but if he even thought of flipping fancily over Sagat, it'd be TIGER...UPPERCUT! Time, Sagat wins. "
That would be a huge tree trunk that he's lifting and Muay Thai kneeing at the same time, btw.
I've seen Sagat deliver hard blows in the comics in his fights with Adon and Ryu.None of which show that he could one shot Daredevil.Sagat doesn't have any real strength feats.At the very least he hasn't proven to be among the strongest that Daredevil has fought and defeated.I don't know what Daredevil passing for normal has to do with anything.He's anything but normal. Why you think a Tiger Shot would be effective against Daredevil is beyond me as well. Daredevil has shown acrobatically he can keep up with the likes of Spider-Man. He's dodged Shotgun shells, gunshots, machine gun fire, gatling gun fire, lasers, optic blasts, fireballs. You name it. He's fought people with better energy projection than Sagat and won. Sagat's Tiger shot may consist of flames but Daredevil has beaten Pyro and more than once if i'm not mistaken.Daredevil has also fought in and escaped buildings engulfed in flames. I know Sagat isn't just a lumbering brute.I've read all of the comics and played all of the games.I'm a huge Street Fighter fan.I don't see anything he's done that suggests he's a better fighter than Daredevil though or even close. Size and weight advantage doesn't do much against Daredevil.He deals with that all the time.His senses allow him to know an attack is coming and dodge it easily and since Sagat has really shown nothing for speed it's not outlandish to assume DD will dodge him as easily as he does everyone else.Killing Dan's father,Defeating a younger Ryu than the one that completely owned him and training Adon doesn't mean you can beat Daredevil.Those feats are pretty mediocre honestly.
"This is the story of Sagat, rather the lessons of Sagat. As the story starts we see Hugo's diesel truck parked outside of a temple in the heart of Thailand. Hugo is taking swings at Sagat. Although he towers over the mighty Thai, he is unable to land a solid hit on him. Sagat is motionless and allows Hugo to throw punches that don't seem to faze him. In a fit of anger Hugo lifts the stone head of a Buddha and throws it down on Sagat. It shatters into a million pieces and this gets a reaction. Sagat takes down the mighty giant with one kick. He then remembers his life of fighting."
"We are taken back to a period in time when Sagat was at his most dangerous. He had survived the dragon punch from Ryu and was recovering in Thailand. Furious with himself he takes his aggression out in the jungle. Knocking down trees and trying to make his techniques stronger. Adon watches from a distance, ashamed that the tiny Ryu could have done this to his master. Although bandaged up Sagat has a would that will not heal. He doesn't stop long enough to think about the consequences of his actions until he accidentally knocks a tree down onto a child. He takes the child to a temple where the monks take him in and try to help. The monks warn Sagat of what he is becoming."
"
"This is the story of Sagat, rather the lessons of Sagat. As the story starts we see Hugo's diesel truck parked outside of a temple in the heart of Thailand. Hugo is taking swings at Sagat. Although he towers over the mighty Thai, he is unable to land a solid hit on him. Sagat is motionless and allows Hugo to throw punches that don't seem to faze him. In a fit of anger Hugo lifts the stone head of a Buddha and throws it down on Sagat. It shatters into a million pieces and this gets a reaction. Sagat takes down the mighty giant with one kick. He then remembers his life of fighting."
"We are taken back to a period in time when Sagat was at his most dangerous. He had survived the dragon punch from Ryu and was recovering in Thailand. Furious with himself he takes his aggression out in the jungle. Knocking down trees and trying to make his techniques stronger. Adon watches from a distance, ashamed that the tiny Ryu could have done this to his master. Although bandaged up Sagat has a would that will not heal. He doesn't stop long enough to think about the consequences of his actions until he accidentally knocks a tree down onto a child. He takes the child to a temple where the monks take him in and try to help. The monks warn Sagat of what he is becoming."
That doesn't sound at all mediocre to me. I never said I thought Sagat would rely on energy projection to defeat Daredevil, but at the most, I would put Daredevil on the same level as Fei Long. Sagat is just so much more different than the people Daredevil usually face, who is that huge, powerful, focused, and fast? Along with superior reach, height, and overall musculature? Sagat is renown in Thailand as being the world champion, I call that being enough of a feat seeing as he's had to defeat many to claim that right. And he's beaten Ryu, who is pound for pound probably the most focused, determined and talented fighter in the SF universe.
Although you made a good point that Daredevil is an acrobat, and has incredible sensory detection, but I don't think that means he couldn't get hit with a Tiger shot.
This, in itself, I think is a feat, considering Sagat took numerous gunshots in his hand without so much as flinching, and stating that he could have easily killed the poacher that fired the shots. I'm a pretty big fan of Daredevil myself, and TBPF, I prefer Adon to Sagat, but I still think in a combat situation he's an absolute beast. I don't see anything that Daredevil could do that could take him down or hurt him. I mean, it took Ryu reaching inward with his darkness to unleash an energy-based Shoryuken just to gain the upper hand and wound Sagat.
