Rukia and Orihime vs Irene Belserion

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Gilateen

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•TYBW Rukia/Orihime

•Rukai and Irene start in base

•In-Character

•Location: Alveraz Empire

•Starting distance: 50ft

•No Knowledge/Prep

•Canon feats only

•Win by K.O or DEATH

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Eazy_Pezy

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Absolute Zero solos the verse

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mantraxsp

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Edgelord91

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^

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JDogg

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Irene would have no problem brushing off AZ. She transmute them into her pets or blows them up.

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lichvanastrea

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pics

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Rukia solos the verse.

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Yungbaby

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@jdogg said:

Irene would have no problem brushing off AZ. She transmute them into her pets or blows them up.

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Yungbaby

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#11  Edited By Yungbaby

No one in FT(other than FH Zeref who has time regen) comes close to surviving absolute zero.

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expo7

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None is surviving or "brushing off" AZ in FT other than Zeref who has immortality

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JDogg

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Gray is only sixty degrees off of AZ temps by feats which only leads credence to the authorial notes of ice being AZ and his father's epithet as AZ. Either way the AZ can be negged by matter manipulation so yes Irene can brush it off. Not only that, but Rukia only can do AZ for four seconds and one big AoE blast. She can't continously make it AZ therefore the ability is useless as it can easily be overcome by just an increase in temperature. FT elemental resistance is top notch and allows them to be able to be conscious while frozen so freezing is not going to do anything when the enemy can overcome it via physical power or ability. AZ temps are not what you guys hype it to be.

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kasya_carey

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@jdogg said:

Gray is only sixty degrees off of AZ temps by feats which only leads credence to the authorial notes of ice being AZ and his father's epithet as AZ. Either way the AZ can be negged by matter manipulation so yes Irene can brush it off. Not only that, but Rukia only can do AZ for four seconds and one big AoE blast. She can't continously make it AZ therefore the ability is useless as it can easily be overcome by just an increase in temperature. FT elemental resistance is top notch and allows them to be able to be conscious while frozen so freezing is not going to do anything when the enemy can overcome it via physical power or ability. AZ temps are not what you guys hype it to be.

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deactivated-604f8f087c7dd

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@kasya_carey said:
@jdogg said:

Gray is only sixty degrees off of AZ temps by feats which only leads credence to the authorial notes of ice being AZ and his father's epithet as AZ. Either way the AZ can be negged by matter manipulation so yes Irene can brush it off. Not only that, but Rukia only can do AZ for four seconds and one big AoE blast. She can't continously make it AZ therefore the ability is useless as it can easily be overcome by just an increase in temperature. FT elemental resistance is top notch and allows them to be able to be conscious while frozen so freezing is not going to do anything when the enemy can overcome it via physical power or ability. AZ temps are not what you guys hype it to be.

Dudes you realize a one-degree difference from AZ is magnitudes of difference, right? The difference between being very cold and not moving is more than just a temperature.

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lichvanastrea

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@jdogg: I don't think you understand how Rukia's Zanpakuto works. She can maintain her body temperature to be absolute zero for four seconds, yes, but during this time, any contact she makes with others will instantly be frozen solid. Her Bankai only just extends this range further by producing a wide area of cold mist and anyone caught in it becomes frozen solid instantly.

So how does Irene just casually brush this off? For her to brush this off means she has a resistance to such low temperatures (which she doesn't) and she would have to react in time to expect an attack like that to happen.

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Almount

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#18  Edited By Almount

@kasya_carey said:

@jdogg said:

Gray is only sixty degrees off of AZ temps by feats which only leads credence to the authorial notes of ice being AZ and his father's epithet as AZ. Either way the AZ can be negged by matter manipulation so yes Irene can brush it off. Not only that, but Rukia only can do AZ for four seconds and one big AoE blast. She can't continously make it AZ therefore the ability is useless as it can easily be overcome by just an increase in temperature. FT elemental resistance is top notch and allows them to be able to be conscious while frozen so freezing is not going to do anything when the enemy can overcome it via physical power or ability. AZ temps are not what you guys hype it to be.

Why would irene get scaling from other characters cold resistance?

She needs feats of her own to suggest she could survive absolute zero

They have no knowledge of each otheor prep why would Irene assume that AZ only last four seconds and that she could tank it when she can't read minds and has no cold resistance feats whatsoever?

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JDogg

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@almount: There is literally no way in hell Gray can freeze Irene or has better elemental resistance than dragon lol. He can't even freeze Kiria, Skullion, Ajeel, ect. who are far weaker than Irene so he is not freezing ergo she scales to his ice.

