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#51 Posted by In-sidiousvader (2536 posts) - - Show Bio

Dooku and co can win, but sheev makes him work for it.

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#52 Posted by darthbane77 (2114 posts) - - Show Bio

@darthbane77: Pls tell me why Dooku isn't getting blitzed?

I didn't say that Dooku doesn't get blitzed, I said this:

Palpatine slaughters. Dooku is the only one that MIGHT not get blitzed right out the gate.

There's a rather significant difference between what you think said and what I actually said.

The reason I said that he might not blitz is due to how he fights. He could have blitzed Maul and Savage, but he didn't, he toyed with them. I've no reason to suspect that Sidious is behaving any differently here, and so, if Sidious isn't going all out, and chooses not to blitz, then he by definition, does not blitz, and thus Dooku does not get blitzed.


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#53 Posted by CuckedCurry (1005 posts) - - Show Bio


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#54 Posted by Erkan12 (8435 posts) - - Show Bio

Dooku can stall it for a while, others dies easily.

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#55 Edited by Lord_Tenebrous (2263 posts) - - Show Bio


"Which isn't relevant whatsoever. As I said previously you can simply replace this account with the movie version which has Drallig duelling KF Vader for several seconds while Vader cuts down Bene and Whie and then use Vader killing Drallig in 'an instant' as the ending when the movie cuts to Yoda and then to Kenobi's face| The first part isn't at all relevant. The start of the sequence can easily be ignored and instead we can use the portrayal in the movie and use the Dark Nest segment for the end of the duel as I said previously.°

So... you're saying we should cut up a small scene, omit contextual portions of the scene, isolate a single concept from a portion of the brief scene, ignore the fact that this happens in a manner directly and 100% contradicted by the movie, and apply that single idea (of Vader instantly winning) to the Drallig vs Vader duel, in order to forgo acknowledging the legitimacy of a completely reconcilable portrayal? No offense, but that's somewhat inane on its face. 

"As for the second segment, there's no contradiction. 5 seconds can easily be classed as an 'instant' given Lightsaber duels nearly always at least last up to 30 seconds and an instant is simply defined as 'a very short time; a moment' (Credit: Google) and this duel certainly is short compared to most other Lightsaber duels. In fact, I often say to someone if I'm leaving to go to get something that I'll be back in 'an instant' despite taking like 10 seconds to get back meaning that 'an instant' can be defined as any period of time so long as it's not particularly lengthy and this duel certainly wasn't."

Hardly. The text says it took "only an instant," which heavily implies a shorter variation, moreover 2/3 definitions of the word all mean a split-second, a specific window of time. And the overwhelming majority of synonyms provided for the definition you are using are immediate, momentary flashes of time. Not to mention that expansions of the word such as instantaneous or instantly all mean right then and there, an exact moment. 7 seconds and 11 blows are not dying in an instant. A brief duel overall? Yes. But certainly not an instant kill. Whie is an example of dying in only an instant. Or Kolar, or Saesee. But not Drallig. 

You're jumping to the most laughably least likely conclusion and even then stretching it while simultaneously isolating a singular concept from a small scene, omitting how and when this concept came to be, all for the purpose of preserving the narrative of Drallig being fodder to Vader (in contradiction of all other valid lore regarding the two).   

"I mean I'll admit it's reconcilable"

Marvelous, glad to hear it. 

"but it has more contradictions than Dark Nest and is overall less plausible."

On the contrary. The VG has zero contradictions aside from apparel, meanwhile DN is replete with discrepancies. 

"I kinda forgot there weren't clones in the movie."

I don't blame you. We saw clones in all the other Temple scenes, easy to confuse.

"I mean I was more talking on him being surrounded by Clone Troopers while fighting Anakin. I can definitely see him escaping from Anakin solo if we go by the VG and assume he's Anakin's equal. Regardless of that fact him running away doesn't make sense given he doesn't attempt to do so later and he's meant to be evenly matched with Anakin so him running away defies all logic. Please enlighten me on why he ran away though." 