" @progenitor said:" @Vance Astro said:Daredevil is smarter in combat too.His intellect in combat probably surpasses that of the courtroom..especially with the help of his radar sense.Daredevil is a strategist.He calculates several ways to beat someone without prep time...during combat.You can't see Sagat getting hit with a nerve strike because you know it will be the last time he gets hit..because DD doesn't hit people who are unconscious.Sagat has done nothing to prove he can avoid it. As far as bloodlust..it's never helped Sagat in canon.I don't know what makes you think he stands a chance with Daredevil let alone knock him out with one good hit.Daredevil doesn't have more feats..he has better feats.He's beaten skilled opponents..alot of them. (Black Widow,Bengal,Hawkeye,Bullseye,Lady Bullseye,Typhoid Mary,Silver Samurai etc.) Sagat has beaten nobody but Go Hibiki.Who has no recorded stats or showings.So how are Sagat's feats more impressive.He spent an entire video game series losing. "" @progenitor said:I agree with you on that Daredevil is definitely smarter, but combat-wise Sagat isn't likely to make too many mistakes, and like I said, the only way I could really see Daredevil getting the best of Sagat would be using nerve-strikes, and I think Sagat could defend well enough against that. It doesn't take too much to get Sagat bloodlusted, and if he went into a frenzy with elbows, knees and kicks, there's a good chance he could tag Daredevil at least once, and that would be enough to put Daredevil down. Daredevil has more feats when it comes to having faced more various enemies in his career as a vigilante, but physically, Sagat has more impressive feats and capabilities. "" I don't know about freezing molecules or anything along the like, but Sagat would take Daredevil. Sagat is too smart to allow Daredevil to just reach in for nerve strikes, and logically, if Daredevil were to go up close for an attack, as beforementioned, he would get caught in a Muay Thai clinch. Daredevil may have bested people like USAgent, but IMHO, he's always been a second-rate Cap with half the combat experience. Sagat would catch Daredevil and one knee that he uses to smash trees would put Daredevil down, and those knees definitely aren't slow, especially not when he took Hugo down with a kick without even showing him moving from his standing position. "Daredevil is smarter than Sagat and according to feats more skilled. "
I would consider being a former world champion a feat in itself, something Daredevil's never achieved. Sagat's faced various types of martial artists in his time, and there's no way to prove he's never beaten anyone with knowledge or capability of nerve-strikes, and he didn't just beat Go Hibiki, he killed him. Theoretically, Sagat could simply box Daredevil's ears and put him in a Muay Thai clinch and the match would immediately be done, Daredevil would have no chance to defend himself. Even though Daredevil's faced metahumans and superhumans with energy capabilities, I don't think he's ever faced someone like Sagat, who focuses his ki within his Muay Thai. None of the people you just mentioned have the natural strength of Sagat, although Sagat is most likely much faster than a foe such as Typhoid Mary. Sagat would just be too much for Daredevil, physically and strategically. You mentioned before that my mention of the reach advantage wouldn't mean much, but in actual H2H combat, it really does. Sagat could much more easily tag Daredevil based on the length of his limbs than Daredevil could tag Sagat, and if Daredevil tried blocking a knee that's shattered trees, it would probably break his arm and shoulder.
Daredevil just doesn't have enough strength to do serious damage to Sagat unless, like you said, it had to do with nerve-strikes, and i've never seen Sagat lose to a fight using a nerve-strike. Just because Sagat hasn't been on a winning streak doesn't mean he's just a loser, he was a world champion, the pride of Thailand.
"We see poachers stalking a tiger who instead kills one of them. Before the tiger can pounce on the other Sagat kicks it in the head and scares it off. The poacher thanks Sagat profusely for which he rejects. Sagat has found a new target for his aggression. He begins slapping the poacher all over the jungle. As he does so the scar on his chest opens up and he starts bleeding. While Sagat pauses to clutch his chest the poacher grabs a young villager from a nearby tent. It is the child that Sagat accidentally hurt. The poacher holds him hostage. Sagat throws his hand in between the gun and the child. The poacher fires a round into his hand. Sagat grabs the poacher with his free hand and lifts him into the air. The poacher fires a few more rounds into the torso of Sagat."
"Sagat can easily kill the poacher but he chooses not to. He had just cause and unlike Ryu, this person was a criminal willing to murder Sagat in cold blood. At that point Sagat has chosen his path, he will not let rage consume him, he will not use muay thai as a means to have his revenge. He will not stain the name of his beloved country. The bandages fall away from his chest as he holds the poacher aloft. The massive scar on his chest has stopped bleeding. Sagat has matured as much as Ryu in the universe."
This entire story revolving briefly around Sagat not only shows feats of him taking bullets as if they were nothing and still being a force to be reckoned with, but also warding off a wild tiger that had already killed a poacher with just one kick? Sagat had all the capability to pound Daredevil into unconsciousness using his mastery of Muay Thai. Daredevil, in his techniques, primarily uses Judo, american boxing, and jujutsu. Jujutsu is the only technique I could see Daredevil using to his advantage, seeing as it involves using the opponents own energy against him, but also bearing in mind that Sagat wouldn't be going for conventional attacks, Muay Thai is notorious as being one of the most brutal martial arts out there. Daredevil could only avoid Sagat for so long before getting tagged, and once he does get tagged, he goes down.
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