She has scaling.

Why would she need to know her AZ only last four seconds? Rukia can't sustain ergo she can't keep her constantly frozen. She can tank it bcs she is on a much higher caliber than Gray who's ice got negged by weaker people than Irene. It's ludicrous to think Gray van freeze her lol.

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JDogg

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@lichvanastrea: That's exactly what I said. She can't sustain AZ temps therefore she cannot keep her trapped in AZ.

She scales to Gray's and Invel's ice resistance as neither can freeze her. She can brush it off or straight neg the ability altogether via matter manipulation. She won't react to Rukia slow dropping the temp? Lol. Not only that even if she is frozen, FT characters have already shown the ability to be able to conjure thoughts and abilities while frozen. Therefore she can either turn her cold into heat, bust out of the ice as soon as Rukia stops supplying AZ, or just turn Rukia into a pet from the get go.

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Almount

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#21  Edited By Almount

@jdogg said:

@almount: There is literally no way in hell Gray can freeze Irene or has better elemental resistance than dragon lol. He can't even freeze Kiria, Skullion, Ajeel, ect. who are far weaker than Irene so he is not freezing ergo she scales to his ice.

She has scaling.

Why would she need to know her AZ only last four seconds? Rukia can't sustain ergo she can't keep her constantly frozen. She can tank it bcs she is on a much higher caliber than Gray who's ice got negged by weaker people than Irene. It's ludicrous to think Gray van freeze her lol.

You can't scale resistance to temperatures she needs actual showings if she doesn't have any than she gets frozen by absolute zero

If she doesn't know it's four seconds she won't be prepared if some how she is still alive when it ends

Its not ludicrous seeing as gray never even had to chance to encounter irene at all and she has no feats to say she can resist being frozen into a popsicle

Besides gray can't even freeze to the point of absolute zero so even if she had feats (which she doesn't) to suggest she could resist normal ice temperatures she would still get frozen, turned into a sculpture by rukia, and then promptly dealt with by orihime or rukia

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Almount

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#22  Edited By Almount

@jdogg said:

@lichvanastrea: That's exactly what I said. She can't sustain AZ temps therefore she cannot keep her trapped in AZ.

She scales to Gray's and Invel's ice resistance as neither can freeze her. She can brush it off or straight neg the ability altogether via matter manipulation. She won't react to Rukia slow dropping the temp? Lol. Not only that even if she is frozen, FT characters have already shown the ability to be able to conjure thoughts and abilities while frozen. Therefore she can either turn her cold into heat, bust out of the ice as soon as Rukia stops supplying AZ, or just turn Rukia into a pet from the get go.

Have either invel or gray stated they can freeze her?

Has she shown the ability to think while frozen?

Those are feats for the characters that did those things, not them and everyone above them.

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lichvanastrea

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@jdogg said:

@lichvanastrea: That's exactly what I said. She can't sustain AZ temps therefore she cannot keep her trapped in AZ.

Again, do you not understand how her Zanpakuto works? The moment she touches you, you are frozen solid. And you remain in that state, unless you are able to break free from it.

She scales to Gray's and Invel's ice resistance as neither can freeze her. She can brush it off or straight neg the ability altogether via matter manipulation. She won't react to Rukia slow dropping the temp? Lol. Not only that even if she is frozen, FT characters have already shown the ability to be able to conjure thoughts and abilities while frozen. Therefore she can either turn her cold into heat, bust out of the ice as soon as Rukia stops supplying AZ, or just turn Rukia into a pet from the get go.

Since when can Irene do any of this? How does she scale to ice resistance? When has Gray or Invel ever attempted to freeze her? When has she ever negated ice manipulation? I don't care who's done what, what matters is what Irene herself has done.

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JDogg

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@lichvanastrea: Her AZ wears off, it is not permanent effect and for something to be consistently AZ the temp in the area must be lowered to that level constantly. One brief amount of AZ is not an indefinite freeze.

She is massively above Invel to the point it is hopeless for him to challenge. Several character have straight up overpowered Gray's ice freeze as well and those characters are far weaker than Irene. She is also a Dragon which is only hurt by Dragon Slayer magic in the verse. She scales to it. Unless you want to make an Invel and Gray vs Irene thread? You can even equalize the speed or male her slow as a snail to avoid any blitz argument. Ain't no one is gonna say either of those two would be capable of freezing her ergo she scales to their resistance. Like I said it is ludicrous to think either of those two can freeze Irene. Bout as dumb as saying Ywhach would be frozen by Rukia when he has shown zero ice resistance feats either.