It's an unknown. Does not detract from his parity though. In the script, Yoda leapt away from Sidious despite just overwhelming him in a bout of the Force. Dooku fled from TCW Anakin and Obi-Wan on Oba Diah despite just previously clowning them. 

"More lowballing. Great."

Not in the slightest. It's simply pointing out his established limits. Which are, that he struggled against IG-102. It's vastly inconsistent in light of other lore to hold that he is capable of stomping a Battlemaster like Drallig.

"Anyway DS Anakin =/= LS Anakin. The former is more powerful so we cannot ascribe any of LS Anakin's showings to DS Anakin."

LS Anakin is just as skilled a swordsman as DS Anakin, which is why I use this showing. If it was a showing of Force Power, then yes, you'd have a point. But it's not. DS Anakin is the same as LS Anakin in terms of lightsaber skill, just with better physicals.    

"Not really. Given the Dark Nest sequence isn't at all contradicted yet the VG has a very clear discrepancy with the costumes we should logically take the former over the latter."

Costume and appearance are not legitimate causes for de-canonizing an entire scene. Discrepancies in plot, event and storyline? Absolutely. But extremely irrelevent details like hair color of the tone of their clothing is nothing noteworthy. But, if you want to go there...

A) Drallig is described as a "huge Jedi" with "stooped shoulders," when the actual actor is a small, wiry guy. 

B) Anakin is stated to be a blond, when Anakin is really dark-haired. 

C) Bene's entire sex is changed from female to male. 

Easily as much a contradiction (if not more-so) as Drallig having different-coloured robes and different hair.    

"It's plausible sure but Dark Nest is more plausible imo and it's backed up by other sources. While the ROTS Novel is largely contradictory to the film in the way it portrays the scene the fact that both it and Dark Nest depict Drallig dying in the sequence makes me more inclined to take Dark Nest over the ROTS VG"

The game, when reconcilable, contains zero contradictions while DN has many and as a whole is incapable of being reconciled with the film. The VG is not only plausible but completely consistent with other lore. The average Battlemaster is reputed to be better than Jedi Dooku, and the latter as a Sith Lord mused that General Grievous would be incapable of defeating Drallig. Moreover Drallig's status already scales him over lesser lightsaber instructors whose own status is considered to be that of the greatest Jedi warriors. Not to mention his scaling over people like Sora Bulq, Waldan Bridger, Soara Antana and Anoon Bondara. Almost all of whom, I'd wager, are better than Grievous' bodyguards.

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#56 Posted by ArkhamAsylum3 (3920 posts) - - Show Bio

@lord_tenebrous: I'll respond tomorrow if I can muster up the energy. If I don't then I'll most likely respond next weekend.

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#57 Posted by Kilius (1624 posts) - - Show Bio

Pretty much all the versions sans the film are non-canon if you want to get super technical, but in the end all that means is that Drallig is known to have clashed with Vader for 12 seconds while the later was occupied with his student. All that leaves Drallig with is hype and some mild scaling from Shaak Ti. Doesn't mean he's = to Knightfall Vader.


You say clothing is irrelevant. Chee says it is. Chee > you in authority.

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#58 Posted by Lord_Tenebrous (2263 posts) - - Show Bio


Chee casually points it out as as a minor detail. "He doesn't even wear the same costume." That's an unimportant, off-hand reference. Not an actual reason.

And even if it was, garbage logic remains garbage logic even when spoken by official sources. You can't invalidate an entire scene based in the fact that a guy's hair and clothing was different in color than it appeared in the movie. If we are really going to adopt that kind of minute reasoning, you don't know what horrors you've unleashed, what I can do with the most deeply cherished beliefs of this site.

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#59 Posted by Lord_Tenebrous (2263 posts) - - Show Bio


Also I'm pretty sure it was 7 seconds, not 12. And the majority of it occurred off-screen, so we don't know if he was still holding Bene. Moreover, Foul Moudama held off 2003 Grievous with one arm, and for a similar amount of time. 6 seconds, iirc. And we know that he is certainly no rival of Grievous.

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#60 Posted by Lord_Tenebrous (2263 posts) - - Show Bio