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JDogg

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#25  Edited By JDogg

@almount: Brandish already confirmed that none of the S12s can do anything to Irene or August.

Literally character far weaker than her have. I'm seriously trying to wrap my head around Kyria having more elemental resistance than Irene who would fodderize Gthe entire DE trio along with Invel and Gray. Like seriously lol.

Those feats are scaled because 1. It's in those feats were done by weaker people in her verse and 2. It makes literally zero sense that Irene would be frozen by the likes of Gray who can't even freeze Ajeel or Kiria. She scales to Gray and Invel's ice bcs neither have feats of harming or freezing individuals on her level with their ice. Are we gonna say Ywhach is gonna get frozen by Rukia or Toshiro because he himself as zero feats of ice resistance? 🤭

Gray's ice has feats of near AZ temps and have been stated by the editors to be AZ. His father which is ice came from was named the Absolute Zero Demon. Ergo his ice being near to AZ gives credence to Gray's ice being AZ. She has enough resistance to say she can neg the ability while frozen since FT members have show to be able to perform conscious thoughts and magic while frozen.

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Almount

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#26  Edited By Almount

@jdogg said:

@almount: Brandish already confirmed that none of the S12s can do anything to Irene or August.

Literally character far weaker than her have. I'm seriously trying to wrap my head around Kyria having more elemental resistance than Irene who would fodderize Gthe entire DE trio along with Invel and Gray. Like seriously lol.

Those feats are scaled because 1. It's in those feats were done by weaker people in her verse and 2. It makes literally zero sense that Irene would be frozen by the likes of Gray who can't even freeze Ajeel or Kiria. She scales to Gray and Invel's ice bcs neither have feats of harming or freezing individuals on her level with their ice. Are we gonna say Ywhach is gonna get frozen by Rukia or Toshiro because he himself as zero feats of ice resistance? 🤭

Scans for brandish saying that invel can't freeze Irene?

Kyria has feats to suggest she is resistance to ice and Irene doesn't its as simple as that

Its not that gray can beat her or not the point is that irene doesn't have feats to say she could resist being frozen simple being stronger than someone doesn't mean you can resist all of there attacks

Yhwach wouldn't have to worry about rukia being close enough or him not being able to react in time for her to be able to freeze him so that was a weird example

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Almount

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@jdogg said:

Gray's ice has feats of near AZ temps and have been stated by the editors to be AZ. His father which is ice came from was named the Absolute Zero Demon. Ergo his ice being near to AZ gives credence to Gray's ice being AZ. She has enough resistance to say she can neg the ability while frozen since FT members have show to be able to perform conscious thoughts and magic while frozen.

His dad doesn't have any absolute zero feats though and neither does he, being near absolute zero and being absolute zero are not the same thing.

Is Irene one of the characters that can think while being frozen?If not she doesn't suddenly gain the ability to just because people weaker than her can.

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lichvanastrea

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@jdogg said:

@lichvanastrea: Her AZ wears off, it is not permanent effect and for something to be consistently AZ the temp in the area must be lowered to that level constantly. One brief amount of AZ is not an indefinite freeze.

No it doesn't. Where are you getting this from? When Rukia used both her Shikai against As Nodt, he remained frozen solid, even after Rukia began increasing her body temperature. Then when she used his Bankai against him, he remained frozen solid once more and died as a result.

She is massively above Invel to the point it is hopeless for him to challenge. Several character have straight up overpowered Gray's ice freeze as well and those characters are far weaker than Irene. She is also a Dragon which is only hurt by Dragon Slayer magic in the verse. She scales to it. Unless you want to make an Invel and Gray vs Irene thread? You can even equalize the speed or male her slow as a snail to avoid any blitz argument. Ain't no one is gonna say either of those two would be capable of freezing her ergo she scales to their resistance. Like I said it is ludicrous to think either of those two can freeze Irene. Bout as dumb as saying Ywhach would be frozen by Rukia when he has shown zero ice resistance feats either.

How does Irene being above Invel mean she has resistance to absolute zero? You don't scale people to hax and resistances because you're stronger, that's not how powerscaling works. And why are you under the impression that because Gray and Invel can't freeze Irene, Rukia can't do the same? Have any of these two actually reached to absolute zero?

Also, your example makes no sense here, because Yhwach would easily react to Rukia's attacks, especially with the Almighty.

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Morningstar999

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Rukia still oneshots. Orihime's shields can't be bypassed by Irene either.

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JDogg

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@lichvanastrea: So Ywhach gets frozen by Rukia if he doesn't use Almighty? Lmao.

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JDogg

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#31  Edited By JDogg

You wanna argue Irene vs Invel/Gray's ice make the thread.

Also make Ywhach vs Rukia's ice bcs I wanna see the memes lol.

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Saxz

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Why is Irene being scaled to actual ice wizards.? Not that it matters, AZ gg

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lichvanastrea

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JDogg

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#34  Edited By JDogg

@lichvanastrea: You just said Ywhach reacting to her attacks is the reason he beats her which means you believe her AZ works. I asked a simple straight forward question and your answer wasn't a yes so therefore it's a no.

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lichvanastrea

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@jdogg: All I said was that he would easily react to her attacks. Idk how you jump to a conclusion like that.

Instead of relying on this whataboutism logic, try to actually support the claims you made with a logical argument.

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Almount

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#36  Edited By Almount

Until Irene gets feats of resisting being frozen by absolute zero, she won't be able to win.

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deactivated-60f8a948a0372

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Duo easily wins.

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JDogg

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#38  Edited By JDogg

@lichvanastrea:

It's not whataboutism. It clearly pertains to what we are talking about. You answered that Ywhach can beat Rukia due to Almighty and not that he can get out of her flash freeze therefore you are insinuating that Rukia can freeze Ywhach. It's pretty simple logic.

You just don't want to directly answer the question bcs it'll show your hypocritical beliefs lol. If the answer is yes then you look dumb bcs we all know neither are freezing Ywhach and if you say no, you are a hypocrite. You either one or the other.

This time don't skirt the question. Yes or no, can Rukia/Toshiro freeze Ywhach (who has no ice resistance feats if his own)?

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lichvanastrea

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@jdogg said:

@lichvanastrea:

It's not whataboutism.

It is.

It clearly pertains to what we are talking about. You answered that Ywhach can beat Rukia due to Almighty and not that he can get out of her flash freeze therefore you are insinuating that Rukia can freeze Ywhach. It's pretty simple logic.

No it doesn't. You're trying to change the topic here. You made the claim that Irene can just brush off Rukia's absolute zero. I don't believe that, so I asked you prove that she has resistance to absolute zero. You still have yet to make an argument that actually makes some sense.

You just don't want to directly answer the question bcs it'll show your hypocritical beliefs lol.

You didn't ask me a question first of all, you said to me it was dumb that Yhwach would be frozen by Rukia because he has no resistant feats. I then said that example doesn't make sense because he would easily react to her attacks. Now you're going on about whether Yhwach can resist absolute zero or not, because truth be told, you can't back up the claim you originally made.

If the answer is yes then you look dumb bcs we all know neither are freezing Ywhach and if you say no, you are a hypocrite. You either one or the other.

I didn't say either though.

This time don't skirt the question. Yes or no, can Rukia/Toshiro freeze Ywhach (who has no ice resistance feats if his own)?

Idk. Now are you actually going to prove Irene can resist absolute zero?

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Saxz

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@jdogg:

Yhwach is the grand daddy of blut vene, which grants them resistance to temperature change, so yes he scales off of resistance to AZ and no he won't be frozen

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lichvanastrea

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@saxz: Guess that answers his question then.

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JDogg

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@saxz: Yeah, no. By the same logic, Magic protects them from elemental effects as well as shown by Brandish walking through Invel's cold that could freeze Gray, Gray not being stated to not be able freeze Mira, Erza being shown to resist Gray's bloodlusted ice, and Gray and Natsu being frozen by Hakune due to freezing there magical power which bypassed their resistance altogether. We aren't even going to into Dragon Scales that are resistant to any form of direct attack that isn't imbued in Dragon Slayer magic like ice.

@lichvanastrea: It's not whataboutism as it is clearly analogy. The fact you don't want to answer it is proof enough.

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deactivated-604f8f087c7dd

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@saxz said:

Yhwach is the grand daddy of blut vene, which grants them resistance to temperature change, so yes he scales off of resistance to AZ and no he won't be frozen

Hmmm....instant AZ is more than just mere temperature change, though. Instantly going from active particles to inert particles is incredibly insane. I'm not sure he'd resist it with just Blut Vene alone.

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lichvanastrea

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@jdogg said:

@lichvanastrea: It's not whataboutism as it is clearly analogy.

You're using an analogy that makes no sense and are clearly using it to drive away your original claim.

The fact you don't want to answer it is proof enough.

Like I said, I don't know. We've never seen Yhwach actually dealt with absolute zero, so someone can easily make the claim that he can or he can't resist it if they have something to back it up. Just like how Saxz backed it up with the Blut Vene.

Which reminds me, you still have yet to actually make a logical argument that backs up your original claim because so far, all you've said is "Irene is stronger than Invel and Gray so that must mean she has resistance to absolute zero."

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JDogg

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#45  Edited By JDogg

@lichvanastrea: It's analogy that pertains to scaling ice resistance to a clear adversary far above the ice users pay grade in the verse. Not whataboutism.

Yeah, its a yes or no, question. Probably the easiest one to answer in the world. The fact that you aren't saying yes or no gives your exact answer on the stance.

Have someone make the Irene vs Gray/Invel's ice thread. We can have the discussion their.

Sax argument doesn't give him actual feats of ice resistance and the same argument can be apply to MP and Dragon Scales in FT.

Irene being stronger than Gray means she can resist his ice which is AZ by what I presented beforehand. She can also think while frozen like again I presented beforehand since far weaker people than Irene were capable of doing so (which means freezing her is meaningless). Not only that, AZ doesn't even compare to the hax properties of Inevl's and Gray's ice either which again she can resist and shrug off. So again, AZ isn't as hype as you guys make it out to be.

This is if Irene gives Rukia chance to do this in the first place. Irene could straight up think and kill Rukia far before she can use AZ.

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Raziel2014

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Irene takes it,

Rukia while powerful is not at Irene tier, her Bankai is also quite useless unless she is vastly superior to her enemy since she cant move or keep it for longer than several seconds after all her bankai has less than several days of mastery.

Orihime has no attacking power.

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lichvanastrea

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@jdogg said:

@lichvanastrea: It's analogy that pertains to scaling ice resistance to a clear adversary far above the ice users pay grade in the verse. Not whataboutism.

You're literally saying "If Irene scaling above Invel doesn't mean she has absolute zero resistance, then what about Yhwach? He doesn't have resistance to absolute zero then I guess."

Do you not see how silly this whole thing is?

You know what, since you keep harping on about this, let me ask you this then. Let's say, arguably speaking, Ichigo is stronger than Shunsui. Now Shunsui has a Bankai that is nothing but pure hax (you gain sudden wounds and damage on your body, you bleed profusely, you drown in a dimension of water, etc). Are you going to tell me that Ichigo has resistance to his Bankai simply because he is stronger than him?

Yeah, its a yes or no, question. Probably the easiest one to answer in the world. The fact that you aren't saying yes or no gives your exact answer on the stance.

Because it has nothing to do with what I said. You are trying to dodge the questions made to your original claim at this point.

Have someone make the Irene vs Gray/Invel's ice thread. We can have the discussion their.

I don't care for an Irene vs Gray and Invel thread. I'm asking you to prove to me how Irene can resist absolute zero and how Gray and Invel not freezing Irene somehow means Rukia can't freeze Irene.

Sax argument doesn't give him actual feats of ice resistance and the same argument can be apply to MP and Dragon Scales in FT.

You can argue that with him then.

Irene being stronger than Gray means she can resist his ice which is AZ by what I presented beforehand.

Your "proof" of Gray's ice being absolute zero are some "editorial notes" (which I don't even know what this is referring to) and his father's nickname being Absolute Zero.

This is not proof.

She can also think while frozen like again I presented beforehand since far weaker people than Irene were capable of doing so (which means freezing her is meaningless).

Show Irene performing this feat then.

Not only that, AZ doesn't even compare to the hax properties of Inevl's and Gray's ice either which again she can resist and shrug off. So again, AZ isn't as hype as you guys make it out to be.

First off, you would have to prove that Invel and Gray's ice is somehow superior to absolute zero, which you haven't done so.

Then you would have to prove that Irene can resist such cold temperatures, which again, you have not done so either.

This is if Irene gives Rukia chance to do this in the first place. Irene could straight up think and kill Rukia far before she can use AZ.

So has Irene ever killed someone with just a thought then?

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jeepeh

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#48  Edited By jeepeh

*Sigh* Will the Bleach downplay ever end....

Rukia can sense an Ichigo that's charging ahead at full speed, the same Ichigo that recovered the powers he lost fighting Aizen, (further backed up by the statement that Ichigo and Renji's power level is on a level they had never fathomed, logically applying to everyone else that went through the same training) meaning he's leagues, multiple tiers, literally hundreds or thousands of times stronger than anyone who isn't a transcendent like Kenpachi when he busted the meteor or Ulquiorra busting countries.

Orihime can block and re-direct energy from opponents into attacks, and Orihime was blocking planet-busting energy from Juha.

Honestly, what even....

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JDogg

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Renji and Rukia stronger than Kenpachi? Bruh 🤣